Guild Wars 2

Oh boy a millionth thread of the same whiny rng losers complaining that legendaries are too hard to get, mostly because of inflating prices of precursors and lodestones, and the same market manipulators and early exploiters arguing thats its fine because fixing the situation would make theirs worse.

I have a video for you

“Really allowing you to show off your accomplishments and symbolize all the things you’ve been doing”

The lack of actual response as in what “legendary” actually means to anet at this state of the game is leaving us guessing, but..

What if their true intention was not have something that represents how you’ve done going through the actual content of the game – how skilled or dedicated you are – but just how “smart” you are toward the trading post. Or how lucky you get, lets not forget this also alienates a portion of people to think it is a fair deal(to keep the item rare etc.). Legendary is just a name in this game for a really shiny and awesome item that is BiS, makes you stand out, but doesn’t have any story or lore behind it in any way or form anyway, which is a little odd…

…then again they could have just put these types of items in the gem store and called it a day without any huss and fuss about your accomplishments, but I guess that would have been too easy?

Well im of the oppinion that legendaries should not be able to be crafted period. To me a legendary is something that should be found in the open world and not 200 of em either.

so you can have an unfair addvantage over more skilled players?

No thanks..
pre 15 nov i didn t care about legendaries

After 15 nov they should be easily obtainable being the best tier forever….
As said if you want some skins unique to prove your skill or to distinguish yourself, farm fractals for fractals skins or just craft one of those rare exotic few player have

That is why instead of crafting some skins i like i m forced to save money for that awful legendary….

Legendary weapons are not hard to make, they just take a while. I will say one thing though, 800g for a precursor is so far BEYOND stupid, that’s it’s almost embarassing.

LordByron.8369:

so you can have an unfair addvantage over more skilled players?

No thanks..
pre 15 nov i didn t care about legendaries

After 15 nov they should be easily obtainable being the best tier forever….
As said if you want some skins unique to prove your skill or to distinguish yourself, farm fractals for fractals skins or just craft one of those rare exotic few player have

That is why instead of crafting some skins i like i m forced to save money for that awful legendary….

Man, I facepalm everytime I hear someone say “I’m forced to get a Legendary.” No one is forcing you, you’re choosing to.

If you want BiS equipment, use exotics now and get those ascended weapons when they come out. Because I somehow highly doubt the grind necessary to get the future ascended weapons are anywhere near comparable to the Legendary grind.

I don’t get it. You want to grind massively for a Legendary so….you don’t have to grind waaay less when Ascended weaps come out?

Making something like legendaries rely on RNG is a huge mistake indeed.

Much farming (yay DR! and yet again RNG, but of a fairer sort at least) is needed, but ultimately most players sit at the forge trying to get their precursor, while some random player who is not currently pursuing a legendary puts 4 items into the forge, hoping for an exotic they can use, and gets one on his/her first few tries. Buying one at the TP is out of the question for many players with the insane prices going around. This is a very flawed system which does not rely on the player at all, but on luck.

Legendaries should not be luck based, that is just bad.

Ursan.7846:

LordByron.8369:

so you can have an unfair addvantage over more skilled players?

No thanks..
pre 15 nov i didn t care about legendaries

After 15 nov they should be easily obtainable being the best tier forever….
As said if you want some skins unique to prove your skill or to distinguish yourself, farm fractals for fractals skins or just craft one of those rare exotic few player have

That is why instead of crafting some skins i like i m forced to save money for that awful legendary….

Man, I facepalm everytime I hear someone say “I’m forced to get a Legendary.” No one is forcing you, you’re choosing to.

If you want BiS equipment, use exotics now and get those ascended weapons when they come out. Because I somehow highly doubt the grind necessary to get the future ascended weapons are anywhere near comparable to the Legendary grind.

I don’t get it. You want to grind massively for a Legendary so….you don’t have to grind waaay less when Ascended weaps come out?

I facepalm everytime I hear somebody use the “nobody is forcing you…” argument. The arguement is a fallacy which in no way adresses the issues being presented for debate.

havoc.6814:

Ursan.7846:

LordByron.8369:

so you can have an unfair addvantage over more skilled players?

No thanks..
pre 15 nov i didn t care about legendaries

After 15 nov they should be easily obtainable being the best tier forever….
As said if you want some skins unique to prove your skill or to distinguish yourself, farm fractals for fractals skins or just craft one of those rare exotic few player have

That is why instead of crafting some skins i like i m forced to save money for that awful legendary….

Man, I facepalm everytime I hear someone say “I’m forced to get a Legendary.” No one is forcing you, you’re choosing to.

If you want BiS equipment, use exotics now and get those ascended weapons when they come out. Because I somehow highly doubt the grind necessary to get the future ascended weapons are anywhere near comparable to the Legendary grind.

I don’t get it. You want to grind massively for a Legendary so….you don’t have to grind waaay less when Ascended weaps come out?

I facepalm everytime I hear somebody use the “nobody is forcing you…” argument. The arguement is a fallacy which in no way adresses the issues being presented for debate.

And how about the “anet is forcing me to get a legendary” argument? That is valid?

You stopped reading right after that first sentence, didnt you?
point is: right now, legendaries are not better than exotics stat-wise. And when the ascended weapons come out, you can just go for one of those instead, which should be less grind than the legendary one.
You can come up with a lot of arguments against legendaries and their grind, but “they are forcing me to” is not one of them.

I think they failed with end game weapon crafting and grinds. Very little of the gear is earned, the hardest part of acquiring special weapon skins, for most players, is obtaining the gold to purchase the exorbitantly priced (due to intentionally low RNG to keep you grinding the game longer) items that are required in absurd quantities that are unrealistic for anyone to reasonably find without resorting to bot like farming monotony.

What did you get for taking down the Risen Priest of Balthazar? A miniscule amount of karma, nothing that two or three events in Queensdale couldn’t give you. What did you get for flipping items on the TP, and logging out 15 minutes later, every day for the last 30 days? Enough gold to afford most of the most valuable and chase weapons in the game. You don’t get cool stuff from doing huge meta events, you only have access to one armour set and one weapon set for all the challenging and repeatable dungeon content in the game, even map completion usually gives garbage rewards. There are no puzzles to solve, bosses to kill or challenge to overcome for most of the weapons in this game, just farm farm farm that gold and you will get it.

Legendaries don’t tell a story of your epic achievements in Tyria, they don’t represent some kind of journey through the world (at least not the most difficult parts of them), Legendaries represent how much gold you acquired before other people. You don’t earn your stuff by playing, by exploring the world, by overcoming challenges, you earn it by grinding, getting lucky or flipping on the TP. To me, that’s really disappointing and makes for a very boring and unsatisfying end game. They really dropped the ball on legendaries and chase exotic recipes.

havoc.6814:

I facepalm everytime I hear somebody use the “nobody is forcing you…” argument. The arguement is a fallacy which in no way adresses the issues being presented for debate.

Lol. Which logical fallacy is this? Because I stated pretty much a fact.

There is no content gated from you that requires a Legendary. You are as effective using exotics as a Legendary. Gameplay-wise, there is no requirement, for content or for power.

If a user chooses to get a Legendary, that choice is the user’s own. It’s fine to complain about the difficulty in getting a Legendary, but it’s stupid to complain because “Anet forced you to.”

My original point was that getting a Legendary because you want to get BiS and complaining about how hard it is to grind for is stupid, because when Ascended weapons comes out, the grind to get an Ascended weapon will be undoubtedly MUCH easier than getting a Legendary. So stick with Exotic now and get that Ascended when it comes out, but you’re wasting your time if you want to get a Legendary for stats.

I wish that acquiring them felt legendary. I’m all for that scavenger hunt/epic quest chain idea. Something that’s hard, full of lore and fun.

Tosha Daydreamer.9251:

havoc.6814:

Ursan.7846:

LordByron.8369:

so you can have an unfair addvantage over more skilled players?

No thanks..
pre 15 nov i didn t care about legendaries

After 15 nov they should be easily obtainable being the best tier forever….
As said if you want some skins unique to prove your skill or to distinguish yourself, farm fractals for fractals skins or just craft one of those rare exotic few player have

That is why instead of crafting some skins i like i m forced to save money for that awful legendary….

Man, I facepalm everytime I hear someone say “I’m forced to get a Legendary.” No one is forcing you, you’re choosing to.

If you want BiS equipment, use exotics now and get those ascended weapons when they come out. Because I somehow highly doubt the grind necessary to get the future ascended weapons are anywhere near comparable to the Legendary grind.

I don’t get it. You want to grind massively for a Legendary so….you don’t have to grind waaay less when Ascended weaps come out?

I facepalm everytime I hear somebody use the “nobody is forcing you…” argument. The arguement is a fallacy which in no way adresses the issues being presented for debate.

And how about the “anet is forcing me to get a legendary” argument? That is valid?

You stopped reading right after that first sentence, didnt you?
point is: right now, legendaries are not better than exotics stat-wise. And when the ascended weapons come out, you can just go for one of those instead, which should be less grind than the legendary one.
You can come up with a lot of arguments against legendaries and their grind, but “they are forcing me to” is not one of them.

Point is we know for sure legendary will be the BEST in slot, and we already seen that for mistake, so if you plan continuing to play this game a legendary means better equip.

Now don t even start to tell me that you can play in green and enjoy the same because experienced mmorpg players knows how vertical progression works.

Also i already explained how there are better status symbol than a legendary…
Funny how few players try to get them…

Tell me how many “infinite light” did you see.
And how many “the anomaly”.
Or that eye scepter.
Or even fractal staff

Now tell me how many twilight/sunrise do you see around.

So don t pretend its just an exotic….its not.

not only….
They will be upgraded with the lvl cap making better than ascended…..

So if you have a legendary you will have the best weaponj around for some time every time they up the tier…..(because getting new equip requires time)

LordByron.8369:

not only….
They will be upgraded with the lvl cap making better than ascended…..

So if you have a legendary you will have the best weaponj around for some time every time they up the tier…..(because getting new equip requires time)

That’s only assuming they’ll introduce gear between Ascended and Legendary tier. Even if they do introduce more vertical progression, the cost of a Legendary still doesn’t justify an obligation to getting one.

havoc.6814:

I facepalm everytime I hear somebody use the “nobody is forcing you…” argument. The arguement is a fallacy which in no way adresses the issues being presented for debate.

The argument is to show how silly it is to invent fallacious issues to create a non-existing debate.

There is no debate. There are no arguments. Only opinions. Your opinion is just as worthless as mine. No one ever complained Obsidian Armor cost a ton of money to make. You were never required to get it.

Legendaries is supposed to be hard. They can’t be too hard if people are still getting them.

I might start the legendary path if I find a precursor on a drop or I can get the Mystic Toilet to clog and give something back. You don’t need to buy the overpriced crap.

LordByron.8369:

not only….
They will be upgraded with the lvl cap making better than ascended…..

They only said that legendaries would remain the top tier, the highest on the rarity chain. One day, when the level cap is increased to say 90, level 80 legendaries will still be the top tier, at the level 80 range that is. They never said that legendaries would scale with your level.

Legendary = I don’t have a full time job and so I farm a lot.

they said they will be “best in slot” forever…

That means that they will raise in lvl also…

I hope ANET considers bringing true “legendaries”, that are earned through gameplay and not via money or luck solely, in the game via content patch. They can keep the current system for already available legendaries since so many already acquired theirs and so many are through these means of luck and money.

This notion that legendaries show off anything else except luck and money are gone, so could we have our real end game content where we can actually show off our dedication and skill?

lodestones have actually been going down in price since you can now buy with laurels.
Precursors on the other hand…

Why are people constantly analpained over legendaries?

Post 11/15 the only truly legendary aspect of legendaries is that they represent grind insurance for the weapon slot. Get one and you will never have to grind that weapon slot again. I wish they would introduce legendary armor for the same reason. Imagine what it would be like to be able to opt-out of the treadmill…for ever. Sounds legendary to me.

Blix.8021:

Why are people constantly analpained over legendaries?

Maybe you should open your eyes once in a while and read.

Gasoline.2570:

Blix.8021:

Why are people constantly analpained over legendaries?

Maybe you should open your eyes once in a while and read.

I have; all I see is people crying that others have shiny things they don’t

When you use a word that has an associated meaning with it, it creates expectations alongside it.

When someone mentions a Legendary weapon, you think of a weapon that is famous within the culture. Sometimes they’re gotten through divine choosing (Excalibur), through an heroic act (Naegling), or maybe they’re Legendary because they were supposed to have some sort of special power (Caladbolg).

If these weapons were called Mystic, Pimped or something else, then it wouldn’t create the expectation.

Currently, these ‘Legendaries’ have no story behind them, making them just overly expensive Exotics / Ascended / whatever the highest tier is.

And “exotics” are commonplace. Why does this matter? It doesn’t.

Disassembling what legendaries mean…

kitten, Ego, “I am better than YOU” philosophy… Basically its an insane grind and farm for those players that have a poor sense of self confidence to show off and feel superior to others…

Hence why Commanders all have them, funnily enough i feel the same way about people buying Commander..

These things should have been earned through the game like doing something legendary not buying them or being a legendary Grinder/Farmer..

Guildwars 1 had it right… but guildwars 1 had no Trading post..

Sorry, but guild wars 1 had obby armor which required you to grind 2 specific tedious instances. To even get into those instances your region had to have favor of the gods, which required OTHER PEOPLE to win PvP matches. Few people had obby armor prior to the perma shadowform assassin era.

Whiner’s gonna whine I guess.

Blix.8021:

Sorry, but guild wars 1 had obby armor which required you to grind 2 specific tedious instances. To even get into those instances your region had to have favor of the gods, which required OTHER PEOPLE to win PvP matches. Few people had obby armor prior to the perma shadowform assassin era.

Whiner’s gonna whine I guess.

Favour of the Gods was changed back in 2006 (I think), which extended it when someone maxed a title track.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Blix.8021:

Sorry, but guild wars 1 had obby armor which required you to grind 2 specific tedious instances. To even get into those instances your region had to have favor of the gods, which required OTHER PEOPLE to win PvP matches. Few people had obby armor prior to the perma shadowform assassin era.

Whiner’s gonna whine I guess.

Favour of the Gods was changed back in 2006 (I think), which extended it when someone maxed a title track.

I know. Still, in it’s original implementation (when obby armor was actually impressive to have) you had to rely on other people to win PvP so you could get your shiny PvE crap. In GW2 you can grind whenever you want.

People misunderstand this notion of “being forced to obtain” something.

You are correct, no content is “gated” from a player because they don’t have a particular tier of items. The game does not perform gear checks (though the players often do, see Fractals for proof of that).

However, for optimal performance (which is what all players strive for, in one form or another: getting the very most out of their own setup), they are required to own a particular type of item to maximize their efficiency and potential….that is the idea of “forcing” them to own it. It’s not compulsory under penalty of death, more like compulsory under penalty of stagnation.

It is technically correct that you can run the game with blues and greens, and you’ll survive if you’re skilled. Just like you can run high level Fractals without any AR if you’re exceptionally skilled at evading Agony-based attacks. But you’re not the very best you can be, are ya? No, you’re not, and everyone here knows this. Even though you are skilled and strong, you know that you can take your character to new heights above the ones that you already are at. That is the sensation that people are describing: not being “forced”, but feeling obligated to do so, in order to push their character forward and continue the sense of progression that was laid out throughout the game.

So let’s look at the so-called “legendary”: an item which the devs have promised will always remain Best-In-Slot. Who in their right mind would try to argue that having an item in the game which will scale infinitely in power for the entire life of the game (through both new tiers of equipment and level cap raises) doesn’t create an incredibly enticing target that players will obviously want to strive for at one point or another? Yeah, they’re a massive grind, but it’s also the very last grind those players ever have to do, so far as weapons go. Years from now, after multiple patches and expansions, when you’re seeking out your tenth new weapon and it’s still more work to get than the last one was, they’ll still be using their Twilight. And in that scenario, it looks to me like they got the better deal.

Just something to think about.

The real problem is that people assume that simply because people “whine” about the prices of precursors they are whining at the difficulty of getting a legendary in general.

FACT is the precursor is a small part of the legendary, and even if it wasnt near impossible to get the legendary would still be PLENTY difficult to get.

The problem with precursor it is such a high demand item with such a low supply, and it can’t be bought piece by piece, which means the value of the item is increasing at a more rapid rate then what most players can hope to keep up with, which is bad design tbh.

And if anything the precursor is there to serve as a motivator to keep you grinding the rest of the crap for legendary.

If its not there would be no reason to have a WEAPON with STATS in the recipe at all.

As for your theory that legendaries are there to reward players that are good at playing the tp… honestly.. no one is better at playing the tp then the ones who do it so that they make a real life profit out of selling gold etc, I don’t see what purpose Anet would have for rewarding them, considering they directly compete with theyr own currency “gems”.

Is a legendary something everyone should obtain? no.

Is a legendary something everyone should be ABLE to obtain? yes!

I spend upwards of 6+ hours in fractals per day and judging by my current income I don’t have a snowballs chance in hell of ever getting the precursors.

The rest of the materials are a diffrent story, because I can obtain them one by one over a long period of time, without being majorly punished by the ever increasing price of the precursors.

It’s not hard to farm gold. And there’s a soft cap on the price of precursors because after a certain point it becomes more economical to craft rares and throw them in the forge. Everyone who wants one will get one eventually, but because it takes time and patience you see three threads every day on each subforum complaining about one aspect of the legendary process or another.

people have thrown 1500+ rares in the mf and not gotten it, by todays values thats 35sx1500 , for there to be a softcap on the price, there would have to be some sort of reversed DR when throwing weapons in the MF, where at somepoint you reached 100% chance before it reset.

The fact that the only weapon that is worth trying to get in the MF is the dusk, shows that there is a problem with the current way of obtaining them.

If anet are to keep the precursors as they are today I would atleast suggest they split each up into 4 components to be combined in the MF, this way you would be able to buy it piece by piece, instead of putting up all the gold at once.

I said ‘more economical’ not ‘guaranteed’. If you want a guaranteed one, you buy it on the trading post with gold you earned by playing the game. See how that works?

thats my problem, going for it on the TP is not guaranteed, because by the time a casual raises 100g the price of the precursor has gone up by another 100g.

So the casual player will just have to wait until the price hits the point where people decide “i’m not paying x gold, i’ll try my luck in the forge” and then buy it when it reaches that point. Or preferably, when someone decides to deeply undercut that point and make a quick sale. Legendaries were not intended for ‘casuals’ anyway, they were intended to give people with nothing better to do to have something to work toward.

not intended for casuals, really? your logic here seems somewhat flawed, casuals need a goal to keep them busy while waiting for new content as much as those of us who are no-lifers do.

As for your “i’m not paying x gold” theory, I don’t belive you are naive enough to think that will ever happen.

There is no reason a legendary should be unobtainable to the casual over a long period of time with the exception of certain precursors.

I don’t get why so many people seem to have this illogical fear that if precursors were less rare that the legendary would be to easy to get.

quite the opposite, precursors would go down sure, but more people would be motivated to go for the legendary, as such the other materials would increase in price due to demand, however these items are split as such they are still completly possible to obtain, it just takes time and dedication.

which is how it should be.

My ‘theory’ happens every week when someone tries to list dusk for 750+ gold and nobody buys it before the lister is undercut.

someone undercutting him, and people deciding not to buy a item, is not the same thing is it now.. his greed created a oppurtunity for someone else to benefit of it by undercutting, dosnt mean the average price didnt increase as a result of it.

and that is how the price is increasing slowly but surely, not in one big jump.

The price of precursors are controlled by the player-created demand curve and the soft cap that the mystic forge creates. Unlike a manufactured product in the real world, ANYONE can manufacture a precursor. Dusk is priced highly because players value it more so than the other precursors. But no matter how highly valued it becomes, it can still be produced in the mystic forge, and after a certain price it becomes economical to do so.

This is not complicated.

It never becomes economical to do so, but rather it becomes the last remaining options for some players, that is the problem.

the MF is gambling, like all other gambling the odds are in the favour of the house, the house being the money sink the mf is.

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

It never becomes economical to do so, but rather it becomes the last remaining options for some players, that is the problem.

the MF is gambling, like all other gambling the odds are in the favour of the house, the house being the money sink the mf is.

Do you understand the concept of expected values?

Assuming precursor prices goes up and the price for rares stay the same, there will be a point where the expected value returned from the MF (precursor) is higher than the money you put in (rares).

So yes, if say, a precursor goes to 2000G and rares still remained the same price (~30s?), it would be INCREDIBLY economical and GREATLY to your favor to actually play the MF instead of buying a precursor through the TP.

Another pack of randoirds comes to spew their inane social-darwinism.

Anyone who defends the ridiculousness that is the current legendary acquisition system needs to repeat after me:

This is not real life, this is a game.

Games are supposed to be a distraction from reality, which, unless you are a CEO of a bank or outsourcing firm, a lobbyist, or hold a national elected office to receive their graft, is VERY harsh for you.

Ursan, I can’t speak for anyone else, but I see no expected values in the mf, for there to be we would need to be able to find the average amount of rares required to get a dusk, and I have yet to see such calculations for obvious reasons.

Every single time you put 4 rares into that mf the chance of getting precursors is exactly the same.

It is very much like playing the lottery in rl, a very small minority EVER wins.

while I agree at some point that gambling is your only option, I do not belive it is a viable option, and most definatly not a favourable one.

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

Ursan, I can’t speak for anyone else, but I see no expected values in the mf, for there to be we would need to be able to find the average amount of rares required to get a dusk, and I have yet to see such calculations for obvious reasons.

Every single time you put 4 rares into that mf the chance of getting precursors is exactly the same.

It is very much like playing the lottery in rl, a very small minority EVER wins.

while I agree at some point that gambling is your only option, I do not belive it is a viable option, and most definatly not a favourable one.

I’m not defending this “slot machine” system in any way whatsoever, but if you take courses in probability you learn that your probability of losing multiple independent trials in a row diminishes as you add new trials, eventually diminishing to an effective zero. The number of trials at which this becomes infinitesimal places an upper bound on the limit of a precursor, but only if you assume a rational market that is NOT risk-averse. (that assumption is simply faulty)

Blix.8021:

The price of precursors are controlled by the player-created demand curve and the soft cap that the mystic forge creates. Unlike a manufactured product in the real world, ANYONE can manufacture a precursor. Dusk is priced highly because players value it more so than the other precursors. But no matter how highly valued it becomes, it can still be produced in the mystic forge, and after a certain price it becomes economical to do so.

This is not complicated.

I’m sorry but people who have spent 300-1000g in hopes of getting one and not receiving, would love to disagree. THE SUPPLY IS CONTROLLED BY ARENANET AND ARENANET ONLY. They’re the one’s who make the difference, the situation is extremely bad because they have not interfered. Which brings to my point, they aren’t a show off anything but wealth and luck now. What an endgame I tell you.

I was at first fine with only Exotics, still am, but by simply playing the game’s content, helping guildies getting AC runs, etc etc etc, I ended up obtaining the Karma required for all the obsidian shards i needed, enough tokens for 3 AC weapons and a Gift, JP daily in WvW gave me enough tokens for Gift of Battle, and completing all area;s gives Gift of Exploration, salvaging any rare’s that are worth less thekittenve ecto’s. etc etc.

The thing is, apart from the pre-cursor, you get all the mats you need from simply playing the game, so instead of selling every t6 mat you get, how about just banking it, over time you will have 250 of each. 2.8/4 of your legendary you will get by simply playing the game, even as a casual. The lodestones are a little trickier and the pre-cursors are just stupid in TP price.

As the stats of legendaries will never be higher then the best obtainable other weapons, I really do not see why people get so upset, yes, when Ascended weaponry will be introduced the legendary owners will get an instant upgrade, however everyone else will need prolly about 2-3 weeks to farm for Ascended weapon, with the same stats as a legendary.

just my 2 cents

plasmacutter.2709:

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

Ursan, I can’t speak for anyone else, but I see no expected values in the mf, for there to be we would need to be able to find the average amount of rares required to get a dusk, and I have yet to see such calculations for obvious reasons.

Every single time you put 4 rares into that mf the chance of getting precursors is exactly the same.

It is very much like playing the lottery in rl, a very small minority EVER wins.

while I agree at some point that gambling is your only option, I do not belive it is a viable option, and most definatly not a favourable one.

I’m not defending this “slot machine” system in any way whatsoever, but if you take courses in probability you learn that your probability of losing multiple independent trials in a row diminishes as you add new trials, eventually diminishing to an effective zero. The number of trials at which this becomes infinitesimal places an upper bound on the limit of a precursor, but only if you assume a rational market that is NOT risk-averse. (that assumption is simply faulty)

Is that why financial advisor’s advise you to to buy more lottery tickets to increase your chance of increasing your wealth? Are you serious? Your odds of winning are the same with each trial. Nil. The lottery system is a problem in every game it’s been used in. In contemporary F2P games it’s near universal and a barrier to conventional player reward. It needs to be removed from games and if that means subscriptions, so be it. Players expect and want games to be rewarding. When they are not there is dissatisfaction and a vocal dissatisfaction.