Guild Wars 2

Why does Anet keep discouraging us from playing alternate characters between fractals, ascended gear, WvW ranks, and even Bloodstone Shards?

I would love to be able to play fractals on one of my alts just for fun but that would be a huge waste of time…

Why would replaying fractals on an alt be a waste of time? The journey is half the fun, as far as I’m concerned.

My main has been at Fractals 50 for a long time now. She only runs 38 and 48 these days. After I leveled up my main-alt a couple of months ago, I’m running her through Fractals again. She’s currently at Fractals 20, and I intend to continue leveling her. She already has all Ascended gear other than the 2 Earrings – which she’ll eventually get, but her current 35 AR should be enough to get her safely to 50.

I don’t mind running through the low level Fractals again. They’re a refreshing change from 38 and 48.

Wait, what? What is preventing you from playing fractals on an alt? You start at level 1, but you can play at any fractal level.

Ahhhh….Guild Coms, laurels and Factal Relics are all account bound so your argument for ascended gear holds no water. I have never played a game where WvW/PvP ranks of any sort where account bound.

And as someone said, running through content again should be half the fun.

Of course the why remains unknown. There may be a profit motive and there’s certainly nothing wrong with wanting to make a profit. Sadly, however, the alt-unfriendly environment begins to color the whole game for an altoholic. The situation with alts is serious enough to warrant Anet’s attention. It would be nice to see some love for this bit of the player base.

The why, I guess is up to anet… but personally the day I consider something I do just for fun a huge waste of time is the day I stop wasting my time playing video games…

I have 5 characters (and regularly make and delete a 6th to play around with) and I don’t have a problem with it at all. I designated the one I play most as my main and she’s first priority for gear and also the one I’m most likely to do high level content on first.

But if anything getting gear for alts is a good thing for me. I’m in no hurry to do it because you can do virtually all the content without max stat gear (high level Fractals being the exception) and it gives me something to do with the various points/currencies I get from doing everything 5 times.

Fractals 48 is already believed to be a huge waste of time on it’s own. The main intensive are the fractal weapons. I would like to continue my journey for these fractal weapons on a different character but as I say, you can’t…

@Amun Ra, PvP ranks are already account bound and it would only make sense if they did the same for WvW ranks.

The only person discouraging alt-play for you is yourself. At worst it might be interesting to see how another class has to get through things.

You’re confusing the issue with the “why can’t I min/max all my character slots at the same time?” issue. They are not the same.

Alts are not just suits of clothing to be changed at will. Each is its own entity and while a lot of things can be shared among them, not everything can. It’s not a problem – I have 11 slots and every one is at a different place in the game, from 2 max level toons, one closing in on level 80, and others that have barely started.

If starting over with a fresh toon is a problem for you – don’t. Min/max players are best served by concentrating on a single character, perhaps two if you want to try different roles or mix it up a little. Alt-crazy types like myself generally don’t care about getting “best in slot” items for five, ten or more characters. That’s just setting yourself up for frustration, and complaining about it is a “you” problem, not an Anet problem.

Very few players actually want this kind of thing, so constantly complaining about it isn’t going to suddenly make them change the game around your preferences.

I feel quite the opposite. I feel encouraged to level alts in this game and now have 5 80’s.

Sounds like you don’t want alts, you just want one main that can re-specialize into each class while keeping max tier everything.

Amun Ra.6435:

Ahhhh….Guild Coms, laurels and Factal Relics are all account bound so your argument for ascended gear holds no water. I have never played a game where WvW/PvP ranks of any sort where account bound.

And as someone said, running through content again should be half the fun.

In GW1, the PvP ranks and titles were all account bound.

OP, you haven’t stated how Anet has discouraged you from playing alts? I have 8 different professions. Most are at level 80.
Some people create one character at a time, others play a different one daily. Some have characters that “specialize” (ie warrior runs dungeons, thief is Wvw etc), there are so many ways for you to play.

I agree with Lynne about specializing characters.

I currently have a Ranger that is my ‘main’ and she’s at 35 AR and sitting at fractal 40 (I’ve already acquired quite a few fractal skins) and I have a Warrior that I solely WvW with and he’s rank 14 about to be 15 and is in all ascended gear as well. (well, i want to get him the 100% completion star as I feel nakey without it)

I in no way feel discouraged by Anet to play between my 2 characters, but that’s just me.

As a matter of fact, the sole reason I made my Warrior for WvW was to use all those silly boosters I get from black lion chests, since I personally had 0 incentive to use them in PvE land. They work wonders in WvW, imo, especially the speed boost.

My advice is to specialize if you think it’d suit you, or just nut up and level that alt through fractals!

OP, I understand how you feel, you are not alone in these thoughts. However, you will not find much support on the forums. Everyone thinks you should want what they want or you are doing it wrong.

The game had many alt- unfriendly features. Most of them were introduced to satisfy the needs of the gear grinders. If there wasn’t a time gate in ascended items we’d probably on ascended++ gear by now.

However those of us who enjoy multiple characters and/or builds bear more of the burden.

Chiming in with the others: alts are not an interchangeable skin to use over the first character you level up. There’s absolutely nothing in this game that discourages using alternate characters.

If you find that getting top-stat equipment on your alternate characters is too tedious then simply don’t do it. Top-stat equipment in every MMORPG I’ve ever played has never been handed to a player simply because one of their characters already obtained it.

People who play multiple characters carry no larger a burden than those that don’t, they simply choose to carry it multiple times.

It’s honestly a shame that the reply with the big green A isn’t tolunart.2095’s post. Any perceived “discouraging” is coming from your own mindset that your second (or third, or fourth) character shouldn’t need to work as hard as your first to get the same things.

I have alts for different things as well. My sylvari mesmer is my “dungeon and fractal alt”. My sylvari ranger is my open world alt. My engineer is my PvP/WvW alt.

I have a LOT of characters and because there is no in game need to have BIS gear on any of them I can play any of them without problem. People who insist of focusing on BIS gear (because that’s what they did in the last game) are simply making the game worse for themselves.

I’m surprised no one understand why OP is complaining. He want to play a different class, for example a thief instead of warrior and do fractal 48.

But he felt discouraged since it take so much effort to get the gear and agony to do 48, not to mention even if he get it, he wont’ have a chance to loot fractal skin. Unless he start leveling from 1-48 again.

This type of thing come up from antoher game I played too. But there’s also the counter argument if achievement is account bound, people won’t be “encouraged” to play their alt. As in some people probably want to level another character from fotm1 to fotm48 but it become pointless if personal level is account bound.

laokoko.7403:

I’m surprised no one understand why OP is complaining. He want to play a different class, for example a thief instead of warrior and do fractal 48.

But he felt discouraged since it take so much effort to get the gear and agony to do 48, not to mention even if he get it, he wont’ have a chance to loot fractal skin. Unless he start leveling from 1-48 again.

This type of thing come up from antoher game I played too. But there’s also the counter argument if achievement is account bound, people won’t be “encouraged” to play their alt. As in some people probably want to level another character from fotm1 to fotm48 but it become pointless if personal level is account bound.

I understand what the OP is complaining about. That doesn’t mean I have to agree with the conclusions the OP reached. Fractal level is one area of the game. If all you do is run fractals and that’s all you care about, then sure, you’re going to be kitten ed that you can’t run an alt on those higher level fractals.

But if you do more of the game, you dont’ have to worry about running a specific profession in the fractals other than the one you’re running. Now if you want to play a profession in the fractals bad enough, you’ll bite the bullet and level him.

The problem is everyone wants everything NOW. Why can’t you slowly level a character, over a long period of time, doing a second fractal run occasionally until he gets there.

Those who want everything today will find most MMOs a strain on them. It’s only a chore if you make it a chore.

Vayne.8563:

The problem is everyone wants everything NOW. Why can’t you slowly level a character, over a long period of time, doing a second fractal run occasionally until he gets there.

It’s kind of like the unique 18 personal quest line people talk about. Actually many of those quest line past lvl50 overlap. People dont’ want to do the samething over and over again. It get boring.

If people already done it once, they probably don’t want to do it all over again. It’s the grind. Grind 48 level of fractal till you can play the challenging part or the part which offer reward.

Simply put, it’s very repetitive. And repetitive things do get boring. Kind of like the I swung a sword anology GW2 lead developer make.

I do have mix fealing on this. Making progress character bound instead of account bound do mean “I have to play my alt to progress”. It does offer more replayability.

Vayne.8563:

Those who want everything today will find most MMOs a strain on them. It’s only a chore if you make it a chore.

I think many of those chore come from MMORPG today being too repetitive.

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

The problem is everyone wants everything NOW. Why can’t you slowly level a character, over a long period of time, doing a second fractal run occasionally until he gets there.

It’s kind of like the unique 18 personal quest line people talk about. Actually many of those quest line past lvl50 overlap. People dont’ want to do the samething over and over again. It get boring.

If people already done it once, they probably don’t want to do it all over again. It’s the grind. Grind 48 level of fractal till you can play the challenging part or the part which offer reward.

Simply put, it’s very repetitive. And repetitive things do get boring. Kind of like the I swung a sword anology GW2 lead developer make.

I do have mix fealing on this. Making progress character bound instead of account bound do mean “I have to play my alt to progress”. It does offer more replayability.

But they are all different, because later on, the stuff that comes out is different depending on who you are. For example, to most people Trahearne is this guy who just shows up, and takes over. But if you play a Sylvari you see him from the beginning. Dr. Gorr’s Asuran invention is really responsible for taking down Zhaitan in the end, but if you don’t play an Asura you don’t get that.

There are subtle differences, not only depending on what you play but what choices you make.

For example at the end of the Sylvari scene which everyone goes through where you get a preview of Orr from the Pale tree, there are three diffrerent options at the end of that. Depending on which option you choose, you get 3 different storylines later in the game. Some people meet and get to interact with Apatia, some with the asuran bomb maker (Thom I think his name is) and some with a saboteur. That means you need at least 3 characters to play all the missions.

And many of the later stories (with some exceptions) have two options.

So yeah, for at least three characters, you should be able to get enough variety. Now, that doesn’t include all the different beginnings.

Even just making your character act differently or make different choices during the game gives you different dialogue options to choose later in the game. Not too many of them, but they’re definitely there. For example, I can threaten some people on my bullying character, but I have completely different dialogue options on my charismatic character.

I’m not even sure most people realize there are more options than just charming, dignified and aggressive (or whatever it’s called). For example you can end up being a rogue,w hich is somewhere between charming and aggressive1.

Anyway, until you’ve done all five races, you really can’t appreciate the contribute of each race to the defeat of Zhaitan. You really only get part of the story.

To condesnse my post, all I said is many of the personal story do overlap. I’m pretty sure you agree with that. If you don’t agree, you can read the remaining of my post. If you do, don’t read the rest.

Read your own post Vayne, you said all of them are different and say “For example at the end of the Sylvari scene which everyone goes through”. That means you do need to repeat “that specific part” right?

I said many of them are the same. And 3 options don’t help when I have 8 character. There sure arn’t 18 options. And the main questline take for example the lvl50 quest is the same for everyone. So is the ending.

laokoko.7403:

To condesnse my post, all I said is many of the personal story do overlap. I’m pretty sure you agree with that. If you don’t agree, you can read the remaining of my post. If you do, don’t read the rest.

Read your own post Vayne, you said all of them are different and say “For example at the end of the Sylvari scene which everyone goes through”. That means you do need to repeat “that specific part” right?

I said many of them are the same. And 3 options don’t help when I have 8 character. There sure arn’t 18 options. And the main questline take for example the lvl50 quest is the same for everyone. So is the ending.

There are 15 options in the early game. And yes, the end game has some repetition. As opposed to say which other game? End game in WoW has no repetition? End game in Guild Wars 1 has no repetition?

When you finish the content in any MMORPG, and I’ve played a bunch, you repeat stuff. This isn’t news. At least there are a few different paths and some differences, is my point.

Which MMO have you played that gives you more variety of things that change at end game is really the question.

Even great games like Dragon Age all lead you to the same choices at the end, and that’s all they are is an RPG, not an MMO.

Vayne.8563:

laokoko.7403:

To condesnse my post, all I said is many of the personal story do overlap. I’m pretty sure you agree with that. If you don’t agree, you can read the remaining of my post. If you do, don’t read the rest.

Read your own post Vayne, you said all of them are different and say “For example at the end of the Sylvari scene which everyone goes through”. That means you do need to repeat “that specific part” right?

I said many of them are the same. And 3 options don’t help when I have 8 character. There sure arn’t 18 options. And the main questline take for example the lvl50 quest is the same for everyone. So is the ending.

There are 15 options in the early game. And yes, the end game has some repetition. As opposed to say which other game? End game in WoW has no repetition? End game in Guild Wars 1 has no repetition?

When you finish the content in any MMORPG, and I’ve played a bunch, you repeat stuff. This isn’t news. At least there are a few different paths and some differences, is my point.

Which MMO have you played that gives you more variety of things that change at end game is really the question.

Even great games like Dragon Age all lead you to the same choices at the end, and that’s all they are is an RPG, not an MMO.

All I said is the personal story “do” have overlap. That’s all I said. Can you chill please?

I don’t want to keep talking about other mmo. But you keep talking about it. There are mmorpg that is so hard that I never need to do repetitive content, because I can never get pass it. And you probably going to start the why mmorpg developer need to creat content for 1% of the hardcore players again.

Stop running in circle. I didn’t even say anything besides the personal story “do have overlap”.

I didn’t say anything, and I mean anything. All I said is the personal story do have overlap.

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

laokoko.7403:

To condesnse my post, all I said is many of the personal story do overlap. I’m pretty sure you agree with that. If you don’t agree, you can read the remaining of my post. If you do, don’t read the rest.

Read your own post Vayne, you said all of them are different and say “For example at the end of the Sylvari scene which everyone goes through”. That means you do need to repeat “that specific part” right?

I said many of them are the same. And 3 options don’t help when I have 8 character. There sure arn’t 18 options. And the main questline take for example the lvl50 quest is the same for everyone. So is the ending.

There are 15 options in the early game. And yes, the end game has some repetition. As opposed to say which other game? End game in WoW has no repetition? End game in Guild Wars 1 has no repetition?

When you finish the content in any MMORPG, and I’ve played a bunch, you repeat stuff. This isn’t news. At least there are a few different paths and some differences, is my point.

Which MMO have you played that gives you more variety of things that change at end game is really the question.

Even great games like Dragon Age all lead you to the same choices at the end, and that’s all they are is an RPG, not an MMO.

All I said is the personal story “do” have overlap. That’s all I said. Can you chill please?

I don’t want to keep talking about other mmo. But you keep talking about it. There are mmorpg that is so hard that I never need to do repetitive content, because I can never get pass it. And you probably going to start the why mmorpg developer need to creat content for 1% of the hardcore players again.

Stop running in circle. I didn’t even say anything besides the personal story “do have overlap”.

I didn’t say anything, and I mean anything. All I said is the personal story do have overlap.

Yes, but the topic of this thread is discouraging people to play multiple characters. What you said relates to what the thread is about. The implication is that there is overlap and that discourages people from playing alts. I’m telling the other side of the story. That there are differences. Not as many as you would like, perhaps, not as many as would be ideal, but still more than any competitor that I know of. And that is my point.

If this thread had not been about being discouraged to play alts, I’d not have said anything.

You heard it, OP. Just be inferior on alts and enjoy it, even if you don’t enjoy it. (really guys? blaming the problem on him? Lol…) this game actually requires you to have a main with fractals and WvW ranks, etc.

Mathias.9657:

You heard it, OP. Just be inferior on alts and enjoy it, even if you don’t enjoy it. (really guys? blaming the problem on him? Lol…) this game actually requires you to have a main with fractals and WvW ranks, etc.

Right, but it doesn’t have to be the same main. And inferior is an interesting word. What’s superior, having fun or killing stuff faster?

Because my goal is to enjoy myself, I will play what I want, how I want. My warrior kills stuff faster than my other characters, but I enjoy my other characters more. So my warrior is the inferior experience.

It all comes down to how you filter your perceptions.

Vayne.8563:

Mathias.9657:

You heard it, OP. Just be inferior on alts and enjoy it, even if you don’t enjoy it. (really guys? blaming the problem on him? Lol…) this game actually requires you to have a main with fractals and WvW ranks, etc.

Right, but it doesn’t have to be the same main. And inferior is an interesting word. What’s superior, having fun or killing stuff faster?

Because my goal is to enjoy myself, I will play what I want, how I want. My warrior kills stuff faster than my other characters, but I enjoy my other characters more. So my warrior is the inferior experience.

It all comes down to how you filter your perceptions.

Perception has nothing to do with being statistically inferior and not being able to advance on an alt if I made one in fractals as opposed to my main with 35AR.

Stop trying to fancy talk me, I know the facts. ANet time gates everything in the game and blocks most of the fun that is making alts. (more time gating) I would have to go through hell to get 2 characters full ascended. Screw that…

Mathias.9657:

Perception has nothing to do with being statistically inferior and not being able to advance on an alt if I made one in fractals as opposed to my main with 35AR.

Yet I have 6 characters with 20-40 AR, while only one of them is at level 48 Fotm, 2 at their early 20s and he rest of them are at fotm 0 and yet they have 20 AR. Yet I still have mats to continue gearing them for even higher AR.

Which means I can easily play with any of my characters in Fotm without any issues, it only depends on which character I’m interested in leveling at that moment. Then I remember how I got my max level gear in other mmos… raiding, dungeon running in epic dungeons, character bound gear, full gear treadmill. THAT was alt-unfriendly, Guild Wars 2 is not.

Vayne.8563:

Yes, but the topic of this thread is discouraging people to play multiple characters. What you said relates to what the thread is about. The implication is that there is overlap and that discourages people from playing alts. I’m telling the other side of the story. That there are differences. Not as many as you would like, perhaps, not as many as would be ideal, but still more than any competitor that I know of. And that is my point.

If this thread had not been about being discouraged to play alts, I’d not have said anything.

Well, back to the main topic. If we don’t need to do those repatitive content over again on an alt to “play the part which people want to play”, that is a good thing right?

The truth is all those AA point, or paragon point, it can go either way. Some game choose to make it account wide, some game choose to make it character specific.

There are pro and cons. Pro is people don’t need to do repetitive task and can switch to play any character they want at any time. The con is it offer less replayability.

So both case do encourage and discourage people to play alt depend how you look at it.

Even this game make spvp rank account wide. I suppose making wvw rank account wide do make it weird. Because you might see high rank people running around in pvp and you wonder who that person is.

There is really no right or wrong answer.

Mathias.9657:

Vayne.8563:

Mathias.9657:

You heard it, OP. Just be inferior on alts and enjoy it, even if you don’t enjoy it. (really guys? blaming the problem on him? Lol…) this game actually requires you to have a main with fractals and WvW ranks, etc.

Right, but it doesn’t have to be the same main. And inferior is an interesting word. What’s superior, having fun or killing stuff faster?

Because my goal is to enjoy myself, I will play what I want, how I want. My warrior kills stuff faster than my other characters, but I enjoy my other characters more. So my warrior is the inferior experience.

It all comes down to how you filter your perceptions.

Perception has nothing to do with being statistically inferior and not being able to advance on an alt if I made one in fractals as opposed to my main with 35AR.

Stop trying to fancy talk me, I know the facts. ANet time gates everything in the game and blocks most of the fun that is making alts. (more time gating) I would have to go through hell to get 2 characters full ascended. Screw that…

I’m not fancy talking you at all. If I’m PVeing, it doesn’t MATTER how statistically inferior I am. You ever play golf? There’s something called a handicap. The better you are, the more of a handicap you get. Your rewarded for being good by being given a statistical nerf.

So if you’re really the kind of guy who likes challenging content, you’d be in favor of challenging yourself, thus providing the superior experience.

If you think doing things the easy boring way is more fun, and superior go right ahead. I think beating the game on my terms is superior.

The fact is, statistically superior would only matter to me if content was unavailable to me because of that statistical superiority.

maddoctor.2738:

Mathias.9657:

Perception has nothing to do with being statistically inferior and not being able to advance on an alt if I made one in fractals as opposed to my main with 35AR.

Yet I have 6 characters with 20-40 AR, while only one of them is at level 48 Fotm, 2 at their early 20s and he rest of them are at fotm 0 and yet they have 20 AR. Yet I still have mats to continue gearing them for even higher AR.

Which means I can easily play with any of my characters in Fotm without any issues, it only depends on which character I’m interested in leveling at that moment. Then I remember how I got my max level gear in other mmos… raiding, dungeon running in epic dungeons, character bound gear, full gear treadmill. THAT was alt-unfriendly, Guild Wars 2 is not.

Cool, you must play a lot. I made an alt mage in Cata (1-85), got full epic raid geared ready to go in 3 days. About a billion times faster than getting ascended+leveling in GW2, so don’t tell me other MMOs were alt unfriendly. Some (a lot) of people argue WoW is too casual. GW2 casual? Nah, not even close. Maybe in some aspects but certainly not when it comes down to legendary or alts.

Vayne.8563:

Mathias.9657:

Vayne.8563:

Mathias.9657:

You heard it, OP. Just be inferior on alts and enjoy it, even if you don’t enjoy it. (really guys? blaming the problem on him? Lol…) this game actually requires you to have a main with fractals and WvW ranks, etc.

Right, but it doesn’t have to be the same main. And inferior is an interesting word. What’s superior, having fun or killing stuff faster?

Because my goal is to enjoy myself, I will play what I want, how I want. My warrior kills stuff faster than my other characters, but I enjoy my other characters more. So my warrior is the inferior experience.

It all comes down to how you filter your perceptions.

Perception has nothing to do with being statistically inferior and not being able to advance on an alt if I made one in fractals as opposed to my main with 35AR.

Stop trying to fancy talk me, I know the facts. ANet time gates everything in the game and blocks most of the fun that is making alts. (more time gating) I would have to go through hell to get 2 characters full ascended. Screw that…

I’m not fancy talking you at all. If I’m PVeing, it doesn’t MATTER how statistically inferior I am. You ever play golf? There’s something called a handicap. The better you are, the more of a handicap you get. Your rewarded for being good by being given a statistical nerf.

So if you’re really the kind of guy who likes challenging content, you’d be in favor of challenging yourself, thus providing the superior experience.

If you think doing things the easy boring way is more fun, and superior go right ahead. I think beating the game on my terms is superior.

The fact is, statistically superior would only matter to me if content was unavailable to me because of that statistical superiority.

You do realize you will get smashed in high level fractals without AR right? Try doing them on an alt. Grind doesn’t = challenging to me either..

Archmortal.1027:

Chiming in with the others: alts are not an interchangeable skin to use over the first character you level up. There’s absolutely nothing in this game that discourages using alternate characters.

If you find that getting top-stat equipment on your alternate characters is too tedious then simply don’t do it. Top-stat equipment in every MMORPG I’ve ever played has never been handed to a player simply because one of their characters already obtained it.

People who play multiple characters carry no larger a burden than those that don’t, they simply choose to carry it multiple times.

It’s honestly a shame that the reply with the big green A isn’t tolunart.2095’s post. Any perceived “discouraging” is coming from your own mindset that your second (or third, or fourth) character shouldn’t need to work as hard as your first to get the same things.

42 alts here.. ten of them level 80, working on number 11. Leveling two of those 80’s through fractals at the moment. Have laurel gear on 3, all 80’s have exotics.

I agree with everything you’ve posted, and want to add a note to your last statement:

It is actually easier in many ways to get 2nd, 3rd, 4th characters leveled and geared (dungeons and otherwise) because the learning curve (the actual “hard” part) has already occurred. At that point, refinement of the process starts to kick in and some parts of the process become faster, more straightforward.

Going through Explorables and Fractals, the strategies /layout of the dungeons and the fights are already known. There is a smaller learning curve with specific approach/tactics based on the different profession being wielded in the moment. That can be fun. Same with WvW. The basic process remains constant, the tweak, is again in tactics for the specific profession.

Yes, a sense of “grind” can occur in the actual physical hours spent “re”-leveling. It’s a different profession, a different character. It’s appropriate because the gameplay is different. Yes, the dailies, the limits on laurels for example, are restrictive. However, doing multiple dailies a day for each and every alt would also be incredibly restrictive in terms of hours required for that specific goal, negatively impacting time for other gameplay.

This is no different than any other MMO, even those that require re-gearing to do raids when a different class is played.

I don’t see anything in GW2 that discourages alts. The shared fractal relics, shared dungeon tokens, badges, etcetera actually makes it easier in many ways. As a whole, the game is less prohibitive because it does not demand gear-centric playing overall.

- Min/maxing alt lover

PS: I have had 4 accounts worth of alts (e.g. at least 40 alts with 10-11 at endgame min/maxed for ultimate usage) in almost every MMO I have played over the last 13+ years (including DAoC and WoW .. and a couple of WoW’s clones.)

last edit for clarity: “leveled and geared”

Mathias.9657:

maddoctor.2738:

Mathias.9657:

Perception has nothing to do with being statistically inferior and not being able to advance on an alt if I made one in fractals as opposed to my main with 35AR.

Yet I have 6 characters with 20-40 AR, while only one of them is at level 48 Fotm, 2 at their early 20s and he rest of them are at fotm 0 and yet they have 20 AR. Yet I still have mats to continue gearing them for even higher AR.

Which means I can easily play with any of my characters in Fotm without any issues, it only depends on which character I’m interested in leveling at that moment. Then I remember how I got my max level gear in other mmos… raiding, dungeon running in epic dungeons, character bound gear, full gear treadmill. THAT was alt-unfriendly, Guild Wars 2 is not.

Cool, you must play a lot. I made an alt mage in Cata (1-85), got full epic raid geared ready to go in 3 days. About a billion times faster than getting ascended+leveling in GW2, so don’t tell me other MMOs were alt unfriendly. Some (a lot) of people argue WoW is too casual. GW2 casual? Nah, not even close. Maybe in some aspects but certainly not when it comes down to legendary or alts.

Really? You got the MAX tier raid gear, max as in there is nothing else to do in the game at all and only option is to get an alt, in just 3 days?

Leveling in GW2 can take only a few hours. Gearing your alt can take a few seconds, as I said I have 3 characters that never even touched fotm and they have lots of AR already.

Mathias.9657:

maddoctor.2738:

Mathias.9657:

Perception has nothing to do with being statistically inferior and not being able to advance on an alt if I made one in fractals as opposed to my main with 35AR.

Yet I have 6 characters with 20-40 AR, while only one of them is at level 48 Fotm, 2 at their early 20s and he rest of them are at fotm 0 and yet they have 20 AR. Yet I still have mats to continue gearing them for even higher AR.

Which means I can easily play with any of my characters in Fotm without any issues, it only depends on which character I’m interested in leveling at that moment. Then I remember how I got my max level gear in other mmos… raiding, dungeon running in epic dungeons, character bound gear, full gear treadmill. THAT was alt-unfriendly, Guild Wars 2 is not.

Cool, you must play a lot. I made an alt mage in Cata (1-85), got full epic raid geared ready to go in 3 days. About a billion times faster than getting ascended+leveling in GW2, so don’t tell me other MMOs were alt unfriendly. Some (a lot) of people argue WoW is too casual. GW2 casual? Nah, not even close. Maybe in some aspects but certainly not when it comes down to legendary or alts.

Vayne.8563:

Mathias.9657:

Vayne.8563:

Mathias.9657:

You heard it, OP. Just be inferior on alts and enjoy it, even if you don’t enjoy it. (really guys? blaming the problem on him? Lol…) this game actually requires you to have a main with fractals and WvW ranks, etc.

Right, but it doesn’t have to be the same main. And inferior is an interesting word. What’s superior, having fun or killing stuff faster?

Because my goal is to enjoy myself, I will play what I want, how I want. My warrior kills stuff faster than my other characters, but I enjoy my other characters more. So my warrior is the inferior experience.

It all comes down to how you filter your perceptions.

Perception has nothing to do with being statistically inferior and not being able to advance on an alt if I made one in fractals as opposed to my main with 35AR.

Stop trying to fancy talk me, I know the facts. ANet time gates everything in the game and blocks most of the fun that is making alts. (more time gating) I would have to go through hell to get 2 characters full ascended. Screw that…

I’m not fancy talking you at all. If I’m PVeing, it doesn’t MATTER how statistically inferior I am. You ever play golf? There’s something called a handicap. The better you are, the more of a handicap you get. Your rewarded for being good by being given a statistical nerf.

So if you’re really the kind of guy who likes challenging content, you’d be in favor of challenging yourself, thus providing the superior experience.

If you think doing things the easy boring way is more fun, and superior go right ahead. I think beating the game on my terms is superior.

The fact is, statistically superior would only matter to me if content was unavailable to me because of that statistical superiority.

You do realize you will get smashed in high level fractals without AR right? Try doing them on an alt. Grind doesn’t = challenging to me either..

Completely irrelevant to my original argument. As I said, if all you care about is the fractals, you’re going to suffer in this game anyway. You don’t need full ascended gear for anything else, including WvW.

And you can level another alt through fractals if you like by taking your time and not wanting everything NOW.

Time gating isn’t grind btw, so you know.

I mean by the time you’re at level 40 you should have plenty of extra rings for your next alt to start.

Mathias.9657:

You heard it, OP. Just be inferior on alts and enjoy it, even if you don’t enjoy it. (really guys? blaming the problem on him? Lol…) this game actually requires you to have a main with fractals and WvW ranks, etc.

First, no. Nothing forces you to pick a main and stick with it. Second, the problem is on him. Speaking of Fractals and WvW specifically, the game massively encourages using your alts because those activities scale them all to level 80 and still let them gain experience to level them up. But if all you want is the higher-tier fractals then you’ll have to work your way up to them just like you had to the first time. I genuinely don’t understand the concept of expecting a second reward without doing it a second time. Likewise for WvW ranks (though I’ll detail that toward the bottom of the post).

On the topic of repetitive content that’s being argued: all MMOs work this way. All MMOs will always work this way (for the foreseeable future). The reason is largely because programming code is not self-evolving or self-changing. So when it comes down to finite content equating to a chore that you repeat, it depends entirely on the individual and how much they’ve completed or how much they care about the overlap. People who make lots of alts typically don’t care much, and many of them make the alts specifically to complete different bits of the content on those different characters which reduces the overlap to its absolute minimum without even really trying to.

As to what Vayne was harping on: people want their cookie(s) NOW. This is about as simple as it gets.
-People want to do high-tier fractals NOW. Well, you need some Agony Resistance up there so you’ll need to work your way up to it (no different than you did the first time).
-People want their alts to have high WvW ranks NOW. Well… uh… do some WvW on them. Especially if it’s a different profession: getting your WvW rank up on a Guardian doesn’t mean you’ve earned that rank on a Thief or Mesmer. Titles being account-bound is a matter of convenience, but WvW ranks are not. You want that rank on your alt? Go prove you deserve it on your alt. Unless your alts are all the same profession with the same build and equipment setup there’s no reason for that rank to ever be account-wide. If that IS all you’re doing when making alts then not only am I very curious about why you would do that, but I question your sanity, and I applaud your patience, determination and more than anything else your impervious defense against repetition.

Archmortal.1027:

Chiming in with the others: alts are not an interchangeable skin to use over the first character you level up. There’s absolutely nothing in this game that discourages using alternate characters.

Lol, you are joking, right? Are you trying to say that account-based time-gating (as opposed to effort-based restriction) on top tier equipment is in no way discriminating to alts? That the fact that more and more rewards are now account-based also in no way affects people with multiple characters?

If it’s not alt-unfriendly, than i don’t know what would be.

Seems like everytime I log into these forums for a quick read I see this Vayne character defending Anet from complaints and grievances that their users have. You sure your not employed by Anet Vayne? Seems like you have a full time job for yourself here.

Hammerguard.9834:

Why does Anet keep discouraging us from playing alternate characters between fractals, ascended gear, WvW ranks, and even Bloodstone Shards?

I would love to be able to play fractals on one of my alts just for fun but that would be a huge waste of time…

Don’t forget all the ‘rewards’ we keep getting from these updates. At most we can get is one of each of theses rewards. So what if we want it on more than one toon? We’re screwed. At least with the Halloween back items we could get it on each of our toons, if we put the work in. Now we can only get one. So if I wanted the new tentacle backpack (can’t remember how to spell it, Scalerite?), or the flower, or the fused gauntlets, or whatever comes in the next arc, on more than one of my 10 characters, I don’t have the option. So I agree with OP, Anet does (seem) to keep forcing us away from/giving us no reason to having multiple characters.

nirvana.8245:

Seems like everytime I log into these forums for a quick read I see this Vayne character defending Anet from complaints and grievances that their users have. You sure your not employed by Anet Vayne? Seems like you have a full time job for yourself here.

I doubt he’s employed by Anet.

How ever. The more one posts on the forums. The less they are playing the game. Meaning they’re not enjoying the game as much as they say they do or else they would be playing it instead of posting here for lengthy periods of time.

Which leads to one thing. Boredom.

People don’t want to do long grindy tasks multiple times for multiple characters. It is boring. Especially the second time around.

tolunart.2095:

You’re confusing the issue with the “why can’t I min/max all my character slots at the same time?” issue. They are not the same.

Alts are not just suits of clothing to be changed at will. Each is its own entity and while a lot of things can be shared among them, not everything can. It’s not a problem – I have 11 slots and every one is at a different place in the game, from 2 max level toons, one closing in on level 80, and others that have barely started.

If starting over with a fresh toon is a problem for you – don’t. Min/max players are best served by concentrating on a single character, perhaps two if you want to try different roles or mix it up a little. Alt-crazy types like myself generally don’t care about getting “best in slot” items for five, ten or more characters. That’s just setting yourself up for frustration, and complaining about it is a “you” problem, not an Anet problem.

Very few players actually want this kind of thing, so constantly complaining about it isn’t going to suddenly make them change the game around your preferences.

You’ve had great insight in the past regarding time gating and ascended gear, so maybe you can help me understand. Why aren’t alt’s a suit of clothing we can change at will? What I mean is, even if Frederick Gonzeles DeLangostino is a different “person” than Sarah Peppercorn(from an RP perspective) , I am still the same person controlling the toons. And therefore, if I do fractals level 1 to 40 on Frederick I’m just repeating content to do it on Sarah.

I know I don’t “have to do it” and it’s “my choice” and I’m honestly not looking for a fight. I’m just trying to understand a perspective that is different from my own. Toon centric vs. player centric may be a good way to describe it.

nirvana.8245:

Seems like everytime I log into these forums for a quick read I see this Vayne character defending Anet from complaints and grievances that their users have. You sure your not employed by Anet Vayne? Seems like you have a full time job for yourself here.

And this adds to the conversation how?

Frankly, I only defend Anet when people make spurious claims or use hyperbole. In this particular case, I’m not defending Anet at all. The OPs premise is based on a play style that not everyone shares and I’m pointing that out.

How you can get defending Anet from that is beyond me.

Azure Prower.8701:

nirvana.8245:

Seems like everytime I log into these forums for a quick read I see this Vayne character defending Anet from complaints and grievances that their users have. You sure your not employed by Anet Vayne? Seems like you have a full time job for yourself here.

I doubt he’s employed by Anet.

How ever. The more one posts on the forums. The less they are playing the game. Meaning they’re not enjoying the game as much as they say they do or else they would be playing it instead of posting here for lengthy periods of time.

Which leads to one thing. Boredom.

People don’t want to do long grindy tasks multiple times for multiple characters. It is boring. Especially the second time around.

Look up my achievement points and tell me I’m not playing the game. lol

Could someone explain to me how five character slots, five playable races, eight playable professions, 18 personal story lines, and account based Achievements discourage playing multiple characters?

darkace.8925:

Could someone explain to me how five character slots, five playable races, eight playable professions, 18 personal story lines, and account based Achievements discourage playing multiple characters?

True that the story is different enough (up to a point), the events can be different enough so even if you play the game more than 1 time, and in the same zones, you might experience something unique and new, just need to search a bit. The professions are unique and don’t play the exact same way, they all have their special abilities. I don’t think the complaint about multiple characters is about these though.

Progression in Fractals and WvW are what most people are talking about.

darkace.8925:

Could someone explain to me how five character slots, five playable races, eight playable professions, 18 personal story lines, and account based Achievements discourage playing multiple characters?

Assuming you are sincere in your question….

In general, I think the OP’s complaint is that for each alt you need to repeat so much content that is, frankly, boring. For example, let’s assume that the mechanics of doing a fractal are pretty much the same no matter which class / race you play (I don’t know for certain cause I’m fractal level 5 :-P). For the OP, fractals only get challenging when you hit level 40ish. Up to then its pure repetition. The 40 -60 hours of play time to get to level 40+ discourages him from playing on his alt.

One explanation is that since your can get the daily chest on each of multiple toons (I think — level 5) you should have to invest in the grind a second time in order to get there.

Also, as far as fractals go, I thought you could do any level at any time. If you have a toon with level 48 fractals you should (maybe — level 5) have enough rings / relics to get good AR on your alt.

Also the methods used to obtain ascended gear are quit alt-unfriendly. Time gating is a necessary evil in order to allow the hardcore to feel like their progressing without having the stats go up too fast. However, time gating means that it take twice as many days to gear out two characters as 1. Most complaints I’ve seen (and raised) about this is that people want to put in twice the effort but hate that it takes twice as many days.

TooBz.3065:

Also, as far as fractals go, I thought you could do any level at any time. If you have a toon with level 48 fractals you should (maybe — level 5) have enough rings / relics to get good AR on your alt.

You can do any level you like, however your rewards are based on your personal level, unless the fractal level is lower than your personal then you get rewards based on the fractal level. If you have a toon at level 48 fractals you should have more than 2, maybe 3, alts with good AR to do higher levels (not 48 of course)

The reason repetition exists in MMOs is because of the whole longevity factor. MMOs are expected to last hundreds, if not thousands of hours. There’s simply no way to program that into a game without repetition.

People say they want stuff a certain way and I really believe they feel they want it…but that doesn’t mean that when they get it they’ll actually be happier.

My son got his legendary weapon and stopped playing. He’s probably just taking a break, but you know…his attention span isn’t my attention span. He may never come back to the game. As long as he was working on it, he was there.

It’s true that people can get frustrated having to do the same stuff over again, but too much time saving actually works against the best interests of the game…even if players want to save time.

maddoctor.2738:

TooBz.3065:

Also, as far as fractals go, I thought you could do any level at any time. If you have a toon with level 48 fractals you should (maybe — level 5) have enough rings / relics to get good AR on your alt.

You can do any level you like, however your rewards are based on your personal level, unless the fractal level is lower than your personal then you get rewards based on the fractal level. If you have a toon at level 48 fractals you should have more than 2, maybe 3, alts with good AR to do higher levels (not 48 of course)

Are daily chests tied to the toon or the account? If they are tied to the account then I totally understand, if they are tied to the toon, then (and believe me I always side with the Alts on this) I think a person should have to grind up the levels to get the second chest.