Guild Wars 2

I was willing to write long post about subject but I am too casual for it
Simply, latest patch change very little about wasted expirience. Now we have sutable players which are maxed maxed masteries in main parts of game and can gain xp again and others wich are treated as second grade citizens without that right.
As I see( and it`s mentioned many times before by other players but I have need to repeat it because of current situation) easy solution will be to add XP reward track option in masteries pane so that player can choose where will XP go, on Tyrian, HoT masteries or on earlier mantioned option. That can be solution for problem that we have now and prevent it for upcoming expansions.
Thanks

I think your idea is sensible, but your spelling and lack of grammar or formatting will put people off reading it.

To tl;dr, The player can choose if XP goes into Mastery tracks or into Spirit Shards.

I don’t understand why this is a problem.

I haven’t maxed all of my masteries yet, therefore I don’t want my XP to go on spirit shards (which I already have far more than enough of and can get from other places) – I want it to go on finishing my masteries.

I don’t feel like a second class citizen or like I’m being discriminated against. I feel like I still have an actual use for my XP, instead of it being dumped into a ‘consolation prize’ which is what will happen if I ever finish them all. (Which seems unlikely now they’re adding new ones.)

Danikat.8537:

I don’t understand why this is a problem.

I haven’t maxed all of my masteries yet, therefore I don’t want my XP to go on spirit shards (which I already have far more than enough of and can get from other places) – I want it to go on finishing my masteries.

I don’t feel like a second class citizen or like I’m being discriminated against. I feel like I still have an actual use for my XP, instead of it being dumped into a ‘consolation prize’ which is what will happen if I ever finish them all. (Which seems unlikely now they’re adding new ones.)

The XP being wasted either waiting for new mastery points, or locked behind the Raid is being wasted, not going into those masteries. And can’t be used to get Spirit Shards, either.

How is it wasted? Once you’re maxed, you’re maxed. Simple and the same in any game.
And really unclear what casual players are or why they are being discriminated against.

As Sartharina said, the problem is when you have more than enough exp for the Masteries, but not enough Mastery Points to acquire them. At that point your exp goes nowhere and is wasted until you are able to get enough mastery points to open up new masteries or you finish all of them.

Glacial.9516:

As Sartharina said, the problem is when you have more than enough exp for the Masteries, but not enough Mastery Points to acquire them. At that point your exp goes nowhere and is wasted until you are able to get enough mastery points to open up new masteries or you finish all of them.

That’s not a problem though … I believe that’s the intent. If you want that XP to matter, you need to actively get the mastery points. It’s a way for Anet to encourage players to experience the game. If some XP is wasted in the process, so be it.

Obtena.7952:

Glacial.9516:

As Sartharina said, the problem is when you have more than enough exp for the Masteries, but not enough Mastery Points to acquire them. At that point your exp goes nowhere and is wasted until you are able to get enough mastery points to open up new masteries or you finish all of them.

That’s not a problem though … I believe that’s the intent. If you want that XP to matter, you need to actively get the mastery points.

In the meantime, I’d like to be able to earn Spirit Shards with XP. Because one of my HoT mastery tracks is locked behind a Raid that I tried and cannot beat a boss in to unlock. So now I have a lot of XP-earning stuff that does nothing at all.

Obtena.7952:

Glacial.9516:

As Sartharina said, the problem is when you have more than enough exp for the Masteries, but not enough Mastery Points to acquire them. At that point your exp goes nowhere and is wasted until you are able to get enough mastery points to open up new masteries or you finish all of them.

That’s not a problem though … I believe that’s the intent. If you want that XP to matter, you need to actively get the mastery points. It’s a way for Anet to encourage players to experience the game. If some XP is wasted in the process, so be it.

Except for the fact that it also requires raiding, an activity that the very devs stated they developed as challenging group content for a minority of the player-base. I do not believe that this is intentional. Anet has made plenty of oversights before.

Unfortunately they don’t seem to realise that some of us will never finish out masteries and still hate to see the XP numbers flashing up and going nowhere.

I probably have got as many CT mastery points as i am likely to get, there are perhaps one or two left that I might manage. Pact Commander line is complete, the first line of Legendary Crafting is done and that is it. I don’t like Fractals so that takes out all of those points as well as others like the spoon collection. Dungeons, I do occasionally, Raids i have never done in any game and feel no need to. What do I do, I run around the wonderful zones they have created, killing mobs, gathering mats and completing events when i feel like it. I am starting to dislike the new zones where the events seem to get in the way of exploring the area, and the paths are so narrow that playing a character that relies on movement to stay out of trouble seems pointless.

My solution to the Mastery Point problem is simple, a Mastery Point track. It can be filled multiple times and each time will award 1 Mastery Point. It won’t be quick (or as other might put it, it would be another grind), but at least the XP would be going somewhere.

Otherwise if they want to tie the Mastery Points in to achievements then maybe they could expand the kill X mobs achievement list so that you can get them there, or add in gather X nodes, or complete X events. The numbers would have to be high, but they could be gained just by playing the game.

Sartharina.3542:

Obtena.7952:

Glacial.9516:

As Sartharina said, the problem is when you have more than enough exp for the Masteries, but not enough Mastery Points to acquire them. At that point your exp goes nowhere and is wasted until you are able to get enough mastery points to open up new masteries or you finish all of them.

That’s not a problem though … I believe that’s the intent. If you want that XP to matter, you need to actively get the mastery points.

In the meantime, I’d like to be able to earn Spirit Shards with XP. Because one of my HoT mastery tracks is locked behind a Raid that I tried and cannot beat a boss in to unlock. So now I have a lot of XP-earning stuff that does nothing at all.

We would like lots of things … that’s not how game design works though. There are lots of things in games that people can’t do as well; that doesn’t mean Anet should change it to accommodate those people. Having lots of XP earning stuff that does nothing is not a problem. I have lots of boosters I don’t need, etc …

Ganathar.4956:

Obtena.7952:

Glacial.9516:

As Sartharina said, the problem is when you have more than enough exp for the Masteries, but not enough Mastery Points to acquire them. At that point your exp goes nowhere and is wasted until you are able to get enough mastery points to open up new masteries or you finish all of them.

That’s not a problem though … I believe that’s the intent. If you want that XP to matter, you need to actively get the mastery points. It’s a way for Anet to encourage players to experience the game. If some XP is wasted in the process, so be it.

Except for the fact that it also requires raiding, an activity that the very devs stated they developed as challenging group content for a minority of the player-base. I do not believe that this is intentional. Anet has made plenty of oversights before.

I don’t do raids either and I have absolutely no problem with some mastery points coming from doing raids.

I have no strong opinion on whether or not there should be a repeatable Mastery Track open to all players who have hit the minimum level to work on masteries. I do say that if they put it in that it shouldn’t only be open to players who have all Mastery Points because some players don’t like to raid or don’t like to do fractals or can’t do the adventures fast enough due to technical issues.

I’m not sure the Devs stated that they were making challenging group content for a minority of the playerbase.

Sure, it’s more than likely true, but I don’t think they ever talked about it that way.

Remember, the last Raid wing has a much easier boss in it, so for those that were discouraged before, they might consider trying again (just to unlock the Track) to get a kill.

Good luck.

Ganathar.4956:

Obtena.7952:

Glacial.9516:

As Sartharina said, the problem is when you have more than enough exp for the Masteries, but not enough Mastery Points to acquire them. At that point your exp goes nowhere and is wasted until you are able to get enough mastery points to open up new masteries or you finish all of them.

That’s not a problem though … I believe that’s the intent. If you want that XP to matter, you need to actively get the mastery points. It’s a way for Anet to encourage players to experience the game. If some XP is wasted in the process, so be it.

Except for the fact that it also requires raiding, an activity that the very devs stated they developed as challenging group content for a minority of the player-base. I do not believe that this is intentional. Anet has made plenty of oversights before.

Mastery points require Raiding? Is that what you are saying?

Obtena.7952:

Ganathar.4956:

Obtena.7952:

Glacial.9516:

As Sartharina said, the problem is when you have more than enough exp for the Masteries, but not enough Mastery Points to acquire them. At that point your exp goes nowhere and is wasted until you are able to get enough mastery points to open up new masteries or you finish all of them.

That’s not a problem though … I believe that’s the intent. If you want that XP to matter, you need to actively get the mastery points. It’s a way for Anet to encourage players to experience the game. If some XP is wasted in the process, so be it.

Except for the fact that it also requires raiding, an activity that the very devs stated they developed as challenging group content for a minority of the player-base. I do not believe that this is intentional. Anet has made plenty of oversights before.

Mastery points require Raiding? Is that what you are saying?

Some.people have said that if you do not have the raid Masterys maxed, then you will not be able to get SS in HoT only in core. That’s is of course assuming you have maxed all lines bar the raid ones.

I’m not liking the title of this thread because it detracts from the actual issue.

I have both a HoT and Non HoT accounts. I bet it is hard to see with only a HoT account but every time I play the Non Hot, a smile spreads across my face each time I notice a reward for completing a levels worth of experience.
I’m not smiling every time I notice my experience bar doesn’t move.

After a while it starts to seem like I’m doing the same amount of effort, but not receiving any rewards. The levels may be required to achieve the mastery rewards but why is there now, no credit for for the level? Doesn’t seem right.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Some.people have said that if you do not have the raid Masterys maxed, then you will not be able to get SS in HoT only in core. That’s is of course assuming you have maxed all lines bar the raid ones.

That is correct. Only “hard core” players can access Spirit Shards in HoT zones. The rest of the player base, whether they paid for HoT or not, is stuck with Core Tyria only.

Obtena.7952:

We would like lots of things … that’s not how game design works though. There are lots of things in games that people can’t do as well; that doesn’t mean Anet should change it to accommodate those people. Having lots of XP earning stuff that does nothing is not a problem. I have lots of boosters I don’t need, etc …

Flawed argumentation. This is merely a suggestion for the developers to change to accommodate the system to incorporate many different types of players, especially common in an MMO, rather than the set that has defeated one raid boss.

tl;dr: Just because developers can’t do all suggestions doesn’t make it a bad suggestion.

There’s nothing “hardcore” left of this game nor was there ever. It’s either you attempt an event or you want it handed to you and when it’s not handed to you its discrimination.

Obtena.7952:

That’s not a problem though … I believe that’s the intent. If you want that XP to matter, you need to actively get the mastery points. It’s a way for Anet to encourage players to experience the game. If some XP is wasted in the process, so be it.

The problem with it is that for some of us it’s not that we don’t WANT go get the masteries, it’s a matter of not having the time to spend hours and hours building up obscene AR to get the fractal masteries or maybe we don’t have quite the special clique of friends to drag us through Raids and teach them to us. In my case I have been trying to finish the Aetherblade diving for my last point forever but due to the terrain at the top where you jump from it’s a completely blind jump.

The OP isn’t asking for the MP’s to be given to them, just that all of these reward boosts and XP tomes we get as rewards dozens of times a day don’t go to complete waste. We used to get spendable currency every time our xp bar rolled over based on efforts and boosts, now days even doing map completion is pointless after 1 toon because it wastes so much xp.

how is this discriminating against PvE players when PvP and WvW players aren’t getting these either?

Khisanth.2948:

how is this discriminating against PvE players when PvP and WvW players aren’t getting these either?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but PvP and WvW don’t give EXP at all. Instead, you get Tomes, which DO turn into spirit shards for level 80 characters. So, PvP and WvW players ARE getting them, just in a slightly different presentation.

All people who have not completed masteries are locked out of receiving any further exp bar movement and or spirit shards, until they complete all mastery lines in that area.

IMHO, it is not discrimination, it is just pointless and could cost us more players.

Adding a way for players who are “not” interested in any more Mastery tracks, could increase the number of players, who knows….

I boggle at the simplicity of the idea of adding a Spirit Shard track to masteries area and vote for it.

I have all the current masteries, and I agree that the raid masteries shouldn’t count as they aren’t content everyone can do. I have no suggestions on how to change that though since I imagine it’ll be hard for them to change it so that they can exclude the raid masteries and not anything else. So don’t get me wrong I still want you to waste XP if you aren’t getting the normal materies done. There’s no excuse to me for not getting those. Spirit shards can be gained from tomes same as always. Plus you’ll have plenty in soon enough. Not everything needs instant gratification.

Choice, each person has one. Force them to choose another game and it becomes very very quiet here.

Please think about others now and then. Thank you.

Khisanth.2948:

how is this discriminating against PvE players when PvP and WvW players aren’t getting these either?

Casual players have a real hard time with the raids. Thus they cant unlock the last masteries in hot. Thus they cant get the spirit shards.

At least that seems to be the logic.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Obtena.7952:

We would like lots of things … that’s not how game design works though. There are lots of things in games that people can’t do as well; that doesn’t mean Anet should change it to accommodate those people. Having lots of XP earning stuff that does nothing is not a problem. I have lots of boosters I don’t need, etc …

Flawed argumentation. This is merely a suggestion for the developers to change to accommodate the system to incorporate many different types of players, especially common in an MMO, rather than the set that has defeated one raid boss.

tl;dr: Just because developers can’t do all suggestions doesn’t make it a bad suggestion.

I don’t see how that’s flawed .. .it’s exactly how it works. Suggesting things is much different than “I want this”.

Muusic.2967:

Obtena.7952:

That’s not a problem though … I believe that’s the intent. If you want that XP to matter, you need to actively get the mastery points. It’s a way for Anet to encourage players to experience the game. If some XP is wasted in the process, so be it.

The problem with it is that for some of us it’s not that we don’t WANT go get the masteries, it’s a matter of not having the time to spend hours and hours building up obscene AR to get the fractal masteries or maybe we don’t have quite the special clique of friends to drag us through Raids and teach them to us. In my case I have been trying to finish the Aetherblade diving for my last point forever but due to the terrain at the top where you jump from it’s a completely blind jump.

That’s ALSO not a problem. Never will the game accommodate every player and their lifestyle. Not having time to do something is never a reason to change it so that every player can get everything they want.

Obtena.7952:

Never will the game accommodate every player and their lifestyle. Not having time to do something is never a reason to change it so that every player can get everything they want.

Says who?

Seriously, says who? You?

“Never” is a very strong word, and for a game that’s supposed to be played for fun, it’s a bit out of place here. It’s worth it for the devs to take a moment and ask “What do we lose and gain if we put in a more casual way to do this?” Sometimes it’s not going to be worth it, but “never”?

Given that the new zone is in many ways the fallout of the raids, I’d say they could put in a purchased Raid Mastery unlock, paid for with zone currency. Then, add in a mastery track that, each time it’s completed, unlocks an extra mastery point. (Actually, two tracks. One for HoT, one for CT.) That way, even casual players can slowly but surely get all of the mastery tracks filled in over time, but the more hardcore players are able to skip over that grind (because they’ve done other kinds of grind instead.)

Obtena.7952:

I don’t see how that’s flawed .. .it’s exactly how it works. Suggesting things is much different than “I want this”.

Writing off an idea because it’s written as “I want..” rather than “I suggest..” is very obviously flawed, in my opinion.

Plus, if something isn’t a problem FOR YOU, doesn’t mean it’s not a problem for someone else. You can’t dictate what someone finds problematic and what not.

Palador.2170:

Obtena.7952:

Never will the game accommodate every player and their lifestyle. Not having time to do something is never a reason to change it so that every player can get everything they want.

Says who?

Seriously, says who? You?

“Never” is a very strong word, and for a game that’s supposed to be played for fun, it’s a bit out of place here. It’s worth it for the devs to take a moment and ask “What do we lose and gain if we put in a more casual way to do this?” Sometimes it’s not going to be worth it, but “never”?

Given that the new zone is in many ways the fallout of the raids, I’d say they could put in a purchased Raid Mastery unlock, paid for with zone currency. Then, add in a mastery track that, each time it’s completed, unlocks an extra mastery point. (Actually, two tracks. One for HoT, one for CT.) That way, even casual players can slowly but surely get all of the mastery tracks filled in over time, but the more hardcore players are able to skip over that grind (because they’ve done other kinds of grind instead.)

Seriously, says the gaming industry. What game accommodates every player that wants something … none. It’s impossible to do.

For folks with HoT that can’t get enough people to raid either because they don’t have many GW2 friends and/or don’t like to raid with random people they could just allow the players to raid with higher quality NPCs not unlike henchmen from GW1. They could put a GW1 style henchmen interface. The NPCs in fractals don’t really cut it. They just rush in and get themselves killed. They never taunt the target and retreat, go for lesser targets or as I like to do with enemy groups; string them out. That’kittenting them then backing away to string them out along a column to attack the ones in front.

I don’t team up with random people in private instances because of bad experiences doing so in dungeons. I only know a couple of people IRL that play GW2 and they aren’t up to the skill level to even attempt that type of content. I really think GW1 style henchmen like NPCs would solve a lot of the issues people have with going into that content.

As far as people without HoT accounts accessing those masteries I don’t see ANet changing anything for them anytime soon because they are pushing HoT. I’m sure it’ll be the same with HoT players when the next expansion comes out.

Palador.2170:

Obtena.7952:

Never will the game accommodate every player and their lifestyle. Not having time to do something is never a reason to change it so that every player can get everything they want.

Says who?

Seriously, says who? You?

“Never” is a very strong word, and for a game that’s supposed to be played for fun, it’s a bit out of place here. It’s worth it for the devs to take a moment and ask “What do we lose and gain if we put in a more casual way to do this?” Sometimes it’s not going to be worth it, but “never”?

Given that the new zone is in many ways the fallout of the raids, I’d say they could put in a purchased Raid Mastery unlock, paid for with zone currency. Then, add in a mastery track that, each time it’s completed, unlocks an extra mastery point. (Actually, two tracks. One for HoT, one for CT.) That way, even casual players can slowly but surely get all of the mastery tracks filled in over time, but the more hardcore players are able to skip over that grind (because they’ve done other kinds of grind instead.)

While I disagree with Obtena on whether or not the spirit shards should be able to be earned before completing all mastery tracks, Obtena is right in saying that they can’t please everyone.

There will always be some content that one person will love but another person will hate.

Obtena.7952:

Ganathar.4956:

Obtena.7952:

Glacial.9516:

As Sartharina said, the problem is when you have more than enough exp for the Masteries, but not enough Mastery Points to acquire them. At that point your exp goes nowhere and is wasted until you are able to get enough mastery points to open up new masteries or you finish all of them.

That’s not a problem though … I believe that’s the intent. If you want that XP to matter, you need to actively get the mastery points. It’s a way for Anet to encourage players to experience the game. If some XP is wasted in the process, so be it.

Except for the fact that it also requires raiding, an activity that the very devs stated they developed as challenging group content for a minority of the player-base. I do not believe that this is intentional. Anet has made plenty of oversights before.

Mastery points require Raiding? Is that what you are saying?

Finishing up the HoT mastery tracks to be able to earn Spirit Shards from XP earned (Especially in Bloodstone Fen) requires getting a Raid Boss kill.

Seera.5916:

While I disagree with Obtena on whether or not the spirit shards should be able to be earned before completing all mastery tracks, Obtena is right in saying that they can’t please everyone.

There will always be some content that one person will love but another person will hate.

What I’m disagreeing with is Obtena’s automatic dismissal of the idea simply because it’s being made in an attempt to open things up to everyone.

Obtena.7952:

Seriously, says the gaming industry. What game accommodates every player that wants something … none. It’s impossible to do.

Impossible to do doesn’t mean it’s not a goal worth working towards within reason. Nobody will ever make the “perfect” game, but every game developer tries to get as close as they can. Suggestions shouldn’t be dismissed just because they won’t be perfect. The gaming industry knows that, that’s why we’re on the boards for GW2, and not Everquest or Ultima Online.

The suggestions may be of no merit to you, but that doesn’t mean the devs should just throw them out without consideration.

Palador.2170:

Seera.5916:

While I disagree with Obtena on whether or not the spirit shards should be able to be earned before completing all mastery tracks, Obtena is right in saying that they can’t please everyone.

There will always be some content that one person will love but another person will hate.

What I’m disagreeing with is Obtena’s automatic dismissal of the idea simply because it’s being made in an attempt to open things up to everyone.

Obtena.7952:

Seriously, says the gaming industry. What game accommodates every player that wants something … none. It’s impossible to do.

Impossible to do doesn’t mean it’s not a goal worth working towards within reason. Nobody will ever make the “perfect” game, but every game developer tries to get as close as they can. Suggestions shouldn’t be dismissed just because they won’t be perfect.

That’s not why I dismissed the idea. There is little value in it. The complaint is that you have to DO something to ‘unlock’ XP being useful … in otherwords, people don’t want to do something to get something specific. I find that line of thinking … deplorable for any game. This isn’t choose your own adventure. It’s not a negotiation where you decide what you’re willing to do to get the things you want. it’s not ‘locked’ by anything but a person’s willingness to get something done.

Okay I had to think about this post, before I posted. First, I don’t like the word discrimination because it’s the wrong word but that’s just semantics.

Over all I agree that being able to get spirit shards at the end of masteries should not including raiding masteries. What Anet is essentially saying is you can get mastery points if you max out ALL your masteries, which includes raids, and everyone who raids and does that gets this spirit shard advantage that people who don’t raid can’t have, even if they’re never going to raid.

This will have the effect of disenfranchising the casual player base. These guys raid, so they can have more spirit shards. You don’t, so your experience will be useless forever in the HoT zones.

It’s a bad look if you ask me.

If it was something other than Spirit Shards on offer, I might have an opinion, but….as it is, I have way too many now, so even if I did have all my Masteries finished, Raid or no, I won’t really miss this ‘reward’.

In other words, I wish it was something else one could acquire.

I’d agree the thread title is a bit misleading. I certainly wouldn’t call it discrimination and I wouldn’t be surprised if it was actually an oversight or a bug in how it functions.

It’s not a big deal while Spirit shards have little demand (especially for anyone that had skill points saved up), but if this is seen as an increase to the supply of Spirit shards and results in a larger selection of items to purchase, a problem does arise. Plus I would be genuinely shocked if even half of GW2 players had ALL of their masteries unlocked.

Anyway, this is something that was asked for immediately after HoT was released. A repeatable Mastery line that would reward a Spirit shard or a Writ of Experience or such at the end of it. Ideally we’d eventually have multiple that would let us choose which type of minor reward we would like, similar to Reward tracks in PvP/WvW but considerably less rewarding.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

If it was something other than Spirit Shards on offer, I might have an opinion, but….as it is, I have way too many now, so even if I did have all my Masteries finished, Raid or no, I won’t really miss this ‘reward’.

In other words, I wish it was something else one could acquire.

How many legendary weapons have you made? lol

Obtena.7952:

Palador.2170:

Seera.5916:

While I disagree with Obtena on whether or not the spirit shards should be able to be earned before completing all mastery tracks, Obtena is right in saying that they can’t please everyone.

There will always be some content that one person will love but another person will hate.

What I’m disagreeing with is Obtena’s automatic dismissal of the idea simply because it’s being made in an attempt to open things up to everyone.

Obtena.7952:

Seriously, says the gaming industry. What game accommodates every player that wants something … none. It’s impossible to do.

Impossible to do doesn’t mean it’s not a goal worth working towards within reason. Nobody will ever make the “perfect” game, but every game developer tries to get as close as they can. Suggestions shouldn’t be dismissed just because they won’t be perfect.

That’s not why I dismissed the idea. There is little value in it. The complaint is that you have to DO something to ‘unlock’ XP being useful … in otherwords, people don’t want to do something to get something specific. I find that line of thinking … deplorable for any game. This isn’t choose your own adventure. It’s not a negotiation where you decide what you’re willing to do to get the things you want. it’s not ‘locked’ by anything but a person’s willingness to get something done.

Atleast we agree on this, but yea everyone he has a good point, this is an rpg after all, progression is key in most rpgs.

Vayne.8563:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

If it was something other than Spirit Shards on offer, I might have an opinion, but….as it is, I have way too many now, so even if I did have all my Masteries finished, Raid or no, I won’t really miss this ‘reward’.

In other words, I wish it was something else one could acquire.

How many legendary weapons have you made? lol

Ah, well, we don’t all play 12 hours a day, do we? Lol.

All my HoT masteries, except the raid one, are at the second highest tier with all the XP bars maxed out on the final tiers. So I’m missing an absolute shed-load of mastery points but I have nowhere for surplus XP to go.

I was initially excited when the XP change was announced, then disappointed that it required all masteries to be maxed, then absolutely gobsmacked that they had seen fit to include the raid mastery in this requirement. Many, many players just don’t raid and have no interest in doing so, so those bonus SS’s are forever out of reach.

In Tyria my story is slightly better. I need 4 or 5 more MPs to max the last mastery, Legendary, but I have absolutely no interest in Legendaries so it seems a bit daft that I need to finish that track just to make XP useful again. All the remaining MPs have a very poor reward:effort ratio for me.

So whilst I agree that “discrimination” is too strong a word I do think that the XP change is only going to benefit a minority of players. I wonder what percentage of players have all masteries maxed out, including raids.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Ah, well, we don’t all play 12 hours a day, do we? Lol.

Length of time played a day isn’t a definition for casual or hardcore. Nor is raiding a hardcore activity, my guild runs practice raids every week and there are plenty of first timers each time. One of my friends from another game, whenever he comes here, just plays lowbies for a whole day.

I think we need to define who these casuals are that are being discriminated against before we can decide if there’s any merit to any of this. If we just mean “people who don’t want to raid” then the collective noun for that isn’t “casuals”.

Raids were a bad idea from the get go and never should have been added to this game. Now that they are here though, they need to be segregated on the mastery list so that the many players who choose not to participate in them aren’t left out of the spirit shards.

Zelanard.5806:

Khisanth.2948:

how is this discriminating against PvE players when PvP and WvW players aren’t getting these either?

Casual players have a real hard time with the raids. Thus they cant unlock the last masteries in hot. Thus they cant get the spirit shards.

At least that seems to be the logic.

Spirit shards are also available drops for lv80s.

mtpelion.4562:

Raids were a bad idea from the get go and never should have been added to this game. Now that they are here though, they need to be segregated on the mastery list so that the many players who choose not to participate in them aren’t left out of the spirit shards.

I don’t play in raids but I don’t think they are a total bad idea. I think they could be approached differently. They should have a scalable from single player mode up to 10 players with GW1 style henchmen like NPCs padding out the squad gaps.

I also think they should have been done from a story perspective of the squad going in as a Pact advance force to establish a foothold and setup waypoints; basically readying the map to become a regular PvE map. Even after being opened up as a PvE map they could still have the raid going but on a private wild map instance.

If a player chooses not to raid before going to the PvE version they should get a story playback about the Pact forces and background on the map. Or it could be done from a NPC. I just find it annoying that maps with PvE story content that are basically attached to PvE aren’t accessible to PvE only players.

I was thinking of making similar post. First I want to comment on people who don’t see non-raiders not getting any spirit shards despite maxing all the HoT mastery except raid not a problem. Either you’re a raider or you’re insensitive towards other people.

I would give a simple analogy here. You are sitting on your chair in front of your computer enjoying your life, doesn’t mean everyone in the world are happy like you. There are always someone on some part of the world having a hard time. You’re allow to voice your disagreement if the suggestion here will negatively impact your gameplay. Don’t argue for the sake of argument just because you don’t see any problem.

For you raiders who don’t see it as a problem. Raiders already get all the best thing in game.
-Legendary armor (Yes, you guys deserved by doing hard content)
-Extra story of what currently happening to LW (Still bitter about this)
-Higher drop rate of ascended gear box
-New weapon skin
-Spirit shards after maxing all the HoT mastery (This is the one we’re talking here)
-More content update since HoT was released
Think about it. As a non-raider this means I will not be able to get any spirit shards when I max my experience FOREVER! I won’t call this discrimination, I would say it’s unfair to us, non-raiders.

Back to topic. I like Galeom.6832 suggestion and I hope something will be done about it. If it can’t be done because of technical problem then I would suggest Raid Mastery to be move out and not tie to HoT mastery.

PS: I don’t raid doesn’t mean I’m casual.

Just a suggestion and not a complaint here, maybe the masteries need mini masteries in between with something a little more interesting, the masteries are cool but in the end they do come off kind of bland, they certainly are useful, I just think maybe some fun stuff can be thrown in between the harder ones to make it more rewarding.

And regardless of how casual you play, why would you want to max everything in a month? They will not keep you coming back in the end, most people will get bored with no incentive to continue playing and thats the truth, if all you have left to do is get legendaries trust me its not enough because thats all you end up doing and its way to grindy to do one thing for that amount of time for many people.

Well, I think discrimination is a harsh word, it certainly does three bad things.

1. Makes it harder for casuals or those that just bought or just returned to catch up.
2. Further makes it hard on primary WvW players to get PvE things they may want.
3. Is uninteresting game design. *

The making it harder for casuals is well-covered. For WvW, having a mastery track is a wonderful suggestion imho. *

• I don’t design MMOs, but here is a quote from a game designer I do respect for his work (also non-MMO):

“Games are a series of interesting decisions,” says Firaxis’ Sid Meier

Once you have the bars filled up now, you have no choice. And not only no choice, but no choice but to be felt like your candy has been taken away. That is part of the feeling also behind the constant requests to buff not nerf to balance.

Either give us a choice, or allow exp that is going down a rabbit hole to be used. The WvW track introduces an interesting choice. For casual/returnee/new PvE only players, either auto rolling it over once they are gated on mastery points or allowing it as a choice is good. When you aren’t gated on mastery points, which track to train is an interesting choice.

Fwiw, I am gated for old tyria. But I only lack 2 points before all trees are full and I’ll get exp again. I see it, but it won’t affect me for long. I can only imagine the anguish of someone stuck behind a fully exp filled last legendary research track, but out of mastery points. That is a long time to go with no candy and no interesting choices.