Guild Wars 2

Why do ascended crafting materials have disparate material costs? Let me clarify….why do recipes require 2 ore and 2-3 wood versus 3 cloth and 4 leather when the cloth and leather are harder to acquire than the ore and wood? Wood and ore are harvested materials, easy enough to acquire if you spend the time in maps harvesting, while cloth and leather are salvaged materials gained from Random Number Generator (RNG). Why would you make the recipe material cost higher for the material that is harder to get? Especially when that effects 6 out of 9 of your professions with regard to ascended armor crafting. It looks like you are promoting your 3 heavy armor professions over your 3 light and 3 medium armor professions since the material cost is so much lower to create a set of heavy armor. Why not standardize those costs, make them the same across the board or even switch those material costs? Wouldn’t that make more sense?

EXAMPLES – these are the base requirements for ascended gear materials. The second step for each piece seems to be nearly the same across the board in their costs. The costs become even more out of whack once you try to actually create the armor pieces though. It requires even more cloth and leather to actually make a light or medium armor piece.

Spool of Silk Weaving Thread
100 Bolts of Silk = 300 scraps of silk = RNG
1 Glob of Ectoplasm
25 Spools of Gossamer Thread

Spool of Thick Elonian Cord
50 Cured Thick Leather Squares = 200 Thick Leather Sections = RNG
1 Glob of Ectoplasm
10 Thermocatalytic Reagents

Cloth and Leather are salvaged by destroying loot drops from RNG

Lump of Mithrillium
50 Mithril Ingots = 100 Mithril Ore = Harvested
1 Glob of Ectoplasm
10 Thermocatalytic Reagents

Glob of Elder Spirit Residue
50 Elder Wood Planks = 150 Elder Wood Logs = Harvested
1 Glob of Ectoplasm
10 Thermocatalytic Reagents

Wood and Ore are harvested from nodes on open world maps

The advantage when gearing out a character clearly sits in the heavy armor wearers lap. Before I get some naysayer who just wants to argue, yes I’ve made full suits of ascended gear for each armor type and have kept track of the costs to do so. I just thought it worth a comment here due to the clear inequality between professions vs cost to equip.

EXAMPLE – using helm slot material requirements. All insignia for ascended armor require a standard 3 Bolts of Damask and 3 Elonian Leather Squares.

Heavy Helm
2 Bolts of Damask = Salvaged RNG
*1 Deldrimor Steel Ingot = Harvested

Medium Helm
2 Bolts of Damask = Salvaged RNG
1 Elonian Leather Square = Salvaged RNG

Light Helm
2 Bolts of Damask = Salvaged RNG
1 Elonian Leather Square = Salvaged RNG

(*)That one harvested material adds up when you think about it being similar for all 6 wear locations making Deldrimor Steel Ingots FAR easier to acquire through harvesting than cloth or leather through RNG. This makes heavy armor wearers have a clear advantage.

Because those material were worthless previously, and thus said worth (or lack thereof) created a glut.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Because those material were worthless previously, and thus said worth (or lack thereof) created a glut.

How does that answer the OP’s question? He was asking why there is such a disparity between recipes using salvaged materials, which are rarer due to RNG, versus ones using gathered materials which have a 100% guaranteed drop rate at the right node/tree/plant.

Regardless of the TP glut, that doesn’t excuse the bad design in recipe materials.

beep boop economy beep boop.

No, seriously, that’s the reason.

misterman.1530:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Because those material were worthless previously, and thus said worth (or lack thereof) created a glut.

How does that answer the OP’s question? He was asking why there is such a disparity between recipes using salvaged materials, which are rarer due to RNG, versus ones using gathered materials which have a 100% guaranteed drop rate at the right node/tree/plant.

Regardless of the TP glut, that doesn’t excuse the bad design in recipe materials.

People keep stating that the disparity in sources & required amounts (resulting in disparity in market prices) is “bad design,” without explaining why. There’s no reason, other than a personal preference for things to be ‘even’ that those things should be comparable.

And over time, due to changing demands (sometimes due ANet’s influence, sometimes not), the prices have varied. Leather is especially high now, but it used to be vendor price for virtually every tier. Cloth was similarly cheap (although not at all tiers). And mithril, despite its many other uses, was also cheap until recently.

I’m not against ANet deciding to intervene — I just don’t agree that the current design is inherently bad because it’s uneven nor do I agree that there’s any urgency in adjusting sources/requirements. Far better for ANet to approach the situation cautiously, lest we end up with a situation that is comparable to what we have now.

Lets try to ignore trading post prices for a moment and look at how these materials are acquired. The difference is between harvested materials and materials gained through RNG. The RNG materials are required more than the harvested materials, period. This makes it more advantageous to run a heavy armor toon than a light or medium armor profession. It is just easier overall to gear out the heavy. THAT is the design flaw that I am trying to bring to light. I could care less how much it costs on the trading post. For your average player just starting out that disparity in regard to difficulty of materials to obtain is huge. This game might be 3 years + old at this point but I would sincerely like to see it last another 3 years at least. And no I’m not spouting “It’s the end of the world!” but it is the kind of thing that can potentially chase away players once they figure it out. Especially if they do not know how to go about obtaining the things they need to being with.

misterman.1530:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Because those material were worthless previously, and thus said worth (or lack thereof) created a glut.

How does that answer the OP’s question? He was asking why there is such a disparity between recipes using salvaged materials, which are rarer due to RNG, versus ones using gathered materials which have a 100% guaranteed drop rate at the right node/tree/plant.

Regardless of the TP glut, that doesn’t excuse the bad design in recipe materials.

No, he asked why some ascended mats at their base mat requirements, need very different amounts of T2/3/4/5 mats. And Inculpatus answered that. There was a time before ascended mats when mats like silk and hard leather had millions available on the TP at their minimum price. You actually made more money, before they fixed the TP minimums, selling those mats to NPC vendors. We are talking 8 copper each.

So knowing how much of those mats were being generated combined with the glut on the market, the recipes were adjusted to reflect that. First silk went from 2 to 3 scraps to one bolt. Then Damask needed twice the number of bolts Vs leather squares needed for Elonian. Lastly with HoT, the changes to armor recipes to incorporate more leather and bumping the thick leather square from needing 3 to 4 thick leather sections.

It was also an attempt to bring the crafting cost of the various weights closer to one another as before HoT ascended light armor costs were much higher compared to the other two weights.

That might’ve been the case, but for whatever reasons that shifted the other way now. Gearing a light/medium armor character is way more costly than gearing a heavy, Elonian squares prices earlier this week were almost the double of Deldrimor ingots on TP. It also doesn’t help even one bit that upgrading the Workshop in the Guild Halls take 50 Elonian squares.

They made it that way to fix an unbalance, so they should probably do it again now that this has shifted.

They should add a NPC that trade one type of crafting material for another of the same tier.

This would make all material of the same tier have the same value, so no type of gear would be at a disadvantage over another.

It would stabilize the crafting material market.

I’m not sure anyone has established why they should be the same price? That seems like a personal preference thing.

Elonian is used for not only armor, but also guild halls, and is highly anticipated to be used in legendary armor. It is also used in the latest legendary shortbow. Therefore its demand is higher than the other materials, thus its price is also higher. They can not and should not adjust the prices/drop rates of materials every time the demand for that item changes. It is not only an unreasonable time commitment, but also bad for the economy.

Its hard to know the amount of supply coming and going through the market at any given time, but looking at the price history it seems fairly stable until a patch increased its demand. Then it was stable at that new price until another patch/announcement increased the demand again. This tells me that supply and demand are well balanced and the price stablizes very quickly when new demand is added. As demand trails off (no new raids, no new legendary weapons) and supply increases (influx of casual players with LS S3) the price will fall back down on its own.

Behellagh.1468:

First silk went from 2 to 3 scraps to one bolt. Then Damask needed twice the number of bolts Vs leather squares needed for Elonian.

Both those changes went in either in the same patch, or very close to each other. At the moment, just using one of them would have sufficed, but Anet decided fot overkill instead and overshoot the target by a mile.

Behellagh.1468:

Lastly with HoT, the changes to armor recipes to incorporate more leather and bumping the thick leather square from needing 3 to 4 thick leather sections.

It was supposed to balance the prices of cloth and leather. As in, while the prices of leather was really low, the prices of cloth were way too high. In the patch, Anet even worded it in a way that suggested that leather requirement would go up, bot cloth requirement would go down.

Instead, for all the recipes that mattered, they’ve just upped leather to the cloth level, creating situation where both resources suffer from insufficient supply.

Behellagh.1468:

It was also an attempt to bring the crafting cost of the various weights closer to one another as before HoT ascended light armor costs were much higher compared to the other two weights.

Yes, and lo and behold, Anet, as always, reacted in a way that made people wishing they didn’t ask for anything.

“Light armor prices are significantly greater that other weights and people want us to do something about it? I have a great idea, why don’t we increase price of the two other types to match. I bet people will be overjoyed!”

Be careful what you wish for, because Anet is sure to make things worse.

nsleep.7839:

They made it that way to fix an unbalance, so they should probably do it again now that this has shifted.

Don’t ask for that, They will just do something to increase the cost of deldrimor without lowering anything else.

Again, folks, lets leave the trading post out of it. Subjective vs Objective. The issue is, you have 4 main materials and 2 of which are acquired by harvesting. You go out, you search, you harvest and you get what you need. Then you have 2 other materials that you are subject to RNG to acquire, this is a hit or miss situation. You get lucky or you do not. The rub is that the recipes require more of the RNG material for light and medium armor wearers making their armor harder to craft. The cost of materials is subjective in view, for player “A” it is expensive while for player “B” it is not. That depends on if you know how to make money in this game or not. However the requirements in material cost is objective and is clearly skewed in favor of heavy armor wearers.

Dvious.8126:

Again, folks, lets leave the trading post out of it. Subjective vs Objective. The issue is, you have 4 main materials and 2 of which are acquired by harvesting. You go out, you search, you harvest and you get what you need. Then you have 2 other materials that you are subject to RNG to acquire, this is a hit or miss situation. You get lucky or you do not. The rub is that the recipes require more of the RNG material for light and medium armor wearers making their armor harder to craft. The cost of materials is subjective in view, for player “A” it is expensive while for player “B” it is not. That depends on if you know how to make money in this game or not. However the requirements in material cost is objective and is clearly skewed in favor of heavy armor wearers.

This doesn’t really make any sense. You can’t leave context out of the situation or you’ll come to the wrong conclusion. It’s like saying:

I have 100 pennies and 50 quarters. We have to leave dollar amounts out of the equation, it is objective that you have more pennies therefore the pennies are worth more.

The TP, useage, acquisition, supply and demand all play integral roles in the value of things. You can’t just arbitrarily ignore parts of the equation. Mithril only takes 2 per ingot because its demand is orders of magnitude times higher. I know people who buy 100,000 mithril ore PER DAY. Leather and Cloth does not have the same kind of demand, so it does not need the high volume deterministic sources. However you get blue/green gear from all aspects of play, most of which salvages into cloth and leather. This is a significant source. There are many other factors to consider. You can’t just single out one factor and pretend it gives any insight.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Dvious.8126:

Again, folks, lets leave the trading post out of it. Subjective vs Objective. The issue is, you have 4 main materials and 2 of which are acquired by harvesting. You go out, you search, you harvest and you get what you need. Then you have 2 other materials that you are subject to RNG to acquire, this is a hit or miss situation. You get lucky or you do not. The rub is that the recipes require more of the RNG material for light and medium armor wearers making their armor harder to craft. The cost of materials is subjective in view, for player “A” it is expensive while for player “B” it is not. That depends on if you know how to make money in this game or not. However the requirements in material cost is objective and is clearly skewed in favor of heavy armor wearers.

This doesn’t really make any sense. You can’t leave context out of the situation or you’ll come to the wrong conclusion. It’s like saying:

I have 100 pennies and 50 quarters. We have to leave dollar amounts out of the equation, it is objective that you have more pennies therefore the pennies are worth more.

The TP, useage, acquisition, supply and demand all play integral roles in the value of things. You can’t just arbitrarily ignore parts of the equation. Mithril only takes 2 per ingot because its demand is orders of magnitude times higher. I know people who buy 100,000 mithril ore PER DAY. Leather and Cloth does not have the same kind of demand, so it does not need the high volume deterministic sources. However you get blue/green gear from all aspects of play, most of which salvages into cloth and leather. This is a significant source. There are many other factors to consider. You can’t just single out one factor and pretend it gives any insight.

He wasn’t leaving out any context, all you did was add irrelevant “context”. The price of the materials is not important. All that OP is trying to point out is that it fundamentally doesn’t make sense to require more materials which are only available through RNG than materials which you can go find whenever you want. You can’t go out in GW2 and just find a leather node to harvest for your leather, you can’t find a thread node to harvest either. But you can find metal and wood nodes to harvest. By that logic alone, the refining recipes for metal and wood should require the same amount of base materials as refining recipes for leather and thread instead of requiring fewer base materials. That is the only context needed. Prices and demand are completely irrelevant because they don’t influence the base problem, which is just inconsistency.

OriOri.8724:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Dvious.8126:

Again, folks, lets leave the trading post out of it. Subjective vs Objective. The issue is, you have 4 main materials and 2 of which are acquired by harvesting. You go out, you search, you harvest and you get what you need. Then you have 2 other materials that you are subject to RNG to acquire, this is a hit or miss situation. You get lucky or you do not. The rub is that the recipes require more of the RNG material for light and medium armor wearers making their armor harder to craft. The cost of materials is subjective in view, for player “A” it is expensive while for player “B” it is not. That depends on if you know how to make money in this game or not. However the requirements in material cost is objective and is clearly skewed in favor of heavy armor wearers.

This doesn’t really make any sense. You can’t leave context out of the situation or you’ll come to the wrong conclusion. It’s like saying:

I have 100 pennies and 50 quarters. We have to leave dollar amounts out of the equation, it is objective that you have more pennies therefore the pennies are worth more.

The TP, useage, acquisition, supply and demand all play integral roles in the value of things. You can’t just arbitrarily ignore parts of the equation. Mithril only takes 2 per ingot because its demand is orders of magnitude times higher. I know people who buy 100,000 mithril ore PER DAY. Leather and Cloth does not have the same kind of demand, so it does not need the high volume deterministic sources. However you get blue/green gear from all aspects of play, most of which salvages into cloth and leather. This is a significant source. There are many other factors to consider. You can’t just single out one factor and pretend it gives any insight.

He wasn’t leaving out any context, all you did was add irrelevant “context”. The price of the materials is not important. All that OP is trying to point out is that it fundamentally doesn’t make sense to require more materials which are only available through RNG than materials which you can go find whenever you want. You can’t go out in GW2 and just find a leather node to harvest for your leather, you can’t find a thread node to harvest either. But you can find metal and wood nodes to harvest. By that logic alone, the refining recipes for metal and wood should require the same amount of base materials as refining recipes for leather and thread instead of requiring fewer base materials. That is the only context needed. Prices and demand are completely irrelevant because they don’t influence the base problem, which is just inconsistency.

No. Read the bolded part of their post. It really doesn’t have anything to do with the method of acquisition. Demand is very much relevant despite what you appear to believe.

I am surprised at how obtuse people are being. The OP never mentioned the TP in his post. He did point out that light armor recipes require more RNG-acquired materials than heavy armor. That’s it. It has nothing to do with TP prices. Who cares what the TP prices are? Anything that is acquired through RNG is way more expensive on the TP for one simple reason: it is harder to acquire. So…pretend there’s no TP. Then you have a situation in which it is more difficult to get the mats for light armor. That’s always been the case.

My personal issue is the exorbitant cost of making Trailblazer insignias which require gossamer, ’natch, and hardened leather squares. Gossamer and hardened leather is RNG.

For the Trailblazer inscription, for heavy armor, you need Orichalcum and Ancient wood <—- both of these are farmable.

So, ergo, it’s more difficult, and time consuming, to make the light armor runes than the heavy armor ones.

That’s it. No TP. Nada. Zilch.

To farm/salvage mats for light armor is more difficult than for heavy armor.

I could keep repeating myself, if it helps?

misterman.1530:

I am surprised at how obtuse people are being. The OP never mentioned the TP in his post. He did point out that light armor recipes require more RNG-acquired materials than heavy armor. That’s it. It has nothing to do with TP prices. Who cares what the TP prices are? Anything that is acquired through RNG is way more expensive on the TP for one simple reason: it is harder to acquire. So…pretend there’s no TP. Then you have a situation in which it is more difficult to get the mats for light armor. That’s always been the case.

My personal issue is the exorbitant cost of making Trailblazer insignias which require gossamer, ’natch, and hardened leather squares. Gossamer and hardened leather is RNG.

For the Trailblazer inscription, for heavy armor, you need Orichalcum and Ancient wood <—- both of these are farmable.

So, ergo, it’s more difficult, and time consuming, to make the light armor runes than the heavy armor ones.

That’s it. No TP. Nada. Zilch.

To farm/salvage mats for light armor is more difficult than for heavy armor.

I could keep repeating myself, if it helps?

It doesn’t matter if they specifically stated the TP or not. The TP is very much a part of this game so it cannot be ignored.

Oh, and refer to the part of your post that I bolded. Silk thread sells for about 1 silver while platinum ore sells for over 3 silver. One can be directly farmed from nodes while the other cannot. Why do you think that is?

Dvious.8126:

Lets try to ignore trading post prices for a moment and look at how these materials are acquired. The difference is between harvested materials and materials gained through RNG. The RNG materials are required more than the harvested materials, period. This makes it more advantageous to run a heavy armor toon than a light or medium armor profession. It is just easier overall to gear out the heavy. THAT is the design flaw that I am trying to bring to light. I could care less how much it costs on the trading post. For your average player just starting out that disparity in regard to difficulty of materials to obtain is huge. This game might be 3 years + old at this point but I would sincerely like to see it last another 3 years at least. And no I’m not spouting “It’s the end of the world!” but it is the kind of thing that can potentially chase away players once they figure it out. Especially if they do not know how to go about obtaining the things they need to being with.

My point is: it was cheaper for a long time to outfit medium-armor toons. And outfitting is something we do only a few times per L80 character (the vast majority of folks outfit maybe twice).

So, no, I don’t agree that is sufficient reason for ANet to change the status quo ‘soon’.

And no, I don’t agree that we can ignore the TP — the market reflects both the demand for mats and the difficulty in obtaining them. Further the TP is the single easiest way to obtain nearly anything you need in the game to outfit your characters. It’s very relevant to the discussion as to whether the disparity in sources is an issue that needs to be resolved.

Ayrilana.1396:

OriOri.8724:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Dvious.8126:

Again, folks, lets leave the trading post out of it. Subjective vs Objective. The issue is, you have 4 main materials and 2 of which are acquired by harvesting. You go out, you search, you harvest and you get what you need. Then you have 2 other materials that you are subject to RNG to acquire, this is a hit or miss situation. You get lucky or you do not. The rub is that the recipes require more of the RNG material for light and medium armor wearers making their armor harder to craft. The cost of materials is subjective in view, for player “A” it is expensive while for player “B” it is not. That depends on if you know how to make money in this game or not. However the requirements in material cost is objective and is clearly skewed in favor of heavy armor wearers.

This doesn’t really make any sense. You can’t leave context out of the situation or you’ll come to the wrong conclusion. It’s like saying:

I have 100 pennies and 50 quarters. We have to leave dollar amounts out of the equation, it is objective that you have more pennies therefore the pennies are worth more.

The TP, useage, acquisition, supply and demand all play integral roles in the value of things. You can’t just arbitrarily ignore parts of the equation. Mithril only takes 2 per ingot because its demand is orders of magnitude times higher. I know people who buy 100,000 mithril ore PER DAY. Leather and Cloth does not have the same kind of demand, so it does not need the high volume deterministic sources. However you get blue/green gear from all aspects of play, most of which salvages into cloth and leather. This is a significant source. There are many other factors to consider. You can’t just single out one factor and pretend it gives any insight.

He wasn’t leaving out any context, all you did was add irrelevant “context”. The price of the materials is not important. All that OP is trying to point out is that it fundamentally doesn’t make sense to require more materials which are only available through RNG than materials which you can go find whenever you want. You can’t go out in GW2 and just find a leather node to harvest for your leather, you can’t find a thread node to harvest either. But you can find metal and wood nodes to harvest. By that logic alone, the refining recipes for metal and wood should require the same amount of base materials as refining recipes for leather and thread instead of requiring fewer base materials. That is the only context needed. Prices and demand are completely irrelevant because they don’t influence the base problem, which is just inconsistency.

No. Read the bolded part of their post. It really doesn’t have anything to do with the method of acquisition. Demand is very much relevant despite what you appear to believe.

No, go reread the entire thread. The TP has nothing to do with the thread, despite how insistent you seem to be on derailing it. This isn’t a thread talking about prices, which is the only thing you are caught up on. This thread is only about the single fact that it fundamentally does not make sense for ascended refinement to require more materials that can only be gained through RNG than it requires materials that can reliably, if tediously, be farmed. That’s it. Price has literally nothing to do with it. The thread is only about the lack of logic in this decision. That is something that fundamentally does not make sense, and the TP has nothing to do with it.

And even if it did, by bringing it up and focusing on how the RNG materials cost more than the ones that can be farmed, that’s just another argument in favor of OP and having Anet take a new look at the refinement recipes and adjust the material cost down. Not only are you missing the point of the post, your arguments are supporting OP despite the fact that you are so clearly against his post.

OriOri.8724:

Ayrilana.1396:

OriOri.8724:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Dvious.8126:

Again, folks, lets leave the trading post out of it. Subjective vs Objective. The issue is, you have 4 main materials and 2 of which are acquired by harvesting. You go out, you search, you harvest and you get what you need. Then you have 2 other materials that you are subject to RNG to acquire, this is a hit or miss situation. You get lucky or you do not. The rub is that the recipes require more of the RNG material for light and medium armor wearers making their armor harder to craft. The cost of materials is subjective in view, for player “A” it is expensive while for player “B” it is not. That depends on if you know how to make money in this game or not. However the requirements in material cost is objective and is clearly skewed in favor of heavy armor wearers.

This doesn’t really make any sense. You can’t leave context out of the situation or you’ll come to the wrong conclusion. It’s like saying:

I have 100 pennies and 50 quarters. We have to leave dollar amounts out of the equation, it is objective that you have more pennies therefore the pennies are worth more.

The TP, useage, acquisition, supply and demand all play integral roles in the value of things. You can’t just arbitrarily ignore parts of the equation. Mithril only takes 2 per ingot because its demand is orders of magnitude times higher. I know people who buy 100,000 mithril ore PER DAY. Leather and Cloth does not have the same kind of demand, so it does not need the high volume deterministic sources. However you get blue/green gear from all aspects of play, most of which salvages into cloth and leather. This is a significant source. There are many other factors to consider. You can’t just single out one factor and pretend it gives any insight.

He wasn’t leaving out any context, all you did was add irrelevant “context”. The price of the materials is not important. All that OP is trying to point out is that it fundamentally doesn’t make sense to require more materials which are only available through RNG than materials which you can go find whenever you want. You can’t go out in GW2 and just find a leather node to harvest for your leather, you can’t find a thread node to harvest either. But you can find metal and wood nodes to harvest. By that logic alone, the refining recipes for metal and wood should require the same amount of base materials as refining recipes for leather and thread instead of requiring fewer base materials. That is the only context needed. Prices and demand are completely irrelevant because they don’t influence the base problem, which is just inconsistency.

No. Read the bolded part of their post. It really doesn’t have anything to do with the method of acquisition. Demand is very much relevant despite what you appear to believe.

No, go reread the entire thread. The TP has nothing to do with the thread, despite how insistent you seem to be on derailing it. This isn’t a thread talking about prices, which is the only thing you are caught up on. This thread is only about the single fact that it fundamentally does not make sense for ascended refinement to require more materials that can only be gained through RNG than it requires materials that can reliably, if tediously, be farmed. That’s it. Price has literally nothing to do with it. The thread is only about the lack of logic in this decision. That is something that fundamentally does not make sense, and the TP has nothing to do with it.

And even if it did, by bringing it up and focusing on how the RNG materials cost more than the ones that can be farmed, that’s just another argument in favor of OP and having Anet take a new look at the refinement recipes and adjust the material cost down. Not only are you missing the point of the post, your arguments are supporting OP despite the fact that you are so clearly against his post.

Once again, it’s based on demand. Ore and wood have generally lower amount because of how much they are used elsewhere such a with precursor crafting, forging for precursors, and so on. For the longest time, both silk and thick leather were at vendor price. The same disparities that exist now existed back then too.

Here’s another way for you to understand the role of demand. What happens to demand if the quantity needed for silk was reduce to 1/3 from what it is now? Demand would drop quite a lot. So yes, demand has VERY VERY MUCH to do with this.

I also want to point out that not once in this thread have I spoke about price other than to point out a fallacy in someone’s argument.

You probably were not around near the beginning of the game but I suggest researching why silk was changed to needing 3 scraps. There have been a thread or two about this with Anet stating their reasons for it. The changes were intentional to drive up demand so they wouldn’t just be vendor trash.

I am not supporting you or the OP. Both of you are looking at this from within a vacuum. There’s much more to it than such and such requires for T5 than such and such.

The disparity come from how silk was before ascended armor. Silk was a worthless item, their were 4 million piece of silk on TP and it barely sold above vendor price. In order to make silk more value A-net made to many changes to silk. They increase the amount of silk needed for each bolt of silk and made it used in all ascended armor. Due those changes it increased the price of silk by 30x within a month. So it was a overreaction that cause the disparity between ore/wood and silk/leather. The price of leather has increased because of the Chuka and Champawat and changes to how you make ascended items..

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I’m not sure anyone has established why they should be the same price? That seems like a personal preference thing.

Because they have the same/comparable consumption, and those consumptions of resources are largely controlled by Anet through the content they’ve released.

Elonian is used for not only armor, but also guild halls, and is highly anticipated to be used in legendary armor. It is also used in the latest legendary shortbow. Therefore its demand is higher than the other materials, thus its price is also higher. They can not and should not adjust the prices/drop rates of materials every time the demand for that item changes. It is not only an unreasonable time commitment, but also bad for the economy. ’

Damask and Deldrimor Steel are also going to be used in Legendary Armor. Sure, there’s a bit of a swell from the Shortbow (Which also hit Wood), but all three Armor materials should be hit by Legendary Armor (I’m not so sure about Guild Halls)

Its hard to know the amount of supply coming and going through the market at any given time, but looking at the price history it seems fairly stable until a patch increased its demand. Then it was stable at that new price until another patch/announcement increased the demand again. This tells me that supply and demand are well balanced and the price stablizes very quickly when new demand is added. As demand trails off (no new raids, no new legendary weapons) and supply increases (influx of casual players with LS S3) the price will fall back down on its own.

And those casual players will also likely start consuming the resources as well.

Sartharina.3542:

Because they have the same/comparable consumption, and those consumptions of resources are largely controlled by Anet through the content they’ve released.

They’re not comparable. That’s the thing. Or could you elaborate on exactly why you consider them comparable?

I am not sure how much ‘RNG’ there is involved in obtaining these mats that aren’t from gathering nodes, considering how many times one hears people lamenting over receiving ‘two blues and a green’.

Unless I purposely avoid any content except gathering, I always end up with more things to salvage than not.

Regardless, the discrepancies in the amounts of mats needed in recipes are a direct result of market gluts and dearths. It’s never been about equality, nor should it be. A healthy economy benefits us all.

We seem to be arguing about whether it’s right that metal armour requires less metal than leather armour, in a fantasy game. Because it doesn’t makes sense that my leather armour takes 4 leather squares which are made up of 3 leather patches when my metal armour only takes 2 metals plates made from 2 metal ore. Right?

Well ignoring all the ridiculousness of even discussing this.. my leather armour wearer says it’s to protect her assets. She tried wearing some leather armour with less mats used and ended up with an arrow to the knee and was in hospital for 2 weeks. For her sake, please maintain the current standard of gear.

As for “you can farm ancient wood”.. well yes you can, if you are 80. Honestly these threads about different level mats all have this level 80 focus. If you are level 50 you can’t harvest ancient wood and ori, you are forced to farm leather and seasoned wood and iron. FORCED I tell ya.

General Health.9678:

As for “you can farm ancient wood”.. well yes you can, if you are 80. Honestly these threads about different level mats all have this level 80 focus. If you are level 50 you can’t harvest ancient wood and ori, you are forced to farm leather and seasoned wood and iron. FORCED I tell ya.

So? There’s no ascended armor for levels below 80, so it’s rather obvious that any thread about it and ascended mats for it will assume you’re level-maxed.

(also, you can farm ancient wood or ori at level 1. You just need infinite tools for it)

Again, folks are getting sidetracked. I’ll say it again, this has nothing to do with the trading post. I could care less how much stuff costs on the TP. Trading post costs are a subjective view “I can pretty much buy whatever I need” vs “I am so broke” making TP costs an opinion. The rub is that a player almost has to buy both leather and cloth if they want to make anything that requires any real quantity of either. If I need to make something that requires wood or ore, I go out and harvest it, no problem. However, if I need to make something that requires cloth or leather, I go out and farm for gear drops and then pray that I get what I need from salvaging said drops subject to RNG. That is called a disparity, something not equal. When you get all of those lovely crafting materials that you spent a couple of hours hunting down back to a crafting station and you look at the material costs (numbers needed) for recipes and not TP costs, you have to put your objectivity (objective viewpoints are based on observation, not opinion) hat on and ignore what things cost on the trading post. The material costs (numbers needed within recipes) of harvested materials vs salvaged materials is skewed in favor of the harvested materials. What this means is that_this makes crafting gear for a heavy armor character more advantageous, less time consuming, than crafting gear for a light OR medium armor character._This disparity becomes glaringly obvious when you get into crafting ascended materials. Before you respond, please take a moment to go and look at materials needed in general for heavy armor (armorsmith) versus light (tailor) OR medium (leatherworker) armor.

Dvious.8126:

Again, folks are getting sidetracked. I’ll say it again, this has nothing to do with the trading post. I could care less how much stuff costs on the TP.

Again, you can’t just decide to ignore a major mechanic in looking at the supply. The TP is the tool that allows people who enjoy farming to provide high-demand items to those who hate grinding out their own. The TP, regardless of whether you use it, provides with the best measure of in-game supply and in-game demand, because most people use it.

There’s no fundamental reason why a game has to ensure that all sources for all comparable mats have to be identical. To me, that would be like saying that all profs have to do identical damage or that an Ele’s attunements all be variations of the same mechanic. To me, it’s more interesting that GW2 that crafting and the economy in general are more diverse.

While true with mats, there shouldn’t be a financial penalty for playing one profession over another when it comes to crafting Ascended armor. Now they’ve tried to fix that by making the disparity less between the three weights. However heavy will always have an advantage due to the fact those mats are straight up gathering nodes.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

misterman.1530:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Because those material were worthless previously, and thus said worth (or lack thereof) created a glut.

How does that answer the OP’s question? He was asking why there is such a disparity between recipes using salvaged materials, which are rarer due to RNG, versus ones using gathered materials which have a 100% guaranteed drop rate at the right node/tree/plant.

Regardless of the TP glut, that doesn’t excuse the bad design in recipe materials.

People keep stating that the disparity in sources & required amounts (resulting in disparity in market prices) is “bad design,” without explaining why. There’s no reason, other than a personal preference for things to be ‘even’ that those things should be comparable.

And over time, due to changing demands (sometimes due ANet’s influence, sometimes not), the prices have varied. Leather is especially high now, but it used to be vendor price for virtually every tier. Cloth was similarly cheap (although not at all tiers). And mithril, despite its many other uses, was also cheap until recently.

I’m not against ANet deciding to intervene — I just don’t agree that the current design is inherently bad because it’s uneven nor do I agree that there’s any urgency in adjusting sources/requirements. Far better for ANet to approach the situation cautiously, lest we end up with a situation that is comparable to what we have now.

Thing is, their method shows poor surface validity, and the way ANet tends to manipulate the economy feels like dropping a nuke where a scalpel is more appropriate.

• Make drastic change that spikes up market values (soft wood, silk, now leather)
• Smugly ignore complaints from crafters about needing 3x-10x as many materials as before
• Wait for market to somewhat correct itself
• Claim market success

I’m still trying to figure out why I need 30 of a T6 material that cannot be reliably farmed to make a patch (not even the entire armor), because someone decided that inflicting a double-whammy of usage (again) was somehow a good idea.

I do appreciate that leather got a better use, but, once again, ANet over-reacted to the situation.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Dvious.8126:

Again, folks are getting sidetracked. I’ll say it again, this has nothing to do with the trading post. I could care less how much stuff costs on the TP.

Again, you can’t just decide to ignore a major mechanic in looking at the supply. The TP is the tool that allows people who enjoy farming to provide high-demand items to those who hate grinding out their own. The TP, regardless of whether you use it, provides with the best measure of in-game supply and in-game demand, because most people use it.

There’s no fundamental reason why a game has to ensure that all sources for all comparable mats have to be identical. To me, that would be like saying that all profs have to do identical damage or that an Ele’s attunements all be variations of the same mechanic. To me, it’s more interesting that GW2 that crafting and the economy in general are more diverse.

Please take the time to look up the definitions of subjective and objective and then apply them to trading post costs. I’ve said it already, the cost of an item is subjective. For some players 100gold is expensive and for others, spending 100g is nothing. That is a subjective topic based on opinion. If you remove the TP from the equation which I’ve been attempting to do since I opened this topic, you come down to difficulty to acquire the materials versus materials needed within recipes. An objective view is based on facts and not opinion.

On a sidenote, please take a moment to try and understand how economics in general work. If Anet were to raise the number of materials needed for the harvested ore/wood within recipes then the price of ore/wood should rise since more quantity is needed. On the flipside if Anet were to lower the number of materials needed from the salvaged cloth/leather then the price of cloth/leather should lower since less quantity is needed.

Your analogy of every profession doing comparable dps is a little off since dps is something that is based on gear/build/player with variables in place that would make that a nightmare. For arguments sake, lets say you have 100 people, playing whatever profession that they enjoy and no matter what build they use they all do the same damage regardless of playstyle. Now, remove the trading post, set them to level 80 and tell them to build a set of ascended armor. Who do you think is going to get their armor sets crafted first? Guardian, Revenant and Warrior of course. Less of their of materials needed is based on RNG.

Now, here is my opinion. After a while within the above scenario do you think that a good chunk of these players would gravitate toward a heavy armor wearer? I do. That thought does not bode well for overall game health or longevity. The options for building a character up should be the same for everyone and for the most part it is with the exception of crafting gear. How you play that character and what role you play as (dps, support, tank) is based on the individual and chosen profession.

Behellagh.1468:

While true with mats, there shouldn’t be a financial penalty for playing one profession over another when it comes to crafting Ascended armor. Now they’ve tried to fix that by making the disparity less between the three weights. However heavy will always have an advantage due to the fact those mats are straight up gathering nodes.

This right here. Ty

People wanted cloths and leathers harvest nodes for years, yet Anet never delivered.

Lévis.5489:

People wanted cloths and leathers harvest nodes for years, yet Anet never delivered.

Yeah… it’s almost as if they have more information about the game’s economy and systems than us laymen players to make such decisions. Weird. o.O

~EW

Dvious.8126:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Dvious.8126:

Again, folks are getting sidetracked. I’ll say it again, this has nothing to do with the trading post. I could care less how much stuff costs on the TP.

Again, you can’t just decide to ignore a major mechanic in looking at the supply. The TP is the tool that allows people who enjoy farming to provide high-demand items to those who hate grinding out their own. The TP, regardless of whether you use it, provides with the best measure of in-game supply and in-game demand, because most people use it.

There’s no fundamental reason why a game has to ensure that all sources for all comparable mats have to be identical. To me, that would be like saying that all profs have to do identical damage or that an Ele’s attunements all be variations of the same mechanic. To me, it’s more interesting that GW2 that crafting and the economy in general are more diverse.

Please take the time to look up the definitions of subjective and objective and then apply them to trading post costs. I’ve said it already, the cost of an item is subjective. For some players 100gold is expensive and for others, spending 100g is nothing. That is a subjective topic based on opinion. If you remove the TP from the equation which I’ve been attempting to do since I opened this topic, you come down to difficulty to acquire the materials versus materials needed within recipes. An objective view is based on facts and not opinion.

On a sidenote, please take a moment to try and understand how economics in general work. If Anet were to raise the number of materials needed for the harvested ore/wood within recipes then the price of ore/wood should rise since more quantity is needed. On the flipside if Anet were to lower the number of materials needed from the salvaged cloth/leather then the price of cloth/leather should lower since less quantity is needed.

Your analogy of every profession doing comparable dps is a little off since dps is something that is based on gear/build/player with variables in place that would make that a nightmare. For arguments sake, lets say you have 100 people, playing whatever profession that they enjoy and no matter what build they use they all do the same damage regardless of playstyle. Now, remove the trading post, set them to level 80 and tell them to build a set of ascended armor. Who do you think is going to get their armor sets crafted first? Guardian, Revenant and Warrior of course. Less of their of materials needed is based on RNG.

Now, here is my opinion. After a while within the above scenario do you think that a good chunk of these players would gravitate toward a heavy armor wearer? I do. That thought does not bode well for overall game health or longevity. The options for building a character up should be the same for everyone and for the most part it is with the exception of crafting gear. How you play that character and what role you play as (dps, support, tank) is based on the individual and chosen profession.

The TP is a fact, it’s not subjective, no matter how much you argue otherwise.

Also, I don’t understand your point about reading up on economics — all you did was state the most basic rule of supply & demand. Clearly, if ANet changes the sinks and faucets, those change and so will the prices on the TP.

You seem to keep implying that there’s some specific price range that is objective, fair, or even fundamental to any given item. There isn’t, not in any economy. Economies are made up of people, not just the items traded. The values depend on the human needs and wants, of the difficulty in acquiring the goods and services, and of trading them from the suppliers to the consumers.

So regardless of whether any specific analogy is poor or not, the point remains the same: there’s no fundamental reason why all recipes have to use identical ratios for materials; there’s no reason why sources have to be exactly comparable. Those are preferences for a certain style of game. GW2 isn’t that sort of game, not now and not in the past.

I’m not against ANet making adjustments. I am against asking them to do so because of an imagined importance to any perceived disparity.

In the meantime, regardless of ANet’s decisions or our opinions, I’ll continue to do what I’ve done in every game I’ve played: I spend the most time doing the content I like, sell off the stuff I can’t (or don’t need to) use and use that to fund the stuff I want. I don’t like it when the stuff I want costs more, but neither am I going to wait for the game company to adjust things just to make it more affordable.

Dvious.8126:

Why do ascended crafting materials have disparate material costs? Let me clarify….why do recipes require 2 ore and 2-3 wood versus 3 cloth and 4 leather when the cloth and leather are harder to acquire than the ore and wood? Wood and ore are harvested materials, easy enough to acquire if you spend the time in maps harvesting, while cloth and leather are salvaged materials gained from Random Number Generator (RNG). Why would you make the recipe material cost higher for the material that is harder to get? Especially when that effects 6 out of 9 of your professions with regard to ascended armor crafting. It looks like you are promoting your 3 heavy armor professions over your 3 light and 3 medium armor professions since the material cost is so much lower to create a set of heavy armor. Why not standardize those costs, make them the same across the board or even switch those material costs? Wouldn’t that make more sense?

EXAMPLES – these are the base requirements for ascended gear materials. The second step for each piece seems to be nearly the same across the board in their costs. The costs become even more out of whack once you try to actually create the armor pieces though. It requires even more cloth and leather to actually make a light or medium armor piece.

Spool of Silk Weaving Thread
100 Bolts of Silk = 300 scraps of silk = RNG
1 Glob of Ectoplasm
25 Spools of Gossamer Thread

Spool of Thick Elonian Cord
50 Cured Thick Leather Squares = 200 Thick Leather Sections = RNG
1 Glob of Ectoplasm
10 Thermocatalytic Reagents

Cloth and Leather are salvaged by destroying loot drops from RNG

Lump of Mithrillium
50 Mithril Ingots = 100 Mithril Ore = Harvested
1 Glob of Ectoplasm
10 Thermocatalytic Reagents

Glob of Elder Spirit Residue
50 Elder Wood Planks = 150 Elder Wood Logs = Harvested
1 Glob of Ectoplasm
10 Thermocatalytic Reagents

Wood and Ore are harvested from nodes on open world maps

The advantage when gearing out a character clearly sits in the heavy armor wearers lap. Before I get some naysayer who just wants to argue, yes I’ve made full suits of ascended gear for each armor type and have kept track of the costs to do so. I just thought it worth a comment here due to the clear inequality between professions vs cost to equip.

EXAMPLE – using helm slot material requirements. All insignia for ascended armor require a standard 3 Bolts of Damask and 3 Elonian Leather Squares.

Heavy Helm
2 Bolts of Damask = Salvaged RNG
*1 Deldrimor Steel Ingot = Harvested

Medium Helm
2 Bolts of Damask = Salvaged RNG
1 Elonian Leather Square = Salvaged RNG

Light Helm
2 Bolts of Damask = Salvaged RNG
1 Elonian Leather Square = Salvaged RNG

(*)That one harvested material adds up when you think about it being similar for all 6 wear locations making Deldrimor Steel Ingots FAR easier to acquire through harvesting than cloth or leather through RNG. This makes heavy armor wearers have a clear advantage.

Forget about QQing about mats, fractals is raining ascended why craft when you can complete your set by doing fractals.

WingLegacy.7159:

Forget about QQing about mats, fractals is raining ascended why craft when you can complete your set by doing fractals.

• To do T4 fracts, you need ascended gear, so that’s out for those without a first set.
• I do a lot of T4 fractals and between all the members of my group, we gain the wherewithal to craft ascended faster doing other things outside of fractals. Oh the T7 mats (and rare ascended loot boxes) help; they just aren’t enough to reliably outfit any of us individually.

In other words, I’m sympathetic to the frustration people are having. I just don’t agree it’s something that requires ANet’s urgent intervention.

Hard numbers. Harvested materials are required less than the RNG acquired materials. This is called an objective view. There is no opinion, only information based on observation.
The trading post costs of these materials is subjective and based on opinion. Player A gets 1000 gold a week, player A probably does not mind how much this stuff costs on the trading post. Player B get 50 gold a week, player B probably does not enjoy the prices on quite a few things on the trading post. Trading post prices also fluctuate. This makes the trading post costs a subjective view, based on opinion and differ from player to player. Pretty basic stuff.

Lump of Mithrillium
50 mithril ingots = 100 mithril ore, harvested

Glob of Elder Spirit Residue
50 elder wood planks = 150 elder wood logs, harvested

Spool of Silk Weaving Thread
100 bolts of silk = 300 silk scraps, RNG

Spool of Thick Elonian Cord
50 Thick Leather Squares = 200 thick leather sections, RNG

Funny how more of the RNG materials are needed than the harvested materials for two thirds (that’s 6 out of 9) of the professions. This brings me back to my original point of that this makes it look like Anet is trying to push heavy armor professions over light and medium.

For pete’s sake, one would think one rarely gets a blue or green drop with all this talk of RNG for mats.

I can gather loot, and thus, leather and cloth, just as fast (if not faster) as I can run around maps and look for gathering nodes.

RNG, what a joke!

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

For pete’s sake, one would think one rarely gets a blue or green drop with all this talk of RNG for mats.

I can gather loot, and thus, leather and cloth, just as fast (if not faster) as I can run around maps and look for gathering nodes.

RNG, what a joke!

You have a harder time gathering wood and metal than cloth? Especially non t5-6 cloth?

This fish story smells funny and I ain’t buy’n it…

Dvious.8126:

Hard numbers. Harvested materials are required less than the RNG acquired materials. This is called an objective view. There is no opinion, only information based on observation.
The trading post costs of these materials is subjective and based on opinion. Player A gets 1000 gold a week, player A probably does not mind how much this stuff costs on the trading post. Player B get 50 gold a week, player B probably does not enjoy the prices on quite a few things on the trading post. Trading post prices also fluctuate. This makes the trading post costs a subjective view, based on opinion and differ from player to player. Pretty basic stuff.

Lump of Mithrillium
50 mithril ingots = 100 mithril ore, harvested

Glob of Elder Spirit Residue
50 elder wood planks = 150 elder wood logs, harvested

Spool of Silk Weaving Thread
100 bolts of silk = 300 silk scraps, RNG

Spool of Thick Elonian Cord
50 Thick Leather Squares = 200 thick leather sections, RNG

Funny how more of the RNG materials are needed than the harvested materials for two thirds (that’s 6 out of 9) of the professions. This brings me back to my original point of that this makes it look like Anet is trying to push heavy armor professions over light and medium.

And you’re completely ignoring the demand side of things. There are far more things that demand ore than cloth and leather. This was pretty obvious before ascended armor when both silk and thick leather traded at vendor prices.

Substance E.4852:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

For pete’s sake, one would think one rarely gets a blue or green drop with all this talk of RNG for mats.

I can gather loot, and thus, leather and cloth, just as fast (if not faster) as I can run around maps and look for gathering nodes.

RNG, what a joke!

You have a harder time gathering wood and metal than cloth? Especially non t5-6 cloth?

This fish story smells funny and I ain’t buy’n it…

I was responding to the previous post that listed Silk, and Thick Leather Squares…mats needed for Ascended crafting. If you are having difficulties obtaining these mats, I feel sorry.

Dvious.8126:

Hard numbers. Harvested materials are required less than the RNG acquired materials. This is called an objective view. There is no opinion, only information based on observation.
The trading post costs of these materials is subjective and based on opinion. Player A gets 1000 gold a week, player A probably does not mind how much this stuff costs on the trading post. Player B get 50 gold a week, player B probably does not enjoy the prices on quite a few things on the trading post. Trading post prices also fluctuate. This makes the trading post costs a subjective view, based on opinion and differ from player to player. Pretty basic stuff.

The problem with your “pretty basic stuff” is that it’s your opinion. You’re assuming that everyone agrees that farming ore & logs from nodes is worth their time; that’s a subjective point of view. That subjectivity is part of the reason that iron ore remains higher priced on the TP than mithril — more people are willing to buy it on the TP than are interested in farming it, even though there are plenty of quick, simple, and lucrative farming routes.

I really wish you’d stop claiming that we can ignore the TP in these discussions — it is distracting from some of the points that might change people’s views.

The “pretty basic stuff” is that there’s no fundamental reason why material sources and sinks need be the same, regardless of tier or type. While it’s true that simple rules in crafting are always easier for people to understand, it also makes for a duller and less dynamic economic system (and by “economic system”, I include the “marketplace” you want to ignore, the crafting system that you want to be “even”, and the sinks and faucets for materials).

The one point you mentioned above that might be worth debating is whether there is a point at which too big a difference between light, medium, and heavy armor costs (at one or more tiers) might discourage people from choosing certain professions. I’m not at all convinced that this is a likely scenario and I’d be interested if you can make a case for the circumstances in which that would or ought to be a concern.

tl;dr the only ‘fact’ is that materials are known to have different sinks and faucets; everything else about how the community deals with them is subjective — the TP is just as relevant a tool as farming and can’t be dismissed because it’s not some people’s preferred source.

Ayrilana.1396:

And you’re completely ignoring the demand side of things. There are far more things that demand ore than cloth and leather.

Which is why of all the 4 mats ore is the one i have always most of
…oh wait.

Can we talk about how a level 80 can reliably get every tier of metal and wood by hitting the right nodes but will likely only get t5/t6 from salvaging? You can effectivelly farm one ascended Ingot or Plank easily in a short time, but not a ascended Bolt or Leather Square, for those you will most likely need the TP.

I just love how they keep bringing the trading post back into it. Repeatedly. Even after I have tried to point out and explain how trading post prices are a subjective topic. It’s almost as if they have a stake in trading post prices and it would break their little monopolies to have the prices even out for all four crafting material types. Side note, no, I do not have any issue acquiring these materials, nor an issue acquiring the gold to buy them if I choose. Some people need to read before they comment. I’m more worried about those players who do not know how to make gold whenever they want and that the difficulty to acquire some of these materials is an unnecessary wall/obstacle for inexperienced players. I swear from quite a few of these comments you would think some players would rather see this game go belly-up instead of stick around for years to come. Most of these responses are purely argumentative based on “Oh no! Change! I can’t let that happen!”. I love a good debate but do not try to shoot down someone else’s thoughts/ideas without a reasoned argument, it makes you look silly. It is like one of “those” people who do not know how to speak effectively and the reason they give another person for doing something is simply “because”. Childish.
Throughout this post I’ve repeatedly stated facts and not opinion. Here’s the difference, fact – the sky is blue vs opinion – it is warm outside. The first is a fact, stating something that just is, you as a player, can not change it (since this is a game, the developers can turn the sky yellow if they want). The second is an opinion since 75degress out is hot for some while it may be cool for others. Now let’s apply that to the current train of thought fact – more RNG materials are required than harvested materials for ascended armor vs opinion – leather costs too much on the trading post. Since I’ve already posted the numbers above and you can verify them yourselves, those numbers needed to craft the ascended armor are a fact, I did not make them up, I did not tweak them or flavor them in favor of my observations. The numbers skew in favor of heavy ascended armor being easier to craft, this is a fact. Now material cost on the trading post is an opinion since what is expensive for you may not be expensive for me, it changes from player to player making it an opinion based topic. Let’s try to leave the opinion out of it since more often than not, opinion is not what gets things changed but rather reasoned arguments do.

Now this is my opinion and here is my reasoned argument for said opinion. My objective here is to bring this to the attention of Anet getting them to either raise the number of harvested materials (ore/wood) required for heavy armor or lower the RNG materials (cloth/leather) required for light/medium armor (believe me I would much prefer the latter) balancing out the materials needed for all three armor types (light/medium/heavy). This would put all nine professions on even footing with regard to crafting their ascended armor removing the advantage from heavy armor wearers.

No. The trading post is very much one of the reasons for the disparity along with the uses for each material. All that you have done is create a objective vs subjective argument and lumped the TP as subjective simply because it’s easier for you to argue against that way.

Ambient Supply Rate refers to the amount of material that is generated by players who are simply playing the game (i.e. salvage, bags, mob drops, map rewards, etc.).

Leather and Cloth both have SUBSTANTIALLY higher Ambient Supply Rates than Wood and Ore do, which means that all players are generating Leather and Cloth at all times, regardless of if they need or want to while Wood and Ore are typically only produced when people intentionally go node farming.

It is because the materials are supplied differently that they are also refined differently.

Dvious.8126:

I just love how they keep bringing the trading post back into it. Repeatedly. Even after I have tried to point out and explain how trading post prices are a subjective topic.

I just love how you keep trying to ignore the trading post. Repeatedly. Even after its been pointed out to you how the TP isn’t any more “subjective” than any other measure of supply. Or demand.

Again, I’d recommend that you change tactics and focus instead on what you think the actual issue is. What is it about a numerical disparity (across crafting material types and tiers) that you think is bad for the game? Regardless of whether you are correct about the subjectivity of the TP being important, I am sure you’ll get more traction by starting there.

Put another way, whatever the point was in the OP has completely gotten sidetracked by something that isn’t part of the core concern.

mtpelion.4562:

Leather and Cloth both have SUBSTANTIALLY higher Ambient Supply Rates than Wood and Ore do, which means that all players are generating Leather and Cloth at all times, regardless of if they need or want to while Wood and Ore are typically only produced when people intentionally go node farming.

Because it seems you didn’t know that, salvaging drops gives you ore and wood as well. Wood is likely the lowest of all 4, but ore is generated at a similar rate to cloth and leather. And it can be harvested.