Do Hard and Soft Crowd Control need a buff?
No.
Good crowd control and good PvP are never going to exist together. If CC works, then they can shut down other players’ ability to fight or even defend themselves, allowing players to kill just about anyone at whim. If CC does not work, then anyone built to use CC as their main ability will find themselves mostly powerless in PvP. SOMEONE is going to lose here, there’s no good way around it.
People know I’m a huge CoH fan, but I’ll state flat out that PvP in CoH sucked, and this is a large part of why. Their attempts to balance these kinds of things was off from the very start, and it just got worse over time. Eventually, they pretty much just abandoned attempts to balance PvP, only fixing the occasional PvP bug when it popped up.
If you do want to balance CC in PvP, I’d suggest that anything that helps you to shrug off CC effects should carry some other kind of negative. That way, even if they can resist it or make themselves practically immune to it, there’s still a reason to keep throwing the CC abilities at them. Make them accept that downside as the cost of being able to move and fight. I’m not sure what that downside should be, though.
delicate, brick-like subtlety.
There’s plenty of stunbreaks and blocks/ evades to fight back cc in pvp. CC is decent as it is there.
The problem is with pve and the defiance mechanic.
In PvP? Hell no that just makes even more people quit than already have.
Everytime I get Basilisked in WvW by a perma invis thief I wanna throw both my kitten monitors through the Window….
.
In PvE… hell yes CC needs a buff b/c it’s balanced 100% around sPvP which was a massive mistake. Go attempt the Balthazar escort right now and tell me with a straight face that your meager 2 second stun is enough to keep the Pact alive versus Vet Subjugators. …and against any Champions… LOLZ …yeah have fun peeling 30 stacks off first.
(edited by ilr.9675)
Just to let you all know, I am mainly talking about are two schools of Crowd Control: Hard and Soft Crowd Controls.
Hard CCs are usually Stuns, Knockdown, Fears or anything that Stability is immune from once active
vs
Soft CCs such as Cripples, Frost Slows, Immobilize or anything that effect a player with a Stability buff on.
CC in most games are about thinning the mob herd (keeping one or more temporarily out of the fight while taking down the rest) as an alternative to the DPS race.
In GW2, CC are the MOBA equivalent of a fighting game combo breaker or air juggling setup.
Without effective PVE CC and aggro management, the game is in essence a DPS race. You either drop the mobs or the mobs drop you.
to make CC effective in PVE, either the effect duration need to be multiplied by 10, or the cooldowns need to be divided by 10. But ANet wants to keep PVE and PVP as similar as possible, as their thinking is that PVE is the warmup session for PVP. Esports is the name of the game, and those of us that only do PVE are simply sucking down bandwidth and costing ANet money…
(edited by digiowl.9620)
I come from the WvW side of the fence where stability and condition removal is so abused that the meta is just awful with three 40+ man groups running right over CC affects trying to bit each other on the tail.
In Tpvp, I can understand the need to keep CC under control, but in WvW and PvE (It seems) that CCs are just too underpowered especially Soft CC.
So I happen to play WvW a lot as well and I am somewhat torn on this. I got into this discussion a bit on the warrior forums where there were complaints or (legitimate) concerns about the hammer’s ability to shut down whole groups of people. While I do agree that hard CC can be irritating I have come to accept the trying to balance around WvW in this respect could do more damage then good. Really on such a large scale with so many iterations of group encounters and relative group sizes the game mode would have to be dumbed down to such a degree in WvW that everyone would end up having the same skills. Or very set predefined builds that allowed no deviation. Much like the old costume brawls. I really wouldn’t want to see that. At least not for WvW.
Also as much as condition removal is abused so is condition application. I cant step outside spawn without contracting 20 hooley booley necro viruses it seems.
Mr Pin,
From my prospective in WvW, I find Hard CCs to be fine only because I have stability up 99% of the time and if I do get stunned, I have defensive utilities Lemongrass poultry soup, Superior Runes of Melandru on so the effect doesn’t even last long and not including 3k armor and 21k Health. Also soft CCs like cripple, Immobilize and slow just roll right off the second it is on me. I feel in large scale battles in WvW really come down to how many Hammer/shout Guardians you have and how many Staff Elementalists you have to heal, boon, cleanse and provide perma stability to the group; whereas, many of the other professions are just add-on with little to no purpose other than to support those 2 professions.
Yes, but that’s kind of my point. In large numbers the conditions become more and more effective. Thus we see the raise or abuse of things like melandru runes and Lemongrass poultry. Imagine the people not running those things and then dropping even harsher penalties on them. The current WvW meta punishes build diversity and ultimately I’d like to see that change. I just cant see that coming about through buffed CC’s.
From the stand point of someone who works in games I’ve never liked stuns that lock players out of action. (for more then a second and a half which is my default animation time when I do a stun state) It breaks resonance as the game simply plays itself. Once the removed from gameplay the player quickly loses interest. After all they weren’t really defeated; they were cheated. They literally could do nothing but sit and watch themselves die. Its a frustrating experience for most players and I feel that this game already skirts dangerously close to that on occasion.