Guild Wars 2

I have been making “Transmutation Charge Runs” of the various cities, and it dawned on me that I don’t think I’ve seen a Norn jail.

• The Humans have a jail in Divinity’s Reach in the basement of the Seraph Headquarters.

• The Sylvari of the Grove keep prisoners in the giant plant cages of the Nightshade Garden.

• The Asura detain wrongdoers in the bowels of Rata Sum.

• The Charr have a stockade immediately inside the entrance to the Imperator’s Core in the Black Citadel.

Of all the races, I would think the Norn more than any other would at least need someplace to “sleep it off”. Has anyone seen a Norn jail?

Norn settle there problems with fists and beer.

Not to my knowledge.
Is there a ‘take no prisoners’ policy in effect for extreme cases, with a heavy-handed slap/punch for lighter offences?
Or are they simply branded unable to buy beer at any Norn establishment?

As far I am aware they settle their problems and tend to “banish” those from Hoelbrak if they deem necessary. IF you read the novels, Eir is actually banished from Hoelbrak but Knut Whitebear in “Edge of Destiny”.

Hell, I just don’t get Norn. Why are sons of svanir still welcome in Hoelbrak? We kill sons of svanir constantly and they are fighting and killing everyone they can. Norn are just dumb.

Norn police themselves and generally whatever happens, happens. Causing a ruckus, stealing and breaking stuff like it’s the end of the world?

If the owner of said establishment deems you a threat that they have need to take you out to pasture, that’s just how it is.

Said dead Joe is made an example of this individuals law. Around this fellow, behave yourself, or else.

Knut Whitebear is essentially a community moderator for the most egregious of things, and even these scenarios tend to be dealt with on a one to one basis if the general Sons of Svanir presence is any indication.

Knut does seem to respect other races diplomacy protocols and generally, you’re supposed to behave yourself around really important people… or else you have to answer to Knut Whitebear and his clan.

And he’s a big burly man that just might kick your kitten, embarrass, shame you, and throw you out into the cold.

As anarchist as it sounds, it seems to work out because generally norn are half decent people overall and the gross exceptions tend to be self-correcting problems when they collide with the rest of their society.

Most of the Sons of Svanir in Hoelbrak somehow manage to keep themselves in check… I’d wager that’s not forthcoming from the goodness of their heart.

So if you get too rowdy there’s no place where they can “put you on ice” for awhile until you “cool off”?

Hamfast.8719:

So if you get too rowdy there’s no place where they can “put you on ice” for awhile until you “cool off”?

They can toss you out into the snow I guess. Maybe knock you out cold? You don’t have to go home, but you can’t stay here and wreck my kitten or ruin my business.

Hell, the other norn patrons might contribute to the effort. Quit ruining everyone’s good time because you’re a ten-keg chump!

Hamfast.8719:

So if you get too rowdy there’s no place where they can “put you on ice” for awhile until you “cool off”?

puns are strong with this one

Nyx.7342:

Hamfast.8719:

So if you get too rowdy there’s no place where they can “put you on ice” for awhile until you “cool off”?

puns are strong with this one

There’s snow doubt. What an ice thing to say! But don’t think that makes me some kind of flake.

Nope, not really as the only punishment you get for going too far in disturbing the peace is getting kicked out of Hoelbrak for a period of time.

Norn are a lot more independently minded than the other races. Simply the idea of having a permanent settlement with established rules is relatively new to them: in GW1 it was all independent homesteads run by one person and inhabited by whoever wanted to (and was allowed to) live near them. The entire norn storyline revolved around Ogden (and to a lesser extent the player character) trying to get to grips with the idea that they had no leaders or organised government and each norn would decide for themselves what they wanted to do.

As I understand it they judge each individual based on their own actions, not the actions of a group they’re part of. Well, many norn are of the opinion that all Sons of Svanir are idiots for joining, but even so. The ones in Hoelbrak presumably haven’t caused enough trouble to need removing from society, although they may be on thin ice (pun intended). They’re also more likely to take the approach that your actions are your choice and you are free to make whatever choice you like, just not here where it’s a problem for other norn.

And since Hoelbraks authority only extends to the city and maybe a little way outside (like the starting area of Wayfarer Foothills) they’re more likely to banish them than lock them up.

That was actually a relatively common punishment throughout human history, until it got to be difficult because the area outside your city or nation wasn’t simply “away”, it was other cities and nations who you had diplomatic relations with and who didn’t want all your criminals dumped on them.

You know, one of the main “punishments” you recieve hen put in jail, is that you’re not able to actively and freely be part o the society anymore. This is something that can make humans in the long run go crazy.
but the Norn don’t have such a strict bond to a society in my interpretation. they have loser or closer bond that heavily depend on personal relationships and personal achievements and less on ritualised and codified laws and social bounds and rules.
they basically a group of individualistic creatures that group up to have better chances in certain situations, but they as a whole, have less of a “pack- mentality” than humans or charr, as I perceive it.
Perhaps like a group of bears that meet for mating and salmon spawning season and go their individual ways afterwards again.
I also think that Hoelbrak is very unusual for Norn cuture because of that.
The homes that you find outside of hoelbrak are also mostly just one house of one family and their guests and not a village with several families and guests.

I think it is more likely for a Norn to perform a personal act of revenge and punch or even kill the “criminal” than actually them locking the other up.
If you had a jail , you’d have to provide that Norn, that doesn’t hunt for themself, with food…I think regarding on how big Norns are and how the nature around them doesn’t make it easy for them to produce agricultural products, it would be a bit portion of work with no profit to hunt to feed them.
It is easier to solve the situation by beating them up and tell them to leave your homestead and don’t bother you again.

With the SoS I think the Norn, since they’re more indivudualistic, actually don’t judge them as a whole and just see them as a bit “odd” for chosing a this kult, als long as they don’t cause inconvenience directly to them. And then they’d probably just beat up the individual SoS that did it and not every SoS they see.

Nope the weak just die of alcohol poisoning, or go to Jormag (which by the way has a ghetto in Hoelbroeck).

To have a jail you need a justice system, whic doesn’t exist in Norn society. Wolfborn, the group that tries to police Hoelbrak, are nothing more than Knut Whitebeard’s sons and their friends, and they act not according to some set rules, but to their own personal beliefs.
Norn generally try to police themselves (and if they are unable to do so for some reason, they are more likely to call upon friends than authorities), and the amount of possible punishments are really small and simple. If you do something a Norn doesn’t like, they will either kick you out, beat you up (and then kick you out) or kill you. They might possibly accept an honest apology, and there’s likely a tradition of apology gifts and weregild, but that’s most likely all. Jailing is extremely unlikely – someone would need to pay for sheltering and feeding the annoying lout, after all (remember, no taxes).

Yup. Norn generally are a forgiving people if you make honest efforts to make amends.

I mean you’d have to really horribly screw up to get a norn to kill you over getting too drunk for your own good. You’d have to be a pretty horrible person (or a horrible drunk).

More likely they’ll just kick your kitten , knock you out cold and throw you in the back somewhere until you regain your senses.

But yeah, norn anger is as legendary as their hospitality and forgiveness.

They’re patient and slow to anger, but if you manage it, there’s a solid chance you might die and a 100% chance of getting your kitten kicked.

Norn manage to police themselves pretty well. Never anger a norn. Follow that golden rule and you’ll manage at most moots and at Hoelbrak.

You know, unless a brawl breaks out.

Those happen quite a lot and they like them. Then I hope you know how to handle yourself. Or at least how to dodge a drunken norn.

Yes, they have a jail, it’s right there in the Norn starting area. There’s a Son of Svanir and a Pickpocket in it.

There is also one at Crossroads Haven with a few Son’s of Svanir in it.

Lil Puppy.5216:

Yes, they have a jail, it’s right there in the Norn starting area. There’s a Son of Svanir and a Pickpocket in it.

There is also one at Crossroads Haven with a few Son’s of Svanir in it.

To be technical, Crossroads Haven is run by the Lionguard. So, the prisoners there are prisoners of the Lionguard.

The first one is a fighting pit. I wouldn’t call it jail, more like…some kind of sentient rights violation, lol. (as opposed to “human rights violation” :O )

No, the first one is not a fight pit, check the map. It is clearly a jail. It is a completely different design than the fight pits which are located in Gendarran Fields east at Vollym’s Battle Pit which is nearly the same design as the starting location for the Moot in Wayfarer Foothills.

I think there’s two root reasons why Norn don’t do jails:

1) The Norn don’t have a central authority structure to which most / all of them swear allegiance or pointedly rebel against.
2) The Norn don’t have a clear, coherent set of “rules” that govern most of their interactions.

The two are related: Norn are highly individualistic. They don’t demand a coherent community, and they don’t expect other people to play by their rules. At the same time, they won’t be beholden to anyone else or their rules if they don’t have to be. You can see in they way they discipline troublemakers in Hoelbrak: exile is generally all they can do. I suspect that few Norn would tolerate someone being held against their will, even if the jailer was Knut Whitebear.

Nice find, Lil Puppy! I don’t think this is a “jail” per se… more like an animal pen being used as ad hoc incarceration facilities. But this is definitely an all-Norn establishment, so I would say that they do indeed believe in jailing folks under certain circumstances.

I would conjecture that confinement is just to keep the wrongdoers under wraps while their fate is being decided, rather than as a form of punishment in itself. For example, if that pickpocket got caught while the holding’s master was off hunting, he might have been tossed in the cage until the rightful person was available to pronounce sentence.

Hamfast.8719:

Nice find, Lil Puppy! I don’t think this is a “jail” per se… more like an animal pen being used as ad hoc incarceration facilities. But this is definitely an all-Norn establishment, so I would say that they do indeed believe in jailing folks under certain circumstances.

I would conjecture that confinement is just to keep the wrongdoers under wraps while their fate is being decided, rather than as a form of punishment in itself. For example, if that pickpocket got caught while the holding’s master was off hunting, he might have been tossed in the cage until the rightful person was available to pronounce sentence.

Norns were depicted as being fiercely independent with no central governing body in GW1 and it’s still true in GW2 (as evident by Knute’s comments during the summit in Season 2), so It’s more likely that particular Norn settlement has adopted jailing rather than the traditional exiling rather than any indicator Norns adopting other cultures’ legal systems.

You also have to remember that incarceration isn’t free. You need to have people dedicated to guarding the prisoners, which in turn means the community now has to put in extra effort to not only feed the prisoners, but to hunt for the guard’s share as well. It’s just not compatible with how Norn culture is depicted.

NORN Take NO Prisoners !

simplesimon.2084:

Norn settle there problems with fists and beer.

lol i was about to post the exact same thing. the only thing jail does is give someone time to come up with a better plan.

Stand The Wall.6987:

simplesimon.2084:

Norn settle there problems with fists and beer.

lol i was about to post the exact same thing. the only thing jail does is give someone time to come up with a better plan.

Do norn REALLY plan though?

Norn jail equals a rehab clinic.