Guild Wars 2

I prefer instanced content like GW1 than open world. I didn’t mind the open world content for map exploration in GW2. But once they started adding raid content in the open world you can just tell their system isn’t build to handle it (LA Karka event, all the big world bosses now, overflows). Also one thing I miss is WORLD CHANGING CONTENT like in GW1. Yes, GW1, not GW2. The War in Kryta? Winds of Change? And just the regular game before those got added… they changed your world permanently a lot better than GW2 has ever done.

Imagine GW2 if after you do Arah story/main story, the Cursed Shore changed and you could start permanently clearing out the undead. What a nice thought.

I much prefer challenging content requiring 8-20 people in an instance (The Deep, DoA, Urgoz, etc but on a larger scale) but with people who know what they are doing than being throw to a giant mess attempting to kill a boss that requires coordination and understanding when every time you do it, it’s different people and you need to explain it all over again. And honestly while I don’t like being pushed into a healer role or something like that, I do miss dungeons and such that required well polished builds to get through, not just DPS (even though in GW2 all my characters are essentially DPS).

Open world content in GW2 has proved to be a pretty big failure IMO. I have 20+ stacks of empyreal fragments and bloodstone dust, and 0 dragonite ore. World Bosses are no fun, even those that don’t require organization.

I despise the fact they are putting all of this effort into open world zerg bosses instead of organized dungeon raids with an increase of party allowance (10-25 players)

The wurm pre-event bores me already with mobs nothing more than fodder that don’t even drop loot. On the marionette it’s at least a bit different since we’re defending and they are trying to get to the portal, but killing all those other fodder mobs who are just there to fight is tedious as ever.

So no I don’t enjoy zerging. Scarlet invasions were the most mindless, dull, boring and still well rewarding experience in a long time.

Valento.9852:

What about the middle term? A 24-man raid, or “a medium-sized instanced content” (in GW2 not-gonna-copy-WoW mentality)?

Oh, absolutely yes! I just didn’t mention it, but I would love to have those too, definitely.

I like the idea of “permanent” cleanse of Orr. But that idea has at least 2 very clear problems.
1. Once you cleared it up and had no mobs to kill, the game would go down really quickly (read, it would become boring really fast)
2. The segmentation of the world and the community, like you wouldn’t be able to play with your friends who haven’t finished Arah yet, is clearly a thought of someone who doesn’t understand/like the MMs on MMO, and prefer loneliness with the henchman of GW1.

Henchman and heroes, by the way, are words that would instantly make me quit GW2 for good.

Kurr.4179:

Imagine GW2 if after you do Arah story/main story, the Cursed Shore changed and you could start permanently clearing out the undead. What a nice thought.

Then what would you grind for the thousands of rare crafting materials you have to farm to get anything good?

Rash.6514:

Valento.9852:

What about the middle term? A 24-man raid, or “a medium-sized instanced content” (in GW2 not-gonna-copy-WoW mentality)?

Oh, absolutely yes! I just didn’t mention it, but I would love to have those too, definitely.

I like the idea of “permanent” cleanse of Orr. But that idea has at least 2 very clear problems.
1. Once you cleared it up and had no mobs to kill, the game would go down really quickly (read, it would become boring really fast)
2. The segmentation of the world and the community, like you wouldn’t be able to play with your friends who haven’t finished Arah yet, is clearly a thought of someone who doesn’t understand/like the MMs on MMO, and prefer loneliness with the henchman of GW1.

Henchman and heroes, by the way, are words that would instantly make me quit GW2 for good.

I don’t see the connection… make big challenges inside an instance within the respective map, and after completed the map is changed? Just like Tower of Nightmares?

I’m not sure I completely understand what you meant. But instancing the open world is no different from what GW1 was and very anti-MMO, as well as “phasing” parts of the zone. Phasing is an WoW term that describes this precisely, how the world changes after you do something. Even Blizzard is careful with that technology.

I prefer the Living Story way. I just think ANet is “warming up” with it. Arah could be related to a LS, and slowly change Orr for all players. After all, we have killed Zhaitan, haven’t we? So why can’t that be part of the LS as well?

I can’t comprehend how people can enjoy zerging.

You’re just mindlessly mashing 1-5 against a big thing with minimal chance of being hurt by it.

No thinking, no effort, nothing enjoyable.

My favorite play in the game was back, say, in January of last year. It was moderate sized groups that played the various DE’s together in the cursed shore. The groups were small enough and regular enough that you got to know the people a bit. Partying together was also a natural occurrence. It had great social aspects and the gameplay was rewarding. Anet, for some reason, decided to end that as a way to play. I’ve done large zergs ala the champ trains and don’t find that as rewarding overall.

I think they’re a great idea and would love to participate in them but the following reasons make that almost impossible.

• I’m almost always in overflow, which isn’t necessarily a problem if there happens to also be an organized group in that particular overflow, except for the next problem…
• I almost always get disconnected several times during an encounter. This of course forces me to re-log into a different overflow making progress in the event impossible.
• I enjoy playing mainly condition builds that rely on interesting interplay with ‘on-crit’ traits and sigils. Since world bosses can’t be crit and condi’s have a hard cap most of my favorite professions/builds are useless.

So unfortunately I have to sit out things like Tequatl and the two new large scale world events, which look really exciting and well done and I understand why others enjoy them, just wish I could too.

Nick.6972:

As the title implies, do you like open world zerging?

Somewhat. In a well populated MMO there is room for a bit of everything, and it is certainly good that there is some content that boils down to a zerg of people facesmashing auto attack. There are some players who really do not want anything more engaging than this; just a chance to gather up with some friends and smash something while relaxing. To that end I like the fact that this exists in game.

Or would you rather prefer instanced content?

While I am glad that there already exists quite a lot of ‘zerg content’ for those who want it, there is not really very much for people who would like to push the limits of what their character is capable of doing in a PvE setting. There are a few notoriously difficult dungeon bosses that allow this, but there absolutely should be more, and more difficult boss encounters.

World bosses such as Tequatl and the new Ancient Wurm provide players looking for more of a challenge something to do. However, the fact that these encounters are open world makes it a huge PITA just to run them. Typically involving camping an overflow instance for an excessive amount of time in order to make sure that those in your organized party are able to be together for this. Without the ability to force the creation of a private instance for commanders to bring their group into, this ends up being a logistical nightmare that requires more waiting around not doing anything than it does actually playing. I would love to see more challenging encounters, but before we get any more higher-coordination fights to enjoy we first need command and organizational tools to remove the necessity of cheesing the game mechanics in order to get a half-way workable solution to group needs.

The good part of massive zerg fights is, that I really feel like being the hero, the center of the action.
My decisions and actions alone will decide about the fate of Tyria. It is as if I was part, no, if I was the story itself. I feel unique and important and get pulled into this fantasy world.
Thanks to the vast amount of lore in game, I can delve into the history and see the motivation of my powerful nemesis called Scarlet.
While in a zerg I understand her motivation to act instead of being passive and I know that I will have to face her in the end.
Only the bravest of all would face such a foe alone, but with a zerg it will feel epic as it will be my victory alone.

Thank you for the zerg!

I enjoy massive zerg content thoroughly.

I know a lot of other people do too from the Scarlet Invasions… until the champ nerf happened. Then next to no one wanted to do them because rewards sucked.

I like the idea of it, just not the implementation.
Simply put, the game isn’t designed for it, it’s designed for 5 man content.
In a zerg you just faceroll the keyboard until everything is dead, rarely does an iota of tactics or strategy ever enter into it.

If there were much more clearly different roles that people would fit into, then maybe it would work better as the zerg could have some structure. But then there is also the problem of the casting speed everyone has, which turns the battlefield into a mindless clusterF! of particle effect maelstroms, and it becomes hard to see two feet in front of you.

Realm of the Mad God is and example of zergs done well, as is Final Fantasy XIV: ARR.

Valento.9852:

Fenrir.3609:

Why is it an “or” and not an “and” OP?

Yes I enjoy open world zerging in an mmo AND yes I enjoy instanced content and stuff like Liadri.

Not sure why it has to be one or the other.

Because it obligates us to have a massive coordinated zerg that’s never organized in order to correctly beat the content?

I don’t like zergballs, I’m all for instanced content which you have total control over since you set the limit on how many people can enter.

What? I’m not following your counter argument here at all.

Why exactly can’t a game have open world/zerg content and instanced content again? I’m not talking about merging the two, i’m talking about within the game in general.

If you don’t like zergs, you go and do the non zerg stuff. If you don’t like instances, you go and do the zergs. If you like both, you get to pick and choose.

A game can have dungeons and Liadri and also have massive zergathons within it as well. Having only one or the other as an option is far less ideal than having the option to access both.

Boring and messy. You feel like you could not be there and the fight would end the same way. I like to feel important in a game.

I bet that the OP wasn’t expecting so many people to be in favor or zerging. Seems like the thread was meant to be a QQfest instead.

My stance is that it doesn’t matter what I like. They should introduce content for everyone. That means instanced content, pvp content, pve content, ect. I hate SAB with a passion, but plenty of people like it, so they should continue to develop and release it.

timidobserver.7925:

I bet that the OP wasn’t expecting so many people to be in favor or zerging. Seems like the thread was meant to be a QQfest instead.

My stance is that it doesn’t matter what I like. They should introduce content for everyone. That means instanced content, pvp content, pve content, ect. I hate SAB with a passion, but plenty of people like it, so they should continue to develop and release it.

VERY WELL BLOODY SAID xD i couldnt agree more, too many complainers, tbh though i am a bit annoyed over the people ive seen complaining saying it needs to be more like gw1 then are completely against instances lmao little hypocritical imo but no youre completly right whats wrong with a bit of everything

Anet can’t out-WoW Blizzard. It isn’t going to happen. Plenty of standard MMOs are coming out that are going to have raids and trinities. Guild Wars 2 can NOT compete with them. I don’t think Anet has the money to compete with them.

It’s sort of why they went with the personal story with the cut scenes they had. They couldn’t compete with Bioware as far as voice acting and movie-style cut scene budget goes. That’s expensive as hell. It’s the main reason why SWToR was the most expensive MMO ever made.

So what is Anet to do? They need something that sets them apart. The living world and the open world content…no one does that as well…in my opinion anyway…and it’s only the start. They’ll get better at it as time goes on.

In the mean time…those who like it will stay here, those who don’t will leave. But for me, I’d rather have an open world than an instance any day of the week.

Jski.6180:

Open world by far you get to play with other ppl at any time with out needing to be consure with the 5 man limit. Its a question of mmorpg vs HUB games open world is an mmorpg instanced is more HUB game.

Well, let’s face it – you’re not really playing WITH other people at all – just playing along side them. They may as well be NPCs.

Instanced, large-scale group content for stuff like this is a much better experience.

There’s no reason they can’t leave open world versions of these bosses as they are for everyone – but then provide an instanced version for guild progression of the hard modes.

Zeldain.5710:

Jski.6180:

Open world by far you get to play with other ppl at any time with out needing to be consure with the 5 man limit. Its a question of mmorpg vs HUB games open world is an mmorpg instanced is more HUB game.

Well, let’s face it – you’re not really playing WITH other people at all – just playing along side them. They may as well be NPCs.

Instanced, large-scale group content for stuff like this is a much better experience.

There’s no reason they can’t leave open world versions of these bosses as they are for everyone – but then provide an instanced version for guild progression of the hard modes.

I’m usually playing with my guild. While it’s true that we can’t ALWAYS get into the same overflow, usually we do. And so even though you may think I’m not playing with people, I am. Today me and four other guildies participated in the marionette fight in Lornar’s on TC. It was the first time we beat it without a single party failing to break a chain.

But in our corridor, me and my guildies were on mumble, coordinating at least amongst ourselves. Lots of smaller guilds do this.

Creating content for something you know cannot support it (zone size limitations, server lag, etc) does not seem very smart to me. Instance it, scale it back, and grab your sack, bite your lip, and admit you need to start adding these to instanced areas with a more traditional sized /evil – RAID -/evil feeling.

kitten, even add it to guild content if that’s what you have to do to say you are still “different” Somethings got to happen up there boys, no free ride this year, there is a metric kitten ton of stuff coming out this year.

People sometimes use the word “zerg” as a negative, but I love it to be honest. Hate feeling all alone in an MMO. However, ANet needs to fix the terrible lag.

Funny thing is I don’t really suffer from much lag on this game. Even on zergs.

i love it. i can take part in something big even if real life might require me to log out instantly, i would not even do 5man dungeons because of this. actually gw2 is the only mmo right now thats playable with my rl as it is right now. and so far i dont have a lag problem, playing on medium settings on a notebook with outdated due to incompatibility graphic drivers (switchable graphics -.-).
and if i don’t know if its just 5 minutes til i have to log out again i can still join the queensdale train.

Yes, I do. Seeing a group of hundreds of players coming together to take down a common foe is REALLY fun for me, and gives me the epic feeling I look for in GW2.

This does not mean I don’t enjoy small-group or even solo content though. Each has its own place and depending on my mood I prefer each in turn.

I like big events that take a lot of people to coordinate to succeed. While my own contribution might be limited, it still feels like I am part of a bigger thing and how my contribution ‘in the end’ was part of the success (or failure) of the whole.

Would I want all content to be like this, no! Do I wish for less lag and particle spam, yes! … but those do not mean I wouldn’t want this kind of content. Which I think can be hugely bonding and fulfilling, when everything falls into place, everybody has found its place, and the whole becomes more then the sum of its parts. Yes please, I think that is epic!

Do I see the reasons for other people not liking it, yes I do! … do I think that they too should be honoured, yes I do!

I hope that season 2, will bring us more diversity in how the story is conveyed. ArenaNet should know by now which kinds of ways there are available to them, to bring us content. And they should try to mix those ways up, and make sure that not all that content is needed to complete the meta-event. So that a player has choices in how to complete it, instead of feel forced to do what ever there is to be done.

And even if it turns out that this biweekly content doesn’t have a format you like, that the next biweekly content will have. And the same applies to the balance between temporarily content and permanent content. To please a diverse crowd (and lets face it any MMO will have a diverse crowd) the only way to please all, is to make sure your content is diverse!

This doesn’t mean all the content needs to be as diverse all the time, but it means that if you do something that is entirely temporarily, that the next time, you do something that is permanent. Even better would be a temporarily string of events that leave permanent content, or permanent content that has temporal events woven into it. Same with zerg vs. team vs. solo vs. instanced vs. open world.

I personally liked ‘flame and frost’ a lot, due to its many open world things, while at the same time ending with a dungeon like epic battle. In a similar fashion I think the tower was designed well, it took either an organized little group or a zerg to get up (I tried solo, with the emphasis on tried), while having all these instances in it that called for solo or small groups, ending with a team fight that could be solo’ed. It had a bit of all in it…

Less successful (in my views) was the event in divinity. It just called for zerging the spawning bosses, or solo’ing the ring. While a ‘no team’-content this time, wasn’t really an issue. And the solo fights were nice and challenging. The zerg fights could have been made a lot more interesting by having the bosses all spawn at once, and for any boss that isn’t slain, they march upon the center with a bunch of adds. – yes this calls for a large group of people, but they will have to split up, and for any boss that isn’t slain, you get a ‘last stand’ fight in the center. on fail, it should despawn all the bosses and leave the adds running around and make the waypoint contested. Leaving no choice but to all re-enter and retake the place… rinse and repeat…

But, and I said this in other threads also, I feel we should give ArenaNet the freedom to experiment, and based upon their efforts give honest and open feedback (instead of screaming ‘fail’ at everything that ‘you’ personally didn’t like). Only if we tell them the good and the bad, will they be able to better themselves, and lets face it, the only ones who will eventually benefit from this, are ‘we’.

RedShipRaider.9560:

Nick.6972:

As the title implies, do you like open world zerging?

Somewhat. In a well populated MMO there is room for a bit of everything, and it is certainly good that there is some content that boils down to a zerg of people facesmashing auto attack. There are some players who really do not want anything more engaging than this; just a chance to gather up with some friends and smash something while relaxing. To that end I like the fact that this exists in game.

Or would you rather prefer instanced content?

While I am glad that there already exists quite a lot of ‘zerg content’ for those who want it, there is not really very much for people who would like to push the limits of what their character is capable of doing in a PvE setting. There are a few notoriously difficult dungeon bosses that allow this, but there absolutely should be more, and more difficult boss encounters.

World bosses such as Tequatl and the new Ancient Wurm provide players looking for more of a challenge something to do. However, the fact that these encounters are open world makes it a huge PITA just to run them. Typically involving camping an overflow instance for an excessive amount of time in order to make sure that those in your organized party are able to be together for this. Without the ability to force the creation of a private instance for commanders to bring their group into, this ends up being a logistical nightmare that requires more waiting around not doing anything than it does actually playing. I would love to see more challenging encounters, but before we get any more higher-coordination fights to enjoy we first need command and organizational tools to remove the necessity of cheesing the game mechanics in order to get a half-way workable solution to group needs.

Nailed it. Massive group battles can be extremely fun, but the biggest thing GW2 lacks for this is an easy way to coordinate. Only your party can see a called target. Only your party can see you drawing/pinging on the map. Every single solution I’ve tried for voice chat has interfered with sound in the game (as in my sound goes out except for a few effects). I loved the fact that they reworked Teq and other bosses, but I think Teq got too complicated, and not enough people really know what to do once there… Unless you happen to be using TS/mumble and on a server that is completely focused on these events.

If the bosses are going to be this huge, complicated, coordinated effort, it would be really nice to have better ways to focus the whole group. Maybe it would help to have more NPCs around shouting appropriate instructions to nearby players too.

As far as solo running, I saw another poster mention that everything should scale according to what is confronting it (paraphrasing). While I agree, to an extent, that the scaling definitely could be a lot better for small groups (and big ones too; sometimes there are too many champs that just take too long to kill), I definitely see how boss events should be impossible to solo (not champs, bosses). That said, I am on Darkhaven, and I don’t know that we ever beat Tequatl. I saw huge groups most times, but I don’t think I ever saw Teq at less than half health after the boss update. I gave up after Boss Week because I didn’t see many people there afterward.

Oh, that and the bloated creepers with a one-hit DOWN really suck. I hate one hit kills.

X The Manimal.5293:

People sometimes use the word “zerg” as a negative, but I love it to be honest. Hate feeling all alone in an MMO. However, ANet needs to fix the terrible lag.

you are all alone in a zerg, all you do is chase a big group and quickly hit enemies to get credit for the kill.
group play i am fine with but a group is 5 players, not 30+.

Raine.1394:

My favorite play in the game was back, say, in January of last year. It was moderate sized groups that played the various DE’s together in the cursed shore. The groups were small enough and regular enough that you got to know the people a bit. Partying together was also a natural occurrence. It had great social aspects and the gameplay was rewarding. Anet, for some reason, decided to end that as a way to play. I’ve done large zergs ala the champ trains and don’t find that as rewarding overall.

Pretty much this.

I’d like to do both.

No I do not enjoy open world zerg content. I would prefer elite dungeons like we had in guild wars 1 shame anet seems to keep pushing open world content more and more