Guild Wars 2

In the case of GW2 i have found that the community here is somewhat of a bastion away from what has become of most of the gaming community- People here are decent, nice, and helpful quite often.

I have come back from a 2 year break and this is my second week. I have had people guide me to vistas, volunteer on lowbie story mode dungeons, and of course, answer my noob questions.

Even more- people in gw2 are likely to be “light” roleplayers, not going full on roleplay but rather acting in character as select times to increase overall immersion.

In contrast- my 2 years spent in WoW a while ago i found a large portion of the playerbase to be like zombies, some of which didn’t even seem all that happy about what they were playing yet ran several raids per day. It got real awkward before i quit, i remember i could confront with 100 players in a day and not socially interact with a single one.

On a broader note, games in general i.e H1z1, Dota 2, Rust, Archeage and a number of first person shooters are filled with toxicity- trolls and people who find that yelling and spamming and just generally being annoying is entertaining. Quite sad.

It is my opinion that in its current state (as its clearly been updated over the years) Gw2 is by a large margin the best all around game that i own. The fact that its so well polished and that they spend the extra effort to add social stimuli to the game i.e the harp, the bobble head thing ect- shows that these developers are EXTREMELY active and caring about their product- and i think that love for their game spills over into the community.

It’s hard to believe that a game which is 3 years old is the best one i own but Arena net has really stepped up.

P.s. Havent seen a single bot! This used to be a MAJOR problem, glad its fixed!

totaly agree

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I played many games that I considered the best of all time to have not so great communities. League of legends being a prime example but the toxicity from the other players is part of the reason why its so fun.

have you ever played pvp?

To answer the question simply; Yes.

Not really.

Toxic behaviour is proportional to dependence on other players.
This dependence is low in GW2, and the community is decent because of that.

If your fun in a game depends on others, you are much more, lets say, critical towards them. Which in turn snowballs fast into toxic behaviour.

Mobas are toxic hellholes because your game depends on 4 other people not kittening up.

Arkinos.7245:

Not really.

Toxic behaviour is proportional to dependence on other players.
This dependence is low in GW2, and the community is decent because of that.

If your fun in a game depends on others, you are much more, lets say, critical towards them. Which in turn snowballs fast into toxic behaviour.

Mobas are toxic hellholes because your game depends on 4 other people not kittening up.

Or you screwing up and blaming it on four other people.

Arkinos.7245:

Not really.

Toxic behaviour is proportional to dependence on other players.
This dependence is low in GW2, and the community is decent because of that.

If your fun in a game depends on others, you are much more, lets say, critical towards them. Which in turn snowballs fast into toxic behaviour.

Mobas are toxic hellholes because your game depends on 4 other people not kittening up.

What your stating sounds believable in context but there are actually a great deal of player dependencies in this game. From the simple “hey i’m lost” which i mentioned in relation to vistas- to someone random selflessly guiding noobies through a story mode dungeon and watching the cut-scenes with us.

Even on a more extreme end of the spectrum- pvp in this game is actually extremely player reliant and so are difficult dungeons. Out of the 150 matches of pvp i crammed in these past two weeks i only met one truly toxic individual but the rest of the team just went on and joked about it. In other- lesser insulting comments i usually see some other person saying “Wow calm down” or “Oh you must think you’re soooo goood” In other words, players sticking up for players.

Thus, the community of Gw2 is extremely friendly in this regard and i do believe your assumption is false about the dependency’s.

It’s because in guild wars 2, you’re not punished for helping other players, you’re rewarded for it.

Take any other MMO for example, you come across someone fighting a rare mob, you don’t want to help him, you want him to die so the mob can reset, you can tag it and get the loot.

No such thing occurs in GW2.

I’d say – and even with pvp taken into account – GW2 does have a really “outstanding” community. Sure, there are different people everywhere but generally the community is much nicer than the average.

Invoker.5462:

In the case of GW2 i have found that the community here is somewhat of a bastion away from what has become of most of the gaming community- People here are decent, nice, and helpful quite often.

I have come back from a 2 year break and this is my second week. I have had people guide me to vistas, volunteer on lowbie story mode dungeons, and of course, answer my noob questions.

Even more- people in gw2 are likely to be “light” roleplayers, not going full on roleplay but rather acting in character as select times to increase overall immersion.

In contrast- my 2 years spent in WoW a while ago i found a large portion of the playerbase to be like zombies, some of which didn’t even seem all that happy about what they were playing yet ran several raids per day. It got real awkward before i quit, i remember i could confront with 100 players in a day and not socially interact with a single one.

On a broader note, games in general i.e H1z1, Dota 2, Rust, Archeage and a number of first person shooters are filled with toxicity- trolls and people who find that yelling and spamming and just generally being annoying is entertaining. Quite sad.

It is my opinion that in its current state (as its clearly been updated over the years) Gw2 is by a large margin the best all around game that i own. The fact that its so well polished and that they spend the extra effort to add social stimuli to the game i.e the harp, the bobble head thing ect- shows that these developers are EXTREMELY active and caring about their product- and i think that love for their game spills over into the community.

It’s hard to believe that a game which is 3 years old is the best one i own but Arena net has really stepped up.

P.s. Havent seen a single bot! This used to be a MAJOR problem, glad its fixed!

No, great games don’t inspire great communities. Case in point are games like LoL, Smite, Dota2, WOW, diablo 3 (post patches) and etc.

What inspires good behavior and good community are game mechanics that encourage good behavior such as ones in GW2.

Actually, poor communities help to cripple games that could have been great. Just take a look at all the grinding content ArenaNet has added to the game because there are a lot of grinders and farmers among the players. Heh, even ascended gear only exists because the community is rather bad.

play some pvp and/or reach max level areas, youll see it’s not really any different

DeathPanel.8362:

Invoker.5462:

In the case of GW2 i have found that the community here is somewhat of a bastion away from what has become of most of the gaming community- People here are decent, nice, and helpful quite often.

I have come back from a 2 year break and this is my second week. I have had people guide me to vistas, volunteer on lowbie story mode dungeons, and of course, answer my noob questions.

Even more- people in gw2 are likely to be “light” roleplayers, not going full on roleplay but rather acting in character as select times to increase overall immersion.

In contrast- my 2 years spent in WoW a while ago i found a large portion of the playerbase to be like zombies, some of which didn’t even seem all that happy about what they were playing yet ran several raids per day. It got real awkward before i quit, i remember i could confront with 100 players in a day and not socially interact with a single one.

On a broader note, games in general i.e H1z1, Dota 2, Rust, Archeage and a number of first person shooters are filled with toxicity- trolls and people who find that yelling and spamming and just generally being annoying is entertaining. Quite sad.

It is my opinion that in its current state (as its clearly been updated over the years) Gw2 is by a large margin the best all around game that i own. The fact that its so well polished and that they spend the extra effort to add social stimuli to the game i.e the harp, the bobble head thing ect- shows that these developers are EXTREMELY active and caring about their product- and i think that love for their game spills over into the community.

It’s hard to believe that a game which is 3 years old is the best one i own but Arena net has really stepped up.

P.s. Havent seen a single bot! This used to be a MAJOR problem, glad its fixed!

No, great games don’t inspire great communities. Case in point are games like LoL, Smite, Dota2, WOW, diablo 3 (post patches) and etc.

What inspires good behavior and good community are game mechanics that encourage good behavior such as ones in GW2.

Those game’s are not really all that “great”. Sure, the Moba scene is a fun one for many people but they are more like indie titles without much depth. The substance of a Moba comes from how simple yet complex its basic game mechanics can be. The items and item recipes can actually be completely removed from the genre and it still works (HoTs).

World of Warcraft on the other hand – now you have an argument. I can’t really say that its not a great game. But my overall opinion which would take several pages to write would state that for a sum of all its parts and design decisions, Guild Wars 2 far greater than WoW. And you’re right, the Gw2 dev team seems to have taken major leaps to promote a good community. And i’m glad its payed off.

Test.8734:

Actually, poor communities help to cripple games that could have been great. Just take a look at all the grinding content ArenaNet has added to the game because there are a lot of grinders and farmers among the players. Heh, even ascended gear only exists because the community is rather bad.

I don’t get the relationship between grind/farm & bad community ?

Invoker.5462:

DeathPanel.8362:

Invoker.5462:

In the case of GW2 i have found that the community here is somewhat of a bastion away from what has become of most of the gaming community- People here are decent, nice, and helpful quite often.

I have come back from a 2 year break and this is my second week. I have had people guide me to vistas, volunteer on lowbie story mode dungeons, and of course, answer my noob questions.

Even more- people in gw2 are likely to be “light” roleplayers, not going full on roleplay but rather acting in character as select times to increase overall immersion.

In contrast- my 2 years spent in WoW a while ago i found a large portion of the playerbase to be like zombies, some of which didn’t even seem all that happy about what they were playing yet ran several raids per day. It got real awkward before i quit, i remember i could confront with 100 players in a day and not socially interact with a single one.

On a broader note, games in general i.e H1z1, Dota 2, Rust, Archeage and a number of first person shooters are filled with toxicity- trolls and people who find that yelling and spamming and just generally being annoying is entertaining. Quite sad.

It is my opinion that in its current state (as its clearly been updated over the years) Gw2 is by a large margin the best all around game that i own. The fact that its so well polished and that they spend the extra effort to add social stimuli to the game i.e the harp, the bobble head thing ect- shows that these developers are EXTREMELY active and caring about their product- and i think that love for their game spills over into the community.

It’s hard to believe that a game which is 3 years old is the best one i own but Arena net has really stepped up.

P.s. Havent seen a single bot! This used to be a MAJOR problem, glad its fixed!

No, great games don’t inspire great communities. Case in point are games like LoL, Smite, Dota2, WOW, diablo 3 (post patches) and etc.

What inspires good behavior and good community are game mechanics that encourage good behavior such as ones in GW2.

Those game’s are not really all that “great”. Sure, the Moba scene is a fun one for many people but they are more like indie titles without much depth. The substance of a Moba comes from how simple yet complex its basic game mechanics can be. The items and item recipes can actually be completely removed from the genre and it still works (HoTs).

World of Warcraft on the other hand – now you have an argument. I can’t really say that its not a great game. But my overall opinion which would take several pages to write would state that for a sum of all its parts and design decisions, Guild Wars 2 far greater than WoW. And you’re right, the Gw2 dev team seems to have taken major leaps to promote a good community. And i’m glad its payed off.

Moba don’t have much depth?.. you kidding right?.. there is a reason why they are considered E-sports while this games pvp is considered a laughing stock. There is more mechanics to master and just things to learn compared to Gw2 brainless spamfest.

Gw2 is pretty much forgotten by the masses, while a game like league has as much people playing it as the entire Xbox live which is saying alot.

League and dota 2 are probably the greatest games of all time, surpassing gw2 by a HUGE margin.

Lifestealer.4910:

Invoker.5462:

DeathPanel.8362:

Invoker.5462:

In the case of GW2 i have found that the community here is somewhat of a bastion away from what has become of most of the gaming community- People here are decent, nice, and helpful quite often.

I have come back from a 2 year break and this is my second week. I have had people guide me to vistas, volunteer on lowbie story mode dungeons, and of course, answer my noob questions.

Even more- people in gw2 are likely to be “light” roleplayers, not going full on roleplay but rather acting in character as select times to increase overall immersion.

In contrast- my 2 years spent in WoW a while ago i found a large portion of the playerbase to be like zombies, some of which didn’t even seem all that happy about what they were playing yet ran several raids per day. It got real awkward before i quit, i remember i could confront with 100 players in a day and not socially interact with a single one.

On a broader note, games in general i.e H1z1, Dota 2, Rust, Archeage and a number of first person shooters are filled with toxicity- trolls and people who find that yelling and spamming and just generally being annoying is entertaining. Quite sad.

It is my opinion that in its current state (as its clearly been updated over the years) Gw2 is by a large margin the best all around game that i own. The fact that its so well polished and that they spend the extra effort to add social stimuli to the game i.e the harp, the bobble head thing ect- shows that these developers are EXTREMELY active and caring about their product- and i think that love for their game spills over into the community.

It’s hard to believe that a game which is 3 years old is the best one i own but Arena net has really stepped up.

P.s. Havent seen a single bot! This used to be a MAJOR problem, glad its fixed!

No, great games don’t inspire great communities. Case in point are games like LoL, Smite, Dota2, WOW, diablo 3 (post patches) and etc.

What inspires good behavior and good community are game mechanics that encourage good behavior such as ones in GW2.

Those game’s are not really all that “great”. Sure, the Moba scene is a fun one for many people but they are more like indie titles without much depth. The substance of a Moba comes from how simple yet complex its basic game mechanics can be. The items and item recipes can actually be completely removed from the genre and it still works (HoTs).

World of Warcraft on the other hand – now you have an argument. I can’t really say that its not a great game. But my overall opinion which would take several pages to write would state that for a sum of all its parts and design decisions, Guild Wars 2 far greater than WoW. And you’re right, the Gw2 dev team seems to have taken major leaps to promote a good community. And i’m glad its payed off.

Moba don’t have much depth?.. you kidding right?.. there is a reason why they are considered E-sports while this games pvp is considered a laughing stock. There is more mechanics to master and just things to learn compared to Gw2 brainless spamfest.

Gw2 is pretty much forgotten by the masses, while a game like league has as much people playing it as the entire Xbox live which is saying alot.

League and dota 2 are probably the greatest games of all time, surpassing gw2 by a HUGE margin.

“Great” is a very subjective opinion when it comes to the quality of a game as determined by players. So, while you might think League and Dota 2 are the “greatest games of all time” that doesn’t mean they are. It’s just your opinion.

I for one cannot consider MOBA’s great, simply because their communities ruin the experience with their toxicity. In my personal opinion, games are made for the sake of entertainment, and are to be enjoyed, so when people start taking games too seriously, and start attacking other people for the way they play, then I think there’s a serious issue.

I also think that’s why a lot of people enjoy GW2. It may not be the deepest game in the world, but the community is amiable enough to make the game experience enjoyable for a lot of players, especially new players. Perhaps even more enjoyable than the game would be if such a great community didn’t exist, based on mechanics alone. Imagine how much more fun MOBA’s would be for new and veteran players alike if they had similarly great communities. The reality is rather sad in comparison.

It is definitely subjective, no doubt about that tho I would argue that there are data that would show that most people would say games like league are better. Personally for me i like to look at games from a gameplay perspective. Gw2 imo is a good looking game but when you start unraveling the gameplay mechanics behind the classes, boss fights, pvp objectives, wvw objectives etc.. they are extremely shallow and some mechanics are outright broken, especially on the PvE end.

I can understand people being turned away by the community of mobas but for me, the toxicity is actually what makes the game even better. Don’t get me wrong, i am not a toxic person, but the uncertainty that you would get into a team with a bunch of angry Russians which will start complaining randomly is what spices things up.

Lifestealer.4910:

It is definitely subjective, no doubt about that tho I would argue that there are data that would show that most people would say games like league are better. Personally for me i like to look at games from a gameplay perspective. Gw2 imo is a good looking game but when you start unraveling the gameplay mechanics behind the classes, boss fights, pvp objectives, wvw objectives etc.. they are extremely shallow and some mechanics are outright broken, especially on the PvE end.

I can understand people being turned away by the community of mobas but for me, the toxicity is actually what makes the game even better. Don’t get me wrong, i am not a toxic person, but the uncertainty that you would get into a team with a bunch of angry Russians which will start complaining randomly is what spices things up.

I personally wouldn’t make any assumptions about what kind of games are being claimed as “better” by gamers, not unless there’s solid, accurate data that can be shown to prove it. If we just went by popularity though, or number of players/sales, then first person shooters would likely be near the top of the list, if not at the top, and I certainly doubt MOBA’s would be. Ironically, shooters are also usually much simpler in terms of depth and gameplay mechanics.

In any case, a game doesn’t have to be deep to be fun. Some of the most fun games ever created also have the most simple gameplay mechanics. I think that’s one mistake a lot of gamers make, and that is to assume “depth” is directly proportional with “fun” when in many cases, it is actually the opposite. Too much depth can over-saturate a game experience with unnecessary tedium that gets in the way. It’s all about balance and, ultimately, it falls to the individual tastes of each player regarding what kind of game they like (some like more depth, others like simplicity).

Anyway, I digress, I think we’re getting a bit off topic with the MOBA vs GW2 discussion. If I were to answer the OP’s original question, I’d say that a great game doesn’t make a great community, but a great community can make a game “better” (though it may not necessarily make it great, that still ultimately depends on the game itself). I do think others have put it well in saying that GW2 isn’t a game where you’re overly reliant on others for success, and that’s why there’s typically less volatility, however, I’d personally prefer not to praise or blame games for the behavior of their players, because we are ultimately responsible for that ourselves.

Test.8734:

Actually, poor communities help to cripple games that could have been great. Just take a look at all the grinding content ArenaNet has added to the game because there are a lot of grinders and farmers among the players. Heh, even ascended gear only exists because the community is rather bad.

wow, you really have to bring your pet peeve into each and every forum thread, don´t you? We got it by now.

papry.8096:

I don’t get the relationship between grind/farm & bad community ?

Who is verbally abusing players for targeting champion mobs outside of the train? Or for pushing an event towards resolution before it was milked for all possible champion spawns?

Players are more likely to be nice to each other when they are not competing. GW2s game mechanics and world design remove many competitive elements that existed in this space in other MMOs, and locked them away in the PvP modes. Whenever some aspect of competition was reintroduced into PvE, either by Anet or the players themselves, the players quickly fall back into the same bad habits as in other communities. Even in this “friendliest community in MMOs”.

The answer depends on how the community is policed. You can believe me when I tell you the community, in its early days, was not as nice as it is now.

A lot of our ‘special players’ have either left or got banned.

I could tell you a tale or two about some interesting debates in Queensdale when the champion train ran.

-DOTA, Lol are very competitive games, people fight each others often, of course they will be hot headed all the time.

-WoW is super grindy, it’s addictive in a way but it’s no longer bring any joy after few years, many players are sick of it but they still play because they couldnt find any better game of similar style.

-GuildWars 2 is very casual compared to the traditional MMORPG. You can get the top tier gears with moderate effort, and they are only 5% better than the second tier gears which is extremely easy to get. Moreover, It encourages players to help each others (revive system ) and everyone get relatively the same amount of reward when doing something together, so players are not as competitive and nicer.

Admittedly, I didn’t read all of that, but to answer the question itself, I think it’s more about the development team than the product itself.

I think Marvel Heroes has the best community I’ve seen in a long time, and my feeling is it’s a direct reflection of the development team and how they are part of the community.

I have no opinion about existing community. When I play I turn my chat off, including pvp. No map spam, no whispers. I don’t like other people and GW2 gives me a choice to avoid them almost perfectly.

While I’m all for communities, you should all be a little more like me and understand that no matter the medium, people will be people. You will get a mix of both good and bad. The game will not change that. Any game out there right now has its good and bad, and GW2 is no exception. I myself have my good moments and I have my moments where I offend people (both intentionally and unintentionally and will not apologize for either). Take that for what you will, but I’d like to add that correlation does not mean causation. A great game does not make its community of players good or bad. If anything it’s the other way around.

Yes and no.

Yes in the sense that PVE’s cooperative foundation brings out the best in many people,

No in the sense that PVP’s competitive spirit brings out the worst in people.

The focus of the game very much shapes the players, or at the very least provides them specific outlets for either kindness or aggression that shape the way the specific game modes and their respective communities are seen.

with minor outliers. You’ll see jerks more often where you’d be in direct conflict with them, and helpful people where being kind is rewarded.

Or, perhaps the game does nothing at all to shape the players, and instead draws the people to modes that suit their personalities.

I’ll let you know when I find an MMO with a great community. GW2 certainly doesn’t. The PvP lobby is a roller coaster of profanity and death threats. PvE is a clash of zerker Meta users who just want to have fun, zerker meta users who try to force it onto you, non-zerker meta users who make their own parties and have fun, and non-zerker meta users who join zerker meta parties just to kitten up their runs. WvW is just a bunch of elitist jerks who flip out if an inexperienced commander wants to command or who think the world revolves around them.

Great games have the ‘potential’ to create great communities. But there will always be those who would use them as a means of bullying and belittlement. Elitist’s, we call them.

I’ve been playing GW2 since early 2012 and only just recently joined the forums. My delay in doing so was entirely due to the foul attitudes and treatment various people receive on other game forums I have been on. I see much, MUCH less of it here, but it is not totally absent.

With PVE community and (mostly) wvw community I agree.

However the Spvp community is as bad as any other community I have come across.
I have managed to mitigate this personaly though I only use Spvp to test builds and sometimes other classes that I dont play to get an understanding of them.

If I encounter any toxicity I block said people and leave the match. Simple.
I imagine if competitive arena type stuff was your main thing it would be a problem though.

For me though its great I can avoid most of it and my main gameplay types wvw and pve are fine.

Abusive chat I’ve seen has been relatively mild compared to elsewhere on the internet. Though interestingly I see more abusive chat in wvw and pve when people aren’t playing the way others want. For example, yesterday a chest train in the Silverwastes was called some very unpleasant names because most people didn’t feel like defending. In PvP, it’s the occasional trash talking, but it’s by and large passive aggressive talk about other people’s skills which is par the course for anything really. I do find it funny the worst comes from your “allies” though.

I think whether a game is good or great is extremely subjective.

But I also think people are right in saying that this game encourages good behaviour between players. There are a lot of seemingly simple things that you can start to take for granted after playing for a while (like everyone getting XP and loot from enemies or everyone being able to resurrect anyone else with no cost to themselves) which add up to mean that having other players around at worst makes no difference to you, and more often makes the game better.

That positivity then carries over into other areas. Once you’ve learned you can jump into any fight (and have events to give you an incentive) you get into the habit of stepping in to help someone who’s in trouble, and it’s a short step from helping them fight to helping them reach a vista, or complete a personal story chapter…or whatever they need.

And that feeds back too, if people get used to the idea that other people will help them they’re more likely to help other people.

I meet a lot of nice people regularly in open-world PVE, but I’ve seen some truly horrific behavior in PVP and dungeons, so I think it’s less about the game and more about where in the game you play.

Celtic Lady.3729:

I meet a lot of nice people regularly in open-world PVE, but I’ve seen some truly horrific behavior in PVP and dungeons, so I think it’s less about the game and more about where in the game you play.

Yeah. Mechanics such as node, event and kill sharing does help a lot. PvE has mechanics in place which makes it difficult (although it has happened) for players to actively grieve other players. This is also probably due to the zerg focus of some pve content where individual failings (purposeful or otherwise don’t impact overall success. In the case of Dungeons and PvP however individuals are required to contribute to achieve success, and thus individual failing has a far larger impact. So blame can more easily be assigned.

Dragonax.6487:

-GuildWars 2 is very casual compared to the traditional MMORPG. You can get the top tier gears with moderate effort, and they are only 5% better than the second tier gears which is extremely easy to get. Moreover, It encourages players to help each others (revive system ) and everyone get relatively the same amount of reward when doing something together, so players are not as competitive and nicer.

Guild Wars 2 is casual if that’s the play style your going by. Perhaps you have chosen to be casual? I find that the game caters to both the casual and the hardcore. The skill ceiling is actually quite high at the upper level of PVP and i bet not anyone can come up with a perfect PVE group without really putting in the effort. While i’m not familiar with too much of the late game PVE i remember when i was playing a while back that many, many runs in Gw2 dungeons were unsuccessful, much more so than the unsuccessful runs i had in WoW.

The game doesn’t create the community, the people do.

If you haven’t seen “you god kitten idiot, why the kitten would you do that?” type comment, well, consider yourself lucky. I regularly see them in Silverwastes. I see them quite often in dungeons. Other open world farms it happens if you even complete an event (i mean, who would do that?). That’s not to mention PVP…

GW2’s community will never match the first few years of EQ for me, just such a different type of person who played that game back then. I have no doubt that overall GW2’s community is one of the better ones out there, but it’s certainly not void of it’s fair share of undesirables. I mean we have something here that still shocks me… we have an irrational hatred for playing well, i mean A LOT of people hate people who try and play this game to the best of their ability, it’s the strangest thing… but at the same time it goes both ways, these people are often frustrated by the person in their group/around them who is plinking away with a ranger shortbow on a boss with maxed out condi’s. That’s all on ANet though, that’s a game design flaw. They’ve done their best to push everyone together, not allow people to segregate themselves, you must play together! So again, it’s the people in the community that make it what it is, the game… not so much, I’d attribute more negatives to the game design than positives. The one positive I can think of is it’s more casual nature, in that it’s easy to walk away, or play for a few mins at a time, and no need to farm endlessly.

Invoker.5462:

Dragonax.6487:

-GuildWars 2 is very casual compared to the traditional MMORPG. You can get the top tier gears with moderate effort, and they are only 5% better than the second tier gears which is extremely easy to get. Moreover, It encourages players to help each others (revive system ) and everyone get relatively the same amount of reward when doing something together, so players are not as competitive and nicer.

Guild Wars 2 is casual if that’s the play style your going by. Perhaps you have chosen to be casual? I find that the game caters to both the casual and the hardcore. The skill ceiling is actually quite high at the upper level of PVP and i bet not anyone can come up with a perfect PVE group without really putting in the effort. While i’m not familiar with too much of the late game PVE i remember when i was playing a while back that many, many runs in Gw2 dungeons were unsuccessful, much more so than the unsuccessful runs i had in WoW.

True, but the thing is you don’t need a hardcore group to beat the hardest content in the game, a pub group can beat Arah and Frac 50 just fine.