Guild Wars 2

With all this AoE nerf I just realized I’ve never seen a complain about AoE’s in general being OP, I’ve read a lot of complains about a lot of things that are OP, never AoE :S.

But Anet seems to think this a very important issue, important enough to be a priority over the feedback of the forums(s).

So my question is, do you feel listened to? Please don’t just make a doom-hateful-frustated thread, I mean, in your SUBJECTIVE opinion, do you feel like your feedback is useful and listened to?

I have to confess that lately when I read “Thanks for your feedback” I feel some cynical sadness inside of me.

Top 3 complaints, thieves, thieves and thieves. Actually by this they’re getting buffed indirectly. So no, I do not.

From what I understand, AoE is getting nerfed because it is being used in situations where single target skills should be used instead. While I do not see any complaints about AoE, but lots about thieves, I get the impression that the developers have a box that says “this is how this class should be played” and playing the class outside of that box is not how they intended it to be played and therefore will be nerfed.

It’s simple: if it’s not utterly ruining the days of a significant portion of the playerbase, ANet has absolutely no business pushing people away from a preferred playstyle – it is uselessly diminishing variety in the game and I get the feeling these are famous last words on the same order as ghostcrawler’s famous “we’re making radical changes to healing in cataclysm” that resulted in a 20% drop in big blue’s playerbase.

ANet is lost in their own numbers and not paying attention to their design and to the wants of the community.

There are entire specs based around AOE, the meta has been balanced around AOE over the entire development of the game, AOE tends to be focused into specific weapons (which means nerfing aoe means the irrelevance of these weapons). Even player balance is based on aoe (without strong aoe, the perma-stealth thief bunker becomes even MORE opd as it can’t be targeted!).

Nerfing AOE in general will completely destroy the balance of their game.

Then there are the other factors:

Nobody likes to feel significantly less powerful.
Many professions have a LOT of aoe skills, more mediocre single target, and players LIKE this variety.
Professions that do primarily single-target are already powerful and don’t need yet more buffs.

I’ve never felt listened to in any MMO I’ve played. Nor will I ever feel otherwise in future games.

There are hundreds, if not thousands, of players on the official forums, all screaming about their own personal pet peeves as if they were the single most game-breaking, soul-crushing issue in the history of video gaming. There are certainly thousands of other players in other venues across the Internet, doing the same thing. Perhaps one in fifty, at best of these players are both able and willing to present reasoned, considered points in a calm and rational manner and engage in sensible debate rather than pointless, bitter flaming and arguing.

No, I don’t feel like ArenaNet listens to me, or to players on the forums. And I’m totally cool with that.

i dont need to be validated here and have no interest in acting out because i dont get my way.

That said, yes they do listen (they have to at some point) but nothing implies that they have to always do things your way. As far as AoE is concerned, hopefully the nerf will only affect skills that are without a doubt imbalanced instead of blindly nerfing all AoE.

wildcode.5403:

From what I understand, AoE is getting nerfed because it is being used in situations where single target skills should be used instead. While I do not see any complaints about AoE, but lots about thieves, I get the impression that the developers have a box that says “this is how this class should be played” and playing the class outside of that box is not how they intended it to be played and therefore will be nerfed.

It’s being used in situations where single target skills should be used instead…

30-60 second cooldowns anyone?

5 static, non-customizable skills per weapon anyone?

Elementalist doesn’t get weapon swaps anyone?

The problem is the skill system, the way combat is designed, it’s a free-form mess.

The problem is not AoE. It’s ANet trying to blanket balance multiple game modes while avoiding any real balance work. They must have been hit hard with GW1 because they took a complete step backward with this game to the point where they dont even talk about the combat system or balancing.

In fact, they don’t even use the combat system to market this game. The grouping, combat, skills, traits, all really terrible. Very poor for an MMO game. It’s like Fisher Price: My first MMO.

Here’s some new lines for the marketing department..

“Battle your way through 80 homogeneous levels using a bountiful array of over 5 skills!”

" Guild Wars 2 is the only MMO in existence where grouping means absolutely nothing in terms of depth!"

" 60% of the time, traits work all of the time!"

wildcode.5403:

From what I understand, AoE is getting nerfed because it is being used in situations where single target skills should be used instead. While I do not see any complaints about AoE, but lots about thieves, I get the impression that the developers have a box that says “this is how this class should be played” and playing the class outside of that box is not how they intended it to be played and therefore will be nerfed.

I have an answer to that:

Was anyone complaining about aoes being used on single targets? (NO)

then who cares?!

We have entire trait lines not working, we have elementalists clinging for dear life to the last viable build that they now want to nerf (like many other professions that are not thief, guardian, or warrior), and they are getting anal about the fact that we are making good and full use of the toolkits provided to us?

yeah i feel listened to a lot.

How they could make us so upset without reading what we want and doing the opposite?

Anet lives in its own little bubble, like most software companies and politicans, haven’t got a clue what there players want.

Nerfing AoE, really, how many players want that? Like 0, zero, nought, no one…

Eles are extremly OP in wvw.. I play one and just own so much. It’s actually boring to play one becuase I can:

1. Get away at will
2. Kill anyone 1v1
3. With another skilled Ele – kill a 5 man easy.
4. With 4 Eles – oh boy – were talking 10 to 15 easy.

Plus

If we dont like the fight — we run away.

least thiefs only kill one person at a time. I can kill 3 to 4 easy.

I wouldnt mind more single target DD. I mean it’s easy being OP -

LordByron.8369:

yeah i feel listened to a lot.

How they could make us so upset without reading what we want and doing the opposite?

That’s optimistic.. look at the stickied loot thread (“perceived loot”) and then come back here. We idly chatter while the dev’s haven’t said squat for over 2 months, until today. That tells me that they haven’t even READ the posts let alone vaguely listened to our concerns. The irony of that is it was started by Anet – Stephane was the OP.

Oh yeh, we really feel listened to on here. [whistles]

IComeInPeace.1768:

Eles are extremly OP in wvw.. I play one and just own so much. It’s actually boring to play one becuase I can:

1. Get away at will
2. Kill anyone 1v1
3. With another skilled Ele – kill a 5 man easy.
4. With 4 Eles – oh boy – were talking 10 to 15 easy.

Plus

If we dont like the fight — we run away.

least thiefs only kill one person at a time. I can kill 3 to 4 easy.

I wouldnt mind more single target DD. I mean it’s easy being OP -

D/D is supposed to counter glass cannon burst specs. If you remove this counter, you simply legitimize hasted heartseeker and MUG+backstab builds.

D/D bunkers do absolute crap damage, and either spam CC or strip their boons and they get squished like bugs.

If anything, they should add more ready boon removal, they should not be destroying the synergy or already piddly damage of D/D as a build.

It’s not something to be abhorred, the 0/x/x/30/30 build for ele should be an example of how other builds should work, not dismantled more made useless.

Remind me, why does everyone think thieves are OP? They only have one source of stability and it’s one that reveals them. Stun them and then hit them 3 times. If you die to bad zerkers burst theives then you have no right to complain, at all.

IComeInPeace.1768:

Eles are extremly OP in wvw.. I play one and just own so much. It’s actually boring to play one becuase I can:

1. Get away at will
2. Kill anyone 1v1
3. With another skilled Ele – kill a 5 man easy.
4. With 4 Eles – oh boy – were talking 10 to 15 easy.

Plus

If we dont like the fight — we run away.

least thiefs only kill one person at a time. I can kill 3 to 4 easy.

I wouldnt mind more single target DD. I mean it’s easy being OP -

i would pay to make a mod check if you really played an ele and see you banned for trolling otherwise.
I bet youi never touched an ele you are so easy to spot….

thieves pretending to play ele are so old to read….

@write:
Because they don t give you a chance toreact.
You can play on prediction but that is bad for most pvp games.

Its the base concept of pvp games that tells you:
-reaction time needed
-how to balance moves that you cannot react

Thieves just ignores those things with 1 second kills + stealth
The class is bad designed it doesn t need a mindless NERF it needs a redesign.

About major features i feel like they listen, but it feels like they don’t listen to class balancing as much.

No l don’t feel listened to, and I don’t think anybody else is listened to either.

ArenaNet seem to be steering the game towards what they want and ignoring the player base.

It could all go very wobbly for them if they’re not careful.

We are the people who they should be looking after, and with some of the up and coming games out this year, there could be a mass exodus fron Guild Wars ll.

I think ArenaNet takes it’s player base for granted, I love this game but I’m slowly being turned away, I’ve never seen a complaint about AoEs being too powerful or that “kiting” while your group uses a waypoint was ruining anyones experience in-game, in turn I think ArenaNet is going to make dungeons a lot less friendly, all the while ignoring the legitimate complaints from the people who actually play the game.

Honestly, it’s beginning to feel like they don’t even care about the players.

Nobody complains about AoE, they nerf it.

Everyone complains about something (use any example you want here) and they leave it in game.

With the exception of things like culling, Events, maybe legendary (yet to be seen) precursors, and perhaps bots (which hurt their bottom line), they seem intent on designing a game they want to play.

Everyone else is either forced to play the game the way they decide it’s going to be played, or quit.

It seems like it’s going to take 50% of the players quitting before they start to listen to us.

At least the D3 team actually listens to the playerbase now.

Depending on changes of the last months? Not really. But I’m a child with special needs- Also that focussing on Combat & Rewards was not what I was expecting for ‘strenghtening the core game’…

It’s interesting because the general consensus on the wvwvw forums if you asked anyone is that aoe skills aren’t affective enough. Pretty much every one wants the 5 player hit cap removed.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

There are hundreds, if not thousands, of players on the official forums, all screaming about their own personal pet peeves as if they were the single most game-breaking, soul-crushing issue in the history of video gaming. There are certainly thousands of other players in other venues across the Internet, doing the same thing. Perhaps one in fifty, at best of these players are both able and willing to present reasoned, considered points in a calm and rational manner and engage in sensible debate rather than pointless, bitter flaming and arguing.

No, I don’t feel like ArenaNet listens to me, or to players on the forums. And I’m totally cool with that.

This man speaks the truth. ArenaNet should not listen to players in the forum.

Erasculio.2914:

DevilLordLaser.8619:

There are hundreds, if not thousands, of players on the official forums, all screaming about their own personal pet peeves as if they were the single most game-breaking, soul-crushing issue in the history of video gaming. There are certainly thousands of other players in other venues across the Internet, doing the same thing. Perhaps one in fifty, at best of these players are both able and willing to present reasoned, considered points in a calm and rational manner and engage in sensible debate rather than pointless, bitter flaming and arguing.

No, I don’t feel like ArenaNet listens to me, or to players on the forums. And I’m totally cool with that.

This man speaks the truth. ArenaNet should not listen to players in the forum.

People I know that didn’t leave share all my points of view.
They still can play and have fun, but they agree with what I dislike about the game (poor gameplay above all).
So yeah, feel free to ignore them too.

We still have DR, terrible open world loot (No loot at all most of the time :/ ) and the RNG is just stupid. And these are things many players have been complaining about for quite sometime and quite vocally I might add.

BUT no whats getting the nerf bat to the knees? AOE. Because everybody hates and complains about the OPness of AOE they knew we needed it nerfed for our own safety! I saw 30 threads complain about it last wee…….. Oh wait no one complained about AOE….

So no I don’t feel they don’t listen to the player base at all and the live stream didn’t help them at all. Its sad cause I had really high hopes for this game and now its been shot down by Gem store, Magic find and nerf bat flak cannons….

At least I got my $120+ plus worth of time out of it already :/

Yes, they listen (read) everything, evidently.

Being listened to and getting things your way are separate things, for anyone who needs a reminder – keep things in perspective: being a gamer doesn’t qualify you for a position of “game designer by proxy”.

I have every confidence ANet is trying hard to keep improving the game where they feel it’s needed, based on feedback, but ultimately based on their obvious experience in designing the finest MMO so far.

Goettel.4389:

Yes, they listen (read) everything, evidently.

Being listened to and getting things your way are separate things, for anyone who needs a reminder – keep things in perspective: being a gamer doesn’t qualify you for a position of “game designer by proxy”.

I have every confidence ANet is trying hard to keep improving the game where they feel it’s needed, based on feedback, but ultimately based on their obvious experience in designing the finest MMO so far.

Lost shores was such a great patch, right?

When you design a meta around numerous spawns and high aoe damage for years, including professions and weapon sets specializing in this, this is not something to simply develop buyer’s remorse over and abandon in the blink of an eye.

It will, guaranteed, cause more balance issues in the change than exist today, and in the process place in irrelevance for long periods those professions and weapon sets which once provided powerful aoe.

I agree with the conspiracy theory: it’s about once again lowering loot from large pulls to push people to the cash shop.

I will wait for one more patch, and if I see it show the level of customer-neglect i’ve seen in the past two, i’m putting in a refund ticket and packing on my way.

I didn’t mention the Lost Shores patch or event, and nothing about it bothered me to be honest. I did try the events, didn’t like ‘em, then moved on to doing stuff I do like, which is tons. It didn’t change my perception of ANet reading mine and everyone else’s forum posts.

As an ele the only way i can counter a thief that is constantly in stealth is to drop AoE’s where he stealthed. In these forums, when people complain about OP thieves in stealth, one of constant advice you’ll get is to use AoE’s.

With AoE’s being nerfed, i feel like Anet is trying to say “too many thieves are dying, so lets increase their survivability by nerfing AoE’s”.

So to answer OP’s question. Yes, i do feel like i’m being listened to.

Nope. We complain endlessly about LFG, Thieves, etc, but apparently AoE and rezz rushing are far bigger problems. I’m not sure where these guys get their priorities but it’s certainly not from players posting here on forums.

That sort of begs the question, why have a forum?

plasmacutter.2709:

“Lost shores was such a great patch, right?”

“I agree with the conspiracy theory: it’s about once again lowering loot from large pulls to push people to the cash shop.”

“I will wait for one more patch, and if I see it show the level of customer-neglect i’ve seen in the past two, i’m putting in a refund ticket and packing on my way.”

Right? Lost Shores patch was amazing……..

I’ve had one of the game designers tell me that they want to avoid that perception of being a cash shop game but everytime they talk about the game or release a new update it becomes more of a cash shop game.

I’m definitely in the same boat as you dude. This isn’t the game I was told I was getting in the manifesto