Guild Wars 2

Me, my friend and my girlfriend bought the game about a month ago. We have all enjoyed it, both the PvE and WvW aspects. It’s fun, and feels just like I want an MMO to feel, maybe a bit antisocial, but still social enough if you find the right people.

Now, I get a whole different impression from playing the game and reading the forums. Everywhere ingame, I meet people that like the game and find it fun to play, i discuss stuff with them, play with them and have a good time. That’s why I don’t understand why people on the forums are whining just because they are introducing a new tier of items.

This is a young game, of COURSE it is going to change. And that’s how i want it. I want a game that, even if i decide to quit, I can come back to and see that the world has changed and has more to offer. The last MMO where I felt like that was Ragnarok Online, a game that I quit and then took up again at least six times over the years, and every time I returned I saw that the game had evolved and developed, with new areas to explore and a different meta-game. I hear that it is ruined now, but that was because of new owners.

From what I read, it seems as if you guys have played this game for a while, crafted your legendary and now you’re on top. And you want it to stay that way. You don’t want the game to change, you don’t want them to try out new approaches, you don’t want other people to become better than you. You complain that you can’t farm, you complain that you can’t do older dungeons anymore, you complain that some people got good weapons, etc etc.

I just have one thing to say: Get over it. If you want a world that doesn’t change, why don’t you play on a Vanilla WoW server, or some other private server that’s static and pure. This game has no monthly cost, they need to add new content and change the game every now and then both to attract new customers and get old costumers to come back. Really, you guys are just complaining that you actually have to PLAY THE GAME now, instead of just sitting there with your legendaries doing nothing.

There are a lot of reasons to critisize the developers, but kittening over ascended gear and the new dungeons is just pathetic and anti-fun. Come back in half a year when we’ve seen the effects that these changes have brought, as well as giving the developers opportunity to fix whatever is wrong, but please stop complaining about hypothetical scenarios all the time. Quit if you want to, I don’t blame you for quitting, but please cut down on the “durr i’m desapointed goodbye gw2” threads.

Basically they like the idea of MMO’s but don’t like the grind. So they want a more arcade type game.

I think they should play games more suited for them, ie: league of legends, and fighter beat em ups, where there is no gear.

They forget, if we all had the same gear out the gate, what’s the point of even having gear? Cosmetics? Yea we’ll see how long that holds your average MMO player.

DegoLocc.5976:

Basically they like the idea of MMO’s but don’t like the grind. So they want a more arcade type game.

I think they should play games more suited for them, ie: league of legends, and fighter beat em ups, where there is no gear.

They forget, if we all had the same gear out the gate, what’s the point of even having gear? Cosmetics? Yea we’ll see how long that holds your average MMO player.

Last I heard, 7 years+. Guild Wars 1 says it all.

Orion.7264:

DURR HURR IF THERES NO TREADMILL FOR MAX GEAR A GAME IS STATIC DURR HURR

We’ve seen the road this goes down in MMO’s, none of the scenarios we present are hypothetical. They are based on past evidence and experience. Good luck with your dying game.

Name one successful true MMO without gear progression.

GW1 was not a MMO, it was a co opRPG with some multiplayer tacked on.

Gw2 is an MMO, and a good one I might add. I am not surprised that Anet is thinking ahead and seeing the big picture for the betterment of their players and the game in the long run.

Derk.3189:

DegoLocc.5976:

Basically they like the idea of MMO’s but don’t like the grind. So they want a more arcade type game.

I think they should play games more suited for them, ie: league of legends, and fighter beat em ups, where there is no gear.

They forget, if we all had the same gear out the gate, what’s the point of even having gear? Cosmetics? Yea we’ll see how long that holds your average MMO player.

Last I heard, 7 years+. Guild Wars 1 says it all.

But guild wars 1 is NOT an MMO, it’s not even marketed as one.
Playing guild wars 1 hardly means you’re an MMO player. lol.

DegoLocc.5976:

Orion.7264:

DURR HURR IF THERES NO TREADMILL FOR MAX GEAR A GAME IS STATIC DURR HURR

We’ve seen the road this goes down in MMO’s, none of the scenarios we present are hypothetical. They are based on past evidence and experience. Good luck with your dying game.

Name one successful true MMO without gear progression.

GW1 was not a MMO, it was a co opRPG with some multiplayer tacked on.

Gw2 is an MMO, and a good one I might add. I am not surprised that Anet is thinking ahead and seeing the big picture for the betterment of their players and the game in the long run.

Yeah no, all those multiplayer aspects of GW1 were clearly tacked on.
Really?
The only reason people say “durr gw1 isnt an mmo” is because it isn’t an open world MMO.
It’s still technically an MMORPG.
Massively (yes,theres tons of players to play with,everywhere) Multiplayer (self explanatory) Online (duh) Role Playing Game (clearly)

DegoLocc.5976:

Derk.3189:

DegoLocc.5976:

Basically they like the idea of MMO’s but don’t like the grind. So they want a more arcade type game.

I think they should play games more suited for them, ie: league of legends, and fighter beat em ups, where there is no gear.

They forget, if we all had the same gear out the gate, what’s the point of even having gear? Cosmetics? Yea we’ll see how long that holds your average MMO player.

Last I heard, 7 years+. Guild Wars 1 says it all.

But guild wars 1 is NOT an MMO, it’s not even marketed as one.
Playing guild wars 1 hardly means you’re an MMO player. lol.

Define MMO.

Gw1 is not an mmo….and that is relevant how? How does it invalidate the assumption that cosmetic is enough?

Both gw and gw2 are multiplayer online titles.

Evagal.2584:

DegoLocc.5976:

Orion.7264:

DURR HURR IF THERES NO TREADMILL FOR MAX GEAR A GAME IS STATIC DURR HURR

We’ve seen the road this goes down in MMO’s, none of the scenarios we present are hypothetical. They are based on past evidence and experience. Good luck with your dying game.

Name one successful true MMO without gear progression.

GW1 was not a MMO, it was a co opRPG with some multiplayer tacked on.

Gw2 is an MMO, and a good one I might add. I am not surprised that Anet is thinking ahead and seeing the big picture for the betterment of their players and the game in the long run.

Yeah no, all those multiplayer aspects of GW1 were clearly tacked on.
Really?
The only reason people say “durr gw1 isnt an mmo” is because it isn’t an open world MMO.
It’s still technically an MMORPG.
Massively (yes,theres tons of players to play with,everywhere) Multiplayer (self explanatory) Online (duh) Role Playing Game (clearly)

No, people say it’s not an MMO, because it’s just not. It’s even marketed to players as a CORPG.

So, you really have no leg to stand on in that regard. But please continue to tell me how it’s an MMO.

Or for that matter, just name one true MMO that there is no gear progression, and all players are equal.

You talked about “proven experience and evidence” supporting your claim that gear progression is bad for MMO’s. So let’s see it? I’ll wait.

Because from where I am sitting, ALL MMO’s have stat progression. And it’s a proven science that it DOES work. And it works VERY well.

Speaking for myself I simply want the game ANet advertised, marketed and promised in their now famous manifesto … unreasonable expectation I know…

Terok.7315:

DegoLocc.5976:

Derk.3189:

DegoLocc.5976:

Basically they like the idea of MMO’s but don’t like the grind. So they want a more arcade type game.

I think they should play games more suited for them, ie: league of legends, and fighter beat em ups, where there is no gear.

They forget, if we all had the same gear out the gate, what’s the point of even having gear? Cosmetics? Yea we’ll see how long that holds your average MMO player.

Last I heard, 7 years+. Guild Wars 1 says it all.

But guild wars 1 is NOT an MMO, it’s not even marketed as one.
Playing guild wars 1 hardly means you’re an MMO player. lol.

Define MMO.

MMO stands for MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE. Game but we all know it goes much deeper than that.

GW1 was heavily instanced coRPG, and the guys who made it marketed it as such.

And the point is, Name one successful REAL MMO, that has no stat progression. And I will stop telling players that they are looking for their casual game in the wrong genre.

DegoLocc.5976:

Basically they like the idea of MMO’s but don’t like the grind. So they want a more arcade type game.

I think they should play games more suited for them, ie: league of legends, and fighter beat em ups, where there is no gear.

They forget, if we all had the same gear out the gate, what’s the point of even having gear? Cosmetics? Yea we’ll see how long that holds your average MMO player.

I dont want a arcade style game. I just dont want to end up in a game where the whole point of playing that game is to continually play chase the gear.

Lets see played UO for years with no gear grind.

Lets see played EQ for years with no gear grind. Game was to vast and open to have what is considered a “gear grind”.

Lets see played Dark Age of Camelot for years with no gear grind. They added a gear grind called Trials of Atlantis, and right after that the game went downhill and started losing subs.

Sadly, it would seem to me your more of a “WoW was my first MMO” type of person, where you don’t know anything but a gear grind so you have decided MMO=gear grind.

And lets also try and remember that wow introduced all them rts/beat em up players to the MMO world.

NaughtyProwler.8653:

For some reason all I see is:

Hemah.4361:

Deerp deirp deerpa deerpo drep derep dwerp derpi derpu deorp duurp durpii darp dorp doerp.

Dude, don’t quote the entire original message, if you aren’t even going to add to it :i

A static game? I think you meant static stats. If stats were the game I probably wouldn’t be here.

DegoLocc.5976:

You talked about “proven experience and evidence” supporting your claim that gear progression is bad for MMO’s. So let’s see it? I’ll wait.

*sigh…

No it´s not bad for mmo, as clearly demonstrated by the infamous WoW.

It´s just bad for this mmo. Why? For starters the core fanbase of this game has been one that wants power plateu.

The amount of things wrong with the OP’s post is so monumental that I can’t even read it all the way through.

Treeline.3865:

NaughtyProwler.8653:

For some reason all I see is:

Hemah.4361:

Deerp deirp deerpa deerpo drep derep dwerp derpi derpu deorp duurp durpii darp dorp doerp.

Dude, don’t quote the entire original message, if you aren’t even going to add to it :i

Oops. I forgot to add my 2 cents.

Globamafoo!

DegoLocc.5976:

And the point is, Name one successful REAL MMO, that has no stat progression. And I will stop telling players that they are looking for their casual game in the wrong genre.

Because everything that´s been succesful in the past is automaticaly succesful in the future. And nothing new can ever be as good.

Gwartham Haldane.8459:

DegoLocc.5976:

Basically they like the idea of MMO’s but don’t like the grind. So they want a more arcade type game.

I think they should play games more suited for them, ie: league of legends, and fighter beat em ups, where there is no gear.

They forget, if we all had the same gear out the gate, what’s the point of even having gear? Cosmetics? Yea we’ll see how long that holds your average MMO player.

I dont want a arcade style game. I just dont want to end up in a game where the whole point of playing that game is to continually play chase the gear.

Lets see played UO for years with no gear grind.

Lets see played EQ for years with no gear grind. Game was to vast and open to have what is considered a “gear grind”.

Lets see played Dark Age of Camelot for years with no gear grind. They added a gear grind called Trials of Atlantis, and right after that the game went downhill and started losing subs.

Sadly, it would seem to me your more of a “WoW was my first MMO” type of person, where you don’t know anything but a gear grind so you have decided MMO=gear grind.

And lets also try and remember that wow introduced all them rts/beat em up players to the MMO world.

Actually I don’t play WOW, but played the other three you mentioned, and they all had stat progression, where higher level players with high level gear would pwn your face. AND for DAoC TOA brought stat changes? LOL, I played DAoC from beta, and there was ALWAYS stat progression, don’t know what you’re talking about, hell frontiers expansion wasn’t even the first to have stat progression. Realm Rank? Stat progression before that too. What are you on about? I think someone thinks they know something they really don’t.

NaughtyProwler.8653:

Globamafoo!

You sir, have a valid point there!

DegoLocc.5976:

And the point is, Name one successful REAL MMO, that has no stat progression. And I will stop telling players that they are looking for their casual game in the wrong genre.

City of Heroes. Any build was viable. You didn’t need super-stat Invention Origin enhancements to be awesome. You could play the game with NO enhancements and still be awesome.

DegoLocc.5976:

Terok.7315:

DegoLocc.5976:

Derk.3189:

DegoLocc.5976:

Basically they like the idea of MMO’s but don’t like the grind. So they want a more arcade type game.

I think they should play games more suited for them, ie: league of legends, and fighter beat em ups, where there is no gear.

They forget, if we all had the same gear out the gate, what’s the point of even having gear? Cosmetics? Yea we’ll see how long that holds your average MMO player.

Last I heard, 7 years+. Guild Wars 1 says it all.

But guild wars 1 is NOT an MMO, it’s not even marketed as one.
Playing guild wars 1 hardly means you’re an MMO player. lol.

Define MMO.

MMO stands for MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE. Game but we all know it goes much deeper than that.

GW1 was heavily instanced coRPG, and the guys who made it marketed it as such.

And the point is, Name one successful REAL MMO, that has no stat progression. And I will stop telling players that they are looking for their casual game in the wrong genre.

Hahaha keep telling yourself that. They marketed the game that way so they don’t need to directly be confrontational to WoW. Did Blizzard see GW1 as an MMO? Yes. Did Arenanet want to compete for the same audience as WoW? Yes. Did unjaded GW1 players know they were playing an MMO? Yes.

You’re exactly the type of customer Arenanet wants. Easily convinced through PR and uninformed.

Nobody wants a static game. People want static vertical progression. If I quit the game for a year, I want to come back to find that the world has changed. I want to come back to find that there are new skills, weapon types, maybe even new classes, none of which are inherently more powerful than the ones that I have now.

I don’t want to come back in a year to find out that my character has been downgraded from 100% of maximum to less than 100% of maximum. Doesn’t matter whether it’s being downgraded to 95% or 40%, either. Do not want to see it, qualitatively.

DegoLocc.5976:

Evagal.2584:

DegoLocc.5976:

Orion.7264:

DURR HURR IF THERES NO TREADMILL FOR MAX GEAR A GAME IS STATIC DURR HURR

We’ve seen the road this goes down in MMO’s, none of the scenarios we present are hypothetical. They are based on past evidence and experience. Good luck with your dying game.

Name one successful true MMO without gear progression.

GW1 was not a MMO, it was a co opRPG with some multiplayer tacked on.

Gw2 is an MMO, and a good one I might add. I am not surprised that Anet is thinking ahead and seeing the big picture for the betterment of their players and the game in the long run.

Yeah no, all those multiplayer aspects of GW1 were clearly tacked on.
Really?
The only reason people say “durr gw1 isnt an mmo” is because it isn’t an open world MMO.
It’s still technically an MMORPG.
Massively (yes,theres tons of players to play with,everywhere) Multiplayer (self explanatory) Online (duh) Role Playing Game (clearly)

No, people say it’s not an MMO, because it’s just not. It’s even marketed to players as a CORPG.

So, you really have no leg to stand on in that regard. But please continue to tell me how it’s an MMO.

Or for that matter, just name one true MMO that there is no gear progression, and all players are equal.

You talked about “proven experience and evidence” supporting your claim that gear progression is bad for MMO’s. So let’s see it? I’ll wait.

Because from where I am sitting, ALL MMO’s have stat progression. And it’s a proven science that it DOES work. And it works VERY well.

Explain why having world instances limited to 100-200 players instead of eight players would have an effect on whether or not gear progression is a good idea.

“Everyone’s doing it” does not constitute an argument that everyone has to or even should do the same thing. If you can’t answer “Why?” without relying on that crutch, you don’t have an argument and you probably shouldn’t offer up your opinion.

Strang.8170:

DegoLocc.5976:

And the point is, Name one successful REAL MMO, that has no stat progression. And I will stop telling players that they are looking for their casual game in the wrong genre.

Because everything that´s been succesful in the past is automaticaly succesful in the future. And nothing new can ever be as good.

Take gear progression out the game, might as well take gear out the game, and then what do you have? Super smash bros on a large scale? Another arcade beat em up. Stat progression with gear, gives battles interesting variables.

The stat change affects the future of the game. Players will be mostly grinding in content gated towards only high level players. And never revisiting low level areas to create meta events.

Before once you reach level 80 and get your exotics. You still had access to all the content and can play for fun on new skins.

Grinding the same high level areas for gear you must have to play future content is not fun.

“Basically they like the idea of MMO’s but don’t like the grind. So they want a more arcade type game.”

Aren’t you the guy who argues that people only play FPS’ to level up?

Yeah sorry, stop square peg/round holing this argument.

We want an MMO without the gear grind.

I’m with the OP.

I want gear grind, raid calendar, damage meter, and gear score to keep all the scrubs away,

I also want star pony for 20,000 gems.

Learn the meaning of STATIC and how a game can be STATIC or DYNAMIC without putting massive grinding in it before you create a topic.

Sorry but only people without self skills can pray for gear grinding.Coz if you can’t trust your own skill , you always rely on gear stats.

Gears only give you the win with more stats.

We don’t want nerds without a work who can play 20 hours in a day to get better gear than us and kill us without skill.

We want to be equal even we only can play 3-4 hours per day coz we can irl stuff to do so we can actually have some fun with actual skill.

GW2/ANet promissed to give that but turned from their word.

DegoLocc.5976:

Strang.8170:

DegoLocc.5976:

And the point is, Name one successful REAL MMO, that has no stat progression. And I will stop telling players that they are looking for their casual game in the wrong genre.

Because everything that´s been succesful in the past is automaticaly succesful in the future. And nothing new can ever be as good.

Take gear progression out the game, might as well take gear out the game, and then what do you have? Super smash bros on a large scale? Another arcade beat em up. Stat progression with gear, gives battles interesting variables.

“Stat progression with gear, gives battles interesting variables”
Horizontal progression that has more interchangeable skills and combos gives more interesting variables.

Their are no interesting variables in vertical progression. It’s all about overpowering your enemy and not skill.

to those who haven’t played gw1 and saw what they have to offer, they really don’t understand unless they have the capacity for critical thinking and analysis as well as comparison in being well experienced in a LOT of video games – not only mmos.

OP, I don’t think anyone wants a “static world.” When you talk about how Ragnarok had new places to explore and such, that’s great. I think people are upset because they were told that the world would indeed change, but the gear they had would never become worse in relation to others. I believe the president of Anet has been quoted many times that a person who spent more time than you would only look cooler in the game, not actually be more powerful.

It is not about “you should have seen it coming.” The reason people did not see it coming was because they were specifically told that it would never come.

I feel really stupid. I advertised the game and brought friends in telling them that gear would only progress horizontally. That was a key premise in the game design, and my friends and I bought the game because of that premise. Now I feel like a liar, and I feel awful about people spending money on a faulty promise. It’s like I introduced them to con artists.

I was pretty upset, but I think I’m over it. I can’t get a refund because I bought the game from a retailer, but I guess that gives me the luxury to stick around.

DegoLocc.5976:

Terok.7315:

DegoLocc.5976:

Derk.3189:

DegoLocc.5976:

Basically they like the idea of MMO’s but don’t like the grind. So they want a more arcade type game.

I think they should play games more suited for them, ie: league of legends, and fighter beat em ups, where there is no gear.

They forget, if we all had the same gear out the gate, what’s the point of even having gear? Cosmetics? Yea we’ll see how long that holds your average MMO player.

Last I heard, 7 years+. Guild Wars 1 says it all.

But guild wars 1 is NOT an MMO, it’s not even marketed as one.
Playing guild wars 1 hardly means you’re an MMO player. lol.

Define MMO.

And the point is, Name one successful REAL MMO, that has no stat progression. And I will stop telling players that they are looking for their casual game in the wrong genre.

I don’t think I can. “Real” MMO to you seems to be a world of warcraft-esque game (i.e. treadmill). So trying to fine a non-treadmill game given your understanding of “real” MMO is a pointless endeavor.

Onshidesigns.1069:

DegoLocc.5976:

Strang.8170:

DegoLocc.5976:

And the point is, Name one successful REAL MMO, that has no stat progression. And I will stop telling players that they are looking for their casual game in the wrong genre.

Because everything that´s been succesful in the past is automaticaly succesful in the future. And nothing new can ever be as good.

Take gear progression out the game, might as well take gear out the game, and then what do you have? Super smash bros on a large scale? Another arcade beat em up. Stat progression with gear, gives battles interesting variables.

“Stat progression with gear, gives battles interesting variables”
Horizontal progression that has more interchangeable skills and combos gives more interesting variables.

Their are no interesting variables in vertical progression. It’s all about overpowering your enemy and not skill.

That’s a matter of opinion, I find league of legends extremely boring, and unrewarding. I am sure, a good portion of MMO players feel the same way as I regarding the matter, cosmetic clothes, and limited interchangable skills are not enough to quench my endgame thirst, In fact, I like coming up as the underdog, while I am out geared, it’s the reason I have been playing since launch and just hit 80, I love the challenge of being the underdog. And there isn’t anything you, or extra credit helium voiced badly drawn cartoons can tell me about power creep being bad. I love the power creep, gives me something to try and kill for sport.

Progression != Grind

Terok.7315:

DegoLocc.5976:

Terok.7315:

DegoLocc.5976:

Derk.3189:

DegoLocc.5976:

Basically they like the idea of MMO’s but don’t like the grind. So they want a more arcade type game.

I think they should play games more suited for them, ie: league of legends, and fighter beat em ups, where there is no gear.

They forget, if we all had the same gear out the gate, what’s the point of even having gear? Cosmetics? Yea we’ll see how long that holds your average MMO player.

Last I heard, 7 years+. Guild Wars 1 says it all.

But guild wars 1 is NOT an MMO, it’s not even marketed as one.
Playing guild wars 1 hardly means you’re an MMO player. lol.

Define MMO.

And the point is, Name one successful REAL MMO, that has no stat progression. And I will stop telling players that they are looking for their casual game in the wrong genre.

I don’t think I can. “Real” MMO to you seems to be a world of warcraft-esque game (i.e. treadmill). So trying to fine a non-treadmill game given your understanding of “real” MMO is a pointless endeavor.

world of warcraft is a horrible example of what an MMO should be, but it is still an MMO by definition, while GW1 clearly is not.

And aside from GW1 name another game you feel is an MMO, that has no gear progression, and you’ll be pressed to. And not just by my definition, but by the definition of the genre itself.

There are none, and there is a reason. Without it, it would just be a hop in and play arcade game flavor of the week. MMO’s force ppl to keep coming back, and some of us like to work our way up the ladder. Some of us will play this game for years. And new gear stats are breathes of fresh air.

GW2 already said they would raise level cap at some point, will you all be up in arms when that happens too, because all level 80 gear will be crap at that point, it will be about the level 90 gear. That’s how it works, WOW, didn’t start that, they copied the formula from much older MMO’s.

Treeline.3865:

Progression != Grind

lol, although basic, not many will understand that symbol. not everybody is in IT

Bread.7516:

Treeline.3865:

Progression != Grind

lol, although basic, not many will understand that symbol. not everybody is in IT

ive seen it as <> too.

So I name an MMO with no gear grind and DegoLocc continues to tell us we’re looking for casual games in the wrong genre? Looking for an argument much?

@Dego ;

Mind learning the difference between MMO and MMORPG?!? Coz it’s not the same.

MMO-Action / MMO-Fps etc. are here as different MMO types which are don’t have item grinding.

Also there are lots of MMORPG without grinding or minimized grinding.

“REAL” MMO..Lol which is has to be a MMO played by millions right?Coz a MMO with low player number but which is a great game doesn’t count.

Also as already been told , PROGRESSION isn’t equal to GRINDING GEAR.You actually have no idea the words you are using so pls don’t.

Go drink some beer.You need it.

Bread.7516:

Treeline.3865:

Progression != Grind

lol, although basic, not many will understand that symbol. not everybody is in IT

kitten, I didn’t even think about that haha, thank you
Edit: But too late to edit it

Anyways: Gear progression is not the same as grinding!

No. I just don’t want to be forced to grind dungeons to compete in wvwvw.

Degolocc conveniently calls GW1 not an MMO. classic debating tactic, lol.

It’s a very simple concept and it boggles my mind that people still can’t grasp it.

Yes, a certain amount of vertical progression keeps the world from overwhelming players at first, and creates an investment/attachment in each character. The thing is, we already have 80 levels and five gear qualities to do that, and a LOT of people think that’s plenty, if not too much already.

We were told multiple times that there would be an easy-to-reach power plateau, and instead of continuing upward toward sheer power we would then explore outward in every direction, exploring new areas, gaining new skills, tricking ourselves out with shiny gear.

As an aside, I actually think the biggest contributor to the “no endgame progression” feeling is the removal of skill capturing.

DegoLocc.5976:

Take gear progression out the game, might as well take gear out the game, and then what do you have? Super smash bros on a large scale? Another arcade beat em up. Stat progression with gear, gives battles interesting variables.

Cosmetic progression(it´s enough, and frankly i don´t know why you bought the game if it´s not…), horizontal progression: trying out new playstyles (without it taking weeks to regear), trying out new professions(without it taking months to level and gear them up), actualy experiencing the whole world (i call bullkitten on many of the players claiming to have done all the content)…vertical gear treadmill is not the one and only way of making progression.

We give the game a power plateu, we have a massive persistent ever changing world where the character you created and the amount of skill you can play with it determine outcome of your battles. Where you as a players are what matters, instead of data on a spreadsheet.

Treeline.3865:

Progression != Grind

No progression=bored at endgame, move on to another game, which is what casuals tend to do anyway.

GADefence.5634:

“Basically they like the idea of MMO’s but don’t like the grind. So they want a more arcade type game.”

Aren’t you the guy who argues that people only play FPS’ to level up?

Yeah sorry, stop square peg/round holing this argument.

We want an MMO without the gear grind.

They want Progression as long as it’s horizontal. Players who want a skill based game.

On FPS and levels: No FPS should ever have levels period. All weapons should be available from the start. This is what made Socom 1,2,3 and Counter strike really good games.

vince.5937:

So I name an MMO with no gear grind and DegoLocc continues to tell us we’re looking for casual games in the wrong genre? Looking for an argument much?

imo there seems to be a very different understanding of “hardcore” in mmos. They seem to think grinding and farming a lot means hard core; I dont think this is the case. In gaming, universally – i think hardcore applies to people who strive to improve their skill in a game, time investment comes hand-in-hand with it but improving oneself in the game is what makes a player hardcore

DegoLocc.5976:

Treeline.3865:

Progression != Grind

No progression=bored at endgame, move on to another game, which is what casuals tend to do anyway.

Oh, but almighty GW2 is ALL endgame, right from the get go. You love adhering to what the company says SO much so you better believe this too.

Its simple a game without gear progression allows one to approach it like a casual sport. Like say basketball, you played it in your college years and then stop, but after you graduated, and have kids, you can still play it with your children even though their approach to the game may be different.

Vertical gear progression is like trying to play with your kids, but your children have rocket boots and an armor suit that can tackle people with no foul. Is it fun for the kids, hell yes, is it fun for you down the road, hell no (simply because you cant compete).

In a simple phrase ," Players who play for today, enjoy the ascended gear progression , players who play for tomorrow, are horrified at what it brings."

Progression and endgame can be made by putting in new PvE/PvP maps , new dungeons , new world bosses , new lore etc.

There is never been a gear grinding need for a game to have an endgame with progression.

Strang.8170:

DegoLocc.5976:

Take gear progression out the game, might as well take gear out the game, and then what do you have? Super smash bros on a large scale? Another arcade beat em up. Stat progression with gear, gives battles interesting variables.

Cosmetic progression(it´s enough, and frankly i don´t know why you bought the game if it´s not…), horizontal progression: trying out new playstyles (without it taking weeks to regear), trying out new professions(without it taking months to level and gear them up), actualy experiencing the whole world (i call bullkitten on many of the players claiming to have done all the content)…vertical gear treadmill is not the one and only way of making progression.

We give the game a power plateu, we have a massive persistent ever changing world where the character you created and the amount of skill you can play with it determine outcome of your battles. Where you as a players are what matters, instead of data on a spreadsheet.

It’s simply not enough, and I bought this game because despite what their “manifesto said” I knew the moment they announced that they would raise level cap down the road that this game would be your standard grind. And that is good for the games longevity.

You guys can’t name any other TRUE MMO, that doesn’t have gear stat progression, because there are none. If it didn’t have that no one would play for years and years and years. GW1 was a fluke, it wasn’t an MMO and there is no other game like it. Either move on, or go back to playing it. And just accept what most MMO’s players want because that is who Anet is wisely after.