Guild Wars 2

And here I am not talking of supporting as in buying stuff from the Black Lion Trading Company.

Personally, my overall experience of the game is, well, good. The look is great, I like the combat, I like the world, I like the lore, but the game is still far from perfect.

Looking back on the teaser trailers, I can tell you guys that there is a lot of content that I thought would’ve been implemented, but isn’t.

I saw the charr tanks, the asura golems and thought that getting into those and doing combat from them would be nice since it seemed like you could use these vehicles against your enemies.
- We used to be able to get into every little cannon that stood around. That also meant that there was a limited number of vehicles available, but it sufficed.

I had hoped that the “Dignity, Charm and Intimidation” personalities could be chosen as different ways of progressing your character, the way that we answered or concluded parts of our storylines or Dynamic Events, etc.

There is just a lot of content that could be awesome to see implemented (more than just aesthetically, i.e. the tanks) but it seems like people are afraid to get all that content implemented because “It doesn’t fit in Tyria” (which it kinda does, considering that the charrs HAVE made these tanks, and the Asurans HAVE made their golems. I mean, why not?) – And the ships… yeah, they should sail. Just make it seem like the world is actually in motion, really.

- Now, I agree. This is beginning to sound like an “Everything that is wrong with GW2” kind of thread, but let me tell you:
GW2 has my support!

It is an absolutely stunning game. They implemented new gameplay designs and concepts, which many people have come to like (those are not the problem in the game, it is merely the rewards people get from doing them, which seems to bother them). They raised the standard of future MMO’s, and what we can allow ourselves to expect from MMO’s in the future, or so I think at least.
- I am excited about the future of GW2, and I think that when they have implemented all the zones in Tyria that are currently closed off to us, when they’ve implemented Cantha and Elona, I think that GW2 will be a whole different game. Or rather: That it will have improved on itself.

- So tell me: Does Guild Wars 2 have your support?

Are you asking me if I enjoy the game?

Yes, I enjoy the game. It has a permanent place on my hard drive, even if I don’t log in every single day; there are other games that need playing too, after all.

I can’t imagine why anyone would be here if they didn’t enjoy playing the game.

Support, in the context you describe, is worthless.

Play games you like because you like them, nothing is gained by turning games into some kind of faction you represent(or ‘support’).

All it does is turn any conversation into “fanboys vs haters”.

I’m not a brand loyalist, personally. IRL, I buy what I think is best at the time, though that’s mostly because I don’t have financial investments in those companies. If ArenaNet offered stock and I owned some, yes, I’d be a loyalist.

That said, I like the game so far and think it’s well done. Kudos. I think it makes a strong argument for buying a game from this company again in the future.

Sinifair.1026:

Does Guild Wars 2 have your support?

Yes 100%

I’m happy to see that GW2 is doing well, even though I have stopped playing the game long ago. It has my spiritual support for being the best MMORPG currently on the market, if that accounts for anything at all.
Personally I don’t like the game anymore, but I still love the world and lore, so I’m excited to see where they take the game next. As an expert in living vicariously through others, watching an LP is almost as enjoyable to me as playing it myself. :P

LightningBlaze.4913:

Sinifair.1026:

Does Guild Wars 2 have your support?

Yes 100%

Same here! Except I have 140% support for GW2!

I’ve been playing the game daily since release, but I haven’t spent any real cash since I bought the game.

Show me what game is perfect… You will never see a perfect game. So get the word perfect out of your vocabulary.. I do support GW2. I love the game and it is fun for me.

I support the game (though I suspect that doesn’t come as a shock to those who have seen my posts lol).

I don’t, however, unconditionally support any game. So far, I think Anet has done well with updates, but there are a few trends I don’t like that I’m keeping an eye on.

Yes. Even though I make kitteny posts from time to time, that really only shows that I care about the game and have enough invested in it to want to see it succeed.

I would imagine that’s actually true of most negative posters.

There are various ways to “support” the game through regular play and forum posting.

These include bringing objective data to postings as much as possible, trying to be open to other perspectives, posting concerns, feedback (both in game and on forum), suggestions, reporting bugs, reporting bots, testing new items, helping other players in game (playing, questions, bugged encounter status), etcetera

That’s just part and parcel of being a “good” game citizen. I’m sure most of the player base fits that description.

Being an unconditional “fanboi” is not always good for the game or the community, because it does not bring a balanced viewpoint that may help identify issues and therefore help the game grow and/or improve.

Not advocating the opposite, because constant complaints without data or understanding the impact on the overall structure / culture of the game may often create so much “noise” that real concerns get lost in the signal.

Overall, GW2 has gotten my support in game, out of game, via the Gem Store (don’t ask), through various forums, and by trying to keep an objective, balanced eye on updates, community, and trends (both content and player reaction).

I’m curious to see where the game goes. If it heads in a direction that does not work for me, as with anything in life, I can accept, tolerate or vote with my feet.

In the end, I’m neither a rabid fanboi, nor a chronic complainer. Like most of the players, I’m just trying to be a “good” citizen.

I still can’t tell whether I think the developers are actually interested in following the philosophy of GW1 and trying to make their games better to prove that it can work – or if they are simply making their games more like generic MMO’s to sell copies and count their money.

If they are indeed doing the first, no matter how much I think they released the game too early or have major flaws in combat, I support them.

If, however, it is the second, then I don’t really give a kitten what happens to GW2.

clay.7849:

I still can’t tell whether I think the developers are actually interested in following the philosophy of GW1 and trying to make their games better to prove that it can work – or if they are simply making their games more like generic MMO’s to sell copies and count their money.

If they are indeed doing the first, no matter how much I think they released the game too early or have major flaws in combat, I support them.

If, however, it is the second, then I don’t really give a kitten what happens to GW2.

This is a really really interesting post.

I’m not so sure there are only two options here. Maybe they are neither trying to be like Guild Wars 1 or like WoW.

Yes, I do. I had other things to add to beef the post up a bit but it all boiled down to Yes. It’s not unconditional though. If it turns to crap I’ll stop.

And it was nice to see you visiting IoJ earlier today Vayne.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Support, in the context you describe, is worthless.

Play games you like because you like them, nothing is gained by turning games into some kind of faction you represent(or ‘support’).

All it does is turn any conversation into “fanboys vs haters”.

Well, then hate me for playing both GW2, GW, WoW, SWTOR and possibly for checking out Wildstar, when it comes out. Because I am no fanboy of one particular game.

- It does make sense in that you may have stated “Wow, GW2 feels so boring. The dungeons suck. There’s no end-game.” or some such, instead of being more like “GW2 introduces a lot of new gameplay aspects that are fun, but still needs time to improve.”
- I was merely wondering how many people actually appreciate the work put into it, and whether or not they realize that improving aspects of GW2 will take time, and is not done with the snap of a finger (which I find on the forums that many seem to believe).

goldenwing.8473:

There are various ways to “support” the game through regular play and forum posting.

These include bringing objective data to postings as much as possible, trying to be open to other perspectives, posting concerns, feedback (both in game and on forum), suggestions, reporting bugs, reporting bots, testing new items, helping other players in game (playing, questions, bugged encounter status), etcetera

That’s just part and parcel of being a “good” game citizen. I’m sure most of the player base fits that description.

I find it amusing that you would say that.
- Many suggestions are being put down merely because people say “This isn’t WoW.”

I saw a post suggesting the Druid as a class, where one guy said that GW2 wasn’t WoW.
- He might as well have said that it wasn’t GW, because Druids are part of the GW lore, but instead of making a valid argument, he chose to say that he had heard the term “Druid” being used in WoW.
- Many people on the forum are like that, and many good suggestions are being frowned upon because they have also been introduced in WoW (it’s like saying that combat shouldn’t be in GW2 because it was in WoW, instead of seeing how the aspect could be improved).

- And if people have such paranoia then GW2 will never reach its full potential.
Those kind of players do, in some sense, not support GW2.

Eladriel.7295:

Show me what game is perfect… You will never see a perfect game. So get the word perfect out of your vocabulary.. I do support GW2. I love the game and it is fun for me.

I don’t state that GW2 is perfect.

Sinifair.1026:

goldenwing.8473:

There are various ways to “support” the game through regular play and forum posting.

These include bringing objective data to postings as much as possible, trying to be open to other perspectives, posting concerns, feedback (both in game and on forum), suggestions, reporting bugs, reporting bots, testing new items, helping other players in game (playing, questions, bugged encounter status), etcetera

That’s just part and parcel of being a “good” game citizen. I’m sure most of the player base fits that description.

I find it amusing that you would say that.
- Many suggestions are being put down merely because people say “This isn’t WoW.”

I saw a post suggesting the Druid as a class, where one guy said that GW2 wasn’t WoW.
- He might as well have said that it wasn’t GW, because Druids are part of the GW lore, but instead of making a valid argument, he chose to say that he had heard the term “Druid” being used in WoW.
- Many people on the forum are like that, and many good suggestions are being frowned upon because they have also been introduced in WoW (it’s like saying that combat shouldn’t be in GW2 because it was in WoW, instead of seeing how the aspect could be improved).

- And if people have such paranoia then GW2 will never reach its full potential.
Those kind of players do, in some sense, not support GW2.

Overall, during the last 13+ years, I’ve had opportunities to be part of many forums, which include internal dev boards, alpha, beta and post-release official game forums and related gaming forums. At release, GW2 had one of the most temperate, moderate, data-driven set of posters on a general forum I have witnessed outside of internal development boards.

Yes, there will always be “many” posters who are not entirely objective in their posts. That is true in every game forum.

I also understand, particularly in light of how the new content back in November was handled, that there are many players who have had a less than inclusive reaction to any suggestion of incorporating content specifically from WoW.

I have also seen players basically posting “I want this specific content from WoW because it was in WoW, without understanding the impact / context of that content within this game. (See the rest of my post including”noise".)

I agree that automatic dismissal can be seen as non-supportive. I can also view that as players trying to preserve a set of values that were marketed before and during GW2 release; values that those same players watch being eroded by what appears to be a current trend of content. There’s a sliding scale difference between paranoia and concern.

Players who demand content from other games, in a self-focused manner, whatever the content origin, without considering whether it might actually improve GW2 can also be seen as not necessarily supportive of GW2.

A lot of supportive players do not read nor post on the forum. Hence the full comment regarding the various ways players support GW2.

You are correct in pointing out that being open to other perspectives is a way to be supportive.

Something I also stated in that opening part of my post which was quoted.

Goldenwing: It was not as much the post you made, it was more that I came to think on all the times I’ve heard players dismiss suggestions because they’ve heard the term used in WoW (I am not sure whether or not you took my comment as offensive, but I assure you that was not the intention. ).
- But yeah, I know that there is a difference in support and concern, and believe me, I am supportive in suggestions that add to the game, so long as they don’t state that they want it taken directly from WoW.

- As an example, I think that the Charr tanks and the Asura Golems could serve as vehicles to be used in battle against Zhaitan, when we’re in Orr. There is a limited number of vehicles available and such, but people are quick to put it down, while I think that since the tanks and golems are already in game, standing and rusting, ANet could implement them in some way, in their own way, so that they add to the gaming experience and make the battlefield more epic.
- Anyhow, this is not up for discussion here, but mayhap I shall add it on the suggestion page later.

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

I still can’t tell whether I think the developers are actually interested in following the philosophy of GW1 and trying to make their games better to prove that it can work – or if they are simply making their games more like generic MMO’s to sell copies and count their money.

If they are indeed doing the first, no matter how much I think they released the game too early or have major flaws in combat, I support them.

If, however, it is the second, then I don’t really give a kitten what happens to GW2.

This is a really really interesting post.

I’m not so sure there are only two options here. Maybe they are neither trying to be like Guild Wars 1 or like WoW.

They don’t need to be making it like GW1, simply that they are actually trying to make a better game, similar to when they made GW1, they were trying to make a better game. I’m not convinced they are.

A lot of fanboys tell me that they are trying to make a game to make everyone happy. That doesn’t equate to making a better game, it just equates to making a game that will get everyone to buy it regardless of whether they will like it for long. IMO, of course.

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

I still can’t tell whether I think the developers are actually interested in following the philosophy of GW1 and trying to make their games better to prove that it can work – or if they are simply making their games more like generic MMO’s to sell copies and count their money.

If they are indeed doing the first, no matter how much I think they released the game too early or have major flaws in combat, I support them.

If, however, it is the second, then I don’t really give a kitten what happens to GW2.

This is a really really interesting post.

I’m not so sure there are only two options here. Maybe they are neither trying to be like Guild Wars 1 or like WoW.

They don’t need to be making it like GW1, simply that they are actually trying to make a better game, similar to when they made GW1, they were trying to make a better game. I’m not convinced they are.

A lot of fanboys tell me that they are trying to make a game to make everyone happy. That doesn’t equate to making a better game, it just equates to making a game that will get everyone to buy it regardless of whether they will like it for long. IMO, of course.

Trying to make a game where different demographics of players have something to do, is not quite the same as trying to keep everyone happy. I guess you think they should make a game that just keeps players that like what you like happy, and I guess that’s fair enough.

I know that not everyone plays like me, so they have to make stuff for other people too. Because it’s a big ambitious game and it needs people to play it. That won’t happen if they don’t support different demographics.

How well they’re doing depends on who you ask. I think that abandoning some of the stuff that people had problems with in Guild Wars 1 (even people who played it later), isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

I already spent some € on gems, so yes, it has my support. And I’m still playing and enjoying it, so I’ll keep supporting it for a long, long, long time.

I support GW2, its not perfect but it is a great game overall..

No MMO is perfect is it? Otherwise we all would be playing that and not GW2…

MMO’s after have mass appeal don’t they? They are probably the most expensive type of game to produce and they after sustain there appeal for years…so they after go for numbers to some extent…

I support GW2. Until I get bored, and then I will support something else.

Sinifair.1026:

Goldenwing: It was not as much the post you made, it was more that I came to think on all the times I’ve heard players dismiss suggestions because they’ve heard the term used in WoW (I am not sure whether or not you took my comment as offensive, but I assure you that was not the intention. ).
- But yeah, I know that there is a difference in support and concern, and believe me, I am supportive in suggestions that add to the game, so long as they don’t state that they want it taken directly from WoW.

- As an example, I think that the Charr tanks and the Asura Golems could serve as vehicles to be used in battle against Zhaitan, when we’re in Orr. There is a limited number of vehicles available and such, but people are quick to put it down, while I think that since the tanks and golems are already in game, standing and rusting, ANet could implement them in some way, in their own way, so that they add to the gaming experience and make the battlefield more epic.
- Anyhow, this is not up for discussion here, but mayhap I shall add it on the suggestion page later.

No offense taken, and I hope none given.

You have a good point.

And a good discussion going.

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

I still can’t tell whether I think the developers are actually interested in following the philosophy of GW1 and trying to make their games better to prove that it can work – or if they are simply making their games more like generic MMO’s to sell copies and count their money.

If they are indeed doing the first, no matter how much I think they released the game too early or have major flaws in combat, I support them.

If, however, it is the second, then I don’t really give a kitten what happens to GW2.

This is a really really interesting post.

I’m not so sure there are only two options here. Maybe they are neither trying to be like Guild Wars 1 or like WoW.

They don’t need to be making it like GW1, simply that they are actually trying to make a better game, similar to when they made GW1, they were trying to make a better game. I’m not convinced they are.

A lot of fanboys tell me that they are trying to make a game to make everyone happy. That doesn’t equate to making a better game, it just equates to making a game that will get everyone to buy it regardless of whether they will like it for long. IMO, of course.

Trying to make a game where different demographics of players have something to do, is not quite the same as trying to keep everyone happy. I guess you think they should make a game that just keeps players that like what you like happy, and I guess that’s fair enough.

I know that not everyone plays like me, so they have to make stuff for other people too. Because it’s a big ambitious game and it needs people to play it. That won’t happen if they don’t support different demographics.

How well they’re doing depends on who you ask. I think that abandoning some of the stuff that people had problems with in Guild Wars 1 (even people who played it later), isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

Can you, for once, not put words in my mouth and tell me that my opinion is wrong?

I don’t give a flying kitten if they make a game that I like. What I do care about is this company used to mean something. They used to try and make a game objectively better – not just try to make a game that is OK just to make a lot of people happy just to sell a lot of copies. If I wanted a game that was made just to sell a bunch of copies I can pick one up anywhere.

They had a manifesto – that no matter how you read it – had grand visions of making a game that would appeal to people who don’t like MMO’s. They had a vision of, IMO, making a game objectively better and not falling into the same traps as the same old MMO.

Regardless of how well they accomplished this, I am not certain that they stuck to their guns and didn’t sell out for the cash.

That is all. Your arrogance is incredible.

You seem to think that making a game for the masses and trying to become rich is OK. So do I, I just don’t give a kitten about a company that tried to do that. What I did once care about, is that ANet wanted to make the perfect game, and in doing so, would happen to attract players. Not just making a game to attract players to make money.

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

I still can’t tell whether I think the developers are actually interested in following the philosophy of GW1 and trying to make their games better to prove that it can work – or if they are simply making their games more like generic MMO’s to sell copies and count their money.

If they are indeed doing the first, no matter how much I think they released the game too early or have major flaws in combat, I support them.

If, however, it is the second, then I don’t really give a kitten what happens to GW2.

This is a really really interesting post.

I’m not so sure there are only two options here. Maybe they are neither trying to be like Guild Wars 1 or like WoW.

They don’t need to be making it like GW1, simply that they are actually trying to make a better game, similar to when they made GW1, they were trying to make a better game. I’m not convinced they are.

A lot of fanboys tell me that they are trying to make a game to make everyone happy. That doesn’t equate to making a better game, it just equates to making a game that will get everyone to buy it regardless of whether they will like it for long. IMO, of course.

Trying to make a game where different demographics of players have something to do, is not quite the same as trying to keep everyone happy. I guess you think they should make a game that just keeps players that like what you like happy, and I guess that’s fair enough.

I know that not everyone plays like me, so they have to make stuff for other people too. Because it’s a big ambitious game and it needs people to play it. That won’t happen if they don’t support different demographics.

How well they’re doing depends on who you ask. I think that abandoning some of the stuff that people had problems with in Guild Wars 1 (even people who played it later), isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

Can you, for once, not put words in my mouth and tell me that my opinion is wrong?

I don’t give a flying kitten if they make a game that I like. What I do care about is this company used to mean something. They used to try and make a game objectively better – not just try to make a game that is OK just to make a lot of people happy just to sell a lot of copies. If I wanted a game that was made just to sell a bunch of copies I can pick one up anywhere.

They had a manifesto – that no matter how you read it – had grand visions of making a game that would appeal to people who don’t like MMO’s. They had a vision of, IMO, making a game objectively better and not falling into the same traps as the same old MMO.

Regardless of how well they accomplished this, I am not certain that they stuck to their guns and didn’t sell out for the cash.

That is all. Your arrogance is incredible.

You seem to think that making a game for the masses and trying to become rich is OK. So do I, I just don’t give a kitten about a company that tried to do that. What I did once care about, is that ANet wanted to make the perfect game, and in doing so, would happen to attract players. Not just making a game to attract players to make money.

Just gonna pop in here and say Anet’s perfect game IS the one that makes them the most money. What individual players want is really irrelevant, they are a company and expecting them to act like a business has feelings for people is pretty silly for any company. A lot of companies try to act like it’s important but most of us know better.

Aeonblade.8709:

Just gonna pop in here and say Anet’s perfect game IS the one that makes them the most money. What individual players want is really irrelevant, they are a company and expecting them to act like a business has feelings for people is pretty silly for any company. A lot of companies try to act like it’s important but most of us know better.

Too cynical. If a group of gamers (like, say, the folks at Chucklefish) got together to form a company for the purpose of making an enjoyable game, the “perfect” game, for other gamers, yeah, I would expect that company to “have feelings for people”.

The problem here is that A-NET touted their manifesto and set expectations otherwise, then began making a string of questionable decisions like the RNG stuff to test the money market. Hey, no one’s perfect. But they did squander respect and integrity (in my eyes, and my eyes alone, and you & they don’t really care what an anonymous person on the ‘net thinks, I’m sure). I’m not quitting over it, so they have an opportunity to redeem themselves or get worse. Right now I hold them in the same regard as any other gaming company, out to make as much bucks as possible without worrying about ethics. Ethics being subjective.

So, yeah, a company can be great, profitable, and “have feelings for people”. It just takes a lot of balls to be uncompromising in that vision. They have compromised. I am genuinely quite interested to see whither they goest. They have multiple opportunities to “show they care” or just ignore stuff and learn internally from their mistakes. Corporate or personal? Do-no-wrong publisher or indie game?

LowestTruth.2635:

Aeonblade.8709:

Just gonna pop in here and say Anet’s perfect game IS the one that makes them the most money. What individual players want is really irrelevant, they are a company and expecting them to act like a business has feelings for people is pretty silly for any company. A lot of companies try to act like it’s important but most of us know better.

Too cynical. If a group of gamers (like, say, the folks at Chucklefish) got together to form a company for the purpose of making an enjoyable game, the “perfect” game, for other gamers, yeah, I would expect that company to “have feelings for people”.

The problem here is that A-NET touted their manifesto and set expectations otherwise, then began making a string of questionable decisions like the RNG stuff to test the money market. Hey, no one’s perfect. But they did squander respect and integrity (in my eyes, and my eyes alone, and you & they don’t really care what an anonymous person on the ‘net thinks, I’m sure). I’m not quitting over it, so they have an opportunity to redeem themselves or get worse. Right now I hold them in the same regard as any other gaming company, out to make as much bucks as possible without worrying about ethics. Ethics being subjective.

So, yeah, a company can be great, profitable, and “have feelings for people”. It just takes a lot of balls to be uncompromising in that vision. They have compromised. I am genuinely quite interested to see whither they goest. They have multiple opportunities to “show they care” or just ignore stuff and learn internally from their mistakes. Corporate or personal? Do-no-wrong publisher or indie game?

Thank you. I’m not naive enough to think that a company doesn’t need or wish to make money, but creating a game for the sake of just making money vs. creating a game for the sake of the game and hoping that it will make money are two different things in my eyes. I think a lot of people will agree that regardless of whether they likes GW1, it set out to do the latter. I’m not so sure the same can be said about GW2, yet.

Making money and caring about your customers is not mutually exclusive. Nor, do I think that what I specifically want in a game is all that matters and that they need to make the game for someone like me, which is what I’ve already heard.

I support GW2 as long as I like to play it.

I would have no big qualms to change to another game (I am already married in real life, no need to marry GW2) but I don’t see that game coming in the near future…