Guild Wars 2

Bigsexy.8302:

Get More Gold!

Remember that you can exchange gems and gold at our currency exchange on the second tab of the Black Lion Trading Company! Currently, you can get 1 gold for about 15 gems and 50 gold for about 670 gems!

How convenient…
Looks like soon there won’t be any other way to obtain gold but through gems only.

Ehm… what are you talking about.
Most of the “farms” that are being “nerfed” are based on exploiting fundamental issues with the game in general.
These are several problems that have to be addresed one at a time, to prevent unbalancing the game (further).

If player get a lot of money in a very short amount of time for something that should only give a little bit, then the idea was good, but the execution failed.
Subsequently adjusting the system to do what it was supposed to do is the right thing.

Complaining about system failures and that they are fixed so they cannot be exploited is just wrong.

Yes, there are instances in which these failures create new and interesting ways to play, however champ trains and the like, mostly in low level zones created a toxic enviroment for new player.

You as high level mass zerg champ train give the impression to new players that this is the way to play the game, while there are so many other ways to obtain what you want.

also you can still hunt champs in other areas of the game. They just reduced it in the low level zones for new players -_-

Oh and your coment about gem to gold… yeah, how about paying a bit of your money for a game you do not pay for aside from the initial purchase price.

How dare them to remind you that there is a way to give them money for their service and even getting something for it in return.

How could they do such things to the poor poor people… who just see their own easy benefit…

It`s a game and no gold farming simulator -_-

Jaken.6801:

Bigsexy.8302:

Get More Gold!

Remember that you can exchange gems and gold at our currency exchange on the second tab of the Black Lion Trading Company! Currently, you can get 1 gold for about 15 gems and 50 gold for about 670 gems!

How convenient…
Looks like soon there won’t be any other way to obtain gold but through gems only.

Ehm… what are you talking about.
Most of the “farms” that are being “nerfed” are based on exploiting fundamental issues with the game in general.
These are several problems that have to be addresed one at a time, to prevent unbalancing the game (further).

If player get a lot of money in a very short amount of time for something that should only give a little bit, then the idea was good, but the execution failed.
Subsequently adjusting the system to do what it was supposed to do is the right thing.

Complaining about system failures and that they are fixed so they cannot be exploited is just wrong.

Yes, there are instances in which these failures create new and interesting ways to play, however champ trains and the like, mostly in low level zones created a toxic enviroment for new player.

You as high level mass zerg champ train give the impression to new players that this is the way to play the game, while there are so many other ways to obtain what you want.

also you can still hunt champs in other areas of the game. They just reduced it in the low level zones for new players -_-

Oh and your coment about gem to gold… yeah, how about paying a bit of your money for a game you do not pay for aside from the initial purchase price.

How dare them to remind you that there is a way to give them money for their service and even getting something for it in return.

How could they do such things to the poor poor people… who just see their own easy benefit…

It`s a game and no gold farming simulator -_-

Oh, please… "exploiting fundamental issues ". So running around the map and killing champs is exploiting, but stacking in dungeons, etc is fine?!
I agree people should not insult each other when someone solo a champ out of the order, but to call it toxic is just an exaggeration. Anet doesn’t care really.

New players are not stupid, they know there’s more than the champ train. Why not let the people “play the way they want”? It’s up to me if I want to farm champs or stack in dungeons.

I don’t mind buying gems with cash from time to time to buy something from the store but I’m don’t find it appropriate and fair if I have to convert it to gold so I can buy some gear, etc.

You are right though, this is not gold farming simulator. Now lets make every non-depositable item obtained through TP account-bound and stop the mindless flipping whether it’s a bot or human. Maybe materials too, but will need 2nd vault for the account-bound mats.

Funny you talk about fixing “exploits”, yet real exploits in game remain – like flying golems, and people hitting you from beneath the wvw map. But of course it doesn’t affect the economy, so why bother fix it?

Why do you think heal-o-tron has to be paid x amount of donations (coins silver-gold+) from players to start an event “boss blitz” to get achievements?

There’s a surplus of money in the economy and they’re really kittening people off by the way they’re handling things, trying to get rid of all of the gold in the economy (which will most likely never happen), nerfing champ bag loot, nerfing any profitable farming spot you can think of; what does that leave us with? dungeons? You can only do 1 path per day to get “rewarded” so they don’t encourage farming a single path in a dungeon, They DON’T want anyone to farm at all, pretty soon karka farming will be nerfed in some form or another, if it already isn’t nerfed, just saying it’s a pretty dam big turn off with all of the nerfs to farming in this game.

I Love this game, don’t get me wrong, I love the beautiful graphics and art, but they really need to make people happier and stop taking away what makes a lot of people play the game, to get loot and feel like they’re getting rewarded for their time.

Aidan Savage.2078:

They “nerfed” the trains in lowbie areas because a zone full of “kitten you n00b” “y u derail train?!?!!??!?!!?!!!!1!!!1!11!!1!” and other assorted verbal diarrhea in a zone where brand new players are going to be is detrimental to the game as a whole.

Yeah, but this happens no matter what map the train is on. Hell, people get flamed on for attempting to solo a champ for fun because “zomgthatchampbelongstothetrain”. I’ve had friends have hate messages in map, whisper and even had one of them get trolled by someone a while back in Frostgorge whereby someone put up an LFG on gw2lfg stating they were leaving the game for emotional reasons and giving all their gold away. QD train nerf won’t stop this.

The original buff to champ loot was an attempt to spread people out to many areas, especially Orr. However it backfired. People follow the path of least resistance, like water. They found it easier to form a train circuit around a few conveniently respawning champs, rather than explore the entire world of Tyria looking for champs.

A good idea I read yesterday was to try adding loot bags (slightly smaller ones) to veterans across the game. Theoretically if vets are more common and more spread out than champs, yet yield worthwhile loot all the same, then there would be no need for megazerg trains. People could hunt solo or in small groups for both vets and champs.

ozmaniandevil.6805:

I’m sorry, but I just love how so many players SPEAK FOR ANET and why they nerf this or that. You have no clue, honestly. These are your opinions only, nothing more.

I feel sorry for those whose only pleasure is seeing others unhappy.

Kythan, I understand your confusion. In every LS content released, it is all made for zerg play and huge groups of players, which to me, with all the nerfs, is counter to some of the things they do otherwise. I say this as the Queen’s Jubilee opens again… that is the very “event” that got me started on zerg play. Until then, I had been happily just playing the game, completely unaware that you could even have more than 4g in your bank account.

You’re right, its entirely our opinion just like the statement by op is entirely their opinion as well and guess what its all right because thats the whole purpose of the forum, to share opinions on what we like, what we dislike and what we believe to be best or not for the game in the hopes to influence a bit the direction of the game where it makes sense for the greater good.

Opinions arent simply generated at random, we dont know for sure what Arenanet think and why they do some stuff but we can reason out possibilities.

Also you’re wrong, it is not all made for zerg play quite the opposite most content by Arenanet is designed to fail if zerged its just that players zerg it anyway cause zerging it is more rewarding than winning it and thats something that can only change if arenanet withhold drops from mobs which they did in the pavilion this year and thats not making a lot of people happy is it.

There is a very fine balance arenanet have to strike when it comes to rewarding players and whatever they do they’re going to make some players unhappy.

No one here gets pleasure (well i hope they do not) for seeing others unhappy but understand there is such thing as the greater good. Everything has consiquences lets consider a bit the champion trains for example.

Some players might be happy doing them and happy with the rewards they give. Other players however doing like farming and just dont do it. Problem is farming is a lot more profitable then anything else you can do in the game. Just conisder someone who farms 24/7 with someone who likes to explore and doing event. one will be doing x gold per hour, the other is lucky if s/he does 50s per hour. Why is that a problem? Gw2 has a player economy, IE players decide at what price stuff sells by how much they’re willing to pay, this goes to a degree even for the gold to gem conversion.

Now the problem is as I am sure you can understand that the farmer with his x gold per hour (lets say 2 gold per hour) can afford to pay 4x the prices the explorer can afford. Sellers dont care about being fair, they care about making the biggest profit possible so they’re going to sell at the farmers price point. what that means is a popular skin sells for say 12g for the farmer its not a big deal its just 6hrs of game time something easily fit in a weekend. For the explorer though? thats 24hrs of game time potentially close to a month’s worth of game time.

Arenanet’s job is to keep things balanced. They dont control prices, players do that so all they can control is player income. They cant know in advanced exactly how much players will earn because well they dont have crystal balls. They can estimate it to a degree (how long it takes to kill a champion, for how long they’re gonna farm, average income per kill etc..) but I am sure you appreciate those projections change with time… train gets invented (didn’t exist prior champion rewards), players farm longer then projected, train size exceeds projected size resulting in quicker kills then estimated etc.. thats when nerfs come in.

It has nothing to do with ruining people’s fun and everything to do with creating a balance where no one group is penalized too much.

Hanzlo.3148:

If they want players to focus on learning the core game experience , they need to give players much better rewards, not few boxes and a green wtf is that kitten.

Increase reward for team effort and you will increase number of players willing to do it.
If you take reward away from events no one is going to play it.

You do realize you’re not able to wear a rare armor until level 35 right? So by the time your that level you should be out of queensdale. I do agree however rewards do need some tweaking.

Bigsexy.8302:

Oh, please… "exploiting fundamental issues ". So running around the map and killing champs is exploiting, but stacking in dungeons, etc is fine?!
I agree people should not insult each other when someone solo a champ out of the order, but to call it toxic is just an exaggeration. Anet doesn’t care really.

New players are not stupid, they know there’s more than the champ train. Why not let the people “play the way they want”? It’s up to me if I want to farm champs or stack in dungeons.

I don’t mind buying gems with cash from time to time to buy something from the store but I’m don’t find it appropriate and fair if I have to convert it to gold so I can buy some gear, etc.

You are right though, this is not gold farming simulator. Now lets make every non-depositable item obtained through TP account-bound and stop the mindless flipping whether it’s a bot or human. Maybe materials too, but will need 2nd vault for the account-bound mats.

Funny you talk about fixing “exploits”, yet real exploits in game remain – like flying golems, and people hitting you from beneath the wvw map. But of course it doesn’t affect the economy, so why bother fix it?

1. No, i am against stacking, but that is another topic.

2. No, farming in general is a way to play, which exploits a system to get the greatest benefit with the “least” amount of effort.
The type of effort does not matter in that case, since the goal is the gold in the end.

The Champion Lootbags were put in to give people an insentive to do harder enemies in game and not ignore them.

These prooved to be so profitable that the champtrain was born.

Something that was designed to reward people for doing a challenging content was reduced to a mindless pinata and i cannot believe that was the idea behind this system.

However i am not against a farm in general. people should do what they like, but not intrude into other peoples enjoyment of the game.
This is something that has happened here.

3. There are several instances in which people reported that they got pulled in the train and thought,t hat this was the “only” way to play.
Yes, some people are so “easy” to manipulate.
Queensdale is a beginner zone and exposing such behaviour to new players so early in the game is counterproductive.
GW2 is a game that is “supposed” to be played by knowing your class and its mechanics. There are a lot of mechanics in this game people have to learn.
A mindless follow the comander and press 1, in which every diversion of the planned route gets scolded by the zerg (some more, some less, it depends) is indeed a toxic enviroment for new players.

As Queensdale is an introduction area, this kind of “content” should be only there in a reduced manner.

4. Which gear do you “need” to buy? As far as i know you can easily get your exo equip done without farming and just playing the game.
Of course if you want some specific skins, then you might have to do other stuff, or be lucky.
Again, you are worked up, because the “shortest” route to your goal has been compromised, so you have to resort to some “slower” routes to get to your goal.

5. You vent your anger here about other not resolved problems in the game.
Yes they are still there. however calling them out and saying that they “do not care”, is a rather narrow perspective.
Maybe these problems are much more complicated then you and many other players can imagine.
With thousands of players playing 24/7 and only a certain amount of people to work on problems, who do you think will be faster finding faults in the system?
Players of course.
not everyone will tell them how it was done, so the devs have to figre it out themselves, trying to reproduce and fix the stuff.

At the same time people demand for new stuff.

Yes, you can complain, but they are only human and they can only do so much.
Yes, it feels slow and it feels like they do not listen (where they should be a bit more open about which problems are on the table and which not), but they can only go, step by step. One problem at a time, since resolving one, can open another one.

Which brings me to my next point.. at first glance it may seem that nerfing income is a sure way to make trading gems for gold profitable but it really doesnt.

people consider a very important factor. Arenanet dont set prices on stuff you buy other players do. The price they set is equivalent to what other players can afford / are willing to pay.

If they nerf income that price will drop because now people will no longer afford that price ergo stuff will sell for less.

Think about it… if say in 1 hr farming I make 5g I may be willing paying 5 – 8g for the same amount of crafting materials I would make for 1 of gathering (I would go up to 8g because I really dont like gathering that much would rather do another 30mins of farming instead) there are others like me so gathers happy sell their logs for say 5s each

But now lets say arenanet nerfs farming hard and I start making 1g per hour instead of 5. Do I really hate gathering that much that I am willing to play 5-7hrs to avoid 1 hour of gathering? I would assume for most it will be no so people stop buying at 5s. Gathers might resist a bit at first hoping farmers would turn around but how long are they going to do that? IT will start with one gather who needs money fast to undercut a bit the lowest offer and soon price will start to fall. With cheaper materials, crafting stuff will be cheaper. etc..

not only that but becuase people now have less gold the conversion rate for gems will start falling as well since less people buy gems and more people are willing to sell them which in turn will deter people from converting real money. if $1 gets you 7g you’re more likely to buy then if $1 gets you 2g even though the spending power remains the same, its just perception paying tricks.

Of course some might get out their credit card and pay that 5s using real money but do you really think that will be sustained enough to keep the prices artificially up? Besides if arenanet’s true goal was to encourage gem to gold conversion dont you think boosting rewards would actually achieve a better result? think about it, lets say farming rewards are boosted from 5g to 50g per hour what happens? now gathers can afford selling at 50s per log because farmers buy it and not only that but because now people can afford more gold the rate of conversion for gems increases $1 might now net you 70g which obviously looks nicer to a potential buyer.

Now Remember not everyone is a farmer thus players who dont farm need to compete with farmers since gathers are not going to charge 2 prices for farmers and everyone else. Only they have no way of affording 50s per log because their ingame income is way lower then that. So what can they do? start farming 24/7 which they dont enjoy doing or use the credit card ?

Which scenario is more likely? I think the 2nd why? well in the first scenario with the nerf both groups of players get closer in terms of income so prices will be in the range both groups of players can afford (groups being farmers and everyone else)

in the 2nd scenario you have a bit rift between farmers and everyone else. That rift has to be bridged by the everyone else group if they want to buy stuff and they can only do that by joining the farmers or using real life money.

so is nerfing really increasing gem → conversion? I personally dont think so

There you go, the pinnacle of the game: Gemstore Wars 2. Enjoy all skin progression (which is the only progression available in the game for PvE’rs) being stuck into the real money cash shop.

Maybe this has already been stated but I’m trying to put it concisely:

Anet cannot make content as fast as people will finish it. Ergo, it might be necessary to put in content that takes longer to finish as well as gameplay that is consistently rewarding so that the game remains alive between breaks and is more exciting for those not interested in LS. There are certainly achievements that take a long time to finish but there doesn’t seem to be much of a middle ground IMO.

A good place to start might be to add more unique loot obtainable in the game and increase/diversify loot dropped from regular mobs. Why should I bother killing…. well, anything… if I won’t be rewarded for it? The combat is fun but it isn’t fun enough to merit pewpewing what I can skip over to get to a more rewarding target(again, imo). Wouldn’t it be nice if the karka in SSC had a small chance of dropping a unique SSC styled armor skin and in general dropped other less rare but interesting loot? Or why not buff the drop rate of some of the harder to find mats in the game like charged orbs so that people play the game more and not the tp? Just some thoughts, not really married to any of them (except unique skins, I want more of those in game).

Personally I don’t care that the Queensdale train is gone. I haven’t checked the FGS train in a long time, but I ran them sometimes for monthlies and I appreciate that that is how people spent their playtime.

So I would venture to say they are not wanting trains. After playing through the boss blitz in the Crown Pavillion, this became quite apparent after I realized they nerfed drops from mobs. After the dismal rewards from the successful completion of that event, I find very little at this moment to continue with the Crown Pavilion.

The only reason I can think for these changes is due to the complaints made by other players. I remember last year tons of complaints made by the players in gauntlet. QD train got lots of complaints too. Maybe anet is trying to fix the squeaky wheel?

I think the common denominater here for most players is fun (duh), but we find that fun through rewards, most often loot. I watched the Boss blitz fall apart. I was trying to break us up in teams, but most wanted that zerg mentality. We all want the loot, but I don’t know if we can get coordinated enough to not zerg. It’s sad and frustrating to spend all this time and get mostly greens and bloodstone dust.

Am I in the minority here? Or do you mostly find your fun through loot rewards too and have been finding them sorely lacking?

Kythan Myr.4719:

So I would venture to say they are not wanting trains. After playing through the boss blitz in the Crown Pavillion, this became quite apparent after I realized they nerfed drops from mobs. After the dismal rewards from the successful completion of that event, I find very little at this moment to continue with the Crown Pavilion.

The only reason I can think for these changes is due to the complaints made by other players. I remember last year tons of complaints made by the players in gauntlet. QD train got lots of complaints too. Maybe anet is trying to fix the squeaky wheel?

I think the common denominater here for most players is fun (duh), but we find that fun through rewards, most often loot. I watched the Boss blitz fall apart. I was trying to break us up in teams, but most wanted that zerg mentality. We all want the loot, but I don’t know if we can get coordinated enough to not zerg. It’s sad and frustrating to spend all this time and get mostly greens and bloodstone dust.

Am I in the minority here? Or do you mostly find your fun through loot rewards too and have been finding them sorely lacking?

You’re sorta right there.

See, what they don’t want is what happened before, which was run to boss A-B-C-D-E-F and and spam one while area collecting loots along the way. Wheeeeeee!

Now they made it more rewarding if smaller teams strike each boss at around the same time. This way, no one boss can get too many if any buffs from the other bosses and if they go down in fairly fast succession then you get BETTER prizes from the final chest. So yes, they want to limit farming while also increasing enjoyment by giving content that might be a bit more challenging since what you get for challenging yourself more is better rewards, which btw is what MANY people have been asking for.

I’m sorry they are not trying to just give away 1236434 mats and rares for every other enemy someone blindly tags with an AOE auto attack. Actually no, I’m not sorry about that at all. i applaud them for that.

You are not in the minority or the pavilion would be forever full. The problem is that ANet has based it’s loot (gold in this example) upon a short timer, so anyone that wants the loot MUST complete the event(s) in the proper way if they want to be rewarded for the event. If it came together like that then the loot would be fine…

However, this leads again into thinking the majority of players are psychic knowing what and where to go to complete the event is such a short time span (again for the best loot). In all likelihood though you will get what has happened, players that are there only for the loot will quickly balk at the time taken to organize and instead do the “farm of the month” for the instant gratification it offers.

Again I will say that If ANet wants players to follow certain rules for these events they NEED to let the players know just where the carrot is by way of rules or mechanics designed to funnel them where needed. Otherwise those that are there just for the shinies will go elsewhere leaving only a very few to do the event. I don’t know about others either but I’m sorry to say when I enter the event and find it barren I don’t think “great, I’ll get 40 friends to organize and help” I instead think “maybe I can find a zerg in EotM or Orr”.

I agree that from a design perspective they have been horrible about “teaching” the mechanics for the event, and rather seem to let the event do the teaching via trial and error. This is something that goes back to most of the other LS content that they put forward. I remember being highly frustrated with some of it when it first came out since there was no way to know what to do at first. That being said, it didn’t take more more than 2 runs through the Pav before figuring out both the “best” way to train it if need be, but also that better rewards are gotten for breaking up the zerg and doing the divide and conquer thing. now i just have to get the other commanders to help follow suit with that tactic and sell it to those that want better loots to actually follow the commanders trying to get them that loot.

They want to control the economy.

Nerfing farms even though Queensdale was pretty bad because the tables were already nerfed to kitten is one method of doing so.

It’s also going to make people more inclined to purchase gems → gold.

There is barely anything left to make some gold in this game but no one seems to really say anything about it.

Kythan Myr.4719:

So I would venture to say they are not wanting trains. After playing through the boss blitz in the Crown Pavillion, this became quite apparent after I realized they nerfed drops from mobs. After the dismal rewards from the successful completion of that event, I find very little at this moment to continue with the Crown Pavilion.

The only reason I can think for these changes is due to the complaints made by other players. I remember last year tons of complaints made by the players in gauntlet. QD train got lots of complaints too. Maybe anet is trying to fix the squeaky wheel?

I think the common denominater here for most players is fun (duh), but we find that fun through rewards, most often loot. I watched the Boss blitz fall apart. I was trying to break us up in teams, but most wanted that zerg mentality. We all want the loot, but I don’t know if we can get coordinated enough to not zerg. It’s sad and frustrating to spend all this time and get mostly greens and bloodstone dust.

Am I in the minority here? Or do you mostly find your fun through loot rewards too and have been finding them sorely lacking?

I DO find loot rewards to be sorely lacking. Not necessarily just in quantity, but in diversity. I was really hoping that at this point in the game there would be more armor skins…. that can be acquired in game. Very little has been added in comparison to the amount added to the gem store for the duration that this game has been alive. And before anyone says “that’s how they make money!” hush you. I have been more than happy to buy things off the gem store when I see something worth buying (I have several armor skins, toys, pets, etc). I would be more likely to buy off the gem store if I could get more rewards by… playing the game. But I feel that when more armor is added to the store and not the game I get more the feeling of “hey look what I spent $10 on!” and less like “hey look what I achieved!”. I have the same issue with legendaries… I have one and it does not feel epic. It feels like I ran a lot of dungeons over and over and then bought stuff off the tp.

Adding the unique weapons to the loot bags was a good step, imo. I just would like to see more of that… in the rest of the game.

i think part of the problem here is that people (myself included) remembered turning over 100+ gold from the Pavilion last year, and figured it was going to be the same thing, and instead they aren’t getting anything near as much for as little effort as it took to do last year. I get its a bit annoying, but at the end of the day, when I get that final reward chest and it comes out with some decent loot from doing the champs in a more “challenging way” then I feel a bit “more” rewarded.

What this all boils down to, whichever side of the fence you are on, is if you kitten off your customers enough times they will leave.

I didn’t run the QD train, I prefer to wvw, everyone has different preferences. If they took away what I liked doing, i would leave.

They can go on about ‘our game philosophy’, as much as they like, but if their customers aren’t enjoying what they are doing, they will leave.

The pavilion is another one – I prefer wvw as I have already said, but I did enjoy this ‘farm’ last year – now, the place is almost dead on the second day of the patch. The only thing keeping me here is wvw, and I am not sure how long my interest will be held by that alone.

What a shame, this looked like it was going to be a brilliant game at release.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

i think part of the problem here is that people (myself included) remembered turning over 100+ gold from the Pavilion last year, and figured it was going to be the same thing, and instead they aren’t getting anything near as much for as little effort as it took to do last year. I get its a bit annoying, but at the end of the day, when I get that final reward chest and it comes out with some decent loot from doing the champs in a more “challenging way” then I feel a bit “more” rewarded.

Define “decent loot”. At this point, I don’t ever foresee getting anything I’d remotely call decent. It’s not just the Pavilion. It’s everything. How many complaints have we heard about the dismal drops/rates from even co-ordinated events like Teq and 3 headed wurm? WvW (which I spend quite a lot of time in) has horrendous reward for the amount of “effort” put in, amount of deaths, running, etc.

Herein is where they make the cash. If I want new BL weapon skins, what do I need to do? Use my credit card to buy BL keys, or use it to buy gems to convert to gold, because there is pretty much no other way to make reasonable (read USEFUL) amounts of in-game gold.

When you have every character at level 80 and don’t have the time or the desire to run “x” dungeons per day, what is left that is fun and rewarding enough that you can get some of the things you want? Not freaking much man.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

i think part of the problem here is that people (myself included) remembered turning over 100+ gold from the Pavilion last year, and figured it was going to be the same thing, and instead they aren’t getting anything near as much for as little effort as it took to do last year. I get its a bit annoying, but at the end of the day, when I get that final reward chest and it comes out with some decent loot from doing the champs in a more “challenging way” then I feel a bit “more” rewarded.

i hear even the best rewards dont really compare to what you get on a frostgorge train. but that was yesterday. How long does it take to complete when done properly, and how much rewards do you get?

I’m confused as to why Champs in other zones can’t be farmed if that is what some players WANT to do? I know for a fact that while clearing certain zones, Champs pop up all the time….there has to be pattern that can be figured out and rotated.

I think this recent change was much less about Anet NOT wanting anyone to farm Champs as it was removing that “experience” from starter zones. Nobody needs to learn to play GW2 via Zerg and frankly, some of the encounters I have witnessed with obviously unknowing new players were simply applauding. It would be much less of a problem if some players had even a bit of manners or consideration for others, but it doesn’t take long for the refuse to float to the top of the bowl and be smelt.

Unfortunately, there’s a disconnect (as it has been since release) between what Anet says, and what actions they take.

This is simply just them going through the motions of let’s patch it now with something really simple, and come back to it when we have time to think of something more creative to solve our problem.

Standard “fix the symptoms not the disease” mentality. They eventually get to the disease but it takes them a kitten ed long time.
I think it’s just a little dangerous doing this all the time – I can see people getting frustrated and leaving. Even with the choice to come back, if the sentiment remains that whenever there’s a problem, ‘expect it to get more frustrating before it gets better’ then it’s more likely to keep them away from the game.

Off topic: The “We Don’t Want You To Grind” Statements:
Easily trumped by the cosmetic end-game. Legendaries was a grind requirement. Skins from dungeons are also a grind requirement. And with the constant change in how easy/hard it was to acquire the crafting mats or tokens, it made the whole “It isn’t a grind” argument kind of pointless. And well….there’s DR too. And Once Per Day Per Account rules….and everything else.

Well back in the way champ drop nothing so ppl asked for them to drop something better then we got the champ bags. Ppl trained them for loot and gold but some ppl felt it was too much gold and loot so they asked for the drop to be nerfed so the money from the bags where dropped. Ppl still complain about the trans so they dropped the loot from the bags.

Over all its just an example that these forums have no idea what they want and when they get what they are asking for they complain its like they are trying to make the game worst to play for the only reason to complain about it.

These forums i have got to say are the funnest and most shameful group of ppl on the web atm. Blindly complaining about things with no selflessness.

The economy works like it does because of the gems/gold conversion. They rabidly protect the economy and nerf truly profitable reward activities or limit the rewards to once per day to protect this. They don’t want players making legendaries with in-game money that they earned playing the game. They’re trying to create an environment in which players buy gems, convert them to gold, then do whatever players usually do in a game like craft gear and buy weapons and armor.

Celtic Lady.3729:

The economy works like it does because of the gems/gold conversion. They rabidly protect the economy and nerf truly profitable reward activities or limit the rewards to once per day to protect this. They don’t want players making legendaries with in-game money that they earned playing the game. They’re trying to create an environment in which players buy gems, convert them to gold, then do whatever players usually do in a game like craft gear and buy weapons and armor.

Pretty much. It’s really kittenty and they know that people will convert gems to gold and boost their sales.

About time I say! A considerable percentage of the player base was held up in these worthless trains, most of them only rewarded us karma as a farmable resource given the profits vs time spent in these trains were always horrible when compared to dungeons.
So people that spent their days running them actually hoping to turn a profit were misguided in the first place.
Getting rid of the starting area trains means the player base will spread out more and other bits of content will be shown more love.
If you want karma or just by God knows what reason enjoy running trains join EoTM which has been superior to any other train in the game for a while now.
Besides if you want to farm champ boxes, SE p1 is still the place to do it at. 5 minutes to complete with a subpar group which yields 5 champ boxes, so a box/minute and 60 boxes/hour.

See, that’s an assumption you make. Nothing says that people that ran the train will now spread out to other areas. They might simply leave the game.

Celtic Lady.3729:

See, that’s an assumption you make. Nothing says that people that ran the train will now spread out to other areas. They might simply leave the game.

I’d already moved on from Champ Train to World Boss train. And if I want to do Champs again, I’ll research the Fields of Ruin ones, or just run the FGS one.

Celtic Lady.3729:

See, that’s an assumption you make. Nothing says that people that ran the train will now spread out to other areas. They might simply leave the game.

I fail to see how repeating the same task over and over with very little results or profit to show for it constitutes a major part of this massive game to make people quit it entirely when it gets taken away.
Besides there are trains that are just as ‘entertaining’ and ‘profitable’ as Queensdale’s or any other starting areas’ was.
Though if you’re compelled to stop playing entirely because you could not find something rather than a starting area train to spend your online time on, nobody is stopping you.

I doubt there will be a big run on FGS since they nerfed that one down to only 3 champs.

Champ rewards were added not to be farmed, but to be an additional incentive to reward players for taking on the challenge of a champion enemy.

The QD train was a low level circuit that granted level scaled rewards for minimum effort. Add in toxic players with horrible attitudes, and you scare away new players—which is something you don’t want to do if you want to have a healthy playerbase.

The trains still exist in some ways, and I’m disappointed it hasn’t disappeared completely.

Celtic Lady.3729:

I doubt there will be a big run on FGS since they nerfed that one down to only 3 champs.

from when i played you can basically chain champs similarly fast, you just do 3 champs in rotation, and add the other two as they come, didnt really see much more waiting around than before. I guess the biggest factor was the champs scale to enemies thing, but that added karma to champion hunting, so ehhh. the real deal is EOTM is just way better than other things now.
So it will probably get nerfed (not saying that it should get nerfed)

Neural.1824:

Mada.5319:

It seems evident that you do not even do Teq or Wurm. Teq/Wurm and Karka get completed within 15 minutes by a coordinated group and you’ll be swimming in rares and loot chests if you made the effort to get organized.

Funny thing that. I did Karka queen and Teq just tonight. got a grand total of 4 yellows. Your “swimming” statement is laughably exagerated.

In addition to this, you also have to factor in the hour wait for teq (and then another hour for wurm if you go and do that). It was a much better return on time to go farm the champ train. The only reason to do teq/wurm is the unique skins (or ascended items I guess), but the drop rate for those are sooooo low, you might as well not even try to get them. I think out of the 50-100 Teq runs that I’ve done since joining TTS, I think I saw maybe one person get a sunless weapon. Normal ascended stuff drops a bit more frequently, but its still infrequent.

Personally, I always liked the wvw champ trains better than anything in pve. So much better loot, so much more of it, and so far it hasn’t really been nerfed.

phys.7689:

Celtic Lady.3729:

I doubt there will be a big run on FGS since they nerfed that one down to only 3 champs.

from when i played you can basically chain champs similarly fast, you just do 3 champs in rotation, and add the other two as they come, didnt really see much more waiting around than before. I guess the biggest factor was the champs scale to enemies thing, but that added karma to champion hunting, so ehhh. the real deal is EOTM is just way better than other things now.
So it will probably get nerfed (not saying that it should get nerfed)

EoTM should not be nerfed, let us not forget it was designed to be a PvP environment. But the player base like in all things managed to turn it into a karma train, asking ArenaNet to fix problems created by the player base itself is extremely foolish in my opinion.

Celtic Lady.3729:

See, that’s an assumption you make. Nothing says that people that ran the train will now spread out to other areas. They might simply leave the game.

to be perfectly honest, it wasnt really an appopriate place for some sort of all game long farm place. And also, with monster difficulty changes, it was pretty much even easier than a regular train.

It needed to be changed really,

Xenon.4537:

The original buff to champ loot was an attempt to spread people out to many areas, especially Orr. However it backfired. People follow the path of least resistance, like water. They found it easier to form a train circuit around a few conveniently respawning champs, rather than explore the entire world of Tyria looking for champs.

A good idea I read yesterday was to try adding loot bags (slightly smaller ones) to veterans across the game. Theoretically if vets are more common and more spread out than champs, yet yield worthwhile loot all the same, then there would be no need for megazerg trains. People could hunt solo or in small grctoups for both vets and champs.

Unfortunately, people will still zerg them.

They want people to go out and explore the world. They want champs to be challenging and rewarding to fight. But they don’t want people to mindlessly farm them, because that breaks the economy.

Adding more gold/loot to the economy doesn’t actually do anything but depress the value of low-demand loot (Like gear unfavored by the meta, and niche-use upgrade components), and increase inflation of high-demand gear.

Veckna.9621:

phys.7689:

Celtic Lady.3729:

I doubt there will be a big run on FGS since they nerfed that one down to only 3 champs.

from when i played you can basically chain champs similarly fast, you just do 3 champs in rotation, and add the other two as they come, didnt really see much more waiting around than before. I guess the biggest factor was the champs scale to enemies thing, but that added karma to champion hunting, so ehhh. the real deal is EOTM is just way better than other things now.
So it will probably get nerfed (not saying that it should get nerfed)

EoTM should not be nerfed, let us not forget it was designed to be a PvP environment. But the player base like in all things managed to turn it into a karma train, asking ArenaNet to fix problems created by the player base itself is extremely foolish in my opinion.

anets job is to solve problems created by the player base. Also i think you are underestimating how much what the playerbase does is dictated by game design. if you design a game that can be easily beaten in a way that doesnt make use of the mechanics you designed, then that is really your fault, not the playerbase.

the main reason i dont know if it should be nerfed is because people need to make money somehow, the whole endgame is based on money. As well, in general most nerfs end up effecting a lot of playstyles, not just the one they are trying to deal with. Also, i really cant think of any other reason to be in EOTM, the pvp is better in WvW and sPVP.

There are few ways to show ArenaNet that we are not happy what they have done.

1. We are not spending any money to this game anymore.
2. We are vote with our legs and leave this game
3. We will start to inform all the potetial gamers that GW2 is not worth game to play.

When Arenanet will see the result, it is too late for them. It is harder get back those players who have left than those players who never played. But when gaming house is getting bad reputation it will not get any other customers tho. It is hard to fix the harm what one unhappy customer can do, than 1000 satisfied customers can afford. When there is 1000 unhappy customers, it is usually catastrophy to any company.

So what Arenanet can do?
1. They can apologize the bad situation what they have done.
2. They can reward all it’s customers to make all events in everywhere more profitable (loot, droppings, materials, what ever) for everybody, for those who are unhappy and for those who are happy.
3. Make all events give more xp and karma.
4. Change all Champions in every area to Veterans (including, dungeons/instances, wvw and pve)
5. World Bosses don’t reward any chest anymore, they are giving only normal loot as all events and foes

That third thing i already started doing for a while now, got fed up with sh31t3 they are serving on the patch basis.

Neural.1824:

chronometria.3708:

Anet made decent loot appear so rarely that players became akin to starving people, desperately gorging on champion boxes in the faint hope that something appeared in them. The champ train was a symptom of player “reward starvation” and a large amount of learned helplessness. Why do complex events like tequatl and 3 headed wurm when those give next to nothing in return. Far better to simply run round in a boring circle while watching tv and to collect a hundred champ boxes in the hope of something by raw force of numbers.

GW2 is built around giving nothing and taking all our time and the culmination of this is events like the new queens gauntlet, which are the perfection of this punishing philosophy.

We learned that the mystic forge hates us. We learned that RNG hates us, but now we don’t event get drops in our events for the rng to happen in.

The game hates us – that’s how I feel at the moment and I don’t understand how it can have come to this. I want to play, but its as if I am being told to go play something else – why is this?

Very well said, and dead on accurate.

Exactly my sentiment. I don’t understand how they could have missed this essential aspect of gameplay. I’m sorry but there’s a carrot on a stick meme for a reason, it’s because that’s what gets people to play. When you set the numbers so low and you make your economy based on what people can physically pump into the game with their wallets, this is going to be the result 100% of the time. D3 just changed their whole setup because of exactly what we’re experiencing here today in this title.

I agree that the game isn’t probably experiencing a bug with the boss event, having heard the devs silence today I think it’s intentional and that’s really sad.

Galen Grey.4709:

Now Remember not everyone is a farmer thus players who dont farm need to compete with farmers since gathers are not going to charge 2 prices for farmers and everyone else. Only they have no way of affording 50s per log because their ingame income is way lower then that. So what can they do? start farming 24/7 which they dont enjoy doing or use the credit card ?

Which scenario is more likely?

There is another scenario.
The people that don’t farm hardcore, that aren’t competing for the fastest gold count increase, that aren’t using their credit card to make up any perceived difference.
I’m one of those people. Granted, it takes me FAR longer than a farmer to get this “shiny” and that “precious item” – but I find I rather enjoy my style of gameplay.
Yes, I’m the tortoise.

Sinope.5630:

There are few ways to show ArenaNet that we are not happy what they have done.

1. We are not spending any money to this game anymore.
2. We are vote with our legs and leave this game
3. We will start to inform all the potetial gamers that GW2 is not worth game to play.

When Arenanet will see the result, it is too late for them. It is harder get back those players who have left than those players who never played. But when gaming house is getting bad reputation it will not get any other customers tho. It is hard to fix the harm what one unhappy customer can do, than 1000 satisfied customers can afford. When there is 1000 unhappy customers, it is usually catastrophy to any company.

So what Arenanet can do?
1. They can apologize the bad situation what they have done.
2. They can reward all it’s customers to make all events in everywhere more profitable (loot, droppings, materials, what ever) for everybody, for those who are unhappy and for those who are happy.
3. Make all events give more xp and karma.
4. Change all Champions in every area to Veterans (including, dungeons/instances, wvw and pve)
5. World Bosses don’t reward any chest anymore, they are giving only normal loot as all events and foes

If this isn’t a troll post……never mind…..(shakes head and wanders away from thread).

Queen’s Pavilion and Dominion of the Winds
They have served us the same “food” from last year, and this time is not even "heated’???
Blah

chronometria.3708:

Anet made decent loot appear so rarely that players became akin to starving people, desperately gorging on champion boxes in the faint hope that something appeared in them. The champ train was a symptom of player “reward starvation” and a large amount of learned helplessness. Why do complex events like tequatl and 3 headed wurm when those give next to nothing in return. Far better to simply run round in a boring circle while watching tv and to collect a hundred champ boxes in the hope of something by raw force of numbers.

GW2 is built around giving nothing and taking all our time and the culmination of this is events like the new queens gauntlet, which are the perfection of this punishing philosophy.

We learned that the mystic forge hates us. We learned that RNG hates us, but now we don’t event get drops in our events for the rng to happen in.

The game hates us – that’s how I feel at the moment and I don’t understand how it can have come to this. I want to play, but its as if I am being told to go play something else – why is this?

I agree with you and gave you a +1 as well.

People started farming HARD when ANet came out with the queen’s jubilee, an event that the game developers … developed, which for many inflated the prices of anything event remotely asthetically pleasing into the stratosphere. How do you then go from there back to running 15-20 min event chains for 2.5 silver?

The overall rewards in the game are worse than pathetic. There are a lot of high level players (meaning they have all toons at 80 and are not just playing for specific reasons other than leveling) getting low, low level rewards. That can only go on for so long.

Brother Grimm.5176:

Sinope.5630:

There are few ways to show ArenaNet that we are not happy what they have done.

1. We are not spending any money to this game anymore.
2. We are vote with our legs and leave this game
3. We will start to inform all the potetial gamers that GW2 is not worth game to play.

When Arenanet will see the result, it is too late for them. It is harder get back those players who have left than those players who never played. But when gaming house is getting bad reputation it will not get any other customers tho. It is hard to fix the harm what one unhappy customer can do, than 1000 satisfied customers can afford. When there is 1000 unhappy customers, it is usually catastrophy to any company.

So what Arenanet can do?
1. They can apologize the bad situation what they have done.
2. They can reward all it’s customers to make all events in everywhere more profitable (loot, droppings, materials, what ever) for everybody, for those who are unhappy and for those who are happy.
3. Make all events give more xp and karma.
4. Change all Champions in every area to Veterans (including, dungeons/instances, wvw and pve)
5. World Bosses don’t reward any chest anymore, they are giving only normal loot as all events and foes

If this isn’t a troll post……never mind…..(shakes head and wanders away from thread).

No, this is not troll post. I am dead serious. It is better make everybody little unhappy than just make some of us furious.

If ArenaNet want to be equal to everybody, read one time restoration after hacking, it should be equal in this kind of situations too. So if they take someone’s happy activity from the game, they should take it from everybody too not only some sertain player types.

infantrydiv.1620:

Arenanet doesn’t like to have rewarding content because it makes people less likely to buy stuff from the gem store.

+1, as I said in another thread; GW2 has become “Gem Store Wars 1”.

Veckna.9621:

EoTM should not be nerfed, let us not forget it was designed to be a PvP environment. But the player base like in all things managed to turn it into a karma train, asking ArenaNet to fix problems created by the player base itself is extremely foolish in my opinion.

You say there is a problem but because it was created by the player base they shouldn’t fix it? Since said “player base” won’t fix it themselves, ArenaNet should just let problems continue in your book?

Now THAT strikes me as “extremely foolish”.

Having champ trains in the starter areas was just bad – a turn-off and distraction to new players. Good riddance.

Note that nothing was done to Frostgorge or other areas.