Guild Wars 2

Azreell.1568:

If you liked or disliked the train is somewhat irrelevant.

The real point is Anet removing player created content. Perhaps if we had any type of viable content patches after a year and a half this would not be such a big deal.

But, since this game is almost identical today as it was at launch content wise – yes many people are upset about you limiting activities many enjoy.

There is such little content to do in this game it’s mind blowing – especially for its age.

Before you lose your remaining players I think you should worry more about creating fresh new content instead reducing further the amount of things players can do.

100% agree! As I’ve posted before, what am I SUPPOSED to do? I’ve done all the rest and this was the easiest way to mindlessly log in for a few hours and just get loot. The farming areas are nerfed with DR, and I’m sick of running through the same maps over and over. How many capped toons do I have to have before playing this game, and more importantly, getting loot and increasing my gear and wealth, starts to feel like work. Ok, ok, I can’t do Champ Train (and if you think they’re done with Champ Train nerfs, anyone want to make me a bet?) Guess I’ll just do what I’ve been doing for the last 1.5 years.

Naevius.3185:

Having champ trains in the starter areas was just bad – a turn-off and distraction to new players. Good riddance.

Note that nothing was done to Frostgorge or other areas.

Because Frostgorge was already nerfed with Trio earlier.

In answer to the OP.

Yes. Correct. They didn’t want us farming Champions in low level areas. They have now fixed it.

Who knows. Maybe next will be World Bosses in low level areas.

I think the reason these threads aren’t answered promptly (or at all some times) is that when ArenaNet puts out a new reward many people feel the requirements are harsh and start the “Grind Wars 2” argument. Parallel to those are threads where players freak out over losing farming opportunities. This happens naturally because what Guild Wars 2 does is evolve. If it stayed constant, we may have permanent fixes, but this is the beauty and the curse of developing an MMO; it’s a constant battle for balance.
Perhaps reworking requirements for certain rewards to accommodate these champ changes might bring us closer to a comfy spot between having to kill one thing a million times to get the reward we want (ie. champs), and killing a million things a million times (ie. farming mats).

mjhungness.8059:

Naevius.3185:

Having champ trains in the starter areas was just bad – a turn-off and distraction to new players. Good riddance.

Note that nothing was done to Frostgorge or other areas.

Because Frostgorge was already nerfed with Trio earlier.

IMO, the FGS train was made better(albeit that it takes a little longer to complete) and fish, kodan and norn combined as an event was a GOOD THING, I now get 4 BOXES instead of just 3 for doing them, VERY EASY to get to them and get them done by remembering the time it was finished and knowing it to be a 30min respawn from time of completion.

The problem is that they didn’t gave them flags so they would only give guaranteed rewards once a day.

They eventually fixed that with dungeons and world bosses, but left champions unchecked, which resulted in people getting too used to zerg.

It’s like what happened with Shadow Form in GW1. The thing was around for so long that they could not change it too much without losing too many players.

Then, instead finally giving them a once-a-day flag, they removed a number of champions and reduced the rewards for each.

If you are killing 4-5 things, getting one less thing and less rewards form the remaining 3-4 things each time but still getting stuff each time won’t make you go kill other things. It will make you kill those 3-4 things even more to compensate.

We need things like targeted bounties and daily rewards per content and shared caps on rewards from same difficulty content (like the caps per level range in fractals), to keep people spread and rewarded for anything they do.

Lanhelin.3480:

There are so many champs in the other areas, that most of the time simply were ignored.

What if they increased Champion loot AND put in place a one bag per day, per champion cap? Would that be incentive enough for the player base to explore ALL the maps and not just find another hamster wheel map to sit in for hours on end? Or would people just find a way to turn it into another massive “train”?

I think it has potential. I mean there are how many possible champions across all the maps? If people wanted to farm for those increased rewards, they’d be booking it for a long time I think.

Posting the above from another thread because I think its a good idea but will probably go unnoticed in said thread, as its mostly filled with people raging or trolling. Mostly.

Champ boxes were never meant to be farmed. You don’t exactly make money doing the FGS train and well you never really made any real money to talk about doing the queensdale train, anyway unless you sat on a champ train for 6 hours a day for a month it was just more profitable to go and run the easiest dungeon paths once and go do something else.

So them nerfing the amount of gold the boxes gave (they’ve done it once (maybe twice) before actually before recently), the queensdale train being imploded to death by making all the events veterans basically has effectively derailed that zone and made it less toxic towards newer players. People mindlessly following another 50 people killing the same 7 enemies repeatedly is just toxic for a game considering the money you gained from it before all the nerfs to it.

Also queensdale has the name dramaqueensdale in my guild because it was basically “omg who killed oak?” or “WTF YOU SCRUB STOP KILLING CHAMPS OUT OF ORDER!” You saw these at least a few times a day…

Galen Grey.4709:

Which brings me to my next point.. at first glance it may seem that nerfing income is a sure way to make trading gems for gold profitable but it really doesnt.

people consider a very important factor. Arenanet dont set prices on stuff you buy other players do. The price they set is equivalent to what other players can afford / are willing to pay.

If they nerf income that price will drop because now people will no longer afford that price ergo stuff will sell for less.

Think about it… if say in 1 hr farming I make 5g I may be willing paying 5 – 8g for the same amount of crafting materials I would make for 1 of gathering (I would go up to 8g because I really dont like gathering that much would rather do another 30mins of farming instead) there are others like me so gathers happy sell their logs for say 5s each

But now lets say arenanet nerfs farming hard and I start making 1g per hour instead of 5. Do I really hate gathering that much that I am willing to play 5-7hrs to avoid 1 hour of gathering? I would assume for most it will be no so people stop buying at 5s. Gathers might resist a bit at first hoping farmers would turn around but how long are they going to do that? IT will start with one gather who needs money fast to undercut a bit the lowest offer and soon price will start to fall. With cheaper materials, crafting stuff will be cheaper. etc..

not only that but becuase people now have less gold the conversion rate for gems will start falling as well since less people buy gems and more people are willing to sell them which in turn will deter people from converting real money. if $1 gets you 7g you’re more likely to buy then if $1 gets you 2g even though the spending power remains the same, its just perception paying tricks.

Of course some might get out their credit card and pay that 5s using real money but do you really think that will be sustained enough to keep the prices artificially up? Besides if arenanet’s true goal was to encourage gem to gold conversion dont you think boosting rewards would actually achieve a better result? think about it, lets say farming rewards are boosted from 5g to 50g per hour what happens? now gathers can afford selling at 50s per log because farmers buy it and not only that but because now people can afford more gold the rate of conversion for gems increases $1 might now net you 70g which obviously looks nicer to a potential buyer.

Now Remember not everyone is a farmer thus players who dont farm need to compete with farmers since gathers are not going to charge 2 prices for farmers and everyone else. Only they have no way of affording 50s per log because their ingame income is way lower then that. So what can they do? start farming 24/7 which they dont enjoy doing or use the credit card ?

Which scenario is more likely? I think the 2nd why? well in the first scenario with the nerf both groups of players get closer in terms of income so prices will be in the range both groups of players can afford (groups being farmers and everyone else)

in the 2nd scenario you have a bit rift between farmers and everyone else. That rift has to be bridged by the everyone else group if they want to buy stuff and they can only do that by joining the farmers or using real life money.

so is nerfing really increasing gem -> conversion? I personally dont think so

This is all wrong where do you come up with this stuff LMFAO. If you increased drops there would be no need for ever buying gold as you would just go and loot it. By making the things rarer drops it means you MUST go through the TP to get what you want. By them letting the TP to be controlled by a small portion of the population, those few can afford the high prices and keep them high so they can make money. Which makes it harder for your average player, who doesn’t game the TP, for them to buy what they want. With out any way to grind gold in the game the quickest and easiest way to get that gold is to buy it and they are even advertising that now.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/phoenix-weapons-new-faces-and-more-in-the-gem-store/

“Get More Gold!

Remember that you can exchange gems and gold at our currency exchange on the second tab of the Black Lion Trading Company! Currently, you can get 1 gold for about 15 gems and 50 gold for about 670 gems! "

The agenda is obvious, how anyone can say that is not what they are doing is laughable.

I will say that nerfing QD train is meh. I saw nothing wrong with the train but from what I hear there is other ones now so doesn’t really matter. It is kind of messed up for new characters though since they nerfed the trait system and made it an absurd grind and that would at least help you get though it.

Celtic Lady.3729:

See, that’s an assumption you make. Nothing says that people that ran the train will now spread out to other areas. They might simply leave the game.

Boy if the QD champ train was the last thread people hung on to and had no other reason to play GW2, I feel bad for them. Not because their train is gone, but because such a crappy activity is all they seem to enjoy.

DanteZero.9736:

Add in toxic players with horrible attitudes, and you scare away new players

I have no doubt that the attitudes were the real cause of the changes to starter zone champions. I can see where the developer wouldn’t want that kind of environment. I can also see how increased reports would impact in-game CS, creating an efficiency or resource issue.

That said, though, I’ve never known anyone to get “scared away from” a game because some other players were arguing. Who would act that way? Kids hear worse at school all the time and likely don’t care. Mature adults would block, report or just shine it on.

IndigoSundown.5419:

DanteZero.9736:

Add in toxic players with horrible attitudes, and you scare away new players

I have no doubt that the attitudes were the real cause of the changes to starter zone champions. I can see where the developer wouldn’t want that kind of environment. I can also see how increased reports would impact in-game CS, creating an efficiency or resource issue.

Meanwhile:
“Zerker warr, lv80 or GTFO”

…Yup. Totally targeting the full extent of toxic attitudes by relegating it to that individual starter zone…

Xenon.4537:

Celtic Lady.3729:

See, that’s an assumption you make. Nothing says that people that ran the train will now spread out to other areas. They might simply leave the game.

Boy if the QD champ train was the last thread people hung on to and had no other reason to play GW2, I feel bad for them. Not because their train is gone, but because such a crappy activity is all they seem to enjoy.

Actually, it may be the last straw, not the last thread. I’ve played quite a number of MMOs and GW2 is by far the most nerfed game I’ve played – and that includes GW1. If I’m wrong, please, someone tell me of another game where so many things (skills, builds, events, loot drops, etc…) are nerfed. Regularly. I’ve loved this game since the beginning but the nerf trend isn’t getting any better. It’s almost as if the players are sort of held in contempt – like if a portion of the player base plays in a way that doesn’t fit some kind of mold, it’s wrong and nerfed.

And for what? Why was this needed? If there’s chat abuse, treat that with the protocol already set up. Why is supplementary nerfing required to control chat demeanor?

Anet actually made sense removing trains in starting zones.

Those places are where people start out playing, having them think that spamming 1 is all there is to this game has promoted bad gameplay for new people and prevented them from learning their classes properly.

It’s a long overdue move in the right direction encouraging better gameplay from people if they want the best rewards and not spamming 1 forever on their loot stick.

nethykins.7986:

IndigoSundown.5419:

DanteZero.9736:

Add in toxic players with horrible attitudes, and you scare away new players

I have no doubt that the attitudes were the real cause of the changes to starter zone champions. I can see where the developer wouldn’t want that kind of environment. I can also see how increased reports would impact in-game CS, creating an efficiency or resource issue.

Meanwhile:
“Zerker warr, lv80 or GTFO”

…Yup. Totally targeting the full extent of toxic attitudes by relegating it to that individual starter zone…

You fail to realize that you can simply not join those parties because they don’t want you and you don’t want them(each can play how they want).

If you are a newbie(or just wanna kill solo champs for the challenge) and want to kill a champ you will get yelled at and verbally abused by the zerg and you are stuck at the same zone with a zerg.

FYI:
For those people looking for champ farm you don’t have to look far. Do SE P1 in less than 5 mins = 5 champ boxes x 12 runs an hour = 60 boxes an hour.

Of course you will need to know how to use your utilities properly on this one and spamming 1 on your loot stick will only lengthen runs and mean less loot but it’s more rewarding than champ train.

Well, they must be doing something right. Gw2 forums has the most righteous fanboiz that I have ever encountered.

Anyway the whole point is that they are not selling so many new accounts these days, despite the half price sales. If they don’t want to start laying off staff right away (that will come later) then they need to economize (server mergers), and also generate some income (gem store).

That’s what I always figured would happen in the end because of the no monthly fee model. I would not be surprised if we don’t see some sort of ftp stuff in one or more of the starter zones soon.

If some of your players are being abusive you, as a game company, reprimand them in some fashion or another. Nerfing popular content because some of the people who enjoyed it were jerks is a bad precedent in my opinion.

Izaya.2906:

Anet actually made sense removing trains in starting zones.

Those places are where people start out playing, having them think that spamming 1 is all there is to this game has promoted bad gameplay for new people and prevented them from learning their classes properly.

It’s a long overdue move in the right direction encouraging better gameplay from people if they want the best rewards and not spamming 1 forever on their loot stick.

Hey, you know what else helps show players how to play a game properly, using all skills and showing them how the game really works?

Tutorials.

You know what this game does?
Pretty much gets you to spam 1 until you can unlock the other skills on the bar, or until you can get out of the instanced zone – whichever one comes first. Then pick up a new weapon and watch it happen all over again.

How about improving the first thing people encounter in game? Make a better tutorial and you’ll have less ‘press-1-spammers’

nethykins.7986:

IndigoSundown.5419:

DanteZero.9736:

Add in toxic players with horrible attitudes, and you scare away new players

I have no doubt that the attitudes were the real cause of the changes to starter zone champions. I can see where the developer wouldn’t want that kind of environment. I can also see how increased reports would impact in-game CS, creating an efficiency or resource issue.

Meanwhile:
“Zerker warr, lv80 or GTFO”

…Yup. Totally targeting the full extent of toxic attitudes by relegating it to that individual starter zone…

You fail to realize that you can simply not join those parties because they don’t want you and you don’t want them(each can play how they want).

And you fail to realise that you don’t have to stay in QD if you start out. If you’re human, you’ll come across it no doubt, but that’s suggesting that EVERY. SINGLE. PLAYER. is going to play human race.
Stating I don’t have to join those parties is akin to saying players don’t have to stay in the QD starting zone.
I can wholeheartedly agree with the former. Would you not agree with the latter?

If you are a newbie(or just wanna kill solo champs for the challenge) and want to kill a champ you will get yelled at and verbally abused by the zerg and you are stuck at the same zone with a zerg.

Assuming that those are the only champs that exist in QD – I’m quite sure there are more than that. And again, you’re never really “stuck” in a zone.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Kythan Myr.4719:

I’m confused.

Champs are buffed to drop boxes/bags
Champs drop rare skins. Cool looking BTW!
Three major trains are established.
One is nerfed (understandable) due to players letting events fail
Two remain for awhile
Then champ drops are nerfed (especially those coins)
FG chain is partially nerfed (Trio)
QD nerfed too the ground (possibly to the center of the earth one might say)

I’m not much affected. I participated a bit in the chains, but I would get bored too quick and got sick of the drama (especially in QD – /clap clap btw). So I can rightfully say I am not whining about these changes.

But What the Heck!. I’m confused, if you buff champ loot and then discourage trains. You encourage zergs/trains, but nerf the one most accessible. Was the intention all along to kill the occasional champ for loot and that ultra rare but ultra cool skin?? Should I participate in FG, Orr, EotM chains or are there nerfs incoming there too? Ban-hammers coming??

So what ANET is your vision about champs and farming them? What is your opinion of zerging and trains? Why encourage them through game design and then nerf?

I’m so confused??? 0_o

Answer is NO to farming. What don’t you understand about that? They said from beta they don’t believe in farming. They have it so you only get one champ bag a day from them, not every 20 minutes, that was an exploit.

i guess i’ll have to get powerful venom sacs and elaborate totems to appear out of sheer force of will then. i mean i get it, legendary weapons should be hard to obtain, but when you eliminate the easiest and least headache inducing method to obtaining them, what’s left? if they won’t allow champ farming, do they think that people won’t go farm random mobs that have better chances of dropping x T6 materials? by that logic, when will that be eliminated too?

nethykins.7986:

IndigoSundown.5419:

DanteZero.9736:

Add in toxic players with horrible attitudes, and you scare away new players

I have no doubt that the attitudes were the real cause of the changes to starter zone champions. I can see where the developer wouldn’t want that kind of environment. I can also see how increased reports would impact in-game CS, creating an efficiency or resource issue.

Meanwhile:
“Zerker warr, lv80 or GTFO”

…Yup. Totally targeting the full extent of toxic attitudes by relegating it to that individual starter zone…

How many people report others for LFG posts? Where do the arguments about group composition take place? Companies care less about toxic attitudes than they do about toxic appearances.

nethykins.7986:

Izaya.2906:

Anet actually made sense removing trains in starting zones.

Those places are where people start out playing, having them think that spamming 1 is all there is to this game has promoted bad gameplay for new people and prevented them from learning their classes properly.

It’s a long overdue move in the right direction encouraging better gameplay from people if they want the best rewards and not spamming 1 forever on their loot stick.

Hey, you know what else helps show players how to play a game properly, using all skills and showing them how the game really works?

Tutorials.

You know what this game does?
Pretty much gets you to spam 1 until you can unlock the other skills on the bar, or until you can get out of the instanced zone – whichever one comes first. Then pick up a new weapon and watch it happen all over again.

How about improving the first thing people encounter in game? Make a better tutorial and you’ll have less ‘press-1-spammers’

nethykins.7986:

IndigoSundown.5419:

DanteZero.9736:

Add in toxic players with horrible attitudes, and you scare away new players

I have no doubt that the attitudes were the real cause of the changes to starter zone champions. I can see where the developer wouldn’t want that kind of environment. I can also see how increased reports would impact in-game CS, creating an efficiency or resource issue.

Meanwhile:
“Zerker warr, lv80 or GTFO”

…Yup. Totally targeting the full extent of toxic attitudes by relegating it to that individual starter zone…

You fail to realize that you can simply not join those parties because they don’t want you and you don’t want them(each can play how they want).

And you fail to realise that you don’t have to stay in QD if you start out. If you’re human, you’ll come across it no doubt, but that’s suggesting that EVERY. SINGLE. PLAYER. is going to play human race.
Stating I don’t have to join those parties is akin to saying players don’t have to stay in the QD starting zone.
I can wholeheartedly agree with the former. Would you not agree with the latter?

If you are a newbie(or just wanna kill solo champs for the challenge) and want to kill a champ you will get yelled at and verbally abused by the zerg and you are stuck at the same zone with a zerg.

Assuming that those are the only champs that exist in QD – I’m quite sure there are more than that. And again, you’re never really “stuck” in a zone.

No amount of tutorial can help if you encourage 1 spamming by being the most lucrative gold:skill cap activity in the game. Harder content needs to clearly be superior when it comes to reward to face roll content.

Traits, weapons, utilties being locked is an issue when it comes to learning everything I will admit that, it’s the trade off for progression as you level up/acquire more skill points/gold/move around the map.

Statistically, human race is the most often picked race by players in the game. If you are a new player you won’t even have an idea how to move to other lower racial starting zones for a while. And FYI they removed champs from not just QD among all starting areas.

If people want to stay in QD, are you saying they should be forced to move to another zone if they don’t want to deal with the zerg? lol

I’ll repeat it again, champ farming hasn’t been removed. Go do SE P1, 60 champ bags per hour easy(if you know how to play your class)

Is so sad seeing the Troll as a simpleton and sad veteran.
Used to be a threat, a force to be feared. Now is a joke. And a bad one.

Bellizare.5816:

Anyway the whole point is that they are not selling so many new accounts these days, despite the half price sales…

China says hello.

Bellizare.5816:

That’s what I always figured would happen in the end because of the no monthly fee model. I would not be surprised if we don’t see some sort of ftp stuff in one or more of the starter zones soon.

GW1 lasted a long time on the same model. HOWEVER… they had Factions, Nightfall, and EotN to help them out. >.>

The reason why I liked the QD train was because it was easy to train alt characters there. I find map completion boring, I dislike PVP and WVW, so the best way to train new characters was in QD. that is no longer possible and now in order to level them you have to “play the way it was intended” and do map completion and all that. That gets boring and tedious really quick, not to mention it takes multiple times longer than the train did.

I didn’t really do QD train for loot, but its always a nice bonus.

I find it ironic so many people complain that the game keeps taking more and more away from them. If you played this at launch and look at yourself now, you’re all drowning in loot and cash.

I could barely afford the 2G to buy a grandmaster trait book on my first character. World bosses had no extra chest, dungeons didn’t give bonus gold, champions didn’t have loot bags. You had COF with omnomberry cuisine and that was it, pretty much.

They have given a lot more loot and gold over time, but if they take away the slightest bit people scream and shout as if it’s the end of the world. Tsss.
Maybe a part of the problem lies in the fact that some want to have much more, much faster, all of the time.

Realist.5812:

When they implemented champion loot they intended it to make the time and challenge of killing a champion to be somewhat worth it.

They intended for killing champions as you come across them, in dungeons, fractals, WvW, world bosses and certain events, to be worth it.

They did not want people FARMING champions in 50 man “1” mashing zombie mode groups, for hours on end, and not doing anything else in the game.

The question to ask is, “Why were/are people ignoring so much of the game to concentrate on what they found to be the most rewarding content?” ANet designed the game’s reward systems around the idea that players would repeat content because it is fun. However, no matter how great content is, many players reach a kind of diminishing returns on fun after they’ve repeated that content a given number of times.

All MMO’s extend the life of content via the use of rewards. Most of GW2’s real rewards are gated behind incremental acquisition of either gold or materials — many of which can be both farmed or bought on the TP. Very few game activities offer what players consider to be a decent return for their time (i.e., gold, so they can progress towards what they really want). The deferred gratification of incremental rewards, coupled with what is perceived to be miniscule rewards for most game activities, generates the sense that the game is not rewarding. Hence people flock to content that is perceived to offer the best return.

I agree that simple play generating some of the better rewards is not ideal game design. However, when ANet has offered “better” rewards, people flock to that content to the exclusion of other content. Then ANet creates more time-gating — either by nerfing the rewards, extending timers or — in this case — eliminating Champions. This tactic is not well received, nor should it be.

Champ farming is a gaming oddity — but it occurs because of the way the game’s rewards are designed. Incremental rewards only work for a subset of the population. For others, it just generates a feeling of drudgery. There are very few rewards for skilled play. There are too many tiers of gear. Most loot drops are either mats — or get salvaged for mats. Most of the game rewards very little. This is horrible design — so it’s not hard to figure out why bizarre play patterns result.

Realist.5812:

Im Mudbone.1437

Not being very realistic there mr realist(time to spend your gems on a name-change contract). There are many who have already done everything to be done in this game(you can name it and i’ve done it or tried it ad-nauseum) and farm while waiting on the next NEW thing to do(not some old tired, rehashed crap), that is also mindless. I paid money for the game I will play it LIKE I WANT TO not how you or anyone else tries to DICTATE.

Cool story.

Sounds like you’re not getting enjoyment from the game in any of its aspects, may I suggest playing another game for a few weeks so you have some enjoyment until they do release something?

I’m trying to help you to have fun, since it is clear you are not having any fun with the current direction of the game.

Mindlessly grinding faceroll content is not fun, if it was, you’d still be doing the QD train minus the loot. Since you’re not still doing the lootless QD train, you were never having fun to begin with.

Don’t take your anger out on the players trying to point you in the right direction, take it out on ANet for their poor business model that is leading you to not have fun.

MrPersons.1560:

The reason why I liked the QD train was because it was easy to train alt characters there. I find map completion boring, I dislike PVP and WVW, so the best way to train new characters was in QD. that is no longer possible and now in order to level them you have to “play the way it was intended” and do map completion and all that. That gets boring and tedious really quick, not to mention it takes multiple times longer than the train did.

I didn’t really do QD train for loot, but its always a nice bonus.

You never did it for the loot? You did it strictly for levelling?

Fear not! You can still do the train til your heart is content, its all still there, train it up!

‘au contraire mon frere’ I quite enjoy what I do(which is hard-core farming) and I have fun doing it, that’s why I won’t let the likes of you and your ilk DICTATE how I should play the game, I play it how I LIKE which so happens to be farming EVERYTHING from low to high level areas and I have never belittled or harrassed others in-game for playing how they like, I don’t nor have I ever stayed in one area for long and I salvage 95% of everything I get and horde the mats I get for crafting, to sell on the TP or help my guild-mates out when in need. As for your mentioning the idea of playing something else until new content comes out, I do that as well it’s called GW1 which I absolutely love.

Evans.6347:

I find it ironic so many people complain that the game keeps taking more and more away from them. If you played this at launch and look at yourself now, you’re all drowning in loot and cash.

I could barely afford the 2G to buy a grandmaster trait book on my first character. World bosses had no extra chest, dungeons didn’t give bonus gold, champions didn’t have loot bags. You had COF with omnomberry cuisine and that was it, pretty much.

They have given a lot more loot and gold over time, but if they take away the slightest bit people scream and shout as if it’s the end of the world. Tsss.
Maybe a part of the problem lies in the fact that some want to have much more, much faster, all of the time.

mmm I was here at pre- release and the betas.
my first 80 had 57 silver when I hit 80 and that was a fortune.

What you seem to forget is just how cheap things were back then.
Even gems were dirt cheap

2 years later…. we have a totally different story.
People need more money now just to get basic stuff- forget about crafting and luxuries.
TP flippers are in game moguls- the rest of us not so much- I have under 10g in my account, I don’t think that makes me exactly greedy do you?

Morrigan.2809:

Evans.6347:

I find it ironic so many people complain that the game keeps taking more and more away from them. If you played this at launch and look at yourself now, you’re all drowning in loot and cash.

I could barely afford the 2G to buy a grandmaster trait book on my first character. World bosses had no extra chest, dungeons didn’t give bonus gold, champions didn’t have loot bags. You had COF with omnomberry cuisine and that was it, pretty much.

They have given a lot more loot and gold over time, but if they take away the slightest bit people scream and shout as if it’s the end of the world. Tsss.
Maybe a part of the problem lies in the fact that some want to have much more, much faster, all of the time.

mmm I was here at pre- release and the betas.
my first 80 had 57 silver when I hit 80 and that was a fortune.

What you seem to forget is just how cheap things were back then.
Even gems were dirt cheap

2 years later…. we have a totally different story.
People need more money now just to get basic stuff- forget about crafting and luxuries.
TP flippers are in game moguls- the rest of us not so much- I have under 10g in my account, I don’t think that makes me exactly greedy do you?

Still a bit over the top. I was way too poor to buy exotics, nowadays these are dirt cheap. Also, gems were cheap, but that also meant people buying gems with cash were not getting much out of it.

We have more money now, but relatively speaking basic things were much more expensive then. Now it’s mostly vanity that’s off the charts.

Azhure.1857:

Galen Grey.4709:

Now Remember not everyone is a farmer thus players who dont farm need to compete with farmers since gathers are not going to charge 2 prices for farmers and everyone else. Only they have no way of affording 50s per log because their ingame income is way lower then that. So what can they do? start farming 24/7 which they dont enjoy doing or use the credit card ?

Which scenario is more likely?

There is another scenario.
The people that don’t farm hardcore, that aren’t competing for the fastest gold count increase, that aren’t using their credit card to make up any perceived difference.
I’m one of those people. Granted, it takes me FAR longer than a farmer to get this “shiny” and that “precious item” – but I find I rather enjoy my style of gameplay.
Yes, I’m the tortoise.

then you’re doing it right

Jaken.6801:

1. No, i am against stacking, but that is another topic.

2. No, farming in general is a way to play, which exploits a system to get the greatest benefit with the “least” amount of effort.
The type of effort does not matter in that case, since the goal is the gold in the end.

The Champion Lootbags were put in to give people an insentive to do harder enemies in game and not ignore them.

These prooved to be so profitable that the champtrain was born.

Something that was designed to reward people for doing a challenging content was reduced to a mindless pinata and i cannot believe that was the idea behind this system.

However i am not against a farm in general. people should do what they like, but not intrude into other peoples enjoyment of the game.
This is something that has happened here.

3. There are several instances in which people reported that they got pulled in the train and thought,t hat this was the “only” way to play.
Yes, some people are so “easy” to manipulate.
Queensdale is a beginner zone and exposing such behaviour to new players so early in the game is counterproductive.
GW2 is a game that is “supposed” to be played by knowing your class and its mechanics. There are a lot of mechanics in this game people have to learn.
A mindless follow the comander and press 1, in which every diversion of the planned route gets scolded by the zerg (some more, some less, it depends) is indeed a toxic enviroment for new players.

As Queensdale is an introduction area, this kind of “content” should be only there in a reduced manner.

4. Which gear do you “need” to buy? As far as i know you can easily get your exo equip done without farming and just playing the game.
Of course if you want some specific skins, then you might have to do other stuff, or be lucky.
Again, you are worked up, because the “shortest” route to your goal has been compromised, so you have to resort to some “slower” routes to get to your goal.

5. You vent your anger here about other not resolved problems in the game.
Yes they are still there. however calling them out and saying that they “do not care”, is a rather narrow perspective.
Maybe these problems are much more complicated then you and many other players can imagine.
With thousands of players playing 24/7 and only a certain amount of people to work on problems, who do you think will be faster finding faults in the system?
Players of course.
not everyone will tell them how it was done, so the devs have to figre it out themselves, trying to reproduce and fix the stuff.

At the same time people demand for new stuff.

Yes, you can complain, but they are only human and they can only do so much.
Yes, it feels slow and it feels like they do not listen (where they should be a bit more open about which problems are on the table and which not), but they can only go, step by step. One problem at a time, since resolving one, can open another one.

Calling farming an exploit? You must be new to the MMORPG/ARPG world. I welcome you. Also here’s a definition of what farming is

Farm(ing)

The act of accumulating currency or items by constantly killing a mob or repeatedly performing a series of actions.

In D2 have done thousands Mephisto runs. And so in MMO dungeons/raids
Apparently, farming in games is a legit activity. Who would have thought?

I don’t know if QL was profitable, but the rest champ trains were under 10g/h before the nerf of champbags few patches ago. It was never profitable, it was only easier, since you could do something else between the waiting. It wasn’t " challenging content " neither.
People pulled in the train and thought,t hat this was the “only” way to play? lol. Not sure if serious…
Since the 15th april’s patch I’ve bought two more armor sets and runes, and yes, it’s expensive. Valkyrie/Cavalier can only be crafted/tp.
People make posts about wvw cheating for months, threads are deleted, some even banned from forums. Anet plays dead. And you tell me it doesn’t mean they don’t care?
The problem is easy to fix, but what to expect from someone who can’t fix a tooltip text-error for 2 years?

Whiteknights everywhere.

MrPersons.1560:

The reason why I liked the QD train was because it was easy to train alt characters there. I find map completion boring, I dislike PVP and WVW, so the best way to train new characters was in QD. that is no longer possible and now in order to level them you have to “play the way it was intended” and do map completion and all that. That gets boring and tedious really quick, not to mention it takes multiple times longer than the train did.

I didn’t really do QD train for loot, but its always a nice bonus.

QD train wasnt really that good for exp compared to other options, i suggest you do eotm, make sure you wait till the commander comes around, because trying to get to the zerg is the worst part.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

This is all wrong where do you come up with this stuff LMFAO. If you increased drops there would be no need for ever buying gold as you would just go and loot it. By making the things rarer drops it means you MUST go through the TP to get what you want.

I was talking about gold not rare drops

That being said I am still unsure thats the case. Just look at the first time we got craftable ascended stuff. Do you remember a single ancient wood log selling for 10s! 10s! with 4 level 80 chars one could easily gather 144 logs for a street market value of 14.5 in something like 30 mins. Even now its still sitting at 5s a piece nearly 5 times the price its been between launch and the day craftable ascended stuff was released. it takes 30 mins to gather 144 logs with 4 chars even now a days people still happily pay 7g to avoid gathering for 30 mins.
[/quote]

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

By them letting the TP to be controlled by a small portion of the population, those few can afford the high prices and keep them high so they can make money. Which makes it harder for your average player, who doesn’t game the TP, for them to buy what they want. With out any way to grind gold in the game the quickest and easiest way to get that gold is to buy it and they are even advertising that now.

You said it yourself “By them letting the TP to be controlled by a small portion of the population, those few can afford the high prices and keep them high so they can make money. " again lets take ancient logs. Why are people willing to pay 7g for 144 ancient logs? because a good farm can make that in an hour maybe 2. If farming where nerfed down to the point where its more close to other activities say 50s per hour instead of 5-10g per hour do you still think people would still be paying 5s per piece?

Thing is for what you’re saying to be true, people income needs to fall while selling price needs to remain the same and that will not happen since they’re tied to each other.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/phoenix-weapons-new-faces-and-more-in-the-gem-store/

“Get More Gold!

Remember that you can exchange gems and gold at our currency exchange on the second tab of the Black Lion Trading Company! Currently, you can get 1 gold for about 15 gems and 50 gold for about 670 gems! "

The agenda is obvious, how anyone can say that is not what they are doing is laughable.

That they want to sell is obvious no doubt doesnt mean every change they make is designed to push for it. I am pretty confident that buffing trains would create a bigger market for gold to gems exchange then nerfing it. Simply because you get rich farmers and poor everyone else. Rich farmers would keep prices up and everyone else would be forced to either farm or exchange gems to keep up. If everyone gets less income then prices will fall and it doesnt matter. There is no difference between something costing 10g when you have an income of 1g per hour or something that costs 100g but you have an income of 10g per hour.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

I will say that nerfing QD train is meh. I saw nothing wrong with the train but from what I hear there is other ones now so doesn’t really matter. It is kind of messed up for new characters though since they nerfed the trait system and made it an absurd grind and that would at least help you get though it.

How would the champion train help you get through the trait system?

whats the next big thing?

Galen Grey.4709:

[…]

How would the champion train help you get through the trait system?

Champions were a fast and easy source of skillpoints and coins.

It’s one of the reasons why the new healing skills got 25 skillpoint costs. Metrics tell ANet how much gold and sillpoints people have, and so many people had enough from champions trains to make 25 skillpoints reasonable for a healing skill that should have had a cost of 6…10.

phys.7689:

MrPersons.1560:

The reason why I liked the QD train was because it was easy to train alt characters there. I find map completion boring, I dislike PVP and WVW, so the best way to train new characters was in QD. that is no longer possible and now in order to level them you have to “play the way it was intended” and do map completion and all that. That gets boring and tedious really quick, not to mention it takes multiple times longer than the train did.

I didn’t really do QD train for loot, but its always a nice bonus.

QD train wasnt really that good for exp compared to other options, i suggest you do eotm, make sure you wait till the commander comes around, because trying to get to the zerg is the worst part.

I tried eotm when it came out for training, and I did it the other night now that QD is gone, but I really don’t like it. There is always the threat of getting steamrolled by another zerg (which happens a lot) I have no idea where I am going (personal problem) and that it takes much longer when you have to beat down castle walls, gates and such. In QD it was consistent, you stopped when you wanted, not when you died or the round was over.

And as I stated, I didn’t really do it for loot, but the only loot I get from eotm seems to be the honor token things, no actual items.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

If you can get rewards in the game then why would you spend $100 a month in the gem store?

I think people including Anet needs to step off this mentality when it comes to rewarding gameplay. How exactly does screwing with reward drops make anyone satisfied enough with the game to want to spend money in the gem store? Shouldn’t it be the other way around?

Shouldn’t they be trying to make players happy enough that they would gladly “donate” money to buy more stuff from the gem store? When the game first came out my plan was to put in $20 every other month and use it to upgrade my account stuff, no different from paying a sub fee, I did it once right after release. But after the black lion chest at halloween con, plans for ascended items, and general lack of decent rewards for pretty much anything in the game, nerf after nerf of farms, I’ve changed my mind and I’ve never sunk another dollar into the game. I wonder how many others are in my shoes with this.

They apparently are only interested in the big fish to pay them for every costume and mini that comes out, but it would be so much better for them if even the average joe was plucking down $20 every other month rather than never(while still getting the big fish). You do that by giving appropriate rewards for the time spent, people are generally happy to walk away with even a bag full of blues and greens. You provide terrible rewards like the pavilion and people are not going to flock to the store to get their convenience and cosmetic items, just gives people another reason not to reward Anet either.

The trains were mindless fun. You were not going to get rich or level incredibly fast. They were just fun. Bunch of people going from point to point killing stuff and getting some modest loot. Lots of laughs along the way. Too bad hard cores couldn’t deal with average folk just having a good time.

Izaya.2906:

Anet actually made sense removing trains in starting zones.

Those places are where people start out playing, having them think that spamming 1 is all there is to this game has promoted bad gameplay for new people and prevented them from learning their classes properly.

It’s a long overdue move in the right direction encouraging better gameplay from people if they want the best rewards and not spamming 1 forever on their loot stick.

nethykins.7986:

IndigoSundown.5419:

DanteZero.9736:

Add in toxic players with horrible attitudes, and you scare away new players

I have no doubt that the attitudes were the real cause of the changes to starter zone champions. I can see where the developer wouldn’t want that kind of environment. I can also see how increased reports would impact in-game CS, creating an efficiency or resource issue.

Meanwhile:
“Zerker warr, lv80 or GTFO”

…Yup. Totally targeting the full extent of toxic attitudes by relegating it to that individual starter zone…

You fail to realize that you can simply not join those parties because they don’t want you and you don’t want them(each can play how they want).

If you are a newbie(or just wanna kill solo champs for the challenge) and want to kill a champ you will get yelled at and verbally abused by the zerg and you are stuck at the same zone with a zerg.

FYI:
For those people looking for champ farm you don’t have to look far. Do SE P1 in less than 5 mins = 5 champ boxes x 12 runs an hour = 60 boxes an hour.

Of course you will need to know how to use your utilities properly on this one and spamming 1 on your loot stick will only lengthen runs and mean less loot but it’s more rewarding than champ train.

It’s not all about the loot. Game is supposed to be social. Train was exactly that. It was fun.

Izaya.2906:

nethykins.7986:

Izaya.2906:

Anet actually made sense removing trains in starting zones.

Those places are where people start out playing, having them think that spamming 1 is all there is to this game has promoted bad gameplay for new people and prevented them from learning their classes properly.

It’s a long overdue move in the right direction encouraging better gameplay from people if they want the best rewards and not spamming 1 forever on their loot stick.

Hey, you know what else helps show players how to play a game properly, using all skills and showing them how the game really works?

Tutorials.

You know what this game does?
Pretty much gets you to spam 1 until you can unlock the other skills on the bar, or until you can get out of the instanced zone – whichever one comes first. Then pick up a new weapon and watch it happen all over again.

How about improving the first thing people encounter in game? Make a better tutorial and you’ll have less ‘press-1-spammers’

nethykins.7986:

IndigoSundown.5419:

DanteZero.9736:

Add in toxic players with horrible attitudes, and you scare away new players

I have no doubt that the attitudes were the real cause of the changes to starter zone champions. I can see where the developer wouldn’t want that kind of environment. I can also see how increased reports would impact in-game CS, creating an efficiency or resource issue.

Meanwhile:
“Zerker warr, lv80 or GTFO”

…Yup. Totally targeting the full extent of toxic attitudes by relegating it to that individual starter zone…

You fail to realize that you can simply not join those parties because they don’t want you and you don’t want them(each can play how they want).

And you fail to realise that you don’t have to stay in QD if you start out. If you’re human, you’ll come across it no doubt, but that’s suggesting that EVERY. SINGLE. PLAYER. is going to play human race.
Stating I don’t have to join those parties is akin to saying players don’t have to stay in the QD starting zone.
I can wholeheartedly agree with the former. Would you not agree with the latter?

If you are a newbie(or just wanna kill solo champs for the challenge) and want to kill a champ you will get yelled at and verbally abused by the zerg and you are stuck at the same zone with a zerg.

Assuming that those are the only champs that exist in QD – I’m quite sure there are more than that. And again, you’re never really “stuck” in a zone.

No amount of tutorial can help if you encourage 1 spamming by being the most lucrative gold:skill cap activity in the game. Harder content needs to clearly be superior when it comes to reward to face roll content.

Traits, weapons, utilties being locked is an issue when it comes to learning everything I will admit that, it’s the trade off for progression as you level up/acquire more skill points/gold/move around the map.

Statistically, human race is the most often picked race by players in the game. If you are a new player you won’t even have an idea how to move to other lower racial starting zones for a while. And FYI they removed champs from not just QD among all starting areas.

If people want to stay in QD, are you saying they should be forced to move to another zone if they don’t want to deal with the zerg? lol

I’ll repeat it again, champ farming hasn’t been removed. Go do SE P1, 60 champ bags per hour easy(if you know how to play your class)

This^^ also you can get 32-48 champ bags per/hr from crown pavilion but that req about 50-60 people that know what they are doing

People fail to realize that dungeons aren’t for everyone. I don’t use TS. I can’t be glued to my computer, so I don’t do dungeons because I don’t want to be the kitten that has to quit part way through. So, I’m left with ways to make gold that are through “regular” PvE content or WvW. Aaaand… there’s just not much to be made, although for sure Cursed Shore is better than WvW at this point due to megaserver and constant events and champ spawns. Do I look forward to any of the loot I get? NO… emphatically NO. It’s all the same garbage.

I had never been a fan of the QD train due to all the kittens that intentionally derailed it on a constant basis, but I had enjoyed the FGS train. It was something that I could jump into and out of without putting anyone out. I had made a few freinds and the chat was usually fun. Before the last, last patch, it paid about the same as doing dungeon runs. Now, ya, you can do it, but it’s really not worth it.

TL;DR: I now have 1 or 2 places to “hang out” in the game. It’s no longer fun. Loot is abysmal. Those are my particular issues with all the NERFS.

Xenon.4537:

Celtic Lady.3729:

See, that’s an assumption you make. Nothing says that people that ran the train will now spread out to other areas. They might simply leave the game.

Boy if the QD champ train was the last thread people hung on to and had no other reason to play GW2, I feel bad for them. Not because their train is gone, but because such a crappy activity is all they seem to enjoy.

Maybe it’s all they know how to do?

Lightsbane.9012:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Kythan Myr.4719:

I’m confused.

Champs are buffed to drop boxes/bags
Champs drop rare skins. Cool looking BTW!
Three major trains are established.
One is nerfed (understandable) due to players letting events fail
Two remain for awhile
Then champ drops are nerfed (especially those coins)
FG chain is partially nerfed (Trio)
QD nerfed too the ground (possibly to the center of the earth one might say)

I’m not much affected. I participated a bit in the chains, but I would get bored too quick and got sick of the drama (especially in QD – /clap clap btw). So I can rightfully say I am not whining about these changes.

But What the Heck!. I’m confused, if you buff champ loot and then discourage trains. You encourage zergs/trains, but nerf the one most accessible. Was the intention all along to kill the occasional champ for loot and that ultra rare but ultra cool skin?? Should I participate in FG, Orr, EotM chains or are there nerfs incoming there too? Ban-hammers coming??

So what ANET is your vision about champs and farming them? What is your opinion of zerging and trains? Why encourage them through game design and then nerf?

I’m so confused??? 0_o

Answer is NO to farming. What don’t you understand about that? They said from beta they don’t believe in farming. They have it so you only get one champ bag a day from them, not every 20 minutes, that was an exploit.

i guess i’ll have to get powerful venom sacs and elaborate totems to appear out of sheer force of will then. i mean i get it, legendary weapons should be hard to obtain, but when you eliminate the easiest and least headache inducing method to obtaining them, what’s left? if they won’t allow champ farming, do they think that people won’t go farm random mobs that have better chances of dropping x T6 materials? by that logic, when will that be eliminated too?

Anet doesn’t Like people farming mobs. Some say that it breaks immersion. I call kitten. How many times In our history did hunters go out to where they knew game would be, shoot a few, to get pelts, then sold the pelts?

Is that sort of gathering not the same as what some player is doing when he finds a bunch o f trogs that drop the Bones and Blood he needs? or Just wants to sell?

I used to be a “fangirl”. But lately, almost all the news is about " This awesome skin…on the gem store…. this new outfit…. on the gem store…"

It is beginning to feel like a cash grab. Which is sad. When you eliminate any way to farm gold… other than what it takes to hit level 80…" you can get enough for the armor you need to hit level 80"…that begins to feel entirely too much Like.." Luxuries? you don’t need them, you can earn just enough to pay your rent and bills."

Stevie Wonder sang a song about it.

Living just enough for the city.

The champion loot bags were never intended to be hardcore farmed – and certainly not in zerg trains. The reasoning behind their initial implementation was to reward champions and group events that were previously neglected. In other words, they were meant to reward players for going out of their way and experiencing more of the world.

It was the community that exploited the rewards change with the QD, FG, and CS champ trains. This playstyle was never intended and is being dealt with accordingly. And why shouldn’t it be? It has always been an overly easy and mindless farming solution that did not provide an adequate challenge to rewards ratio.

mjhungness.8059:

Xenon.4537:

Celtic Lady.3729:

See, that’s an assumption you make. Nothing says that people that ran the train will now spread out to other areas. They might simply leave the game.

Boy if the QD champ train was the last thread people hung on to and had no other reason to play GW2, I feel bad for them. Not because their train is gone, but because such a crappy activity is all they seem to enjoy.

Actually, it may be the last straw, not the last thread. I’ve played quite a number of MMOs and GW2 is by far the most nerfed game I’ve played – and that includes GW1. If I’m wrong, please, someone tell me of another game where so many things (skills, builds, events, loot drops, etc…) are nerfed. Regularly. I’ve loved this game since the beginning but the nerf trend isn’t getting any better. It’s almost as if the players are sort of held in contempt – like if a portion of the player base plays in a way that doesn’t fit some kind of mold, it’s wrong and nerfed.

And for what? Why was this needed? If there’s chat abuse, treat that with the protocol already set up. Why is supplementary nerfing required to control chat demeanor?

RIFT – In the first 3 months they nerfed so many professions to make them unplayable. The nerfs in RIFT were based on whiney players on the forums also. This game is nothing compared to that.

Be careful what you wish for, you may just get it.

Dusty Moon.4382:

mjhungness.8059:

Xenon.4537:

Celtic Lady.3729:

See, that’s an assumption you make. Nothing says that people that ran the train will now spread out to other areas. They might simply leave the game.

Boy if the QD champ train was the last thread people hung on to and had no other reason to play GW2, I feel bad for them. Not because their train is gone, but because such a crappy activity is all they seem to enjoy.

Actually, it may be the last straw, not the last thread. I’ve played quite a number of MMOs and GW2 is by far the most nerfed game I’ve played – and that includes GW1. If I’m wrong, please, someone tell me of another game where so many things (skills, builds, events, loot drops, etc…) are nerfed. Regularly. I’ve loved this game since the beginning but the nerf trend isn’t getting any better. It’s almost as if the players are sort of held in contempt – like if a portion of the player base plays in a way that doesn’t fit some kind of mold, it’s wrong and nerfed.

And for what? Why was this needed? If there’s chat abuse, treat that with the protocol already set up. Why is supplementary nerfing required to control chat demeanor?

RIFT – In the first 3 months they nerfed so many professions to make them unplayable. The nerfs in RIFT were based on whiney players on the forums also. This game is nothing compared to that.

Be careful what you wish for, you may just get it.

And Yet I enjoy playing RIFT More than I enjoy GW2 now. Maybe they are doing things differently than you claim? I have been playing RIFT for years. I have yet to see any class that is useless. Sometimes it’s Not the class that is bad, sometimes it’s the player and the class not jelling.

Sometimes it’s a Learn2play issue.

Sometimes it’s the player not Understanding what the class is good at.

But Near unplayable classes in RIFT? Maybe we both played different games named RIFT?

Im Mudbone.1437:

Woljnir.7810:

The Queensdale train simply had to go. It was not a beginner friendly map in the least. The Frostgorge should have remained intact though. It was an end game area and not a lot going on that the train would have ruined.

The FGS train is just fine, I like the trio, you get a box from each boss body drop and a 4th delivered on side of screen,

Oh. I wasn’t exactly sure the state of that train. I just remember all the uproar when it was changed.

They could just limit the amount of champ bags you get per day instead of ruining it for everyone.

Dusty Moon.4382:

mjhungness.8059:

Xenon.4537:

Celtic Lady.3729:

See, that’s an assumption you make. Nothing says that people that ran the train will now spread out to other areas. They might simply leave the game.

Boy if the QD champ train was the last thread people hung on to and had no other reason to play GW2, I feel bad for them. Not because their train is gone, but because such a crappy activity is all they seem to enjoy.

Actually, it may be the last straw, not the last thread. I’ve played quite a number of MMOs and GW2 is by far the most nerfed game I’ve played – and that includes GW1. If I’m wrong, please, someone tell me of another game where so many things (skills, builds, events, loot drops, etc…) are nerfed. Regularly. I’ve loved this game since the beginning but the nerf trend isn’t getting any better. It’s almost as if the players are sort of held in contempt – like if a portion of the player base plays in a way that doesn’t fit some kind of mold, it’s wrong and nerfed.

And for what? Why was this needed? If there’s chat abuse, treat that with the protocol already set up. Why is supplementary nerfing required to control chat demeanor?

RIFT – In the first 3 months they nerfed so many professions to make them unplayable. The nerfs in RIFT were based on whiney players on the forums also. This game is nothing compared to that.

Be careful what you wish for, you may just get it.

Ummm, isn’t RIFT sorta dead? I’m not sure what the ‘be careful what you wish for’ comment means in the context of my post – what do you think I’m wishing for? I’m so tired of nerfing that I’m taking a break and checking out other games that are out there. Sure as heck won’t be RIFT, based on your post, though…