Guild Wars 2

ciannait.1945:

Ixal.7924:

ciannait.1945:

GW2 is about having fun while you’re playing

And a lot of players are lacking exactly that.

And a lot of players aren’t. The game may not be for you, but that doesn’t mean it’s worthless.

Who exactly is this game for, then? For casual players who don’t care about the quality and potential of a videogame? This argument makes no sense. Saying “this game is perfect if you don’t like it go play something else” isn’t helping anything except maybe your buyer’s remorse. This game needs to improve for the sake of all players.

Zambino.3061:

ciannait.1945:

Ixal.7924:

ciannait.1945:

GW2 is about having fun while you’re playing

And a lot of players are lacking exactly that.

And a lot of players aren’t. The game may not be for you, but that doesn’t mean it’s worthless.

Who exactly is this game for, then? For casual players who don’t care about the quality and potential of a videogame? This argument makes no sense. Saying “this game is perfect if you don’t like it go play something else” isn’t helping anything except maybe your buyer’s remorse. This game needs to improve for the sake of all players.

That’s not what I said. I said, a lot of people are enjoying the game. If your feedback is you don’t like it that’s fine, but it’s not exactly actionable. You’re allowed to have your opinion. Mine is that I’m having fun, I’ve gotten my $60 worth and I’m not at end-game yet.

Getting your moneys worth is completely subjective. I don’t care if GW2 cost $10 or $300. The game does not hold a candle to its predecessor’s depth and that should be something everyone can acknowledge

ciannait.1945:

That’s not what I said. I said, a lot of people are enjoying the game. If your feedback is you don’t like it that’s fine, but it’s not exactly actionable. You’re allowed to have your opinion. Mine is that I’m having fun, I’ve gotten my $60 worth and I’m not at end-game yet.

Just wait till you are. The closer you get to 80 the less fun the game gets.

Define predecessor. GW1 without any expansions was also not a very deep game.

Ixal.7924:

ciannait.1945:

That’s not what I said. I said, a lot of people are enjoying the game. If your feedback is you don’t like it that’s fine, but it’s not exactly actionable. You’re allowed to have your opinion. Mine is that I’m having fun, I’ve gotten my $60 worth and I’m not at end-game yet.

Just wait till you are. The closer you get to 80 the less fun the game gets.

Again, actionable feedback is going to be more effective for Anet than “it’s not fun and it’s not WoW”. What’s not fun about it, and what would make it more fun for you? I’m genuinely curious.

ciannait.1945:

Ixal.7924:

ciannait.1945:

That’s not what I said. I said, a lot of people are enjoying the game. If your feedback is you don’t like it that’s fine, but it’s not exactly actionable. You’re allowed to have your opinion. Mine is that I’m having fun, I’ve gotten my $60 worth and I’m not at end-game yet.

Just wait till you are. The closer you get to 80 the less fun the game gets.

Again, actionable feedback is going to be more effective for Anet than “it’s not fun and it’s not WoW”. What’s not fun about it, and what would make it more fun for you? I’m genuinely curious.

More variety of content, more challenge, endgame. I’m not paid to develop videogames and come up with solutions, so it’s up to them to decide on what to do about these problems that are affecting the game’s longevity.

ciannait.1945:

Ixal.7924:

ciannait.1945:

That’s not what I said. I said, a lot of people are enjoying the game. If your feedback is you don’t like it that’s fine, but it’s not exactly actionable. You’re allowed to have your opinion. Mine is that I’m having fun, I’ve gotten my $60 worth and I’m not at end-game yet.

Just wait till you are. The closer you get to 80 the less fun the game gets.

Again, actionable feedback is going to be more effective for Anet than “it’s not fun and it’s not WoW”. What’s not fun about it, and what would make it more fun for you? I’m genuinely curious.

I already gave a lot of feedback what I think is wrong with GW2. And its not as if many other people have not reported the same things.

If you are really interested, here (haven’t mentioned the story problems in there where your race and class suddenly stops to matter after you join your orders)
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/A-lot-of-cracks-begin-to-show-now/first#post366481

Zambino.3061
More variety of content, more challenge, endgame. I’m not paid to develop videogames and come up with solutions, so it’s up to them to decide on what to do about these problems that are affecting the game’s longevity.

Given that the developers have a finite amount of resources, and as with any business project they would have limits on how long they could wait to start making money, what would you like to have seen less of on the game’s release in order to have more content, challenge and endgame?

I am curious, having only played a couple of other MMOs, one seriously, are there any MMO examples people can mention that at initial release had enough content to satisfy hardcore players for more than a month? For this purpose I define hardcore as anyone playing enough that it would qualify as a full time job, i.e. >30 hours/week.

Kozai.8269:

I am curious, having only played a couple of other MMOs, one seriously, are there any MMO examples people can mention that at initial release had enough content to satisfy hardcore players for more than a month? For this purpose I define hardcore as anyone playing enough that it would qualify as a full time job, i.e. >30 hours/week.

Hardcore players? I am anything but a hardcore player and the content GW2 hat doesn’t satisfy me. But thats because
1. I do not care for a race to legendary items
2. Its not the quantity of the content that is lacking, but the quality.

All activities in a game are essentially a “waste of time”, the only value to them is if you are having fun. There is plenty to do in GW2, but if you don’t find the activities available fun, then it’s probably just not the game for you. It isn’t fair or reasonable to ask the devs to change the style of the game to suit your personal tastes. Find a game that suits you.

Fair enough, but when enough people don’t find the activities in the game fun then they should change the style of the game if they want to keep their job.

Ixal.7924:

Fair enough, but when enough people don’t find the activities in the game fun then they should change the style of the game if they want to keep their job.

Your statement is contingent on people not finding the game’s activities fun. SPvP and WvW are very fun to me and many others. Truth be told, they’re going to lose loads of players no matter how much they change this game. Instead of reworking the way the game works, they need to focus on improving existing content to be more well rounded and polished — without instituting things like gear treadmills.

I mean specifically, they need to fix glaring issues in things like WvW and SPvP, they need to add features that don’t conflict with the overall philosophy of the design (e.g. rank boards to SPvP). That’s the sort of stuff they need to do, and every indication says they are moving in exactly that direction (see latest dev blog about SPvP).

So yeah, they’ll lose players, but it being F2P they’ll get a lot of them back over time, especially once they add new features to supplement existing content.

Arius.7031:

So yeah, they’ll lose players, but it being F2P they’ll get a lot of them back over time, especially once they add new features to supplement existing content.

1. The game is not F2P
2. A lot of future income will (is supposed to) come from expansions. And when only a few people play the original game, not many will buy them.

Ixal.7924:

Fair enough, but when enough people don’t find the activities in the game fun then they should change the style of the game if they want to keep their job.

That’s true, and if it comes to the point where there are more people like you and less like me, they should make the changes. My point is that a minority should not demand changes that will lessen the enjoyment of the majority.

It doesn’t matter how much content a game has if people are playing it for hours and hours on end. That’s just not healthy. No MMO is going to launch with an immense amount of content – learn to pace yourself better and you won’t run out of things to do anytime soon.

“A lot of future income will (is supposed to) come from expansions. And when only a few people play the original game, not many will buy them.”

I doubt that, after years of MMORPG experience, I stopped believing most of the “I left the game weeks ago, will never touch it again, but still post” crowd and even more the “I will never return to a company xx game” people. Recent experiences: D3 “wtf, servers down, never going to play D3”, “wtf, Pandas, never going to touch WoW again”.

Algreg.3629:

“A lot of future income will (is supposed to) come from expansions. And when only a few people play the original game, not many will buy them.”

I doubt that, after years of MMORPG experience, I stopped believing most of the “I left the game weeks ago, will never touch it again, but still post” crowd and even more the “I will never return to a company xx game” people. Recent experiences: D3 “wtf, servers down, never going to play D3”, “wtf, Pandas, never going to touch WoW again”.

And thats why TOR still has a huge playerbase…
When people don’t have fun they will leave. And a lot of people don’t have fun with the GW2 “Endgame”.

Ixal.7924:

Algreg.3629:

“A lot of future income will (is supposed to) come from expansions. And when only a few people play the original game, not many will buy them.”

I doubt that, after years of MMORPG experience, I stopped believing most of the “I left the game weeks ago, will never touch it again, but still post” crowd and even more the “I will never return to a company xx game” people. Recent experiences: D3 “wtf, servers down, never going to play D3”, “wtf, Pandas, never going to touch WoW again”.

And thats why TOR still has a huge playerbase…
When people don’t have fun they will leave. And a lot of people don’t have fun with the GW2 “Endgame”.

or maybe TOR was just too much of a WoW copy so people found the original just was better with years of content on its back.

Ameghan Rose.4683:

Ixal.7924:

Fair enough, but when enough people don’t find the activities in the game fun then they should change the style of the game if they want to keep their job.

That’s true, and if it comes to the point where there are more people like you and less like me, they should make the changes. My point is that a minority should not demand changes that will lessen the enjoyment of the majority.

The thing is, most people that leave a game don’t care to go to forums and voice why they’ve left. People aren’t sticking with GW2 like I thought they and I would have. http://beta.xfire.com/games/gw2

I’m not saying GW2 is a bad game or that it’s going to die. It’s just confusing and worrying that a lot of the community says “maybe this game isn’t for you”. A game should aim to be for everyone, and criticism should be taken into account no matter who the person is. Online games in the past didn’t have a “core audience” that they appealed to. They were just great games that most people could enjoy for years on end.

That said, I’m confident that this game will only get better, and to the point where there’s more content than I could hope for. I just feel like people who say that this is a perfect game in its current state are only disrespecting the professionals that work over at Anet.

Zambino.3061:

Ameghan Rose.4683:

Ixal.7924:

Fair enough, but when enough people don’t find the activities in the game fun then they should change the style of the game if they want to keep their job.

That’s true, and if it comes to the point where there are more people like you and less like me, they should make the changes. My point is that a minority should not demand changes that will lessen the enjoyment of the majority.

The thing is, most people that leave a game don’t care to go to forums and voice why they’ve left. People aren’t sticking with GW2 like I thought they and I would have. http://beta.xfire.com/games/gw2

I’m not saying GW2 is a bad game or that it’s going to die. It’s just confusing and worrying that a lot of the community says “maybe this game isn’t for you”. A game should aim to be for everyone, and criticism should be taken into account no matter who the person is. Online games in the past didn’t have a “core audience” that they appealed to. They were just great games that most people could enjoy for years on end.

That said, I’m confident that this game will only get better, and to the point where there’s more content than I could hope for. I just feel like people who say that this is a perfect game in its current state are only disrespecting the professionals that work over at Anet.

you are right of cause, though pratically you cannot satisfy everyone. Anyway, what bugs me aren´t constructive posts like “maybe it would be a good idea to add this or change that” which are totally in the minority, but the whole “this game sucks in everything, wtf, it will fail, 10 people of my guild already left, change what I want or I will leave too, well, I already left, but still post here every 10 minutes how much you suck”. Also, this game is barely out a MONTH, let it develop a bit. I am far from saying everything is totally perfect, but this forum is really a cesspool of hatred against everything anet does, so excuse the people who enjoy the game despite its obvious shortcomings really getting fed up with all the bile from time to time.

Ixal.7924:

Arius.7031:

So yeah, they’ll lose players, but it being F2P they’ll get a lot of them back over time, especially once they add new features to supplement existing content.

1. The game is not F2P
2. A lot of future income will (is supposed to) come from expansions. And when only a few people play the original game, not many will buy them.

1. This game is free to play as far as subscriptions go. You know your point here is pure semantics — because you did not address my original point. People can still come back and play at any time — that means that game has a good chance of regaining players it has lost compared to P2P MMOs.
2. I challenge this on three points:

A) You’d have to demonstrate that “only a few people” will be playing the original game. I’d suggest, that a very large number of people will be playing the original game. As much as WoW? Certainly not. It may not be a massive amount, but we’re talking about the game being healthy. A game doesn’t need overpopulation to be healthy.

B) As my previous post pointed out, I suspect (given the available evidence) that once the existing content is polished and the bells and whistles are added in, the population will stabilize and start growing again. More than that, players who quit (a lot of em at least) I bet will return and check out how the base game has evolved, and if they like it purchase the expansion.

C) Revenue from expansions is great, but it’s nothing compared to the steady stream that a F2P MMO brings in from cash shop. Seriously, F2P MMO games as of late have been making massive amounts of cash for those who swap to them (LOTRO for example). Expansions are awesome, but they just give a huge boost to the cash brought in — the main cash comes from buying gems and such. So expansions themselves aren’t necessary for a game to stay healthy in the long run.

Definitely.

PvE: 33 different dungeon quests, 12+ raid bosses, DEs, craft, etc
WvW: a million of players alone are prolly playing just for this
sPvP: with the new content update I’d say we’re getting there

Still a bit mad that not all blizzboys yet moved back to wow, I still see some around here making wow comparisons (comparing audi a3 with ’94 ford escort yay) and demanding wow features.
Hopefully the next month will clear them out.

All I have to say that since I started playing Guild Wars 2 it has never yet failed to amaze, delight and surprise me. I have four characters all under level 20 (17, 2,19, 8 and a level 23). I have at most with one toon 11% map completion and considering the massive amount of de’s, hearts, vista discovery’s etc I have done and haven’t really even scratched the surface of the zones i have quested in I would say on a personal level it has an insane amount of content that is going to keep me very, very busy for many months to come. Because you see, unlike the other game, there is a inordinate amount of fun and surprises in store for you if you actually play the game as intended, that is quest in and explore each zone to completion. then move to the next etc etc. also the fun replayability when you take a race to a diff start zone. This game is not “ignore the the bulk of the game in a rush to cap so you can raid”. This is an actual game you play while you get to cap. I really could go on for hours about the cool de’s i stumbled upon I didnt even know were there when i went through with another toon. The point i am making (i think) is this game is not for the WoW crowd and thats fine with me so i think the WoW crowd should respect those of us who play this game and not point out to us how different WoW is or better it is than this, when they are both totally different games. I played WoW for five years as did my wife, just got bored and sick of playing until I stumbled on this. We thought we were WoW addicts (and we were lol) but this game has given us a new, deadlier and free addiction (mostly). As for those who say “there is no content” I counter :- are you sure we are playing the same game??

If you’ve run out of content, it is likely only because you’re playing it wrong and actually have not run out of content, you just think you have:

“GW2 – Slowing down can change the game completely”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTF9T4oQ480

- Watch the video, and see how you have likely missed 90% of the game by doing the “typical other MMO player’s path” of 100% map, and zerg grinding gear for the non existent raid.

The current endgame for PVE sucks… I would gladly pay a subscription if they added actual progression after hitting lvl80.

They need to add more extensive equipment upgrading (like adding more base stats, and adding more rune/sigil slots). They also need to add more top notch gear for people to work towards. Unfortunately I see that running into a problem since they can’t make gear that’s stronger than legendary weapons (yet)… They would add legendary armor I guess.. And a higher tier than exotic thats slightly stronger, but still weaker than legendary.

‘’WoW has a subscription model that forces people into continuing to pay in order to be able to access the new content (gated dailies, etc). GW2 doesn’t have that subscription model, so the content argument is like comparing apples to oranges. GW2 is about having fun while you’re playing, WoW is about stringing your subscription along as long as humanly possible.’’

No it doesn’t because you can stop your sub any time you want. I payed for a month of game time and only played 2 weeks that’s my choice I don’t feel like I need to milk my 15 bucks worth every month.

@adic I’m done with your rose tinted glasses arguments you obviously are enlightened and have a higher sense of things.

Fact is the PvE isn’t challenging and doesn’t have no strategy involved in boss fights. The game is a karma grind instead of a gear grind.

Champions mobs are pointless to kill due to the loot table.

World bosses spawn to quickly and is a zerg fest from 1 dragon to the next.

WvW is a zerg fest with rendering issues

Spvp is a zerg fest

and Tpvp is all about thieves/mesmers and guardians.

none of that is including bugs/broken events/skill points/bots/exploiters/class balance and poor customer support.

The game is a month old but they need to make some big moves to keep/attract players to bring in more money.

Personally, I don’t think GW2 does have the broadly understoon “content” to keep a large player base.

Main reason for me is that desperately lacks goals for non-hardcore players to achieve.
After you’re done with leveling (which includes personal story) and world completion (which is entertaining on itself once, but on alts – not so much), the premise of non-grindy fun game is suddently gone.

What else is ANet offering to players and advertising in their blog posts and other press releases?
Recently dungeons and legendary weapons, neither of which is really within the hand’s reach of non-hardcore players.

Legendary weapons are self explanatory, but the dungeons part is actually pretty sad.
It’s not even about difficulty/challenge, but the grind required to achieve a goal related with dungeons (armour / weapon sets).
Boring/frustrating dungeons mechanics aside, no content design will be “fun” anymore if run 100x times. It simply gets annoying.

Many players acquired this game because they were promised fun content, engaging dungeons and grind known from competitors’ games limited.
But the “fine print” is that fun content and no grind ends very quickly, and dungeons are for “selected few” who find outdated mechanics punishing experimentation and ridiculous reward system enjoyful. And the legendary items, pinnacle of latest PR, is something most of the players base will never hold in their hands, that’s how much grind it requires.

Personally, I can’t find a goal worth working for anymore, or one I can complete within 6 months (and no partial rewards worth mentioning in between either). And without a goal, I don’t see a reason to keep on playing, It’s actually sad since I’ve waited for this game for 6 years. And annoying as I’ve spent around 200EUR on it (copy for me and my boyfriend plus some gems), not mentioning new RAM blocks since GW2 is designed in a way that will absolutely not run on 12GB RAm with 2 damaged sectors (just ranting here, ignore this last part ).

Unfortunately not. I and two of my friends all quit within one week after hitting 80.

wookie slayer.4259:

Right now lots of people are still happy with the game but the ones who “rushed” through it feel like there is nothing to do. I’m worried for the games numbers when the majority hit that “what now stage?”

Which is another way of saying that for many people, Anet’s idea of endgame is not working.

I think, in my opinion that GW2 has 2 major issues:

- Structure of the Personal Storyline
- Rewards after lvl 80

In GW1 we had Missions which required a 4-8 party to reach completion (either humans or henchmens, whatever). We had markers on the map which indicated in what Missions we performed well enough or completed secondary objectives to master it. In here we only follow each instance of story to it’s completion, alone OR in a party. No secondary objectives, nada!

Maybe ANet should create secondary objectives on it, or just create something alongside the Missions in GW1. Less time consuming and hard than dungeons, but that would require a party unlike the Personal Storyline. These Missions would include…maybe bits of lore!

Also, the only flaw I get from people that reached lvl 80 is the rewards. Seems like Orr is the only place that satisfies their needs on that regards. Maybe raising up the Exp and Gold gained in every area of the World Map so that people would have incentive to gather in other areas other than Orr.

This thread could be posted in ANY MMO game forum. Bottom line is that there are things to do once you hit 80, it’s simply a matter of if you wish to do them. I’m really doubtful there are people out there that have nothing left to do once they hit level 80. What’s even more juicy … why does everyone expect a new MMO to drown you in end game content? That doesn’t even make sense. It might not be the trend but new MMO’s may want to think about developing low and midrange level content to encourage replay value.

@ryth

Community kept that game going more than anything else. I have heard too many people say they play wow because of friends they made in guilds. Over and over again people say, If it wasnt for the guild i would have stopped playing long ago.

I can say without a doubt that im enjoying this game much more because of the people i play with; who, for the most part, are not the same people i played with in wow.

In the end community can keep people playing much longer, but there needs to be things that bring people together.

Chackan.2813:

I think, in my opinion that GW2 has 2 major issues:

- Structure of the Personal Storyline
- Rewards after lvl 80

In GW1 we had Missions which required a 4-8 party to reach completion (either humans or henchmens, whatever). We had markers on the map which indicated in what Missions we performed well enough or completed secondary objectives to master it. In here we only follow each instance of story to it’s completion, alone OR in a party. No secondary objectives, nada!

Maybe ANet should create secondary objectives on it, or just create something alongside the Missions in GW1. Less time consuming and hard than dungeons, but that would require a party unlike the Personal Storyline. These Missions would include…maybe bits of lore!

Also, the only flaw I get from people that reached lvl 80 is the rewards. Seems like Orr is the only place that satisfies their needs on that regards. Maybe raising up the Exp and Gold gained in every area of the World Map so that people would have incentive to gather in other areas other than Orr.

the fun thing is that GW1 did not have any more “endgame” content than this game, the superhard domains weren´t there for quite a while after start, progression stopped rather early, and so on. If it would be released today people would complain about the exactly same things they do now +the game being insanely hard in DoA, FoW and UW – and where is my obisidian armor after 3 weeks of playing for kittenssake. Probably best to ignore game forums these days.

Obtena.7952:

This thread could be posted in ANY MMO game forum. Bottom line is that there are things to do once you hit 80, it’s simply a matter of if you wish to do them. I’m really doubtful there are people out there that have nothing left to do once they hit level 80. What’s even more juicy … why does everyone expect a new MMO to drown you in end game content? That doesn’t even make sense. It might not be the trend but new MMO’s may want to think about developing low and midrange level content to encourage replay value.

Your understanding of “content” is pretty narrow.
For example, goals to achieve are also content. But this is exactly where GW2 lacks so severly many people are on the verge of quiting: there are very few short term goals in GW2. The ones Developers seem to focus at the moment are Dungeons and their rewards plus Legendary weapons, both long term goals.
But for most players to strive for long term goals, they need to have short term goals to keep them goin.

When I started playing GW2 and learned about Legendaries, I thought it will be something i will work gradually towards for the next few years that I’ll be playing the game. But with nothing interesting in sight to occupy me, I don’t see myself playing for a few years.
It doesn’t matter how many zones or dungeons a game has, players will play through them in a rate much, much faster than developers can deliver (definietly in quality). Goals is what keeps players in game by adding re-play value or incentive, but when all goals are forbidding, grindy, repetative, there’s just no reason to keep going.

If you’re among the people who do find goals in GW2 worth going for, I envy you.
I waited for this game for years and I really wanted to like it (I loved it at the start) and to keep on playing it for the forseeable future. But there is just no reason for me to play, no goal I believe I can achieve in an acceptable time frame that would actually satisfy me.

I don’t care for all the Slayers, Weapon Masters and what not. I planned on having a character of each race and each profession and customising them to reflect their back story, armour and weapon wise. Given the price of race, dungeon and karma weapons and sets, this is definietly not a goal i can forsee myself going for on even a single alt. And hence I don’t even feel like playing any of the alts. As a matter of fact, I am not tempted to go for those sets even on my main (though truth be told I planned a regular skins from 40 range for her because I like the look a lot).

Again, if you see short- or long-term goals in GW2 that can keep you going, I envy you.
I’m not even done with my first goal of 100% world completion as I decided to take it slow and enjoy, but looking at the state of the game right now I don’t even feel like finishing that anymore.

Algreg.3629:

the fun thing is that GW1 did not have any more “endgame” content than this game, the superhard domains weren´t there for quite a while after start, progression stopped rather early, and so on. If it would be released today people would complain about the exactly same things they do now +the game being insanely hard in DoA, FoW and UW – and where is my obisidian armor after 3 weeks of playing for kittenssake. Probably best to ignore game forums these days.

First of all, GW1 was released ages ago. Times have changed since then, industry did as well. Players have different expectations. Look at D3 for example. Or Duke Nukem: this was such a hit back in it’s day, but a huge fail when teh sequel was released with little changes to the main idea recently. A succesful model from almost a decade ago does not guarantee success and the mechanics should not simply be copied, they need to be matched to what your playerbase will enjoy now, not what they found fun years ago.

Secondly, GW1 was a PvP oriented game, and heavily so. PvE was treated as a side dish for a long, long time after release.

Thirdly, it still had a lot of short-term goals to keep you going (unlocking skills, PvP equipment). And if you wanted Obsidian Armour or a Crystaline sword, you didn’t have to farm UW or FoW or Shiverpeaks only, you could have done anything you enjoyed and eventually save to purchase your goal. GW2 lacks that opportunity.

its insane to be able to reach max lvl in a few days!
lvl-ing should be harder and harder as u lvl-up. 79 to 80 shoud take 1 month in normal style and 1 week in hardcore mode. at least!
we enjoy the view,but we dont have time to enjoy the trip.