Guild Wars 2

I am posting this in the general discussion section because no matter what any over zealous forum moderators may say, this is critical to the entire game of guild wars 2, especially the future and amount of playerbase. If I post in the SPVP section or get moved there, its like I am being quarantined to the same part of the forums that people like me and other SPVP enthusiastic people already know and already saying themselfs, and it’ll be preaching to the choir. I want all GW2 Players and moderators to know these problems.

This is on front page of reddit and is very true, and threads like that have been making front page every day, please take a second out of your time to read the comments and support for this thread

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/15a54k/do_people_care_about_pvp_anymore/
^ link
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Why is this so important? Because more and more people are quitting the game, the majority of pure spvp players have already left or on wits end. And now people who have gotten to where they want to be goal wise in PVE, and people who want a change from the normal old PVE and WvW are also quitting because there is no SPVP to fall back on.
Trust me will happen to all of u, i have 1000 hours played, legendaries, etc, you WILL get to the point where ur tired of PVE and want to focus PVP, it happens in every MMO. But theres no fun SPVP in this game or support for it, so how long will PVE be able to hold everyones interest before people, dedicated players like me, just get bored and stop playing.

This is more of an important issue than the dev’s give it credit for, we need more support and help for spvp. Please just look at the link and the comments of other players in it. This is huge feedback for developers to see whats wrong with the neglected stepchild that is spvp. Every MMO needs strong pvp to keep the game alive, PVE will not do it forever. I came to this game back in august because I thought arena net knew this.

Rubbers.5261:

…Trust me will happen to all of u, i have 1000 hours played, legendaries, etc, you WILL get to the point where ur tired of PVE and want to focus PVP, it happens in every MMO.

Thats why we got WvW, and i will properly keep playing for months if not years because of that. Spvp becomes stale really fast, WvW is still fantastic fun.

EDIT:
Yes, i do agree that they need to do something to SPvP, i normally like/love battlegrounds/group vs group PvP but SPvP/Conquest(game modes) just bores me to tears. Personally i perfer group vs group fighting, not my entire team spread out fighting alone or in 2/3ies.

people will get bored of PVE which im sure most are thats why they go to WvW. Will that large group fighting (30+ people in zergs) be enough to hold people with ever fluctuating server populations? I guess we will see, hopefully the game stops bleeding large amounts of active players

What I do find interesting is have you ever thought why people play WvW instead? Be honest now, cuz I am the same why, could it be because like to use the gear you’ve earned both stats wise and looks wise to beat others in PVP? Amazing, it almost seems like what most mmo players said they wanted the least, (a gear grind in pvp where gear is just as important as skill), is secretly actually what mmo players DO want, they prove it when they would rather play WvW than PVP if they do it because of rewards/thier gear. I know I would rather play WvW sometimes because I want to use the gear i worked so hard for or the look/legendary i worked so hard for in pvp and not go to spvp where none of it matters. I honestly feel most players feel the same way, amazing how this “anti gear-grind” thoery that GW2 imposed seems to be failure. In Gw2 PVP they dont go by the normal carrot-on-a-stick methodology, its just a stick, and it seems to not be working.

I’m just not fond of Capture the Point PvP. I don’t even play them in Team Fortress 2. Need more match types in SPvP badly. Didn’t play JQ much in GW1 either. Was all FA.

Indeed, PvP in GW2 is just so unloved. It has so many issues. I played to rank 28 before getting bored out of my mind. I can play a specc for every class farley well and I also played some tournaments. Speaking of tournaments, I just couldn’t stop asking myself what the kitten this is. Why is there no elo system? Why tournaments? I don’t get the thinking behind this feature. Why did they think that a tournament system would be better than an elo system? What did they try to archive with it? Why did they waste resources on them when sPvP itself is clearly lacking? Another Gabe Antamagelo working here? (Probably too direct but I just love(d?) GW2 and it makes me sad seeing in the state it is in ).

Just some stuff I think need to be fixed:

1. Content. There has to be an elo system and a REAL duel function asap.

2. 45 euros too much today to be an esports-game. There has to be a much much cheaper way to play sPvP. Make a version for sPvP only for 10 bucks? GW2 PvP will never be taken seriously with the high cost of the entry level.

3. Class balance. The balance in sPvP is kinda okay, every class has a strong specc. There are some OP and UP classes, like Warriors seems kinda underpowered and D/D-ele overpowered, the rest of the classes seem to be some sort of okay.

4. Ability designs. Some weaponsets make absolutely no sense as thief and are just incredible badly designed. Some abilities (like death blossom, heartseeker strike or hundred blades) are just bad, cheesy, boring and maybe even overpowered and should be reworked.

5. Missing stats (Knight…).

6. Awful glory system.

7. Heavily unbalanced downed states. Be an engi or warrior and get stomped instantly. Be a thief, mesmer or elementalist and get rezzed.

8. Only conquest, oh god why.

And yes, many many people have quit the PvP in this game and (probaly) the playerbase consist mostly of PvE-players now. You can’t except a part of the game to be a healthy and alive if it’s this bad.

Right now it seems that GW2 is just another PvE-mmo.

EDIT: I’m not only talking about sPvP. WvWvW is just as lacky.

I don’t like sPvP because it’s an entirely different animal than the actual game! I worked so hard for my looks and none of it matters in sPvP.

They designed the game to be team oriented so balance is gonna be focus on team comps not 1 v 1’s which imo the game is actually more solo orientated..

Above post nailed it. Kinda disagree on the cost thing though, full priced games can take off as e-sports if the content is worth it.

Thing is about this game, is its designed from the ground up as a PvE game, SPvP is abysmally boring to the majority of the players and WvW was only designed as a side activity, not the main endgame.

Trying to market a PvE game as esports material = lol.

Devs probably realized that as much as people want PvP on the forums, the reality is that PvP brings in hardly any subs (or sales). PvE is where the money’s at.

SPvP sucks no matter what because there’s no progression or variety so it’s completely uninteresting for any but the elite 0.05% who want to climb some ladder and claim they are #1. About all they could do to make it interesting imo is add some kind of personal rating that you could improve even in hot joins…but then you know people would find some way to disconnect and salvage their rating when they are losing even though it has nothing but personal meaning.

I don’t like to use this argument often but I think it legitimately applies here and isn’t just something to try to pacify people or blow off their complaints: The game hasn’t even been out six months.

If the OP, and many other people in his situation have been putting in 166+ hours a month, for six consecutive months, then you are probably burnt out. You might need to take a break.

From before day 1 the designers have said they want to introduce new maps, they want to introduce new modes, but need to see how the classes and systems are working out first and that the most effective mode for data collection was the conquest style.

It’s not as if all of the classes and tournaments and lobbies were working flawlessly right out of the gate so they could just crunch some numbers and then get to work on Quaggan-ball.

New modes require a good deal of adding functionality to the engine. Not to mention if all of the existing maps won’t work, then new ones need to be created.

I am positive you will see more PvP improvements. But as with everything else in game development, things take time. Actual, real time. Not “I put in 900-100 hours or in six months and need something new or me and my lot will quit playing this game that we can always come back to for free, so I don’t understand why I don’t have it now” time.

As a pve/wvw player I tried to spvp a few times. It was fun for a bit but stopped doing it after reaching rank 5 or 6. To put my reason simply as an engineer the down state annoys me watching everyclass have it better than me. The down state shouldnt be in spvp that would be more enjoyable than it is right now imo. Second reason is…how exactly does spvp benefit my pve character? :/

I’m still rather new to GW2, but I gave sPvP a shot. I sank ridiculous amounts of hours into battlegrounds in WoW and WAR so I should be right at home in the sPvP here, right? Well…not so much. For one, it’s very strange to have an entire mode where nothing I’ve done on my character matters. I can’t do sPvP to level my character and I gain nothing in return for when I leave the matches. Conversely, the time I spend in PvE does nothing to help me with the PvP aspect.

In short, there’s just no real satisfaction to the system. Nothing I do seems to really have any real benefit to me in the grand scheme of the game. At least in WvW(when I upgrade my processor and my computer can better handle it), I can progress my characters and level up. If sPvP gave me that option, I’d probably do a ton of it just to take a break from questing/exploring/crafting.

IMO the only problem with Spvp is lack of verity. Game types control and options for groups to enter none ternament fights

Yaki.9563:

Devs probably realized that as much as people want PvP on the forums, the reality is that PvP brings in hardly any subs (or sales). PvE is where the money’s at.

SPvP sucks no matter what because there’s no progression or variety so it’s completely uninteresting for any but the elite 0.05% who want to climb some ladder and claim they are #1. About all they could do to make it interesting imo is add some kind of personal rating that you could improve even in hot joins…but then you know people would find some way to disconnect and salvage their rating when they are losing even though it has nothing but personal meaning.

There’s plenty of money in PvP MMO’s, when people do a really bad job at it though you are right, nobody is going to want to play it.

i care about pvp

It was especially bad to be not-ready at launch for pvp because there was no time cushion of people leveling to 80.

It’s still not at all ready for esport, and most everyone went back to LoL, SC2, etc a while ago.

I recently did a google for spvp stuff. Most of it was pre-launch. Nothing on the first 3 pages was newer than mid-October. Gamebreaker gave up on their show, so many who were posting builds and videos gave up… Just a few stalwarts remain.

It’s a shame. Maybe someday there’ll be good esport in mmo-style game. I still feel like no developer has given it a chance to succeed yet.

Never cared in the first place.

Had I wanted a PvP game, I wouldn’t have bought and played GW2.

Teabaker.9524:

3. Class balance. The balance in sPvP is kinda okay, every class has a strong specc. There are some OP and UP classes, like Warriors seems kinda underpowered and D/D-ele overpowered, the rest of the classes seem to be some sort of okay.

Warriors seems kinda underpowered

Never thought I’d see the day.

There’s not enough incentive for me to hop into SPvP, I mean it’s a completely separate game. If it had some influence on the “real” part of the game (by real I mean PvE, which makes up 90% of the games content) I’d probably do it fairly often. Otherwise I stick to WvW, where I can get exp for my alts, along with karma and gold; I really couldn’t care less for SPvP skins.

There needs to be some kind of reward like ZKeys from GW1 added, then you’ll see a lot more players jumping in I’m sure.

I bought this game especially for the PvP aspect , after playing 1k tournaments winning alot of paids , building my sets , I have come to the conclusion the pvp is very stale. Also the “gather up 5 active people on a daily basis and getting them on team speak” was a hard enough deal.

The PvP maps and layouts are way too small , every 2v1 , 3v1 fights behind the corner in pugs became just a little zerg running to gun you down no thank you skillerz. I stopped pvping at glory rank 35.

WvW is the way to go for decent PvP.

i think ive played 1 game of sPvP. I like to pvp and WvW is the only one i do. mainly because theres no rating, you dont get cool looking gear, and none of your looks transfer over to the rest. Feels like a sub-game within the game and i generally never play mini-games in any game. if there was unique gear i could bring to wvw/world, or titles or something cool then i would do it.

I hope the Dev’s really take a look at this thread and the reddit thread and see our feedback, I really really do, things need to be changed quickly we’ve waited long enough and never hear much back from real dev’s. I don’t want this MMO to fall like SWTOR and so many others have where they have to shut down 3/4’s of the servers cuz of no players.

The majority of responses on this thread on the official forums is alot different than the replys on the reddit forums. There is alot to be seen in the comments. This one is mostly the strict segregation of SPVP from the rest of the game, which I greatly agree is not good for spvp and what i’d like to throw in with this is why can i have a certain lay out of stats in PVE/WVW but in SPVP my stats and build diversity is severly limited by 90% of my stats coming from one peice, the amulet, which is only about 5 of them viable and very restricting to any type of diverse or differently weighed stats.

But the reddit link OP (me) posted shows alot more diverse feedback. I hope this gets more attention.

I guess I’m in the minority yet again by liking the fact that sPvP is separate from PvE?

It keeps the community separate. I don’t need those NEED-MORE-PHAT-LOOTZ people playing with me. My gripe with sPVP is I hate capture the point. Commander battles and JQ both failed in GW1, what is Anet thinking?

They need to add some new modes… Assault/defend like the old fort aspenwood and escort Jade quarry and a classic capture the flag mode would add a ton of potential for the pvp for me…. They need to have multiple types of modes and not just tournament pvp and capture the point….

Anyone else agree ?

there are 2 things they can do that would make me play spvp alot more.

1. make diffrent game modes, i hate conquest

2. let me gain exp on my alts to level, i am a pvp player and i want to level in pvp. (WvW does not count becaus a lvl 80 can take on 3 – 4 non 80’s whit ease and the leveling in pve is atleast 2x as fast)

Rubbers.5261:

What I do find interesting is have you ever thought why people play WvW instead? Be honest now, cuz I am the same why, could it be because like to use the gear you’ve earned both stats wise and looks wise to beat others in PVP? Amazing, it almost seems like what most mmo players said they wanted the least, (a gear grind in pvp where gear is just as important as skill), is secretly actually what mmo players DO want, they prove it when they would rather play WvW than PVP if they do it because of rewards/thier gear. I know I would rather play WvW sometimes because I want to use the gear i worked so hard for or the look/legendary i worked so hard for in pvp and not go to spvp where none of it matters. I honestly feel most players feel the same way, amazing how this “anti gear-grind” thoery that GW2 imposed seems to be failure. In Gw2 PVP they dont go by the normal carrot-on-a-stick methodology, its just a stick, and it seems to not be working.

Only if you like to come out with theories based on no actual data or evidence… This may come as a shock, but lots of people who play WvW simply like that playstyle and played games like DAoC, it also might come as a shock, but many of the people who used to stream sPvP and stopped, did not go to WvW, they went to other games like LoL or DOTA 2.

The sPvP is simply not that appealing in this game, lots of people do not want to have to be in a team to compete without being facerolled, teams don’t want to play against pugs that are just faceroll, the casual “fun” sPvP is simply bad, zerging about a map is not fun.

I played thousands of warfronts in Rift (the equivalent of sPvP), in theory I should be in their sPvP demogrpahic, but I’ve barely played it since about the first three weeks.

It’s a bit sad because GW1 PvP was so good. Probably the best MMO-style pvp I ever played.

GW2 isn’t bad, but it’s pretty far from the quality of GW1.
Nonetheless, it has a lot of room for improvement and it could one day also be a great PVP…. the thing is, ANet is not making me hopeful that this will ever happen. They don’t seem to address issues that need addressing, and they seem a bit afraid to make drastic changes that, perhaps, the system might need.

And people complaining that SPVP doesn’t use your PvE gear is completely missing the point of Guild Wars.

GW2 pvp in general is so horrible nothing will fix it at this point other than a complete rework. I imagined pvp without healers once, and my fears were true. It becomes nothing but mindless zerg with people 1 shotting each other, absolutely ZERO strategy involved.

And dodge is just a horrible mechanic in pvp. I never liked it when it was passive in other MMO’s, and I don’t like it when it’s active in GW2. People should not be able to just loldodge whatever you throw at them. Block is another TERRIBLE mechanic. I mean really, how long it lasts in this game is just silly with a 100% block chance, wow…. clearly they put some thought into pvp.

Then again without any true healer I guess that’s all you have to prevent all the instagibs in the game. In GW1 if I were on a monk and he used shield bash if I was on my game I could stop my attack, prevent the KD and 20s disable on my skill and I wouldn’t be hit with some kitten “cancel cooldown”.

But I see no active way to counter dodge other than making them waste it and some silly builds let them have near infinite dodge. E-sports lol rofl there isn’t even resource management in the game, it’s designed by noobs for noobs.

I have zero interest in pvp, the only reason I go into wvw is for the stupid badges of honor

I never do any sort of pvp, ever.

The decision to limit pvp to capture-point style only makes sense if they’re attaining esport status. But the game’s still not ready for serious play and probably has irrevocably lost whatever esport interest it used to have.

The maps aren’t all exactly the same, but might as well be. We only use 3 of them for tournaments, anyway. Adding in ToSS just for hot-join did nothing to help pvp, what a waste of resources. The spvp team at ArenaNet seems confused and disjointed about its goals.

Is pvp supposed to be for people who actively engage other parts of GW2? If so, why isn’t there any connection?
Is it an esport? If so, get with it — it’s still not ready for launch.

Holiday pvp — what’s the point? If it’s meant to pull people into spvp, why aren’t these connected — get glory and skins for spvp, have snowball and day of the dead tournaments, something… Putting this content out (ToSS, MadKing, Wintersday) shows me they’ve already given up on spvp in anything more than a diversion.

Rubbers.5261:

Trust me will happen to all of u, i have 1000 hours played, legendaries, etc, you WILL get to the point where ur tired of PVE and want to focus PVP, it happens in every MMO.

I think I found the problem here.
The game came out end of August. So there have been 4 months. Thats 2880 total hours. So yes if you play PvP 12 hours a day everyday as you are claiming then yes it gets boring.

Personally I find it rather sluggish, annoying and tedious. Unless I’m under a speed buff and not being attacked by anything, it usually feels like my character is trying to run through cement. This is tru in PvE also, of course, but it is infinitely more frustrating in a more stressful situation such as PvP.

Probably my mediocre internet doesn’t help, but the skills are also too slow, either actual cast times, general lag, the time it can take to go from one to another, and the long cooldowns. The downed state is just horrifically sluggy, trying to select the right target to knock down, and it being so slow and laggy, killing you.

I think PvP is a good place to really learn your chacter inside out, and train your reaction times, but I just find it a bit too annoying to bother with.

The day they add a pvp that is EXACTLY like fort aspenwood in gw1 is the day i will care about spvp. Also, i want to bring my pve gear not some ugly trash i’m given in spvp. In gw1’s FA you could make a pvp character that gets access to max gear/level or bring your pve character with all its gear. That is what i want, not ugly unrewarding crap spvp gives you. By playing FA you could sell zkeys/amber to make money, in spvp you can’t do ****. No thanks!

Jairlyn.1429:

I think I found the problem here.
The game came out end of August. So there have been 4 months. Thats 2880 total hours. So yes if you play PvP 12 hours a day everyday as you are claiming then yes it gets boring.

Didnt I just say I had 1000 hours played? Lol wheres this random number you come up with to try to insult someone. Anyway, plenty of people have 1000 hours played by now, the games been out 5 months. Go away if you have nothing meaningful to add.

Yaki.9563:

Devs probably realized that as much as people want PvP on the forums, the reality is that PvP brings in hardly any subs (or sales). PvE is where the money’s at.

You couldn’t be more wrong. WoW was a game with a very large focus on PvE and even there 40% of the population played Battlegrounds regularly and 20% played Arena regularly. Those numbers came direct from Blizzard by the way. Let’s not forget that in classic WoW they also said less than 10% of the population participated in raid content. People participating in end game PvE only increased the more they dumbed it down, which in turn made the hardcores angry.

Nope. Got bored with it SO FAST. Here are some of my gripes:

-Only one kind of game mode
-Forced into one style of play, since the statistics are all based on an AMULET (I prefer my customized Guardian stats in WvW) – this ends up limiting different spec and stat options
-Huge zergfests, should be max 5vs5 even in quickjoin/pub games

I played it constantly when gw2 was first released,ranked up to about 22 pretty fast,then stopped.Now im 24 i guess but im not bothering anymore,it just doesn’t interest me at all,no fulfilling rewards on top of it,it feels and is very repetitive and becomes a bore after 2 or so rounds already.The pvp in wvwv is a diff story,i like it alot,even the big zerging,just wish the rendering issue would be resolved already,its a huge pain at times.

No GvG. No real ranking system. No GvG. No spectator modes. No GvG. Stale meta. No GvG.

This isn’t Guild Wars PvP at all. Disappointing, because back in the day, Guild Wars had the best PvP around.

I can’t fathom why they dropped that ball so hard.

Edit: It would be REALLY nice if someone from ArenaNet would come on here and explain what their vision for sPvP is. If they can get their act together, maybe someday they’ll attract the sPvP crowd back. I, for one, would love to know what they intend (just a broad-brush big picture would be fine) and about how long they think it’ll take to get it there.

People obviously do care about sPvP because the amount of crap guardians/warriors that got schooled by mesmers led to the class nerf.

sPvP is not very fun. Too much burst, CC, and no proper goals.