Guild Wars 2

Don’t get me wrong, I kindda enjoyed HoT. I understand it is a controversial expansion but all in all I was satisfied with it. Nevertheless, one thing that not only broke the expansion but a part of the game for me was the annoying mastery system. I loved that I could progress further past level 80, until I realized earning mastery points is attached to achievements. While there are cool achievements to complete, many are absolutely boring and I would never entertain the thought of going after them. In the end I felt like there was no progression at all. After completing the achievements I enjoyed, there was nothing more to do besides doing stuff I don’t like to get 1 out of 10 points I’d need for a mastery skill. I ended up kindda regretting getting the DLC because before at least, whenever I got a level, I would get a skill point (which would just stay there and be useless) that despite nor being usable still gave me a bigger sense of progression than the mastery system. Now I hear that mounts are also tied to masteries… And apparently there will be no further progression, so if I got the expansion, i would still be stuck with feeling stagnated in time with my char. This discourages me to even get the new expansion. Does anyone also feel like that or is it just me?

Yes, I love the mastery system!

Earning the experience is a great way to continue leveling without the power creep and new gear that levels above 80 would require. I understand your frustration with masteries requiring points to unlock, but while every point is attached to an achievement, some of those achievements are as mundane as ‘find and open this hidden chest’ or ‘channel this place of power’.

At the release of HoT, I did wish that less points were gained from adventures. I friggin’ hate timed content, and that’s all adventures are. Racing against the clock. Since then though, a lot of points have been available from LS3 maps, and they even added some places of power to core Tyria.

Don’t be discouraged. I have no doubts that there will be enough flat-out easy mastery points in PoF that you will have no difficulty leveling up your raptor skills, and certainly more when LS4 comes around a couple of months later.

I do hope there’s no more mastery lines locked behind killing a raid boss though. I need a long break from them and I’d like to be able to keep getting spirit shards.

It is a perfect progression system as opposed to having additional lvls for characters (80-90) or having a gear treadmill. There needs to be a progression system for people to have long term goals and this is really ez as u get exp just by playing and exploring the maps instead if pure grind and it doesnt invalidate previous content by inflating toons with additional levels and more gear stats.

Even if it is artificial there should be delay on how quickly u progress so people dont rush the whole expac in a week and burn out. It also allows people to take it ez and get the masteries on their own pace instead of making it feel like a race.

The only way u can get a “bigger” sense of progression is by unlocking the new elite-specs and learning to use them.

Apart from that there would need to be additional lvls or a next tier of gear to inflate stats and make u OP in any content besides the new expansion which is a huge no-no.

Not a huge fan of it myself. Specially when HoT came out since it was info overload plus doing achievements that are really hard or expensive yet you have to do them cuz there just isnt enough points is a pain. But with that said, im currently working on a 3rd account for mastery (just the basic ones) And now it feels less of a grind since i have a decent order to get them in, and just how far i really need to progress for HoT story which really isn’t that too far into them. I don’t mind it as much now, still annoying and grindy but now that we have HoT pluse LWS3 maps to work on them not so boring and tedious compares when we just had HoT

I fully expect with PoF they won’t be so boring either and will be faster to get then HoT ones were.

What I hate about the mastery system is having to buy all of the skills in a line instead of getting to level each skill separately. I hate wasting mastery points I’ve worked hard to get on skills I don’t need in order to get a skill I will use.

I see the mastery system as flawed. It could be greatly improved with three changes.

First: Lower the cost in mastery points for the masteries. The LS3 Mastery line was a step in the right direction, with much lower costs than most of the ones that came with HoT.

Second: Masteries should be useful beyond one thing. For an example of what I mean, look at the Exalted Mastery line. How much of that was of actual use beyond that one zone? And why would we need to know how to read Exalted to enter the city, when they REALLY wanted us to enter the city? That whole line could have been done without. A smaller example is the Flame of Koda, and how it’s used in only one zone.

Finally: There should be a Mastery line you can repeat, and each time you fill the bar, you get a Mastery point. Make it fill at the speed of a level 2 or level 3 Mastery. That way finding ways to unlock points will always be faster, but there’s another path for those that don’t want to or can’t do what those points require. Full mastery bars may be a long term goal, but nobody will ever hit a point where they no longer advance.

I like it well enough. I didn’t much care for how we got Masteries points.

Hero points, the char progression up to level 80 had sufficient Hero points given to you for leveling to 80 to max out non elite specs and far more points than needed available through doing easy content on a map to get elite specs. Masteries, the char progression after 80, had none given to you for leveling even basic Masteries and the available ones ranged from Hero point easy to Masteries requiring multiple tries, low ping &/or other people. It’s very uneven in what is required. And then there’s the scaling in numbers needed to reach the last levels of a Mastery, which may not even get you anything worth having, other than the “thrill” of finishing a Mastery line.

What I would like is all Masteries to be meaningful, even if only map specific meaningful (although I would like to see them carried over to the next new map at least which would give players two maps to use these new map specific Masteries instead of one. Makes them more meaningful.) and if Mastery points are going to be behind hard or group content there should still be enough at the Hero Point difficulty level to fill the mastery lines.

According to the recent Dev interviews, I think most of the players’ concerns will be alleviated. The Devs seemed to really try to address the feedback since HoT.

Of course, no matter what, not everyone will be pleased.

The masteries and leveling of them makes people play the game and the unlocking of masteries also gives new ways to play and unlocks things.

I like it better than increasing level caps. Plus, masteries are account wide so do them once you’re set.

I do.

Back when Itzel Poison Lore was needed it really felt like my character grew and matured after finally obtaining it.

The only thing I would change is showing the mastery rank of others.

I would very much like to see masteries completely divorced from achievements. IMO, they should be two separate systems. Masteries should extend the XP gain once a player hits 80. Players could thus earn them by playing the game the way they want to rather than the way they are being forced to.

I like the mastery system, though I didn’t like mastery points being linked to adventures. As more mastery points became available this became less of a problem.

I do agree that they need to be more useful. I’m fine with the LWS3 ones being for one map for most part, that’s fine since they were easy to get and didnt require to many master points. But it would be nice if we could use them on more maps to make them feel more worth it.

I love the system; I don’t like some of the mastery lines. Pact & Fractal mastery are pretty good and always useful. Legendary mastery is mostly just a gating tool.

Some of the LS3 masteries are great; some feel too-specific to the map. And the HoT masteries include a lot of things that are purely gates to prevent early access to certain areas.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I love the system; I don’t like some of the mastery lines. Pact & Fractal mastery are pretty good and always useful. Legendary mastery is mostly just a gating tool.

Some of the LS3 masteries are great; some feel too-specific to the map. And the HoT masteries include a lot of things that are purely gates to prevent early access to certain areas.

They’re supposed to be gates. In most MMOs you have to level to get to areas you couldn’t normally do. But we don’t have leveling here. So how do you slow people down and stop them from burning through the content. You gate it.

No matter how much cointent is in an expansion some people are going to finish it in a matter of months or even faster. In normal games it’s leveling and gearing and in this game it’s masteries. They solve the poblem of progression,. Fortunately, they’re account bound which makes them much more appealing to me.

I like the Masteries. I like the experience requirement. I’d even gladly pay the XP requirement many times over. I find Mastery Points on the other hand, to be horrid.

I’m sure some of that is my particular situation. I’ve been slowly working towards getting them, but I’ve hit a barrier that is insurmountable for the moment. There’s still a fair number locked away in story. However, the game is DCing me as a matter of course during the last part of the story step, while long winded NPC’s gradually wind their way to whatever conclusion they’re eventually supposed to get to.

Couple that with my distaste for putting MP’s in adventures, and needing to burn my finite supply of teleport to friends to get into the new zones to be able to access at least some of the points there…

I hope you see why I’d prefer an XP only system, even if it was ten times the XP.

I like-ish it. I think the system has potential, but I don’t think it’s really lived up to that potential in many places.

It might just be because I’ve already got everything in PvE and I’ve got about 2.3k spare points in WvW so any new mastery isn’t really something to work towards but it’s ehh.

Mastery points are fine IMO, they give you a content target.

Thanks for the feedback guys. As some of you said, I m perfectly fine with the xp requirement for masteries, i even look forward to it! What I really dislike are the mastery points being attached to achievements. I am the kindda player that never cared at all about achievements and saw them rather as an annoyance than a fun part of the game. Hence my frustration with the current progression system

I hate the way u grind for mastery points by doing same story over and over or doing boring achievements.

Only thing i enjoyed doing was mini game stuff but other than that its boring as hell.

Especially when u are a hardcore wvw/pvp player. Wish there was a way to earn mastery points by doing wvw/pvp…

Personally no, I don’t like it. Too much grind for me which is why I only go for stuff I really need and then go back to my casual, random roaming playstyle.

They were interesting … for a while.
Getting a new gliding level and then returning back to a previous map, trying to reach a zone you previosuly couldn’t figure out how to reach, gives exploration a new, refreshing touch.
Exploration is a one time experience though, so eventually you know the maps, you have the masteries, and things start to feel like if those improvements were always there. Not really sure if making masteries account bound was a good idea or not.
The way to unlock them could have also been better, more lore based and less reliant on adventures.

Masteries on LS maps are next to terrible. Some of them are pointless, most are limited to the LS map itself, and for those who have an excess of mastery points, things are unlocked pretty much instantly.

I’m not a big fan of masteries and I don’t feel it brings real progression to my character(s)
For one..masteries are account wide. Why does my alt suddenly know Itzel lore when he’s never been to HoT before ?
Second, some masteries are too specific for only one map. I hated spending my well earned mastery point on a (Imo) useless skill only to get map completion.
Third : It’s mostly achievement driven and not XP driven. I’m not much of an achievement gatherer, but the system is forcing me into being one.
Last : I dislike they way some people use the mastery rank as a measure tool. The mastery rank doesn’t tell anything about one’s playing style and skills.

When I first heard about the mastery system and how it would allow your characters to grow I was thinking about things like ; maybe you can unlock a 2% buff increase on healing or a 1% crit bonus when using sword and shield.
You know, things that could make characters more diverse ( a bit like planar attunement in Rift).

I know it is a way to keep people playing the game and unlocking more stuff, but I feel it could have been so much more.

I like them. I do not find much fun in PvP or WvW, nor do I enjoy the really hard and grindy Achievements but the Mastery system was the perfect way to challenge me when I needed all those Points in order to make a HoT Legendary. It also challenged me to do Fractals and Dungeons (for my second Legendary Rodgort) in order to get enough Tyria Mastery points. There are definately several HoT Adventures that I will never get the point for: most Gold Medals are out of my reach.

The system is much better then Gear resets and extra levels.

I do agree with a few of the points though: some tweaks are needed. I especially dislike the fact that some points are locked behind the Raid thing so that I can never earn spirit shards in HoT. This makes revisiting HoT less interesting for me though I still do it for lots of the other currencies off course.

I would like the Masteries that we earn in HoT and LS to be useful in new content too, but I think this will be hard to do for every Mastery. I do not think we will see Wallochs or jumping shrooms in the Desert but who knows? But now we get Mount masteries which are useful in old content too so that is a good thing!

my love for the mastery system is only hampered by its major flaw.
Its not fleshed out. It’s a wallet of points that buys abilities, and thats it.

There are no events tied to it, no lore, no stories, no interactions, its a window you see once. Instead of filling up an exp bar, I wouldve loved to see interaction with the world.
How is killing 500 spiders teaching me how to speak native Hylek, or running around killing centaurs is supposedly teaching me how to better jump on mushrooms.

What I would’ve loved to see was the masteries unlocked by events, or by story chapters, and once that is passed you can buy the mastery with 1 point.

“But muh playh however I want will be gated behind the story”
well, yea, duh, it’s nothing new when PvE components are gated behind the story. Rayman couldn’t learn to fly until Li gave him the ability.
And it’s only once, the unlocks are account-wide.

and my greatest fear will be if PoF only has mount masteries. We’re going to the crystal desert, for Abaddon’s sake, there’s more than just mounts.
There’s the Sulphurous Wastes, there’s the Junundu Wurms, there’s the desert heat, there’s ghosts of the un-ascended. I can think of hundreds of masteries for the desert alone.

I kind of like it but don’t really like it… Some of them are useful but there are many I don’t care about. I maxed everything I needed but I will never touch the stupid ones. Like “Become honored among the Exalted by challenging their champion each day” – no thanks, I can totally live without that. :P Gliding and autoloot are amazing, though!

Since I like to mix up my PVE gameplay from time to time, yes. I found that with everything I didn’t mind doing, I managed to get all the mastery points I needed for maxing. I can see the problem if your range of PVE interests is more narrow though.

Palador.2170:

That whole line could have been done without. A smaller example is the Flame of Koda, and how it’s used in only one zone.

Good point, although I think the biggest issue with the Flame was that the zone just doesn’t have the debuff effect the torch was meant to counteract. Hence it all fell entirely flat.

I like this system, because IMO its very good alternative to adding next lvl’s, after 80. Which many mmorpg’s do. I think mastery system with perma 80lvl is better option.

But meanwhile I personally dont lvl up them. I got around ~60 masteries (while i play really actively). I just dont feel compelled to max them, whats fine for me, cause I prefer challenging content. Like Raids and PvP.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

According to the recent Dev interviews, I think most of the players’ concerns will be alleviated. The Devs seemed to really try to address the feedback since HoT.

Could you link to these interviews?

In the past, I searched but never found any direct dev answer to the mastery system feedback. Because of that, I decided to postpone any future expansion purchase until after that expansion’s release with sufficient player feedback – I will not buy any expansion with a mastery system implementation similar to that in HoT. I don’t see the mastery system itself as a show-stopper, I mean the grind and the mode of aquisition of the mastery points.
I would be happy to pre-purchase to get the pre-purchase additions, but with the current state of information that’s not possible.

The mastery system is certainly better than a gear treadmill.

I prefer guild wars 1 and secret world legends progression.
Guess mastery system is alright if the masteries themselves are fun things to play with. I hope PoF has more engaging masteries than HoT. I don’t care about scraping together points to talk to a frog, or a different type of frog or gathering a trophy item from an ore node.

I do like the mastery system as it gave experience a use past level 80 but my issue was the HoT maps because i hated them so much that i never been able to get many points.
I’m hoping with PoF that doing a map is more enjoyable with the implementation of mounts at least.

Managed to recently get 100% map completion on Verdent Brink and Auric Basin but i have already reached my limit with the maps.. Tangled Depths…. Ergh! >.<

thuras.4537:

Last : I dislike they way some people use the mastery rank as a measure tool. The mastery rank doesn’t tell anything about one’s playing style and skills.

To be fair, THOSE PEOPLE will always find some arbitrary way to take measure of your experience that is not reflective of actual ability as a whole. People can buy carries to get Legendary Insights, Mastery Points as a measure only stepped in after HoT, and before it was Achievement Points, both of which are a measure of patience and persistance, not skill. Now in some cases it is titles, which again, can be bought in most instances. There will always be the “LINK LEGENDARIES” or the “SPAM ASCENDED” crowd, and this is not the fault of masteries as a mechanic, and unfair to blame the mastery points for how some idiots have decided to use them.

As an aside, I wonder how many people got the MP in VB that was way up inside that airship thing?

I tried a few times and couldn’t see how it could possibly attainable. It went against the grain for me and I succumbed to watching a video. As it played, my bottom jaw got slacker and slacker until it was dragging on the desk.

I promptly decided not to bother.

The underlying system was fine.

Execution, as is common with ANet and good ideas, was a little choppy.

My biggest issues were:

• Needing too many masteries to get other masteries, especially in the minigame Adventures. (Especially speed mushrooms…)
  *Some masteries weren’t useful or impactful (Itzel Poison Mastery…)
• Mastery points tied to buggy, clunky minigames
• Some tied to achievements that are utterly obnoxious.
• XP grind to fill Mastery ranks was a little much.

I don’t mind using XP for it or having to wait, but the first mastery levels really need to come much faster, or new players to the expansions will get bored. That is not supposition, that is what my friends have cited to me, post-mortum.

Probably way too late to fix it for the coming expansion, but it wouldn’t take too much to use the existing framework and just tweak it.

• Faster XP gains
• Be far more considerate where Mastery Points are in the content
• Make sure all the masteries are used throughout the content

Flatley.1620:

As an aside, I wonder how many people got the MP in VB that was way up inside that airship thing?

I tried a few times and couldn’t see how it could possibly attainable. It went against the grain for me and I succumbed to watching a video. As it played, my bottom jaw got slacker and slacker until it was dragging on the desk.

I promptly decided not to bother.

JP inside the airship is actually not as bad as it looks, but if you are having difficulty, then I suggest taking a Daredevil with staff, or a Engineer with Rifle, or of course a Mesmer who can use portals before tricky jumps, then portal themselves back up. Daredevil Staff 5 and Engineer Rifle both have ground targetted leaps that not only cross decent distances, but also carry you slightly upwards along the Z axis allowing you to easily make tricky jumps. Cheers and good luck!

Flatley.1620:

As an aside, I wonder how many people got the MP in VB that was way up inside that airship thing?

I tried a few times and couldn’t see how it could possibly attainable. It went against the grain for me and I succumbed to watching a video. As it played, my bottom jaw got slacker and slacker until it was dragging on the desk.

I promptly decided not to bother.

I actually got that one and even ported some people up there. It was one of the few MPs that I really enjoyed.

On the other hand the MPs that you get by gaining silver or gold in adventure xy really bothered me. Adventures give so many MPs, that they’re almost necessary for maxing out masteries.

I think it’s a pretty good framework just in need of more polish and expansion. I think it beats continuing to add new levels like very other MMO.

I really hate earning mastery points. I need 20 more to finish all the HoT masteries and most of them are locked behind adventures which I find incredibly frustrating.
I also don’t care about achievements but I’m forced to go after them just to finish my masteries so I can earn spirit shards.

I love the mastery system.

Teratus.2859:

I love the mastery system.

qft.

I enjoy it a lot. I don’t like things just handed to me and like having the mastery lines as end game content.

As others have said, some of the masteries have limited use, but some of those are needed for certain areas to progress, so I don’t mind getting them.

Masteries are good alternatives to power creep end game content.

jheryn.8390:

I enjoy it a lot. I don’t like things just handed to me and like having the mastery lines as end game content.

As others have said, some of the masteries have limited use, but some of those are needed for certain areas to progress, so I don’t mind getting them.

Masteries are good alternatives to power creep end game content.

It’s a great progression system.. a way to keep building your characters at max level
It would be kinda neat if each character had their own mastery progression though.. an optional tick box to swap between character and account based masteries would be great.. it would give a lot of people a chunk of replayability that they crave.

Emilie.8193:

I really hate earning mastery points. I need 20 more to finish all the HoT masteries and most of them are locked behind adventures which I find incredibly frustrating.
I also don’t care about achievements but I’m forced to go after them just to finish my masteries so I can earn spirit shards.

Nothing is locked behind Adventures. I haven’t done any Adventures and I have maxed HoT masteries with plenty of spares.

I like the mastery system, but some achievements are really hard to get for me. I love to play games, but I am not really good unfortunately. I still haven’t earned all mastery points needed and now I am stuck…sigh.

And I hate some of the achievements with passion. Like the spoon achievement. I HATE Fractals of the Mists and try to avoid playing that. It’s hard for casual players like me to find a nice group there sometimes. But because of the achievement I tried my best and visited the Fractals of the Mists a lot of times and I still haven’t got the stupid spoon. Just gimme the spoon! After hours playing there I still haven’t found one :<

Admittedly I haven’t finished all of my masteries yet and a big part of the reason for that is I don’t have enough points, but I still like the system. (And I’m confident that if I got on with it I could get enough points without having to do stuff I don’t like/can’t complete, I just keep getting distracted with other content.)

But overall I like the system, especially because so many of the masteries are situational. It means if you don’t have them it’s not a big problem. No one’s going to tell you that you can’t raid because you haven’t got all the mastery points or whatever.

I think it’s a nice way to add progression without forcing everyone to keep chasing the new goal. You can take your time with it without being locked out of any content, apart from the bottom few tiers which are easy to get and occasional special examples like adventures which need specific masteries.

Flatley.1620:

As an aside, I wonder how many people got the MP in VB that was way up inside that airship thing?

I tried a few times and couldn’t see how it could possibly attainable. It went against the grain for me and I succumbed to watching a video. As it played, my bottom jaw got slacker and slacker until it was dragging on the desk.

I promptly decided not to bother.

I really enjoyed that one. I can’t remember what I was actually trying to do but I was just trying to get as high as possible so I could glide over to something or other and I found myself on the start of the path up there. Then I realised it looked like a jumping puzzle so I kept going to see where it lead, and by the time I realised it was going to the mastery point I’d already done most of it.

That’s my favourite kind of jumping puzzles – the ones I find by accident and I’m not even sure if it is a puzzle (or if I’m even supposed to be able to get there) until I’m part way through.

I think it is an excellent system. HoT used it really well, LS3 did not – it mostly just shoved things into the masteries line for the sake of it and some didn’t sync with the map they were exclusive to (Sirens…).

Looking forward to PoF masteries, although it is a bit of a shame it is only mounts and not a wider range of things.

Vayne.8563:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I love the system; I don’t like some of the mastery lines. Pact & Fractal mastery are pretty good and always useful. Legendary mastery is mostly just a gating tool.

Some of the LS3 masteries are great; some feel too-specific to the map. And the HoT masteries include a lot of things that are purely gates to prevent early access to certain areas.

They’re supposed to be gates. In most MMOs you have to level to get to areas you couldn’t normally do. But we don’t have leveling here. So how do you slow people down and stop them from burning through the content. You gate it.

No matter how much cointent is in an expansion some people are going to finish it in a matter of months or even faster. In normal games it’s leveling and gearing and in this game it’s masteries. They solve the poblem of progression,. Fortunately, they’re account bound which makes them much more appealing to me.

I don’t care if they are supposed to be gates; I find it boring that so many are nothing other than gates. I understand why gating is important to traditional MMOs (although whether it’s necessary or not is another discussion). My point is that something can gate content/progression and be enjoyable too.

Look, gliding gates access to some content and it’s fun. Itzel Poison Lore doesn’t do anything except make it hard for people to reach a couple of mastery points; Itzel leadership only prevents people from gaining a mastery point. The pinnacle of Exalted Lore is …unlocking Auric Slivers, which have a very limited use.

So again, I like the system; I don’t like some of the specific masteries for the reasons I’ve listed above.

I like the mastery system. Its better than having to rep farm like in most MMOs. It has a lot of variety to it, in terms of different ways to get points and freedom in terms of how I can go about getting exp. It also challenges me to a decent extent to do content I normally wouldn’t do often like the adventures.

As a completist, I find it very fitting because it pushes me to engage in a lot of the content. I will always welcome more.

I dont like the mastery system at all. I liked the core game of gw2 alot, it had alot of variety to offer us players. With mastery system it became very small oriented and works in a way i dont like. Id prefer if the mastery system was based on experience OR mastery points…not both. It just becomes boring to me. A game which also focus on just mastery is also boring because “play the game how you want” is totally gone in the new expansion maps. Gw2 turned into masterygrind 2.

Besides that, ill always love the core game of gw2.