Doesn't Need To Be Harder

Doesn't Need To Be Harder

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Posted by: Allelya.6830

Allelya.6830

It really depresses me how people expect games to cater to bad/lazy players these days. In the past that was never the case. You either kept trying and learnt to overcome the challenge or you stopped.

Sorry, I actually really like the support I’m getting from many in this thread and am also surprised and grateful. This isn’t WoW. You don’t get to be in the “best of the best” guild and try to “look down” upon others as if you were some kind of Elitist Jerk.

So you’re better at it than others, so fricken what! Stop being a “holier than thou” and follow the lead of your fellow players and offer to help others.

Nice of you to twist what i said as a personal attack. I have no problem with less skilled players asking for help and i understand not everyone is naturally talented at games. But many players have what i think is unjust entitlement for easy content as a result of the shift in game difficulty over the years. Which is what i was pointing out.

Saying “Bad/Lazy” is actually a personal attack. Insulting someone because you disagree with them/their opinion isn’t the route to go. I never said I needed “unjust entitlement”. I was merely stating that I felt that instance was unjustifiably hard- and based on a lot of replies, I’m not the only one who feels that way.

Delvien – d/d Elementalist – Gates of Madness

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Posted by: dlonie.6547

dlonie.6547

I really don’t feel that the content needs to be made easier, but there should be more of a learning curve that teaches people to get the most out of their classes.

The bigger problem is that open world is so easy that the first time a player encounters something difficult (e.g. a dungeon, or some of the new LS instances), they’re completely unprepared.

FWIW, I’ve been running the LS instances on my glass thief with little problem. For the last episode I swapped in valk gear instead of zerk (DPS didn’t really matter and the unavoidable hits while channeling the flame make some extra vitality nice), but otherwise I ran with very little or no defensive traits/gear.

Try playing with your build, use different weapons, etc. Thief has a lot of survivability, especially against elite or lower mobs — you can basically just keep everything blinded with black powder (all of their attacks will miss if they attack slow enough) or just spam Pistol Whip (it has an looooong evade frame that isn’t listed in the tooltip). Pistol Whip + Signet of Malice (heal) + Invigorating Precision (GM trait in the precision line) will get you through pretty much any encounter. Lots of DPS, lots of evades, and lots of healing.

What weapons / gear / traits were you using? Maybe we could give you some tips

(edited by dlonie.6547)

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Posted by: dlonie.6547

dlonie.6547

And spoj really wasn’t trying to attack you, though I understand why you felt he did. He’s just frustrated (as many of us are) at how games are turning into “push button, get reward”. Sometimes that frustration is hard to express without coming off as offensive.

If you enjoy the challenge of having to adapt to a difficult encounter that makes you come up with new strategies and techniques or rethink your playstyle in order to progress, the current trend of gaming difficulty is frustrating.

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Posted by: Allelya.6830

Allelya.6830

I really don’t feel that the content needs to be made easier, but there should be more of a learning curve that teaches people to get the most out of their classes.

The bigger problem is that open world is so easy that the first time a player encounters something difficult (e.g. a dungeon, or some of the new LS instances), they’re completely unprepared.

FWIW, I’ve been running the LS instances on my glass thief with little problem. For the last episode I swapped in valk gear instead of zerk (DPS didn’t really matter and the unavoidable hits while channeling the flame make some extra vitality nice).

Try playing with your build, use different weapons, etc. Thief has a lot of survivability, especially against elite or lower mobs — you can basically just keep everything blinded with black powder (all of their attacks will miss if they attack slow enough) or just spam Pistol Whip (it has an looooong evade frame that isn’t listed in the tooltip). Pistol Whip + Signet of Malice (heal) + Invigorating Precision (GM trait in the precision line) will get you through pretty much any encounter. Lots of DPS, lots of evades, and lots of healing.

What weapons / gear / traits were you using? Maybe we could give you some tips

Let me personally thank you for being constructive and helpful instead of resorting to insults and such. I did, in fact, add a few new friends from this thread and got some help. I’m also looking into setting up more weapons for in my bags because I didn’t know I could just change out when the situation needs me to (other than the main weapon swap between two)

Delvien – d/d Elementalist – Gates of Madness

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Posted by: Cuddy.6247

Cuddy.6247

Game does need to get ALOT harder actually, everything is too kitten easy.

Had a talk with someone today who said soldier’s is kitten because one has got to be unkillable when wearing it which isn’t the case, therefore anet messed up soldier’s. And who told me I’m stupid for doing teq in zerker’s (unfortunately the thread was closed so I couldn’t discuss this anymore)

Soldier’s is kitten. When new content is designed where attributes are completely unhelpful, ANet goofed – their core concept is a joke compared to every other mainstream game (all inclusive – MMO and not) on the market. The game’s limited, inaccessible and marginal. There’s no other game that forces marginalization as much as GW2. I also never called you stupid for using zerker in Teq, I said he’s a structure that can’t be crit – using zerker gear is counterproductive, although I will call you stupid now for implying such a thing.

You’re a lemming and a rube.

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Posted by: dlonie.6547

dlonie.6547

I really don’t feel that the content needs to be made easier, but there should be more of a learning curve that teaches people to get the most out of their classes.

The bigger problem is that open world is so easy that the first time a player encounters something difficult (e.g. a dungeon, or some of the new LS instances), they’re completely unprepared.

FWIW, I’ve been running the LS instances on my glass thief with little problem. For the last episode I swapped in valk gear instead of zerk (DPS didn’t really matter and the unavoidable hits while channeling the flame make some extra vitality nice).

Try playing with your build, use different weapons, etc. Thief has a lot of survivability, especially against elite or lower mobs — you can basically just keep everything blinded with black powder (all of their attacks will miss if they attack slow enough) or just spam Pistol Whip (it has an looooong evade frame that isn’t listed in the tooltip). Pistol Whip + Signet of Malice (heal) + Invigorating Precision (GM trait in the precision line) will get you through pretty much any encounter. Lots of DPS, lots of evades, and lots of healing.

What weapons / gear / traits were you using? Maybe we could give you some tips

Let me personally thank you for being constructive and helpful instead of resorting to insults and such. I did, in fact, add a few new friends from this thread and got some help. I’m also looking into setting up more weapons for in my bags because I didn’t know I could just change out when the situation needs me to (other than the main weapon swap between two)

Glad you got something figured out

FWIW, next time, try asking for help from the standpoint of “I’m struggling with this content, can anyone suggest something that will help me?” Threads with titles like this one appear to be asking for a nerf, and will not attract many helpful people ;-)

Oh, and one more bit of info on thief — don’t be afraid to go ranged if you need to, especially when solo. Sometimes you just need to back off and throw some Cluster Bombs around while you wait for healing / cooldowns. Sword / Pistol + Shortbow are a great combination for soloing content, mainly due to Pistol Whip (see earlier post, s/p #3), Black Powder (pistol #5), and short bow for when there’s too much pressure to melee.

Not to mention that Short Bow #5 is probably one of the most fun mobility skills in the game

Other than that, good thief defenses also include Smoke Screen / Dagger Storm if there’s anything around with projectiles (SS absorbs them, DS reflects them), and Shadow Refuge is good to have for when things get really bad.

Have fun!

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Posted by: Allelya.6830

Allelya.6830

I really don’t feel that the content needs to be made easier, but there should be more of a learning curve that teaches people to get the most out of their classes.

The bigger problem is that open world is so easy that the first time a player encounters something difficult (e.g. a dungeon, or some of the new LS instances), they’re completely unprepared.

FWIW, I’ve been running the LS instances on my glass thief with little problem. For the last episode I swapped in valk gear instead of zerk (DPS didn’t really matter and the unavoidable hits while channeling the flame make some extra vitality nice).

Try playing with your build, use different weapons, etc. Thief has a lot of survivability, especially against elite or lower mobs — you can basically just keep everything blinded with black powder (all of their attacks will miss if they attack slow enough) or just spam Pistol Whip (it has an looooong evade frame that isn’t listed in the tooltip). Pistol Whip + Signet of Malice (heal) + Invigorating Precision (GM trait in the precision line) will get you through pretty much any encounter. Lots of DPS, lots of evades, and lots of healing.

What weapons / gear / traits were you using? Maybe we could give you some tips

Let me personally thank you for being constructive and helpful instead of resorting to insults and such. I did, in fact, add a few new friends from this thread and got some help. I’m also looking into setting up more weapons for in my bags because I didn’t know I could just change out when the situation needs me to (other than the main weapon swap between two)

Glad you got something figured out

FWIW, next time, try asking for help from the standpoint of “I’m struggling with this content, can anyone suggest something that will help me?” Threads with titles like this one appear to be asking for a nerf, and will not attract many helpful people ;-)

Oh, and one more bit of info on thief — don’t be afraid to go ranged if you need to, especially when solo. Sometimes you just need to back off and throw some Cluster Bombs around while you wait for healing / cooldowns. Sword / Pistol + Shortbow are a great combination for soloing content, mainly due to Pistol Whip (see earlier post, s/p #3), Black Powder (pistol #5), and short bow for when there’s too much pressure to melee.

Not to mention that Short Bow #5 is probably one of the most fun mobility skills in the game

Other than that, good thief defenses also include Smoke Screen / Dagger Storm if there’s anything around with projectiles (SS absorbs them, DS reflects them), and Shadow Refuge is good to have for when things get really bad.

Have fun!

I just realized several responses seem to think I was on a thief when did this instance. Sorry if something got confused down the line but in my original post I stated I was on my Guardian. I use shout healing as well.

Delvien – d/d Elementalist – Gates of Madness

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Posted by: dlonie.6547

dlonie.6547

Aaaaaah, Azrael’s name was similar enough to yours that I thought their post was yours while I was skimming the history.

I knew I saw thief written somewhere…. :P

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

I remember when a friend talked me into trying the original Guild Wars. Early on, I did one quest that started in Piken Square called Althea’s Ashes. The quest took me through multiple zones filled with hostile Charr. The final encounter required me to clear an area absolutely filled with Charr. It was just me and three Henchmen. While GW Henchmen were/are somewhat more useful than GW2 NPC’s, they weren’t/aren’t all that good. The healer, Alesia, was pretty bad, actually, as she spent more time attacking than healing due to energy issues.

Anyway, for the one or two of you who may care, my party and I wiped enough times to accumulate full death penalty — a 60% hit to health and energy. To clear the altar and complete the quest, I had to attack, kill one Charr, die, respawn, go back and kill another, right up to the last 3 or 4 mobs. I was not about to return to town after spending more than 1.5 hours just getting to the quest location.

There’s a point to this story, and it’s not about nostalgia for older games where challenge was more findable. It’s that the challenge that quest represented is different than that offered by the LS instance the OP is talking about. In the GW quest, the numbers said, “You’re going to die a lot to complete this.” given my party composition and the limited skill choices I had at the time. In the GW2 encounter, the challenge is: do you recognize the retaliation buff and stop attacking that mob while the buff is on? Throw in the target prioritization and that’s about it. The numbers in the GW2 mission are actually quite forgiving once you recognize those two issues — unlike in the GW encounter.

Challenge in MMO’s seems to be shifting from “mobs are really dangerous” to “mobs might have a mechanic that you have to be aware of and compensate for.” I can see why this has shifted. A lot of people don’t want to spend a long time completing an in-game objective, or to deal with having to fail many times to find a way to complete an encounter. What I hope is that challenge doesn’t slide further, to the point where encounters no longer even require pattern recognition and the ability to think.

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

Soldier’s is kitten. When new content is designed where attributes are completely unhelpful, ANet goofed – their core concept is a joke compared to every other mainstream game (all inclusive – MMO and not) on the market. The game’s limited, inaccessible and marginal. There’s no other game that forces marginalization as much as GW2. I also never called you stupid for using zerker in Teq, I said he’s a structure that can’t be crit – using zerker gear is counterproductive, although I will call you stupid now for implying such a thing.

You’re a lemming and a rube.

Hey, I discussed this in this thread and you still didn’t get my point? Soldier’s is only better when doing Teq if you mess up.
Soldier’s: power, toughness, vitality
Zerker’s: power, ferocity, precision
The toughness won’t hit Teq any harder, the vitality won’t hit him any harder. The same with ferocity and precision, I know, but as long as I know how to survive I’m doing the exact amount of damage like someone in soldier’s. So how is that counterproductive?
But, like I said: You can mess up in soldier’s multiple times wheras you can only mess up in zerker’s once (every other minute). It would be stupid if people would be invincible because of their gear choice and that is what you meant, right?

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Posted by: Aidan Savage.2078

Aidan Savage.2078

Game does need to get ALOT harder actually, everything is too kitten easy.

No, I think we’ve reached a point at which most people are simply confused. Had a talk with someone today who said soldier’s is kitten because one has got to be unkillable when wearing it which isn’t the case, therefore anet messed up soldier’s. And who told me I’m stupid for doing teq in zerker’s (unfortunately the thread was closed so I couldn’t discuss this anymore) – so we’re at a point where even less people understand the game mechanics, I think.

Anyway: I don’t get every mechanic either but to assume that one is invincible when wearing this or that gear or being on this or that character is nonsense, it’s still the brain that matters.

Well… with teq, wearing zerker’s to it IS kinda stupid, if you’re in the zerg. Teq is a structure, and cant be critically hit. If you’re in the areas where they have the defense teams, then it’s good, because you’ve got mob spawns.

But I do agree with you about soldiers (and sentinels) gear. That’s what I run on my guardian for everything, including fractals. She may not be invincible, but she’s kitten near close to it. And yet, people still think it’s foolish to wear it in fractals. I used to as well… until Archdiviner redecorated by splattering the rest of my party in the first fight. And later on when mai trin trashed the party because no one could take a hit. And now? So what if I cant burst as good as you, I more than make up for it by getting your sorry kitten off the ground while I shrug off the damage the boss is doing. Repeatedly.

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

Game does need to get ALOT harder actually, everything is too kitten easy.

No, I think we’ve reached a point at which most people are simply confused. Had a talk with someone today who said soldier’s is kitten because one has got to be unkillable when wearing it which isn’t the case, therefore anet messed up soldier’s. And who told me I’m stupid for doing teq in zerker’s (unfortunately the thread was closed so I couldn’t discuss this anymore) – so we’re at a point where even less people understand the game mechanics, I think.

Anyway: I don’t get every mechanic either but to assume that one is invincible when wearing this or that gear or being on this or that character is nonsense, it’s still the brain that matters.

Well… with teq, wearing zerker’s to it IS kinda stupid, if you’re in the zerg. Teq is a structure, and cant be critically hit. If you’re in the areas where they have the defense teams, then it’s good, because you’ve got mob spawns.

But I do agree with you about soldiers (and sentinels) gear. That’s what I run on my guardian for everything, including fractals. She may not be invincible, but she’s kitten near close to it. And yet, people still think it’s foolish to wear it in fractals. I used to as well… until Archdiviner redecorated by splattering the rest of my party in the first fight. And later on when mai trin trashed the party because no one could take a hit. And now? So what if I cant burst as good as you, I more than make up for it by getting your sorry kitten off the ground while I shrug off the damage the boss is doing. Repeatedly.

I am in the zerg. And do theoretically more damage than someone who lets their gear carry them as being hit by a wave and getting up again takes longer than evading it.
If someone in soldier’s evades the waves as well, we’re again doing the same damage – why do you guys refuse to get my point?

(edited by Jana.6831)

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Posted by: Aidan Savage.2078

Aidan Savage.2078

It’s less refusing to get your point than you being unwilling to understand why it’s recommended as a result of the fight itself. 9/10 times I run teq with TTS, they’re standing right under teq in melee range (the 10th time I usually volunteer to lead and run ranged). You arent just dodging waves, you’re dodging teq’s FEET. On top of that, you also seriously rely on the turrets to be actively cleansing the zerg. Late cleanse? Half your zerg just went down because they wear zerkers and there happens to be 2-5 poison fields down. The other half? They’re wearing soldiers and keeping you from dying. Cripple fields? Cant cleanse those and when enough of them pile on, it’s as damaging as poison fields. You’ll die to those as well.

The assumption you’re making is that you’re dealing only with the waves, which is correct if you’re ranging teq. That may be true of most pug maps, but the “wear soldiers if you’re in the zerg” tagline is coming from people who regularly attend, watch, or lead TTS teq maps when they do melee zergs. It isnt to be elitist, it’s because if you’re wearing zerker, it’s a 100% gaurantee that you’ll end up one of the first people to be downed, and then die in the zerg. That remains true even if you have a -1ms ping or a 9999ms ping.

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

I can see why it’s recommended and I know that the turrets are playing a big part of the fight – but if you stand right next to his feet you see when the waves come as he produces them with stomping.
I’m not only dealing with the waves, I just used them as an example and I’m not so sure if soldier’s is that much better than zerker’s when it come’s to the aoe from the fingers.
Anyway, I’m still not downed in my zerker’s gear, worse players than me might be.
We have no TTS on EU and we’re doing fine, actually the teq fights are way less stressful on EU, you can turn up 2 mins beforehand and it still works.

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Posted by: Aidan Savage.2078

Aidan Savage.2078

Comparatively, my guardian is hit for around 900-1200 per tick on a poison field, and about 200-300 for cripple fields, while my necro, wearing rampagers (functionally equivalent to zerker as far as taking damage), takes 2.6k and 600 respectively. That difference is part of why they recommend soldiers.