Guild Wars 2

Substance E.4852:

Zoso.8279:

Shockwave.1230:

To be fair OP, this is ANet we’re talking about.

They delivered a lot more content with less staff in Guild Wars 1.

Lets not forget GW1 only time was open world was in city hubs. Whenever you left towns it was all private instances makes producing new content a lot easier.

Doesn’t mean it can’t be that way here. It seems like the general reception of the “personal, instanced story” has been much better than LS1 where it was much more “you and one bajillion other heroes of the day stop the bad guy”.

I think it still suffers from lackluster storytelling but it feels like events move because I made them happen instead of me just going with the flow. The Pale Tree was saved because I fought the enemy. The Tower of Nightmares was going to fall regardless of my personal involvement.

I don’t think you can say that the personal instanced story gets better reception than an open world story. I’m pretty sure the marionette fight was one of the most loved fights fanbase wise of all the living story updates.

Nerelith.7360:

Aside from that… I really do not see any new permanent content that is " expansion-like." In 2 years even WoW added more. WoW is better at providing expansions than Gw2. Think about that for a Moment. let it sink in. World of Warcraft….. better.

[quote=4340346;Nerelith.7360:][quote=4338957;Godzzila.3752:]

Substance E.4852:

Zoso.8279:

Shockwave.1230:

To be fair OP, this is ANet we’re talking about.

They delivered a lot more content with less staff in Guild Wars 1.

Lets not forget GW1 only time was open world was in city hubs. Whenever you left towns it was all private instances makes producing new content a lot easier.

Doesn’t mean it can’t be that way here. It seems like the general reception of the “personal, instanced story” has been much better than LS1 where it was much more “you and one bajillion other heroes of the day stop the bad guy”.

Personally i must say : I miss the LS1

I really have not much interest to play these instances more than once .. heck i
have even to force me playing them once because of all these overlong fights.

Don’t know .. but all in all i think i spent much more time on LS1 than on LS2.

Vayne.8563:

For example, Anet announced for the feature patch they’ve redone stuff to give you higher frame rate in big battles in WvW and at meta events. I think most people want that.

I’d rather have smaller battles and fewer meta events but of course I’m only me and not most people.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

For example, Anet announced for the feature patch they’ve redone stuff to give you higher frame rate in big battles in WvW and at meta events. I think most people want that.

I’d rather have smaller battles and fewer meta events but of course I’m only me and not most people.

This is not really relevant to what I said. I’d rather have smaller battles too, but there are times when big battles happen, many times.

Sure small battles are more fun for me. What’s not fun is as soon as I get into a big battle, my frame rate drops considerably.

So if these performance updates are any good at all, they’ll improve my gameplay experience, not just in one place, but multiple places…even if I do prefer smaller fights.

Of course, we’ll have to see if they make a difference or not.

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

For example, Anet announced for the feature patch they’ve redone stuff to give you higher frame rate in big battles in WvW and at meta events. I think most people want that.

I’d rather have smaller battles and fewer meta events but of course I’m only me and not most people.

This is not really relevant to what I said. I’d rather have smaller battles too, but there are times when big battles happen, many times.

Sure small battles are more fun for me. What’s not fun is as soon as I get into a big battle, my frame rate drops considerably.

So if these performance updates are any good at all, they’ll improve my gameplay experience, not just in one place, but multiple places…even if I do prefer smaller fights.

Of course, we’ll have to see if they make a difference or not.

Relevant or not, I’d still rather have smaller battles and fewer meta events but of course I’m only me and not most people.

Vayne.8563:

Nerelith.7360:

Vayne.8563:

Nerelith.7360:

laokoko.7403:

AlphaNeonic.1925:

Vayne.8563:

This game has all kinds of players who want all kinds of things. I’m pretty sure most players never post on the forums. I’m pretty sure Anet uses metrics of what people actually do in game to figure out what they need to do next.

Say you have 100 people who love pizza. You don’t have pizza to give them at the moment, so you offer them apples and bread. 70% of the people chose apples over bread. They must love bread. We’ll have bread from now on.

That’s basically what’s going on with the game right now. Their metrics may show every one gobbling up Living Story like it’s their favorite thing ever, but if it’s the only new content available, competing with content that’s 2 years old… it’s not an accurate measure of what players want.

I don’t know why they don’t use the in game survey system that we had in beta. People actually playing the game could give quick surveys on the content they want to see next.

well, I think there is a market for everything. Those people who want pizza should go to pizza hut. Those people want bread or apple can stick with whatever Anet is still feeding them.

Maybe Anet chef just isn’t good at making pizza, so instead of competing in the pizza market, they do what they are good at, which is making salad and bread.

To stretch the metaphor a bit. I would Not mind ggoing to Pizza Hut for pizza since I know that Anet cannot make good pizza. The problem is….

They don’t have Garlic Bread, they don’t have rye…they don’t have Black Bread, they do Not have Unleavened Bread. They have thite bread.

They only have vinegar and olive oil for the salad, and the salad is …lettuce, tomato… and occasionally, a pickle… and olives.

If you aren’t gonna compete at making Pizza cause your pizza sucks…. you should be good at bread and salads….

But..they aren’t. they are just…so so. The sad part is, they had potential for better bread and salad. But, they seem to be stuck On giving customers…" just enough" to keep them coming back. Sometimes if customers notice… they don’t come back.

But bread isn’t features people are asking for and calling it bread doesn’t make it easier or faster to create and put into the game.

People think this should have all been done now. Anet should stop everything else and do X. Well that’s not how it works in the real world.

For example, Anet announced for the feature patch they’ve redone stuff to give you higher frame rate in big battles in WvW and at meta events. I think most people want that. That’s one project I don’t want to have people taken off. Those people are now freed up to do something else.

If only it was bread.

I don’t go to Taco Bell for cakes, I don’t go to Pizza Hut for Lobster and Sirloin.

I don’t want Pizza, I just want more varieties of bread and salad, if that is what Anet says it is good at. If it’s not good at Pizza fine, don’t make pizza. I can go to pizza Hut for pizza. I come to Olive Garden, I expect good and different types of salad, and bread.

Two years post launch, I see a lot of white bread. Where’s the rye???

The analogy is so tired, I don’t have any real idea what your last line means.

Divercity, … where is it?

pelle ossa.9705:

Vayne.8563:

pelle ossa.9705:

Vayne.8563:

hannah mee.7925:

dcho.8204:

Even though I just started playing less than 2 months ago

That’s why you’re content, it has nothing to do with unsatisfying lives. I enjoyed this game for nearly 16 months before I started to feel the burn of repetition and dissatisfaction. I got my money’s worth out of the game, but I’d gladly pay for a whole new campaign like they did with GW1.

But some of us are playing 2 years and we’re content as well. It works both ways.

you are so selfish…

I’m selfish because I’m content? Who knew? I’m not asking Anet not to make new dungeons. I’m not asking Anet not to make new PvP types? I’m not asking Anet not to improve WvW? I’m simply pointing out a fact.

On what world is that selfish?

it doesn’t matter what i want or what you want , only because you are content , the rest of us are free to criticize anet and the development of this mmo can be base only for you and for ppl who atm are content , because i bet a very few pvpers atm are content.

There are (or were) way more PVEers and let me tell you they do not share Vayne’s content nature about things. Some of us stuck around to see where this was heading because in the past we were silent when mislead by developers and I guess after a while it gets to the point of “no I won’t be quiet about it I deserve what I paid for” so here I am.

I like aspects of the game, it has potential but there are some serious holes in the design that need ironing out. Not being quiet about it is the only way to get them to see.

tigirius.9014:

pelle ossa.9705:

Vayne.8563:

pelle ossa.9705:

Vayne.8563:

hannah mee.7925:

dcho.8204:

Even though I just started playing less than 2 months ago

That’s why you’re content, it has nothing to do with unsatisfying lives. I enjoyed this game for nearly 16 months before I started to feel the burn of repetition and dissatisfaction. I got my money’s worth out of the game, but I’d gladly pay for a whole new campaign like they did with GW1.

But some of us are playing 2 years and we’re content as well. It works both ways.

you are so selfish…

I’m selfish because I’m content? Who knew? I’m not asking Anet not to make new dungeons. I’m not asking Anet not to make new PvP types? I’m not asking Anet not to improve WvW? I’m simply pointing out a fact.

On what world is that selfish?

it doesn’t matter what i want or what you want , only because you are content , the rest of us are free to criticize anet and the development of this mmo can be base only for you and for ppl who atm are content , because i bet a very few pvpers atm are content.

There are (or were) way more PVEers and let me tell you they do not share Vayne’s content nature about things. Some of us stuck around to see where this was heading because in the past we were silent when mislead by developers and I guess after a while it gets to the point of “no I won’t be quiet about it I deserve what I paid for” so here I am.

I like aspects of the game, it has potential but there are some serious holes in the design that need ironing out. Not being quiet about it is the only way to get them to see.

Another way to get them to see is not just to be loud, but to stop supporting them. Cut out all that gem purchasing. After all, it doesn’t make much sense to make your points here, and keep buying stuff.

In a Pay sub game the way to tell a dev that you think he’s messed up…is to stop subscribing.

here it’s easier, you can keep playing the game, Just stop spending money.

tigirius.9014:

pelle ossa.9705:

Vayne.8563:

pelle ossa.9705:

Vayne.8563:

hannah mee.7925:

dcho.8204:

Even though I just started playing less than 2 months ago

That’s why you’re content, it has nothing to do with unsatisfying lives. I enjoyed this game for nearly 16 months before I started to feel the burn of repetition and dissatisfaction. I got my money’s worth out of the game, but I’d gladly pay for a whole new campaign like they did with GW1.

But some of us are playing 2 years and we’re content as well. It works both ways.

you are so selfish…

I’m selfish because I’m content? Who knew? I’m not asking Anet not to make new dungeons. I’m not asking Anet not to make new PvP types? I’m not asking Anet not to improve WvW? I’m simply pointing out a fact.

On what world is that selfish?

it doesn’t matter what i want or what you want , only because you are content , the rest of us are free to criticize anet and the development of this mmo can be base only for you and for ppl who atm are content , because i bet a very few pvpers atm are content.

There are (or were) way more PVEers and let me tell you they do not share Vayne’s content nature about things. Some of us stuck around to see where this was heading because in the past we were silent when mislead by developers and I guess after a while it gets to the point of “no I won’t be quiet about it I deserve what I paid for” so here I am.

I like aspects of the game, it has potential but there are some serious holes in the design that need ironing out. Not being quiet about it is the only way to get them to see.

Evidence? I mean you’re making a claim that there were or are “way more” PvE’ers who don’t share my view. More than what?

You don’t know how many people are still playing the game. We have indications there has been a fall in cash shop numbers, but hardly a significant one. We don’t really know how many people are playing.

You can go and say well no one in my guild and no one on my friends list. I can go on and say well my guild is busier than it was six months ago, and that’s true. It is. Many have come back and many play more hours.

So if you don’t like something, that may be true. But I sort of doubt you have any proof that you’re some sort of majority. I’m in the same boat. The only difference is I’m not trying to pretend I’m in some sort of majority.

Vayne.8563:

Geikamir.6329:

Vayne.8563:

Geikamir.6329:

Worst of all is that it seems like they just don’t understand what the players actually want. They keep making the same mistakes. It’s hard to imagine that changing anytime soon, which is unfortunate.

What players actually want? All players or just players who think like you? Maybe they’re giving some players what they want.

Yeah, I did word that too matter-of-factly.

I mean, I don’t think that they know what players want. I feel I have a very common perception of the game, but I can’t know for sure.

From the look of this update, they’re giving up colored account bound commander tag, which clearly players want, better frame rate in big events, which players want, ways to shut down siege to help defend in WvW which at least some players want, tournaments, which some players want, balance changes (including some stuff at least that players want), mega server fixes for guilds which some players want, dungeon leadership changes which people have been asking for, an improved crafting UI which I want if no one else does, move value for crafters, which crafters at least want….in almost every case when players have come out against something, other players (not just me or so-called “white knights”) have come out in favor of it.

Devata, who’s been pretty negative about many aspects of the game over all posted in the thread on crafting updates and she’s happy with that improvement.

This game has all kinds of players who want all kinds of things. I’m pretty sure most players never post on the forums. I’m pretty sure Anet uses metrics of what people actually do in game to figure out what they need to do next.

The average player of an MMO wants substantial content. They want races, weapons, professions, armor, locations, housing, dungeons, and other items that feel big/important/impactful/relevant. It’s why the expansion model works so well, because it contains those things. It’s not because it’s a large chunk ever six or so months, in my opinion. Frequent updates that Arena Net does is a great idea, but it should amount to something. The worlds that get added should have meaning and reason for players to continue spending time there.

And they seem insistent upon not providing those other types of content mentioned. I can’t figure out why. If you held a poll asking players if they’d like those things I have an extremely hard time imagining that more than a small fraction would say no.

I want More races, more classes, more weapons.( polearms…nunchucks…three-section-staff!!!..a girl can dream right?)

The thing is, as long as Anet is in love with Living story, I sincerely doubt I will ever see any of that. And it seems that not only are they in love with living story, but they want us all so gaga over it, that we do not notice, that two years after launch, and no “traditional” expansion is in sight.

Traditional expansions excite the player-base. It brings new players In, and old players back. as long as they keep the level cap at 80, … there is No " level" creep.

The thing is,…. maybe many players are content with living story after having given up on traditional expansions… maybe many players rather have free Living story, than a paid expansion.

I myself, if given the option…." We can give you living story for 6 months…or…Hold back on living story, so you get less updates…but at the end of 6 months you get a full traditional paid-for expansion that includes… about 30 % to 40 % current map size worth of new maps…. 2 New Professions, 1 2 new playable races (quaggan and Skritt!!!)… and 8 new weapons…some two hand, some 1 hand, some offhand, along with … new skills… "

I know I would go for the second option, and i feel so would a large segment of the player-base. Then again…Anet must know better,…. they are adamant about Living Story being an adequate replacement to The " traditional paid-for expansion".

I want Arena.net to expand the universe, not stack new things and forgetting older things like WoW devs do.

New things are POINTLESS unless they can add them without forgetting the older things.

Also, lesser race will never be playable… An aquatic peaceful fat ball will do nothing on a battleground. A quaggan warrior is inconsistent. A no brain rat can’t became “second in command” of the Pact.

Do you realize what 30 to 40% of the current map size as new map represent ? How can they make the new attractive but prevent the old to be useless ? If you can answer this, it’s good. But make older content decay and rotting is worst than adding few new content.

WoW (many people like to compare to it anyway) have a rotting tactic.
What bring an expansion ?
New levels ! Go pex in the new area because it’s the only one granting enough XP
New stuff ! Since you have leveled up, all your old ultra optimise gear is useless and you must replace all.
New farm thing ! But to prevent you to go too fast or play too casually, here some things you must do everyday just to unlock ultimate allpowerful gear. (faction reputation, valliance token)

And suddenly, all previous content became totally pointless. And I don’t mention their bad habbit of forgetting new races and let them decay when they’re not new anymore.

You can now level up crafting without doing all “classic” work. Just go to the last expansion area and farm here ! Why bothering with crafting copper sword, iron sword, steel sword, mithril sword to level up and be able to make orichalcum sword ? Make orichalcum pot, orichalcum sting, orichalcum stick, and orichalchum nail instead ! It’s useless but you can sell them to an NPC for gold.

Also in the new area orichalcum is pretty common and it’s not a pain to gather all the orichalcum needed. Don’t bother with the price to buy all this orichalcum or gathering all of it, there are plenty of them !

Kulvar.1239:

I want Arena.net to expand the universe, not stack new things and forgetting older things like WoW devs do.

New things are POINTLESS unless they can add them without forgetting the older things.

Also, lesser race will never be playable… An aquatic peaceful fat ball will do nothing on a battleground. A quaggan warrior is inconsistent. A no brain rat can’t became “second in command” of the Pact.

Do you realize what 30 to 40% of the current map size as new map represent ? How can they make the new attractive but prevent the old to be useless ? If you can answer this, it’s good. But make older content decay and rotting is worst than adding few new content.

WoW (many people like to compare to it anyway) have a rotting tactic.
What bring an expansion ?
New levels ! Go pex in the new area because it’s the only one granting enough XP
New stuff ! Since you have leveled up, all your old ultra optimise gear is useless and you must replace all.
New farm thing ! But to prevent you to go too fast or play too casually, here some things you must do everyday just to unlock ultimate allpowerful gear. (faction reputation, valliance token)

And suddenly, all previous content became totally pointless. And I don’t mention their bad habbit of forgetting new races and let them decay when they’re not new anymore.

You can now level up crafting without doing all “classic” work. Just go to the last expansion area and farm here ! Why bothering with crafting copper sword, iron sword, steel sword, mithril sword to level up and be able to make orichalcum sword ? Make orichalcum pot, orichalcum sting, orichalcum stick, and orichalchum nail instead ! It’s useless but you can sell them to an NPC for gold.

Also in the new area orichalcum is pretty common and it’s not a pain to gather all the orichalcum needed. Don’t bother with the price to buy all this orichalcum or gathering all of it, there are plenty of them !

Just an FYI, The skritt become more Intelligent the more of them you gather in the same place. Who knows, get enough of them together and you may have a Hive Mind smarter than the Asura, or The Charr.

So yes, in individual numbers they are kinda dumb…. but in huge numbers?

What I would Like to see is a hive mind character that occupies 8 bodies for example, as a playable race. While the challenges needed to make it playable, might be insurmountable, I believe the lore would support it, and it would be something totally new in MMO’s.

As for the Little aquatic furballs. While I can see that the idea of playing one doesn’t appeal to you, it does not mean others may not have a desire to play one. Just because theya re " minor races" now, doesn’t mean they cannot be made into playable characters…. Look at World of warcraft and Goblins.