Guild Wars 2

That’s it. The title. Don’t cave in. Yes this is directed to ANet, but you can’t say that in the title so hey.

Don’t cave in. Don’t give in. You guys made a game, and you guys made a game that you could be passionate about. That you had all these ideas for that took years to get working.

So make your game. Make it the way you want to make it. (Or… continue… to make it? Whatever works.) Because this is your game, your baby.

People that don’t ‘get’ the game? They don’t get it. And they probably won’t continue to play. People that want to massively change the game’s systems or how certain things work probably fall under this category.

But at the same time, don’t forget about us, the little people who bought your game. Because some of us do have pretty good ideas.

Even so, this is your game. You honestly don’t have to listen to any of us. And I hope that when you -do- listen to us, it’s because you want to, not because you feel forced to.

Don’t cave in. =3

That is the worst possible attitude one could have:
“Our product is flawless. If the customers don’t like it then they don’t get it.”

Really?

I disagree. It’s not caving in for ANet to listen to their playerbase.

We players are the most important voice here. It’s us they should always listen to.
Especially to listen to our criticism. We are the ones playing the game and we are the ones experiencing the good and the bad.

And of course they should evaluate what we say and make up their mind with a “non-biased” and logical approach. But this speaks for itself.

This. I bet most of the people complaining here are the very same people on the WoW forums who said, “GW2 is going to be so fun!” Which, when you translate it given the context actually meant, “I don’t like playing a game with pandas in it and Imma gonna go somewhere else!” This game is actually enjoyable and far from a corridor. Sure, zones are instanced, but still big enough to explore without that SWTOR corridor feeling (and don’t even get me started on orbital stations -_- ) Yeah Ord Mantell and Hoth were fun, but most of the planets were, “OMG not this planet again!” whenever I made an alt.

Also, if you ever obtain an unexpected periphery demographic please don’t change in a major way, they’d like the game because of how you made it when you didn’t even think they’d be playing. Think of it like American producers only thinking Americans are watching their stuff, then they have an unexpected worldwide audience, and change accordingly. New audience then says, “This isn’t as good as the previous stuff”, and they flock to Youtube for their entertainment instead. But that’s an entire topic in itself worthy of scholarly study meant for elsewhere.

In short, do things the way you want to. Don’t nerf a class because everyone complains about it, etc.

This game is far from flawless and has several serious issues that need to be addressed. Some people have better insight than others and will notice these issues a lot sooner. Those who are oblivious to their surroundings will continue to claim there is nothing wrong with the game…

The problem with player criticism: happy people rarely post in forums, while dissatisfied people voice their opinion a lot more. Unless you build a representative player panel and do surveys a hundred people could complain about the game in forums without being relevant for the playerbase as a whole.

Geemo.6018:

This game is far from flawless and has several serious issues that need to be addressed. Some people have better insight than others and will notice these issues a lot sooner. Those who are oblivious to their surroundings will continue to claim there is nothing wrong with the game…

and I take it you are one of those especially gifted people acting for the benefit of us oblivious masses.

If many people complain about a certain class being overpowered, and ANet decides to nerf it, the blame should not in my opinion be pointed at the players who complained.

After all, in the end it’s ANets decision how to proceed with what people complain about. In that aspect, I do agree that they should not “cave in” simply at the amount of people complaining about a certain thing.
They should always look at it, and use their own knowledge about what would be best to do…

I am all in favor for a hard game, I am not in favor for a boring grind of a game that GW 2 is not suppose to be. Better they fix what they advertise the game to be so it’s consistent with what they promised.

The reason I quit GW 1 is because they promised a game with no grind then I got to lvl 20 and I had to grind to get my elite skills. not cool. false advertisement so I quite the game. I hope that doesn’t happen here.

Right, in order to have any type of successful game you NEED to have something for everyone. All the people who comment on others opinions or suggestions seem to all say the same things. Here’s a few examples:

“Anet did everything thing they said they were going to do” Ok sure they did, that does not mean that it is practical in any sense of the word or even works for that matter.

“Since there is no sub fee they could care less if you like the game and leave or not” Well that is just horrible business ethics, and can only hurt them in the long run seeing how the popularity of these types of games are based more on word of mouth than anything else.

Or my personal fav “If you don’t like what they did then just leave and go play something else, you leaving the game effects me and others who like it as is in no way what so ever”

Um false and here is why. Seeing as how this game has no monthly sub Anet is forced to make money and or profit through micro transactions, so if all these people who want some sort of gear progression or whatever else they feel is missing ( and the numbers for it over those whom are against it are higher if only by 15-20% higher )
leave the game then Anet is making less money through micro transaction which in turn would effect the rate they pump out new content due to the lack of funds.

Valkaneer.7834:

I am all in favor for a hard game, I am not in favor for a boring grind of a game that GW 2 is not suppose to be. Better they fix what they advertise the game to be so it’s consistent with what they promised.

The reason I quit GW 1 is because they promised a game with no grind then I got to lvl 20 and I had to grind to get my elite skills. not cool. false advertisement so I quite the game. I hope that doesn’t happen here.

How was getting elites a grind? You looked on the wiki which bosses had the skill you wanted, then you got a signet of capture and went and got the skill. That was one of the most fun parts of the game.

Here is another prime situation where an arenanet fanboy looks past the glaring flaws in this game because they cannot see anet ever doing anything wrong. The game is a great experience but it is by no means close to perfect. At this moment it is lacking in some very specific areas.

And lets face facts, anet didn’t keep to their word in terms of antigrind. What is there to do at lol 80 but grind legrndaries, grind cosmetic dungeon skins and wvw?

I specifically pointed out that they should not ignore players in the entirety. And I know that the game has problems. But they should not cave in to ridiculous demands made by a very vocal minority. No, I don’t really have anything in mind at the moment when I say this, but the point still stands.

The game has problems. Those problems should be fixed.

But that doesn’t mean that they should compromise on what they believe in, and how they believe this game should be.

It’s not like they have caved yet too. That wonderful interaction we had with them during the bwe’s now seem a dream of the past. They have barely commented on the problems the forum crowed have bought up so it is inevitable that these issues will constantly be bought up.

An example, which annoys me the most and I will nit stop going back to it, was the ninja addition of the ‘antibot’ code which basically screws legit players because they can’t deal with botters in another way.

Illushia.3721:

I specifically pointed out that they should not ignore players in the entirety. And I know that the game has problems. But they should not cave in to ridiculous demands made by a very vocal minority. No, I don’t really have anything in mind at the moment when I say this, but the point still stands.

The game has problems. Those problems should be fixed.

But that doesn’t mean that they should compromise on what they believe in, and how they believe this game should be.

Maybe they shouldn’t compromise everything they believe in, but then maybe they should compromise some of it….. that is if they want the game to have any sort of success and or longevity (and don’t say selling 2 mil copies signifies success. Swtor in all it’s failed glory sold that many copies in preorders even before there was a set release date)

Just because they might believe in something or have a vision for it does not make it practical or even means it is going to work.

Frankly, they don’t need to change a kitten thing about their design philosophy. This is the game they said it was going to be YEARS ago. If you bought the game knowing what it was going to be and are now coming to these boards demanding that they change it you can go kitten yourself.

They delivered EXACTLY what they said they were going to deliver. A game based on dynamic events coupled with some static events (hearts). A game with no traditional raid content or tiered loot treadmill. A game with no holy trinity where every player is responsible for themselves.

This is exactly what we got. There are bugs and balance issues that need to be addressed, but they shouldn’t change the core of their game to appease people who knew what this was going to be and don’t like or those who bought it and didn’t know that there ANet was approaching the MMO from a fundamentally different angle.

Don’t like it? Adapt or go away. There’s a myriad of shallow loot treadmills with dead worlds out there. Go pick one of them and leave us the hell alone.

Dedish.7923:

Illushia.3721:

I specifically pointed out that they should not ignore players in the entirety. And I know that the game has problems. But they should not cave in to ridiculous demands made by a very vocal minority. No, I don’t really have anything in mind at the moment when I say this, but the point still stands.

The game has problems. Those problems should be fixed.

But that doesn’t mean that they should compromise on what they believe in, and how they believe this game should be.

Maybe they shouldn’t compromise everything they believe in, but then maybe they should compromise some of it….. that is if they want the game to have any sort of success and or longevity (and don’t say selling 2 mil copies signifies success. Swtor in all it’s failed glory sold that many copies in preorders even before there was a set release date)

Just because they might believe in something or have a vision for it does not make it practical or even means it is going to work.

SWTOR sold 2.4 million copies.

Total.

Listening to feedback is good, compromising the core design vision to meet the requests of raiders, progress-questers and endless stat gear progression fans would be disastrous. There’s a big difference between those two things.

Badger.9374:

Frankly, they don’t need to change a kitten thing about their design philosophy. This is the game they said it was going to be YEARS ago. If you bought the game knowing what it was going to be and are now coming to these boards demanding that they change it you can go kitten yourself.

They delivered EXACTLY what they said they were going to deliver. A game based on dynamic events coupled with some static events (hearts). A game with no traditional raid content or tiered loot treadmill. A game with no holy trinity where every player is responsible for themselves.

This is exactly what we got. There are bugs and balance issues that need to be addressed, but they shouldn’t change the core of their game to appease people who knew what this was going to be and don’t like or those who bought it and didn’t know that there ANet was approaching the MMO from a fundamentally different angle.

Don’t like it? Adapt or go away. There’s a myriad of shallow loot treadmills with dead worlds out there. Go pick one of them and leave us the hell alone.

Right, because farming 180- 380 tokens or whatever it is per piece for exotics is not a gear treadmill or grind what so ever…Lulz

Dedish.7923:

Badger.9374:

Frankly, they don’t need to change a kitten thing about their design philosophy. This is the game they said it was going to be YEARS ago. If you bought the game knowing what it was going to be and are now coming to these boards demanding that they change it you can go kitten yourself.

They delivered EXACTLY what they said they were going to deliver. A game based on dynamic events coupled with some static events (hearts). A game with no traditional raid content or tiered loot treadmill. A game with no holy trinity where every player is responsible for themselves.

This is exactly what we got. There are bugs and balance issues that need to be addressed, but they shouldn’t change the core of their game to appease people who knew what this was going to be and don’t like or those who bought it and didn’t know that there ANet was approaching the MMO from a fundamentally different angle.

Don’t like it? Adapt or go away. There’s a myriad of shallow loot treadmills with dead worlds out there. Go pick one of them and leave us the hell alone.

Right, because farming 180- 380 tokens or whatever it is per piece for exotics is not a gear treadmill or grind what so ever…Lulz

You can get exotic items in other ways, you know? That farming is for people who want to look snazzier than they otherwise would. I’m crafting my own exotic gear and I’m satisfied with the way my character looks. If I ever want to look like everyone else who grinds those tokens I can, but I’d rather do my own thing. Just because a grind exists somewhere doesn’t mean you have to do it.

And no, it’s not a gear treadmill. That would be raiding for tier 1, so that you can raid for tier 2, so that you can raid for their 3, etc. That exotic gear is the same as the exotic gear I can craft, get from 100% zone completion, find from loot chests (dungeons AND events), get from the mystic forge, or buy off the trading post. It’s an optional aesthetic difference that you could pursue if you wanted to. If you do, don’t kitten about the amount of time it’s going to take.

Badger.9374:

Dedish.7923:

Badger.9374:

Frankly, they don’t need to change a kitten thing about their design philosophy. This is the game they said it was going to be YEARS ago. If you bought the game knowing what it was going to be and are now coming to these boards demanding that they change it you can go kitten yourself.

They delivered EXACTLY what they said they were going to deliver. A game based on dynamic events coupled with some static events (hearts). A game with no traditional raid content or tiered loot treadmill. A game with no holy trinity where every player is responsible for themselves.

This is exactly what we got. There are bugs and balance issues that need to be addressed, but they shouldn’t change the core of their game to appease people who knew what this was going to be and don’t like or those who bought it and didn’t know that there ANet was approaching the MMO from a fundamentally different angle.

Don’t like it? Adapt or go away. There’s a myriad of shallow loot treadmills with dead worlds out there. Go pick one of them and leave us the hell alone.

Right, because farming 180- 380 tokens or whatever it is per piece for exotics is not a gear treadmill or grind what so ever…Lulz

You can get exotic items in other ways, you know? That farming is for people who want to look snazzier than they otherwise would. I’m crafting my own exotic gear and I’m satisfied with the way my character looks. If I ever want to look like everyone else who grinds those tokens I can, but I’d rather do my own thing. Just because a grind exists somewhere doesn’t mean you have to do it.

And no, it’s not a gear treadmill. That would be raiding for tier 1, so that you can raid for tier 2, so that you can raid for their 3, etc. That exotic gear is the same as the exotic gear I can craft, get from 100% zone completion, find from loot chests (dungeons AND events), get from the mystic forge, or buy off the trading post. It’s an optional aesthetic difference that you could pursue if you wanted to. If you do, don’t kitten about the amount of time it’s going to take.

That isn’t really the point, and think about it.. it is a treadmill in a sense. These forums are riddled with lack of endgame content and stuff to do at 80 post, and almost anyone who post a thread like this is told to farm /grind all the different exotic sets / skins / so on and so forth. So yes it may not be a gear treadmill in a sense of raid tier one or tier 13.5, it is still a treadmill in just trying to find some thing…anything to do. Whether you’re farming the latest tier of raid gear or grinding and farming for gear cause it has a different skin and you wanna look purty, it is still a gear treadmill.

Kasenai.9418:

That is the worst possible attitude one could have:
“Our product is flawless. If the customers don’t like it then they don’t get it.”

But the customers do like it. Most of the people that don’t like the game walked into it thinking it would be a WoW clone.

Illushia.3721:

That’s it. The title. Don’t cave in. Yes this is directed to ANet, but you can’t say that in the title so hey.

Don’t cave in. Don’t give in. You guys made a game, and you guys made a game that you could be passionate about. That you had all these ideas for that took years to get working.

So make your game. Make it the way you want to make it. (Or… continue… to make it? Whatever works.) Because this is your game, your baby.

People that don’t ‘get’ the game? They don’t get it. And they probably won’t continue to play. People that want to massively change the game’s systems or how certain things work probably fall under this category.

But at the same time, don’t forget about us, the little people who bought your game. Because some of us do have pretty good ideas.

Even so, this is your game. You honestly don’t have to listen to any of us. And I hope that when you -do- listen to us, it’s because you want to, not because you feel forced to.

Don’t cave in. =3

Totally agree with this. I’d rather Anet pursued their vision than steered a wobby course led by whining idiots on forums, as happens with most MMOs (as has happened even with WoW, if I’m not mistaken).

Fortunately, this can happen in a non-subscription game.

As to the “you have to please the customers”. Sure, but you can’t please all the people all the time. It’s better that the game attracts people who like what Anet are offering, than Anet bend and wobble to suit random forums whiners who probably wouldn’t be satisfied with anything anyway.

Yes, Don’t listen to the majority of MMO players, because we are all completely wrong.

Leave your game the way it is, market “leveling” as “end-game” even though it is nowhere near as rewarding, challenging and teamwork heavy as a “real” end-game, its a zerg fest that ends after 80 odd hours.

Don’t make a good proper end-game anet, that way you will lost all the whiny “hardcores” that make up the MAJORITY of this genre, that like an endless game that is fun not a token and ore grind.

Then lose your holy defenders 1 by 1 as they just abandon your game because the “end-game” (aka leveling in their heads) as ended and you have missed out on an amazing opportunity.

Listening to the hardcore defenders is the worst thing they can do at the moment.

Though I give credit to arena nets “Apple-like marketing” , they can market anything and get away with it.

“We want the whole game to feel like end-game” … which in turn defeats the definition of “End-Game”. if the whole game is end game, why is there no actual end-game, which suggests that the WHOLE game isnt end game.

Its brilliant marketing to say “We didn’t have time to finish the proper end-game, so we are going to make out we have no plans for one and lose the majority of our audiance just like SWTOR DID”

DusK.3849:

Kasenai.9418:

That is the worst possible attitude one could have:
“Our product is flawless. If the customers don’t like it then they don’t get it.”

But the customers do like it. Most of the people that don’t like the game walked into it thinking it would be a WoW clone.

No, we thought it would be a presistant ever expanding mmo with innovation and fun to play for years on end.

Turns out the fun ends at level 80 where all I can do is little things that are barely engaging or massive token grinds.

Birdy.4816:

Yes, Don’t listen to the majority of MMO players, because we are all completely wrong.

The idea that the majority of MMO players is represented by whiners on forums is absolutely ludicrous.

gurugeorge.9857:

Birdy.4816:

Yes, Don’t listen to the majority of MMO players, because we are all completely wrong.

The idea that the majority of MMO players is represented by whiners on forums is absolutely ludicrous.

I’m tired of you people’s reading comprehension, WoW is built around end-game, wow has 10 million subsribers, MMO PLAYERS LIKE AN ENDLESS GAME THAT IS FUN.

Birdy.4816:

Yes, Don’t listen to the majority of MMO players, because we are all completely wrong.

Leave your game the way it is, market “leveling” as “end-game” even though it is nowhere near as rewarding, challenging and teamwork heavy as a “real” end-game, its a zerg fest that ends after 80 odd hours.

Don’t make a good proper end-game anet, that way you will lost all the whiny “hardcores” that make up the MAJORITY of this genre, that like an endless game that is fun not a token and ore grind.

Then lose your holy defenders 1 by 1 as they just abandon your game because the “end-game” (aka leveling in their heads) as ended and you have missed out on an amazing opportunity.

Listening to the hardcore defenders is the worst thing they can do at the moment.

Though I give credit to arena nets “Apple-like marketing” , they can market anything and get away with it.

“We want the whole game to feel like end-game” … which in turn defeats the definition of “End-Game”. if the whole game is end game, why is there no actual end-game, which suggests that the WHOLE game isnt end game.

Its brilliant marketing to say “We didn’t have time to finish the proper end-game, so we are going to make out we have no plans for one and lose the majority of our audiance just like SWTOR DID”

You should probably reread my post before you tell someone they need reading comprehension.

I’m not saying don’t listen to players. I’m saying don’t cave to pressure to change the game fundamentally.

Learn to read before you tell someone else to.

Wow a lot of folks here are really missing the whole point.

First off, the whole concept of a never-ending “endgame” is just absurd in the context of an RPG, regardless whether it’s MMO or single-player. Those who’ve tried it (EQ, WoW, et al) have always failed miserably at it.

By definition, “endgame” must be, and always will be, a repetitive grind in some fashion, since devs can not possibly put out content faster than players will consume it; eventually they must start repeating the content in order to have anything to do at “endgame”. This does NOT make for good gameplay.

So what does that leave? The whole rest of the game. One huge lesson I’m sure ArenaNet are taking from other games is that when the focus is placed on endgame, it renders all the pre-endgame (ie. leveling) content obsolete.

Look at WoW for example. The vast majority of its content is pre-level-cap, and yet the level cap is supposed to be “where it’s at” in terms of gameplay. And what is that level-cap gameplay? Endless repetition until the next content patch or expansion.

Now take a look at many of the great single-player RPGs that have predated MMORPGs over the decades, right up to current RPGs like the latest Elder Scrolls games. There is no “endgame” where you stop exploring/questing/leveling and start grinding for months on end; it makes no sense, since once you’ve defeated the game’s ultimate badguy(s), you’re effectively done. Sure, you can keep playing and poke around the gameworld, but your progression is over, period. You’ve beaten the game. You can then either put it down and be done, or try again with a different class/race/whatever for a different style.

GW2 is not a traditional MMORPG, in many respects. From ejecting the holy trinity of class roles (finally!), to prioritizing the journey (exploring/leveling) over the destination (so-called “endgame”), they’ve made fundamental changes to the way these games are played.

To complain about lack of endgame content in GW2 is like complaining that you can’t drive a Ferrari in a football game. It’s apples and oranges.

GW2 is not a game where you’re meant to play the same character at the level cap for years on end. It’s a game to explore and experience, to pick up or put down at your whim, where you’re not pressured or even expected (though you can if you like) to dump days-long marathon sessions into it.

To expect the tank/healer/dps paradigm is to miss the point. To expect that you need to play every available minute to get your money’s worth is to miss the point. To rush through the leveling process for the sake of reaching “endgame” is to really miss the point.

I’m not telling people how to play, but I will say that if you expect something from a game — any game — that’s just not there, nor is intended to be there, you’re entirely missing the point of that game.

Also, I agree with the OP entirely. ArenaNet, stick to your vision; if you try to please everyone, well… go look at Blizzard’s failed attempt at that, and learn from their mistakes instead of repeating them yourselves.

Kimhyuna.1035:

Here is another prime situation where an arenanet fanboy looks past the glaring flaws in this game because they cannot see anet ever doing anything wrong. The game is a great experience but it is by no means close to perfect. At this moment it is lacking in some very specific areas.

And lets face facts, anet didn’t keep to their word in terms of antigrind. What is there to do at lol 80 but grind legrndaries, grind cosmetic dungeon skins and wvw?

Especially crafting mats (especially if you’re tailoring, pretty much every tailor has completed their kill 1,000 bandits achievements by now). But it’s still a great game.

It’s been my experience that the most vocal and aggressive posters on any given MMO forum tend to represent such a small minority of the playerbase. Why? Because folks happy with the game are playing the game and aren’t on a forum complaining about every little last thing.

I’m just so very glad I’m not a game developer. After reading some of the posts on this forum and the way they are worded, I’d have a heck of a time keeping my hands off the keyboard.

The message isn’t “THIS IS THE BEST GAME EVAR OMG”. I like the game. A lot, actually. But I will be among the first to admit that it has problems.

This post isn’t about those problems though. I’m just trying to be a little positive on the boards, since there’s so much “Omg dis gaem sux omg”, and tell ANet that I think they’re doing a good job, and have been doing a good job, and to continue on with what they’re doing.

Just don’t forget that we do sometimes have good ideas. =p

The players as individuals look at things that can be improved about their own experience. It’s a very narrow, biased, and selfish view of the game, and is often contrary to the same narrow and biased views of other players.

That kind of tug of war is something a developer doesn’t want to get involved in. If you want to see an example of a developer who probably cares too much about what the players say, have a look at Trion Worlds and their Rift MMO. They work very hard on the game but can’t seem to satisfy anybody because they’re trying too hard to satisfy everybody. It doesn’t make for a very strong “vision” of what the game is.

So my thing would be for Arenanet to stay focused on their vision of what they want GW2 to be. Especially since this game isn’t relient on an always-bleeding subscription rate, Arenanet is in a unique position (for an AAA release) of being able to let the players grow accustomed to the game, rather than trying to change the game to appease the players.

I believe GW2 is truly the next generation of MMO, and it would be a great shame to see regression because players have a tendency to whine rather than adapt.

I agree. Many other MMO’s have lost much of their charm because they screwed over their initial target audience in favour of appealing to those that had nothing but complaints (and yet ironically lingered regardless).

By JunkyardWolf:

“First off, the whole concept of a never-ending “endgame” is just absurd in the context of an RPG, regardless whether it’s MMO or single-player.”

“GW2 is not a game where you’re meant to play the same character at the level cap for years on end. It’s a game to explore and experience, to pick up or put down at your whim, where you’re not pressured or even expected (though you can if you like) to dump days-long marathon sessions into it.”

This. ^

Illushia.3721:

Don’t cave in. Don’t give in. You guys made a game, and you guys made a game that you could be passionate about.

But at the same time, don’t forget about us, the little people who bought your game. Because some of us do have pretty good ideas.

Intriguing.

Ahwoo.8029:

Illushia.3721:

Don’t cave in. Don’t give in. You guys made a game, and you guys made a game that you could be passionate about.

But at the same time, don’t forget about us, the little people who bought your game. Because some of us do have pretty good ideas.

Intriguing.

There is, in fact, a difference between caving in to every little nitpicker, and realizing that some players have good ideas. While not listening to the vocal minority is a good thing, you shouldn’t ignore players completely. Some of them have really good suggestions.

Like… sittable chairs. Or health bar percentages. Just to name two.

I loved GW1. I thought this would be more of the same only better. GW2 blows chunks, I’m going back to SWToR

Illushia.3721:

That’s it. The title. Don’t cave in. Yes this is directed to ANet, but you can’t say that in the title so hey.

Don’t cave in. Don’t give in. You guys made a game, and you guys made a game that you could be passionate about. That you had all these ideas for that took years to get working.

So make your game. Make it the way you want to make it. (Or… continue… to make it? Whatever works.) Because this is your game, your baby.

People that don’t ‘get’ the game? They don’t get it. And they probably won’t continue to play. People that want to massively change the game’s systems or how certain things work probably fall under this category.

But at the same time, don’t forget about us, the little people who bought your game. Because some of us do have pretty good ideas.

Even so, this is your game. You honestly don’t have to listen to any of us. And I hope that when you -do- listen to us, it’s because you want to, not because you feel forced to.

Don’t cave in. =3

Worst advice ever. Go over to the Diablo 3 forums and see what not listening to their customers did to their reputation. Or you could look at the dozens of failed MMO’s out there. I saw posts like yours on every one of their forums.

Birdy.4816:

Yes, Don’t listen to the majority of MMO players

But you’re not. You think you are, but considering over twice as many people are on this game right now than WoW…

Zacula.4691:

Illushia.3721:

That’s it. The title. Don’t cave in. Yes this is directed to ANet, but you can’t say that in the title so hey.

Don’t cave in. Don’t give in. You guys made a game, and you guys made a game that you could be passionate about. That you had all these ideas for that took years to get working.

So make your game. Make it the way you want to make it. (Or… continue… to make it? Whatever works.) Because this is your game, your baby.

People that don’t ‘get’ the game? They don’t get it. And they probably won’t continue to play. People that want to massively change the game’s systems or how certain things work probably fall under this category.

But at the same time, don’t forget about us, the little people who bought your game. Because some of us do have pretty good ideas.

Even so, this is your game. You honestly don’t have to listen to any of us. And I hope that when you -do- listen to us, it’s because you want to, not because you feel forced to.

Don’t cave in. =3

Worst advice ever. Go over to the Diablo 3 forums and see what not listening to their customers did to their reputation. Or you could look at the dozens of failed MMO’s out there. I saw posts like yours on every one of their forums.

Or you could actually go back and read what I wrote.

Thinking that not listening to the vocal minority, being a good thing, is in fact an opinion, you realize this right? Also, who the vocal minority is, is an opinion. We (that’s you and I) have no metrics to measure who the minority is, here on the forum. Arena net does, alas, you and I are not Arena net.

First it’s “us”, now it’s “them”. Make up your mind already. I quoted you there, to point out the hypocrisy of your message. Chairs that can be sat in, and health bars with percentages being good things, again, are your opinion. And here you have become the very thing you’re rallying against.

Lastly, just to be clear, you said: “There is, in fact, a difference between caving in to every little nitpicker, and realizing that some players have good ideas.” As a matter of fact, there isn’t. I just want to be clear about what facts, in fact, are.

DusK.3849:

Birdy.4816:

Yes, Don’t listen to the majority of MMO players

But you’re not. You think you are, but considering over twice as many people are on this game right now than WoW…

Lmao, I would like to see your source for claim.

Illushia.3721:

Ahwoo.8029:

Illushia.3721:

Don’t cave in. Don’t give in. You guys made a game, and you guys made a game that you could be passionate about.

But at the same time, don’t forget about us, the little people who bought your game. Because some of us do have pretty good ideas.

Intriguing.

There is, in fact, a difference between caving in to every little nitpicker, and realizing that some players have good ideas. While not listening to the vocal minority is a good thing, you shouldn’t ignore players completely. Some of them have really good suggestions.

Like… sittable chairs. Or health bar percentages. Just to name two.

Are you blind to the reality that many many people are disatisfied with what there is at level 80 and no ammount of “game direction” excuses is going to cut it?

We want this game to succeed as much as you, it NEEDS a good end-game though, and no, not this “end-0game is the journey” marketing… a proper end game for us all to enjoy after that short journey is complete.

August.2678:

I disagree. It’s not caving in for ANet to listen to their playerbase.

We players are the most important voice here. It’s us they should always listen to.
Especially to listen to our criticism. We are the ones playing the game and we are the ones experiencing the good and the bad.

And of course they should evaluate what we say and make up their mind with a “non-biased” and logical approach. But this speaks for itself.

Depends what the playerbase are saying. I’m reminded of a post by the Queen of MMO Community Management, Sanya Weathers:

http://eatingbees.brokentoys.org/2011/07/19/metaphorically/

ArenaNet are making cookies here. Suggestions on how to improve the cookie recipe are welcome. Demands that they make ice cream instead are pointless – other people make that. In fact, I believe there’s a new flavour of ice cream out in a week or so

Birdy.4816:

DusK.3849:

Birdy.4816:

Yes, Don’t listen to the majority of MMO players

But you’re not. You think you are, but considering over twice as many people are on this game right now than WoW…

Lmao, I would like to see your source for claim.

If that’s the game you’re going to play: where’s your source? Verification goes both ways; this isn’t a legal system, where one side has a burden of proof and one doesn’t. You’re making a claim that has to be numerically verified.

Hieronumous.3541:

Birdy.4816:

DusK.3849:

Birdy.4816:

Yes, Don’t listen to the majority of MMO players

But you’re not. You think you are, but considering over twice as many people are on this game right now than WoW…

Lmao, I would like to see your source for claim.

If that’s the game you’re going to play: where’s your source? Verification goes both ways; this isn’t a legal system, where one side has a burden of proof and one doesn’t. You’re making a claim that has to be numerically verified.

Oh for gods sake mine is common sense, every mmo has an end game, most people only remain playing for the end-game, most people like a sense of character progression past leveling zones.

…. its so tiresome putting up with these nonsense excuses.

He made a statistical claim that in no way could even be an accurate guesstimate or logical fact.

Hes lying.

Birdy.4816:

Hieronumous.3541:

Birdy.4816:

DusK.3849:

Birdy.4816:

Yes, Don’t listen to the majority of MMO players

But you’re not. You think you are, but considering over twice as many people are on this game right now than WoW…

Lmao, I would like to see your source for claim.

If that’s the game you’re going to play: where’s your source? Verification goes both ways; this isn’t a legal system, where one side has a burden of proof and one doesn’t. You’re making a claim that has to be numerically verified.

Oh for gods sake mine is common sense, every mmo has an end game, most people only remain playing for the end-game, most people like a sense of character progression past leveling zones.

…. its so tiresome putting up with these nonsense excuses.

He made a statistical claim that in no way could even be an accurate guesstimate or logical fact.

Hes lying.

My point is you made an identical statistical claim, with no verification. And then, in your rebuttal, you did it AGAIN.

Great post, and i fully agree!

I hope they change the things they want to change themselfs, and not try to just please all the stupid whining going around, because then they will create a game that they wont feel passionate about themselfs and end up making a worse game instead of improving it.

Dont cave in

Zacula.4691:

Illushia.3721:

That’s it. The title. Don’t cave in. Yes this is directed to ANet, but you can’t say that in the title so hey.

Don’t cave in. Don’t give in. You guys made a game, and you guys made a game that you could be passionate about. That you had all these ideas for that took years to get working.

So make your game. Make it the way you want to make it. (Or… continue… to make it? Whatever works.) Because this is your game, your baby.

People that don’t ‘get’ the game? They don’t get it. And they probably won’t continue to play. People that want to massively change the game’s systems or how certain things work probably fall under this category.

But at the same time, don’t forget about us, the little people who bought your game. Because some of us do have pretty good ideas.

Even so, this is your game. You honestly don’t have to listen to any of us. And I hope that when you -do- listen to us, it’s because you want to, not because you feel forced to.

Don’t cave in. =3

Worst advice ever. Go over to the Diablo 3 forums and see what not listening to their customers did to their reputation. Or you could look at the dozens of failed MMO’s out there. I saw posts like yours on every one of their forums.

You cannot viably compare this game to Diablo 3- there was no fixing D3 when it released as a pile of kitten. You have to have a good foundation, or you will not be able to build.

GW2 has a pretty good foundation. Anet seems to have a good grasp on what people want in the game, and will likely make advances toward what the majority of players would like in the game.

Its a good game, with over 2 million copys sold, and they actually stopped sales of the game on their own website at launch- thats a bold move, and indicates that the sales/profit of the game were quite good. They are in a solid place, and I think they can continue in the direction they are headed, as a lot of people really like the game.

Like the game, but would like an aspect improved upon or expanded? Write a constructive post explaining way you would like a change, and what benefit that change would have on the game.