Guild Wars 2

Theirs no point arguing with White Knights, they see the issue as black and white and ultimately support ANet despite the clearly questionable actions.

For the final time the price isnt the issue, the issue resides in the value of the purchase. If ANet feels that the expansion is worth $50 id like to see what exactly makes it worth $50 before making an investment.

The second fault in value being that clearly existing players are getting the short end of the stick, not to mention that if you purchased in the days before the FAQ change on 05/16/15 you were basically lied to. No matter what way you look at it we are being FORCED to repurchase the base game without getting an extra copy of the core game (HoT has essentially replaced the core game as its the only offering of GW2 being marketed by ANet on their site).

Many of the complaints probably would have ceased to exist if:
A. Something was added to the standard edition (*cough*Char. Slot/800 gems) to make up for the fact that existing players will not be getting a second copy of the core game.

B. Releasing more info on what exactly the expansion includes, not ambiguous rumors as to what exactly we will be getting.

I for one will hold onto my money until ANet address the community on the issue. Also for the love of god, stop comparing this game to P2P models or saying the price is simply justified by the fact this is B2P…

Kill.3458:

Theirs no point arguing with White Knights, they see the issue as black and white and ultimately support ANet despite the clearly questionable actions.

For the final time the price isnt the issue, the issue resides in the value of the purchase. If ANet feels that the expansion is worth $50 id like to see what exactly makes it worth $50 before making an investment.

The second fault in value being that clearly existing players are getting the short end of the stick, not to mention that if you purchased in the days before the FAQ change on 05/16/15 you were basically lied to. No matter what way you look at it we are being FORCED to repurchase the base game without getting an extra copy of the core game (HoT has essentially replaced the core game as its the only offering of GW2 being marketed by ANet on their site).

Many of the complaints probably would have ceased to exist if:
A. Something was added to the standard edition (*cough*Char. Slot/800 gems) to make up for the fact that existing players will not be getting a second copy of the core game.

B. Releasing more info on what exactly the expansion includes, not ambiguous rumors as to what exactly we will be getting.

I for one will hold onto my money until ANet address the community on the issue. Also for the love of god, stop comparing this game to P2P models or saying the price is simply justified by the fact this is B2P…

At least some people understand

Agreed. I came to the same conclusion as Kill. It’s unfortunate, but facts are a funny thing.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Agreed. I came to the same conclusion as Kill. It’s unfortunate, but facts are a funny thing.

Yes and the facts I provided were actually facts, even though you claimed they weren’t. Funny thing that.

Vayne.8563:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Agreed. I came to the same conclusion as Kill. It’s unfortunate, but facts are a funny thing.

Yes and the facts I provided were actually facts, even though you claimed they weren’t. Funny thing that.

Not all of your facts are factual. If you choose to mix misinformation in with your facts in a thread dont be surprised when people have trouble sorting them out.

Kill.3458:

For the final time the price isnt the issue, the issue resides in the value of the purchase. If ANet feels that the expansion is worth $50 id like to see what exactly makes it worth $50 before making an investment.

Exactly. We need to know:
a) what “Challenging Group Content” means (something instanced for guilds I hope)
b) how many maps will HoT have (I think we need at least 10 new maps, more if they are all SW sized)
c) how lengthy will the story of HoT be (at least the same as the entire LS2, hopefully longer)
d) obviously the rest of the specializations

People call HoT “just LS3”, I disagree, I call it an expanded Feature Pack, because we don’t know much about the length of the actual story yet.

The second fault in value being that clearly existing players are getting the short end of the stick, not to mention that if you purchased in the days before the FAQ change on 05/16/15 you were basically lied to. No matter what way you look at it we are being FORCED to repurchase the base game without getting an extra copy of the core game (HoT has essentially replaced the core game as its the only offering of GW2 being marketed by ANet on their site).

Correct me if I’m wrong but I think they are already giving refunds for those who purchased the game during the sales? At least, they’ve done it in the past, people who bought the game just before a sale got refunds so it makes sense to do it now too.

A. Something was added to the standard edition (*cough*Char. Slot/800 gems) to make up for the fact that existing players will not be getting a second copy of the core game.

There is a slight problem with adding new things to the standard edition. Players who already pre-purchased did so without knowing the extra character slot will be in the standard edition, which will make the Deluxe pointless. Those few extras it gives aren’t worth 25$. I believe they didn’t add an extra character slot to the Standard edition in order to have 3 packages. They could’ve easily had 2 packages only, Standard (with a char slot) and a Deluxe with the extras and 2000 gems at 75$. They added the “extra” package in the middle and increased gems to 4000 to create a third package, a package that shouldn’t exist.

I think a good way to reward loyalty is to give an extra character slot to all veteran players on their 3rd birthday (maybe only if they pre-purchased HoT?). I suspect HoT will be released either close to the 3rd birthday of the game, or at least after it, I don’t think it will be released sooner, so adding an extra character slot to veteran players will be in time for HoT and won’t change any of the current packages

maddoctor.2738:

Kill.3458:

For the final time the price isnt the issue, the issue resides in the value of the purchase. If ANet feels that the expansion is worth $50 id like to see what exactly makes it worth $50 before making an investment.

Exactly. We need to know:
a) what “Challenging Group Content” means (something instanced for guilds I hope)
b) how many maps will HoT have (I think we need at least 10 new maps, more if they are all SW sized)
c) how lengthy will the story of HoT be (at least the same as the entire LS2, hopefully longer)
d) obviously the rest of the specializations

People call HoT “just LS3”, I disagree, I call it an expanded Feature Pack, because we don’t know much about the length of the actual story yet.

The second fault in value being that clearly existing players are getting the short end of the stick, not to mention that if you purchased in the days before the FAQ change on 05/16/15 you were basically lied to. No matter what way you look at it we are being FORCED to repurchase the base game without getting an extra copy of the core game (HoT has essentially replaced the core game as its the only offering of GW2 being marketed by ANet on their site).

Correct me if I’m wrong but I think they are already giving refunds for those who purchased the game during the sales? At least, they’ve done it in the past, people who bought the game just before a sale got refunds so it makes sense to do it now too.

A. Something was added to the standard edition (*cough*Char. Slot/800 gems) to make up for the fact that existing players will not be getting a second copy of the core game.

There is a slight problem with adding new things to the standard edition. Players who already pre-purchased did so without knowing the extra character slot will be in the standard edition, which will make the Deluxe pointless. Those few extras it gives aren’t worth 25$. I believe they didn’t add an extra character slot to the Standard edition in order to have 3 packages. They could’ve easily had 2 packages only, Standard (with a char slot) and a Deluxe with the extras and 2000 gems at 75$. They added the “extra” package in the middle and increased gems to 4000 to create a third package, a package that shouldn’t exist.

I think a good way to reward loyalty is to give an extra character slot to all veteran players on their 3rd birthday (maybe only if they pre-purchased HoT?). I suspect HoT will be released either close to the 3rd birthday of the game, or at least after it, I don’t think it will be released sooner, so adding an extra character slot to veteran players will be in time for HoT and won’t change any of the current packages

Hmm that’s a very sound solution for the char. slot issue, but the title ‘veteran’ is something I personally define as someone with 1- 2 years experience in the game (joine during release, 2013/2014), so the birthday gift would have to be pretty universal or else the issue of fairness would rise again.

Also the refund only counts if you bought the game within 60 days and ANet was the retailer, it also may accompany the total termination of your current account. So it’s quite a scary solution unless you haven’t done much in the game since your purchase (1st week of purchase?)

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Agreed. I came to the same conclusion as Kill. It’s unfortunate, but facts are a funny thing.

Yes and the facts I provided were actually facts, even though you claimed they weren’t. Funny thing that.

Not all of your facts are factual. If you choose to mix misinformation in with your facts in a thread dont be surprised when people have trouble sorting them out.

The facts I labeled facts in the post in question were indeed facts. Everyone gets stuff wrong sometimes, but when I say something is a fact, it is.

Aggrostemma.1703:

When my missis texted me that the HoT is in the gem store I drove my car like Schumacher to get home from work. I sat down with my bankcard in my hand and a 100 pounds smile on my face…

…and than I saw the price and the content…

I said something like:
“$ß÷פ;>í]€Í€Í??*¤!!!! You kittened piece of kittened kitty!!!”

(closest translation I can make…)

No I won’t buy the HoT for our accounts! If it stays like this 90% of my guild going to play something else… So there is no point for me to play this game any more…

Actually it’s the other way around. It’s the people who are angry here who are seeing things in black and white.

For example, I believe Anet should give a free characters lot with the free version and that’s not what I’m arguing about at all.

But I’m not the one saying Anet is lying or shady or covering up stuff. One of us is giving the benefit of the doubt, and one of us is making assumptions.

Therefore one of us is seeing things in black and white and I don’t think it’s the Knights.

Kill.3458:

maddoctor.2738:

Kill.3458:

For the final time the price isnt the issue, the issue resides in the value of the purchase. If ANet feels that the expansion is worth $50 id like to see what exactly makes it worth $50 before making an investment.

Exactly. We need to know:
a) what “Challenging Group Content” means (something instanced for guilds I hope)
b) how many maps will HoT have (I think we need at least 10 new maps, more if they are all SW sized)
c) how lengthy will the story of HoT be (at least the same as the entire LS2, hopefully longer)
d) obviously the rest of the specializations

People call HoT “just LS3”, I disagree, I call it an expanded Feature Pack, because we don’t know much about the length of the actual story yet.

The second fault in value being that clearly existing players are getting the short end of the stick, not to mention that if you purchased in the days before the FAQ change on 05/16/15 you were basically lied to. No matter what way you look at it we are being FORCED to repurchase the base game without getting an extra copy of the core game (HoT has essentially replaced the core game as its the only offering of GW2 being marketed by ANet on their site).

Correct me if I’m wrong but I think they are already giving refunds for those who purchased the game during the sales? At least, they’ve done it in the past, people who bought the game just before a sale got refunds so it makes sense to do it now too.

A. Something was added to the standard edition (*cough*Char. Slot/800 gems) to make up for the fact that existing players will not be getting a second copy of the core game.

There is a slight problem with adding new things to the standard edition. Players who already pre-purchased did so without knowing the extra character slot will be in the standard edition, which will make the Deluxe pointless. Those few extras it gives aren’t worth 25$. I believe they didn’t add an extra character slot to the Standard edition in order to have 3 packages. They could’ve easily had 2 packages only, Standard (with a char slot) and a Deluxe with the extras and 2000 gems at 75$. They added the “extra” package in the middle and increased gems to 4000 to create a third package, a package that shouldn’t exist.

I think a good way to reward loyalty is to give an extra character slot to all veteran players on their 3rd birthday (maybe only if they pre-purchased HoT?). I suspect HoT will be released either close to the 3rd birthday of the game, or at least after it, I don’t think it will be released sooner, so adding an extra character slot to veteran players will be in time for HoT and won’t change any of the current packages

Hmm that’s a very sound solution for the char. slot issue, but the title ‘veteran’ is something I personally define as someone with 1- 2 years experience in the game (joine during release, 2013/2014), so the birthday gift would have to be pretty universal or else the issue of fairness would rise again.

I said 3rd year because nobody reached their 3rd year yet, but adding slots retroactively since 1st or 2nd year could work too. The key here is that they don’t need to change the HoT packages to make people smile and be happy.

Also the refund only counts if you bought the game within 60 days and ANet was the retailer, it also may accompany the total termination of your current account. So it’s quite a scary solution unless you haven’t done much in the game since your purchase (1st week of purchase?)

Ouch. I didn’t know refunds worked like that.

To be fair, Maddoctor, most of us didn’t. But, to be doubly fair, the question of refunds didn’t really come up much until this latest fiasco.

There have been reports of players who kept their progress. I have no idea how truthful the reports are, but maybe?

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Agreed. I came to the same conclusion as Kill. It’s unfortunate, but facts are a funny thing.

Yes and the facts I provided were actually facts, even though you claimed they weren’t. Funny thing that.

Not all of your facts are factual. If you choose to mix misinformation in with your facts in a thread dont be surprised when people have trouble sorting them out.

The facts I labeled facts in the post in question were indeed facts. Everyone gets stuff wrong sometimes, but when I say something is a fact, it is.

You don’t define what is and is not fact. You’re stating things as fact that you could only know are fact if in fact you work for Anet. When I state fact I provide proof, which you never do.

I’m ok with the money we have to spend, but not for what they offers you in Standard/deluxe/ultimate as extra

to people that think devs deserve respect and we arent treatin em well, i say this :

http://i.imgur.com/1h0wSaL.png

for now its not about money. hell, not even about lack of content or whatever. its just about greed and having no respect for players. thats the main reason.

picture above should tell you to buy HoT or not if you are a decent person. and overall.. im just afraid Anet will become same like NCsoft. that company totally ruined Aion. greed greed greed. thats what destroyed that game. so i just honestly hope Anet wont become the same as those guys. i feel bad for those devs that truly worked their kitten off on the update.. and now some guy just tagged the prices and caused all this drama. :/ gl devs. you are still great and we love you. just not those that set the prices and do all these dirty things.

PS – enjoy again

http://i.imgur.com/1h0wSaL.png

Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained as stupidity (or a mjstake, or an oversight, etc).

maddoctor.2738:

Kill.3458:

For the final time the price isnt the issue, the issue resides in the value of the purchase. If ANet feels that the expansion is worth $50 id like to see what exactly makes it worth $50 before making an investment.

Exactly. We need to know:
a) what “Challenging Group Content” means (something instanced for guilds I hope)
b) how many maps will HoT have (I think we need at least 10 new maps, more if they are all SW sized)
c) how lengthy will the story of HoT be (at least the same as the entire LS2, hopefully longer)
d) obviously the rest of the specializations

People call HoT “just LS3”, I disagree, I call it an expanded Feature Pack, because we don’t know much about the length of the actual story yet.

This I totally agree with and is super sensible. I dont think its something worth getting mad over (no pun intended) because one can simply hold off pre-purchasing until they get the information they’re after. Its not like per-purchasing today gives you any advantages over pre-purchasing later or even not pre-purchasing at all.

maddoctor.2738:

The second fault in value being that clearly existing players are getting the short end of the stick, not to mention that if you purchased in the days before the FAQ change on 05/16/15 you were basically lied to. No matter what way you look at it we are being FORCED to repurchase the base game without getting an extra copy of the core game (HoT has essentially replaced the core game as its the only offering of GW2 being marketed by ANet on their site).

Correct me if I’m wrong but I think they are already giving refunds for those who purchased the game during the sales? At least, they’ve done it in the past, people who bought the game just before a sale got refunds so it makes sense to do it now too.

ITs actually better then that not only people got refunds but also were allowed to keep their account progress.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3aege1/a_follow_up_to_my_post_that_blew_up_out_of/

maddoctor.2738:

A. Something was added to the standard edition (*cough*Char. Slot/800 gems) to make up for the fact that existing players will not be getting a second copy of the core game.

There is a slight problem with adding new things to the standard edition. Players who already pre-purchased did so without knowing the extra character slot will be in the standard edition, which will make the Deluxe pointless. Those few extras it gives aren’t worth 25$. I believe they didn’t add an extra character slot to the Standard edition in order to have 3 packages. They could’ve easily had 2 packages only, Standard (with a char slot) and a Deluxe with the extras and 2000 gems at 75$. They added the “extra” package in the middle and increased gems to 4000 to create a third package, a package that shouldn’t exist.

I think a good way to reward loyalty is to give an extra character slot to all veteran players on their 3rd birthday (maybe only if they pre-purchased HoT?). I suspect HoT will be released either close to the 3rd birthday of the game, or at least after it, I don’t think it will be released sooner, so adding an extra character slot to veteran players will be in time for HoT and won’t change any of the current packages

It will be a bit expensive for arenanet but probably the only way to fix this and hopefully make most happy is to give an extra slot to all tiers.

IE standard gets 1 free slot, deluxe+ get 2 free slots.

Ashen.2907:

Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained as stupidity (or a mjstake, or an oversight, etc).

I like your razor.

Ashen.2907:

You are completely wrong about whether or not someone can honestly say HoT is worth $50 at this point.

We know enough for someone to potentially make that judgement for them-self.

Someone enjoying GW2 for what it is but not enough to spend more money without the addition of an additional tier of gear to work towards.

Or someone who isnt willing to spend more money without getting open world dueling.

Or open world PvP.

Or an increased stat benefit on ascnded gear compared to exotic

Or the removal of ascended gear.

Or the removal of the gem-gold market.

Or the addition of Cantha.

Or a change to ascended so that all characters get BiS by max level.

Or a change in content design removing vertical map design.

There are plenty of things that we know arent going to happen or are that could be sufficient for someone to find HoT not worth $50 to them.

Heck all it would take is for someone to not care for the region its set in.

Value isnt decided by whats not there, its decided by what is offered.

I wouldnt dream of say argueing with a restaurant owner that the steak they just gave me isnt worth the $50 they’re asking for it because it didnt include chocolate icecream, massaman curry and every other dish I love! No obviously I can only judge if the steam is worth $50 by what I am given in the plate. Now if on the menu all it states is steak naturally I have no way of saying weather $50 is justified. on the other hand if the menu lists the size of the steak, what sauces it comes with, what sides are included etc.. then I can make an informed decision. But until I am provided with that information I will no know the value, knowing whats not include doesnt help in that regard.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Agreed. I came to the same conclusion as Kill. It’s unfortunate, but facts are a funny thing.

Yes and the facts I provided were actually facts, even though you claimed they weren’t. Funny thing that.

Not all of your facts are factual. If you choose to mix misinformation in with your facts in a thread dont be surprised when people have trouble sorting them out.

The facts I labeled facts in the post in question were indeed facts. Everyone gets stuff wrong sometimes, but when I say something is a fact, it is.

You don’t define what is and is not fact. You’re stating things as fact that you could only know are fact if in fact you work for Anet. When I state fact I provide proof, which you never do.

Every fact in my post was a fact. It’s a fact that Guild Wars 2 is sold as a buy to play game. How is that not a fact.

Nothing I said required inside information for it to be a fact.

I’ve found a vid that exactly represents my thoughts on the HoT pricing policy.

Vayne.8563:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Agreed. I came to the same conclusion as Kill. It’s unfortunate, but facts are a funny thing.

Yes and the facts I provided were actually facts, even though you claimed they weren’t. Funny thing that.

Not all of your facts are factual. If you choose to mix misinformation in with your facts in a thread dont be surprised when people have trouble sorting them out.

The facts I labeled facts in the post in question were indeed facts. Everyone gets stuff wrong sometimes, but when I say something is a fact, it is.

You don’t define what is and is not fact. You’re stating things as fact that you could only know are fact if in fact you work for Anet. When I state fact I provide proof, which you never do.

Every fact in my post was a fact. It’s a fact that Guild Wars 2 is sold as a buy to play game. How is that not a fact.

Nothing I said required inside information for it to be a fact.

Actually GW2 is a hybrid B2P cash shop game. GW1 was a far different model and though it has a cash shop it’s nearly a pure B2P. If it can be argued it isn’t fact.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Vayne.8563:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Agreed. I came to the same conclusion as Kill. It’s unfortunate, but facts are a funny thing.

Yes and the facts I provided were actually facts, even though you claimed they weren’t. Funny thing that.

Not all of your facts are factual. If you choose to mix misinformation in with your facts in a thread dont be surprised when people have trouble sorting them out.

The facts I labeled facts in the post in question were indeed facts. Everyone gets stuff wrong sometimes, but when I say something is a fact, it is.

You don’t define what is and is not fact. You’re stating things as fact that you could only know are fact if in fact you work for Anet. When I state fact I provide proof, which you never do.

Every fact in my post was a fact. It’s a fact that Guild Wars 2 is sold as a buy to play game. How is that not a fact.

Nothing I said required inside information for it to be a fact.

Actually GW2 is a hybrid B2P cash shop game. GW1 was a far different model and though it has a cash shop it’s nearly a pure B2P. If it can be argued it isn’t fact.

It being B2P is a fact. You buy it, you can play it, you don’t have to spend a dime in the store and most people probably don’t. Some have said so.

Dave.6819:

to people that think devs deserve respect and we arent treatin em well, i say this :

http://i.imgur.com/1h0wSaL.png

for now its not about money. hell, not even about lack of content or whatever. its just about greed and having no respect for players. thats the main reason.

picture above should tell you to buy HoT or not if you are a decent person. and overall.. im just afraid Anet will become same like NCsoft. that company totally ruined Aion. greed greed greed. thats what destroyed that game. so i just honestly hope Anet wont become the same as those guys. i feel bad for those devs that truly worked their kitten off on the update.. and now some guy just tagged the prices and caused all this drama. :/ gl devs. you are still great and we love you. just not those that set the prices and do all these dirty things.

PS – enjoy again

http://i.imgur.com/1h0wSaL.png

and to that I say this:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3a95r8/to_those_who_said_anet_will_support_people_who/

if that was really about greed why are they converting people for free?
and if you try to play the because of the uproar card think again they said they’d do that over 2 days ago before this upoar actually started:

[–]ProHealsMichael Henninger 70 points 2 days ago
We’ll most certainly help anyone out who just bought the core game and would like to make the change to a HoT pre-purchase.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3a46s4/preorders_for_heart_of_thorns_are_now_live/cs96lfu

Vayne.8563:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Vayne.8563:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Agreed. I came to the same conclusion as Kill. It’s unfortunate, but facts are a funny thing.

Yes and the facts I provided were actually facts, even though you claimed they weren’t. Funny thing that.

Not all of your facts are factual. If you choose to mix misinformation in with your facts in a thread dont be surprised when people have trouble sorting them out.

The facts I labeled facts in the post in question were indeed facts. Everyone gets stuff wrong sometimes, but when I say something is a fact, it is.

You don’t define what is and is not fact. You’re stating things as fact that you could only know are fact if in fact you work for Anet. When I state fact I provide proof, which you never do.

Every fact in my post was a fact. It’s a fact that Guild Wars 2 is sold as a buy to play game. How is that not a fact.

Nothing I said required inside information for it to be a fact.

Actually GW2 is a hybrid B2P cash shop game. GW1 was a far different model and though it has a cash shop it’s nearly a pure B2P. If it can be argued it isn’t fact.

It being B2P is a fact. You buy it, you can play it, you don’t have to spend a dime in the store and most people probably don’t. Some have said so.

“Some have said so” anecdotal

What “community”?

All these forums have become is a cesspool of complaints with obvious agendas. “Bring back Cantha and Elona”, “Why should I have to buy this cool thing with gems” “Nerf this class because it rolled me in WvW” and on and on and on.

A-Net is a company, pure and simple. They have to make money in order to maintain the game, bring you new content, fix bugs and generally keep us amused. Gem store items are a staple of that as well as Character slots, Transfers, and Bank slots.

They gave you 3 seasons of Living World FOR FREE (some bad, some good, some great) as well as a host of QOL things.

$50 is not unreasonable to pay for a game that will guarantee at least 50 hours of content, in a day when the average console game is $60 and gives you 8 hours at best.

Just settle down:)

I was given nothing I paid max price for that content.

Galen Grey.4709:

Ashen.2907:

You are completely wrong about whether or not someone can honestly say HoT is worth $50 at this point.

We know enough for someone to potentially make that judgement for them-self.

Someone enjoying GW2 for what it is but not enough to spend more money without the addition of an additional tier of gear to work towards.

Or someone who isnt willing to spend more money without getting open world dueling.

Or open world PvP.

Or an increased stat benefit on ascnded gear compared to exotic

Or the removal of ascended gear.

Or the removal of the gem-gold market.

Or the addition of Cantha.

Or a change to ascended so that all characters get BiS by max level.

Or a change in content design removing vertical map design.

There are plenty of things that we know arent going to happen or are that could be sufficient for someone to find HoT not worth $50 to them.

Heck all it would take is for someone to not care for the region its set in.

Value isnt decided by whats not there, its decided by what is offered.

I wouldnt dream of say argueing with a restaurant owner that the steak they just gave me isnt worth the $50 they’re asking for it because it didnt include chocolate icecream, massaman curry and every other dish I love! No obviously I can only judge if the steam is worth $50 by what I am given in the plate. Now if on the menu all it states is steak naturally I have no way of saying weather $50 is justified. on the other hand if the menu lists the size of the steak, what sauces it comes with, what sides are included etc.. then I can make an informed decision. But until I am provided with that information I will no know the value, knowing whats not include doesnt help in that regard.

Vayne said that not a single person could honestly say that HoT was not worth $50. I replied to that. Now worth is subjective so we are talking about worth $50 to a given player.

A given player can very readily, accurately, and honestly, say that a game that does not provide me with X is not worth $50 to me. It does not matter what it includes if it does not include the only thing(s) the consumer is willing to pay top dollar for.

As an example, HoT could include hundreds of maps, gvg, dozens of fully customizeable guild halls, a free pizza, a thousand gold, a dozen character slots, one of every dye, a thousand gems, every minipet…and it would not be worth $50 to me if I dont have ascended gear on my main without having to craft. Not worth $5.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Vayne.8563:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Vayne.8563:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Agreed. I came to the same conclusion as Kill. It’s unfortunate, but facts are a funny thing.

Yes and the facts I provided were actually facts, even though you claimed they weren’t. Funny thing that.

Not all of your facts are factual. If you choose to mix misinformation in with your facts in a thread dont be surprised when people have trouble sorting them out.

The facts I labeled facts in the post in question were indeed facts. Everyone gets stuff wrong sometimes, but when I say something is a fact, it is.

You don’t define what is and is not fact. You’re stating things as fact that you could only know are fact if in fact you work for Anet. When I state fact I provide proof, which you never do.

Every fact in my post was a fact. It’s a fact that Guild Wars 2 is sold as a buy to play game. How is that not a fact.

Nothing I said required inside information for it to be a fact.

Actually GW2 is a hybrid B2P cash shop game. GW1 was a far different model and though it has a cash shop it’s nearly a pure B2P. If it can be argued it isn’t fact.

It being B2P is a fact. You buy it, you can play it, you don’t have to spend a dime in the store and most people probably don’t. Some have said so.

“Some have said so” anecdotal

Let me help you there:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Don-t-Pre-Purchase-HoT-100-000-Loss/5163045

“Btw, I did always vote against gems by never buying any of those in-game. If you want to vote against anything that I would suggest voting against that.”

not anecdotal anymore

OMG can we stop using analogies to describe our argument. Lazy tool for a weak mind.

@Galen Grey hello and welcome to the game. Your experience is not universal as the game generates revenue from the store.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne said that not a single person could honestly say that HoT was not worth $50. I replied to that. Now worth is subjective so we are talking about worth $50 to a given player.

A given player can very readily, accurately, and honestly, say that a game that does not provide me with X is not worth $50 to me. It does not matter what it includes if it does not include the only thing(s) the consumer is willing to pay top dollar for.

As an example, HoT could include hundreds of maps, gvg, dozens of fully customizeable guild halls, a free pizza, a thousand gold, a dozen character slots, one of every dye, a thousand gems, every minipet…and it would not be worth $50 to me if I dont have ascended gear on my main without having to craft. Not worth $5.

okey I see what happened here, its actually a language problem.

Vayne said as you said: “Vayne said that not a single person could honestly say that HoT was not worth $50.”

That is not the same as saying Its not worth $50 to me. Example I may not like Game X so I would never pay $50 for it like you said but if game X inlcudes include hundreds of maps, gvg, dozens of fully customizeable guild halls, a free pizza, a thousand gold, a dozen character slots, one of every dye, a thousand gems, every minipet I couldn’t objectively say its not worth the $50 asking price.

Even so Gw2 didnt have any of the things you mentioned yet people bought it how can any of them claim none of the features Gw2 has are worth a single cent? which brings us back to your statement. Even for someone who has paid just $10 for the core game they cant say what HoT will be worth to them based on what they know isnt going to be included because clearly they value other things too (whatever was included in the core game) which in turn we still dont know what and how much is going to be included in HoT

Trajan.4953:

OMG can we stop using analogies to describe our argument. Lazy tool for a weak mind.

You can’t make this up. Thank you.

Aidenwolf.5964:

@Galen Grey hello and welcome to the game. Your experience is not universal as the game generates revenue from the store.

Ok I follow now… what I linked is not something I said, its something another player said.
but even so Vayne didnt say everyone has said its possible to play the game without ever spending a single Gem, he said some have said so, you called it anecdotal I found you someone who made that claim. Even if he is the only person to ever refuse to pay a single gem and he’s not: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/How-much-have-you-spent-on-Gems/first

that still makes Vayne’s statement factual.

Edit: woke up and understood the post so edited to reply properly

Galen Grey.4709:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne said that not a single person could honestly say that HoT was not worth $50. I replied to that. Now worth is subjective so we are talking about worth $50 to a given player.

A given player can very readily, accurately, and honestly, say that a game that does not provide me with X is not worth $50 to me. It does not matter what it includes if it does not include the only thing(s) the consumer is willing to pay top dollar for.

As an example, HoT could include hundreds of maps, gvg, dozens of fully customizeable guild halls, a free pizza, a thousand gold, a dozen character slots, one of every dye, a thousand gems, every minipet…and it would not be worth $50 to me if I dont have ascended gear on my main without having to craft. Not worth $5.

okey I see what happened here, its actually a language problem.

Vayne said as you said: “Vayne said that not a single person could honestly say that HoT was not worth $50.”

That is not the same as saying Its not worth $50 to me. Example I may not like Game X so I would never pay $50 for it like you said but if game X inlcudes include hundreds of maps, gvg, dozens of fully customizeable guild halls, a free pizza, a thousand gold, a dozen character slots, one of every dye, a thousand gems, every minipet I couldn’t objectively say its not worth the $50 asking price.

Even so Gw2 didnt have any of the things you mentioned yet people bought it how can any of them claim none of the features Gw2 has are worth a single cent? which brings us back to your statement. Even for someone who has paid just $10 for the core game they cant say what HoT will be worth to them based on what they know isnt going to be included because clearly they value other things too (whatever was included in the core game) which in turn we still dont know what and how much is going to be included in HoT

Precisely. Thanks for looking it up, I figured you came in halfway through.

Galen Grey.4709:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne said that not a single person could honestly say that HoT was not worth $50. I replied to that. Now worth is subjective so we are talking about worth $50 to a given player.

A given player can very readily, accurately, and honestly, say that a game that does not provide me with X is not worth $50 to me. It does not matter what it includes if it does not include the only thing(s) the consumer is willing to pay top dollar for.

As an example, HoT could include hundreds of maps, gvg, dozens of fully customizeable guild halls, a free pizza, a thousand gold, a dozen character slots, one of every dye, a thousand gems, every minipet…and it would not be worth $50 to me if I dont have ascended gear on my main without having to craft. Not worth $5.

okey I see what happened here, its actually a language problem.

Vayne said as you said: “Vayne said that not a single person could honestly say that HoT was not worth $50.”

That is not the same as saying Its not worth $50 to me. Example I may not like Game X so I would never pay $50 for it like you said but if game X inlcudes include hundreds of maps, gvg, dozens of fully customizeable guild halls, a free pizza, a thousand gold, a dozen character slots, one of every dye, a thousand gems, every minipet I couldn’t objectively say its not worth the $50 asking price.

Even so Gw2 didnt have any of the things you mentioned yet people bought it how can any of them claim none of the features Gw2 has are worth a single cent? which brings us back to your statement. Even for someone who has paid just $10 for the core game they cant say what HoT will be worth to them based on what they know isnt going to be included because clearly they value other things too (whatever was included in the core game) which in turn we still dont know what and how much is going to be included in HoT

Worth is always “to me” as there is no such thing as objective worth.

LOL you got that one:)

Galen Grey.4709:

Aidenwolf.5964:

@Galen Grey hello and welcome to the game. Your experience is not universal as the game generates revenue from the store.

Sorry I dont follow but thanks for the welcome even though its kinda 3 years later.

I meant the Vayne vs. Everyone game.

Vayne is cool, back off or I’ll sick my Bear Bow Ranger on you.

Trajan.4953:

Vayne is cool, back off or I’ll sick my Bear Bow Ranger on you.

Bear Bow, is tis the new Legendary!? The Unicorn and the Flower vine one were getting kinda old lol

Trajan.4953:

What “community”?

All these forums have become is a cesspool of complaints with obvious agendas. “Bring back Cantha and Elona”, “Why should I have to buy this cool thing with gems” “Nerf this class because it rolled me in WvW” and on and on and on.

A-Net is a company, pure and simple. They have to make money in order to maintain the game, bring you new content, fix bugs and generally keep us amused. Gem store items are a staple of that as well as Character slots, Transfers, and Bank slots.

They gave you 3 seasons of Living World FOR FREE (some bad, some good, some great) as well as a host of QOL things.

$50 is not unreasonable to pay for a game that will guarantee at least 50 hours of content, in a day when the average console game is $60 and gives you 8 hours at best.

Just settle down:)

Why do you compare an mmo to a console game ? If so compare it to an RPG like the witcher which also has 100 – 200h worth of playing if not more with the FREE Dlc being released.Stop acting like anet is constantly giving you kitten for free,everything released is gemstore gemstore gemstore,they didnt release a proper set of gear since day one,Only Gemstore outfits cus they wanna earn money right.You forget the fact that loads of ppl has spend a ton of money on the gemstore making these LS Possible,you thinking you get that kitten for free is you being ignorant.That Free is made possible due to our purchases.I feel betrayed for owning gw2,and anet forcing me to pay again for gw2 + Hot.. yes i truly see it like this.Instead of giving me the chance to buy Hot Stand-alone,if so i would have nothing to complain about.Im not the kind of guy that bends over like that.Greed gets them all in the end.

Ashen.2907:

Worth is always “to me” as there is no such thing as objective worth.

of course there is. That is something whoever made the product determines for they are the only ones who know what went into the product cost wise as well as a fair markup. What worth is to you is simply an opinion not real worth.

Things dont suddenly become worthless just cause you’re not interested in them, if that were the case anyone who isnt interest in something would be able to get it for free.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Galen Grey.4709:

Aidenwolf.5964:

@Galen Grey hello and welcome to the game. Your experience is not universal as the game generates revenue from the store.

Sorry I dont follow but thanks for the welcome even though its kinda 3 years later.

I meant the Vayne vs. Everyone game.

yeah sorry figured out your reply later… here is the proper reply:
.
Ok I follow now… what I linked is not something I said, its something another player said.
but even so Vayne didnt say everyone has said its possible to play the game without ever spending a single Gem, he said some have said so, you called it anecdotal I found you someone who made that claim. Even if he is the only person to ever refuse to pay a single gem and he’s not: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/How-much-have-you-spent-on-Gems/first
that still makes Vayne’s statement factual.
Edit: woke up and understood the post so edited to reply properly

Galen Grey.4709:

ITs actually better then that not only people got refunds but also were allowed to keep their account progress.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3aege1/a_follow_up_to_my_post_that_blew_up_out_of/

That’s cool, so that part of the HoT price argument can go away. The part about players who bought during the sale due to the misleading FAQ. It was still a bad thing to do and they DID lie, but at least they ARE fixing that mess.

It will be a bit expensive for arenanet but probably the only way to fix this and hopefully make most happy is to give an extra slot to all tiers.

IE standard gets 1 free slot, deluxe+ get 2 free slots.

How about Standard gets 1 free slot, deluxe gets 1 free slot + 800 gems. Although I still think giving Veterans a free slot after reaching a certain amount of play time is a better way to reward loyalty. That way they won’t have to change their HoT packages which might upset those who already got them, leading to even more refunds.

Honestly, if they add a free slot to the standard then the deluxe won’t sound very worthy of 25$ so if they put a char slot in Standard, I expect loads of players who got Deluxe would want to downgrade because let’s be realistic here, lots of Deluxe buyers got Deluxe for the char slot. I can’t back it up and have no data about it, but that’s what I think.

Galen Grey.4709:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Galen Grey.4709:

Aidenwolf.5964:

@Galen Grey hello and welcome to the game. Your experience is not universal as the game generates revenue from the store.

Sorry I dont follow but thanks for the welcome even though its kinda 3 years later.

I meant the Vayne vs. Everyone game.

yeah sorry figured out your reply later… here is the proper reply:
.
Ok I follow now… what I linked is not something I said, its something another player said.
but even so Vayne didnt say everyone has said its possible to play the game without ever spending a single Gem, he said some have said so, you called it anecdotal I found you someone who made that claim. Even if he is the only person to ever refuse to pay a single gem and he’s not: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/How-much-have-you-spent-on-Gems/first
that still makes Vayne’s statement factual.
Edit: woke up and understood the post so edited to reply properly

Actually that’s not how proof works but I admire your spirit!

Pimsley.6087:

You’re only punishing yourselves. They aren’t going to change their prices. Get better jobs if this is too steep a price.

They will change. People run everything and if the people don’t get what they want they wont comply which ends up as a huge loss for any company. Simple as that.

Galen Grey.4709:

ITs actually better then that not only people got refunds but also were allowed to keep their account progress.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3aege1/a_follow_up_to_my_post_that_blew_up_out_of/

It is not better than that.

That reddit thread was one person who had to be tenacious and keep persuading support that he shouldn’t be punished through account termination.

Their standard response to people looking for an upgrade is the typical “30day, account will be terminated, blah, blah” and some people have already taken it.

Anet should have been doing that from the start, but they haven’t.

SkyFallsInThunder.8257:

I’ve found a vid that exactly represents my thoughts on the HoT pricing policy.

wow! The evidence are true. I find it very funny also by the man laughs Great Job!

" Most humor state a bitter truth "

Caedmon.6798:

Trajan.4953:

What “community”?

All these forums have become is a cesspool of complaints with obvious agendas. “Bring back Cantha and Elona”, “Why should I have to buy this cool thing with gems” “Nerf this class because it rolled me in WvW” and on and on and on.

A-Net is a company, pure and simple. They have to make money in order to maintain the game, bring you new content, fix bugs and generally keep us amused. Gem store items are a staple of that as well as Character slots, Transfers, and Bank slots.

They gave you 3 seasons of Living World FOR FREE (some bad, some good, some great) as well as a host of QOL things.

$50 is not unreasonable to pay for a game that will guarantee at least 50 hours of content, in a day when the average console game is $60 and gives you 8 hours at best.

Just settle down:)

Why do you compare an mmo to a console game ? If so compare it to an RPG like the witcher which also has 100 – 200h worth of playing if not more with the FREE Dlc being released.Stop acting like anet is constantly giving you kitten for free,everything released is gemstore gemstore gemstore,they didnt release a proper set of gear since day one,Only Gemstore outfits cus they wanna earn money right.

this isnt true. Gear released after day 1 not tied to the cash shop: Asended gear, , truck load of back pieces, mutliple shoulder, gloves, boots and helmets. Glorious + Glorious hero armor set, Radiant Armor set, hellfire armor set, Hexed outfit, Carapace / Bio luminescent armor set, A lot of Champion weapon skins, amberite weapon set, Sunless weapon set, twilight assault weapon set, guild commendation weapon set, Ascended weapon skins, sab and winter weapon skins

to that there are also the Sovereign, aetherized weapons, dragon jade and sclerite weapon set. While they are now exclusively cash shop you could earn them in game through game play for a month or so.

So no Arenanet were never exclusively about the gem shop, they strike a balance. Not a perfect balance mind you but its definitely unfair to state they always only released new skins in the cash shop cause it is far from true.

Caedmon.6798:

You forget the fact that loads of ppl has spend a ton of money on the gemstore making these LS Possible,you thinking you get that kitten for free is you being ignorant.That Free is made possible due to our purchases.I feel betrayed for owning gw2,and anet forcing me to pay again for gw2 + Hot.. yes i truly see it like this.Instead of giving me the chance to buy Hot Stand-alone,if so i would have nothing to complain about.Im not the kind of guy that bends over like that.Greed gets them all in the end.

Just cause people buy stuff from the cash shop it doesnt mean the content was not free. You paid for whatever you bought not the content, simply speaking people who chose never to spend a single cent still got the same content for free which in itself makes it free.

And no arenanet didnt force you to buy the game again together with Hot, Arenanet gave it to you for free, its you who are forcing yourself to see it that way.

I prepurchased the expansion without noticing the whole “core game included” clause. I did it because in the 10 years I’ve been Anet’s customer I never once felt like I’m getting a bad deal, and I just flat out trusted the company.

But for the first time in those 10 years I kinda feel cheated now (even though I’m fully aware it was my own fault for not reading through the offer carefully), not because new players are getting more value for their money, but because veteran players are getting treated differently, like we’re something that is a given, instead of a precious resource they should be building upon. I won’t look for a refund, because I doubt I’d even get one, nor will I stop playing, but I’ll definitely look closer next time I buy anything, since Anet stopped being the company I can just trust with my money without a second thought.