Guild Wars 2

Awbee.8405:

nGumball.1283:

So you used to have 15 traits and now he has 20? no offense but your comment is there just to create drama and the people who upvoted you either don’t play the game are pure haters cause the post doesn’t even make sense.

You are the one that doesn’t understand the new system. The traits are not just condensed from 5 points to 1 trait, they are delayed until level 30. At level 11, you started gaining traits, which means you got a trait at 16, 21, 26, 31, 36, 41, etc. So a level 41 player had access to 6 traits already. Actual traits, not just trait points. Traits that he could select based on his playstyle preferences, traits that made playing the game and leveling more interesting. (“Do I want to produce clones when I dodge? Do I want to get vigor when I use a shout?”)

Now, this same player on level 41 has access to 2 traits. Cause he got a trait at 30, and one at 36. TWO traits. He used to have many interesting gameplay choices by that point already, he had experienced compelling character and playstyle progression already. Now he has access to two godkitten traits, just like a 21 character previously did. You now feel as powerful as a level 20 character when you’re level 40, and your playstyle is as interesting and varied as back when you were level 20.

This is very clearly a push for the hardcore grindy oriented Asian market. I hope it’ll get them enough revenue to cancel out the mass exodus of Western players who came to this game under the promise that there won’t be boring grind.

I do understand it very well and I can’t understand how the said player who is complaining had 15 traits before the patch and suddenly got 20 after it and yet complains. Meaning, that he commented without even bothering to understand the system and he just posted a random number to support his rage or he basically leveled up afte the patch but due to not understanding the system thought 20 points is less than 15.

Otherwise, while you may think it is going for boring grind, other may think it is a way to take it easy for a while and understand the game isntead of rushing to 80 with everything being introduced at the same time.

People reach 80 without udnerstanding anything in the game, perhaps introducing stuff step by step is a solution and while you may see it as grind, others may see it as challenging where you need to have a harder time, putting more effort into choosing ur weapons and skills for a better outcome.

PS. My bad, didn’t notice the ’’trait’’ not ‘’trait-points’’ reference. Sorry.

nGumball.1283:

People reach 80 without udnerstanding anything in the game, perhaps introducing stuff step by step is a solution and while you may see it as grind, others may see it as challenging where you need to have a harder time, putting more effort into choosing ur weapons and skills for a better outcome.

We all started playing the game not very long ago. It’s only been 1,5 years. I remember the beta weekends as if they were just last week. I do not remember ever struggling to understand the concept of traits, or how they work. I do not remember ever being irritated or confused by the “abundance of choice”.

I remember being very pleasantly surprised by the choice and variety in the trait system, and very very pleasantly surprised about the fact that I got to spend a trait point every level. I used to be able to do that in WoW, until they botched their talent system too.

As for new players, most of them don’t seem to like it, if this thread and complaints in map chat are any indication. But then again, these are Western players, of course they’re not going to like an increase in boring grind. They’re likely not the target audience here.

nGumball.1283:

PS. My bad, didn’t notice the ’’trait’’ not ‘’trait-points’’ reference. Sorry.

S’alright. It’s confusing. They turned an easy to understand (1 trait point every level, new trait every 5 levels, gradual progression from level 11 on) system into a very complicated one, that at the same time manages to be more boring and unrewarding. Quite the feat.

One thing a lot of complainers about the new trait system overlook is that they now have the ability to retrait on demand and FOR FREE.

For some players who only roll a main, that means they’ve paid a minimum 3G to have access to lvl 80 traits. For some, like me, who have more than 1 character that has been leveled to 80 that runs up pretty quickly. I’ve got 5 characters, that’s 15G to get the books, one of my guildies has 11 characters at lvl 80, that’s 33G. I’m ignoring the previous retrait cost as that’s too variable and on average too negligible, to factor in.
I don’t think I’ve seen a single post where players who leveled up under the old system have cried out in protest with demands for their spent gold on leveling to be refunded.
“WHAT?! Leveling to 80 is free?! and free retraits to boot!? GIMME BACK MY GOLD!”

As for leveling up, as far as I know, there’s been no nerf to the experience gained for doing anything as before. So yes, the threshold at which you get traits has been increased but ask some veteran players and I wouldn’t be too surprised if they’ll generally be of the opinion that the traits didn’t really a huge amount to help you survive significantly more whether you had them or not. (Some may disagree, YMMV)

As for leveling up speed? My first character took me over 2 weeks to get to level 80, partly due to IRL time constraints and partly because I spent a huge amount of time in the lower level areas exploring everything, vistas, POI’s, doing hearts, joining other players in events. By the time I got to my 5th lvl 80 character, I’d worked out how to effectively power level him without grinding anything. That took less than 70 hrs total, that’s more than a level per hour.

Bear in mind, I’m not aiming to get anyone to play my way, but it’s some perspective, on leveling at least, that many seem not to take notice of

Awbee.8405:

nGumball.1283:

People reach 80 without udnerstanding anything in the game, perhaps introducing stuff step by step is a solution and while you may see it as grind, others may see it as challenging where you need to have a harder time, putting more effort into choosing ur weapons and skills for a better outcome.

We all started playing the game not very long ago. It’s only been 1,5 years. I remember the beta weekends as if they were just last week. I do not remember ever struggling to understand the concept of traits, or how they work. I do not remember ever being irritated or confused by the “abundance of choice”.

I remember being very pleasantly surprised by the choice and variety in the trait system, and very very pleasantly surprised about the fact that I got to spend a trait point every level. I used to be able to do that in WoW, until they botched their talent system too.

As for new players, most of them don’t seem to like it, if this thread and complaints in map chat are any indication. But then again, these are Western players, of course they’re not going to like an increase in boring grind. They’re likely not the target audience here.

nGumball.1283:

PS. My bad, didn’t notice the ’’trait’’ not ‘’trait-points’’ reference. Sorry.

S’alright. It’s confusing. They turned an easy to understand (1 trait point every level, new trait every 5 levels, gradual progression from level 11 on) system into a very complicated one, that at the same time manages to be more boring and unrewarding. Quite the feat.

How did WoW ruin its talent system? How was getting +2% to damage per point interesting? What they did was bake in all of those stat and damage increases into a specialization you pick at level 10. Talent points are every 15 levels but you still unlock class skills as you level. You don’t get situations where you have to grind for 30 levels without getting anything.

Compared to this, GW2’s system seems poorly thought out and incomplete.

Weylin.6478:

I know a lot of people are upset with some of the changes, but try and understand the reasons from the developer point of view and allow for some things to be readjusted as necessary.

some of the changes that people aren’t liking will possibly be further tweaked with hotfixes, just give it time.

The best you all can do is provide calm and detailed feedback like some have already been doing. It is possible that they had overlooked some things and all of you will do a better job at finding the issues than a small team would be able to.

Reinstalled SWTOR, Heading back to a galaxy far far away. MTFBWY

Awbee.8405:

Now, this same player on level 41 has access to 2 traits. Cause he got a trait at 30, and one at 36. TWO traits. He used to have many interesting gameplay choices by that point already, he had experienced compelling character and playstyle progression already. Now he has access to two godkitten traits, just like a 21 character previously did. You now feel as powerful as a level 20 character when you’re level 40, and your playstyle is as interesting and varied as back when you were level 20.

Compelling character and playstyle progression? I wonder what class you are playing. Selecting between choices like, “Critical hits have a chance to apply vulerability” or “Bleeds you apply last longer” didn’t seem to be that game changing until much later in the game when I started choosing groups of them that reinforced each other and worked together to support a play style and strategy.

Don’t ragequit? Take 2 months to farm old content to find 250g and 90 laurels to re-gear instead…? No thanks…

Azrael.4960:

One thing a lot of complainers about the new trait system overlook is that they now have the ability to retrait on demand and FOR FREE.

Yes, that is nice. Why, hovewer, Anet seems to feel that no positive change to the game should be introduced without getting saddled with modifications that negatively impact it to the point where lot of people would rather not get the change at all?

You have visited the trait guy right? its now extremely expensive to buy all those traits and eats up sp like popcorn. New chars are pretty shafted. Its more expensive, slower, far more boring.

All the people saying, Yippee – we can re-trait for free, it’s wonderful! Question for you: Come on, how often do you re-trait your toon? Sure, I’d do it going in and out of WvW, but the paltry 3.6 silver was no big deal. A way around it was to level up another toon to 80, same class different build. I’ve 14 level 80’s, one of each class,
Now I look at my lowly 31 lvl mesmer who had 2 adept traits now with 1 minor trait and wonder how much I want to level her up. Not too sure about that. Would delete her, but she’s for a guild I’m in (already deleted her predecessor who was 80 because I didn’t like her looks).
Anyway, I can see how daunting this would be to alot of players. Personally, I don’t like Anet’s “new” idea of horizontal progression. Have a feeling many will tire of this.

dkspins.4670:

All the people saying, Yippee – we can re-trait for free, it’s wonderful! Question for you: Come on, how often do you re-trait your toon? Sure, I’d do it going in and out of WvW, but the paltry 3.6 silver was no big deal. A way around it was to level up another toon to 80, same class different build. I’ve 14 level 80’s, one of each class,
Now I look at my lowly 31 lvl mesmer who had 2 adept traits now with 1 minor trait and wonder how much I want to level her up. Not too sure about that. Would delete her, but she’s for a guild I’m in (already deleted her predecessor who was 80 because I didn’t like her looks).
Anyway, I can see how daunting this would be to alot of players. Personally, I don’t like Anet’s “new” idea of horizontal progression. Have a feeling many will tire of this.

Not everyone has the time to create 14 characters, gear them up, delete one and create another.
Also, the cool thing about the new trait system is that you can retrait everywhere, instead of having to visit a trainer.

Awbee.8405:

nGumball.1283:

People reach 80 without udnerstanding anything in the game, perhaps introducing stuff step by step is a solution and while you may see it as grind, others may see it as challenging where you need to have a harder time, putting more effort into choosing ur weapons and skills for a better outcome.

We all started playing the game not very long ago. It’s only been 1,5 years. I remember the beta weekends as if they were just last week. I do not remember ever struggling to understand the concept of traits, or how they work. I do not remember ever being irritated or confused by the “abundance of choice”.

I remember being very pleasantly surprised by the choice and variety in the trait system, and very very pleasantly surprised about the fact that I got to spend a trait point every level. I used to be able to do that in WoW, until they botched their talent system too.

As for new players, most of them don’t seem to like it, if this thread and complaints in map chat are any indication. But then again, these are Western players, of course they’re not going to like an increase in boring grind. They’re likely not the target audience here.

nGumball.1283:

PS. My bad, didn’t notice the ’’trait’’ not ‘’trait-points’’ reference. Sorry.

S’alright. It’s confusing. They turned an easy to understand (1 trait point every level, new trait every 5 levels, gradual progression from level 11 on) system into a very complicated one, that at the same time manages to be more boring and unrewarding. Quite the feat.

I’m going to be that guy that really never uses trait systems in any game. I seriously went to eighty forgetting about my trait points most of the time. I’m convinced that I still had unassigned traits.

I just don’t like the system in any game. I didn’t like it in WoW, don’t really care for it in LoL, absolutely forgot about it here.

I’m sure people are all over it, but I was never excited about unlocking trait points in RPGs, never bothered to use them until I had to, never really found fun in different builds. Someone else doing the work and putting their build up for FoTM? I’ll try it and then forget about changing anything until it’s no longer FoTM. Don’t really care to play around with it and analyze every number.

Unlocking skills? Yes. Trait points? Meh.

Treebeard The Swift.9620:

You have visited the trait guy right? its now extremely expensive to buy all those traits and eats up sp like popcorn. New chars are pretty shafted. Its more expensive, slower, far more boring.

As with Ascended Accessories for 40 laurels and 50 Ectos versus Guild Commendations and 5 gold, the more expensive, alternative means is meant to point you towards the ANet-preferred method of gaining the traits — by completing content.

i dont know what todo now, i may be movin on this patch was too much. well many love the changes i do not. pvp and pve almost merged, redoing builds and traits, world boss timer changes, the wardrobe, zerk nerf, dungeons way to kitten easy now. and not that it affects me i dont agree with how they making it harder for new players to lvl to 80. :/ just me though anet cant please everyone. im just sad and venting on forums.