Guild Wars 2

Concerning: Dynamic Leveling AKA Down-Leveling

Arena Net: “The goal is to more accurately reflect the attributes you should have at that level for a similarly geared character. While this will make some areas harder, our goal is to make all areas of Guild Wars 2 exciting and fun for players of any level. We also want players of all levels to feel like their time is well spent and rewarding in any map they go to.”

Well it doesn’t work! It makes me feel like all the time I put into my character is Pointless, because I’m always struggling. The whole point of any game like this, is to become so powerful that no one can touch you. Especially in PVE; which I find myself soloing on frequently -all thanks to the “Personal” story thing that you all thought was so nifty but most of us hate in one way or another- this down-leveling as I’m fond of calling it, is downright frustrating.

“Dynamic leveling.” Bah. You don’t Dynamically up-level me when I run into monsters, seemingly at random, that are well above my level. Why should Monsters get it so easy? They never have to worry about some ‘Veteran" player just wondering around their area, twenty levels higher than them. It’s not fair. Let me bully monsters. That’s all I want to do.

I can’t express in words how infuriating it is to find myself having my hide handed to me by creatures that are ten levels below me, because I’ve been arbitrarily down-leveled to well beneath them, often by two or three levels. REALLY?!?! One of the things I used to love about Guild Wars, was that: Once I acquired my awesome AOE skills I could cluster enemies and then make it rain. I felt all powerful. It was freaking awesome and it was well deserved, I earned the right to feel awesome. In Guild Wars 2 there is NO hope for this.

I don’t know how many times this has happened:
I’ll be five or more levels above a small horde of monsters (3 or 5) that I’ve gathered up and then start my string of devastating attacks only to be utterly destroyed within seconds, it’s at this point when I realize that I’ve been NERFED. Me THE PLAYER has been Nerfed.

I get what you’re trying to do. I understand the entire point of this system but I really think it’s failing at this time. I Do think it can be improved, maybe even to a point where it could be useful And fun. All of the areas have level indicators posted on the map, for example Snowden Drifts is listed as a 15 – 25 level area. Why not have it so that in this area you can be level 15 or even 25, EVERYWHERE (just be sure not to have enemies that are level 26). Like I said earlier You aren’t about to up-level me when I run into a higher level area unknowingly. Its always a surprise and an unfortunate one at that, but it gives me a goal. On the other hand, this down-leveling, which often occurs without me even realizing it, takes place when I revisit an area that I left not an hour before, leveled up a bit and have now returned to raise havoc and get beat up by the same dumb mobs that tore me limb from limb before. This makes absolutely no sense at current. PLEASE Fix this. I almost, almost Love this game, yet this system is making me hate it. I want to tell people to play this game, but right now I’m ashamed.

Am I alone in this? How many of my fellow guildies have issue with this system? Please elaborate.

You should reword this I think it’s going to be deleted. Make it into debate and not a complaint.

I think the idea was to stop your level 80 making it impossible for the level 5’s to actually get any kills in their starter area…

Doesn’t quite work out but it’s a step in the right direction. Yes, it is infuriating when your fully kitted out super-powered level 80 gets stomped on by a rampaging chicken but by the time you reach lvl 80 you should have enough experience with your character to be able to cope with it…

ehmm well yeah there is a few places, where you get lvled below mobs true but honestly the majority of places you are a few lvl’s above and that + the fact you got better quality gear than ppl at that lvl have access to on top of all your traits, you should still be utterly destroying mobs 90% of the time… really my condition build (only got base power) lvl 80 mesmer is still 2-3 shoting mobs in the lowest lvl area…

Rusty Hardy.9365:

The whole point of any game like this, is to become so powerful that no one can touch you.

Well, in this game it isn’t. In this game the point is that no matter your level, no part of the world becomes obsolete by you overpowering it just by means of statistics.
The open world content isn’t particularly difficult to begin with, you can become untouchable by just mastering your profession. That is much more rewarding than just piling up numbers.

Rusty Hardy.9365:

The whole point of any game like this, is to become so powerful that no one can touch you.

Says who ?

To me, the point of any game (MMO or otherwise) is providing fun. Now, it’s entirely possible that your idea of fun includes being able to steamroll through content. Me, I found that incredibly boring in other MMO’s (e.g. WoW). It’s also the best way to make sure nobody except those running through the leveling is going to be in low-level areas, making the world feel dead even though millions are playing (e.g. WoW..)

Rusty Hardy.9365:

The whole point of any game like this, is to become so powerful that no one can touch you.

That’s indeed the case for many RPGs.

Personally, I’m glad it’s different in GW2. It’s what allows me to go to random zones and still actually play the content there. I don’t feel like nobody can touch me, but normally you get downleveled to one or two levels above the mobs in your area, so you should still be fairly strong while not giving up the illusion of being part of a real, living world.

There are only two exceptions:

One is that downleveling is based on how good your gear is at your real level. So with every level you gain without updating your gear, you’ll have slightly worse stats when downleveled. Obviously this stops being an issue when you hit 80, and a level 80 character who is probably for the first time in his life decked out in exotic gear at level 78+ is a force to be reckoned with in any zone.

The other is that in some very few areas, downleveling is broken and players are downleveled to 5+ levels below mobs. However these are isolated bugs in a small number of places in a handful of zones.

All in all, levels in GW2 feel less like a measure of my character’s strength, and more like an indicator of how experienced I am with it. I’m fine with that because it makes the entire world a lot more consistent. No huge differences between the same kind of mob depending on where you fight it that I have to explain away. I can travel somewhere and centaurs will be centaurs.

OMFG! I keep doing the same thing in PvE.

Last night I lost my latest Hardcore toon at level 22 (I think I’ve levelled about 40 toons to level 20-30). I was in Divinities Reach and tried to run past 3 level 9 bandits. I got stunned instantly as I missed the dodge. A second later I was in downed state. I couldn’t believe the speed my health went down. Within another second I was dead and I couldn’t get a single hit on them.

I get the down levelling, but seriously, how can 3 level 9 bandits kill a level 22 without the chance of fighting back? I had level 20 equipment and 10 toughness on my traits by the way.

I hear everyone say PvE is sooo easy but I just can’t do it when in lower level areas, when my level 22 was in a level 25 area moments before I didn’t have this trouble… 5 months of this crap is driving me crazy.

Are there any guilds for Hardcore players out there, because I really need some help to l2p… T.T

To OP:

This down scaling is keeping me happy and fun because i never run into some overpowered player one-shotting the monster around me. And i believe this is one of the most beautiful feature that GW2 offered.

It’s one of the game’s best features for me.

Im sorry but Down-leveling in the area you visit is a MUST.
You are playing an MMORPG, you shouldnt just be able to 1 shot everything other players try to lvl with.

The entire point of leveling up isn’t to be MORE POWERFUL…
The point of leveling in PvE is to explore, and unlock new areas (The higher lvl areas) to experience harder challenges in harder, and bigger zones.

We dont need Power Creep in GW2. It’s not healthy for the game.

I love the down leveling system- honestly I think it is one of the best features of the game.
It makes the entire world relevant and doesn’t force you to sit in the few 80 zones.

I also like a challenge and I can see how much I improve on my class by learning how to keep myself safe.

Really it is not that hard

Remarkably I find nothing wrong with downscaling. It’s novel, and it works. (to some extent)

I’m still wondering why my ranger with about 15kish HP (my guardian being a benchmark having 16k) would only have 2/3 of my guardian’s hp in AC.

The math doesn’t work out, but idc, the concept/principle behind down-leveling is a wait long time coming.

Which did come.

It really really pisses me off and other than the horrible class balancing and culling in WvW is probably the worst aspect of the game IMO.

My main issue is the mats dropped. Killing a lvl 80 ice drake in frostgorge or a low level one in wayfarer is of equal difficulty due to down leveling but one can drop a armored scale worth 20 silver and one will drop a tiny scale worth a few coppers, thats just stupid.

Also if you are going to down level my character when i go to wayfarer to fight the maw for example(where i usually go to get my daily 5 events back to back) then down level my kitten armor repairs if i loose 3 pieces of armor during the fighting im in the hole after due to armor repair costs.

If they fixed the drops, and the armor repair down to the level you are in then it would be alot better IMO and would be a full down-leveling system not this kitten attempt we have now.

I mean afterall the whole point is to bring people to lower level areas but no one in there right mind would go to a low level area for level 1 mats when they can just as easaly farm orr or frostgorge for level 5 and 6 mats.

I love dynamic leveling. It is the best feature of the game for me. I tend to play slowly going through areas, taking my time exploring, etc. So in games like LotRO, WoW (especially after Cata, good lord) I always tended to outlevel the areas I was in and by the time I got to the end of the quest chains, everything was easy and boring. Honestly, the no-griefing angle is just gravy for me, the best thing about dynamic leveling is how it lets me play the game without worrying about what level I am or how fast I’m going.

That being said, the dynamic leveling doesn’t get everything. I think they adjusted some of this in the last patch, but it didn’t (IIRC) scale all the stats from your traits and stuff, and of course as you level you get more skills, traits, experience with your class, etc. So I still find that if I just want to mindlessly annihilate a bunch of mobs, I just need to go to a zone that’s sufficiently below my current level. Which is nice because there are days when you just want to blow off steam and kill the heck out of something.

Rusty Hardy.9365:

The whole point of any game like this, is to become so powerful that no one can touch you.

Not this one game.
I believe that for once it’s ok that ONE game delivers a different experience than others.
I’m tired with people demanding that GW2 follows the same routes as other games, if you want that go play other games.

Rusty Hardy.9365:

…the “Personal” story thing that you all thought was so nifty but most of us hate in one way or another…

you know you don’t have to do the storyline right?

Rusty Hardy.9365:

“Dynamic leveling.” Bah. You don’t Dynamically up-level me when I run into monsters, seemingly at random, that are well above my level.

But the game does dynamically up-level you so you can play PvP & WvW against other high level players. Are you saying those 80’s you’re fighting inWvW should hate that you got up-leveled just to play against them?

Rusty Hardy.9365:

Let me bully monsters. That’s all I want to do.

How rewarding is it to beat up on creatures 40 levels below you? I mean, there’s no challenge, there’s no loot, there’s no excitement. With down-leveling you can still be challenged playing thru an area you missed while leveling. And you can get loot that’s appropriate for your true level.

Rusty Hardy.9365:

One of the things I used to love about Guild Wars, was that: Once I acquired my awesome AOE skills I could cluster enemies and then make it rain. I felt all powerful. It was freaking awesome and it was well deserved, I earned the right to feel awesome.

Except in GW you had to bring a party full of henchmen to stay alive. You weren’t all-powerful. You had half a dozen allies with you.

Rusty Hardy.9365:

I don’t know how many times this has happened:
I’ll be five or more levels above a small horde of monsters (3 or 5) that I’ve gathered up and then start my string of devastating attacks only to be utterly destroyed within seconds, it’s at this point when I realize that I’ve been NERFED. Me THE PLAYER has been Nerfed.

Can you do this at 80 against 80’s? Cuz if so you should be able to steamroll thru downleveled content. Level 30’s in a lvl 30 zone don’t have access to all the traits you’ve got & have maybe 1 elite to choose from. Plus you should be experienced with your class by 80 to know how to defeat lvl 30 foes that don’t have nearly the range of abilities lvl 80 mobs do.

What if “The whole point of any game like this”.. is to become so skilled that no one can touch you.

If you’re level 80 and you find yourself struggling against lvl32 mobs, you need to tune your build and learn how to play it more effectively.

stats will not save you.

To OP:
I actually experienced quite the opposite of what you described. Very often I find down scaled higher level players (I’m talking 20-30 above the zone level) joining an event, killing spawned mobs within 2-3 seconds before others even reach them. It is much more difficult to even deal damage to get the exp, nevermind qualify for drops.

I would say that the down-scaling isn’t low enough.

exocet.6308:

To OP:
I actually experienced quite the opposite of what you described. Very often I find down scaled higher level players (I’m talking 20-30 above the zone level) joining an event, killing spawned mobs within 2-3 seconds before others even reach them. It is much more difficult to even deal damage to get the exp, nevermind qualify for drops.

I would say that the down-scaling isn’t low enough.

I’d have to agree with this. I did my dailies a while back in Caledon Forest since I was quite busy and had to get them done quickly so I ran into this quite a lot. As a level 80 player in the starter area, I did kill most of the monsters very quickly. So when I knew I would destroy the event mobs in an instant, especially when it was just one normal monster, I waited for people to get their hits in so they wouldn’t be left unrewarded.
The Risen Broodmother is a good example of that, since people usually attack the undead creature first until they realize it’s the drake they need to be attacking.

At level 80, you really can completely obliterate mobs in lower-leveled zones. You have your trait points, your traits, runes/sigils, and your chosen skill loadout, and personal gameplay skill. It’s exactly like you claim you want it to be. :-/ They are no threat unless you completely stop paying attention to the game… in which case you’re no longer paying attention to the game.

This complaint doesn’t seem based in the actual mechanics, or something else is at play besides the downleveling.

Downscaling still makes lvl 80s way too powerful in low level zones. I’m using a condition build with no power and it’s only when I get to maybe level 70+ zones that I start having to take care about how many mobs I am pulling. I’ve helped two separate friends level up from scratch with my 80 and I always let him take a few swings in before I attack because I will kill them so fast he can’t get xp credit.

Instances of downscaling making you actually lower than the mob level are rare and if you can’t take on for example a veteran that is 2 levels higher than you, then you need to look at your build or your playstyle.

Yeah I still melt things just fine in zones up to lv70 or so with my engy decked out in full exotic, and even my new mesmer that’s still only in lv 65 rare gear feels way more powerful in low level zones than he did when he was that level.

I like that it down levels you. I want to explore the other areas and do the events I haven’t done yet without falling asleep because it’s so kitten easy. I don’t play games because I want to feel like an unstoppable god, I play them to have fun and if there is no challenge it’s just boring.

It is already far easier if you are over leveled and geared for the area, it’s just not impossible to die if your not paying attention.

I have no idea how anyone is struggling in open world pve in this game :o It’s ultimate relaxation.

Lower mobs die in like 2 hits, maybe you should get some more traits OP

I love the downleveling, I tried the TERA f2p recently, it was horrible, because my friends couldn’t play with me. So archaic.

Personally i just don’t see the point of leveling a char if your just gonna be downgraded if you go into a low level area may as well just stay away from them and hang around in Southsun or Cursed shore. Why spend the money on gear and the time on leveling if you gain no advantage from it. and tbh apart from world completion there’s no point going back to starter areas once done.

Replay value is shockingly non existent. Only replay value are dungeons and wvw, in pve there’s nothing.

jesterchaos.5907:

Personally i just don’t see the point of leveling a char if your just gonna be downgraded if you go into a low level area may as well just stay away from them and hang around in Southsun or Cursed shore. Why spend the money on gear and the time on leveling if you gain no advantage from it. and tbh apart from world completion there’s no point going back to starter areas once done.

Replay value is shockingly non existent. Only replay value are dungeons and wvw, in pve there’s nothing.

Just because it is something you do not do does not make it truth for all. All the starting areas, especially Human and Norn are teeming with all ranges of players. If you think you have no advantage as a high level player leveled down I would suggest you take another try at some of those lower level zones and tell me whether you stomp those enemies or not.

Rusty Hardy.9365:

Concerning: Dynamic Leveling AKA Down-Leveling

Arena Net: “The goal is to more accurately reflect the attributes you should have at that level for a similarly geared character. While this will make some areas harder, our goal is to make all areas of Guild Wars 2 exciting and fun for players of any level. We also want players of all levels to feel like their time is well spent and rewarding in any map they go to.”

Well it doesn’t work! It makes me feel like all the time I put into my character is Pointless, because I’m always struggling. The whole point of any game like this, is to become so powerful that no one can touch you. Especially in PVE; which I find myself soloing on frequently -all thanks to the “Personal” story thing that you all thought was so nifty but most of us hate in one way or another- this down-leveling as I’m fond of calling it, is downright frustrating.

“Dynamic leveling.” Bah. You don’t Dynamically up-level me when I run into monsters, seemingly at random, that are well above my level. Why should Monsters get it so easy? They never have to worry about some ‘Veteran" player just wondering around their area, twenty levels higher than them. It’s not fair. Let me bully monsters. That’s all I want to do.

I can’t express in words how infuriating it is to find myself having my hide handed to me by creatures that are ten levels below me, because I’ve been arbitrarily down-leveled to well beneath them, often by two or three levels. REALLY?!?! One of the things I used to love about Guild Wars, was that: Once I acquired my awesome AOE skills I could cluster enemies and then make it rain. I felt all powerful. It was freaking awesome and it was well deserved, I earned the right to feel awesome. In Guild Wars 2 there is NO hope for this.

I don’t know how many times this has happened:
I’ll be five or more levels above a small horde of monsters (3 or 5) that I’ve gathered up and then start my string of devastating attacks only to be utterly destroyed within seconds, it’s at this point when I realize that I’ve been NERFED. Me THE PLAYER has been Nerfed.

I get what you’re trying to do. I understand the entire point of this system but I really think it’s failing at this time. I Do think it can be improved, maybe even to a point where it could be useful And fun. All of the areas have level indicators posted on the map, for example Snowden Drifts is listed as a 15 – 25 level area. Why not have it so that in this area you can be level 15 or even 25, EVERYWHERE (just be sure not to have enemies that are level 26). Like I said earlier You aren’t about to up-level me when I run into a higher level area unknowingly. Its always a surprise and an unfortunate one at that, but it gives me a goal. On the other hand, this down-leveling, which often occurs without me even realizing it, takes place when I revisit an area that I left not an hour before, leveled up a bit and have now returned to raise havoc and get beat up by the same dumb mobs that tore me limb from limb before. This makes absolutely no sense at current. PLEASE Fix this. I almost, almost Love this game, yet this system is making me hate it. I want to tell people to play this game, but right now I’m ashamed.

Am I alone in this? How many of my fellow guildies have issue with this system? Please elaborate.

Yes, you are alone in this.. for my part that is. I like the down leveling. I like the fact I can come back to the lower lvls and participate in the events there and get my lvl loot and it still be fun. Your post sounds too much like you are crying cause you can’t come into the lower lvls and one shot everything.. If you like doing that then go to wow or some other game. Power isn’t what gw2 is about.

Eladriel.7295:

Yes, you are alone in this.. for my part that is. I like the down leveling. I like the fact I can come back to the lower lvls and participate in the events there and get my lvl loot and it still be fun. Your post sounds too much like you are crying cause you can’t come into the lower lvls and one shot everything.. If you like doing that then go to wow or some other game. Power isn’t what gw2 is about.

I don’t think anyone wants to 1 shot everything.

For me, I do vent my frustration at the down levelling from time to time. Its absolutely not because I can’t kill a foe (they die easily enough), I only get frustrated because I am randomly 1-2 shot killed by foes that are well below my level. Please note that this is only a very small percentage as it usually only surfaces when I am level 20-30 in a starting area. I won’t lie, most of the time it IS a cakewalk but I just can’t predict when that difficulty spike will hit. Of course you can say l2p, that is OK because I do suck balls at this game (only just got my 1,000 kills in WvW last night).

I’ve recently made the decision my next permadeath toon in PvE is to steer clear of running in lower level areas, this is because I don’t die when I’m exploring areas at my real level, even Orr (maybe it’s a mental thing, I think I should be safe in lower level areas so I’m not pumped for battle?).

Again, I don’t want more damage in lower level areas, but I would appreciate constructive advice on how not to die in them.