Guild Wars 2

Guardian- KB, % max health heal
Thief- Teleport, stealth
Warrior- worst surprise ever, rally (if lucky)
Necro- fear, poison field (meh)
Engi- pull, aoe launch
Ranger- aoe interrupt, pet heal(doesn’t stop stomping)
Mesmer- prolonged defeat, small dps
Ele- INVULNERABLE + MOBILITY, immobilize

I put caps for ele to express my issue. This goes for anywhere, wvw, spvp, pve w/e. Being invulnerable while able to move around has a way higher chance to rally than any of the others. War/necro/ranger/engi/guard can be negated by blind/stability/invulnerability. Thief can avoid a stomp but they can’t avoid obvious dps (ZOMG he stealth, where did he go?? OH still here), Mesmer can be fooled into using #2 and still stomp them (sometimes), how is the ele downed state at all fair? The whole idea of the downed state is to have a fighting chance, yet ele seems to have the odds in their favor. That isn’t balanced, at all. The only profession comparable to ele downed state is ranger when in water, because you can’t stomp underwater and if they get their pet on them its REALLY hard to finish them but how many encounters really occur underwater?

This needs changing. It isn’t a “playstyle” to be at such a rewarding downed state, and it certainly isn’t fair to the other professions who suffer from such easy finishes. It should either last 2 seconds(so immobilize can really be an effective counter) or it should be changed to something along the lines of which attunement you died under (earth, you kd, fire you shoot backwards, water you become a block of ice, lightning you can teleport).

Every profession has a falling damage trait, and every profession has some variation of a downed state trait (although silly tbh). These traits should all include immunity to blind while downed, blind seems all too easy to stomp people. As a thief main, I find it rather unfair to go stealth or blind for a finisher, but I also find it rather op with stability finishing. There should be a REAL fighting chance when downed, and it should be balanced across all professions. No downed state should be better than the next, and this means the #2’s and #3’s should match in power.

-the hammer on warrior should knockdown foes in a line, and let it be a directional cast.
-Fear should be around the target it’s casted upon for necros.
-engi should be able to pull all foes within a small radius (450?)

these downed skills should be able to somewhat counter a group stomp, don’t give this ability to a select few.

This sounds like a WvW/PvP issue, not PvE. I don’t play much WvW and no PvP, and I would much rather be downed on my Ranger, or my Guardian, than my Elementalist. Moving those few feet in PvE does little for my survivability. Lol.

Of course, that’s just me. =)

(Speaking mostly from a PvE perspective, the game is predominately PvE after all) I’m sorry but as an ele I feel like your complaint is a little unfounded. We are the squishiest of the squishies and we go down very very quickly. It’s 3 seconds of invulnerability which doesn’t actually let you go that far, our health continues to go down while we are moving (and we cannot see our health during this process) and it doesn’t meant it easier to rally. We can perhaps stay in downed a little longer, but we can’t really hurt our attacker. So yeah in a group situation it gives us a decent chance to rally if our team mates can kill someone for us, but if someone starts attacking us while we are downed or uses a finisher then we are screwed, vapour form or not…

In pve, npc’s cannot cross jumps for the most part. That is where I see vapor form to be op, because there are a ton of places an ele can hide since they can still jump in vapor form.

Squishy if you build so, ele can burst heal a ton of remove conditions quite rapidly. They may be the lowest health tier and in light armor but they can recover really well with some builds, which I see as fair since they kinda need something to keep them afloat. In spvp/wvw they can 100% avoid a stomp for a few more seconds and in some cases, get into a safe spot to completely recover and not worry about being stomped. Its not a cry for “help, I can’t l2p”, that isn’t at all fair to the other professions. Warrior has to cry for ages before vengeance even pops up, and even if they get credit for killing something they may not even rally, group stomping a warrior is way to easy.

If i recall you can immobilise an ele before they use Vapor Form and they wont be able to move.

I play an Elementalist in PvE and WvW and have been up against Elementalists in WvW 1 on 1.

Buying a few feet in WvW does not do much for you, even if you manage to land in the middle of your own zerg up against another zerg. I’ve gone after other Elementalists who have tried to move away and been able to stomp them easily.

If you are playing a Thief and cannot finish off an Elementalist, I’m a little confused. Sorry if that sounds like L2P, I have the hardest times in a 1v1 fight up against a Thief when I am on my Elementalist. Maybe I need to to L2P.

I can’t speak to sPvP since I won’t do MMO-style FPS. So maybe there is something I do not understand there, that gives Elementalists a perceived advantage in close quarters with a lot of terrain / obstacles to use tactically.

I actually prefer my Necro’s downstate over my Elementalist’s. And find my Guardian’s and Warrior’s more useful.

Again, maybe I’m just a bad player and don’t find those “out of the way” spots to scoot into in less than 3 secs to “completely recover” in because the only time I’m in that situation is in the middle of an open zerg on zerg fight or if I’m out solo. Other places, I’m strategically using terrain for my advantage.

-I’m sure there are better players than I who can more competently comment on this.

PS: If this is really a sPvP issue, I will never advocate for changes there at the expense of the other 2 playstyles (PvE and WvW).

sinzer.4018:

If i recall you can immobilise an ele before they use Vapor Form and they wont be able to move.

I’m aware, but not everyone has an immobilize lasting 3+ seconds that’s quick to cast. Also #2 is readily available almost immediately after the invulnerable state wears off after being downed, which makes timing this rather difficult if the ele is say, right outside of a tower/keep/base(forest map in spvp).

This post is only directed towards the downed state for the professions, it has nothing to do with “class X can kill class Y easy, idk what the issue for you is”. That btw has no argument here, because class x isn’t always going to be up against class y, there are 7 other professions who have rather different results when downed. Here’s what I have come to work with against the downed state on a general basis W/O using blind or SS or some unique method to finishing.

-Guardian: start stomp, wait about 2 seconds, dodge, resume stomp.
-Warrior: Start stomp, wait for them to pull arm back, dodge, resume stomp.
-Thief: start stomp, nothing to do but wait for the ss. Some thieves do it immediately which is rather silly, in which case I just walk over and stomp.
-Ranger- start stomp, wait about 2 seconds, dodge, resume stomp.
-Engi- start stomp, wait about 2 seconds, dodge, resume stomp.
-Mesmer- start stomp, wait about 2 seconds, move, resume stomp, often they will reappear close enough for the channel to finish.
-Necro- Start stomp, wait for mark above my head, dodge, resume stomp.
-Ele, start stomp, expect invulnerable, chase them to finish because stomps take about 4 seconds, and most ele’s aren’t crazy enough to pop vapor form until right b4 the stomp.

NinjaEd.3946:

sinzer.4018:

If i recall you can immobilise an ele before they use Vapor Form and they wont be able to move.

I’m aware, but not everyone has an immobilize lasting 3+ seconds that’s quick to cast. Also #2 is readily available almost immediately after the invulnerable state wears off after being downed, which makes timing this rather difficult if the ele is say, right outside of a tower/keep/base(forest map in spvp).

This post is only directed towards the downed state for the professions, it has nothing to do with “class X can kill class Y easy, idk what the issue for you is”. That btw has no argument here, because class x isn’t always going to be up against class y, there are 7 other professions who have rather different results when downed. Here’s what I have come to work with against the downed state on a general basis W/O using blind or SS or some unique method to finishing.

-Guardian: start stomp, wait about 2 seconds, dodge, resume stomp.
-Warrior: Start stomp, wait for them to pull arm back, dodge, resume stomp.
-Thief: start stomp, nothing to do but wait for the ss. Some thieves do it immediately which is rather silly, in which case I just walk over and stomp.
-Ranger- start stomp, wait about 2 seconds, dodge, resume stomp.
-Engi- start stomp, wait about 2 seconds, dodge, resume stomp.
-Mesmer- start stomp, wait about 2 seconds, move, resume stomp, often they will reappear close enough for the channel to finish.
-Necro- Start stomp, wait for mark above my head, dodge, resume stomp.
-Ele, start stomp, expect invulnerable, chase them to finish because stomps take about 4 seconds, and most ele’s aren’t crazy enough to pop vapor form until right b4 the stomp.

VF’s only good managing to get through gates in WvW. Outside of that there’s no reason why you shouldn’t be able to still stomp an ele that’s downed regardless of class. It’s just a couple of extra seconds.

NinjaEd.3946:

There should be a REAL fighting chance when downed, and it should be balanced across all professions. No downed state should be better than the next, and this means the #2’s and #3’s should match in power.

I agree with this sentiment, though I think you would be real surprised at who would be better or worse off after doing the balancing.

NinjaEd.3946:

…snip….
-Ele, start stomp, expect invulnerable, chase them to finish because stomps take about 4 seconds, and most ele’s aren’t crazy enough to pop vapor form until right b4 the stomp.

That’s pretty much it for anyone who has played some PvP.
And like you have already said: guardian, warrior, ranger, engie, and necro interrupts are all negated by blind and stability.

Thief teleport can be negated by teleport skills. If he ports away a second too fast you can port to him using thieves infiltrators strike, eles lightning flash, mesmers blink and guardians flashing blade.

Mesmer port is negated by doing what you said, the only chance they have is porting far enough but that’s more random than anything.

And then eles, they have a granted 2 seconds of the stomp animation, then 3 seconds of invulnerability, and then 3 more seconds until you can finish the stomp. That’s a total of 8 seconds to stomp an ele, which wouldn’t be a problem in a 1vs1 with nobody else around, but anything other than, yeah, it’s an advantage for sure.

I have been pouring my discontent on the mesmer down skill for t he longest time. It hurts more than help. Allow me to copy-paste my general thoughts:

Arikyali.5804:

This downed skill – deception – is not very helpful. Mesmer’s basic auto attack is fine, and the phantasmal rogue can deal pretty nice damage, but deception is not the least bit reliable. Most classes have their ‘last ditch’ saving grace, but I have rarely had that experience with Deception.

1. It requires a target in order to be activated. So if you can’t even see what is killing you, you’re trapped on the ground and can’t move. You’re pretty much as good as dead. I’ve found myself spamming 2, and nothing is happening. By the time I realize it and try to target something, it’s usually too late.

2. You can’t choose the direction you’re going. I’ts very possible the place you warped to will end up with a monster or player that will just kill you faster.

3. If I’m downed in PvE, the LAST thing I want is to pull aggro to myself. This is exactly what the deception clone does. It keeps blasting at enemies, gets its attention, then gets itself destroyed before the mesmer can heal up. Then the enemy targets the player, and proceeds to deliver the killing blows.

4. I suppose it is okay for PvP and WvW, because enemies will usually stomp the clone instead of you. But there’s still the possibility of warping someplace you don’t want to end up, and probably nowhere near an ally that can help you. Besides….someone who’s observant would just leave the clone and move to you. Then what?

If I could have the opportunity to update this skill, it would include: 1) choose where you warp, and 2) not require a target to activate the skill. There have been times where I’m downed and I manage to rally back up alone. Perhaps if the clone was instead healing itself, it may be more helpful. Then it wouldn’t draw aggro, and people couldn’t tell the difference between the real mesmer and the clone. (The real mesmer is always the one that’s trying to heal) The damage it does isn’t enough to kill the enemy anyway. That’s what the berserker is for. I would really like to see the skill save me more often than kill me.

Arikyali.5804:

1. It requires a target in order to be activated.

So does the warrior, engie, necro, ranger interrupt (well warriors can use it, but if you are not standing right in front of them it can’t hit you)

2. You can’t choose the direction you’re going. I’ts very possible the place you warped to will end up with a monster or player that will just kill you faster.

It’s random because it gives you 3 seconds of stealth + a teleport (thieves can only teleport and then wait to have their stealth skill).

3. If I’m downed in PvE, the LAST thing I want is to pull aggro to myself.

In PvE what you should be doing is using deception to gain a few seconds until you can use your rogue. Rogue can crit rrrrreally hard if you are full zerker, so if you didn’t rally with that, you weren’t gonna rally with a different class anyway.

4. I suppose it is okay for PvP and WvW, because enemies will usually stomp the clone instead of you.

No, that doesn’t happen unless the enemy is terrible. The mesmer is always the second one to appear.

To sum up, mesmer downed state is not that bad. You can still prevent the stomp if you are blinded or the enemy has stability on, that’s a big deal in PvP.
And in PvE rogue is still great for rallying.

Upham.6137:

No, that doesn’t happen unless the enemy is terrible. The mesmer is always the second one to appear.

Isn’t that still pointless to know considering the giant red arrow above downed mesmers and not their clones? I just go on that. I usually can’t stop laughing everytime i see someone trying to stomp a mesmer’s clone.

The ability is useless.

Upham.6137:

NinjaEd.3946:

…snip….
-Ele, start stomp, expect invulnerable, chase them to finish because stomps take about 4 seconds, and most ele’s aren’t crazy enough to pop vapor form until right b4 the stomp.

That’s pretty much it for anyone who has played some PvP.
And like you have already said: guardian, warrior, ranger, engie, and necro interrupts are all negated by blind and stability.

Thief teleport can be negated by teleport skills. If he ports away a second too fast you can port to him using thieves infiltrators strike, eles lightning flash, mesmers blink and guardians flashing blade.

Mesmer port is negated by doing what you said, the only chance they have is porting far enough but that’s more random than anything.

And then eles, they have a granted 2 seconds of the stomp animation, then 3 seconds of invulnerability, and then 3 more seconds until you can finish the stomp. That’s a total of 8 seconds to stomp an ele, which wouldn’t be a problem in a 1vs1 with nobody else around, but anything other than, yeah, it’s an advantage for sure.

Like I said though, those stomps were without stomping benefits like blind, stability, teleports, invulnerability, etc. In 1v1, there is no real advantage I mean all the ele does is live a little longer. But most fights aren’t going to be 1v1, and those 8 seconds can be the difference between a rally, and defeat.

Upham.6137:

4. I suppose it is okay for PvP and WvW, because enemies will usually stomp the clone instead of you.

No, that doesn’t happen unless the enemy is terrible. The mesmer is always the second one to appear.

To sum up, mesmer downed state is not that bad. You can still prevent the stomp if you are blinded or the enemy has stability on, that’s a big deal in PvP.
And in PvE rogue is still great for rallying. [/quote]

Not only that, when you are revealed, a black cloak swarms around your body. Its really obvious which memser is the real one. I think if the intention was to throw off the enemy, deception should remove that reveal effect of the cloak, and the order in which you appear should be random. I do know if a Mesmer dies in a corner or near a ledge of some sort, that they usually don’t port very far but I guess that’s the downfall of dying in a bad place.

If there’d would be a single thing I’d like to see changed/removed then it would be the Downed-state mechanic.

Its the most unfun, unbalanced and unfair snowballing mechanic I have ever experienced.

• Unfun because I’m lying on the ground, throwing rocks, spaming a single ability, always going through the same process.
• Unfun because the enemy can simply leave me there, just to delay my respawn.
• Unbalanced because the different downed-skills are highly unbalanced.
• Unfair because reviving someone is incredibly fast compared to stomping.
• Snowballing because it gives a massive upper hand to the larger numbers.

LOL Ele downed is your issue?!!! wut?

Down ele, start your Finish, assume he will instantly mist, cancel your Finish, run to where he ends, Finish. Guardiand and Ele are hands-down the easiest classes to finish in their downed state. Guardian especially (I play guardian and Ele as mains btw): Throw up stability, stomp = dead guardian. Or, start stomp, get knocked back, now take your time to stomp them as they are literally helpless. Our #3 (heal) has a pretty long CD from when you first are downed. You have plenty of time to kill them.

Elementalist is just as easy, you just have to move a little bit. Ranger is easy as long as you get on them fast. That pet rez is pretty awesome but takes awhile for it to come up to use.

I’d say Mesmer has the best Downed state. If they are good they can end up hidden behind something and have a buddy rez them.

As a necro I must say our downed skills are pretty rubbish. We’re pretty much dead meat. Most enemies in PVE ignore our fear (especially bosses), or run back instantly to beat you to death. In wvw players simply spam attacks on you, or pop stability to ignore the fear all together. All classes should have a skill to teleport them away in downed state, or none at all.

Dee Jay.2460:

If there’d would be a single thing I’d like to see changed/removed then it would be the Downed-state mechanic.

Its the most unfun, unbalanced and unfair snowballing mechanic I have ever experienced.

• Unfun because I’m lying on the ground, throwing rocks, spaming a single ability, always going through the same process.
• Unfun because the enemy can simply leave me there, just to delay my respawn.
• Unbalanced because the different downed-skills are highly unbalanced.
• Unfair because reviving someone is incredibly fast compared to stomping.
• Snowballing because it gives a massive upper hand to the larger numbers.

• its more fun than lying there dead
• you would rally if left unhindered
• lots of classes have lots of unbalanced abilities. downed skills are an extension of the class abilities and can be dealt with
• they brought help, you probably should have too
• extension of bringing friends

You know they will be downed before they are dead, plan on it and watcht o counter those massively unbalanced yet completely telegraphed skills.

• No it’s not. At least with death there’s a real chance of failure. At least my respawn timer starts when I’m dead.
• Again, not true. You obviously don’t PvP much. Leaving people to bleed out s common practice in a controlled environment.
• Yes, a certain imbalance is expected. But Elementalists being unkillable near gates and doors? The fact that many downs have counters (Stealth, Stability) but others do not (Mesmer, Ele).
• Dumb response and it changes nothing about it being a snowballing mechanic.

I know how to counter the downed abilities that have counters. Still doesn’t change anything about the fact that downed-state is the worst mechanic this game has.

I think the problem with Memers goes beyond the downed mechanic. Their skills are often too random.

- The downed teleport seems to take you anywhere from a safe are to straight into a group of enemies, you have no control over it.
- Inspiration sigil applies random boons. How nice of it to give me aegis in the middle of an empty field.

Combat which involves RNG is not a good idea.

Dee Jay.2460:

Still doesn’t change anything about the fact that downed-state is the worst mechanic this game has.

Except I find it to be one of the best mechanics, so I guess your statement isn’t actually a fact, but more your opinion…

Do you dislike being the person downed or do you dislike that when you kill someone you have to take the time to finish them off?

Also, I don’t know what PvP you play but I rarely if ever see players leave people downed to “bleed out”. That’s just asking for them to rally themselves and for you to have completely wasted your time. Classes you especially can’t leave to “bleed out”: Guardian and Ranger since they have heal abilities. When you say bleed out do you mean you have a bunch of DoTs on them (which is basically just DPSing) or do you mean you let them sit there with the standard downed damage over time?

Downed State Skillls imo need a complete revamp for all classes.

Each Class should give the player 5 completely different skills.
Skills which really give players a quite good chance to rally, before getting stomped.
Receiving Damage shouldn’t stop Downed Skills from recharging.
Being in Downed State characters shouldn’t suffer from such a huge Health Degeneration right from begin on to make it easier to get back up.

Warrior

1) Avenger Strike
Hit the Foe, Avenger Strike becomes more powerful with every hit, so longer you are downed.

2) Disarming Shield Boomerang
Throws your Shield like a boomerang to hit with it either multiple foes.
Gives the Warrior for every hit for 3 seconds Protection and Retalitation and removes Boons from foes.

3)“I will Survive!”
A Skill, which absorbs the next incoming 3 hits and turns them into Might Stacks for a few seconds. Each Stack heals you for a bit health when it ends.

4) Deadly Riposte
Blocks the next incoming attack to perform a powerful counterattack with a thrown Sword that impales the foe, lets them suffer on Weakness and an instant high stack of Bleeding. If this Skill blocks a Finisher, the counter will be 50% more powerful.

5) Thrill of Death
Heals you continously, but you receive for everytime you use this skill a Stack of Vulnerability, Weakness and Blindness
——

Rangers

1) Throw Dirt
Blinds the foes around you and weakens them.

2) Brambles
Summons some protective Brambles around you, which absorb incoming damage, until they got desteoyed first. Attacking them deals Torment and Poison Stacks to foes

3) Edge of Extinction
Summons a Nature Spirit, that deals damage to everybody in near, whenever someone attacks the downed ranger. Should the spirit diw, before the ranger, does the ranger receive a large chunk of health back, does the ranger die before the spirit duration is over, receives the finisher a lanrge counk of counter damage.

4) Energizing Wind
Summons a Nature Spirit, that gives regeneration to you and nearby allies as also Fury and Swiftness. This stacks up with every pulse. Increases also the Stats temporarely of your Pet.

5) Lick Wounds
Revives your Pet and heals you continously, removing also conditions every 2 seconds.
—-

Guardian

1) Aura of Stability
Gives allied players around you for some time Stability and Aegis, enemies that use skills in that moment that deal conditions that would knock down, fear, daze, stun, petrify, launch/knock back, will get those conditions repelled back to themself.

2) Wave of Light
Pushes Foes back and sets them on Burn with stronger stacks, so nearer the foes were to the Guardian as also blinds foes.

3) Symbol of Judgement
Places a symbol on the ground, that heals you and allies around you that damages also foes pover time, putting Torment also on them with every pulse.

4) Wrathful Spirit
Die instantly and heal with your last words all allies around you, removing all of their conditions. This will rally also nearby downed allies.
Become for 15 seconds a Spirit of Wrath, that can wreck havoc with special Wrath Skills. Once your time is over, you’ll vanish and have to choose automatically your respawn point.

5) Gift of Health
Heals you continously for some time, with every hit that the next 1-3 allies to you deal to the foe, that you are attacking. If theres no ally in near, this skill will create a spirit weapon that will fight for you and heals you with every successful hit. a spiritual great sword that can deal deal damage to multiple targets with its attacks.
—-

Necromancer

1) Life Leech
Leech a foes life to heal yourself continously.

2) Well of Blood
Heals you and allies secondly for every condition they are suffering on, while standing in the Well of Blood.

3) Graveyard
Summons multiple Bone Warriors at your place to protect their master. They perform attacks that can cause fear, chill, poison, remove boons and torment.

4) Will’o Wisps
Summons protective Will’o Wisps, each blocking 1 incoming attack.
Whenever one blocks an attack, it will die, causing some big AoE damage and randomous conditions.

5) Necrosis
A powerful attack, that becomes stronger, so nearer you get to death.
Foes that got attacked with it, will get cursed with the “Mark of Death”.
Foes that are marked by the Mark of Death, will receive 50% more damage from Life Leech

Part 2

Mesmer

1) Mind Blast
Creates a magical explosion that confuses a foe.

2) Ether Phantom
Summons a Phantasm,that absorbs all kind of damage to convert it into Health for the Mesmer, while fighting for the Mesmer.

3) Phantom Pain
AoE Torment that grows stronger with every hit received by your Phantasm.
Phantasms deal to foes on torment 20% more damage.

4) Deception
Creates many downed illusions around you, moving you also at a random spot at the same moment. For every downed illusion that gets stomped, will you gain some health.

5) Sympathetic Visage
AoE Daze and Confusion that protects you from getting stomped also for some seconds
—-

Elementalist

1) Grasping Earth
Immobilizes foes and bleeds them.

2) Slippery Ground
Creates a large AoE Ice Field that leads to knock downs if foes move around on it.
Each time a foe gets knocked down by that skill, the Elementalist will get healed.

3) Inferno
Creates a protective ring of fire around you, that absorbs proctiles and damages foes every second on touch as also letting them suffer on burning

4) Whirlwind
Creates a huge Whirlwind at your place, that launches enemies back and deals bleedings per seconds als also having a chance to daze foes

5) Ward against Harm
Creates with arcane powers a protective field, that slows down attack speed of foes by 50% and slows down the animation of the Finishers also by 100%.
You and your allies gain Protection in the AoE field of this skill, while it is active and conditions last 33% shorter.
—-

Engineer

1) Throw Wrench
throws a heavy big Wrench, that interrupts the target and knocks them down.

2) Scrapnel Mines
Creates a Mine Field around you with super sensible powerful scrapnel mines that react on movement and deal large AoE damage that let you suffer on bleedings and vulnerability. If you let go up multiple ones at the same time, then pray to god, that you stand not in their near if they go BOOM all at once. Foes can’t see where they are.

3) Acid Turret
Use an Acid Turret, that attacks foes with Acid Blast that deal Torment and Vulnerability

4) Soap Cloud
Creates a cloud of Soap Bubbles at your place, giving you Regeneration and creates a pulsing AoE blindness. This Skill counts also as Water Field in that allies can perform Water Combos with Healing Effects

5) Elixier M
Use an Elixier M to heal yourself for a langer chunk of heal, but this Elixier will turn you into mini size, protecting you from damage, but you can’t deal damage in that time too.
—-

Thief

1) Trail of Knives > Venomous Knife
Throws a Dagger, that bounces between Targets, cripples them and torments them.
When in Stealth, it causes also Poison and Bleeding

2) Smoke Bomb
Puts you in Stealth for maximum 10 seconds and lets you move under unremoveable cripple around. You gain Regeneration as long Stealth is up.

3) Shadow Doppelgangers > Night Stalkers (Stealth)
Summons 2 Shadow Doppelgangers that will fight for you with the Weapon Skills of the 2 Weapon Sets that you have equipped.
If used while in Stealth, the summons are a bit more powerful with much higher chance for critical strikes. which use also more frequently Shadow Steps/Dodges

4) Grappling Hook
Pulls you to your target, removes boons and heals you for every removed boon and condition on the target.

5) Hide & Seek
Automatically puts you in Stealth and teleports you away the next time someone tries to stomp you.

Side Note: Just some ideas where I thought, that way would make Downed Skills more “fun”

Draknar.5748:

Dee Jay.2460:

Still doesn’t change anything about the fact that downed-state is the worst mechanic this game has.

Except I find it to be one of the best mechanics, so I guess your statement isn’t actually a fact, but more your opinion…

Do you dislike being the person downed or do you dislike that when you kill someone you have to take the time to finish them off?

Also, I don’t know what PvP you play but I rarely if ever see players leave people downed to “bleed out”. That’s just asking for them to rally themselves and for you to have completely wasted your time. Classes you especially can’t leave to “bleed out”: Guardian and Ranger since they have heal abilities. When you say bleed out do you mean you have a bunch of DoTs on them (which is basically just DPSing) or do you mean you let them sit there with the standard downed damage over time?

I don’t like being downed. Downed game-play isn’t fun.

I don’t like having to channel a 3 second finisher to kill someone off who for some inexplicable reason has suddenly gained 50.000 HP from going down.

I don’t like how I have to go through the same ordeal every time, just to finish someone off when 90% of the time, the fight is already won.

I don’t like how easy it is to rezz a fellow player or that some Ranger builds can practically rezz themselves instantly. Try stopping a Guardian from reviving his mate.

I hate the imbalanced nature of many abilities. Elementalists being immortal when near gates is just the pinnacle.

I hate how people in sPvP will down me but just leave me there to bleed out, delaying my respawn for as long as possible.

I hate how some (mostly Condition) builds have no way to prevent someone from reviving his downed mate.

I hate the downed-state underwater, where you can’t even kill some classes 1v1.

I don’t like how downed-state gives a crutch to the larger crowd. Not only do you have to fight an uphill battle in a 2v1 you also have to secure a stomp faster than his ally can rezz.

I hate how it gives viability to Berserker builds. After all who needs survivability when it just takes 3 seconds to revive.

I hate how a target I just took down can instantly rally because some dredge died that he tagged 5 minutes ago.

I hate how easy it is to cheese a rally out of random mobs in the environment.

But most of all I hate the snowballing nature of this mechanic.

So yes, in my opinion it is in fact the worst mechanic that has been conceived for any MMO, thank you very much.

Guaridan’s and Warriors may be able to raise rather quickly, but you can still stun them. If they waste stability just to maybe rally someone, its kinda dumb on their end because 3-4 seconds of standing absolutely still and soaking up damage is going to hurt like kitten. Often I see soldier classes try this and they end up being killed seconds later even if they do manage to raise their ally, its just too much damage for anyone to take.

As for the downed skills, they could be more interesting but first I’d like to see balance. Some people have AoE skills to deal with stomps, some people have teleports, but ele can run/jump and prolong death far better than anyone. There is soo many more options for what an ele wants to do in the downed state, with easier access. Vengence doesn’t even come close, because of its incredibly long cooldown, and Mesmer is the 2nd to appear and also has a cloak affect warp around them when they appear, its pretty obvious.

NinjaEd.3946:

Guaridan’s and Warriors may be able to raise rather quickly, but you can still stun them. If they waste stability just to maybe rally someone, its kinda dumb on their end because 3-4 seconds of standing absolutely still and soaking up damage is going to hurt like kitten. Often I see soldier classes try this and they end up being killed seconds later even if they do manage to raise their ally, its just too much damage for anyone to take.

As for the downed skills, they could be more interesting but first I’d like to see balance. Some people have AoE skills to deal with stomps, some people have teleports, but ele can run/jump and prolong death far better than anyone. There is soo many more options for what an ele wants to do in the downed state, with easier access. Vengence doesn’t even come close, because of its incredibly long cooldown, and Mesmer is the 2nd to appear and also has a cloak affect warp around them when they appear, its pretty obvious.

Ummm…as an ele, the last time my downed 2 skill saved me in WvW was, wait a minute, never. Still just as squishy 3 seconds later as I was before, just annoys and wastes a few seconds of the time of the person finishing me off.

If I’d been within reach of a tower or keep door going down, I would have dodgerolled backwards into it before going down…but then any class can do that.

People, do try to remember that your downed skills mean you’re already defeated and you’ve got a one last-ditch chance to get back up. They’re not really meant to save you, unless the fight was a close call.

Upham.6137:

So does the warrior, engie, necro, ranger interrupt (well warriors can use it, but if you are not standing right in front of them it can’t hit you)

Warrior: Offensive knockback, not to move away.
Engie: Combo with 3 to deal damage – not to move away.
Necro: Doesn’t move, but it is defense-based instead of offense-based. So I guess in line with the same issue.
Ranger: same as warrior, damage and daze

Deception is supposed to move you. The others are stationary. The other four (except maybe for engie) have a second skill that doesn’t need a target, no? Both 2 and 3 for mesmer require a target.

It’s random because it gives you 3 seconds of stealth + a teleport (thieves can only teleport and then wait to have their stealth skill).

imo thief down > mesmer down. What good is 3 seconds of stealth going to do for a mesmer? It doesn’t remove aggro (reset, not remove) and the teleport has the chance to drop me closer to something that will kill me. In PvP/WvW situations, it just delays the stomp. Only scenario I can forsee the stealth being helpful is in a large zerg fight, that gives you a chance to avoid a stop, and for an ally to heal you.

In PvE what you should be doing is using deception to gain a few seconds until you can use your rogue. Rogue can crit rrrrreally hard if you are full zerker, so if you didn’t rally with that, you weren’t gonna rally with a different class anyway.

Of course…like I said, the rogue is a good and reliable down skill. If I wanted to buy a few seconds before summoning the rogue, then a different downskill with a better mechanic can accomplish that. Maybe a shield that absorbs a little damage for a short amount of time? At least I increased my chance to rally with a nearby revive, instead of blinking away from allies because I can’t survive the onslaught that’s killing me.

The best thing the deception clone can do is help stack confusion while you spam as well. Most classes have defense and offense. Mesmer has two skills on the offense. The defense utility of ‘run away’ is just no good.

No, that doesn’t happen unless the enemy is terrible. The mesmer is always the second one to appear.

It can happen in a zerg fight. If you’re solo roaming and you go down, then…just accept you’re already dead.
[/quote]

All I want is deception to do what it’s supposed to do – be defensive. It cannot ‘deceive’ anyone because the real mesmer is easy to spot. The only time it’s deceived my opponents is when I’ve been down long enough to generate two of them (and one rogue).

Or how about this: you warp to a random location, without stealth, and generate 1-2 clones also at random locations. Now you don’t know which clone I am, and I can accept the teleport’s randomness because it serves a purpose!

bewhatever.2390:

Ummm…as an ele, the last time my downed 2 skill saved me in WvW was, wait a minute, never. Still just as squishy 3 seconds later as I was before, just annoys and wastes a few seconds of the time of the person finishing me off.

If I’d been within reach of a tower or keep door going down, I would have dodgerolled backwards into it before going down…but then any class can do that.

Lets say your tower is being hit and you’re on an ele. You see the group ahead and they notice you. Obviously, they want to lock you down, and keep you off any siege that may be inside.

What do you do? Mist form.

If that fails whats next? Vapor form. If you’re not in the tower by then its likely cuz you are new.

Most ele I see can get into the tower with mist form alone, which is ok I suppose, but they should not be able to just waltz in when downed, and get back up. No one but ele can. And again, you build squishy you will die squishy, not all ele’s are running full zerker in wvw, you may be walking that road alone I’m afraid. A thief can stealth and run in, which is about as equal to mist form imo because you still take damage in stealth even though it lasts much longer. But this is about the downed state, so I’ll try to stay on that.

I can’t recall a single time I’ve been able to get vengeance off cd when going down outside a keep or tower, thief teleports but they can’t go inside the portal, Mesmer can’t enter the portal even if they got incredibly lucky with their #2 position.

Is blind/stability/invulnerable/portal stomping fair? No. But it has no affect on ele, and that’s not balanced. Why should other professions suffer from pathetic downed states while the ele has guaranteed 3+ seconds to hold out for a rally or enter a safe spot?

Downed states from best to worst (IMO):

-Ele(stated a million times)
-Ranger(#2 ignores blind, #3 in water is incredible)
-Thief(can avoid stomp with good timing, stealth is meh)
-Guardian(aoe kb, although easily negated by stability/blind)
-Mesmer (most people still stomping the clones… kinda sad but I guess its “effective” at this point in time.
-Engi (long, quick pull although easily avoided up close, but aoe launch is neat if the cd wears off)
-Necro (can heal/dps while an ally heals. Otherwise, really lame/avoidable.)
-War (long cast time, and slow moving hammer, I see this as a matrix reference tbh. Vengence likely to never come off cd, unless the enemy is against stomping, which is rather weird).

NinjaEd:

There are an incredible number of assumptions being made about bewhatever’s spec, playstyle, and utilty bar in that post.

There seems to be a fixation about a very specific, narrow set of circumstances.

There also seems to be an erroneous conclusion that constantly stating an opinion as truth passes as fact.

Whether ALL downstates for all professions need review is another thread, this thread seems to have run its course if posts are just being repeated over and over again.

-leaves thread

NinjaEd.3946:

bewhatever.2390:

Ummm…as an ele, the last time my downed 2 skill saved me in WvW was, wait a minute, never. Still just as squishy 3 seconds later as I was before, just annoys and wastes a few seconds of the time of the person finishing me off.

If I’d been within reach of a tower or keep door going down, I would have dodgerolled backwards into it before going down…but then any class can do that.

Lets say your tower is being hit and you’re on an ele. You see the group ahead and they notice you. Obviously, they want to lock you down, and keep you off any siege that may be inside.

What do you do? Mist form.

If that fails whats next? Vapor form. If you’re not in the tower by then its likely cuz you are new.

Most ele I see can get into the tower with mist form alone, which is ok I suppose, but they should not be able to just waltz in when downed, and get back up. No one but ele can. And again, you build squishy you will die squishy, not all ele’s are running full zerker in wvw, you may be walking that road alone I’m afraid. A thief can stealth and run in, which is about as equal to mist form imo because you still take damage in stealth even though it lasts much longer. But this is about the downed state, so I’ll try to stay on that.

I can’t recall a single time I’ve been able to get vengeance off cd when going down outside a keep or tower, thief teleports but they can’t go inside the portal, Mesmer can’t enter the portal even if they got incredibly lucky with their #2 position.

Is blind/stability/invulnerable/portal stomping fair? No. But it has no affect on ele, and that’s not balanced. Why should other professions suffer from pathetic downed states while the ele has guaranteed 3+ seconds to hold out for a rally or enter a safe spot?

Downed states from best to worst (IMO):

-Ele(stated a million times)
-Ranger(#2 ignores blind, #3 in water is incredible)
-Thief(can avoid stomp with good timing, stealth is meh)
-Guardian(aoe kb, although easily negated by stability/blind)
-Mesmer (most people still stomping the clones… kinda sad but I guess its “effective” at this point in time.
-Engi (long, quick pull although easily avoided up close, but aoe launch is neat if the cd wears off)
-Necro (can heal/dps while an ally heals. Otherwise, really lame/avoidable.)
-War (long cast time, and slow moving hammer, I see this as a matrix reference tbh. Vengence likely to never come off cd, unless the enemy is against stomping, which is rather weird).

Yes, I understand your opinion that ele downed state #2 is OP.

I still think it’s near useless.

Oh, and my build and gear are for PvE sustained fights. No zerker pieces. 18K tough. Mist form isn’t on my bar.

This whole thread sounds to me like the QQ of “there is an opponent who has developed a tactic, to which I have not yet developed a counter tactic”. That counter, by the way, may not involve the profession you currently play. WvW is a team sport which is designed assuming diversity of professions within the team.

Or worse, “I had a winning tactic and my opponent has now developed a counter tactic for it.” Burning oil strikes me as more effective than an ele walking out the tower door, blasting, and walking back in…