Guild Wars 2

hello, 1st of all i’d like to say i loved most of the changes in recent patch, so congratulations Anet!

Now, what brings me to make this post, Ele down state/skills….

it kind of kittens me off that SoOOOoOO many times you “win/are winning” fights and cant finish ppl off even if you’re up as an ele, necros and rangers are most notorious examples but guardians and warriors dont fall far behind, to me Ele STILL has the worst down state of all classes!

if you happen to go down you simply have 0.05% chance to win that downed battle even if you’re full (downed) health and they’re at 10%….

• the 0.05% is in the case a popup brings them to desktop and they dont do anything for 20 sec or have to reboot PC*****

i know class lore wise necro should be master of downed state but for balance sake some adjustments are needed IMO, expecially in PVP

so my sugestions for Ele downed state:

i would keep skill 1 and 2 as they are and just maybe adjust cooldowns based on following….

- Make a trait(or general Ele change with trait enhancement* maybe replacing arcane precision trait/in arcane trait line*), that allows to change attunement in down state and cast corresponding skills to that attunement or make downed skill 3 cast those spells, like:

fire – cast a lava font on your target and burn enemys at your location (or the other way around)
water – cast " something like healing rain"(that heals you even downed) on your location and freeze your target
air – cast a lightning storm at your location and stun your target
earth – apply protection to yourself(EDIT: and allies) and a sandstorm/eruption at your target location

Feel free to coment or make other suggestions

IMO mesmer and thief also need some love in this department so share your thoughts on those classes too

EDIT if you think other classes need some balance too leave your positive/creative suggestions remembering there’s multiple builds available to each class and PvE, PvP and WvW. This is not ment to be a PLZ NERF post or an attempt to remove a class identity the intention is the opposite! Its about trying to balance while maintaining or enhancing a class individuality!

Yea engineer cant even use skill 3 when he is downed. The cooldown is too big. So if you pull someone with skill 2 he will be able to kill you.

i dont play engi hardly ever but from what i know turrets dont disapear if he is in downed state so engi already has a kind of “passive” downed mechanic

Astorm.5496:

i dont play engi hardly ever but from what i know turrets dont disapear if he is in downed state so engi already has a kind of “passive” downed mechanic

I wouldn’t count something he puts up while not downed, as part of his “downed” mechanic. Especially something that isn’t going to be in every build. If it’s part of your downed state fighting it needs to be available when downed.

Astorm.5496:

i dont play engi hardly ever but from what i know turrets dont disapear if he is in downed state so engi already has a kind of “passive” downed mechanic

That is a terrible basis for a counter argument in its own right, but made worse by not even addressing the right subject.

On topic…. as a Rule, downed skills are NOT intended to let you get back up on your own if in overwhelming danger. They are meant to buy time so someone can come get you, or rally off an enemy that you “supposedly” should had been close to killing when you went down.

That said, some skills are far above base line. For design intent, Ele’s mist form is actually well above the line, as it allows you to retreat to safe place. Guardian and Ranger are flat out OP due to raw res power of their 3 skill, and strong stalling power of the 2 skills.

Engie, Thief, and Mesmer are the weakest (PvE wise), as their stalls are unreliable, and their summon skills take too long to charge up. For PvP/WvW, displacement skills should be strong in theory, but aren’t because you’re not moved far enough to escape the enemy’s focus for the short stealth window you’re given. A lot of that has to do with the fact that they (mes/thief) tend to be the last to go down in pvp modes, while displacement skills rely heavily on chaos to be effective.

well some classes will always be better then others but a lot classes have heals while doing dmg, interruptors (so does Ele) and some traits that turn those (already better then most) downed skill into extreme overdrive

now, not all builds should have that overdrive but a turret engi has it by default to some degree (its not like turrets are the easiest/fastest thing to eliminate), that was my point, i didnt mean to say everyone/*every build should be OP while downed, but allow that “build/option” to be available to every class

(edit)****
so a turret engi with a largely enhanced down state would become ridiculous imo causing diferent balance issues
anyway i dont even know engi that well so i’ll keep away from it and let engis give suggestions to make it better without making turret engi ridiculous preferably
********

Yeah, in1v1 downed state, not all professions are equal. Some even out do others when they are up (for a good amount).
Downed state could use some rebalancing or reworking.

Maybe a downed state specialization line and changeable skills is in order.

Sounds like you need some more health, toughness, or healing in your build so you’re not near death whenever you down someone. Go less glass cannon or avoid damage better and you should be able to have enough health to either beat dead a downed necro or stomp it. Equal balance in downed state would throw off the balance of the classes when they aren’t downed.

actually i’ve been playing bunker Ele with 3.2 armor, E/W and arcane traits, so its not the situation….

he got down was taking damage for 10 sec, went down to about 10% down health got me down and beated me from there that happens regularly with necros and rangers

but yes a agree with ur last sentence “Equal balance in downed state would throw off the balance of the classes when they aren’t downed.” but that (what i’ve just explained) doesnt feel balanced either… (*edit) what i mean is some balance is beeing needed, not absolute equality, i actually like the idea of necro being the master of downstate

downstate necro is scarier than healthy non lich formed necro

/truth

Downstate necro all powerful.

The only thing I want to change with downstate skills to make the interrupts actually useful. Most interrupts are completely countered by blind, block, stability, invulnerability. and at that point you might as well just go defeated instead of into a downed state.

Another thing is there is no downside to getting interrupted by the downstate player. You can walk back up and stomp again like nothing happened.

Ele has the worst downed skills? Ele #2 allows you to move anywhere without taking additional damage. Mesmer #2 is just as likely to put you into more danger as it is to take you out of danger. Plus, the stealth only fools people unfamiliar with the mechanic; it barely delays a stomp to those who understand it.

That said, I don’t really have a problem with the skills generally: I don’t think it should be all that easy to escape death after being downed.

mesmer and ele 2 are very similar one teleports while stealthing the other drags with the advantage of being able to pick were you want to land but mesmer had lower CD….. 3 does more dmg then ele

im not sure you’ve read/understood the previous posts anyhow, its prone to happen when speed reading

Only thing that’s annoyed me about the Elementalist’s downed state is how stupid it is that they can go through “doors” in WvW. It’s one of the cheapest mechanics that has been allowed to stay that way since launch. Yes, you can try to Immobilize, but it’s rather ridiculous that you should be required to do so.

Anyone who claims that the Ele needs love in the downstate department, but then fails to list the Engineer as also needing love clearly has no place to complain about the downstate.

Absconditus.6804:

Only thing that’s annoyed me about the Elementalist’s downed state is how stupid it is that they can go through “doors” in WvW. It’s one of the cheapest mechanics that has been allowed to stay that way since launch. Yes, you can try to Immobilize, but it’s rather ridiculous that you should be required to do so.

It’s kitten near impossible to even do so. I’ve seen Ele’s go down in a pile of a dozen red circles and simply cartwheel into the portal because they activate god mode the instant the “invulnerable” state turns off.

ok so about engi i’ve already replied (if you read previous posts) i dont know engi that well and it might need some help but remember that turret engi is an available build to them. I hardly ever play engi so i’ll let ppl who play them a lot give feedback.
If you have any positive suggestions to balance engi downstate remembering about turret engi plz do so (i’ve edited top post)

About Ele mistform and WvW, maybe you’re right but it might also just be a gimmicky. I play PvE and PvP and the few times i was in WvW i problably did what(problably what you’re refering) those Ele’s do to… _ they’re on the wall attacking with staff_ (i did it sometimes being alone in a fortification) jumpdown on a zerg attacking a gate pop armor of earth + tornado throw everyone around, if dying they cast mist form and go back inside… is that relevant? wouldnt the Ele do a LOT more dmg staying on top of the walls? is that a random/useless trolling/fun he’s having that hardly changes the outcome of those fights? Could Anet prevent that? maybe they could prevent ppl from crossing gates while down but im not sure they really want it or that it’s that relevant.

now remember there’s PvE PvP and WvW and the intent of the post is to balance downstate while maintaining a class peculiarity and identity

To me that Ele Fun is less relevant then ex: necros chain fears trowing zergs of cliffs, permastealth thiefs or mesmers picking out ppl on their way from base in open field (where they can stealth if losing and go away 10 miles in any direction to engage you again after healing) making that guy run all the back from base or have to wait 5 min for a group to show up and go with them.

Again the intention of this post is to give positive ideas/suggestions to balance downstate while maintaining/enhancing class personality and identity!

If you have any suggestions plz lets us know about them!

_ they’re on the wall attacking with staff_ (i did it sometimes being alone in a fortification) jumpdown on a zerg attacking a gate pop armor of earth + tornado throw everyone around, if dying they cast mist form and go back inside…

That… sounds amazing and silly. I have to try that just to annoy besieging zergs, and I almost never go into WvW.

As a something whose first class and main was ele, I naively thought that downed skills would be comparably good to Vapor Form. When I played Mesmer as my second class, I found myself essentially dead by the time I was downed. Necro 3 is eh but 2 I can imagine is pretty good if your enemy isn’t popped with stability. (which almost always seems like the case. That or it’s single target. I don’t know necro very well)

In PvP at least, Ele downed 3 seems pretty bad, or I just need to git gud. I guess it was supposed to be you’d vapor form away and then use 3 to immobilize your attacker, but needless to say that’s pretty impractical. Long cooldown and channel. By the time you land it, you’re already stomped by someone’s rabbit banner.