Guild Wars 2

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

When a lvl 80 player with lvl 80 exotic/ascended gear is weaker than a lvl 20 player in a low level zone, there is a problem.

That is not possible even mathematically. the level 80 has all skills and traits, plus an elite skill. Further they have more knowledge of enemies and how they fight. This is a huge strawman.

my point was that before the patch healing sig could out heal the dmg now it cant.
in fact before the patch it could out heal the dmg from 3 eagle raptors. Thats a big difference and since this is a discussion about broken down scaling i thought it relevant.

some say broken.

maybe its like working as intended to reduce the over all power of max lvl players in low lvl zones to like make it more dangerous / exciting for ppl in lower zones :O

or maybe just maybe it was to slow down speed runs in downscaled dungeons to help get rid of the “meta” for casual players pretending to be world record speed clearers

I think part of the issue here is that the same downscaling system is being used for Open World PvE and Dungeons. Those complaining about the system are running Dungeons and those that are ok with a bit more challenge are playing in open world zones (where frankly a bit more challenge is a good thing).

Open World players discount the concerns the Dungeon players have and visa versa. I’m not sure there is a solution to both issues without separate downscale systems.

I have been running dungeons. Dungeons are super easy now to be honest. You get two gaurds, or a guard and ele, nothing lives long. If people are arguing that dungeons are harder now due to downscaling, then I really do not know what to say about that. I have run all paths in AC, a couple TA, and some COF and overall dungeons are super easy mode currently. Thank you stack able Flameing.

Get gud kasuals (/joke)

But tbh, after getting used to the dps loss, I didn’t have much trouble. Just takes a bit longer and I sometimes actually need a dodge (instead of rolling for giggles and/or boons). Maybe with a slightly tougher pve I’ll get troops who know how to fight and not get wrecked 7 versus 2 (albeit against mesmers) =P

Speed clearing dungeons is probably the hardest hit from this tbh, but I don’t know to what degree…

BTW Grimm, you are awesome Roll the Bones.

i always thought down scaling should make lvl 80s weaker than they had been and 80s shouldn’t be able to 1 shot everything.

it helps keep the rest of the world worth having events occur in. i like the direction they’ve taken it

No, Brother Grimm, for example i say some feedback on this system overall. In my opinion it is broken overall now, since gear is scaling to exact green items that you can get in this location. And the is a problem not with scaling itself. It’s with scaling in what items exactly. This system now doesnt save the rarity of the items, that’s the problem. With that i have a feeling that all asc/exo gear i crafted/grinded just puff gone and my character has the same stats as if i’d never got these items.

Excattly what level down are you feeling weak, cause is not the weakest dungeon level 40 anyways?

We’ve seen this before, and it was patched out. I always thought that back then it was a trial balloon, and in the face of negative reaction it was deemed unsuitable.

I guess I was wrong.

Some people crow endlessly about “nerf to players but a HUUUUUUUGE buff to fun”, I personally dislike my 80s being on par or lower with lowbies in all greens as soon as I show up in low-level areas.

Gorani.7205:

I did Ascalon Catacombs yesterday and it actually was fun again, because you did not kill everything super fast and had to make effort to kill some bosses.

…which ones?

Gorani.7205:

It is perfectly fine that you can’t proc every on crit sigil 100% of the time, in time.

Getting from 60% to 10% is going a bit overboard, though.

Gorani.7205:

Also, zerker gear people finally see that stack and might slashing does not work all the time and they have to evade or dodge once in a while.

Lolnope, nothing has changed in this regard. It’s the “effect on crit” builds, not direct dps, that are affected the most.

Gorani.7205:

I have the impression that maxed out lvl 80s in dungeons now are not too superior compared to masterwork or rare item wearing lower level characters that actually have the right level for the map.

Since the downscaling is affected by how close you are to the best gear you can have for your level, and levelling up characters usually wear stuff that is several levels (and often a whole tier) behind, downscaling actually affects them even more negatively than level 80’s.

Xdmatt.3958:

We’ve seen this before, and it was patched out. I always thought that back then it was a trial balloon, and in the face of negative reaction it was deemed unsuitable.

I guess I was wrong.

Some people crow endlessly about “nerf to players but a HUUUUUUUGE buff to fun”, I personally dislike my 80s being on par or lower with lowbies in all greens as soon as I show up in low-level areas.

so your upset your not a god among the new players, you have to put in the effort to kill something like they do? well still stronger then them, because your gear being better, and never needs to be replaced, or at least it how i feel when i visit low areas.

i think that’s great system now, and it is training high lvl players to be more skilled, then low lvl, giving them opportunity to train, not to degrade

A system which provides for scaled mobs (rather than scaled players) was in use a long time ago in the late City of X games. Players of very different levels could face these mobs side-by-side and mob numbers would adjust depending on the level of the character that was attacking or being attacked. Iirc, the mobs had some sort of icon instead of a number to indicate their level and were used during events. Whether this is possible with the game engine ANet is using in GW2 I have no idea. It seems like engine issues get cited frequently as a reason why ANet cannot do something in GW2 that other, older games can do.

dobri.7820:

1) crit chanse is not affected by down scaling
2) u need to have apropriate equipment for your level! (-5lvl max)
not for the zone you are in
lest all 80’s do AC in 35lv armors LoL

saing “I don’t have level apropriate weapons and armor and I’m punished”
is as it is supposed to be

get some 3silver greens on TP and be done

It’s stupid that you have to constantly do that.

But more importantly, people don’t do that. People do not understand the system and we can’t just make everyone understand it. As a result you have level 60s with 45 gear trying to get into AC groups and then they get 1 shot by the mini spiders in the first fight. This is why dungeon groups always want level 80s.

Gorani.7205:

I did Ascalon Catacombs yesterday and it actually was fun again, because you did not kill everything super fast and had to make effort to kill some bosses.
It is perfectly fine that you can’t proc every on crit sigil 100% of the time, in time.
Also, zerker gear people finally see that stack and might slashing does not work all the time and they have to evade or dodge once in a while.

Complaints about “having to constantly upgrade your gear” are irrelevant. If you can prevail with easily with low level gear (lets say 10 levels lower than the map requirements), than that is the problem.

I have the impression that maxed out lvl 80s in dungeons now are not too superior compared to masterwork or rare item wearing lower level characters that actually have the right level for the map.

I hate to break it to you, but your group was just weak.

I’ve been doing AC multiple times a day since the patch and my groups still tear through everything. Perhaps slightly slower, but I certainly wouldn’t call anything in that dungeon challenging.

I feel like a lot of players are being misled or are misunderstanding that nobody is against downscaling or wanna be able to just roflstomp throught areas.

Were just saying that when a downscaled lvl80 is weaker than a person of the right level for the content because of a flawed and flat algorythm, somethings obviously broken.
The downscaling is supposed to make the two players equals in lower level areas, not put down the lvl80 one.

IndigoSundown.5419:

A system which provides for scaled mobs (rather than scaled players) was in use a long time ago in the late City of X games. Players of very different levels could face these mobs side-by-side and mob numbers would adjust depending on the level of the character that was attacking or being attacked. Iirc, the mobs had some sort of icon instead of a number to indicate their level and were used during events. Whether this is possible with the game engine ANet is using in GW2 I have no idea. It seems like engine issues get cited frequently as a reason why ANet cannot do something in GW2 that other, older games can do.

This. All mobs should be default level 80 and for each individual player, they should be scaled downwards as appropriate. Mobs don’t have builds that break under scaling. Players do. So mobs should be the ones who are scaled.

eldrin.6471:

1 lvl 11 mobs(eagle raptor) is now able to kill a lvl 80 warrior in full ascended nights gear that’s using healing signet.is this to stop us afk in low lvl area.
how does ltp work when you are afk?

So basically you want to afk in low-level areas and out-heal the damage? And now you’re mad that you can’t?

I think we can all leave this thread now and close it, nothing to see here.

I feel like almost no one would want there to be no downscaling – that wouldn’t be fair to lower level players and it wouldn’t be fun, either.

But, I think it’s important that the downscaling be adjusted such that if you are a higher level than the area you are in, that you are always stronger than you were in that area when you were lower level.

I am comfortable admitting that I am not very good at this. This is pretty much my first game, why should I expect to be good, no big deal. I’m a lot better than when I started, though, and I don’t know if that would have happened, or if I would have stuck with it, without the ability to level up through exploration and crafting until I was a higher level than what I was trying to do so that it became easier.

I don’t need that as much anymore, but I’m sure lots of people do, especially since there will be a lot of new players soon, and it’s a natural reaction when you’re struggling to go back to a lower level area because it should be easier (not challenge-less easy, just, easier than it was the first time around).

I’ve actually been so distracted by Lion’s Arch that I’ve hardly been anywhere else recently so I’m not commenting on whether I feel the current downscaling goes too far or not, I just want to remind people that this is also a consideration.

eldrin.6471:

my point was that before the patch healing sig could out heal the dmg now it cant.
in fact before the patch it could out heal the dmg from 3 eagle raptors. Thats a big difference and since this is a discussion about broken down scaling i thought it relevant.

And maybe the healing signet out healing the damage is the very thing ANet changed downscaling to stop.

Don’t AFK in areas where there are enemies unless you don’t mind coming back to being dead or having broken/damaged armor.

Teevell.1684:

eldrin.6471:

1 lvl 11 mobs(eagle raptor) is now able to kill a lvl 80 warrior in full ascended nights gear that’s using healing signet.is this to stop us afk in low lvl area.
how does ltp work when you are afk?

So basically you want to afk in low-level areas and out-heal the damage? And now you’re mad that you can’t?

I think we can all leave this thread now and close it, nothing to see here.

Nope im not mad,just pointing out a fact that I considered relevant to the discussion.
but buy the looks of it you have no interest in the discussion.

I thought downscaling was perfect before the patch. Why they changed it exactly ?

I didnt notice that downscaling is broken. I know that I am killing dungeon mobs faster than before. Maybe because they incrised condition stack limit to 1400

I like the new downscaling and the added challenge it brings to open world.

Khristophoros.7194:

Crit Chance – When your crit chance is lower, it’s not just your damage that drops. You also proc things less often. If you design a build with a crit procs you get them far less often while you’re downscaled. This is an unecessary penalty for being higher leveled than the area. The whole point of the system is to make it so you don’t 1 shot everything and you can take enough damage from mobs to actually care about them hitting you. It doesn’t need to ruin the functionality of sigils and traits.

Crit chance its lower for low levels, so when you are downscaled its intended you get less crit chance, if a low level have a trait that benefits from crit chance he have the same situation than you.

The extra traits you get for difference in level (been crit chance based or not) are a plus, even if they dont function at their fullest, you are getting a power up against the content that its designed for lower levels.

Khristophoros.7194:

Item levels – This is a huge problem with leveling up characters. When your gear is sufficient for the area, but your character level surpasses the area, your gear suffers the same downscaling as your base stats. This makes the gear worse than the area, so you need to constantly update your gear as you level up or else you end up weaker than the level you get downscaled to. This is also totally unnecessary and goes outside the scope of the original purpose of the system.

This one its totally legit, not working as intended, they could perfect downscaling if it take consideration of gear level and players base stats separetly, but it will be more complicated for the numbers of pieces. Hoping they fix this.

Snow.2048:

…..
BTW Grimm, you are awesome Roll the Bones.

Just saw them in New Orleans a month ago….still put on quite a show after 40+ years.

Lucius.2140:

Khristophoros.7194:

Crit Chance – When your crit chance is lower, it’s not just your damage that drops. You also proc things less often. If you design a build with a crit procs you get them far less often while you’re downscaled. This is an unecessary penalty for being higher leveled than the area. The whole point of the system is to make it so you don’t 1 shot everything and you can take enough damage from mobs to actually care about them hitting you. It doesn’t need to ruin the functionality of sigils and traits.

Crit chance its lower for low levels, so when you are downscaled its intended you get less crit chance, if a low level have a trait that benefits from crit chance he have the same situation than you.

The extra traits you get for difference in level (been crit chance based or not) are a plus, even if they dont function at their fullest, you are getting a power up against the content that its designed for lower levels.

It’s unnecessary though. The other players aren’t affected by how often you can proc things. The only thing that matters is that the high level character doesn’t 1 shot everything so that everyone has a chance to participate in kills.

It also kinda matters that the high level character is able to take damage and there is a possibility of them going down, but it doesn’t matter as much.

The system should not do anything other than those two things.

I think Downscale is fine, what i think is that its there for a reason. From there perspective i would think this, Why would we let everyone that is lvl 80 be level 80 in every other zone? Consequences would be that the level 80s rampaging around would be killing monsters in a couple of shots. New players or veteran players that are leveling up there new character through Hearts or Dungeons would have a hard time trying to level up. Mainly because of what i said above “level 80s rampaging around killing things in a couple of shots.” Down scaling is meant to nullify current level 80 stats and make it so that they are on the same level of stats as others <x-Level[zone]>. Then again that is just my opinion on the Down Scaling which is totally fine as it is.

hey you guys saying ‘the downscaling is fine, l2p,’ the problem isn’t being downscaled to the level of the content. the problem is being downscaled to /below/ the level of the content despite having the best possible gear at level 80

case in point:
i’m doing AC p1 on my ~60 warrior with nothing but the random crap gear i got from leveling. that said, i’d been prioritizing power/prec stat gear when given the choice. i’m playing with lv80 players fully geared, including two eles. naturally on th edef hodgins burrow room, the eles drop ice bows. on my ~60 warrior i manage to completely kill burrows using #4 alone (ice storm) with 3-6 might stacks, and with no might, get them to at least 90%.

meanwhile, i watch a fully geared ele pull off a full #4 and only get the burrow to 50% of its health with full zerk gear (which is power stat main, the only stat which matters for objects like burrows). i desperately try to buff them with might and strength banner, but it seems to have little effect. meanwhile, this ele is taking massive damage from gravelings and dying in seconds. at first i assumed it was an L2p, so i got on my own lv80, full exotic/ascended zerk ele and try it myself. same thing. ~50% burrow health with one IB#4 vs 90-100% on a lv~60. somehow i have worse damage on my lv80 full gear than my lv~60 with garbage gear using the same skill

i’m hoping for more research on this, but some tepid experimentation has verified this baffling result

https://whyigame.wordpress.com/2015/06/27/gw2-i-think-downscaling-is-borked/

downscaling isn’t the problem. whatever algorithms they’re using to calculate the downscaling is the problem. lv80s shouldn’t be getting punished for being level 80 and having the best possible gear by being nerfed to the point they are out-damaged by an undergeared underlevel.

From My experience I havent even noticed these changes..

Dungeons if anything are even faster and easier than they were before and my healing skills are working perfectly fine

My characters are more powerful than they have ever been before
I soloed The Spider Queen in AC the other day with my Necromancer..
and almost did it with my Warrior the day before and I was just testing out new builds..

I don’t know where these downscaling arguments are coming from but personally I don’t see them at all..
if anything im more powerful in low level areas than I was before

My Zerker Ranger longbow with 6 might and frost spirit can solo a Gravling burrow in AC and take care of the mobs coming out with just a barrage and rapid fire combination..

perhaps the problem you are having with Ice bow is the speed and target cap (I think it has one) since it hits gravelings more than the burrow.. which is not a problem I get with my Ranger since my Arrows Pierce and they get blitzed down seconds after they spawn

I’ll need to make some more test but in some situations a lvl 80 in full exotic have weaker stats (especially power) than, let say, a lvl 12 when the 80’s is downscaled to 12. Even if both have power gear. I understand that people are absolutely anti vertical progression here but there’s some limit…

Totally agree. It is terrible stupid now, I have crit chance more than 60% in level 80 – and only about 10% in level 1 – 15 map. Critical dmg more than 200% in level 80 map and only about 100% in tier 1 map. It simply sux. Dungeons like Sorrow embrance and lower are unplayable now. All combat mechanic is broken because you have high crit chance and have another bonuses – on crit runes, traits. If crit chance is 10%… facepalm milion times anet!!!

Mafusail.9305:

The point of that system is not to god kitten make highlvl characters equal to lowlvl. The point is to make them be able to help lowlvl players without lowlvl ones feel too slow/squishy/weak.

It must bring the feeling that "yes, i remember that times, but hey, i dont really want them back. WTF i grinded all my asc/exo gear? For what? To be killed by some bronze

Nope. The point of downscalling is so high level characters are equal to low level characters and thus still have a challenge in low level areas. I couldn’t care less for how much of your time you have wasted grinding, if you had a challenge fighting a bronze enemy as a level 12, you should still have a challenge fighting the same bronze enemy at level 80. The higher level isn’t an excuse for you to run around one shooting champions for free loot.

doomaster.5120:

It simply sux. Dungeons like Sorrow embrance and lower are unplayable now.

100% l2p issue.

Test.8734:

Nope. The point of downscalling is so high level characters are equal to low level characters and thus still have a challenge in low level areas. I couldn’t care less for how much of your time you have wasted grinding, if you had a challenge fighting a bronze enemy as a level 12, you should still have a challenge fighting the same bronze enemy at level 80. The higher level isn’t an excuse for you to run around one shooting champions for free loot.

Downscaling was there before the patch and nobody was one shooting champions ?

Too much exaggeration on both sides.

There’s the “it’s the same as before” guys

and the “OMG EVERYTINGH IS UNPLAYABLE” guys

You’re both wrong.

Khristophoros.7194:

Lucius.2140:

Khristophoros.7194:

Crit Chance – When your crit chance is lower, it’s not just your damage that drops. You also proc things less often. If you design a build with a crit procs you get them far less often while you’re downscaled. This is an unecessary penalty for being higher leveled than the area. The whole point of the system is to make it so you don’t 1 shot everything and you can take enough damage from mobs to actually care about them hitting you. It doesn’t need to ruin the functionality of sigils and traits.

Crit chance its lower for low levels, so when you are downscaled its intended you get less crit chance, if a low level have a trait that benefits from crit chance he have the same situation than you.

The extra traits you get for difference in level (been crit chance based or not) are a plus, even if they dont function at their fullest, you are getting a power up against the content that its designed for lower levels.

It’s unnecessary though. The other players aren’t affected by how often you can proc things. The only thing that matters is that the high level character doesn’t 1 shot everything so that everyone has a chance to participate in kills.

It also kinda matters that the high level character is able to take damage and there is a possibility of them going down, but it doesn’t matter as much.

The system should not do anything other than those two things.

Its not about one shot or been capable to be killed.

Its about trying to put you as down as the level of the area, that includes making your dps and survivility so low that you are basically at the same condition as a low level.

Thats because the main reason for downscaling wasnt to make low levels not been affected by higher ones; what downscaling tries is that the area is as challenging (as this game can) as it was when you was a low level.

Now taking that in count, crit chance not only change the direct damage but also have effects in character survivility and damage via traits and sigils. Like a mesmer that traited in dueling gets vigor on crits (meaning more dodges= more survivility) and bleeds on crits (more dps).

Lucius.2140:

Khristophoros.7194:

Lucius.2140:

Khristophoros.7194:

Crit Chance – When your crit chance is lower, it’s not just your damage that drops. You also proc things less often. If you design a build with a crit procs you get them far less often while you’re downscaled. This is an unecessary penalty for being higher leveled than the area. The whole point of the system is to make it so you don’t 1 shot everything and you can take enough damage from mobs to actually care about them hitting you. It doesn’t need to ruin the functionality of sigils and traits.

Crit chance its lower for low levels, so when you are downscaled its intended you get less crit chance, if a low level have a trait that benefits from crit chance he have the same situation than you.

The extra traits you get for difference in level (been crit chance based or not) are a plus, even if they dont function at their fullest, you are getting a power up against the content that its designed for lower levels.

It’s unnecessary though. The other players aren’t affected by how often you can proc things. The only thing that matters is that the high level character doesn’t 1 shot everything so that everyone has a chance to participate in kills.

It also kinda matters that the high level character is able to take damage and there is a possibility of them going down, but it doesn’t matter as much.

The system should not do anything other than those two things.

Its not about one shot or been capable to be killed.

Its about trying to put you as down as the level of the area, that includes making your dps and survivility so low that you are basically at the same condition as a low level.

Thats because the main reason for downscaling wasnt to make low levels not been affected by higher ones; what downscaling tries is that the area is as challenging (as this game can) as it was when you was a low level.

Now taking that in count, crit chance not only change the direct damage but also have effects in character survivility and damage via traits and sigils. Like a mesmer that traited in dueling gets vigor on crits (meaning more dodges= more survivility) and bleeds on crits (more dps).

That isn’t how it worked on release or for years after, so why do you think it was supposed to? I don’t think many people want that either.

I think most people want their high level character they put time into to feel powerful. Ironically now my high level characters feel powerful in level 80 zones and mediocre in mid level zones.

cheerleader.4980:

https://whyigame.wordpress.com/2015/06/27/gw2-i-think-downscaling-is-borked/

downscaling isn’t the problem. whatever algorithms they’re using to calculate the downscaling is the problem. lv80s shouldn’t be getting punished for being level 80 and having the best possible gear by being nerfed to the point they are out-damaged by an undergeared underlevel.

That’s exactly the problem right now. Downscaling is a nice feature but the implementation is kitten. If i’m leveling 1-80 in 70 hours and i go back to queensdale, i don’t want to be weaker than i was 70 hours ago in the same zone. That make zero sense. Doesn’t matter that my character have more skills unlocked, he’s still weaker (base stats).

Kennedys.3490:

cheerleader.4980:

https://whyigame.wordpress.com/2015/06/27/gw2-i-think-downscaling-is-borked/

downscaling isn’t the problem. whatever algorithms they’re using to calculate the downscaling is the problem. lv80s shouldn’t be getting punished for being level 80 and having the best possible gear by being nerfed to the point they are out-damaged by an undergeared underlevel.

That’s exactly the problem right now. Downscaling is a nice feature but the implementation is kitten. If i’m leveling 1-80 in 70 hours and i go back to queensdale, i don’t want to be weaker than i was 70 hours ago in the same zone. That make zero sense. Doesn’t matter that my character have more skills unlocked, he’s still weaker (base stats).

This

YES!!!!!

Btw……if you dont see the huge difference in how this downscaling works and normal………Then try to beat a explore path with full lvl 35 idc if 10k+ AP…..You will still fail so hard since you cant stack anywhere and every single strike is almost a kill, and every trap seems to be a kill :P……

The whole play as a lvl 80 on a lvl 35 dungeon got a bit boring to me.

I’ve noticed the big difference in this discussion is that some are talking about open world and some are talking about dungeons…two different parts of the game, but both PvE and both work slightly differently: i.e…some people have problems with it and some don’t…seems typical of almost everything, not going to please everyone.

If downscaling is really that broken then I shouldn’t have been able to solo TA Spider path last night

But I did.. and with a full Zerker Ranger

And before that I Soloed Spider Queen (again) in AC without taking any dmg and my Jungle Stalker Tanked her never loosing more than 15% of his HP..

Downscaling is most definitely not broken.. and what we do loose in stats we make up for in pure Build power..

having 3 full Traitlines makes you more powerful/capable even in downscaled areas than Raw stat power ever did

Lopez.7369:

Explorable dungeon paths should all be level 80. If ArenaNet wants to allow low-level players to do them, use upscaling instead.

I don’t know about that.. but all of the Story modes at least should be soloable

that would make soo much more sense most experienced runners never want to do them and newer players are too put off doing them because you need 5 people

Arah Story has been changed due to Personal Story..

well the Buildup to Arah (aka the other dungeons story modes) are also part of that same storyline.. and indirectly the personal story
it makes more sense if all dungeon paths become Solo.. make them a little challenging but designed to be soloable.. that scale upto their original (current) difficulty if you take a party with you

Teratus.2859:

If downscaling is really that broken then I shouldn’t have been able to solo TA Spider path last night

But I did.. and with a full Zerker Ranger

And before that I Soloed Spider Queen (again) in AC without taking any dmg and my Jungle Stalker Tanked her never loosing more than 15% of his HP..

Downscaling is most definitely not broken.. and what we do loose in stats we make up for in pure Build power..

having 3 full Traitlines makes you more powerful/capable even in downscaled areas than Raw stat power ever did

I think you don’t understand what is broken. It has nothing to do with the content being too hard now, everything is faceroll in this game anyway, downscaled or not. Read this post and then tell me it’s not broken.

https://whyigame.wordpress.com/2015/06/27/gw2-i-think-downscaling-is-borked/

Good morning everyone, I am the author of the blog post being linked here (much appreciation for the linkage.)

In the interests of TL;DR, what we are talking about here is equivalency.

An on-level character appears to be significantly stronger than a downscaled 80 at around level ranges 40 and lower, due to changes in how Power is downscaled and how Precision converts into Crit Chance.

(At 50-60, a downscaled 80 is stats-wise a little weaker, but between trait synergy on the 80 and leveling characters often falling behind in gear, it is arguably more or less equivalent. At around 70 and up, the 80 is likely to be stronger if traited well, as the stats didn’t change much between old and new downscaling.)

It is possible that a good traits selection on the 80 can make up for this, but then this does reduces the diversity of “viable” builds if so.

If stats are stronger on the low level, then as long as the low level gets enough hero points to recreate a similar build, that low level will still outperform the downscaled 80.

Makes sense? I’m not sure. You tell me.

Furthermore, we may want to consider that the more OP builds of this new patch may be brought back in line down the road, which would make the disparity more noticeable, if not highlighted now and adjusted at the same time.

I didn’t spend hundreds of gold on ascended equipment and many hours leveling to be no better (and even worse) than an on-level character. I understand why downscaling in the entry level PvE maps needed to change, but in the dungeons and mid-level maps too? It’s too extreme right now. Find a better formula for downscaling.

I don’t expect to be able to one- or two-shot enemies, but if I’m downscaled, I shouldn’t have to hit them more than a handful times to kill them (unless they’re champs or world bosses). I also shouldn’t be getting one- or two-shotted by enemies (unless they’re champs or world bosses) when I’m downscaled.

Kennedys.3490:

I think you don’t understand what is broken. It has nothing to do with the content being too hard now, everything is faceroll in this game anyway, downscaled or not. Read this post and then tell me it’s not broken.

https://whyigame.wordpress.com/2015/06/27/gw2-i-think-downscaling-is-borked/

Ok so Your stats are lower.. I get it

what I don’t get however is why this is such a big deal..

a lvl 20 in a 20 zone has a stat buff compared to a 80.. but the 80 has access to 3 traitlines not to mention a ton more skills that the 20 will not..

My 80 warrior is still more powerful than any level 20 Warriors in a 20 zone because he’s practically invincible in low level areas (any many higher level for that matter too) thanks to his build
and even with the reduction to power he still rips through mobs in any low level zone

Like you said if the content is still soo easy even with the downscale then honestly there is nothing to complain about at all and this is a completley pointless issue..

Now If your level 80 was getting destroyed by Moa Brids then I’d agree with you that there is a problem lol

Teratus.2859:

If downscaling is really that broken then I shouldn’t have been able to solo TA Spider path last night

But I did.. and with a full Zerker Ranger

And before that I Soloed Spider Queen (again) in AC without taking any dmg and my Jungle Stalker Tanked her never loosing more than 15% of his HP..

Downscaling is most definitely not broken.. and what we do loose in stats we make up for in pure Build power..

having 3 full Traitlines makes you more powerful/capable even in downscaled areas than Raw stat power ever did

You are missing the point of the thread.

Downscaling screws over non-80 characters (such as levels 50-70 trying to do AC) and encourages the character level elitism in dungeon groups.

L2P, sorry, but its true.

My 80 elementalist is able to stand in any zone and never die if I afk in water. I can blow up anything, but group events can be challenging. This feels balanced to me.