Guild Wars 2

Fixing the forum bug

Seera.5916:

Frenchtoastersticks.8061:

Seera.5916:

Frenchtoastersticks.8061:

why are all of you shooting down inspections. all the OP wants is to view another players SKINS without having to whisper and hope they are nice enough to link their gear.

inspections for skins NOT gear is not going to break the game. it is fashionwars afterall.

He didn’t specify that it was just for skins. He just said inspections and that he’d use it for skins.

“Inspections would be really useful because a lot of times I see someone with some amazing gear and I think “Ooh what is that”, but usually when I whipser them to ask they ignore me :/ Inspections please!”

the lack of stating he wants to see gear is effectively the same as specifying just for skins. which means that all people screaming “INSPECTIONS ARE GAME BREAKING” are completely overlooking what OP’s suggestion actually was. Inspecting stats was not suggested. inspecting skins was suggested. This doesn’t mean OP might not enjoy that feature, but it isnt what they explicitly suggested.

But at the same time, he didn’t specify that so you can’t get on others for commenting on the other half of what inspection could do.

I would say that since he didn’t explicitly state that he would want skin only inspections, that it includes stats. Because stats included is the norm for inspections, is it not? So I would assume that if not explicitly stated as skin-only, that the inspection tool wanted would be skin & stat.

OP specifically wants to see skins and thats all they asked for. screaming GAME BREAKING PLS NO destroys a perfectly good suggestion without adding anything constructive. “inspection” doesnt need to be a trigger word to shoot down an idea instantly. seriously how hard is it to just say “inpections are fine if you cant see stats ever” instead of acting like inspections are the apocalypse.

As if ArenaNet would not give us the option to disable these features if they ever bothered to implement them. They care more about keeping the elitism away from the casuals than any other developer that I have seen. As that seems to be the only real issue people have with dueling and inspection.
Besides, it is just so typical to have people scream “NO” without considering anyone else who would enjoy and greatly benefit from certain additions to the game.

We could give many reason why those features would improve the game but that seems to be so pointless when people simply answer “Don’t care. This one guy kept challenging me to duel in the past and I hated it”.

In any case, people opposed raids just as much and we still got them in the end. I am actually still surprised about that.

Seera.5916:

I would say that since he didn’t explicitly state that he would want skin only inspections, that it includes stats.

No idea why you would say that. It was clear to me that the OP had seen some armour or weapon and just wanted to know what it was. I see this happen quite a lot in local chat whilst waiting for a WB, someone will say “I love your shield, what is it?” and the response would be the name of whatever skin. The stats of the shield are totally irrelevant and I can transmute any shield of my own with any stats to that skin.

Can’t say I feel strongly about an inspect option, I play with my graphics turned down so outside of a few shiny bits of gear I can’t see what people are wearing/using and I don’t care either. Rest of it – duel = no, vehicles = dead horse please.

Duels

Already a thing. The Hotjoin community is sad that you’re not utilizing the service they provide. You should go duel someone to apologize.

Inspections

Already a thing. Shift+click your gear. Very simple. You could also get on voice chat if this level of coordination is needed.

Vehicals

We have several. Could always use more. I want a charr motorcycle with cool jump on/jump off animations.

CETheLucid.3964:

Duels

Already a thing. The Hotjoin community is sad that you’re not utilizing the service they provide. You should go duel someone to apologize.

Inspections

Already a thing. Shift+click your gear. Very simple. You could also get on voice chat if this level of coordination is needed.

Vehicals

We have several. Could always use more. I want a charr motorcycle with cool jump on/jump off animations.

I wonder if you’d also say nobody should ask for another expansion since we already have the rare Living Story updates.

Having to go to a dedicated servers that locks you away from everyone while you participate in your duels is not the same. That is stuff that I do to practice against my friends or other people.
It is still not what we are talking about. Doesn’t allow you to duel while you are waiting for something or someone and allows only a very limited numbers of players to be on one server and has even less room for spectators.

The ability to link any gear you can copy from the wiki is a very cheap version of an actual inspection feature. It comes with way more problems than inspection with the
added bonus of people using it to fake stuff. Nobody should be happy with it.

Pretty sure people imagine mounts to be a faster way of traveling than simple running. The toys are just a cosmetic thing. Don’t really care about mounts, but there is that.

All this talk about inspection causing “Elitism”. Nobody cares what gear or build you run unless you choose to join THEIR group, in which case they deserve ALL the tools necessary to make sure that players who join are up to their standards, how ever ridiculous or unnecessary they are. If you disagree with said standards, you can make YOUR OWN group.

That said, obviously there should be an option to disable all players from inspecting you, blocked people should not be able to inspect and it should be permanently disabled in any form of PvP.

As for dueling, balance doesn’t matter, it should be a fun non-competitive activity for those who want it, and those who don’t should have an option to disable all duel requests, and make it on by default for all i care. It’s way more convenient being able to initiate a duel on the spot rather then having to go somewhere else, especially when waiting for world bosses, events, or just waiting on your lfg group to fill up.

Henry.5713:

I wonder if you’d also say nobody should ask for another expansion since we already have the rare Living Story updates.

That doesn’t follow.

Henry.5713:

Having to go to a dedicated servers that locks you away from everyone while you participate in your duels is not the same. That is stuff that I do to practice against my friends or other people.
It is still not what we are talking about. Doesn’t allow you to duel while you are waiting for something or someone and allows only a very limited numbers of players to be on one server and has even less room for spectators.

Point is, you can duel. Just not in the way you’ve decided is acceptable to you.

You don’t want to duel in the way that it’s made possible. You want more of an open world thing, and Anet has already said they’re 100% opposed to the idea.

You’ll have to deal with it.

Henry.5713:

The ability to link any gear you can copy from the wiki is a very cheap version of an actual inspection feature. It comes with way more problems than inspection with the
added bonus of people using it to fake stuff. Nobody should be happy with it.

I can count on one hand the times anyone has tried to fake something for the purpose of getting into a gear check party.

It’s easy to tell when someone is trying to copy/paste gear or trophies, most of the variables are incorrect or might not even show up at all.

It’s a very good system. Most games don’t have something like it.

And again if it’s something needing such an amount of coordination, you’re better served getting on voice chat.

Henry.5713:

Pretty sure people imagine mounts to be a faster way of traveling than simple running. The toys are just a cosmetic thing. Don’t really care about mounts, but there is that.

No one wants P2W.

If the current mounts in game offered some kind of advantage over players who choose not to buy the mounts already in the game, people would lose their minds.

I propose the mounts should all have a skill that grants the swiftness buff to the user, being careful not to be better than the swiftness you can gain from weapons and traits.

Something like racial skills, but for the mounts that we already have in the game. And for future mounts that will be added to the game.

I don’t think anyone could have a problem with that, and the mounts that are already in the game will make you go faster.

Pretty cool, right?

I would be very interested in seeing a source indicating that Anet is 100% opposed to open world dueling. If nothing else it would be nice to be able to link it when topics such as this come up.

Ashen.2907:

I would be very interested in seeing a source indicating that Anet is 100% opposed to open world dueling. If nothing else it would be nice to be able to link it when topics such as this come up.

I don’t recall ever seeing a quote about dueling. The quote I have that I can link is for open world PvP and its that the game is not set up for having PvP on the PvE maps.

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/TemperHoof/072012/23486_Guild-Wars-2-Redefines-Open-World-PVP
The overall design for Guild Wars 2 does not support fully open world PvP and it would take a prohibitive amount of work to even make it possible. World versus world is our version of open world PvP, and while it isn’t ‘true’ open world PvP for more PvP purists, it does contain many of the elements that make world PvP so exciting. Hopefully it will mostly satisfy people that want open world PvP. — Mike Ferguson

Ashen.2907:

I would be very interested in seeing a source indicating that Anet is 100% opposed to open world dueling. If nothing else it would be nice to be able to link it when topics such as this come up.

Here’s one:

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/TemperHoof/072012/23486_Guild-Wars-2-Redefines-Open-World-PVP
The overall design for Guild Wars 2 does not support fully open world PvP and it would take a prohibitive amount of work to even make it possible. World versus world is our version of open world PvP, and while it isn’t ‘true’ open world PvP for more PvP purists, it does contain many of the elements that make world PvP so exciting. Hopefully it will mostly satisfy people that want open world PvP.— Mike Ferguson

CETheLucid.3964:

Henry.5713:

I wonder if you’d also say nobody should ask for another expansion since we already have the rare Living Story updates.

That doesn’t follow.

Thought that was pretty obvious, perhaps not.

Small updates might be updates and they might be good for what they are. They still are not even close to being what people are asking for when they want an actual expansion.
There will never be this huge explosion of content, complete trait reworks, simultaneous class and weapon additions, a ton of story and a lot more.
They will never cause the excitement or enjoyment people associate with an expansion.
In short, they are just a sorry excuse for what people love. Not including half of what makes many wish for the real thing. They simply aren’t and will never be the same thing.

People are not talking about Open World PvP when they mention dueling. Pretty much nothing more and nothing less than Costume Brawl with normal skills and weapons.
Actual Open World PvP would include ganking and factions even. I agree with this not belonging into Guild Wars 2 for what the game is. Duels are just friendly sparring between the heroes, though.
The devs already showed us how it could work during one of their streams prior to the expansion. Some might remember the two devs fighting in the HotM. Obviously nothing that would be impossible.

We can agree to disagree, I suppose. Don’t really see a reason why people should “deal with it” instead of voicing their concerns and opinions.

Henry.5713:

Having to go to a dedicated servers that locks you away from everyone while you participate in your duels is not the same. That is stuff that I do to practice against my friends or other people.

You don’t need an audience. If you do, seek help.

It is still not what we are talking about. Doesn’t allow you to duel while you are waiting for something or someone and allows only a very limited numbers of players to be on one server and has even less room for spectators.

Costume Brawl. There, it’s something to do. Solved.

The ability to link any gear you can copy from the wiki is a very cheap version of an actual inspection feature. It comes with way more problems than inspection with the
added bonus of people using it to fake stuff. Nobody should be happy with it.

“Someone fake-linked zerker gear to get into my dungeon speedrun and then linked their all-Cleric after we beat the boss and laughed. It happened once, but it hurt my feelings forever.”
Exactly the same logic you kewed about further up the page when the complaint was “I don’t want to be harassed by duelists who won’t take no for an answer.” Seems like ignoring the negatives when it’s something you want is pretty common.

No, no and no.

Thx for beating the dead horse a bit more, we sure as hell didn’t beat it enough.

Ashen.2907:

I would be very interested in seeing a source indicating that Anet is 100% opposed to open world dueling. If nothing else it would be nice to be able to link it when topics such as this come up.

100% opposed is a bit of a stretch. There was a blurb (that I’m too lazy to find :P) that had one of the devs on record to the effect of “At some point, we wanted an option for duels, but it’s not feasible.”

Rauderi.8706:

Henry.5713:

Having to go to a dedicated servers that locks you away from everyone while you participate in your duels is not the same. That is stuff that I do to practice against my friends or other people.

You don’t need an audience. If you do, seek help.

It is still not what we are talking about. Doesn’t allow you to duel while you are waiting for something or someone and allows only a very limited numbers of players to be on one server and has even less room for spectators.

Costume Brawl. There, it’s something to do. Solved.

The ability to link any gear you can copy from the wiki is a very cheap version of an actual inspection feature. It comes with way more problems than inspection with the
added bonus of people using it to fake stuff. Nobody should be happy with it.

“Someone fake-linked zerker gear to get into my dungeon speedrun and then linked their all-Cleric after we beat the boss and laughed. It happened once, but it hurt my feelings forever.”
Exactly the same logic you kewed about further up the page when the complaint was “I don’t want to be harassed by duelists who won’t take no for an answer.” Seems like ignoring the negatives when it’s something you want is pretty common.

Sorry, if that bothered you so much.

It is just so hard to stop myself from enjoying a dueling system that allows people to come together to have fun. Either by watching an interesting duel or by partaking in such. I will make sure to get the help I need. All of you guys who are into watching sports should also accompany me to the psychiatrist.

You must really dislike all of those mean elitist something fierce. Not even sure what to say.

as far as inspection goes you wouldnt get into a raid or fractal group without having full ascended. before you could get away with partially ascended in raids specifically cause the change isnt that much. but it would be if inspection was in.
source: wow.neverwinter, basically any mmo that has this.

@ Inculpatus/Fleshie

That MMORPG article is about open-world PvP, not dueling. These are two distinct features that are very different. It’s very possible to design a game that supports duels while avoiding full open PvP (see Champions Online as an example).

The last time I remember anyone from ANet mentioning dueling at all was this:

See around 14:10.

@IndigoSundown.5419

Yes, I’m aware that the post is about open world PvP (as I stated in my comment to you above). My guess is the problem is that the underlying structure of PvE maps are set up to be cooperative (players give boons to each other). If the underlying structure of PvE is cooperative then it may be unable to have PvP without it conflicting with the way PvE maps ‘sees’ players as cooperative. It may be difficult to set up PvP and also stop people from buffing each other while dueling.

If you notice, the PvP arenas in PvE are on guild hall maps which are not the same as regular PvE maps. (They are more like instances that you can waypoint to) and being not the same as regular PvE maps means that the underlying rules can be different to allow PvP.

Did you say capes?

Steven.9803:

Right because im WvW Im really gonna go out of my way to imspect someones gear so I can asure my dominance >.< you argument is hollow, they scale you up in WvW so you can fight level 80’s as a level 10. Inspection would make absolutlt no differance in pvp!

The so called “scaling up” in WvW is crap. If you come into WvW with an uplevel and expect to beat a level 80 player who is geared for WvW you will quickly realize just how poor the “upscaling” is. Ya you get the number 80 by your name… but you are NOT level 80 by any real stretch.

… and if you are level 10 or any level that can’t even use good exotic gear and weapons with decent stats then you will just be wiped by anyone, even the bad ones, in wvw that have at least the right level gear.

Henry.5713:

Thought that was pretty obvious, perhaps not.

Small updates might be updates and they might be good for what they are. They still are not even close to being what people are asking for when they want an actual expansion.

You should inform yourself. They’ve already released an expansion. It’s a safe bet they intend to do it again.

The Living World is not a traditional expansion so much as something that bridges us between them. They’re offered for free. They’re not the same thing.

That’s why what you originally insinuated doesn’t follow. I mean I know you’re trying to play gotcha with me, but you could at least try a little harder.

Henry.5713:

People are not talking about Open World PvP when they mention dueling. Pretty much nothing more and nothing less than Costume Brawl with normal skills and weapons.

So in other words, yes. You are talking about open world PvP. Cooler people then me have already linked the quote with regards to open world PvP.

I did misquote it, for that I apologize. They’re not ‘100% against it’. It’s not likely though. So you’ll have to deal with it.

You can get some of that experience from WvW roaming. It’s your killzones from Runescape, those areas you can’t travel through safely.

Because some PK randy and friends might show up and kick your teeth in.

Or hotjoin. Because there are plenty of 1v1 arenas. I can open the menu and pull a screen with confidence.

Everyone else is either also dueling or watching. There’s your audience.

Henry.5713:

We can agree to disagree, I suppose. Don’t really see a reason why people should “deal with it” instead of voicing their concerns and opinions.

Because some things can be changed and other things cannot.

Those things that can be changed should absolutely see debate. Some things are settled and it does no good to argue the issue.

Inspecting would simply ruin the community. Anet made some really good choices to prevent community in going full cancer and they should stick to that.
When I started to play GW I was baffled why you can’t inspect, trade, gank in open world, duel… but pretty fast I realised how much this means to keep the community civilised.
The moment you give players reasons/powers to shame, put down and insult other players based on the gear is the moment the community becomes cancerous.

If you argue that simple things like inspecting wouldn’t be massively abused just means you don’t really know how people work.

Add duelling to certain lvl 80 PvE maps. Would be awesome!

The current PvE is way too stale and duelling would add an extra layer that would make it more interesting.

If you don’t want to duel, you can simply choose not to.

I think cosmetic inspections would be a very welcome addition.
I’ve always found it strange how much of the endgame revolves around fashion, yet there is no quick and easy way to know what exactly others are wearing.
I see no downsides to inspecting what skins and dyes another player is using and being able to preview each piece on your own character.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

@IndigoSundown.5419

Yes, I’m aware that the post is about open world PvP (as I stated in my comment to you above). My guess is the problem is that the underlying structure of PvE maps are set up to be cooperative (players give boons to each other). If the underlying structure of PvE is cooperative then it may be unable to have PvP without it conflicting with the way PvE maps ‘sees’ players as cooperative. It may be difficult to set up PvP and also stop people from buffing each other while dueling.

If you notice, the PvP arenas in PvE are on guild hall maps which are not the same as regular PvE maps. (They are more like instances that you can waypoint to) and being not the same as regular PvE maps means that the underlying rules can be different to allow PvP.

Yet, in 2013, ANet thought it was possible to add duels. Then again, Colin also talked about adding capes in the same interview.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

@IndigoSundown.5419

Yes, I’m aware that the post is about open world PvP (as I stated in my comment to you above). My guess is the problem is that the underlying structure of PvE maps are set up to be cooperative (players give boons to each other). If the underlying structure of PvE is cooperative then it may be unable to have PvP without it conflicting with the way PvE maps ‘sees’ players as cooperative. It may be difficult to set up PvP and also stop people from buffing each other while dueling.

If you notice, the PvP arenas in PvE are on guild hall maps which are not the same as regular PvE maps. (They are more like instances that you can waypoint to) and being not the same as regular PvE maps means that the underlying rules can be different to allow PvP.

Yet, in 2013, ANet thought it was possible to add duels. Then again, Colin also talked about adding capes in the same interview.

Yep. It appears in both cases that it wasn’t possible, or at least without more work than they wanted to put in for either.

I remember a quote from long ago (and no, I didn’t save it) where a dev said they had people working on trying to add capes to the game. Nothing more was said after that. The likely conclusion is that they couldn’t make it work and very likely I would think, the same thing happened to plans to add dueling.

Yes to Open World PvP / Duels. Obviously limits would be needed so no world bosses are effected nor are any players, maybe an Arena in a map somewhere or a flagging system.

Yes to skin Inspections. I see no harm in this at all

Yes to a Charrcar and more travel toys. I see no harm in this either, essentially they are just skins anyway

DarcShriek.5829:

Did you say capes?

Now that you mention it, I thought something felt missing.