Guild Wars 2

Problems:
1. Two buddies/guildies/jerks kick others “because”.
2. Dungeon owner rage quits, all goes to pot.
3. Party remainds more of an airport – ppl fly in and out before you know it.

Solution
1.Rather then paying out the dungeon reward at end, split it among dungeon chests that appear after you’ve beaten certain dungeon bosses.

Each such chest is subject to “daily clear” detrimental rewards system – full reward on first loot, much smaller for next, untill next day.

2. Majority vote on kicking.
3. Ownerless dungeons, which you’re already implementing. But only when first two fixes are present!

Result
You get rewarded as you progress, if you get booted at 60% of dungeon completion, you already have at least 40% of rewards in your pocket if not full 60% (getting to chest before they kick you). Kicking lfg members before end boss to sneak guildies in won’t ring anyone’s bell, with measely 20% reward from this scam.

Ragequit leaders won’t crush the dungeon, “airport” parties will not see their final members get full reward, while all the previous got near zilch.

You can thank me later :>

thats far more compliated than just giving the owner immunity from kicks which is what we have now and works fine, if the owner leaves or d/cs then the instance doesnt have to close but he should be unkickable

Being a ranger that likes to employ different strategies vs bosses then “stack&whack” i’m the last guy to raise my hand against unkickable leaders.

But i know that there’s me, and there are ragequitters that send everyone packing cause they couldn’t take a wipe or two and were first to enter the dungeon.

Still majority of the problem is that reward is at end and how badly you get screwed when you’re kicked/leader disbands before that point is reached.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Being a ranger that likes to employ different strategies vs bosses then “stack&whack” i’m the last guy to raise my hand against unkickable leaders.

But i know that there’s me, and there are ragequitters that send everyone packing cause they couldn’t take a wipe or two and were first to enter the dungeon.

Still majority of the problem is that reward is at end and how badly you get screwed when you’re kicked/leader disbands before that point is reached.

we can fix that by making it so the leader who leaves does not end the instance but the leader can only leave of his own will or a disconnect, not by a kick

How does dropping end reward and spreading it work for fractal instances? The challenge is for groups to complete 3 + 1 boss fractal to qualify for end reward. There would be no need to finish the fractals set anymore if chance to get infused rings/ascended weap + armor chest/fractal skin are awarded before you complete all the challenges as farmers could just redo the easier first fractals.

Simply changing the kick system to majority would address the primary concern; however, we have been told that due to how the code is currently built that’s not an easy thing to change. Since the party coding is not neatly contained in one area, it’s not as simple as changing a variable or adding an if statement in a single place. From the sounds of things, that code might require some refactoring as well as tweaking, but that isn’t going to happen between now and the 9th.

Adjusting the rewards to further limit them could be extremely detrimental to dungeons as they presently stand. As it is, a lot of people don’t do them because they are “boring and unrewarding.” And by unrewarding, they mean they don’t get enough shinies.

Personally, I’d love to see them tweak the dungeons, and give me back my heroes. They don’t randomly kick me, berate me, or in general treat me like I’m somehow ‘less’ than them.

I’m not saying to limit the rewards. I’m saying to split them across the chests in dungeon with end result being exactly same, but paid out in chunks as you progress through the dungeon. I’ll edit first post to make it clearer.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

I’m not saying to limit the rewards. I’m saying to split them across the chests in dungeon with end result being exactly same, but paid out in chunks as you progress through the dungeon. I’ll edit first post to make it clearer.

then their is either no incentive to finish the dungeon or no nothing has changed at all because you still need to get all the way to the end to get the full reward

your solution is the worst one iv seen out of them all because it basically says “lets fix it by not dungeoning anymore” making it so its OK to get kicked early is not a solution its surrendering to the problem

My solution is pure justice – you did half of dungeon, then half of rewards (or roughly that number) are yours.

If you did whole, all rewards are yours.
Heck we could throw in small bonus reward at end (equal to one chest), but only if a member did fulll dungeon from start till finish. None of that for mid-joiners or kicked ones.
That is ofc with kicking system getting fixed in mind.

Dungeons used to give tokens at every boss, they changed it so people wouldn’t just run the first boss over and over.

Thus the detrimental reward system attached to chests. It’ll be full reward the first time, then running same boss over and over will give nothing meaningful token wise. Just like the current system. But split into chunks so there are not huge payoffs for joining right before end boss, and huge loss for being kicked before end boss.

You’re meant to be rewarded for completing the dungeon. In CoE for example, people could just kill the first alpha 3 times and get 20 tokens for each path instead of doing full runs as anet intended. Or I could solo the spider 3 times in ac and get fast tokens for each path.

Blix.8021:

Dungeons used to give tokens at every boss, they changed it so people wouldn’t just run the first boss over and over.

They could make it so the later bosses give you more tokens than the earlier ones, of course that won’t stop people running the first boss over and over but it would make it less profitable. This wouldn’t completely fix the kicking right before the end boss dies, but at least you get something even if you go straight after the first boss.

suffish.4150:

Blix.8021:

Dungeons used to give tokens at every boss, they changed it so people wouldn’t just run the first boss over and over.

They could make it so the later bosses give you more tokens than the earlier ones, of course that won’t stop people running the first boss over and over but it would make it less profitable. This wouldn’t completely fix the kicking right before the end boss dies, but at least you get something even if you go straight after the first boss.

They already have a system in place where you can only claim a “big” chest once a day per path. (kholar in ac, the burrows.) if you do p1 twice before reset, those chest won’t show up for you..

Even if you only do as far as kholar p1, and restart, it won’t be there.

Taygus.4571:

suffish.4150:

Blix.8021:

Dungeons used to give tokens at every boss, they changed it so people wouldn’t just run the first boss over and over.

They could make it so the later bosses give you more tokens than the earlier ones, of course that won’t stop people running the first boss over and over but it would make it less profitable. This wouldn’t completely fix the kicking right before the end boss dies, but at least you get something even if you go straight after the first boss.

They already have a system in place where you can only claim a “big” chest once a day per path. (kholar in ac, the burrows.) if you do p1 twice before reset, those chest won’t show up for you..

Even if you only do as far as kholar p1, and restart, it won’t be there.

I know. But I should only get tokens for actually completing the dungeon, not killing the spider 3 times for 3 different paths. You don’t get pristine fractal relics for doing swamp and ascalon and quitting. You shouldn’t get tokens for doing half a dungeon.

Best solution is to pay a 10G deposit, if some one gets kicked he wins the full pot! (20 to 50 gold) it will make dungeons a new dynamic experience of psychological warfare, love and trust however theres a catch to this game of fortune, if the dungeon is completed with the deposit intact Bob Sagett pops up out of nowhere and spins the wheel of fortune that either halves or doubles it.

After the thread of fate connects you’ll end up in a good ol’game of democracy: Split or Fight to the death: in this phase the 5 of you get to vote anonymously: Split: Yes-No,
No voters turn into enemy on the spot, ofcourse his survival would rely on backers so playing the maffia game will either make you or break you!

suffish.4150:

Blix.8021:

Dungeons used to give tokens at every boss, they changed it so people wouldn’t just run the first boss over and over.

They could make it so the later bosses give you more tokens than the earlier ones, of course that won’t stop people running the first boss over and over but it would make it less profitable. [..]

This problem is already fixed. Now u can get chest rewards only once per day per account.
Example: AC p1 have 3 chests and last reward. If u got in and run untill 2 chest and then u leave or got kicked u still have 2/3 of minor rewards and no major reward. On the next try u cant get first 2 chests cause u already have this rewards and u will get last 3d chest and major reward at the end.
I agree that it wont fix kick problem. But if last reward is splited among minor chests at least u will get something if u got kicked.

Blix.8021:

Taygus.4571:

suffish.4150:

Blix.8021:

Dungeons used to give tokens at every boss, they changed it so people wouldn’t just run the first boss over and over.

They could make it so the later bosses give you more tokens than the earlier ones, of course that won’t stop people running the first boss over and over but it would make it less profitable. This wouldn’t completely fix the kicking right before the end boss dies, but at least you get something even if you go straight after the first boss.

They already have a system in place where you can only claim a “big” chest once a day per path. (kholar in ac, the burrows.) if you do p1 twice before reset, those chest won’t show up for you..

Even if you only do as far as kholar p1, and restart, it won’t be there.

I know. But I should only get tokens for actually completing the dungeon, not killing the spider 3 times for 3 different paths. You don’t get pristine fractal relics for doing swamp and ascalon and quitting. You shouldn’t get tokens for doing half a dungeon.

I’m not agreeing with his suggestion.. ….(or disagreeing, totally indifferent to it, tbh.)

but if you did choose to do spider 3 times, you’ll only get enough tokens as if one path run, rather than if you had done all 3 paths.

Anyway, I just wanted to point out, it’s not like they could do it over and over again. Only once per path, per day.

Blix.8021:

Taygus.4571:

suffish.4150:

Blix.8021:

Dungeons used to give tokens at every boss, they changed it so people wouldn’t just run the first boss over and over.

They could make it so the later bosses give you more tokens than the earlier ones, of course that won’t stop people running the first boss over and over but it would make it less profitable. This wouldn’t completely fix the kicking right before the end boss dies, but at least you get something even if you go straight after the first boss.

They already have a system in place where you can only claim a “big” chest once a day per path. (kholar in ac, the burrows.) if you do p1 twice before reset, those chest won’t show up for you..

Even if you only do as far as kholar p1, and restart, it won’t be there.

I know. But I should only get tokens for actually completing the dungeon, not killing the spider 3 times for 3 different paths. You don’t get pristine fractal relics for doing swamp and ascalon and quitting. You shouldn’t get tokens for doing half a dungeon.

I think that you should get tokens (albeit it should be less than half the full amount) for doing half the dungeon, this is because if the owner leaves or you get kicked/anything else, you get a reward (even if only 15 tokens) for contributing to the party running the dungeon

I don’t understand why this needs “fixing?” How often do you people get kicked from parties? Go in, do dungeon, get tokens. Easy

Blix.8021:

I don’t understand why this needs “fixing?” How often do you people get kicked from parties? Go in, do dungeon, get tokens. Easy

I know right. I can’t even fathom how terrible you would need to be to get kicked.

The only time I have ever kicked someone or seem anyone kicked was this ranger who did not talk to us and would just run in circles by the entrance and do nothing else. After we cleared half the dungeon with 4 people, we gave up trying to get him to join us and kicked him.

What are you guys doing? running nomad’s gear and trying to face tank the boss by kiting him around? lol

Maybe in a perfect world were everyone shares the same opinion about everything you wouldn’t get kicked by unjustifiable reasons.

If you have a reasonable party, which I usually gain by starting my own LFG, you won’t encounter such things often.
But is it really that hard to imagine a player joining who thinks he/she knows how others are supposed to play and demands this to happen or else he/she vote kicks you with his buddy? And that is only 1 of the many scenarios that are unreasonable.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

My solution is pure justice – you did half of dungeon, then half of rewards (or roughly that number) are yours.

If you did whole, all rewards are yours.
Heck we could throw in small bonus reward at end (equal to one chest), but only if a member did fulll dungeon from start till finish. None of that for mid-joiners or kicked ones.
That is ofc with kicking system getting fixed in mind.

then your missing the point of the entire problem which is to prevent undeserved kicks not just say “well you got enough anyways so shut up and stop complaining” your solution has NOTHING to do with the problem

Duke Nukem.6783:

then your missing the point of the entire problem which is to prevent undeserved kicks not just say “well you got enough anyways so shut up and stop complaining” your solution has NOTHING to do with the problem

It has everything to do with the problem. Currently the system encourages scammers by promising a full payout for joining the end boss only, at cost of nothing for those who worked their butt off through full dungeon to get there only to get kicked by two jerks.

Kicking under majority vote is part of my solution. And dividing loot payout is another, that ensures people get rewarded for the progress they made so far, rather then see the finger after nearly whole, sometimes ardous run.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Duke Nukem.6783:

then your missing the point of the entire problem which is to prevent undeserved kicks not just say “well you got enough anyways so shut up and stop complaining” your solution has NOTHING to do with the problem

It has everything to do with the problem. Currently the system encourages scammers by promising a full payout for joining the end boss only, at cost of nothing for those who worked their butt off through full dungeon to get there only to get kicked by two jerks.

Kicking under majority vote is part of my solution. And dividing loot payout is another, that ensures people get rewarded for the progress they made so far, rather then see the finger after nearly whole, sometimes ardous run.

How would your proposed solution handle people that swap to an alt at the end for the experience? Or people that swap characters in the middle because a different class is needed? My guildies and I do this often because we duo or trio various dungeons so we don’t have to deal with pugs, and we may need to swap classes for a boss, or we swap in a much lower level alt to get the xp at the end. Would your solution recognize that this is the same account, just a different character and give full credit? Or would it screw the swapper over even though they aren’t technically doing anything wrong.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Duke Nukem.6783:

then your missing the point of the entire problem which is to prevent undeserved kicks not just say “well you got enough anyways so shut up and stop complaining” your solution has NOTHING to do with the problem

It has everything to do with the problem. Currently the system encourages scammers by promising a full payout for joining the end boss only, at cost of nothing for those who worked their butt off through full dungeon to get there only to get kicked by two jerks.

Kicking under majority vote is part of my solution. And dividing loot payout is another, that ensures people get rewarded for the progress they made so far, rather then see the finger after nearly whole, sometimes ardous run.

so how do this solution address party leader autonomy? or unjustified kicks? or party hijacking? or swamp stealing? cuz u kno they will still hijack for even reduced rewards, its not a good diea, it doesnt fix these problems.

@LanfearShadowflame.3189

Doesn’t the wallet do that for me already? Tokens, gold and shards are account -bound are they not? Doesn’t matter which one you use, they land in the same pocket in the end.

Also character swapping is cheesy (if only for making others wait for it) and i wouldn’t mind if it got cut down. If i wanted to level my low level, i simply did a run on it whole way through. Many of my 35 – 80 levels were made that way for my thief and ranger.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

@LanfearShadowflame.3189

Doesn’t the wallet do that for me already? Tokens, gold and shards are account -bound are they not? Doesn’t matter which one you use, they land in the same pocket in the end.

Also character swapping is cheesy (if only for making others wait for it) and i wouldn’t mind if it got cut down. If i wanted to level my low level, i simply did a run on it whole way through. Many of my 35 – 80 levels were made that way for my thief and ranger.

so YOU dont like character swapping so HE shouldnt do it? you are exactly what we are trying to protect ourselves from…..

And you offer solution that instead of 2 people kicking whole party gives that power to one! Well doesn’t that just beat all!

Give us Heroes/Henchies we can bring along. Problem solved. :-)

ZeftheWicked.3076:

@LanfearShadowflame.3189

Doesn’t the wallet do that for me already? Tokens, gold and shards are account -bound are they not? Doesn’t matter which one you use, they land in the same pocket in the end.

Depends on when you award them. If you get some here and there as you go along, sure. If you bundle all into some final end chest, possibly not. You suggestion makes it sound like all the rewards are bundled at the end, and that that end reward is dependent upon how long you were in the dungeon. Thus why I asked, would it recognize the same account, or would it simple recognize a different character, thus screwing over.

Also character swapping is cheesy (if only for making others wait for it) and i wouldn’t mind if it got cut down. If i wanted to level my low level, i simply did a run on it whole way through. Many of my 35 – 80 levels were made that way for my thief and ranger.

You may think it’s cheesy, and that’s fine. You don’t play with us. We typically don’t pug (though I do know a few pugs that do this as well). If done well, there actually isn’t any “waiting” unless the person lags. Generally speaking, we’re out and back in before the person not swapping finishes off the boss. Not by much, but we are.

I have 28 characters myself, not all are 80, as I just bought 3 more slots last night. However, I like to swap up how I level relatively often. Sometimes I map, sometimes I event chain, sometimes I swap at the end of dungeons, sometimes I run around EotM. There is nothing wrong with any of those options and Anet provided them intentionally so that people had options to level. What’s the point of all this? It simply proves that I play very differently than you while still remaining within the bounds of acceptability as set for by Anet. The fact that you want to specifically limit how I play, when it has no bearing on you, simply makes you a kitten.

Duke Nukem.6783:

so YOU dont like character swapping so HE shouldnt do it? you are exactly what we are trying to protect ourselves from…..

Pssst, I’m a “she”

Tachenon.5270:

Give us Heroes/Henchies we can bring along. Problem solved. :-)

+1

I’ve been asking / begging / pleading / raging for heroes since mere months after launch.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

And you offer solution that instead of 2 people kicking whole party gives that power to one! Well doesn’t that just beat all!

actually i didnt suggest the leader have any more power to kick, is that the impression you had?

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

ZeftheWicked.3076:

@LanfearShadowflame.3189

Doesn’t the wallet do that for me already? Tokens, gold and shards are account -bound are they not? Doesn’t matter which one you use, they land in the same pocket in the end.

Depends on when you award them. If you get some here and there as you go along, sure. If you bundle all into some final end chest, possibly not. You suggestion makes it sound like all the rewards are bundled at the end, and that that end reward is dependent upon how long you were in the dungeon. Thus why I asked, would it recognize the same account, or would it simple recognize a different character, thus screwing over.

Also character swapping is cheesy (if only for making others wait for it) and i wouldn’t mind if it got cut down. If i wanted to level my low level, i simply did a run on it whole way through. Many of my 35 – 80 levels were made that way for my thief and ranger.

You may think it’s cheesy, and that’s fine. You don’t play with us. We typically don’t pug (though I do know a few pugs that do this as well). If done well, there actually isn’t any “waiting” unless the person lags. Generally speaking, we’re out and back in before the person not swapping finishes off the boss. Not by much, but we are.

I have 28 characters myself, not all are 80, as I just bought 3 more slots last night. However, I like to swap up how I level relatively often. Sometimes I map, sometimes I event chain, sometimes I swap at the end of dungeons, sometimes I run around EotM. There is nothing wrong with any of those options and Anet provided them intentionally so that people had options to level. What’s the point of all this? It simply proves that I play very differently than you while still remaining within the bounds of acceptability as set for by Anet. The fact that you want to specifically limit how I play, when it has no bearing on you, simply makes you a kitten.

Duke Nukem.6783:

so YOU dont like character swapping so HE shouldnt do it? you are exactly what we are trying to protect ourselves from…..

Pssst, I’m a “she”

Tachenon.5270:

Give us Heroes/Henchies we can bring along. Problem solved. :-)

+1

I’ve been asking / begging / pleading / raging for heroes since mere months after launch.

heroes will not be able to handle some of the more complex dungeon tracks (good luck on ooze escort) also heroes were a very bad move for gw1 as a whole as it really took any social aspect out of the game for alot of people, they were convenient, but many players didnt see the decay it brought on slowly changing the game

Duke Nukem.6783:

heroes will not be able to handle some of the more complex dungeon tracks (good luck on ooze escort) also heroes were a very bad move for gw1 as a whole as it really took any social aspect out of the game for alot of people, they were convenient, but many players didnt see the decay it brought on slowly changing the game

Some of the dungeon paths might require some tweaking to be AI compatible, or those could be left to require people to group with others at least part of the time. Still, with the ability to flag/control heroes and having just a touch better AI, I think more would be doable than a lot of people think. People still insist that you can’t do UW HM with heroes when it’s been done. Its not easy, but it’s doable.

Honestly, I can’t blame heroes for the lack of socialization in GW1. Even when I came into GW1 at the dawn of Factions, there was less and less pugging as time progressed except in very specific instances (Vizunah, Grove, Unwaking). For the most part people preferred henchmen, they were at least “reliably stupid” and could be worked around. Sure you could find a couple of groups in most missions shouting “looking for” but even they just grabbed hench after a few minutes and carried on.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Problems:
1. Two buddies/guildies/jerks kick others “because”.
2. Dungeon owner rage quits, all goes to pot.
3. Party remainds more of an airport – ppl fly in and out before you know it.

Solution
1.Rather then paying out the dungeon reward at end, split it among dungeon chests that appear after you’ve beaten certain dungeon bosses.

Each such chest is subject to “daily clear” detrimental rewards system – full reward on first loot, much smaller for next, untill next day.

2. Majority vote on kicking.
3. Ownerless dungeons, which you’re already implementing. But only when first two fixes are present!

Result
You get rewarded as you progress, if you get booted at 60% of dungeon completion, you already have at least 40% of rewards in your pocket if not full 60% (getting to chest before they kick you). Kicking lfg members before end boss to sneak guildies in won’t ring anyone’s bell, with measely 20% reward from this scam.

Ragequit leaders won’t crush the dungeon, “airport” parties will not see their final members get full reward, while all the previous got near zilch.

You can thank me later :>

Not gonna happen, they “fixed” arah p3 so people couldn’t farm the first bosses by modifying the reward.

If all paths have the similar reward system people would just farm them and skip the time consuming parts (already happening with SE p1 right now, I’m really surprised Anet hasn’t “fixed” SE p1 yet lol).

Izaya.2906:

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Problems:
1. Two buddies/guildies/jerks kick others “because”.
2. Dungeon owner rage quits, all goes to pot.
3. Party remainds more of an airport – ppl fly in and out before you know it.

Solution
1.Rather then paying out the dungeon reward at end, split it among dungeon chests that appear after you’ve beaten certain dungeon bosses.

Each such chest is subject to “daily clear” detrimental rewards system – full reward on first loot, much smaller for next, untill next day.

2. Majority vote on kicking.
3. Ownerless dungeons, which you’re already implementing. But only when first two fixes are present!

Result
You get rewarded as you progress, if you get booted at 60% of dungeon completion, you already have at least 40% of rewards in your pocket if not full 60% (getting to chest before they kick you). Kicking lfg members before end boss to sneak guildies in won’t ring anyone’s bell, with measely 20% reward from this scam.

Ragequit leaders won’t crush the dungeon, “airport” parties will not see their final members get full reward, while all the previous got near zilch.

You can thank me later :>

Not gonna happen, they “fixed” arah p3 so people couldn’t farm the first bosses by modifying the reward.

If all paths have the similar reward system people would just farm them and skip the time consuming parts (already happening with SE p1 right now, I’m really surprised Anet hasn’t “fixed” SE p1 yet lol).

yea this creates more problems then it solves