Guild Wars 2

They’re “allowed” because they facilitate the the gold sink that is the trading post and everything is done with consent from both sides of the party.

If you want to stop trading post flippers then don’t sell to buy orders and only post sell orders…..simple as that. If no one sells to buy orders then flippers can’t flip.

BUT people like instant gratification so they take a hit in potential profit to have the money now and other people take advantage of this desire for immediate cash to make money investing time into the sale.

I totally agree with account bound on purchase

If one group of players can be held responsible for in game inflation, its dungeon runners because they handle the biggest gold faucet in the game.

Flippers actually take gold out of the economy and bring the price spread of an item closer together.

If you think flippers are the source of all evil, there are two simple things you can do to stop them:

Only buy your stuff through buy orders and never sell your stuff to the highest bidder.

Problem solved.

I have often thought about account bound TP purchases. I think I kinda agree. I get tired of TP flippers buying up things just to resell them at higher prices. I’m talking the buying up large quantities of item to make them rarer and thus driving up the price by slowly releasing their stock back into the tp.

I’m surprised so many people even sell to buy orders. I get more money from simply listing and I never have to wait long for my money, so yeah, not sure why people use this.

Trinnitty.8256:

I have often thought about account bound TP purchases. I think I kinda agree. I get tired of TP flippers buying up things just to resell them at higher prices. I’m talking the buying up large quantities of item to make them rarer and thus driving up the price by slowly releasing their stock back into the tp.

That doesnt actually work that good because most supplies are held outside the tp in peoples mat storage and banks, not on the tp.

Even if you buy out all tp supply, it doesnt really add real demand for the item.
And by real demand i mean people buying it to destroy it (either through crafting, forging, account binding, etc). Now that player bought up all that stock from the tp and has to somehow sell it to people, while competing against all the stock that is stored outside the tp and undercutting him because other players want to take advantage of the inflated prices.

Flippers dont really inflate prices because they usually dont consume stuff.

I guess its those players to blame that pay the high prices.

Wanze.8410:

Trinnitty.8256:

I have often thought about account bound TP purchases. I think I kinda agree. I get tired of TP flippers buying up things just to resell them at higher prices. I’m talking the buying up large quantities of item to make them rarer and thus driving up the price by slowly releasing their stock back into the tp.

That doesnt actually work that good because most supplies are held outside the tp in peoples mat storage and banks, not on the tp.

Even if you buy out all tp supply, it doesnt really add real demand for the item.
And by real demand i mean people buying it to destroy it (either through crafting, forging, account binding, etc). Now that player bought up all that stock from the tp and has to somehow sell it to people, while competing against all the stock that is stored outside the tp and undercutting him because other players want to take advantage of the inflated prices.

Flippers dont really inflate prices because they usually dont consume stuff.

I guess its those players to blame that pay the high prices.

You have to flip certain items. RARER items that aren’t in abundant supply. That way your not competing with peoples banks and their horded supply that can undercut you.

Trinnitty.8256:

Wanze.8410:

Trinnitty.8256:

I have often thought about account bound TP purchases. I think I kinda agree. I get tired of TP flippers buying up things just to resell them at higher prices. I’m talking the buying up large quantities of item to make them rarer and thus driving up the price by slowly releasing their stock back into the tp.

That doesnt actually work that good because most supplies are held outside the tp in peoples mat storage and banks, not on the tp.

Even if you buy out all tp supply, it doesnt really add real demand for the item.
And by real demand i mean people buying it to destroy it (either through crafting, forging, account binding, etc). Now that player bought up all that stock from the tp and has to somehow sell it to people, while competing against all the stock that is stored outside the tp and undercutting him because other players want to take advantage of the inflated prices.

Flippers dont really inflate prices because they usually dont consume stuff.

I guess its those players to blame that pay the high prices.

You have to flip certain items. RARER items that aren’t in abundant supply. That way your not competing with peoples banks and their horded supply that can undercut you.

Which items in particular?

Wanze.8410:

If one group of players can be held responsible for in game inflation, its dungeon runners because they handle the biggest gold faucet in the game.

Flippers actually take gold out of the economy and bring the price spread of an item closer together.

If you think flippers are the source of all evil, there are two simple things you can do to stop them:

Only buy your stuff through buy orders and never sell your stuff to the highest bidder.

Problem solved.

Not entirely true, fractals get more gold, SW get more gold, and even Orr can get more gold per hour then dungeons. Flipping is doing nothing but increasing gold price for some items, and those people don’t even do things, those people are not even players, out there are tons of people that already use tons of applications that already self track best deal items to flip them.

This is ruining game experience and should be stopped, gold flow can be managed through anet, TP abuse cannot be, there for something has to be done!

Firelysm.4967:

Wanze.8410:

If one group of players can be held responsible for in game inflation, its dungeon runners because they handle the biggest gold faucet in the game.

Flippers actually take gold out of the economy and bring the price spread of an item closer together.

If you think flippers are the source of all evil, there are two simple things you can do to stop them:

Only buy your stuff through buy orders and never sell your stuff to the highest bidder.

Problem solved.

Not entirely true, fractals get more gold, SW get more gold, and even Orr can get more gold per hour then dungeons. Flipping is doing nothing but increasing gold price for some items, and those people don’t even do things, those people are not even players, out there are tons of people that already use tons of applications that already self track best deal items to flip them.

This is ruining game experience and should be stopped, gold flow can be managed through anet, TP abuse cannot be, there for something has to be done!

I believe Wanze meant dungeons generate new gold and cause inflation.

SW, Orr … only give you materials which you trade with other people and dont generate new gold.

Celtic Lady.3729:

I’m surprised so many people even sell to buy orders. I get more money from simply listing and I never have to wait long for my money, so yeah, not sure why people use this.

That’s not even an issue, for example people know when some things will be needed and they will buy even on your price, every single item, there are guilds that buy one product and set astronomic price and they split the profit! Which is unfair to people that actually play the game.

I know people who have over 50k gold by just doing that, and it’s pathetic.

“If one group of players can be held responsible for in game inflation, its dungeon runners because they handle the biggest gold faucet in the game.”

But you need to keep running dungeons to make up for the lost gold through trading post taxes, salvage kits, waypoints, and gathering tools. Inflation also means rewards are smaller relative to the run’s completion, so you need to run it even more effectively earning less per run.

NTDK.4897:

Firelysm.4967:

Wanze.8410:

If one group of players can be held responsible for in game inflation, its dungeon runners because they handle the biggest gold faucet in the game.

Flippers actually take gold out of the economy and bring the price spread of an item closer together.

If you think flippers are the source of all evil, there are two simple things you can do to stop them:

Only buy your stuff through buy orders and never sell your stuff to the highest bidder.

Problem solved.

Not entirely true, fractals get more gold, SW get more gold, and even Orr can get more gold per hour then dungeons. Flipping is doing nothing but increasing gold price for some items, and those people don’t even do things, those people are not even players, out there are tons of people that already use tons of applications that already self track best deal items to flip them.

This is ruining game experience and should be stopped, gold flow can be managed through anet, TP abuse cannot be, there for something has to be done!

I believe Wanze meant dungeons generate new gold and cause inflation.

SW, Orr … only give you materials which you trade with other people and dont generate new gold.

• That’s why we have GEM money sink, it’s huge.
• Dungeon gold income is always the same, on the other hand TP prices rise just because there is more and more gold flippers each day
• If we stop flipping, prices will fall then i’m fine with dungeon nerfs
• i’m not fine with letting people continue flipping and making easy money cca 200gold per 60 min of game play is pathetic.

There are people that hardly work and also enjoy doing Anets dungeon and get rewarded for their play. And there are those that flip TP and don’t even try to play the game, they abuse applications that deliver them information and just money grab to oblivion.

Firelysm.4967:

Wanze.8410:

If one group of players can be held responsible for in game inflation, its dungeon runners because they handle the biggest gold faucet in the game.

Flippers actually take gold out of the economy and bring the price spread of an item closer together.

If you think flippers are the source of all evil, there are two simple things you can do to stop them:

Only buy your stuff through buy orders and never sell your stuff to the highest bidder.

Problem solved.

Not entirely true, fractals get more gold, SW get more gold, and even Orr can get more gold per hour then dungeons. Flipping is doing nothing but increasing gold price for some items, and those people don’t even do things, those people are not even players, out there are tons of people that already use tons of applications that already self track best deal items to flip them.

This is ruining game experience and should be stopped, gold flow can be managed through anet, TP abuse cannot be, there for something has to be done!

No, SW and Orr usually reward you with alot of items and mats but not coin, like dungeons do.

You might end up earning more gold per hour in sw instead of dungeon running but thats because you sold most of your loot on the tp, which means that the gold you get for it, has already been in the economy. It is transfered to you from another player and isnt created out of thin air.

Here is an example:
The dungeon runner earns 1g for clearing a path and wants to buy item A with it, which costs 1g on the tp, 70s buy order.

The farmer farms item A and sells it directly to the buy order of 70s from the trader, who relists it at 1g, which gets bought by the dungeon runner.

So the item gets sold twice, once for 1g (15s fees and taxes) and once for 70s (10.5s fees and taxes).

The farmer ends up with 59.5s, the trader with 15s, 25.5s are destroyed and the dungeoneer ends up with the items.

So while the dungeon runner only created 1g, which adds to gold inflation, the farmer and the trader didnt really create any gold in the process of buying and selling and farming, in fact, they actually destroyed gold via fees and taxes, which counters gold inflation.

If TP flippers don’t play any other parts of the game, why would they need the gold?

Wanze.8410:

Firelysm.4967:

Wanze.8410:

If one group of players can be held responsible for in game inflation, its dungeon runners because they handle the biggest gold faucet in the game.

Flippers actually take gold out of the economy and bring the price spread of an item closer together.

If you think flippers are the source of all evil, there are two simple things you can do to stop them:

Only buy your stuff through buy orders and never sell your stuff to the highest bidder.

Problem solved.

Not entirely true, fractals get more gold, SW get more gold, and even Orr can get more gold per hour then dungeons. Flipping is doing nothing but increasing gold price for some items, and those people don’t even do things, those people are not even players, out there are tons of people that already use tons of applications that already self track best deal items to flip them.

This is ruining game experience and should be stopped, gold flow can be managed through anet, TP abuse cannot be, there for something has to be done!

No, SW and Orr usually reward you with alot of items and mats but not coin, like dungeons do.

You might end up earning more gold per hour in sw instead of dungeon running but thats because you sold most of your loot on the tp, which means that the gold you get for it, has already been in the economy. It is transfered to you from another player and isnt created out of thin air.

Here is an example:
The dungeon runner earns 1g for clearing a path and wants to buy item A with it, which costs 1g on the tp, 70s buy order.

The farmer farms item A and sells it directly to the buy order of 70s from the trader, who relists it at 1g, which gets bought by the dungeon runner.

So the item gets sold twice, once for 1g (15s fees and taxes) and once for 70s (10.5s fees and taxes).

The farmer ends up with 59.5s, the trader with 15s, 25.5s are destroyed and the dungeoneer ends up with the items.

So while the dungeon runner only created 1g, which adds to gold inflation, the farmer and the trader didnt really create any gold in the process of buying and selling and farming, in fact, they actually destroyed gold via fees and taxes, which counters gold inflation.

but increases item inflation, and since designers design and adjust with item inflation in mind, end result is no one gets ahead but the trader.

Im not saying they should eliminate traders, but the reality is all farms have an effect.

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

Firelysm.4967:

Wanze.8410:

If one group of players can be held responsible for in game inflation, its dungeon runners because they handle the biggest gold faucet in the game.

Flippers actually take gold out of the economy and bring the price spread of an item closer together.

If you think flippers are the source of all evil, there are two simple things you can do to stop them:

Only buy your stuff through buy orders and never sell your stuff to the highest bidder.

Problem solved.

Not entirely true, fractals get more gold, SW get more gold, and even Orr can get more gold per hour then dungeons. Flipping is doing nothing but increasing gold price for some items, and those people don’t even do things, those people are not even players, out there are tons of people that already use tons of applications that already self track best deal items to flip them.

This is ruining game experience and should be stopped, gold flow can be managed through anet, TP abuse cannot be, there for something has to be done!

No, SW and Orr usually reward you with alot of items and mats but not coin, like dungeons do.

You might end up earning more gold per hour in sw instead of dungeon running but thats because you sold most of your loot on the tp, which means that the gold you get for it, has already been in the economy. It is transfered to you from another player and isnt created out of thin air.

Here is an example:
The dungeon runner earns 1g for clearing a path and wants to buy item A with it, which costs 1g on the tp, 70s buy order.

The farmer farms item A and sells it directly to the buy order of 70s from the trader, who relists it at 1g, which gets bought by the dungeon runner.

So the item gets sold twice, once for 1g (15s fees and taxes) and once for 70s (10.5s fees and taxes).

The farmer ends up with 59.5s, the trader with 15s, 25.5s are destroyed and the dungeoneer ends up with the items.

So while the dungeon runner only created 1g, which adds to gold inflation, the farmer and the trader didnt really create any gold in the process of buying and selling and farming, in fact, they actually destroyed gold via fees and taxes, which counters gold inflation.

but increases item inflation, and since designers design and adjust with item inflation in mind, end result is no one gets ahead but the trader.

Im not saying they should eliminate traders, but the reality is all farms have an effect.

Well, the trader wouldnt be there if the farmer would list his item instead of selling directly or if the dungeon runner would put in a buy order instead of buying directly.

Item inflation is just as much a worry (if it goes out of hand, it goes to vendor value) as gold inflation, I agree there.

But the trader contributes to neither of them.

Celtic Lady.3729:

If TP flippers don’t play any other parts of the game, why would they need the gold?

Obviously, our sole purpose is to destroy the fun for other players, while John Smith takes care of the devs.

John Smith.4610:

Wanze.8410:

John, did it ever happen that a new feature or game mechanic that was proposed internally by the dev team was vetoed by you because it would have too big of an impact on the economy?

50 Times a week, I am the destroyer of the designers intention to make people happy.

Celtic Lady.3729:

If TP flippers don’t play any other parts of the game, why would they need the gold?

Some people like to amass wealth for its own sake. Just look at the real world.

The TP runs on impatience. Players sell to high ask because they are impatient to get coin. They buy from low sell because they are impatient to get their item. They over and under cut because even though they chose to put in a buy/sell order they don’t want to wait too long.

These two forms of impatience is what fuels traders and keeps the prices more or less stable, as long as there is a lot of units being “created” and “destroyed”. If there is very little volume for a particular item, sure it can be manipulated to ratchet up the price but for the most part, impatience works. Impatient buyers and sellers provide the supply and customers the traders rely on and multiple traders as well as patient players keep the price in check through under/over cutting until the trading profit is squeezed out of that market.

Without flippers most stuff will get worthless like leather as there will be lot more seller than buyers for almost everything.

Notice how they released information on new legendaries ALONGSIDE information on all dem nerfs.

Nothing like positive news to offset the real gamechangers

Wow. some people.

Flipping is fine – and there’s really no discussion to be had there.

They have to nerf dungeon rewards so people don’t catch on that the rewards from fractals and the new content is subpar. What a shame, if you want to put the nail in the coffin of dungeons just remove them already anet.

I love it when TP flipper apologists come out. There are so many other things combating inflation, and other things Anet themselves can implement. Both the gold to gem and gem to gold ratio have taxes and are a huge counter to inflation. Also flippers only have a benefit when they compete with eachother to ‘stabilise’ prices of things, which would happen without dedicated spreadsheet warriors in the first place. They are a solution to an artificial problem they create.

At the end of the day they’re an unnecessary barrier between players and theeconomy (this is a video game after all not an economy simulator). Players hoarding huge amounts of gold with the only purpose to make more is the worst type of deflation possible. They’re a crappy symptom of a bad economy, a result of most content being hugely unrewarding whilst a relative and lucky few actively participate in the economy.

ArenaNet’s relationship with “farmers” has always been cantankerous at best. The only question tends to be, “How long will I be able to farm this before ArenaNet drops the nerf hammer on it?”

It seems this is dungeon running’s time.

NTDK.4897:

Firelysm.4967:

Wanze.8410:

If one group of players can be held responsible for in game inflation, its dungeon runners because they handle the biggest gold faucet in the game.

Flippers actually take gold out of the economy and bring the price spread of an item closer together.

If you think flippers are the source of all evil, there are two simple things you can do to stop them:

Only buy your stuff through buy orders and never sell your stuff to the highest bidder.

Problem solved.

Not entirely true, fractals get more gold, SW get more gold, and even Orr can get more gold per hour then dungeons. Flipping is doing nothing but increasing gold price for some items, and those people don’t even do things, those people are not even players, out there are tons of people that already use tons of applications that already self track best deal items to flip them.

This is ruining game experience and should be stopped, gold flow can be managed through anet, TP abuse cannot be, there for something has to be done!

I believe Wanze meant dungeons generate new gold and cause inflation.

SW, Orr … only give you materials which you trade with other people and dont generate new gold.

Other people or NPCs, a ton of what you get goes to NPCs.
Also, you get silver from most bags, from events, etc.

Also don’t forget Arena Net actively promotes price inflation, like they did with cloth.
Regretting the inflation now, and reverting it will only cause one thing: players who already have a lot of gold, will keep having a lot of gold, players who don’t won’t.

So, again like in the real world, economists are only making the rich richer, and the poor poorer. Yay for realism!!

Selling to NPCs is a gold faucet while selling to other players is a gold sink. They are looking at where the new gold is coming from and Dungeons are still significant even after all the previous nerfs.

It’s like the key farm. If kept within limits it wasn’t a problem but simply too many people were starting to take advantage of it and in that case it eroded key sales in the gem store.

Too much new gold into the game leads to real inflation and that needs to be controlled before copper ore is a gold each.

This games economy was too poorly designed at launch (and it still is really) to work without TP flippers. Its lame that people who spend their time actually playing the game make way less gold per hour than people who sit on the TP all day, but nothing you can do about it.

Well, Anet created the dungeon farming when they introduced the set amounts of gold per dungeon path, quickly said players could do only that path once per day. Am certain the gold (liquid asset) was in response to people complaining about getting only crap loot, in addition to the tokens (which at that time could purchase exotic bis gear, though not salvageable). Reminds me of the bonus (shaky) chest with a guaranteed rare introduced – people farmed the same event (for example the Maw which spawned quickly) over and over to get the ectos from salvaging. Shortly, thereafter, only one bonus chest per event per account a day. Oy!

Sizer.3987:

This games economy was too poorly designed at launch (and it still is really) to work without TP flippers. Its lame that people who spend their time actually playing the game make way less gold per hour than people who sit on the TP all day, but nothing you can do about it.

Yes you can and it’s real simple. Place a sell order instead of selling to the high bidder. Boom, flipper problem solved if people would just do that but when ANet tried to get players to do that by default when they overhauled the TP, the cries of players not wanting to forced them to change it back.

Aretak.3826:

I love it when TP flipper apologists come out. There are so many other things combating inflation, and other things Anet themselves can implement. Both the gold to gem and gem to gold ratio have taxes and are a huge counter to inflation. Also flippers only have a benefit when they compete with eachother to ‘stabilise’ prices of things, which would happen without dedicated spreadsheet warriors in the first place. They are a solution to an artificial problem they create.

At the end of the day they’re an unnecessary barrier between players and theeconomy (this is a video game after all not an economy simulator). Players hoarding huge amounts of gold with the only purpose to make more is the worst type of deflation possible. They’re a crappy symptom of a bad economy, a result of most content being hugely unrewarding whilst a relative and lucky few actively participate in the economy.

And I love it when someone thinks an apology is even needed.

Firelysm.4967:

I’m not even dungeon runner, but i feel sorry for those that love doing dungeons, and still getting rewarded for it, but now they will be left out. What is happening right now is, that dungeons will get a decent nerf so that HoT content(NEW)¸will be more rewarded then Core (OLD) content.

But i wonder, why are Trading Post flippers still allowed to flip without punishment? Those people control the economy, and those people don’t even play the game for real. I’m not saying how people should play the game, but this type of playing is killing the game economy and gaming experience is suffering because ArenaNet is allowing this!

MY SOLUTION:
Every item should become account bound once you purchase them, lets kill trade post flipping and fix the economy and with that GAMING EXPERIENCE!!!

Post your opinion how to stop this game breaking feature!

I’m not sure you understand how the TP works. TP players are actually good for the economy, as they create equilibrium. If your suggestion were implemented, it’s guaranteed to destroy the economy, making all things broken.

Economic experts all agree – The Black Lion Trading Post is the best thing to happen since sliced bread.

Wanze.8410:

Celtic Lady.3729:

If TP flippers don’t play any other parts of the game, why would they need the gold?

Obviously, our sole purpose is to destroy the fun for other players, while John Smith takes care of the devs.

John Smith.4610:

Wanze.8410:

John, did it ever happen that a new feature or game mechanic that was proposed internally by the dev team was vetoed by you because it would have too big of an impact on the economy?

50 Times a week, I am the destroyer of the designers intention to make people happy.

Am I the only one who reads these forums almost exclusively for posts written by Wanze?

Why take your hate to TP flippers? Should everything in life be purchased and account/bound? Does that mean all real life stuff, rather be cars, house, stocks, etc. be account bound too? Why allow people to resell anything then? Silly arguments requires silly responses…

Well, I made my 12% profit from Thick Leather Sections. I don’t normally speculate but the shift was slow enough to get on early enough for me to toss in 10 gold and give it a try. Looks like I picked a good sell point, I just hesitated to get in earlier, could have gotten 20 or even 30% ROI.

Firelysm.4967:

NTDK.4897:

Firelysm.4967:

Wanze.8410:

If one group of players can be held responsible for in game inflation, its dungeon runners because they handle the biggest gold faucet in the game.

Flippers actually take gold out of the economy and bring the price spread of an item closer together.

If you think flippers are the source of all evil, there are two simple things you can do to stop them:

Only buy your stuff through buy orders and never sell your stuff to the highest bidder.

Problem solved.

Not entirely true, fractals get more gold, SW get more gold, and even Orr can get more gold per hour then dungeons. Flipping is doing nothing but increasing gold price for some items, and those people don’t even do things, those people are not even players, out there are tons of people that already use tons of applications that already self track best deal items to flip them.

This is ruining game experience and should be stopped, gold flow can be managed through anet, TP abuse cannot be, there for something has to be done!

I believe Wanze meant dungeons generate new gold and cause inflation.

SW, Orr … only give you materials which you trade with other people and dont generate new gold.

• That’s why we have GEM money sink, it’s huge.
• Dungeon gold income is always the same, on the other hand TP prices rise just because there is more and more gold flippers each day
• If we stop flipping, prices will fall then i’m fine with dungeon nerfs
• i’m not fine with letting people continue flipping and making easy money cca 200gold per 60 min of game play is pathetic.

There are people that hardly work and also enjoy doing Anets dungeon and get rewarded for their play. And there are those that flip TP and don’t even try to play the game, they abuse applications that deliver them information and just money grab to oblivion.

sorry? but these applications are free for all to use, arenanet has the API public and people openly develop things to help with the game… playing the trading post is one aspect of the game, this game is heavily based on the economy, just as much as pve, pvp, wvw, etc.
flipping can exist because there is supply and demand, if a flipper places a price way too high, it will not be bought, however, by looking at statistics of an item (gw2shinies is a great place for this,) you can determine whether an item is moving/more demand/less supply/etc, and calculate the best buy offers for items you can muster, you have to realize someone has to SELL for that price, which means it’s an agreement between both parties, my most recent flip was 5g for a recipe on keeper’s masque which sold 50g, during that time plenty of people try to overcut you and you always have to keep an eye on the tp just as much as other aspects of the game.

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

Firelysm.4967:

Wanze.8410:

If one group of players can be held responsible for in game inflation, its dungeon runners because they handle the biggest gold faucet in the game.

Flippers actually take gold out of the economy and bring the price spread of an item closer together.

If you think flippers are the source of all evil, there are two simple things you can do to stop them:

Only buy your stuff through buy orders and never sell your stuff to the highest bidder.

Problem solved.

Not entirely true, fractals get more gold, SW get more gold, and even Orr can get more gold per hour then dungeons. Flipping is doing nothing but increasing gold price for some items, and those people don’t even do things, those people are not even players, out there are tons of people that already use tons of applications that already self track best deal items to flip them.

This is ruining game experience and should be stopped, gold flow can be managed through anet, TP abuse cannot be, there for something has to be done!

No, SW and Orr usually reward you with alot of items and mats but not coin, like dungeons do.

You might end up earning more gold per hour in sw instead of dungeon running but thats because you sold most of your loot on the tp, which means that the gold you get for it, has already been in the economy. It is transfered to you from another player and isnt created out of thin air.

Here is an example:
The dungeon runner earns 1g for clearing a path and wants to buy item A with it, which costs 1g on the tp, 70s buy order.

The farmer farms item A and sells it directly to the buy order of 70s from the trader, who relists it at 1g, which gets bought by the dungeon runner.

So the item gets sold twice, once for 1g (15s fees and taxes) and once for 70s (10.5s fees and taxes).

The farmer ends up with 59.5s, the trader with 15s, 25.5s are destroyed and the dungeoneer ends up with the items.

So while the dungeon runner only created 1g, which adds to gold inflation, the farmer and the trader didnt really create any gold in the process of buying and selling and farming, in fact, they actually destroyed gold via fees and taxes, which counters gold inflation.

but increases item inflation, and since designers design and adjust with item inflation in mind, end result is no one gets ahead but the trader.

Im not saying they should eliminate traders, but the reality is all farms have an effect.

Exactly this, no matter what people say, the one that is reselling is always ahead, and gold inflation is not always just from TP, you can sell them to merchant, some stuff we sell there and on the end of that day, that’s a HUGE fat as number.

Harper.4173:

Wow. some people.

Flipping is fine – and there’s really no discussion to be had there.

Exactly, because you are one of them right?
People who think flipping is OK are clearly one of them, or you are simply not aware of the situation that we have for way to long! You have to think out of the box a little, to see a bigger picture what else do flippers drag behind them when they flip one item 50 trillion times.

Behellagh.1468:

Selling to NPCs is a gold faucet while selling to other players is a gold sink. They are looking at where the new gold is coming from and Dungeons are still significant even after all the previous nerfs.

It’s like the key farm. If kept within limits it wasn’t a problem but simply too many people were starting to take advantage of it and in that case it eroded key sales in the gem store.

Too much new gold into the game leads to real inflation and that needs to be controlled before copper ore is a gold each.

But why do people do key farm even if it’s extremely boring as hell?! Hmmm?
Because they are * over priced as hell, and there is simply to many JUNK to invest real life money into keys. Sorry to say but that’s the fact. If we at least had GW1 chest system where you got a decent stuff that your profit was near 0 most of the time.

GW2 black lion keys are mostly making you loss 9 gold per key. So much for key farming.

Simple answer is this… If you feel that flipping is violating your game mode, then don’t do it and avoid the trading post if you can. I sometimes feel the pain cause by the flipping, but I admire it and think of it as reality. Supply and demand will always dictate the prices. Those who chose to flip are taking a risk as well. Not every buy or sell makes money. Anet charges a 5% listing fee and 10% sales fee, so some people who failed math flips the item for a loss and didn’t notice it. And by saying every item should be account bound is being a bit ignorant. There are many times I buy items for others and send it to them. By making it account bound, it’ll kill this game and make it pointless.

OH GREAT JOHN SMITH, I SUMMON THEE TO QUELL THIS DISCUSSION! I bring offerings of thick leather sections and cinnamon sticks.

SleepingDragon.1596:

Simple answer is this… If you feel that flipping is violating your game mode, then don’t do it and avoid the trading post if you can. I sometimes feel the pain cause by the flipping, but I admire it and think of it as reality. Supply and demand will always dictate the prices. Those who chose to flip are taking a risk as well. Not every buy or sell makes money. Anet charges a 5% listing fee and 10% sales fee, so some people who failed math flips the item for a loss and didn’t notice it. And by saying every item should be account bound is being a bit ignorant. There are many times I buy items for others and send it to them. By making it account bound, it’ll kill this game and make it pointless.

I doubt very much that making it impossible for people to buy things on the TP and then send them to others would make the game “pointless”.

In fact, it would probably have little to no impact on most people.

The only person I have ever sent anything I bought to was a F2P player I felt a bit sorry for, as they had no dyes, or runes.

So, I relented from my usual position of “trust no one” and sent them a few inexpensive things.

This action probably wouldn’t even be approved of by Anet, as if too many people do what I did, it means that fewer F2P players will bother paying for the full game.

This, presumably, includes people who now have multiple free accounts they send things to, from the only account they paid for?

We need to enhance the trading post. Allow those people who don’t have enough gold to pay directly with their credit cards to buy the item. Skip the gems conversion.

Firelysm.4967:

Behellagh.1468:

Selling to NPCs is a gold faucet while selling to other players is a gold sink. They are looking at where the new gold is coming from and Dungeons are still significant even after all the previous nerfs.

It’s like the key farm. If kept within limits it wasn’t a problem but simply too many people were starting to take advantage of it and in that case it eroded key sales in the gem store.

Too much new gold into the game leads to real inflation and that needs to be controlled before copper ore is a gold each.

But why do people do key farm even if it’s extremely boring as hell?! Hmmm?
Because they are * over priced as hell, and there is simply to many JUNK to invest real life money into keys. Sorry to say but that’s the fact. If we at least had GW1 chest system where you got a decent stuff that your profit was near 0 most of the time.

GW2 black lion keys are mostly making you loss 9 gold per key. So much for key farming.

If you think that BLCs are all about tickets and only tickets then yes. But they aren’t meant to be only about tickets. Just as dungeons aren’t suppose to be only about racing through them once a day for the chest at the end.

You are too reward driven. Where’s the fun, the enjoyment? Nope, it’s all about the lucre.

Behellagh.1468:

You are too reward driven. Where’s the fun, the enjoyment? Nope, it’s all about the lucre.

In a MMO that’s like saying “You’re too into killing monsters.” or “You’re too into exploring.”

It’s one of the core elements. Explore…kill things…get rewards…with work together thrown in there.

Wanze, have you looked into the ‘torches and pitchforks market’ recently….

Essence Snow.3194:

Behellagh.1468:

You are too reward driven. Where’s the fun, the enjoyment? Nope, it’s all about the lucre.

In a MMO that’s like saying “You’re too into killing monsters.” or “You’re too into exploring.”

It’s one of the core elements. Explore…kill things…get rewards…with work together thrown in there.

I have to agree, getting rewards IS part of the fun for me, as an example if I wouldn’t have a chance of getting an ascended armor/weapon chest or fractal weapon skin at the end of a daily fractal tier, I wouldn’t even go and do the darned things, same applies to dungeons with that 1-2 gold being the reward of going through the dungeon path. Some people play for the pure fun of it all and some play with rewards in mind, you can’t say one way is right and the other is wrong.

And here I clicked on this thread thinking it was a speculation on the Dungeon changes and it’s link for ‘real’ Dungeoneer to sell to buy orders to quickly clear their inventory. I was wrong. :/

Clickbait is clickbait…