Guild Wars 2

Flippers don’t control the economy in the slightest. At most they make temporary inconveniences in certain low throughput markets, and find themselves unable to maintain control of any market once it becomes lucrative.

I think actual opinions of players regarding this is based on their virtual wealth demographic. Players with a ton of gold and are not greatly inconvenienced by inflation or price fixing will see little to no problem with the issue. Other players who don’t have a ton of gold will be highly inconvenienced by prices being set at prices too far above their ability to participate.

It happens in the real world as well. The wealthy, bankers, and speculators will always argue for deregulation. Normal people who can’t afford to live won’t be so laissez faire.

Right now the TP is run in the 1920’s laissez faire style. Which basically means it is not run at all. It is totally influenced by the rich players at the expense of poor players. However unlike the real world’s government, Anet doesnt have to be influenced by the rich. They need to be influenced by the actual demographics of their paying customers. What percentage of players actually have enough gold to play the game at a fun and participatory level?

Is it worth alienating a majority of players to cater to the 1%?

I don’t have a ton of wealth. I don’t speculate. I don’t have any wealth tied up in intentional inventory (I hoard drops) or spend all willy-nilly. I don’t have any T3 culture skins because they are too freaking expensive. I don’t have a Taco, even when it was cheap.

According to GW2Experience, and I know it only compares others who have accounts, my net worth for the number of hours played is in the lowest 15%. Yes gold I’m in the top 25% with 600 g because I don’t nuts and buy all the rare dyes or named armors and weapons to collect their unique skins. But that’s because I take 80% of the gold I earn though playing a week and buy gems. Every week. Like clockwork. I don’t do dungeons. I don’t farm Silverwastes, heck I haven’t gotten there yet. But what I do do with my drops is place sell and buy orders rather than instabuy/sell.

I do look at the online resources like Wanze has listed to get a better grasp on what to sell, what to promote and what niches I might be able to eek some coin out of by salvaging. Takes about 10 minutes to check and place the buy orders and then I go off to do my dailies and then level my new character and when I feel like it go back to my main and pick up my orders, process them and place the sell orders on the mats I don’t want.

If you want coin in game, at least try to maximize it and not get angry at players that do. Or should have I been angry and players who only dungeon speed run every path or ride the boss train or live in the Silverwastes rather than to normal DEs and explore zones?

Behellagh.1468:

I don’t have a ton of wealth. I don’t speculate. I don’t have any wealth tied up in intentional inventory (I hoard drops) or spend all willy-nilly. I don’t have any T3 culture skins because they are too freaking expensive. I don’t have a Taco, even when it was cheap.

According to GW2Experience, and I know it only compares others who have accounts, my net worth for the number of hours played is in the lowest 15%. Yes gold I’m in the top 25% with 600 g because I don’t nuts and buy all the rare dyes or named armors and weapons to collect their unique skins. But that’s because I take 80% of the gold I earn though playing a week and buy gems. Every week. Like clockwork. I don’t do dungeons. I don’t farm Silverwastes, heck I haven’t gotten there yet. But what I do do with my drops is place sell and buy orders rather than instabuy/sell.

I do look at the online resources like Wanze has listed to get a better grasp on what to sell, what to promote and what niches I might be able to eek some coin out of by salvaging. Takes about 10 minutes to check and place the buy orders and then I go off to do my dailies and then level my new character and when I feel like it go back to my main and pick up my orders, process them and place the sell orders on the mats I don’t want.

If you want coin in game, at least try to maximize it and not get angry at players that do. Or should have I been angry and players who only dungeon speed run every path or ride the boss train or live in the Silverwastes rather than to normal DEs and explore zones?

Yes, you should be angry at dungeon speedrunners, farmers, and exploiters of all types. They ruin the game for everyone.

But I’m not. They “played” the game. Took advantage of the systems in place to earn a lot of gold. But I understand that in the case of SW, the TP is draining off a lot of the “new” coin coming in there.

If somebody enjoys playing a certain way that maximizes their coin generation, fine. They’re not locking me out of any content or items, I am by choosing not to focus on the content with the quickest income generation.

in a single player game, you’d be totally right. There should be no caps on any exploit, gold maxing, or anything of the sort. Nobody is affected by you playing however you please. However, in a multiplayer game, certain behaviors can and do impact the experience of others.

Derenek.8931:

I think actual opinions of players regarding this is based on their virtual wealth demographic. Players with a ton of gold and are not greatly inconvenienced by inflation or price fixing will see little to no problem with the issue. Other players who don’t have a ton of gold will be highly inconvenienced by prices being set at prices too far above their ability to participate.

It happens in the real world as well. The wealthy, bankers, and speculators will always argue for deregulation. Normal people who can’t afford to live won’t be so laissez faire.

Right now the TP is run in the 1920’s laissez faire style. Which basically means it is not run at all. It is totally influenced by the rich players at the expense of poor players. However unlike the real world’s government, Anet doesnt have to be influenced by the rich. They need to be influenced by the actual demographics of their paying customers. What percentage of players actually have enough gold to play the game at a fun and participatory level?

Is it worth alienating a majority of players to cater to the 1%?

This idea is absurd. People can have positions regarding economics that are based around more than just “GIMME IT ALL I WANT MORE THINGS MY WAY FORGET EVERYONE ELSE!!!”. Don’t just lump everybody who disagrees with you into a “greedy fat cat” group. You’ll be a better person if you don’t.

The TP is closest to a perfect competition market: identical goods, many sellers, many buyers, no individual deciding price, variable sources of production for each good, with no one individual having higher capacity than another. This perfect competition market isn’t just good for “bankers” (and please, for the love of all things, don’t let this be slang for Jews this time). It is good for everyone.

I demand proof. I want to see the numbers that prove that a few individuals are hoarding the items and dictating price as they see fit. Because in all of my trading, I have seen no evidence. When I was trying to get a precursor, I watched the price jump up and drop down 100 gold at a time, with availability swinging wildly. Whenever I’m buying materials, there’s always countless for sale at different prices and my low buy orders are met. When I was selling a relatively rare good (triforge pendants), I would enter into fierce selling wars with other sellers who were willing to pay the 17 gold it costs to re-list the darn pendant.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Derenek.8931:

I think actual opinions of players regarding this is based on their virtual wealth demographic. Players with a ton of gold and are not greatly inconvenienced by inflation or price fixing will see little to no problem with the issue. Other players who don’t have a ton of gold will be highly inconvenienced by prices being set at prices too far above their ability to participate.

It happens in the real world as well. The wealthy, bankers, and speculators will always argue for deregulation. Normal people who can’t afford to live won’t be so laissez faire.

Right now the TP is run in the 1920’s laissez faire style. Which basically means it is not run at all. It is totally influenced by the rich players at the expense of poor players. However unlike the real world’s government, Anet doesnt have to be influenced by the rich. They need to be influenced by the actual demographics of their paying customers. What percentage of players actually have enough gold to play the game at a fun and participatory level?

Is it worth alienating a majority of players to cater to the 1%?

This idea is absurd. People can have positions regarding economics that are based around more than just “GIMME IT ALL I WANT MORE THINGS MY WAY FORGET EVERYONE ELSE!!!”. Don’t just lump everybody who disagrees with you into a “greedy fat cat” group. You’ll be a better person if you don’t.

The TP is closest to a perfect competition market: identical goods, many sellers, many buyers, no individual deciding price, variable sources of production for each good, with no one individual having higher capacity than another. This perfect competition market isn’t just good for “bankers” (and please, for the love of all things, don’t let this be slang for Jews this time). It is good for everyone.

I demand proof. I want to see the numbers that prove that a few individuals are hoarding the items and dictating price as they see fit. Because in all of my trading, I have seen no evidence. When I was trying to get a precursor, I watched the price jump up and drop down 100 gold at a time, with availability swinging wildly. Whenever I’m buying materials, there’s always countless for sale at different prices and my low buy orders are met. When I was selling a relatively rare good (triforge pendants), I would enter into fierce selling wars with other sellers who were willing to pay the 17 gold it costs to re-list the darn pendant.

So you have the thousand gold available to just buy a precursor huh? And you are speculating using a 100 gold swing?

Somehow I don’t see you as being representative of the average casual paying guild wars customer.

Remember Black Lion Chests?….lol

No he watched it jump up and down at 100 g. He didn’t say he was speculating on precursors.

And it’s called saving for a precursor. That’s one reason I have 600 g. If I didn’t buy gems every week I would have several times that by now and likely have a precursor. And if I sell off what’s in my collection I could get one now.

Nothing wrong with TP flipping, as a WvW player it’s the only way I can make gold to keep up with the PvE playerbase without grinding content I despise.

(it’s also a game in itself, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, I recently lost big on electro dyes but kitten happens)

lol, I just log in a couple times a week and kill monsters and complete missions for fun. Been doing this since launch. Never bought any gems with gold. Never had more than 20 gold at once in my inventory.

sephiroth, overfarming and tp speculation are two beasts that feed each other, which leads to inflation. There’s nothing inherently wrong with inflation…as long as you have lots of money that is.

Derenek.8931:

lol, I just log in a couple times a week and kill monsters and complete missions for fun. Been doing this since launch. Never bought any gems with gold. Never had more than 20 gold at once in my inventory.

sephiroth, overfarming and tp speculation are two beasts that feed each other, which leads to inflation. There’s nothing inherently wrong with inflation…as long as you have lots of money that is.

So you are complaining that players who’ve spent way more time playing the game have way more money than you which means they can afford buying items in short supply/high demand and therefore a high price?

Oh well. Guess you have to depend on a lucky drop then rather than do what it’ll take to get what you want.

not complaints, just observations about what is actually happening.

Derenek.8931:

lol, I just log in a couple times a week and kill monsters and complete missions for fun. Been doing this since launch. Never bought any gems with gold. Never had more than 20 gold at once in my inventory.

sephiroth, overfarming and tp speculation are two beasts that feed each other, which leads to inflation. There’s nothing inherently wrong with inflation…as long as you have lots of money that is.

I’m always broke with all the reinvesting on the TP lol, the only reason I’m currently flipping is for a grinning ghastly shield but I don’t have enough invested at the moment to sell out, I would have had enough if electro blue dyes didn’t crash but that’s the fun of the trading post.

Wish Anet would just put some skins on TP so I could just CC it! Or maybe the 4th year birthday present similar to 3rd year dye selection?

sephiroth.4217:

Derenek.8931:

lol, I just log in a couple times a week and kill monsters and complete missions for fun. Been doing this since launch. Never bought any gems with gold. Never had more than 20 gold at once in my inventory.

sephiroth, overfarming and tp speculation are two beasts that feed each other, which leads to inflation. There’s nothing inherently wrong with inflation…as long as you have lots of money that is.

I’m always broke with all the reinvesting on the TP lol, the only reason I’m currently flipping is for a grinning ghastly shield but I don’t have enough invested at the moment to sell out, I would have had enough if electro blue dyes didn’t crash but that’s the fun of the trading post.

Wish Anet would just put some skins on TP so I could just CC it! Or maybe the 4th year birthday present similar to 3rd year dye selection?

I am all for rewards and awesome stuff players can get for playing the game, or customer loyalty. Then it actually makes those players stand out.

So it’s a bragging rights issue. Look I have X and must be feared and/or admired.

That’ll work better if there were specific rewards for specific activities. But the game was designed to funnel everyone past the gold sink where gold is the great equalizer to an uncooperative RNG.

…am I the only one, then, who runs content purely because I enjoy the content I run, and not so much for whatever pixelated nonsense I can potentially get at the end of said content?

Because if I am, then perhaps I’ve been going about enjoying content the wrong way. -Sid

Behellagh.1468:

So it’s a bragging rights issue. Look I have X and must be feared and/or admired.

That’ll work better if there were specific rewards for specific activities. But the game was designed to funnel everyone past the gold sink where gold is the great equalizer to an uncooperative RNG.

No, it’s to avoid people being able to say “hey, I paid X, now I can beat anyone else.”

Wanze.8410:

Trinnitty.8256:

Wanze.8410:

Trinnitty.8256:

I have often thought about account bound TP purchases. I think I kinda agree. I get tired of TP flippers buying up things just to resell them at higher prices. I’m talking the buying up large quantities of item to make them rarer and thus driving up the price by slowly releasing their stock back into the tp.

That doesnt actually work that good because most supplies are held outside the tp in peoples mat storage and banks, not on the tp.

Even if you buy out all tp supply, it doesnt really add real demand for the item.
And by real demand i mean people buying it to destroy it (either through crafting, forging, account binding, etc). Now that player bought up all that stock from the tp and has to somehow sell it to people, while competing against all the stock that is stored outside the tp and undercutting him because other players want to take advantage of the inflated prices.

Flippers dont really inflate prices because they usually dont consume stuff.

I guess its those players to blame that pay the high prices.

You have to flip certain items. RARER items that aren’t in abundant supply. That way your not competing with peoples banks and their horded supply that can undercut you.

Which items in particular?

Flippers barely make any money for the effort they put in lol. It’s far easier to just grab watchwork picks and go on a rich node hunting spree.

I also like flippers since they keep the market spread low for me when I wanna buy and sell stuff

I rarely post here on the forums, but this topic managed to blow my mind to the point that I figured I would weigh in.

To start, I am a TP Flipper. I spend, usually, 20-30 minutes a day updating, ordering, collecting, and listing. I make a decent influx of money doing this; that influx can not be measured day by day, as some days are slow and some days are good, but week over week and month over month it is very safe to say that I do indeed profit from it, and not lightly.

That being said, I am not buying random items and re-selling them. There is very much a method to the madness, and there are very much lines you can start to see if you know when and where and how to look for them. TP Flipping is not a skill-less art if you are going to make money doing it. There are guides that serve very well as jumping off points, and there are tools that make a lot of the guesswork a bit easier, and ultimately it IS something that anyone can do, assuming they want to put the time and effort in. It is also something that has no lower bar – you can start with 5 gold, you can start with 50 gold, you can start with 5000 gold – you’ll likely make the same profit % Wise no matter what.

Now that that’s taken care of, let me get to what has been slapped up in this post, most of which is either ignorance, anger because the posters themselves don’t know what goes into flipping or how to do it, or both.

The idea that Flipping isn’t a basic part of the game and isn’t “Really playing”:
The BLTP is a global open-door marketplace with direct correlation between what people get as drops out in the world and which of those drops people want to buy. It, as you know, allows you to auto-buy or auto-sell to other peoples’ listed values. It is, for many points and purposes, the in-game stock market. I buy stock in Honed Soft Wood Inscriptions at X, and offer them to anyone that wants them for Y. This is basic economics, fueled by the drop tables of the game’s open world and the demand that players on a global scale have for particular items for a varying number of reasons – those reasons aren’t important, the fact that SOMEONE wants an item is. The POINT is this: it’s part of the game. It’s a very well programmed and cleverly designed part of the game and, if i’m honest, it may be one of the MOST cleverly designed parts of the game. I’ll get to that in a bit, but ultimately just because you don’t personally enjoy an aspect of the game and choose not to partake in it does not mean it isn’t playing. I’m not too big on WvWvW, so I don’t play it. I don’t think all those Golden Commanders out there aren’t playing the game, or that they’re playing it wrong, they’re just doing their thing.

The idea that Flippers are somehow unhealthy:
Everyone who posts a sell order has to pay 5% of the listed value up front, and then another 10% of the total once it sells. Assuming a best case scenario that a TP Flipper does not post their item more than once and it sells, they have paid 15% of that item’s value. For ease of example, say we sell something for 100G and someone buys it. I as a flipper do not get 100G. I get 85G. The other 15? GONE! gone to the winds! Sent to the Mists! Confiscated by Aetherpirates! Straight into Gnashblade’s Coffers! Nobody gets it, it’s just a flat 15% tax that simply ceases to exist and keeps the collective gold pool in check. Not assuming a best-case, or perhaps an over-eager Flipper trying to bail on a certain item? Say one that reposts their item two, three, four times in order to avoid being undercut? 5%, 5%, 5%, over and over again until it sells, and then 10%. Flippers do not control the game’s economy, quite the opposite. They are probably the largest and most substantial partakers in the game’s best and most ingenious gold sink (hence why the TP is likely one of the most cleverly made parts of the game). And remember: flipper are fiercely competitive. They constantly undercut each other, and if anything serve to keep prices relatively controlled in a way that is beneficial for everyone buying things from the TP.

“MY SOLUTION:
Every item should become account bound once you purchase them, lets kill trade post flipping and fix the economy and with that GAMING EXPERIENCE!!!”
Congratulations, Charged Lodestones are now 25 gold each, if not more. The runes of strength on my old armor that I’ve now salvaged in order to try a new build? Certainly not going into the marketplace again, to be bought by someone else. Let’s not even get into what you’ve just done to the value of Black Lion Skins; I hope you enjoy plopping money down for gems if you want one, because now that’s the only way to get them past the FIRST sell, which I promise is going to be for a substantial amount more than it is presently.

“If item was sold at least 1x, listing fee would be 66% if you try to resell it.
This solution is better because those that would try to resell items would lost a lot of gold, and TP flipping would not be viable any more, but those who want to buy and give to friends/guildies/randoms can still do that.”

Please see above. You have not actually fixed the economy, you have just let everyone know that things need to cost more. I really hope you enjoy fractals, or running around with a shovel, because things just got silly.

“Post your opinion how to stop this game breaking feature!”

http://www.tentonhammer.com/guides/guild-wars-2/guild-wars-2-how-make-money

You could, alternatively, stop being ignorant and/or kitten about the concept of flipping, and learn how to do it yourself. If you don’t enjoy it, that’s one thing; don’t do it. If you’re angry about it because you feel it is unfair, learn about it enough to realize it only works because of the mostly free-market system of economics that GW2 operates on in game. If, for some reason, you think that Flippers ‘ruin the economy’ and ‘control the market’, then please realize that Flipping and Manipulation are two very very VERY different things.

Flipping is buying low and selling high, as many or as few items as the flipper feel they can safely swap for a profit in a given timespan. This is healthy behavior that stimulates the economy and makes use of features in the game exactly how it is safe to assume they were always intended to be used. This is not going to alter the price of items except to drive the gap between Auto-Buy and Auto-Sell to be smaller. Which, again, is a good thing for everyone (Except flippers, ironically.)

Manipulation is done by (but is done) a very VERY small number of people, all of whom have much much more gold on their account than I do. Manipulation is what happened to Precursors; someone bought literally all of them and decided what they would be worth from there on out. Manipulation, as a rule, can only happen to rare items that are somewhat hard to get. You can’t do it with things like Iron Ore: The world generates too much of it on its own, and the price will regulate itself back down in a hurry. Precursors are already amazingly rare; nobody is going to come along with enough of them to crash the party or the price. It’s also what has happened with some Black Lion Chest Skins and Dyes; someone – and I do mean an individual – buys 100% of that item and then decides, on a whim, what that item now costs. THIS IS NOT FLIPPING.

tl;dr I don’t think you really know what flipping is, I am pretty sure you do not know how to do it or what it involves to be successful, and beyond that I am fairly certain you lack a certain baseline of knowledge for how the economy of the game works as a whole. Please educate yourself and try again, because you are hating on the wrong people.

Derenek.8931:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Derenek.8931:

I think actual opinions of players regarding this is based on their virtual wealth demographic. Players with a ton of gold and are not greatly inconvenienced by inflation or price fixing will see little to no problem with the issue. Other players who don’t have a ton of gold will be highly inconvenienced by prices being set at prices too far above their ability to participate.

It happens in the real world as well. The wealthy, bankers, and speculators will always argue for deregulation. Normal people who can’t afford to live won’t be so laissez faire.

Right now the TP is run in the 1920’s laissez faire style. Which basically means it is not run at all. It is totally influenced by the rich players at the expense of poor players. However unlike the real world’s government, Anet doesnt have to be influenced by the rich. They need to be influenced by the actual demographics of their paying customers. What percentage of players actually have enough gold to play the game at a fun and participatory level?

Is it worth alienating a majority of players to cater to the 1%?

This idea is absurd. People can have positions regarding economics that are based around more than just “GIMME IT ALL I WANT MORE THINGS MY WAY FORGET EVERYONE ELSE!!!”. Don’t just lump everybody who disagrees with you into a “greedy fat cat” group. You’ll be a better person if you don’t.

The TP is closest to a perfect competition market: identical goods, many sellers, many buyers, no individual deciding price, variable sources of production for each good, with no one individual having higher capacity than another. This perfect competition market isn’t just good for “bankers” (and please, for the love of all things, don’t let this be slang for Jews this time). It is good for everyone.

I demand proof. I want to see the numbers that prove that a few individuals are hoarding the items and dictating price as they see fit. Because in all of my trading, I have seen no evidence. When I was trying to get a precursor, I watched the price jump up and drop down 100 gold at a time, with availability swinging wildly. Whenever I’m buying materials, there’s always countless for sale at different prices and my low buy orders are met. When I was selling a relatively rare good (triforge pendants), I would enter into fierce selling wars with other sellers who were willing to pay the 17 gold it costs to re-list the darn pendant.

So you have the thousand gold available to just buy a precursor huh? And you are speculating using a 100 gold swing?

Somehow I don’t see you as being representative of the average casual paying guild wars customer.

At time of this posting, I have 48 gold. I spent awhile gathering money for a precursor, and I would check the price every day for precursors. The one I watched the most was The Colossus, and I watched it go from 930 gold to 820 gold in the span of time I was gathering money for it. Currently, the cheapest listing for Colossus is 825 gold, with the most expensive being some poor guy who listed it at 1,140 gold. There is no solid evidence any of these sellers are merchants who are manipulating the price in any direction. Maybe, and this is a long shot, the two 950 gold sales are owned by the same guy (who would then tragically be undercut 15 times), and if they were posted by the same guy they would be indicative of a merchant of some kind. But again, there’s no evidence that this isn’t two people who just matched orders.

I demanded evidence, and you have provided none.

Sidenti.6035:

…am I the only one, then, who runs content purely because I enjoy the content I run, and not so much for whatever pixelated nonsense I can potentially get at the end of said content?

Because if I am, then perhaps I’ve been going about enjoying content the wrong way. -Sid

I actually trade as much as i do because its fun to me.
I dont really need the gold anymore but its a good measure of success for what i do.

If the top tier of weapons and armor along with their constituent materials could not be bought or sold on the TP, but only earned through individual effort and experience of completing missions and experiencing the story. I’d have no problem at all with any sort of market manipulation or farming in general.

Unfortunately now that is not the case. In order to be considered “competitive” or the GW term these days is “meta” requires ascended gear and not just any ascended gear, but zerkers as well. Right now there exists a situation where people who bought the game at full price, but play more casually simply can not play a character that they can feel is of a power level appropriate to feel “competitive”.

This is largely due in fact that the prices for the materials involved have inflated to the point that it is impossible for them to obtain without the additional investment of real world capital to buy gold. This is the fault of no particular individual or small group of individuals. In another post I was writing in, another poster spelled out specifically the costs to get ascended gear.

It was very significant. 750 gold pieces for a set of armor! Check the gem exchange, that is a significant cost in real world money to get.

Unfortunately in a stat based game, maximum stats are important. That’s just the facts. It’s unavoidable. A ten percent edge when you’re doing thousands of damage is a pretty big difference.

Right now there are only a few ways to be competitive.

Purchase trinkets with laurels: This I have no problem with. Laurels and the items obtained with them can not be traded on TP. Players who gained these items actually earned the item in game.

Farm an area or speedrun a dungeon, over and over and over, obtain the mats and make them yourself: Not ideal, but also I can’t legitimately complain, the player actually played he game and got to the power level through honest effort and smart and strategic gameplay.

Purchase the materials directly with gold at the TP: This is where the problems begin. There are two important groups involved here. Honest players who farmed the mats and/or used gold received from playing the game to play the market to exchange for the mats. The posters who said playing the market is perfectly legitimate are right. Since there was time invested in making the gold, the items bought and sold and the gold itself will have an intrinsic value to them. A piece of their life is attached to the virtual items and currency involved. Because of this, a more honest transaction process can be maintained. The second group in question is the group that pays real world money for gold, then exchanges that gold directly for materials.

Intrinsically the gold will have less value to those individuals than those players who spent the time earning the gold. For 25 dollars hundreds of gold can be purchased. I make 25 dollars in an hour. To earn hundreds of gold requires weeks to months of intensive gameplay. Immediately, they will be willing to pay higher prices for materials, simply because the gold is worth less time investment than gold earned in game.

This drives up prices because some people will pay more.

So what can regular people who don’t like the idea of gold selling/buying or pay to win do to compete? They must either spend more time in the world playing, but not only to a reasonable amount, but to a inflated amount due to the influx of purchased gold. Or break their gaming principles and buy gold.

By removing the very top tier of gear from the TP, it will allow regular gamers to earn the equipment in a reasonable manner in a reasonable time. Leave all cosmetic and second tier gear and mats on the market. This will keep the market active, but keep pay to win players from keeping other players from being able to feel competitive.

Or if top tier gear and mats remain on the TP, give other players a road to take that doesn’t require cash to gold conversion.

So what’s fair? Say one item a month. At an average of 5 hours a week, it would require 20 hours of gameplay to earn a single ascended item. To earn a full set of ascended armor would take 6 months or 120 hours of gameplay. I’m not talking about farming for mats either. I’m talking about completing events, missions, heart quests, and the main campaign itself. 120 hours of gameplay without mat farming is not a crazy idea. GW2 would be a very sad game indeed if it could not claim to be able to give players 120 hours of original gameplay to take a character from beginning to end, 1-80. So a character that went from 1-80 by actually living in the world and not killing the same mob over and over and over should be able to have a full set of gear that is of sufficient quality to compete on a level playing field as other level 80 characters.

This is in line with the claims made by Anet at launch. And with the flat power curve that guild wars games have always touted.

Now, of course the opponents to this idea will say that it makes it worthless for hardcore gamers to play the game. GW2 is supposed to be more of a game of skill than of stats. Leave in place options to farm for cosmetic enhancements or other options to make that character stand out more.

This is not the same as “giving players items for free” going from level 1 to lvl 80 takes a long time for most players. There are some who can do it in a week, but those with jobs and family are not in that group.

Derenek.8931:

This is largely due in fact that the prices for the materials involved have inflated to the point that it is impossible for them to obtain without the additional investment of real world capital to buy gold. This is the fault of no particular individual or small group of individuals. In another post I was writing in, another poster spelled out specifically the costs to get ascended gear.

I don’t know what you’re on but it can’t be legal.

The only material that is anywhere close to unreasonable in price for any ascended gear is silk.

Everything else is very reasonable and easily obtained if you don’t want to deal with the TP.

The only things that can be treated as “beyond the scope of the normal player” are limited run items such as the Halloween 2012 skins, molten skins, or the SAB weapons.

Those aren’t even pricey as kitten because of trading. They got that way because Anet let them dwindle down to a very small amount and never brought them back (or did but only as a small marketing stunt that had negligible effect)

It’s a very simple path.
1. Anet cuts off supply of items (spooky gear was already rare to begin with giving it a head start)
2. Supply starts to dwindle as items are bound.
3. Prices begin to climb due to diminishing supply and the appeal of “look at my bling”
4. Prices climb further as flippers begin to feel comfortable with hording for long durations and relisting for triple digit profits with confidence that Anet won’t suddenly pull the rug out from under them.

TLDR, Stuff’s too expensive? Blame Anet, not the people playing the game.

I do not like dungeons at all but feel for those that do.

My simple solution is..
Don’t even touch the dungeons, leave them as is and… Just make HOT so incredibly cool that you don’t want to do the dungeons.