Guild Wars 2

So Arena Net has opened the water valve. We’re going to get Arah Story as part of the personal story. This made me to think.

Wouldn’t it make sense that all story paths of all dungeons were a mandatory part of the personal story? This would mean that they should be balanced for 1-5 players, of course.

The dungeons even fit in their “Every 10 levels” story organization.

What do you think about this?

Arah Story was already part of the personal story.

They are now just making it not a dungeon that requires you to group up to do it. And everyone will have Arah Explorable dungeons unlocked for free by default.

And no, the other Story dungeons do not need to be changed. They serve as an introduction to the harder explorable dungeons.

I agree, they should make the story mode dungeons scalable for 1-5 players, it is near improbable to find people to run a lot of those story mode dungeons. They can leave the explorable mode as is.

eisberg.2379:

I agree, they should make the story mode dungeons scalable for 1-5 players, it is near improbable to find people to run a lot of those story mode dungeons. They can leave the explorable mode as is.

Yeah, I’m talking only about story mode. But more important that the fact that they should be scalable for 1-5 players is that they should be a mandatory part of the personal story as is Arah right now.

It takes some time, but story mode always fills up in 10-15 minutes. Just write “AC Story relaxed run, all welcome”, and you’re fine.
I don’t know if they should be part of the story. It would make sense, of course, but they shoudln’t be mandatory to get on with your story in my eyes.
Edit: wrote “explorable” instead of story in my first sentence

They do not need to be added to the personal story. Nor should they be.

Reasons:

1. Story mode dungeons serve as an introduction to dungeons. Highly useful if you plan to move onto explorable dungeons. Not everyone likes to just jump into the deep end. Story mode is the shallow side of the pool.

2. With the current changes to Arah Story it’s clear ANet no longer wants to force players to group together to do their personal story. This goes against the concept of dungeons as they are designed to be group content.

Story dungeons should scale. It would add a lot of content that the majority of players would otherwise ignore. It shouldn’t be added directly to the personal story, but left as is – simply linked to it.

All dungeons should have the ability to scale like fractals, allowing you to select your scale at the start. Selecting a higher scale than the number of people in your group would offer increased rewards.

Yes, I would like to see all the Story Dungeons changed to 1-5 and also made an actual part of the story. I am in favor of “forcing” people to experience the story of Destiny’s Edge, such that when they get to Arah it makes sense why everyone came back together.

As it stands right now the story consists of Destiny’s Edge meeting in Lion’s Arch and then splitting up. You do a bunch of stuff slowly working your way to Arah having not interacted with any of them again since that time. Then you make it to Arah and there they all are getting along, more or less, for no apparent reason.

By making the dungeons part of the story, since they are story mode, you get the whole picture as to why they came back together finally.

Now, because I’m kind of cruel, though, I’m also in favor of not unlocking the explorables until the story is done. I know that’s a fat chance, but I would support it.

They are doing the EXACT opposite of making DUNGEONS part of the personal story…..

They are changing the ONE Dungeon instance that WAS part of the personal story just a story mission like all the others.

Just to be clear, I do not like the idea of being forced to do Dungeons (even the story missions) to complete a personal story step. I have no problem with some other type of incentive to get more players into Dungeons, but not tie it to the PS.

Seera.5916:

They do not need to be added to the personal story. Nor should they be.

Reasons:

1. Story mode dungeons serve as an introduction to dungeons. Highly useful if you plan to move onto explorable dungeons. Not everyone likes to just jump into the deep end. Story mode is the shallow side of the pool.

2. With the current changes to Arah Story it’s clear ANet no longer wants to force players to group together to do their personal story. This goes against the concept of dungeons as they are designed to be group content.

Both of your points are wrong.

1) Story Mode doesn’t introduce you to anything about the dungeon, not even a viable layout of the dungeon as doors and paths are often blocked and changed between all of them. Also, by having it part of the story you would still have the option to learn whatever it is you think you can learn.

2) The expectation, as described by the OP, and the only reasonable way to take the suggestion anyway, is to give all Story Mode dungeons the same treatment as Arah, making them soloable.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Yes, I would like to see all the Story Dungeons changed to 1-5 and also made an actual part of the story. I am in favor of “forcing” people to experience the story of Destiny’s Edge, such that when they get to Arah it makes sense why everyone came back together.

As it stands right now the story consists of Destiny’s Edge meeting in Lion’s Arch and then splitting up. You do a bunch of stuff slowly working your way to Arah having not interacted with any of them again since that time. Then you make it to Arah and there they all are getting along, more or less, for no apparent reason.

By making the dungeons part of the story, since they are story mode, you get the whole picture as to why they came back together finally.

Now, because I’m kind of cruel, though, I’m also in favor of not unlocking the explorables until the story is done. I know that’s a fat chance, but I would support it.

That sounds like the idea I had

It’s nice to see there is people out there that thinks like me.

Currently, the personal story and the dungeons are disjointed. Making dungeons part of the personal story would wrap the whole experience and would let people that doesn’t do dungeons normally to know the place and be less afraid of it.

I think that just as living world instances, dungeons should scale so if you get to a story dungeon with 5 people, the dungeon should be as difficult as it is right now.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Seera.5916:

They do not need to be added to the personal story. Nor should they be.

Reasons:

1. Story mode dungeons serve as an introduction to dungeons. Highly useful if you plan to move onto explorable dungeons. Not everyone likes to just jump into the deep end. Story mode is the shallow side of the pool.

2. With the current changes to Arah Story it’s clear ANet no longer wants to force players to group together to do their personal story. This goes against the concept of dungeons as they are designed to be group content.

Both of your points are wrong.

1) Story Mode doesn’t introduce you to anything about the dungeon, not even a viable layout of the dungeon as doors and paths are often blocked and changed between all of them. Also, by having it part of the story you would still have the option to learn whatever it is you think you can learn.

2) The expectation, as described by the OP, and the only reasonable way to take the suggestion anyway, is to give all Story Mode dungeons the same treatment as Arah, making them soloable.

Thanks

Kal Spiro.9745:

Seera.5916:

They do not need to be added to the personal story. Nor should they be.

Reasons:

1. Story mode dungeons serve as an introduction to dungeons. Highly useful if you plan to move onto explorable dungeons. Not everyone likes to just jump into the deep end. Story mode is the shallow side of the pool.

2. With the current changes to Arah Story it’s clear ANet no longer wants to force players to group together to do their personal story. This goes against the concept of dungeons as they are designed to be group content.

Both of your points are wrong.

1) Story Mode doesn’t introduce you to anything about the dungeon, not even a viable layout of the dungeon as doors and paths are often blocked and changed between all of them. Also, by having it part of the story you would still have the option to learn whatever it is you think you can learn.

2) The expectation, as described by the OP, and the only reasonable way to take the suggestion anyway, is to give all Story Mode dungeons the same treatment as Arah, making them soloable.

1. Story mode dungeons are easier dungeons than explorable. They teach mechanics used in dungeons. Puzzles need to be solved. They require team work to go through unless you have the skills. Though with the removal of Arah story, it does remove the learning that some dungeons may require other players to progress (Crucible of Eternity explorable does require multiple people due to the laser trap room). They are not an exact copy. But the shallow end is also not an exact copy of the deep end now is it? I don’t see diving boards in the shallow end and I don’t see stairs in the deep end.

2. Dungeons are small group content. You’re telling ANet to take current small group content and turn it into content designed to play solo. So few things in this game are currently designed for small groups. Just to make the story easier to follow. There are better ways to do this than to get rid of content designed for small groups.

The mailings for example could be used as a means to tell the gist of the Story mode without completely spoiling it.

Seera.5916:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Seera.5916:

They do not need to be added to the personal story. Nor should they be.

Reasons:

1. Story mode dungeons serve as an introduction to dungeons. Highly useful if you plan to move onto explorable dungeons. Not everyone likes to just jump into the deep end. Story mode is the shallow side of the pool.

2. With the current changes to Arah Story it’s clear ANet no longer wants to force players to group together to do their personal story. This goes against the concept of dungeons as they are designed to be group content.

Both of your points are wrong.

1) Story Mode doesn’t introduce you to anything about the dungeon, not even a viable layout of the dungeon as doors and paths are often blocked and changed between all of them. Also, by having it part of the story you would still have the option to learn whatever it is you think you can learn.

2) The expectation, as described by the OP, and the only reasonable way to take the suggestion anyway, is to give all Story Mode dungeons the same treatment as Arah, making them soloable.

1. Story mode dungeons are easier dungeons than explorable. They teach mechanics used in dungeons. Puzzles need to be solved. They require team work to go through unless you have the skills. Though with the removal of Arah story, it does remove the learning that some dungeons may require other players to progress (Crucible of Eternity explorable does require multiple people due to the laser trap room). They are not an exact copy. But the shallow end is also not an exact copy of the deep end now is it? I don’t see diving boards in the shallow end and I don’t see stairs in the deep end.

2. Dungeons are small group content. You’re telling ANet to take current small group content and turn it into content designed to play solo. So few things in this game are currently designed for small groups. Just to make the story easier to follow. There are better ways to do this than to get rid of content designed for small groups.

The mailings for example could be used as a means to tell the gist of the Story mode without completely spoiling it.

1) They are wholly different and don’t teach you anything about how the Explorables work. They just don’t. This is an absurd notion. The only similarity is that they both technically exist in the same place, but they don’t follow similar paths, contain similar objectives, nor similar obstacles. The story is for lore and little else, the explorables are for challenge and reward.

2) I don’t understand what this even means. Five is already a small group. You’re looking for content for 3 or 4? Story mode wasn’t created for that purpose, whether it can be used that way or not. It was made to tell a story relevant to the game. If you want small group content there are a wide variety of mini dungeons throughout the game that might interest you. The rewards are not significantly worse than Story Mode.

Seera.5916:

Kal Spiro.9745:

~snip~

~snip~

1. Story mode dungeons would still be easier than explorables. They can still teach some of the mechanics (which right now are mostly reduced to stack and kill). Maybe this could allow people to realize there were actual mechanics out there. Done solo they wouldn’t require teamwork, of course, but that’s why I’m saying they should be scalable, like living world instances. They would still be a good introduction to group content if you make rewards scale with the number of players that do the instance.

2. Dungeons, as the small group content they are, force you to be in a 5 man content. I’m asking for some flexibility with that. And only for the story paths. Soloable for very little reward, but doable by 5 men too. Have you done claw island with a full party? It’s a totally different experience. I actually think that it would be great to have explorable versions of Claw Island.

EDIT: Some people do dungeons solo right now anyway.

You two don’t get it. Dungeons currently can be done by parties of 1-5 excepting a few paths where you have to have multiple people.

Why are you guys asking for what little small group content there is to be turned into solo content (let’s face it, anything tied to the personal story will be done solo by 99% of players and therefore not usable as any means of dungeon intro)?

Why can’t NEW content or new means to get the story told in the Story mode dungeons be added instead?

And if Story mode dungeon was an exact copy of any of the explorable paths that would be boring. It’s an introduction to dungeons. It’s not meant to showcase every little detail of every single path. It’s meant to give you the basics of dungeons. That to make it easy, you need a group. And that the group needs to work as a team through whatever strategy they choose to use.

And if you feel they aren’t easy mode dungeons, then please go tell that to the dungeon people who tell others that story mode is the beginner level dungeons. Because I seem to recall that every time someone suggests ANet adds in an easy mode, someone reputable goes: but that’s the Story mode dungeons.

And if dungeons force you to have full parties, then what are all of those posts about soloing or duoing a dungeon about?

I’d actually love to see the entire personal story be scalable to account for parties doing it. As well as harder mode versions.

I’m not opposed of new content being added to make the story of Arah story mode make more sense. I just don’t want it to be at the expense of Dungeons which already suffers from being largely ignored by ANet. They haven’t had any new content since the Fractured patch.

You seem to have an issue understanding the word intent. Dungeons were not intended to be soloed. The fact that they can be, by very specific builds, does not change the intent.

Moreover, the point of Story Mode was to tell a story. It may have also been meant to introduce people to dungeons, but this late in the game that is no longer relevant.

So I will ask you this, since you seem really intend on clinging to Story Mode as some kind of talisman for groups smaller than 5. If explorables, which are supposed to be “advanced” dungeons, can be soloed, why do you need Story Mode. It doesn’t serve any special purpose. It is not regularly repeated. The primary purpose of doing Story Mode is to unlock Explorable. It isn’t to introduce you to dungeons. It isn’t to have a good time with your small group. It isn’t even to experience the story.

There are plenty of dungeons. The game doesn’t need a dungeon mode that is only there to be in the way of the other modes.

If you want an introduction to dungeons do low level fractals. That will do you so much better than Story Mode ever will.

I want the Story to actually be told and experienced. That means the story has to actually be part of the story. The only way to do that is to do what’s being suggested here.

I’m sorry that this will somehow ruin your gameplay. I’ve been on that side of the argument. You are a significant minority, though. Most people don’t play the way you apparently do, nor use Story Mode the way you apparently do. There is no point. If you want to get into dungeons, just use LFG and grab a friendly pug. Then you can learn how it works and also get rewarded for it.

Seera.5916:

~snip~

I’m not asking for content to be removed. And I’m saying that explorable paths should stay the same. This means that I’m just talking about less than 25% of dungeon content.

About that 25%. I’m not saying that they should remove it. And I’m not saying that they should dumb it down. I’d like to see it scale up nicely with a full party.

I’d like to make story paths a mandatory part of the story, that’s my main aim. But for that purpose them need to be able to scale down to be done by 1 player.

Why do I want the story paths to be part of the personal story? Because as they are, the story is totally disjointed and some things make no sense.

There are other things that could make sense in order to achieve the same goal. Like having a separate track of the story of the dungeons that you unlock by doing the dungeon stories in order, for instance.

Id like story dungeons to be changed to scale to the numbers of players. However I only support this if the dungeons themselves are repeatable, not just a one time thing. Even though most people rarely replay story its nice to have the option there, and taking content away from end game chars is always a bad thing, there’s little enough as it is.

zombyturtle.5980:

Id like story dungeons to be changed to scale to the numbers of players. However I only support this if the dungeons themselves are repeatable, not just a one time thing. Even though most people rarely replay story its nice to have the option there, and taking content away from end game chars is always a bad thing, there’s little enough as it is.

Yeah. That was a downer about Arah. I’d like to see them repeatable. I’d like all the personal story be repeatable as the living story is…

All story mode dungeons should be soloable, period. There’s no real reason for them not to be, and the rewards for doing them are a joke, so it’s not like the dungeon runners should care.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

All story mode dungeons should be soloable, period. There’s no real reason for them not to be, and the rewards for doing them are a joke, so it’s not like the dungeon runners should care.

And someone else agrees.

If you like this idea, please don’t let this post die for a while. put a +1 on the OP