Guild Wars 2

BRING BACK THE TRADE FORUM

Regular unidentified dyes don’t drop, aren’t directly purchasable in the gemstore, and are rare drops from black lion chests (the drop rate is less than you’d think) .

Essentially, anet dumped a billion free dyes on the market last year, and have since been trying to let residual demand clean up the glut.

Right now unidentified dyes have returned to the place thy were before the big dump. Their price goes down when anet releases new Black lion skins (because players buy the chests), or the price goes up by a few silver per week.

Since unidentified dyes are craft able, I don’t think there is a problem as long as dyes stay below 1.5-2 gold.

But, why is OP buying unidentified dyes anyways? Pick the dyes that you want and buy those. That is waaay cheaper.

I wouldn’t mind the unidentified dye drop were increased or at least put back into the gathering.

The free market shall decide*

*except for all the times it shall not.

Svarty.8019:

The free market shall decide*

*except for all the times it shall not.

Quite.

Lynne.8416:

I wouldn’t mind the unidentified dye drop were increased or at least put back into the gathering.

High supply will result in low prices for all dyes even those that don’t cost much now. It may increase unidentified dyes sales as they would be lower as well.

They can’t really do that as it would ruin the dye market.

So what I’ve gathered is Tigaseye is in favor of a flat drop rate (or price) for all dyes right? E.g the basic red dye should be as rare/common as Abyss Black.

Would you (Tigaseye) be ok with this concept being applied to all items? I have a stance on this, but I’d like to know how far you want to take the concept of fairness.

Azala Yar.7693:

Lynne.8416:

I wouldn’t mind the unidentified dye drop were increased or at least put back into the gathering.

High supply will result in low prices for all dyes even those that don’t cost much now. It may increase unidentified dyes sales as they would be lower as well.

They can’t really do that as it would ruin the dye market.

Just out of sheer curiosity, what effect would ruining the dye market actually have? A few players making gold off dyes cease doing so? Am I missing something?

Essence Snow.3194:

Azala Yar.7693:

Lynne.8416:

I wouldn’t mind the unidentified dye drop were increased or at least put back into the gathering.

High supply will result in low prices for all dyes even those that don’t cost much now. It may increase unidentified dyes sales as they would be lower as well.

They can’t really do that as it would ruin the dye market.

Just out of sheer curiosity, what effect would ruining the dye market actually have? A few players making gold off dyes cease doing so? Am I missing something?

If unidentified dyes became more common place the prices would drop, with the drop in prices more people would buy unidentified dyes in the hope of getting a dye they could use.

The result will be the dye market would be flooded with dyes nobody wants as the supply increases but the demand doesn’t change.

Azala Yar.7693:

Essence Snow.3194:

Azala Yar.7693:

Lynne.8416:

I wouldn’t mind the unidentified dye drop were increased or at least put back into the gathering.

High supply will result in low prices for all dyes even those that don’t cost much now. It may increase unidentified dyes sales as they would be lower as well.

They can’t really do that as it would ruin the dye market.

Just out of sheer curiosity, what effect would ruining the dye market actually have? A few players making gold off dyes cease doing so? Am I missing something?

If unidentified dyes became more common place the prices would drop, with the drop in prices more people would buy unidentified dyes in the hope of getting a dye they could use.

The result will be the dye market would be flooded with dyes nobody wants as the supply increases but the demand doesn’t change.

I disagree with changing the current system just because I’d rather have anet not make things more “fair” for vanity items based on the playerbase’s opinion. And I’d really rather not have them crash the market just so rare dyes become less rare. Also because it would likely set a precedent of anet controlling all the markets, which really isn’t something I’d like them to spend time on in the grand scheme of things.

Tigaseye.2047:

I’ve listened, I just don’t happen to agree in the case of the most extreme priced dye(s).

As far as I can tell, you have yet to point out a specific dye that has increased to an extreme amount.

• The new system unlocks dyes for an entire account, which means at least for 5 characters. The previous unlocks were lost if you deleted a toon; the new unlocks are permanent.
• The current TP prices are far less than 5x the costs prior to the announcement of the wardrobe (and roughly the same as they were between the announcement and the implementation).

So overall, it’s cheaper now to get unlocks for your characters.

Cloudz.6890:

So what I’ve gathered is Tigaseye is in favor of a flat drop rate (or price) for all dyes right? E.g the basic red dye should be as rare/common as Abyss Black.

Would you (Tigaseye) be ok with this concept being applied to all items? I have a stance on this, but I’d like to know how far you want to take the concept of fairness.

No, I already said I didn’t mind if some dyes cost a little more (or, quite a lot more, proportionately).

I believe I said a maximum of 20g?

I understand that gamblers like some kind of risk/reward type high, so that’s (partly) why they vary in “rarity”.

I just find the combined store price of three complete armour sets excessive, for one (let’s face it, pretty basic) colour, that’s all.

Do my thoughts on that extend to everything?

Well, as I have also said, I have a significantly greater acceptance of higher priced items that actually involved some work, on ANet’s behalf, to produce.

Having said that, I wouldn’t want to pay anything over about 80g for a weapon skin, personally.

So, if I ran the game, that is what I would try to go for as a maximum – in other words, I would reintroduce old skins, to make that happen.

But, I don’t find the more highly priced weapon skins quite as laughable as I do the very highly priced colour(s), no.

Undesirable, yes.

Laughable, no.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Tigaseye.2047:

I’ve listened, I just don’t happen to agree in the case of the most extreme priced dye(s).

As far as I can tell, you have yet to point out a specific dye that has increased to an extreme amount.

I pointed out one that currently costs 234g.

Surely you know which one that is?

Not sure it’s “increased” to that, but it costs that.

BTW, you have got to love how some people try to pull the “childish” card whenever anyone disagrees with their POV.

That reaction is just so very grown-up.

Sure it’s not projection, at all…

Essence Snow.3194:

Azala Yar.7693:

Lynne.8416:

I wouldn’t mind the unidentified dye drop were increased or at least put back into the gathering.

High supply will result in low prices for all dyes even those that don’t cost much now. It may increase unidentified dyes sales as they would be lower as well.

They can’t really do that as it would ruin the dye market.

Just out of sheer curiosity, what effect would ruining the dye market actually have? A few players making gold off dyes cease doing so? Am I missing something?

Yes, that those “few players” are, almost certainly, all camping this thread.

Transmutation, dyes and make-over kits are all part of the “customize your character so they are unique” end game meta. It’s not surprising that all these things can cost gems to acquire. And while there are gem store armors and unique dyes, the game does come with a heck of a lot you could get in game or at least via the TP (not talking gem shop resellers).

On top of this dyes in game are RNG based. You can’t cook up a specific dye. And in the day when dyes were character bound and UniDyes dropped from harvesting carrots like no tomorrow, the purer more vibrant colors were still expensive. RNG naturally leads to the TP as a secondary (or the primary) source for dyes.

Problem is that after nearly three years and an account wide unlock of dyes, what was once unique is now seen more often. And that’s where Gem Shop Themed dyes come in. Boom! Uniqueness is back in spades, if you can afford it.

Add to that the inevitable problem with global unlocks and RNG. That the closer you are to completion, the greater the chance in rolling a dye that’s useless to you. Multiply dye cabinet completeness across the player base you end up with a massive pile of cheap dyes flooding the TP while players drive up the price on the less common ones. Voila, an increasing price gap between common and rarer dyes, again not talking about Gem Shop Themed ones.

Tigaseye.2047:

BTW, you have got to love how some people try to pull the “childish” card whenever anyone disagrees with their POV.

That reaction is just so very grown-up.

Sure it’s not projection, at all…

Actually a big part of the problem you’re running into is the very common misconception they hold that Arenanet and all it’s employees from the monetizers down to the janitor are pure as driven snow and incapable of doing anything that would remotely be unethical.
You can’t win against them when they see Anet as benevolent gods who can do no wrong.

Have you checked out the Zephyrite Color Swatches in the gemstore? Most of the non-BL dyes can be obtained this way, I think only the pure blacks and whites are not there.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zephyrite_Color_Swatch:_Blue
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zephyrite_Color_Swatch:_Green
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zephyrite_Color_Swatch:_Red
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zephyrite_Color_Swatch:_Yellow

Please note that when you use one, you actually get to select the color it gives you, it’s not random.

Neural.1824:

Tigaseye.2047:

BTW, you have got to love how some people try to pull the “childish” card whenever anyone disagrees with their POV.

That reaction is just so very grown-up.

Sure it’s not projection, at all…

Actually a big part of the problem you’re running into is the very common misconception they hold that Arenanet and all it’s employees from the monetizers down to the janitor are pure as driven snow and incapable of doing anything that would remotely be unethical.
You can’t win against them when they see Anet as benevolent gods who can do no wrong.

Most people aren’t making the argument that Anet is always correct. Most of us are making the argument that getting rid of RNG would do more harm than good or that it’s good that rarity for vanity items is a good thing.

And be honest, him saying that nothing will change his mind is a rather childish stance to make. You should always be open to having your opinion changed.

Cloudz.6890:

You should always be open to having your opinion changed.

Pot, Kettle calling on line 2

You only need 100 now for the gift of color.

Without buying them in the trading post or opening black lion chests you can:
- Craft rare color dyes with cooking, then mystic forging them. 4 rare color dyes → 1 unidentified dye.
- Use Laurels. Just 500 laurels for the stack of 100, which is less than 10 login reward cycles, or 10 months.
- Randomly from Story bags of loot.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unidentified_Dye

Neural.1824:

Tigaseye.2047:

BTW, you have got to love how some people try to pull the “childish” card whenever anyone disagrees with their POV.

That reaction is just so very grown-up.

Sure it’s not projection, at all…

Actually a big part of the problem you’re running into is the very common misconception they hold that Arenanet and all it’s employees from the monetizers down to the janitor are pure as driven snow and incapable of doing anything that would remotely be unethical.
You can’t win against them when they see Anet as benevolent gods who can do no wrong.

True.

It’s like Stockholm Syndrome.

Palador.2170:

Have you checked out the Zephyrite Color Swatches in the gemstore? Most of the non-BL dyes can be obtained this way, I think only the pure blacks and whites are not there.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zephyrite_Color_Swatch:_Blue
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zephyrite_Color_Swatch:_Green
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zephyrite_Color_Swatch:_Red
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zephyrite_Color_Swatch:_Yellow

Please note that when you use one, you actually get to select the color it gives you, it’s not random.

Careful with that, though. I recall when those came out people did a price comparison and the Color Swatch effectively cost more than the TP price of the most expensive dye you could get from the Swatch. Moreover, it cost enough more that you could get all the dyes it offered, including the most expensive, for not much more than you paid for the Swatch.

Donari.5237:

Palador.2170:

Have you checked out the Zephyrite Color Swatches in the gemstore? Most of the non-BL dyes can be obtained this way, I think only the pure blacks and whites are not there.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zephyrite_Color_Swatch:_Blue
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zephyrite_Color_Swatch:_Green
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zephyrite_Color_Swatch:_Red
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zephyrite_Color_Swatch:_Yellow

Please note that when you use one, you actually get to select the color it gives you, it’s not random.

Careful with that, though. I recall when those came out people did a price comparison and the Color Swatch effectively cost more than the TP price of the most expensive dye you could get from the Swatch. Moreover, it cost enough more that you could get all the dyes it offered, including the most expensive, for not much more than you paid for the Swatch.

True. But these do set a sort of “hard cap” on the price of a lot of the dyes.

Sadly, they don’t have the really expensive dyes.

Donari.5237:

Palador.2170:

Have you checked out the Zephyrite Color Swatches in the gemstore? Most of the non-BL dyes can be obtained this way, I think only the pure blacks and whites are not there.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zephyrite_Color_Swatch:_Blue
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zephyrite_Color_Swatch:_Green
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zephyrite_Color_Swatch:_Red
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zephyrite_Color_Swatch:_Yellow

Please note that when you use one, you actually get to select the color it gives you, it’s not random.

Careful with that, though. I recall when those came out people did a price comparison and the Color Swatch effectively cost more than the TP price of the most expensive dye you could get from the Swatch. Moreover, it cost enough more that you could get all the dyes it offered, including the most expensive, for not much more than you paid for the Swatch.

If you are buying gems with gold it is but if you are going the other way the swatch is cheaper for one of the dyes. For everything else you are wasting a lot of money/gold.

Having those unidentified dyes drop would change nothing as far as the 240g dye is concerned. Those dyes were never available through the Unidentified Dyes. Out of all the dyes you can get from the Unidentified Dyes only 6 are worth more than 7g.

Azala Yar.7693:

Making dyes as a cook would be something to complain about.

Made 40 rare dyes the other day which needed around 54 gold worth of materials and a few thousand karma.

What I got for all the time and resources was 40 dyes with a market value of less than 10 gold. couldn’t even use any of them as had them already.

Needless to say I won’t be making any more.

This I can identify with.

In general even the basic materials for cooking are very painful to acquire compared to other crafting professions. Making dyes as a Chef feels like it’s an incomplete portion of the profession.

Unfortunately GW2 has made gold farming the ideal method for getting everything you need. It is far easier to farm the gold than it is to farm the materials you need for just about everything.

Now that we’ve had our supply and demand lessons, it still hasn’t changed the fact that there is virtually no supply of dye. Seriously. Virtually no supply. And I shouldn’t be forced to buy only two select dyes on the trading post (for exorbitant amounts of gold) and be happy with that because “thems the breaks, you impoverished fool. I’m going to go craft 4 more legendaries and wait for you to buy my 70g dye because I’ve already unlocked all my dyes and don’t care if you do.” I should be able to obtain them on my own, like everything else in the game. Can I get a legendary? You bet I can (eventually)! Can I buy a precursor? Nope! But I can farm like heck and eventually get one. I can farm t6 mats. I can craft or pvp for mystic clovers. What can i do to get more dyes? They’re just not there. I would like to be able to obtain all of the dyes, just like you guys.
P.s. Somebody just sent me an in game email with some unid’d dyes. Want to say thank you! And what a neat community in gw2 we have. To that person, just to let you know, I was able to unlock 3 new dyes on my account and made me very happy!

I’m not sure I understand. If you can ‘farm like heck’ and buy a precursor, why can’t you ‘farm like heck’ and buy UNID dyes? Or are you saying that you expect to get a precursor from a random loot drop? I imagine dyes drop about the same percentage, if not a better percentage, of the time as precursors drop.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I’m not sure I understand. If you can ‘farm like heck’ and buy a precursor, why can’t you ‘farm like heck’ and buy UNID dyes? Or are you saying that you expect to get a precursor from a random loot drop? I imagine dyes drop about the same percentage, if not a better percentage, of the time as precursors drop.

Dyes don’t drop from enemies. They’re not a part of any of the enemy loot tables.

Of course, there’s absolutely nothing stopping him from making a new character to farm Bags of Loot for Unidentified Dyes, nothing stopping him from farming up the materials to make Chef Dyes (if it’s not “break even” on average, then that means that the supply is bigger than the demand for the end dyes, and this entire complaint is bunk in the first place), and nothing stopping him from just farming gold and buying the dye in the first place (which you mentioned).

Tigaseye.2047:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Tigaseye.2047:

I’ve listened, I just don’t happen to agree in the case of the most extreme priced dye(s).

As far as I can tell, you have yet to point out a specific dye that has increased to an extreme amount.

I pointed out one that currently costs 234g.

Surely you know which one that is?

Not sure it’s “increased” to that, but it costs that.

And why is 234g a magic number that means the price is too high? Given the popularity of the color and the fact that it unlocks for all characters, it’s a better deal than what it cost before the wardrobe was introduced.

edit: adding some specific comparisons

The most expensive dye that drops from Unidentified Dyes (those that are the topic of the OP) is currently Celestial, at ~75g (highest buy offer) to ~92g (lowest sell offer). This same dye sold for 25g in December 2013 (before the Wardrobe was announced) and 44g in March 2014 (after the announcement, but when unidentified dyes still dropped from plants). In other words, the current price is less than 4x it’s pre-Wardrobe price, even though it unlocks the color for all characters.

None of the dyes available from the old system cost 234g; only the limited edition dyes cost that much and many of those are actually much cheaper now than they were originally. Shadow Abyss is an exception, but then again, it’s the new blackest black and it’s only been out a short time.

tl;dr the new system remains cheaper for each account than the older system.

Shadow abyss ftw