E-Specs: A Dangerous and Barren Future

E-Specs: A Dangerous and Barren Future

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Erasmus.1624

Erasmus.1624

What is the downside to taking an elite specialization? What truly changes when an e-spec slaps an extra button onto a player’s profession mechanic bar? Are there any reasons not to use those abilities when they’re available? Are there any situations in which a player would just rather forgo that button because of how combat is flowing or do players simply wait with baited breath for them to come off of recharge? Did e-specs truly add anything new to the game other than more rotations and blatantly obvious, minimalistic combos bound by high cooldowns?

How about mechanics? What new mechanics did e-specs add to the game? Alacrity? Alacrity doesn’t change how anyone “uses” a skill. A player affected by alacrity still uses the same skills, they just come off of cooldown faster. Utility skill types? Most were recycled (although they were implemented at a level that made the HoT ones direct upgrades), and we’re still nowhere near the point at which one’s utility skill type selection matters to anyone but that person who selected them. Given the lack of interaction between the abilities of any given player and the abilities selected/employed by any other player, there is quite arguably no reason for utility skill types at all. The only thing keeping the existence of such “types” remotely relevant are trait passives.

  • Healing
  • Damage (condition; power)
  • CC (stun; daze)
  • Stun-break
  • Immunity (stability; invulnerability; evasion; “damage reduced to 0”)
  • Scripted movement (leaps; dashes)*

Fundamentally, there are about 5 total unique, combat-defining actions that any player can take in Guild Wars 2. This leaves us with a very shallow basin to fill (or overfill) with classes who sport—at the very least—16 skills (average being more like low 20s). With this sort of set-up, is it any wonder we have weapon sets that have duplicated skill functionalities, “wasted” skill slots (those which feature an ability which nobody necessarily values as a standalone effect) or weapon sets which invite players to effortlessly cast all available skills and then wait until they can swap weapons? Abilities that are part of a weapon bar, but aren’t necessarily ever prioritized, included into a rotation as an afterthought/very low-priority addition or are ignored entirely because they don’t do enough damage or have a “useful” effect?

What about utility skills? Aren’t there enough utility, heal and elite skills just lying on the ground never equipped by anyone anymore? Things that were maybe flavor of the month once but were either replaced or reduced to worthlessness by damage/effect or cooldown nerfs? The same could be said for traits as well. Even the respective pools of runes and sigils are bursting at the seams with wholly neglected assets (although, that’s probably a different issue than what’s discussed here).

So then I ask, what is the point of adding more assets to the game when there are perfectly good foundations for additional elite specs already in the game? Whether it was Anet’s intention or not, we’ve seen that skills can be entirely altered in game-changing ways. In the interest of removing the illusion of choice in order to provide actual, meaningful options to players, why not transform underused or unused abilities into the cornerstones of future elite specs?

The biggest example I could push related to this approach would be a revamp to the Ranger class’ specialization options and profession skills:

Specialization 1 (base at character creation): RANGER

  • Condition/Control spec
  • Access to traps (traps are entirely reworked to promote more unique usage among them individually)
  • Preparations as profession mechanic (F1-F2; options taken from a pool)
  • Preparations are charge mechanics with multiple stages. Each stage that is successfully fully charged will reward 1 stack of the related preparation when the channel is released. Preparation charges are consumed by various actions and have unique control, damage and support roles.
  • Preparations have no cooldown, but each reaching a stage during a channel will consume a set amount of resource from a resource pool which regenerates over time.

Specialization 2: BEASTMASTER

  • Power/Tank spec
  • Access to pets and shouts (shouts could probably use a rework given their current, bland nature)
  • Profession mechanic: Pets (F1-F2; skill slots with options taken from a pool; identical to Revenant spirits)
  • Healing through Elite skills altered to function identically to Revenant spirits. Skills change depending on the active pet.
  • Pets have a shared health bar which functions the “resource” mechanic. Current active pet can be stowed instantly with F3. Swapping or stowing a pet puts it into a 10s cooldown. If the pet health bar is below 50%, swapping or stowing a pet while still in combat will automatically restore the bar to 50%.

Specialization 3: DRUID

  • Healer/Support spec
  • More or less unchanged except for various adjustments to traits to make it more of a specified choice with a clear role rather than just a direct upgrade to other “options.”
  • Profession mechanic: Celestial Avatar (F1)

Ranger pets have never been a refined addition to GW2. Since launch, Rangers have complained about pets dying all the time to ambient AoE and asking for more control over the pet in order to prevent this. Instead of addressing the issue of the disconnect between this forced AI unit and player control, anet just made pets constantly teleport and move at blinding speeds toward the Ranger at any given moment. Then they buffed their stats by absurd amounts across the board. Then after that, they just made them take outright 90% less damage from all sources while in PvE. Finally, they introduced the HoT pets, among which the meta PvP options simply teleport, evade and blind while continuing to take very little damage via their yet absurd baseline stats.

By freeing all but one Ranger spec from the chains of bad GW2 AI, we can focus on improving the individual contributions of the player within the scope of those specs. By then designing the Beastmaster as the only spec with the AI unit and having it focus on damage reduction while also giving it a better interface with which to control the pet’s actions, we can cover every single base GW2 has to offer mechanically with a mere 3 baseline specializations (a mere 3 trait lines).

Ranger is not the only case like this. Aside from the Reaper (which still ended up being a direct upgrade anyway), the other specializations don’t truly change the way that the base classes already work; they typically just slap another skill onto the profession bar and call it a day. Sure, rotations may be different and some new little mini-combos may crop up here and there, but ultimately there is still that old profession still sitting there trying to pretend that an F5 can cover it up all up with a rug. If we keep things simple and utilize what the game already has, we can envision a GW2 with actual options, defined player roles and fairer balance among options within a single class and across all classes.

E-Specs: A Dangerous and Barren Future

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Asclepios.4295

Asclepios.4295

TL;DR

If your rant is about e-spec not changing enough the gameplay, I beg to differ. I have played revenant, guardian and necros with e-spe so far, and it deeply modified each class, providing a nice experience.

I love the idea of e-spec. We can imagine that future add-ons will add more e-spec, and that each class can choose only 1 at a time, gaining access to 1 more weapon type and skills range, giving each class the potential for different flavors. Right now there is only 1 e-spec per class, so it looks to most players like a to-go. But considering how much it already changes the gameplay and considering there will be more added to the game, what they bring is very obvious and promising.

E-Specs: A Dangerous and Barren Future

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: moontothecake.4532

moontothecake.4532

It has been stated countless times. This game has no trinity and what you are suggesting is exactly that. Base ranger ( DPS) Beastmaster ( Tank) Druid (Heals). Classes were designed to be to handle any role regardless. Elite specs has kept with that mentality. All elite specs can handle these roles, some better than others, but again there is no need for a trinity in this game. In regards to pets teleporting… please go back and look at the pets. Only one pet does this and that’s the smokescale which was nerfed quite a few times and F2 skill altered since launch.

E-Specs: A Dangerous and Barren Future

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Danikat.8537

Danikat.8537

I don’t think elite specialisations were ever intended to completely change a profession. I’ve always thought of them as the same as Dragon Age’s specialisations or the prestige classes in DnD. They add some new options the base profession doesn’t have, but it’s not a new one in it’s own right. Otherwise they would have been added as separate professions.

As for whether there’s a downside I’d say losing 1/3 of the traits you had previously could be a pretty major downside for many people. It really put me off playing a druid for a long time, until I decided I really wanted to use one of the glyphs. But if there was a way to equip the new skills without taking the trait line I’d switch back in a second.

I do like the extra healing skills, but contrary to your assumption that everyone is using them constantly as soon as they come off recharge I tend to think of mine as strictly a ‘panic button’: if I, or someone in my party, needs healing and my normal heal skill is on recharge or already deployed elsewhere then I’ll use it but I regularly go through entire fights, even entire events, where I don’t touch it at all.

Maybe it’s different for people whose elite is an extra attack instead of extra healing, but it seems unlikely to me. Unless you’re the type of person to just spam whatever buttons you’ve got until the fight is over. Which can work in simple fights but is not generally a great tactic.

As for the second half, which seems to be the same old request to play a ranger without a pet, I for one would be absolutely against that. As Anet have explained time and time again the ranger is supposed to be a pet class first and foremost. If you want a generic archer play a warrior. (Or a thief, or guardian or any other profession with ranged weapons…which is all of them.)

Danielle Aurorel, Dear Dragon We Got Your Cookies [Nom], Desolation (EU).

“Life’s a journey, not a destination.”

E-Specs: A Dangerous and Barren Future

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Sarrs.4831

Sarrs.4831

So I’ll just type a super quick response here because this thread makes absolutely no sense. Your topic is elite specs but you never really speak about the system and you spend most of your post complaining about ranger AI.

we’re still nowhere near the point at which one’s utility skill type selection matters to anyone but that person who selected them.

Uh yeah sure. Hitting an Ele who just popped Armor of Earth with Corrupt Boon really doesn’t matter to them. They’re just fine they don’t care.

I mean come on this is absurd.

Nalhadia – Kaineng

(edited by Sarrs.4831)

E-Specs: A Dangerous and Barren Future

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

I’m afraid I don’t play my main, Ranger, as you describe, at all. Haven’t really seen the complaints about Rangers and pets in some time here like we used to, either. Perhaps, the Elites and other changes are the reason….I don’t know.

Good luck.

E-Specs: A Dangerous and Barren Future

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Ragion.2831

Ragion.2831

All these issues of Elite specs being mandatory or OP wouldn’t be happening if they had done the smart thing and designed them to be an add on to the cores not a replacement…smh

E-Specs: A Dangerous and Barren Future

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Asclepios.4295

Asclepios.4295

All these issues of Elite specs being mandatory or OP wouldn’t be happening if they had done the smart thing and designed them to be an add on to the cores not a replacement…smh

I disagree. I think e-spec should be to traits what e-skills are to skillsets: you can choose only one, and it is meant to be your most powerful. Now, yes, I believe they should have introduced at least 2 e-specs for each class at once. I believe most of the complaints come from the misconception of what e-specs are, and it is misleading there is only 1 available. Wait until a second one or more show up and you will all change your mind.

E-Specs: A Dangerous and Barren Future

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: keenedge.9675

keenedge.9675

I agree that the OP is mostly about the ranger, but I think there is a point here. Elite specs should have some choice of the direction you’d like to specialize. Just like in DnD, you get a dual-class option. Elite should offer more choice instead of only one flavor.

I play a ranger as a main and often as solo. The druid spec is not an enhancement to any ranger style game play. It seems primarily to benefit to have party work only. I’d love to have a different flavor of elite spec.

“John Spartan, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute”

E-Specs: A Dangerous and Barren Future

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: keenedge.9675

keenedge.9675

I found this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Suggestions-Future-Elite-Specializations/first

Rich discussion of possibilities . . .

“John Spartan, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute”

E-Specs: A Dangerous and Barren Future

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Serious.7083

Serious.7083

It has been stated countless times. This game has no trinity and what you are suggesting is exactly that.

When GW2 started it did indeed have no trinity, except things have changed. The last raid I was in did have a tank, a guardian. It had an elementalist healer, and it had a lot of DPS.

The ranger has an issue in that it lacks ability when doing small group and 1v1. That makes it rather less likely to be selected for sPvP. The pet does help a lot in PvE, but elsewhere people have learned to avoid it and hit the ranger.

When they were designing the first Raid wing it was decided to give Rangers a lot of healing potential. They are indeed replacement monks in that respect. It works well enough in the limited scope of raids but in WvW it gives very little advantage unless you have a large number of people.

The problem is that a group of tanky people using condition damage with a healer can take a huge amount of damage without dying, it can be impossible to kill such a group with a similar number of players. By putting ‘monks’ back in the game for raids they have unbalanced the game elsewhere.

E-Specs: A Dangerous and Barren Future

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

All these issues of Elite specs being mandatory or OP wouldn’t be happening if they had done the smart thing and designed them to be an add on to the cores not a replacement…smh

I disagree. I think e-spec should be to traits what e-skills are to skillsets: you can choose only one, and it is meant to be your most powerful.

You do remember, when people kept asking about ability to use a normal utlity skill in the elite slot, and the general answer was “no, that would be too OP”? Fun times.

Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November

E-Specs: A Dangerous and Barren Future

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: DoctorDing.5890

DoctorDing.5890

I could get excited about some of the elites but as someone with an Ele main I find the elite spec a bit Meh.
Warhorns will never be cool.

E-Specs: A Dangerous and Barren Future

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Deus Fatorum.2473

Deus Fatorum.2473

What about utility skills? Aren’t there enough utility, heal and elite skills just lying on the ground never equipped by anyone anymore? Things that were maybe flavor of the month once but were either replaced or reduced to worthlessness by damage/effect or cooldown nerfs? The same could be said for traits as well. Even the respective pools of runes and sigils are bursting at the seams with wholly neglected assets (although, that’s probably a different issue than what’s discussed here).

This is actually a pretty good point.

We have seen flavor of the month build changes, but there are many weapon skill sets, traits, runes, sigils, etc. that have been horribly neglected, and I do feel in some ways HoT has not helped with this and in some instances created this. Due to the power creep with the elite specs you are forced into at least one trait line already(if 99% of the time it is more powerful why would you not.) However that alone I could live with, but now you have less options as only two trait lines are optional. Add in the neglected traits, and underused weapons, and build diversity goes way down.

For example let’s look at necro, necro is one of the few classes you may choose to not take the elite spec and still get by OK. However most people will take reaper. After that we pretty much need soul reaping. Now we have been already been locked into two out of the three lines, and within those lines we have worthless or sub-par traits like “fear of death.”

We could also Look at warrior traits the same way, or we could talk about things other than just traits like engineer’s rifle…

TLDR- We are forced into some trait lines, there are many outperformed/useless individual traits, and other weapon/utility skills that are subpar and outperformed.

If some of these were reworked and brought up there could be more build diversity.(at a minimum more options for the next flavor of the month build.)

E-Specs: A Dangerous and Barren Future

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Ardid.7203

Ardid.7203

E-Specs do change profession gamestyle. All of them except Scrapper, of course.

“Only problem with the Engineer is
that it makes every other class in the game boring to play.”
Hawks

E-Specs: A Dangerous and Barren Future

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: nsleep.7839

nsleep.7839

E-Specs do change profession gamestyle. All of them except Scrapper, of course.

Ha ha.

I don’t even dude.