Guild Wars 2

Is it just me or are the vast majority of elite skills merely another utility skill with a 3 times higher cool down for inexplicable reasons?

The game basically plays like a moba with the limited amount of skills you can use in a build but in that genre elite skills tend to be game changers or really noticable spikes in your combos.

However, when I look at the elite skills of ranger, ele, engineer, warrior or guardian (except for dragonhunter) their elite skills are anything but game changing. Perhaps this is more noticable in PVP. In PVE I don’t see the difference an elite version of my air elemental which still doesn’t deal any significant damage makes.
I also don’t see the point in mortar which deals less power damage and has less range than a ranger’s long bow and only has 1 damaging condition but is infinitely hard to land shots with in return. Or how about an AoE root which champions and ranged enemies simply ignore?

Even if it’s a PVE issue, how is Rebound! any good in pvp with it’s cast time? You’re probably dead before you can use it and it only absorbing one hit doesn’t really matter when people spam you with conditions and multi-hit abilities.

Of all the classes I play, only mesmer’s elite skills seem to make a noticable difference.

Now I don’t say all these skills don’t have their times shine. It’s easy to make up niche situations where they might do what they’re intended to do and perhaps they’re even effecitve at it some times. However, does that really match the expectations of an elite skill? Does this really warrant a 3 or 4 times longer cooldown than most of your utility skills?

If you disagree- let me ask you this: Are you sure you wouldn’t some times, or with some classes, prefer a 4th utility skill slot over an elite one?

I don’t disagree. I’m not sure, however, that Anet intended for Elite Skills to be vastly more powerful than other utilities. IMO I think they just wanted them slightly more powerful or unique.

Some of the mesmer’s elites are not game changing powerful in PvE but they are unique and fun. Different than their other utility skills. That is what is lacking IMO.

To many of the other professions skills aren’t that much different than other utilities and therefore don’t feel very “elite” because of this.

In my opinion, time warp is fairly strong in PVE and gravity well is pretty good at breaking defiance (for a single ability at least).

I see your point though. The question is: why the exceptionally long cool down then? And why did they remove tomes from guardian? They were one of the most unique elite skills in the game…

Escadin.9482:

In my opinion, time warp is fairly strong in PVE and gravity well is pretty good at breaking defiance (for a single ability at least).

I see your point though. The question is: why the exceptionally long cool down then? And why did they remove tombs from guardian? They were one of the most unique elite skills in the game…

Gravity well bomb on WVW is super effective lol…
Guardian never had tombs :P, they were tomes.

Aeolus.3615:

Guardian never had tombs :P, they were tomes.

!https://duckduckgo.com/i/67a95c5e.jpg!

I believe that tomes were discontinued because for many they were difficult to use. Yes they were unique and I wish they would have made their use easier rather than getting rid of them. Of course, they revitalized the tomes a little bit with the druid who now has a tablet.

I think the long cool downs are there so that these slightly higher in power skills don’t eclipse and render regular utilities into sub-par status. I believe they want us to utilize the whole skill bar effectively.

As far as specific spells, we can all name examples of ones that are super good here and there, but if you look at elites as a whole they are only slightly higher in power than normal utilities.

jheryn.8390:

I don’t disagree. I’m not sure, however, that Anet intended for Elite Skills to be vastly more powerful than other utilities. IMO I think they just wanted them slightly more powerful or unique.

Some of the mesmer’s elites are not game changing powerful in PvE but they are unique and fun. Different than their other utility skills. That is what is lacking IMO.

To many of the other professions skills aren’t that much different than other utilities and therefore don’t feel very “elite” because of this.

Glyph of greater elementals comes to mind, which is nearly identical to the glyph of lesser elementals utility.
I believe that elementalists are the worst offenders when it comes to bad elite skills. The biggest gem is definitely tornado, which even after the buff from last patch, is still considered to be the 50% risk of slotting elixir X on your engineer. If slotting utilities in the elite slot was an option, I don’t think that any elementalist would ever use an elite.

In the beginning it was Anet’s intention to make elite skills game changers. But over time, and for various reasons, they toned them down. I still remember a couple of the elites being very powerful and they definitely fit in the game changer catagory.

I remember a lot of complaints from the playerbase about various elites being too strong, and I suspect that was the main reason for the change in direction.

I am ok with elites being slightly more powerful utility skills, but I do wish they would revisit some of the cooldowns, because some of them really aren’t warranted. Some skills were nerfed but the cooldowns remained long. That really is my only issue with some elites.

I personally do not want super powerful game changing skills, because then it just comes down to who has their elite off cooldown and player skill goes out the window. All they need to do is balance some of the cooldowns to be more appropriate to how powerful the skill is.

Escadin.9482:

in that genre elite skills tend to be game changers or really noticable spikes in your combos.

However, when I look at the elite skills of ranger, ele, engineer, warrior or guardian their elite skills are anything but game changing.

on ranger i love the AoE roots, its really strong and lasts a really long time if they don’t destroy it.

ele is notorious for lacking a useful elite so i’ll grant you that, (though i’ve accomplished some awesome things with Tornado)

engi dropping supply crate can be a huge game changer, an AoE stun couples with healing, rooting, a water field and bonus damage.
Elixir X also brings me to the next one, warrior’s rampage.

RAMPAGE, is a huge game changer, unless you polymorph someone with rampage they will wreak havoc, it doesn’t last very long, but while it is active they are a force to be reckoned with.
i prefer headbutt however, the damage is “ok” the stun is handy but the ability to gain a full bar of adrenaline on a short cooldown is amazing!
it means that if you choose, you can initiate every fight with a stun and a full bar of adrenaline.

as to Guard, Renewed Focus is handy as an invulnerability period, but the ability to refresh every Virtue is a cornerstone of some builds,
personally i always use the signet for the passive healing and if things get tough you can heal your entire team to full HP, not too underwhelming if you ask me!

tl;dr i disagree that elites are underwhelming, many are certainly a game changer.

Ganathar.4956:

jheryn.8390:

I don’t disagree. I’m not sure, however, that Anet intended for Elite Skills to be vastly more powerful than other utilities. IMO I think they just wanted them slightly more powerful or unique.

Some of the mesmer’s elites are not game changing powerful in PvE but they are unique and fun. Different than their other utility skills. That is what is lacking IMO.

To many of the other professions skills aren’t that much different than other utilities and therefore don’t feel very “elite” because of this.

Glyph of greater elementals comes to mind, which is nearly identical to the glyph of lesser elementals utility.
I believe that elementalists are the worst offenders when it comes to bad elite skills. The biggest gem is definitely tornado, which even after the buff from last patch, is still considered to be the 50% risk of slotting elixir X on your engineer. If slotting utilities in the elite slot was an option, I don’t think that any elementalist would ever use an elite.

Every elementalist would just end up using another defensive skill or traited cantrip/shout… When they nerfed Ice Bow by 50% I proposed to the dev that they make it an elite skill instead. They preferred to make the Ice Bow totally useless instead of giving the elementalist a proper elite.

They should have gotten rid of the idea of elite skills when they decided to replace their roles with grandmaster traits.

Many elite skills do feel underwhelming for sure, but I think that’s mostly because of the absurd cooldowns on some of them.

A few tweaks should do it though, make them a bit stronger, lower the cooldowns some. My biggest gripe with some of them is that the skill itself is relatively fun/powerful to use but its cooldown is so high that I can’t justify taking it in PvE because I would almost never be able to use it (SoH comes to mind, its only useful for breaking large defiance bars in PvE, otherwise gravity well/TW is much more useful). If the cooldowns are kept as high as they are then I would like to see a lot of them become much more powerful

Liewec.2896:

on ranger i love the AoE roots, its really strong and lasts a really long time if they don’t destroy it.

You get the exact same effect on a 10s cool down instead of 60 as a major trait in the new skill tree. And again, I don’t think immobilize as a condition plays a huge role in PVE, since in every situation where you’d want to change the direction of a fight (champions, dungeon bosses, ckaks, shadow leapers, mushroom bombers, all the nasty enemies) it doesn’t have any effect at all.

I can’t comment on warrior though, never played it.

Agreed. In GW1, your build often revolved around your elite skill. It would be a pretty rare thing to use a build without an elite skill. In GW2, the elite skill is rarely or never the centerpiece of a build. I’ve often wished the elite skill slot could use another utility skill instead of an elite. I’ve suggested that before and people said that would be overpowered. If having a utility skill instead of an elite would be overpowered, that should tell us something about the quality of the elite skills…

Agreed with Ele Elites being crap for the most part. The only semi-decent ones are “Rebound!” and FGS.

“Rebound!” is only good because it’s an on-demand Aura; I can’t remember when its heal has actually mattered for me.

FGS is only good for its mobility.

Tornado is a big steaming pile of moa droppings; it has its niche uses in decapping I suppose, but it’s like plastering a huge “KILL ME” sign on yourself.

Glyph of Elementals is only somewhat useful in PvE if you need a tank; the other Elementals don’t last long enough to be useful.

All of these, except for “Rebound!” have insane cool downs. NONE are as game-changing as, for example, Moa or Rampage.

I’d much rather have another Utility slot.

To say I “use” my warrior’s elite skill is overstating. Signet of Rage. I camp it because the other options are very conditional and/or are on long cooldowns. Banner is conditional, but very useful, but also a huge cooldown. Rampage is a Transform, and all of those, without fail, feel incredibly clunky and unrefined.

Most other classes, I feel roughly the same.
Necro = elite minion. Hard to argue with an extra body to draw aggro and inflict constant cripple. Lich form is Eh form.
Ele’s mortar is.. conditionally decent. Huge range, so I’m not sure where the lacking comparison to ranger longbow comes in. No really, absurd range, like half-White-Mantle-Knight range. And it can lob a healing shell. Elixir and Supply Crate are grab-bags of utility.
Ranger support elites are decent for their cooldown. Not “great”, but worth having on the bar. Considering there are regular utility skills with nearly equivalent cooldowns, I’m not as bothered on their elites.
Most Thief skills (not just elites) feel lackluster. I still use a racial skill in my set, and Thieves Guild is merely for the extra bodies, since I solo much of the time.
Elementalist elites are also lackluster, but at least elemental gives an extra aggro-body.
Mesmer is about the only class where the elites feel like they do something good.

So yeah, I’m also underwhelmed by the elites. Half the time, they compare only slightly better than utility skills, and I have to be too stingy with using them.

Glenstorm.4059:

Agreed with Ele Elites being crap for the most part. The only semi-decent ones are “Rebound!” and FGS.

“Rebound!” is only good because it’s an on-demand Aura; I can’t remember when its heal has actually mattered for me.

FGS is only good for its mobility.

Tornado is a big steaming pile of moa droppings; it has its niche uses in decapping I suppose, but it’s like plastering a huge “KILL ME” sign on yourself.

Glyph of Elementals is only somewhat useful in PvE if you need a tank; the other Elementals don’t last long enough to be useful.

All of these, except for “Rebound!” have insane cool downs. NONE are as game-changing as, for example, Moa or Rampage.

I’d much rather have another Utility slot.

There is an even more niche role for Tornado. when you are doing the last HoT mission with friends and they are dead but the boss’s breakbar is scaled for 3 people …

Rauderi.8706:

Ele’s mortar is.. conditionally decent. Huge range, so I’m not sure where the lacking comparison to ranger longbow comes in. No really, absurd range, like half-White-Mantle-Knight range. And it can lob a healing shell. Elixir and Supply

Mortar has very slow projectile speed.

Khisanth.2948:

There is an even more niche role for Tornado. when you are doing the last HoT mission with friends and they are dead but the boss’s breakbar is scaled for 3 people …

It’s also fun to pair with Lightning Rod. But still not really viable most of the time.

Khisanth.2948:

Rauderi.8706:

Ele’s mortar is.. conditionally decent. Huge range, so I’m not sure where the lacking comparison to ranger longbow comes in. No really, absurd range, like half-White-Mantle-Knight range. And it can lob a healing shell. Elixir and Supply

Mortar has very slow projectile speed.

Yup. Not using that bad boy while soloing, that’s for sure. And probably not in a rapidly moving battle. Like I said, conditionally useful. Great for bombarding more stationary targets, though.

Rauderi.8706:

Ele’s mortar is.. conditionally decent. Huge range, so I’m not sure where the lacking comparison to ranger longbow comes in. No really, absurd range, like half-White-Mantle-Knight range. And it can lob a healing shell. Elixir and Supply Crate are grab-bags of utility.

I’m just saying the okittenoesn’t feel like an elite weapon at all. It’s not stronger than any other kit you have – it just has more range but that range is kitten hard to utilize. At the same time, I have a ranger with the same gear and level and his long bow does more damage and has more range than the mortar.
So the mortar kit fails to be actually better than other kits but it is also not a very strong weapon when compared to what else the game offers in it’s category. Unless of course that water field is so strong it can make up for the lack of damage, range and projectile speed. I wouldn’t know about that…

At least it doesn’t have an excessive cooldown and having a long range option can’t hurt. Still it’s far from being a game changer with that kind of balance – in my opinion at least.

Anyway, considering the mokittenoes not have a disproportionately high cool down it probably wasn’t the best example to bring up.

PS can anybody explain how “mortar” + ‘space’ + “does” is a bad word and needs to be censored?

Escadin.9482:

PS can anybody explain how “mortar” + ‘space’ + “does” is a bad word and needs to be censored?

Yes because of the last three letters of mortar and the first letter of does spells a word that is banned by the filter. Same would be with the words “doesn’t” and “it”.

The filter on here is rather poor IMO.

ey look someone did another underwhelming elite topic, havent seen that for awhile. They are underwhelming in some way, my favorite elite on my main is entangle because of good CC and short CD aka a fifth utility.

Orion Templar.4589:

Agreed. In GW1, your build often revolved around your elite skill. It would be a pretty rare thing to use a build without an elite skill. In GW2, the elite skill is rarely or never the centerpiece of a build. I’ve often wished the elite skill slot could use another utility skill instead of an elite. I’ve suggested that before and people said that would be overpowered. If having a utility skill instead of an elite would be overpowered, that should tell us something about the quality of the elite skills…

Many elites in GW1 weren’t game-breaking, they were just ‘better’ than standard skills. Most importantly, their cooldowns were generally short enough to make them part of your regular rotation instead of a panic button.

/glassarrowsftw

Major Domo.9250:

Many elites in GW1 weren’t game-breaking, they were just ‘better’ than standard skills. Most importantly, their cooldowns were generally short enough to make them part of your regular rotation instead of a panic button.

/glassarrowsftw

Yep – agreed. I think elites in GW2 would be more fun if they were designed to be part of regular rotation. I don’t think dedicating a skill slot to a panic button is very fun.

Escadin.9482:

Rauderi.8706:

Ele’s mortar is.. conditionally decent. Huge range, so I’m not sure where the lacking comparison to ranger longbow comes in. No really, absurd range, like half-White-Mantle-Knight range. And it can lob a healing shell. Elixir and Supply Crate are grab-bags of utility.

I’m just saying the okittenoesn’t feel like an elite weapon at all. It’s not stronger than any other kit you have – it just has more range but that range is kitten hard to utilize. At the same time, I have a ranger with the same gear and level and his long bow does more damage and has more range than the mortar.
So the mortar kit fails to be actually better than other kits but it is also not a very strong weapon when compared to what else the game offers in it’s category. Unless of course that water field is so strong it can make up for the lack of damage, range and projectile speed. I wouldn’t know about that…

At least it doesn’t have an excessive cooldown and having a long range option can’t hurt. Still it’s far from being a game changer with that kind of balance – in my opinion at least.

Anyway, considering the mokittenoes not have a disproportionately high cool down it probably wasn’t the best example to bring up.

PS can anybody explain how “mortar” + ‘space’ + “does” is a bad word and needs to be censored?

Man, you have so many kittens, your home instance must look like a huge litterbox. XD

But yeah, fully agreed that the mortar kit doesn’t feel like an “elite” swap, just another utility with superlative range. Since most elites are lackluster, it’s no surprise, but I figure the main balance on it is that the kit doesn’t have a cooldown, so it can’t be overwhelmingly powerful.

Escadin.9482:

Rauderi.8706:

Ele’s mortar is.. conditionally decent. Huge range, so I’m not sure where the lacking comparison to ranger longbow comes in. No really, absurd range, like half-White-Mantle-Knight range. And it can lob a healing shell. Elixir and Supply Crate are grab-bags of utility.

I’m just saying the okittenoesn’t feel like an elite weapon at all. It’s not stronger than any other kit you have – it just has more range but that range is kitten hard to utilize. At the same time, I have a ranger with the same gear and level and his long bow does more damage and has more range than the mortar.
So the mortar kit fails to be actually better than other kits but it is also not a very strong weapon when compared to what else the game offers in it’s category. Unless of course that water field is so strong it can make up for the lack of damage, range and projectile speed. I wouldn’t know about that…

At least it doesn’t have an excessive cooldown and having a long range option can’t hurt. Still it’s far from being a game changer with that kind of balance – in my opinion at least.

Anyway, considering the mokittenoes not have a disproportionately high cool down it probably wasn’t the best example to bring up.

PS can anybody explain how “mortar” + ‘space’ + “does” is a bad word and needs to be censored?

Mortar kit is also the only thing with a 100% projectile finisher on the autoattack. In theory that could make it interesting in combination with all the fields you get from the other skills but in practice I never found a reason to care.

Rin.1046:

In the beginning it was Anet’s intention to make elite skills game changers. But over time, and for various reasons, they toned them down. I still remember a couple of the elites being very powerful and they definitely fit in the game changer catagory.

I remember a lot of complaints from the playerbase about various elites being too strong, and I suspect that was the main reason for the change in direction.

I am ok with elites being slightly more powerful utility skills, but I do wish they would revisit some of the cooldowns, because some of them really aren’t warranted. Some skills were nerfed but the cooldowns remained long. That really is my only issue with some elites.

I personally do not want super powerful game changing skills, because then it just comes down to who has their elite off cooldown and player skill goes out the window. All they need to do is balance some of the cooldowns to be more appropriate to how powerful the skill is.

This is a pretty noteworthy post: at launch, these skills were typically really, really strong. A lot of the PvP came down to whose elite was up rather than using the rest of one’s kit. It wasn’t particularly fun, as a lot of the mechanics were pretty abusive and just stupid, like how BV worked at launch in that if you got hit by it you effectively died, since it ignored stability and couldn’t be stunbroken from (and lasted longer).

I, personally, do not think that making elites bland rather than having them function differently in PvP is worth the trade. If they cannot be made to actually live up to their descriptor, then they should be turned into utilities, which is all that they really are IMO, and have that slot be another utility slot.

DeceiverX.8361:

Rin.1046:

In the beginning it was Anet’s intention to make elite skills game changers. But over time, and for various reasons, they toned them down. I still remember a couple of the elites being very powerful and they definitely fit in the game changer catagory.

I remember a lot of complaints from the playerbase about various elites being too strong, and I suspect that was the main reason for the change in direction.

I am ok with elites being slightly more powerful utility skills, but I do wish they would revisit some of the cooldowns, because some of them really aren’t warranted. Some skills were nerfed but the cooldowns remained long. That really is my only issue with some elites.

I personally do not want super powerful game changing skills, because then it just comes down to who has their elite off cooldown and player skill goes out the window. All they need to do is balance some of the cooldowns to be more appropriate to how powerful the skill is.

This is a pretty noteworthy post: at launch, these skills were typically really, really strong. A lot of the PvP came down to whose elite was up rather than using the rest of one’s kit. It wasn’t particularly fun, as a lot of the mechanics were pretty abusive and just stupid, like how BV worked at launch in that if you got hit by it you effectively died, since it ignored stability and couldn’t be stunbroken from (and lasted longer).

Honestly not surprised that they were nerfed across the board because they were too strong in PvP. They don’t necessarily have to be buffed again, but I do think that currently most elites feel very underwhelming

Khisanth.2948:

Mortar kit is also the only thing with a 100% projectile finisher on the autoattack. In theory that could make it interesting in combination with all the fields you get from the other skills but in practice I never found a reason to care.

Apparently, that has only an effect if you directly hit with the shell – not the area of effect.

1) That makes it worse than, for example, long bows projectile finisher which can hit 5 targets.
2) That gives it an effective like <5% chance to actually happen for me personally. Perhaps I’m just bad but directly hitting a moving target at least 1 out of 5 times (20%) seems already way out of my capabilities… especially near max range.

The projectile doesn’t even collide with enemies as far as I can tell so the target probably has to be standing at the exact center of where your targeting circle was before the shell finally arrives like 2 seconds later.

You know the elite skills are bad when people rather have the option to equip another utility skill than an elite. They totally missed the ball on what the elite skill used to mean in gw1.

I feel elite is the wrong word for them, they are just strong utility skills

Escadin.9482:

Khisanth.2948:

Mortar kit is also the only thing with a 100% projectile finisher on the autoattack. In theory that could make it interesting in combination with all the fields you get from the other skills but in practice I never found a reason to care.

Apparently, that has only an effect if you directly hit with the shell – not the area of effect.

That is the same as any other projectile finisher. It just means you need to leave some room for the projectile to fly through a field before it hits the target.

Ele is worst offender. I have a list score table in Excel with scores for each profession, and some parameters like Elite skills. It’s amazing how bad Ele scores at this. It’s also amazing that over time (i sometimes edit scores due to skill change, and more prolonged experienced, wich makes i can give more accurate score), elite scores dropped on almost all professions.

Same with Warrior, I always carry the signet because the rest just don’t really seem to do anything. nothing to justify the cooldowns at least. The headbutt is nice, especially in pvp, but other than that. in PvE it’s extremely underwheling because you A) don’t need it /or/ it’s needed, but the creature needs multiple hits on his bar

Amaimon.7823:

Same with Warrior, I always carry the signet because the rest just don’t really seem to do anything. nothing to justify the cooldowns at least. The headbutt is nice, especially in pvp, but other than that. in PvE it’s extremely underwheling because you A) don’t need it /or/ it’s needed, but the creature needs multiple hits on his bar

It is also a stun break.

I think GW1 did a better job with the elite skills. It was superior in offering more diversity/options, and were also more usable without the huge cooldowns.
GW1 also had a much better skill bar where you could adjust the UI the way you liked it for your play style.

The game feels more like a WoW knock-off than GW to be frank and GW was better with the exception of not having an open game world and dungeons. WoW had epic dungeons.

Sounds like a lot of people have the same experience. It’s a shame they apparently can’t have nice and strong elite skills due to pvp… especially when you don’t even play that mode but are thus affected by it anyways.

Does pvp also forbid them to reduce cooldowns, though?
Which cooldown should go with what elite skill in your opinion?

—

Khisanth.2948:

Escadin.9482:

Khisanth.2948:

Mortar kit is also the only thing with a 100% projectile finisher on the autoattack. In theory that could make it interesting in combination with all the fields you get from the other skills but in practice I never found a reason to care.

Apparently, that has only an effect if you directly hit with the shell – not the area of effect.

That is the same as any other projectile finisher. It just means you need to leave some room for the projectile to fly through a field before it hits the target.

No it’s exactly not the same. Every other projectile finisher has a noticably higher projectile velocity and they’re also generally not skill shots. As I said, having to account for both of these drops the effective procc chance from 100% to something below 5% on moving targets for me.

Kudos if you can land mortar shells just as perfectly as auto targeting system can land long bow shots on specific (N)PC locations. I don’t think many people can.

Khisanth.2948:

Amaimon.7823:

Same with Warrior, I always carry the signet because the rest just don’t really seem to do anything. nothing to justify the cooldowns at least. The headbutt is nice, especially in pvp, but other than that. in PvE it’s extremely underwheling because you A) don’t need it /or/ it’s needed, but the creature needs multiple hits on his bar

It is also a stun break.

I prefer shake-it-off for the stun break.

to me most elite skills are useless because of the long cooldowns. i use to run rampage with warrior all the time as it kept me alive longer, until it went from i think it was 90 seconds to 180? that was when i would use either signet or headbutt. i’d consider using them if the cooldown was like 120 or something close to that.

From the wiki:

Elite skills are especially powerful skills designed to be used infrequently and have a dramatic effect on the tide of a battle.

The big question with the elite skills is:
If I could slot a utility instead of an elite, would I do it?
If the answer is yes then the elites need a serious rework. Unfortunately in most cases a Utility skills would be much more useful than the Elite.

Guardian: Most Guardian elite skills are powerful enough to make them worth using. They are typically more powerful than utility skills and cover a wide range of skill types, so they have enough trait support. The Signet is situational, but the other 3 are good skills.
Revenant: Overall good skills, especially Jade Wind and Facet of Chaos
Warrior: I’d say Warrior elite skills are also powerful but a bit more situational. Headbutt is amazing in Raids to break the bars, and in PVP too to set-up a burst. Warbanner is great support skill, especially if you are in a lackluster group. Rampage used to be powerful in PVP but I guess some nerfs later made it the weakest of them all. The Signet is the go-to skill if you don’t need anything else.
Engineer: Sneak Gyro is great in… Stronghold to provide stealth for the door breakers. The Mortar is part of the condition rotation (Poison Gas Shell) and that’s it. Really weak skills that don’t offer much.
Ranger: Some good ones, some bad ones. Rampage as One is good in PVP, or when you really need that Stability, Entangle is solid CC skill. The spirit is very situational. I’m not sure about Glyph of Unity, I haven’t found any use for it.
Thief: Some good ones, some bad ones. Basilisk venom for close encounters in PVP and/or breaking bars, Impact Strike to finish people in PVP team fights and some extra DPS in PVE. The other two are more situational, Thieves Guild is good when soloing some random HP champions I guess.
Elementalist: Maybe FGS is good when you want to get some place far fast. Or run away. Next
Mesmer: All of them are great, based on game mode. Time Wrap is awesome, Mass Invisibility is more situational but when you mask a big group in WvW it’s invaluable, or when skipping things in PVE, Signet of Humility and Gravity Well are excellent in PVP
Necromancer: I don’t like Necromancer elite skills. Lich Form is the only great one in PVE to summon some extra minions, the Flesh Golem has some good CC if used right. Plague Form can be useful in PVP in some cases but in general I’d rather get some utility skills instead of the elites.

Just my 2 cents.

The new elites for the Engi and Elementalists are game changers. For Engi you have the Sneak Gyro, which dramaticly changes how an engineer is played. You pop in and out of stealth while attacking, which is a big boon to the scrapper play.
As for Rebound you guys haven’t played raids have you? If you did you’d know that Rebound is game changer in some of the boss encounters there. Gorseval springs to mind where Elementalists use ‘Rebound’ and allow the squad to survive the massive aoe from Gorseval, while delaying CC, so they can phase him in place, without moving him and using updrafts. Just because some of those skills haven’t changed the way -you- play, it doesn’t mean they didn’t changed the way other people play.

Blipp.5206:

The new elites for the Engi and Elementalists are game changers. For Engi you have the Sneak Gyro, which dramaticly changes how an engineer is played. You pop in and out of stealth while attacking, which is a big boon to the scrapper play.
As for Rebound you guys haven’t played raids have you? If you did you’d know that Rebound is game changer in some of the boss encounters there. Gorseval springs to mind where Elementalists use ‘Rebound’ and allow the squad to survive the massive aoe from Gorseval, while delaying CC, so they can phase him in place, without moving him and using updrafts. Just because some of those skills haven’t changed the way -you- play, it doesn’t mean they didn’t changed the way other people play.

That’s great and all, but I think that ele complaints are justified if the only decent elite skill that they have is good in raids only.

Ganathar.4956:

Blipp.5206:

The new elites for the Engi and Elementalists are game changers. For Engi you have the Sneak Gyro, which dramaticly changes how an engineer is played. You pop in and out of stealth while attacking, which is a big boon to the scrapper play.
As for Rebound you guys haven’t played raids have you? If you did you’d know that Rebound is game changer in some of the boss encounters there. Gorseval springs to mind where Elementalists use ‘Rebound’ and allow the squad to survive the massive aoe from Gorseval, while delaying CC, so they can phase him in place, without moving him and using updrafts. Just because some of those skills haven’t changed the way -you- play, it doesn’t mean they didn’t changed the way other people play.

That’s great and all, but I think that ele complaints are justified if the only decent elite skill that they have is good in raids only.

I never said its good in raids only. I gave the raid example, because there its where it shines the most and its real game changer. Rebound is useful in many situations if used correctly and timed properly.
Not sure where that impressions comes from, that the elite specs dont feel -elite-. They accomplish their goals and surve their purpose for what was designed for. What more do people need, anyway?

Blipp.5206:

Ganathar.4956:

Blipp.5206:

The new elites for the Engi and Elementalists are game changers. For Engi you have the Sneak Gyro, which dramaticly changes how an engineer is played. You pop in and out of stealth while attacking, which is a big boon to the scrapper play.
As for Rebound you guys haven’t played raids have you? If you did you’d know that Rebound is game changer in some of the boss encounters there. Gorseval springs to mind where Elementalists use ‘Rebound’ and allow the squad to survive the massive aoe from Gorseval, while delaying CC, so they can phase him in place, without moving him and using updrafts. Just because some of those skills haven’t changed the way -you- play, it doesn’t mean they didn’t changed the way other people play.

That’s great and all, but I think that ele complaints are justified if the only decent elite skill that they have is good in raids only.

I never said its good in raids only. I gave the raid example, because there its where it shines the most and its real game changer. Rebound is useful in many situations if used correctly and timed properly.
Not sure where that impressions comes from, that the elite specs dont feel -elite-. They accomplish their goals and surve their purpose for what was designed for. What more do people need, anyway?

I don’t want to sound rude but this is not about elite specs and I think I and other people here have already shed some light on why one or the other elite skill doesn’t feel at all elite to them/us. I can go into more detail on specific ones if you want to but before that it would be great if you read what my op was about and what other people have written so far.

To sum it up, I do recognize that some of these skills are infact very powerful but many are not or only very situationally so. This gives them a certain utility, no doubt, but when judging them as mere utility skills their (often unreasonably) high cooldown makes them arguably less usefull than another actual utility skill. No trace of eliteness to speak of in those cases.

@maddoctor – I agree with what you wrote. If any class says that they would rather run an extra utility over any of their elite skills, then there is something wrong with their elite skills.

OriOri.8724:

@maddoctor – I agree with what you wrote. If any class says that they would rather run an extra utility over any of their elite skills, then there is something wrong with their elite skills.

This discussion has been going on since the kitten launch almost. We had hope that with HoT we would kittening finally at least get 1 cool elite skills for the elementalist, even if we didn’t like the kittenty tempest design.

I mean Tempest means storm, am I not kittening right? So we expected the elite to be some type of kitten aoe storm field! Instead nope… get got kittening recycled auras because they didn’t have the kittening time to fix the first failed kittenty version of the skill that was supposed to reduce the kitten cooldowns of 1 skill (but didn’t work).

Escadin.9482:

Blipp.5206:

Ganathar.4956:

Blipp.5206:

The new elites for the Engi and Elementalists are game changers. For Engi you have the Sneak Gyro, which dramaticly changes how an engineer is played. You pop in and out of stealth while attacking, which is a big boon to the scrapper play.
As for Rebound you guys haven’t played raids have you? If you did you’d know that Rebound is game changer in some of the boss encounters there. Gorseval springs to mind where Elementalists use ‘Rebound’ and allow the squad to survive the massive aoe from Gorseval, while delaying CC, so they can phase him in place, without moving him and using updrafts. Just because some of those skills haven’t changed the way -you- play, it doesn’t mean they didn’t changed the way other people play.

That’s great and all, but I think that ele complaints are justified if the only decent elite skill that they have is good in raids only.

I never said its good in raids only. I gave the raid example, because there its where it shines the most and its real game changer. Rebound is useful in many situations if used correctly and timed properly.
Not sure where that impressions comes from, that the elite specs dont feel -elite-. They accomplish their goals and surve their purpose for what was designed for. What more do people need, anyway?

I don’t want to sound rude but this is not about elite specs and I think I and other people here have already shed some light on why one or the other elite skill doesn’t feel at all elite to them/us. I can go into more detail on specific ones if you want to but before that it would be great if you read what my op was about and what other people have written so far.

To sum it up, I do recognize that some of these skills are infact very powerful but many are not or only very situationally so. This gives them a certain utility, no doubt, but when judging them as mere utility skills their (often unreasonably) high cooldown makes them arguably less usefull than another actual utility skill. No trace of eliteness to speak of in those cases.

You didn’t sound rude and yes I did read the posts and I dont agree with the majority of them. You see where I am going with that? Its matter of different opinions and how certain skills fit into the different players gameplay. The simple truth is, you cant please -everyone-. For 10 people that love the elite skills you will find, as much or if not more that find them inseficient and lacking and viceverse. I find the major part of the elite skills perfect for most situation if you can utilize them in the right moment and in the right way. So in the end it all boils down to personal opinion. If Anet -did- change them to fit more the preferance of those who find them lacking in a certain way, those who find them good at the moment, might start feeling something lacks and to want the skills reversed back to its previous state. Hence balancing and gameplay design in MMOs are very tricky thing in general, way more complicated then people sometimes realise I may add.

PS: Just now I saw I typed in the post you quoted ‘specs’, instead of skills. My bad, but in Mondays i am always tired by default. In my previous posts I meant skills.

Blipp.5206:

You didn’t sound rude and yes I did read the posts and I dont agree with the majority of them. You see where I am going with that? Its matter of different opinions and how certain skills fit into the different players gameplay. The simple truth is, you cant please -everyone-.

It occoured to me after posting it might just have been a typo…

Anyways, perhaps the issues is then that there aren’t enough elite skills to cover all available playstyles.
Okay Rebound might be a raid specific skill, fair enough, but why isn’t there a group event specific skill or one you’d want when running across a HoT map solo? Why is the most offensively usable elite skill of ranger a in my opinion boring and arguably medicore boon dispenser shout? Isn’t crate drop just a 100 second+ cooldown blast finisher, considering the state of turrets in general?

Seems to me, barring balance issues, they put in a lot of effort to produce a couple of utility and weapon skill for every liking and to go with every build they envisioned. Trying to please everyone, how come they decided to cheapskate on elite skills of all things?

The answer is simply: Elite skills – despite their definition – don’t define your build and are only loosely connected to your chosen playstyle unless you happen to have the right one out of many. It’s no mistery why they feel lacking when you often can’t make an optimal choice.

And your point is basically: I DO happen to have the right playstyle so I don’t see a problem? Okay fair enough, lucky you and all that, but the elite skills being too situational was one of my complaints. Am I really supposed to start raiding just so I can have a decent elite skill on my ele?

Escadin.9482:

Blipp.5206:

You didn’t sound rude and yes I did read the posts and I dont agree with the majority of them. You see where I am going with that? Its matter of different opinions and how certain skills fit into the different players gameplay. The simple truth is, you cant please -everyone-.

It occoured to me after posting it might just have been a typo…

Anyways, perhaps the issues is then that there aren’t enough elite skills to cover all available playstyles.
Okay Rebound might be a raid specific skill, fair enough, but why isn’t there a group event specific skill or one you’d want when running across a HoT map solo? Why is the most offensively usable elite skill of ranger a in my opinion boring and arguably medicore boon dispenser shout? Isn’t crate drop just a 100 second+ cooldown blast finisher, considering the state of turrets in general?

Seems to me, barring balance issues, they put in a lot of effort to produce a couple of utility and weapon skill for every liking and to go with every build they envisioned. Trying to please everyone, how come they decided to cheapskate on elite skills of all things?

The answer is simply: Elite skills – despite their definition – don’t define your build and are only loosely connected to your chosen playstyle unless you happen to have the right one out of many. It’s no mistery why they feel lacking when you often can’t make an optimal choice.

And your point is basically: I DO happen to have the right playstyle so I don’t see a problem? Okay fair enough, lucky you and all that, but the elite skills being too situational was one of my complaints. Am I really supposed to start raiding just so I can have a decent elite skill on my ele?

And let us not forget that there aren’t even enough elite skills to match all the skill types for a class, so the base elites might never fit some players’ play styles.