Guild Wars 2

XelNigma.6315:

OP: Complains game is too easy, plays Easy Mode class.

Until they add more hard content for you to play, maybe try out an engineer that doesn’t use grenades or bombs?

Yes, because purposely crippling yourself = challenge.

Oh wait, it doesn’t, it just makes you take longer to finish the instance.

Kichwas.7152:

zenleto.6179:

Sovta.4719:

Ashabhi.1365:

@ the OP:

Yes. The elitism you speak of is ruining the game…for you.

I am sorry that the game does not cater to the ultra-hardcore dungeon crawlers/raiders. If it did, may of us (myself included) would be looking for something else.

Yes, you ruined it for yourself.

But what about us who just want to play game, challenge? Us that socialise in real life? (that we have)

What about you? If you aren’t finding any challenges and you aren’t enjoying your time playing then you should really consider your options.

Yep.

There are games made for 17 year olds who skip school to play 16 hours a day, make spreadsheets to min/max, and rage at the screen over a 0.1% difference between X and Y.

This game is not one of those games.

This is the game for that kid above once she or he hits over 30, has a kid, a job, and plays here and there while looking for an easy way to chat with her or his mates about the events of the day.

Our spreadsheets are devoted to the quarterly statement for management, we skip work because the kid got sick and we clock in 16 hours for less wages than we should get, and we rage at the screen over the 1% taking 90% of the fruits of our labor.

We don’t care for Farmville either, we want an action MMO, and now we have one.

Not true at all. There are players out there who would fit that description, yes. but to classify all “hardcore” players in that category is completely unruly.

I am between casual and “core” and strive to see more challenging, interesting content. I have no “so called” spreadsheets for any game, I work a full time job, commute 150 miles a day, have a healthy social life, and still manage to complete content in a decent manner. I grew up around games so I am experienced with mechanics of various types, but that doesn’t make me some un-social cave dwelling guy who feasts on video games.

So bringing in someones personally life is offensive and un-supportive of this debate/thread. Everyone plays for different reasons and has different backgrounds. Leave peoples life out of the game. Thanks.

Bright.9160:

Belenwyn.8674:

Uniqueness and fungibility are excluding each other. How can something unique and reflect your excellence if everybody can buy it without the effort to complete challenging stuff? To preserve uniqueness you have to bind it to character or account.

I get the impression reward means for many people to build up oligopolic structures to control markets and to earn a lot of money by selling rewards. In last consequence you want only pile up money faster than other players. Elitisms is just another word for avarice.

He’s not saying he wants unique skins as an kitten meter to show to other players.

He’s saying that those unique skins functioned as a reward system that motivated players to do the harder content.

Why should these people need a reward to do that content, when they say that the so badly want to play content like that ? If thats the case then beating the content must be reward enough .. if not .. then all they search is a way to earn goods faster than others.

In the end thats mostly the fact .. do easy and challenging content with similiar rewards, and most people that only wanted the challenge and are sooo bored say suddenly : why should i take the hard way when i earn the same on the easy way.

Thats also why the trick with one hand tied behind your back never works .. beat the same content the hard way gives no better rewards.

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Tolmos.8395:

IndigoSundown.5419:

While I’ve seen quite a few requests for more challenge, I seldom see any of those posters offering concrete suggestions as to how to provide it. Now, there’s a challenge, work towards a solution.

My solution to cater more to the “elite”:

(A) Reduce NPC damage so that it takes 2-3 hits to kill a player instead of 1.
Increase # of Dodge times per endurance bar to 3 or even 4.
Increase NPC attack rate by 300% or more.

Instead of a slow “I hit you, you hit me” combat system where 1 hit = death and you can only dodge twice, make it a fast paced combat system.

(B) Even if bosses ran around a room. Make them go crazy, make us hunt them. Make them stealth after a certain percent of health and spawn waves of adds. Make them say things witty phrases in the middle of the fight, make Lupicus fly on a hoverboard. Make a boss that gets bloodlust stacks for each mob you kill in the dungeon so it encourages skipping. Make a dungeon that requires you to kill a secret, unspecified number of mobs in order for the last boss to spawn. Make 2 bosses that fight each other while you are stuck in the middle, choosing which one to aid for a specific reward from that boss. Make a blue boss and a pink boss that reward you with a dress when you kill them. There are so many ideas and options, but the only thing implemented in Guild Wars 2 (for the most part) was “here’s a boss that you attack and dodge.” Give me a job with Anet and I’ll design them myself.

Here are two completely different and viable approaches to adding challenge. The difference is that (A) could be more challenging to one’s reflexes and situational awareness, (B) to one’s ability to think, recognize patterns and devise strategies.

The problem with (A) is that players with marginal twitch talent and/or marginal systems would find this content too hard. I’m talking about all the people who get downed at the Dwayna event. (A) has potential longevity, or at least as much as any twitch combat games does.

The problem with (B) is that once the mechanic is learned, the success tactic is known and the intellectual part of the challenge is gone, thus reducing the content’s longevity. The plus is that anyone could engage with the challenge regardless of twitch talent.

I think a combination of things needs to happen. I think bosses need to be programmed with many more abilities. I think they need to use these abilities at random rather than just cycling through the same 2-3 routines. As long as you can predict what the boss will do, your testing your memory, not your talent/skill.

I think that general mobs need to have more than the two abilities which is common. Normal mobs don’t always use the same ability at the same time, but they do often enough, so have them use their attacks more randomly.

Then, throw in more interesting mechanics and they might have something.

Kichwas.7152:

zenleto.6179:

Sovta.4719:

Ashabhi.1365:

@ the OP:

Yes. The elitism you speak of is ruining the game...for you.

I am sorry that the game does not cater to the ultra-hardcore dungeon crawlers/raiders. If it did, may of us (myself included) would be looking for something else.

Yes, you ruined it for yourself.

But what about us who just want to play game, challenge? Us that socialise in real life? (that we have)

What about you? If you aren’t finding any challenges and you aren’t enjoying your time playing then you should really consider your options.

Yep.

There are games made for 17 year olds who skip school to play 16 hours a day, make spreadsheets to min/max, and rage at the screen over a 0.1% difference between X and Y.

This game is not one of those games.

This is the game for that kid above once she or he hits over 30, has a kid, a job, and plays here and there while looking for an easy way to chat with her or his mates about the events of the day.

Our spreadsheets are devoted to the quarterly statement for management, we skip work because the kid got sick and we clock in 16 hours for less wages than we should get, and we rage at the screen over the 1% taking 90% of the fruits of our labor.

We don’t care for Farmville either, we want an action MMO, and now we have one.

This game is made for all. What hardcore players are asking for is more difficult (not longer) contet with comparable rewards and the ability to filter between normal/hardmodes. As someone with an engineering degree, mid-20’s, with a social life and a great career in a senior position at a fortune 500 company - I can tell you your argument is weak. This game is meant to be pick up and play but it still should offer a challenge. Even if we didn’t min/max and just rolled through stuff with knights/soldiers/any class balance, it would still be face roll-easy. Guild puzzles is the first real use I’ve seen of Anet pve mechanics that were both engaging and fun, it’s just too bad it’s open world-Zerg related. Again, this content we’re asking for would be filter-able in difficulty and only offer cosmetic rewards (ie you could still login/off as much as you’d like to take care of those diapers as you see fit)

it sure does look fun that so called “elite” doesn’t even bother to read

p.s.: i’ve marked out the name.. don’t want to expose anyone..

Not sure what you’re referring to Maiden (haven’t read all the posts), but you do know anyone can just put a name on GW2LFG, right?

If you don’t want a game to be about being a good player, well maybe you’re not a gamer. If you want a game to be about time consuming, story or socialising then you should read a book, watch a movie or go out with REAL LIFE friends. Games are all about being good in the game. Imagine if soccer wasn’t about winning the game.. How boring would that be? Any game ever made is about winning or being better. Unless you’re looking at those pedo-games like second life.

Puru.4217:

I’m still puzzled at how a game with so much potential, especially in term of mobility during fights, manage to realize the most boring encounters conceivable.

Pretty much every boss in this game are hp sacks that attacks once every light years, be it one powerfull melee attacks, one or several giant circle that you can either dodge in melee range or completly negate using mesmer + guardian if those are ranged attacks (or even melee actually using aegis, almost exclusive to guardian of course, nobody could figure out it would backfire, just as projectile reflection). They also don’t move at all, they stay rooted, eating everything you throw at them.

Here’s some ideas, why don’t those mobs actually sometimes attacks with fast but less powerfull attacks so staying in place would result in your group to actually move unless they want that attack to destroy all the blocks or dodge you have at your disposal. Why don’t they sidestep when a warrior use hundred blade instead of letting themselves get killed. Why don’t they cast more chills/cripple/immobilize/stun/knockbacks and kite around so staying in melee isn’t always the best option or simply to throw the players out of melee range so the boss doesn’t get destroyed in 3s. Why don’t they have some bullet hell phase (it could be them rushing in the room randomly, throwing tons of unreflectable projectiles or whatever) requiring to move quickly in safe spot until they calm down. Why is there almost no secondary mechanic in order to weaken them, make them vulnerable, lower their damage or whatever (stuff like the dredge fractal boss), those would generally require to move in order to complete them, would add some spice and require some team coordination. Why don’t they actually have multiple phase or simply get a few new moves depending on their hp bars (like lupicus does actually) instead of 2-3 moves.
I’m not going to talk about defiance and unshakable or how underwater combat could be a huge part of the game if taken care off, that should be threads on their own.

So much wasted potential.

This pretty much sums up my view of GW2 PvE. It is, by far, the most lackluster PvE I have ever encountered. If is weren’t for WvW I would have uninstalled the game months ago.

Not sure if I am a “Casual” GW2 player. I love being able to take breaks whenever and not worry about it draining my bank. I also dont get all stat heavy, or give my life fully to WvW. But I play WvW often and care how well we do, I try everything, or intend to, and when I do play, play for hours on end. I think people need to know how far is too far really, and remember it is a game. I am a hardcore gamer by far, but I do not play every game as a hardcore gamer. (Like pokemon…..yikes)

Bright.9160:

Beldin.5498:

Bright.9160:

Not to mention that there’s absolutely nothing wrong for a gaming company to cater both to hardcores and casuals. In fact, it would be a lot of a better business plan than what they have now. Having both markets play your game is better than only having one of them…

Thats the big question. Is it really better when 50% of your developer ressources are spent for maybe 5% of the playerbase .. and 50% for the other 95% .. or are these 95% kitten ed of maybe after a while because it would be so much better if they get 100% and also a chance to get some nice shinies that normally only these 5% have.

Well, when WoW started catering to the casuals, they started losing players. And by losing players, I don’t mean ‘lol, 5% left, cry babies’, no, their sales went down all across the board. So, actually, yes.

I left about a month into WotLK. Once raids were so watered down they were consistantly puggable it was time to move on. It actually started in TBC, when they started nerfing all the T4 and T5 content and removed all the entry requirements (and gave us lame titles instead…“Hand of A’dal” lol).

While i agree the game is more casual then anything you’ll ever find when it comes to gear…..

AND that they still have yet to recognize that we need rewards to continue playing post level 80 preferably ones that can be obtained solo as well as in groups…

This game is far from a casuals dream.

There’s a ton of stuff wrong with the game not to mention tons of activities missing. It’s like some kind of weird limbo. They want you to play just for the scenery and a couple of npc’s talking to one another.

What they could be doing to the game to include both casuals and the hard core is just not happening.

The casuals side they could be adding all kinds of activities to the game with great in game rewards that everyone likes like non RNG rewards for crafting or non-store bought items as rewards.

On the hardcore side they could be adding a difficulty level meter so that all of the content of the game could be on multiple difficulty levels. That way casuals would never be cut off by gated content like they suggested they would do in future patches with the coming of ascended gear and agony resist, AND at the same time balance the harder content to make it more challenging to the players who like to go the elitist route.

If they spent more time doing that instead of worrying about people actually getting loot from events they’d have the best game ever, right now however, it’s very broken stagnant and it’s not offering much to anyone except those who are leveling.

Beldin.5498:

Mejo.3198:

And waypoints everywhere which doesn’t require you to plan your route or anything and kind of takes away the adventurous feeling.

You can’t use a Waypoint that you haven’t discovered yet, so you will indeed have to walk there at least once. Also nobody forces you to use them .. if you want to run an hour from LA to Orr each time .. more power to you

Yeah, but if everyone else are doing it, so will you in the long run. It’s not the same being forced to run as in run if you “feel like it”.

It’s just stupid with the whole waypoint system. It would be better if you had to go to one waypoint to teleport to another one, but since you can teleport from everywhere you are instantly blipping around here and there.

And there are way too many of them aswell!
Maybe this is a stupid idea, but couldn’t they just limited teleportion BETWEEN DIFFERENT MAPS/AREAS to something referred to as MAIN WAYPOINTS?
Then, once you have gotten to one area, you can teleport btw the small waypoints in the same area, BUT only BETWEEN THEM and not from everywhere around.
Then take away some of the gazillion waypoints in the game and you might actually have more of a challenge.

Less waypoint means more planning and not being able to rely on a waypoint if you “die”…

and challenge is a good thing in a game!

IndigoSundown.5419:

While I’ve seen quite a few requests for more challenge, I seldom see any of those posters offering concrete suggestions as to how to provide it. Now, there’s a challenge, work towards a solution.

For starters they could have:

¤ Harder normal mobs and enemies in general, which require some kind of strategy to attack.
¤As I wrote above, less waypoints which requires you to THINK before rushing into a battle since you might have to run a long way back if you die.

IndigoSundown.5419:

I think a combination of things needs to happen. I think bosses need to be programmed with many more abilities. I think they need to use these abilities at random rather than just cycling through the same 2-3 routines. As long as you can predict what the boss will do, your testing your memory, not your talent/skill.

I think that general mobs need to have more than the two abilities which is common. Normal mobs don’t always use the same ability at the same time, but they do often enough, so have them use their attacks more randomly.

Then, throw in more interesting mechanics and they might have something.

Good points

Could never enjoy reading this forum. OP isn’t a jerk or idiot, but gets trolled like crazy because someone disagrees with him.

inb4 moderator

He wants more challenging content, so apparently he’s “ruining the game for everyone else” or “you’re just an arrogant jerk who wants to gloat and make me feel bad about you being better” etc.

Apparently casual = hates challenges. I thought all gamers like challenges except hardcore players were just more serious about completing those challenges and/or had more time on their hands to master the game.

Broadicea.8294:

Saw thread title, said “AW HELL NO” and rolled up my sleeves. Then I saw the thread poster and knew what it would be saying.

Yup, 100% correct. The game offers no reward for being good at it. The only thing keeping me in is that I have nothing better to play and I’m keeping myself entertained with projects to help other players be good at the game.

It’s not a coincidence that you’re posting in this thread and your signature lists your three characters that mimic the cookie cutter trinity.

There is plenty of stuff in this game which isn’t casual, just almost none of it favours skill or difficult content (the only thing I can think of is Fractal weapons and Arah dungeon items) and all of it favours either time gated logging in (almost everything in the game is obtained by simply logging in every day or during an event and fulfilling a trivial requirement) or grinding an excessively large amount (or buying gems and then buying gold to obtain items). The non-casual content in the game is not hardcore because of the challenge to obtain it, it’s hardcore because of the grind to obtain it. There’s plenty of it (legendaries, Infinite Light, Molten Jet Pack etc) but it all favours grind and excessive amounts of play time, the more efficient (and less challenging) the better.

The game is designed almost entirely to either cater to casual acquisition through gated mechanics (laurels, guild commendations, pristine relics etc) or limited time but easy to acquire rewards (the molten gauntlets, the fervid censer, the sclerite karka shell). Guild Wars 2 is a casual heavy game with intense grind as its primary focuses. Actual gameplay is incidental.

Alarox.4590:

Could never enjoy reading this forum. OP isn’t a jerk or idiot, but gets trolled like crazy because someone disagrees with him.

inb4 moderator

He wants more challenging content, so apparently he’s “ruining the game for everyone else” or “you’re just an arrogant jerk who wants to gloat and make me feel bad about you being better” etc.

Apparently casual = hates challenges. I thought all gamers like challenges except hardcore players were just more serious about completing those challenges and/or had more time on their hands to master the game.

I’m “casual” and like challenges. My twitch reflexes departed back in the 80’s, and I was never particularly talented in that regard. So, GW2 does offer more challenge to me than it probably does to some. I’d be willing to bet there are a lot of players like me.

Unfortunately, issues of challenge in MMO’s always devolve down to rewards. MMO’s have conditioned people to expect “stuff” for playing the game, to the point where they will complete content that bores them silly to get the reward. Conversely, those players will ignore content they might find to be fun if the return-on-time spent does not measure up. Once “harder content must come with exclusive rewards” becomes a given, you’ve split the player-base and generated bitter recriminations from both sides.

Now, I’m among the few who are not displeased by the rewards in GW2 — except maybe in story mode dungeons. I play content because I find it fun, so rewards I will never get — as long as it’s not fun-breaking stat increases like Tier 6 PvP gear in Rift was — don’t bother me. I’d be willing to bet I’m in the minority there as well.

So, no. I don’t think casuals hate challenge, I think they hate the idea of not getting the rewards. And no, that does not mean “getting them for free” to them, it means getting rewards for engaging with content they find doable and fun.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Alarox.4590:

Could never enjoy reading this forum. OP isn’t a jerk or idiot, but gets trolled like crazy because someone disagrees with him.

inb4 moderator

He wants more challenging content, so apparently he’s “ruining the game for everyone else” or “you’re just an arrogant jerk who wants to gloat and make me feel bad about you being better” etc.

Apparently casual = hates challenges. I thought all gamers like challenges except hardcore players were just more serious about completing those challenges and/or had more time on their hands to master the game.

I’m “casual” and like challenges. My twitch reflexes departed back in the 80’s, and I was never particularly talented in that regard. So, GW2 does offer more challenge to me than it probably does to some. I’d be willing to bet there are a lot of players like me.

Unfortunately, issues of challenge in MMO’s always devolve down to rewards. MMO’s have conditioned people to expect “stuff” for playing the game, to the point where they will complete content that bores them silly to get the reward. Conversely, those players will ignore content they might find to be fun if the return-on-time spent does not measure up. Once “harder content must come with exclusive rewards” becomes a given, you’ve split the player-base and generated bitter recriminations from both sides.

Now, I’m among the few who are not displeased by the rewards in GW2 — except maybe in story mode dungeons. I play content because I find it fun, so rewards I will never get — as long as it’s not fun-breaking stat increases like Tier 6 PvP gear in Rift was — don’t bother me. I’d be willing to bet I’m in the minority there as well.

So, no. I don’t think casuals hate challenge, I think they hate the idea of not getting the rewards. And no, that does not mean “getting them for free” to them, it means getting rewards for engaging with content they find doable and fun.

This is video game, if some so called “casual” can get the dodge timing after playing 5h+ a day i don’t care about his reward, if i’m better (and i am) i want my reward. At least harder content cause camping world bosses or doing cof for some leg…..lol skin is booooooooooring.

I’ve only read the first post but I agree. When I come here and see a lot of the complaining I find myself thinking I’m glad I’m a casual player because it makes a lot of things that “ruin” this game for other people totally irrelevant.

When I hit 80 I carried on with the massive list of things I wanted to do before, instead of feeling like it was all pointless now and there was nothing for me to do without clearly designated ‘end game’ content.

When I did my first dungeon (Arah path 2) it took me about 3 hours and we wiped a few times, but I had fun doing it and look forward to doing the others. And doing Arah again 5 or 6 times to get the tokens I’ll need now I’ve decided to go for the bow skin (and maybe even more because I like the armor too).

Oh, that too. I set myself long term goals, sometimes very long term (I’ve just about chosen the first 3 legendaries I want to get, for example) and I’m not bothered at all that they’re going to take me a very long time to get. I don’t feel any pressure to burn myself out grinding for them ASAP, I just play and I’ll get there eventually. (That might be more my personality than something common to casual players though. I’m very much a typical Taurus – very stubborn but never in a hurry.)

I like a challenge, but I can enjoy the game for the lore and story and a chance to muck around with friends from thousands of miles away I don’t get to see in real life too.

Guild Was 2 is the same thing every level. I realized that at level 40-50. I stopped playing around 60.

When I returned I got to 80 then farmed gold. When gold farming was nerfed twice in a week I quit for good.

Because of the extremely flat level of difficulty the game offers there’s nothing to aspire for. The draw for players who want to achieve need difficult content — and great rewards. That’s right, some players may never see it. But there are those who really want it. Until that’s offered I see no reason to return.

OP you will never have what you want. It doesn’t matter how much PvE content is available or how fast they add it, you’ll just run through it eventually- everyone knows this and has been there, done that. It doesn’t matter how much you stroke your e`peen about speed or w/e, we’ve all run a lot of PvE in this game or other games and it always becomes boring. Anybody can be good at playing a computer, even bots can run “difficult content”(like UW in GW1)…

You said PvP wasn’t your thing but it IS the game…so for you and PvEers like you I say this: You can call yourself elite and build your ego all you want but it sounds like you’re afraid of it getting smashed by another player in WvW.

Would you prefer a game of chess?

well, I admire your dedication to gaming, but glad to see you go….every extreme hardcore that leaves makes this a better game..eventually maybe the devs can actually slow down a little and do a little polishing.

These games cost so much to develope that it is impossible to make money catering to people that will consume 3 months of work in a day. If they cater to you they lose the other 95% because they will not have the time or dedication to survive…and why play if the game just makes you feel bad about yourself?

Can I have some of your stuff? (Sounds like there’s no way I’d need all of it)

Sovta.4719:

This is video game, if some so called “casual” can get the dodge timing after playing 5h+ a day i don’t care about his reward, if i’m better (and i am) i want my reward. At least harder content cause camping world bosses or doing cof for some leg…..lol skin is booooooooooring.

Your simply sooo much too good for this game .. and we also haven’t earned the honour of your godly presence here .. so time for you to seek a better places. Even if we are all really sad to see you go.

data.4093:

OP you will never have what you want. It doesn’t matter how much PvE content is available or how fast they add it, you’ll just run through it eventually- everyone knows this and has been there, done that. It doesn’t matter how much you stroke your e`peen about speed or w/e, we’ve all run a lot of PvE in this game or other games and it always becomes boring. Anybody can be good at playing a computer, even bots can run “difficult content”(like UW in GW1)…

You said PvP wasn’t your thing but it IS the game…so for you and PvEers like you I say this: You can call yourself elite and build your ego all you want but it sounds like you’re afraid of it getting smashed by another player in WvW.

I’ve gotten smashed in WvW quite a bit. I’ve been the smasher as well, and this is the case with all PvP. It’s not some glorious superior content, there are plenty of terrible players on both sides, and that’s the main reason I avoid it and the main reason I stopped playing games like LoL. People that hold PvP in such a high regard don’t actually experience PvP, they experience daydreams that they substitute for actual PvP experiences. I simply don’t enjoy PvP, and I’ve made that clear, yet somehow this results in me being bad at it. u wanna 1v1 me in black ops on xbox live? ill beat u.

Anwar.2018:

well, I admire your dedication to gaming, but glad to see you go….every extreme hardcore that leaves makes this a better game..eventually maybe the devs can actually slow down a little and do a little polishing.

These games cost so much to develope that it is impossible to make money catering to people that will consume 3 months of work in a day. If they cater to you they lose the other 95% because they will not have the time or dedication to survive…and why play if the game just makes you feel bad about yourself?

Can I have some of your stuff? (Sounds like there’s no way I’d need all of it)

You can have all of my stuff, especially my critical thinking skills. Put them to good use.

Anwar.2018:

These games cost so much to develope that it is impossible to make money catering to people that will consume 3 months of work in a day. If they cater to you they lose the other 95% because they will not have the time or dedication to survive…and why play if the game just makes you feel bad about yourself?

Weird. I I don’t remember hitting fotm 80 in a single day. I assure that if you look at the work put in versus play time out, fotm was an overwhelming success and continues to be.

and that was one of their first updates. It’s quite clear they could have continued developing “end game” content like that faster than we could consume it… if that was what they wanted to do. It’s clear from the past 6 months of updates that 80% of the content put out is pinata based holiday type carebear events. 10% WvW (which was super needed) and 10% Spvp (which seems to be moving in the right direction.) The only thing that they are really neglecting is the type of player who enjoys dungeon/fotm type content, but wants more.

Do you folks realize that if they’d throw us a single new permanent dungeon on par with the other 8 in the first 12 months of the game how happy the more “hardcore” crowd would be? But no, we get Molten Facility, an interesting albeit cakewalk dungeon that only has one path and was temporary. We get Canach’s Lair, which can only be called a dungeon if you’re having a laugh. And even then…temporary.

I’d be ecstatic with a new dungeon that I can throw in the rotation with all the others. Or even just new fractals, which you think would be a no brainer every couple months, considering how small and simple they should be. Or hell, even just fixing the dungeons and fractals that are already in the kitten game.

But we don’t get that. We get Quaggan backpacks. And dragon fireworks. And How To Dance, Volume 1.

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

As the title says, being an elitist has completely destroyed this game for me. My inner elitist drove me to learn strategies for each dungeon and boss, execute them flawlessly, become the self-declared best Guardian in Guild Wars 2, and create top-of-the-food chain-guides for Warrior and Ranger. After accomplishing feats like killing Lupicus in 46 seconds with my super group of guildies and clearing Arah path 4 in 30 minutes, I’ve realized something that really took me all too long: Guild Wars 2 is a casual’s game, and that isn’t going to change.

The last few patches have brought nothing but temporary content that has taken me no longer than a few hours to complete at most, and very little changes to dungeons, if any at all. Fractals are in a state of chaos and the only people that have motivation to do them are people that enjoy harming themselves or people caught in an infinite loop of grinding for a weapon skin that will most likely never drop for them. I cannot keep myself entertained with a game that offers no new challenge, and the little challenges that did exist were destroyed after discovering the trinity of Warrior, Guardian, and Mesmer. I can understand that someone with no desire to master dungeon content or someone that only wants to log on and do dailies would have trouble with this game, but Guild Wars 2 simply offers nothing for the hardcore player, and I don’t think that I’m alone in thinking this.

People that play casually don’t really bother me, they can do what they want and that’s fine. If the idea of Guild Wars 2 is to produce temporary content for someone to log on and see once a month and buy some minis from the gem store, then I don’t have a problem with that either; I just don’t feel I can be a part of it any longer. I’m quite disappointed, because I had fun playing this game for several months, whether it was hunting for Final Rest when it was hiding with Shadow Behemoth all along, or practicing Lupicus alone for hours so I could master his mechanics and teach them to other people. I’m not posting this thread to trash Anet or to make drama and cause people to quit the game, I’m posting it so people can read my thoughts on Guild Wars 2 and discuss them in hopes that maybe some day there will be some content that challenges hardcore players.

In closing, perhaps taking a casual approach to Guild Wars 2 is the best way to go about playing this game, but being an elitist and mastering the PvE content the game offers eradicated any sort of drive to continue playing a game that doesn’t seem to be targeted towards someone like me

Then break out of the “trinity” you mention, try a “sub optimal” class or build. Take satisfaction that you can beat FotM with a supposedly sub par spec.

Or realise that any pve scripted encounter, be it Raids in WoW, open world events in Rift, or Fractals in GW2 is inherrently easy in execution for an experienced gamer. YOu can only move out of stuff in some many ways before its all the same….in games liek wow or Rift or Swtor, the “challenge” is only there because of teired gearing, its not actually harder each time, its just you lack the necessary stats to do it at first.

Thats why most MMO players graduate to PvP as its the only way to really have new encounters. Or just leave.

Cameirus.8407:

Then break out of the “trinity” you mention, try a “sub optimal” class or build. Take satisfaction that you can beat FotM with a supposedly sub par spec.

Or realise that any pve scripted encounter, be it Raids in WoW, open world events in Rift, or Fractals in GW2 is inherrently easy in execution for an experienced gamer. YOu can only move out of stuff in some many ways before its all the same….in games liek wow or Rift or Swtor, the “challenge” is only there because of teired gearing, its not actually harder each time, its just you lack the necessary stats to do it at first.

Thats why most MMO players graduate to PvP as its the only way to really have new encounters. Or just leave.

I’ll go ahead and state my opinion on PvP again, since it doesn’t look like you read any further into the thread aside from the first post.

I don’t enjoy PvP. I’ve seen plenty of people playing in some form of PvP throughout my time as a gamer that would have done much better if they let basic AI play for them. Even people matched up at my “skill level” by the games ranking system.

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Cameirus.8407:

Then break out of the “trinity” you mention, try a “sub optimal” class or build. Take satisfaction that you can beat FotM with a supposedly sub par spec.

Or realise that any pve scripted encounter, be it Raids in WoW, open world events in Rift, or Fractals in GW2 is inherrently easy in execution for an experienced gamer. YOu can only move out of stuff in some many ways before its all the same….in games liek wow or Rift or Swtor, the “challenge” is only there because of teired gearing, its not actually harder each time, its just you lack the necessary stats to do it at first.

Thats why most MMO players graduate to PvP as its the only way to really have new encounters. Or just leave.

I’ll go ahead and state my opinion on PvP again, since it doesn’t look like you read any further into the thread aside from the first post.

I don’t enjoy PvP. I’ve seen plenty of people playing in some form of PvP throughout my time as a gamer that would have done much better if they let basic AI play for them. Even people matched up at my “skill level” by the games ranking system.

I read it, and my point stands.
Its irrelevant if you like pvp or not. The simple fact is that pve content will always be easy to gamers have been doing it for a while.

If you’ve been playing MMOs for a while, you will know the basic boss mechanics that can be used, and you’ll only ever see variations on a theme, so you’ll find it easy, And you have how many hours logged? how much experience? that makes new stuff pretty easy for you to pick up. But they cant design it for you…they have to assume that people who have not been aroudn for long will want to have a reasonable chance at sucess as due to churn MMOs need to get new players in constantly.

The only 2 ways you’ll get the content you want (ie, harder and constantly changing), is either in PvP (and yes plenty of players there are not good), or in player generated content which GW2 does not support.

Broadicea.8294:

Vayne.8563:

I agree with the OP. For players like him, there’s not enough challenging content. As a result of that, he should go find a game with more challenging content. Guild Wars 2 has no sub and if something really challenging comes out, he can come back, finish it in 5.2 minutes, and be on his merry way again.

Some people CRAVE challenge in a game. Some people have enough challenge in life and crave different things in games. Watching this game develop, I was sure it was targeted at a more casual audience, and that’s fine by me.

I do hope, OP, that you find a game that’s more challenging to you. My son, however, played Neverwinter for a couple of weeks and he’s already done with it. And he plays much like you do.

I think for me, it’s not so much the lack of new (or any?) challenges in this game, it’s that there’s no reward matching the challenges that already exist. I can’t even be bothered to do the practice and work necessary to get up to fractal 48, because the reward is so low compared to just logging in and completing whatever boring achievements are in new in the temporary content, then walking around and doing daily bosses. As far as dungeons I’m still working on getting to what I feel is a “master” level on all paths, but the only reward for reaching that level of competency and skill is a self-generated one. The PvE game simply doesn’t reward you for being good.

Why care about rewards?

Are you having fun? if yes, who cares about the reward.
If no, then leave as why play a game you dont find fun.

If you only run content if it rewards you, then you are not really enjoying it. So why bother at all?

The problem, is that I can think the reward it fine, but you think it too low. Its a subjective thing and Anet will never keep everyone happy. The only metric that matters is your own, and as you have said you cant work at attaining a level you consider acceptable.

Also, no company will design content for the 1%(or the self appointed 1% who are vocal onforums). its not good business sense. Its not a proportional allocation of resources. they can afford to lose you. They cant afford to lose the 99% who dont care about hardcore content.

IF we get hardcore content the casuals will cry that they want to see it without actually working for it. (LFR in WoW)

I wish us hardcore folk could get some content and just be left alone but it’s not so easy.

Can’t believe they don’t even have the decency to give us hard mode dungeons, at least that would give us something to do other than grind 24/7.

Remember that thing we used to do in MMOs, pve progression? ANet seems to think that all we need is gear grind which was never really the reason people raided anyway.

I miss doing difficult content with my guild, too bad they all quit GW2 when game became stale repeating the same mistakes, GG devs ignore your community more that will get you places for sure…

I see the same complaints covering the front pages for months and what does ANet do? Ignore, add more RNG boxes in the gem store and temporary content that is quite easily completed in 1-2 hours at most.

It’s even more casual than casual if that made any sense. An MMO with like, zero content for a year. That only ever happened between expansions in WoW.. but it’s the norm here in GW2.

Stahp adding stuff that can be completed in a few minutes and let us set some goals instead of GRINDGRINDGRIND which you ANet folk love so much.

Beldin.5498:

Why should these people need a reward to do that content, when they say that the so badly want to play content like that ? If thats the case then beating the content must be reward enough .. if not .. then all they search is a way to earn goods faster than others.

In the end thats mostly the fact .. do easy and challenging content with similiar rewards, and most people that only wanted the challenge and are sooo bored say suddenly : why should i take the hard way when i earn the same on the easy way.

Thats also why the trick with one hand tied behind your back never works .. beat the same content the hard way gives no better rewards.

Actually, doing the Deep or Urgoz was hardly ‘rewarding’ by 2010. I still did it occasionally, because it was FUN. I think you made about 2k gold in about 10 minutes. Whereas I could make 70k gold in 30 minutes doing DoA. People did UW for like 20k/30minutes. Or people did SoOSC for about 3k/10 minutes, with a very little chance of a really expensive drop. People also did FoWSC for like 10k/15 minutes.

I have to admit, I mostly did DoA, but that’s because that was -to me- the most fun area of them all. Other people preferred UW, others preferred FoW, etc. But everyone had their favorite endgame, one more rewarding than the other.

You want to know what, I’ve never seen any “Risk v Reward in GW1 sucks!” threads, want to know why? It took time, dedication and experienced people to be able to clear DoA in 30-35 minutes. Whereas it took less experienced people to do UW, and FoW was even easier. And the times I listed were the times I was used to, they were hardly the times PUGs got. PUGs got 25min FoW runs, and 40min UW runs, and they never complained that the pro’s made more money than them.

GW1 endgame was both fun, challenging, and accordingly rewarding. GW2 endgame is not any of those things.

Cameirus.8407:

Are you having fun? if yes, who cares about the reward.
If no, then leave as why play a game you dont find fun.

If you only run content if it rewards you, then you are not really enjoying it. So why bother at all?

Why oh why is this “argument” coming up in every topic I seem to read?
Let me get this one straight. Just because people complain, doesn’t mean they don’t have fun. It actually means that they care. They express criticism and point out flaws. These flaws might just be true for a small part of the community, but that doesn’t make their opinion wrong, and neither does the flaw cease to exist.
I too love this game. I love the lore and the world and the books. But it has flaws. Be it the non-existent difficulty, the RNG issues or the grind required to obtain certain items (yes legendaries, I am looking at you).

People enjoy different parts about games. Most like to win. A lot like to try and get better and improve. Lots of people play to relax. Others are achievement hunters. And then there are those who like to be rewarded for completing difficult content, or content at all. The latter are probably those that like to win and / or improve, since winning in a PvE environment isn’t really… possible.

So if certain aspects are missing in the game, the affected part of the community will raise their voices in concern, pointing out a possible flaw, which might lead to improvements. That’s a good thing. And it should by no means be answered with “just quit if you don’t like it”. That’s ignorance.

I feel a bit sorry for you, that it took you this long to find out. The game has always been primarily for the casual crowd. Casual players are easier to make content for, they ask less questions, they complain less, they’ll gladly spend money on pointless things like quaggan backpacks, and they will keep coming back for more, long after they’ve lost interest in the game. Making a game primarily for hardcore players, is just stupid, from a business point of view. It’s a lot of work for very little gain. ArenaNet are kinda learning that the hard way, with sPvP. Hardcore players know what they want, and if they don’t get it, they will simply just stop playing.

Sounds more egomaniacal than “elitist”, but I do agree for the most part.

Try playing some GW1 if you haven’t before. It is pretty active and a lot more fun/challenging.

Ashabhi.1365:

@ the OP:

Yes. The elitism you speak of is ruining the game…for you.

The rest of us are socializing, trying new things, and actually enjoying what content they have. We are exploring, and doing world completion at a snail’s pace..and loving it!

I am sorry that the game does not cater to the ultra-hardcore dungeon crawlers/raiders. If it did, may of us (myself included) would be looking for something else.

So, in answer to your orignal post:

Yes, you ruined it for yourself.

I’m sorry, but I don’t log in to an MMO to socialize. That’s what the real life world outside is for. Sure, I have a guild full of people that I really enjoy playing with, but it’s a video game after all. If the content that’s there (or isn’t there, lol living story) isn’t triggering any sort of drive for me, I’m not going to play it.

Trying new things, you say? Like what? I’m sure I’ve done most everything with four lv80s and multiple alts. I’ve even got a legendary to show my dedication to this game. Don’t get me wrong, I love the game, but they’re treading so closely to that casual-fun-time line that I’m legitimately worried. I realize that this issue is a battle between two different preferences, but hey, not everyone is going to play the game like a snail and not everyone is going to play the game like a locust. I played through the content too quickly, you say? Says who? You and your arbitrary judgment? Should I be judging you for not playing fast enough, then? Who’s to say one style is wrong and the other right?

I’m not a locust, really. I’ve been waiting for this game ever since I read about it in that 2007 issue of PC Gamer. I’ll stick with GW2 till the bitter end. This doesn’t mean that I’m not going to critique it and its designers when I see something that isn’t appealing to me, though. I may not be the carebear demographic that ArenaNet is aiming for nowadays, but I’m still going to voice my opinion on the matter regardless of what the majority says.

TL;DR: Let me summarize by editing your original message for my own argument.

I am sorry that the game isn’t catering to both sides of the casual/hardcore spectrum. If it did, many of the hardcore players (myself included) would be much happier. Neither style is the correct/incorrect way of playing the game, but catering to just one side really sucks.

And no, I will not be looking for another game since this one doesn’t suit every single one of my preferences. I’m going to voice my opinion and hope that ArenaNet delivers something as difficult as the Domain of Anguish. It’ll be lovely – all those people complaining that it’s too hard.

Broadicea.8294:

Do you folks realize that if they’d throw us a single new permanent dungeon on par with the other 8 in the first 12 months of the game how happy the more “hardcore” crowd would be? But no, we get Molten Facility, an interesting albeit cakewalk dungeon that only has one path and was temporary. We get Canach’s Lair, which can only be called a dungeon if you’re having a laugh. And even then…temporary.

I’d be ecstatic with a new dungeon that I can throw in the rotation with all the others. Or even just new fractals, which you think would be a no brainer every couple months, considering how small and simple they should be. Or hell, even just fixing the dungeons and fractals that are already in the kitten game.

But we don’t get that. We get Quaggan backpacks. And dragon fireworks. And How To Dance, Volume 1.

While I don’t always agree with this poster, this request/expectation seems entirely reasonable to me. One could argue that guild missions fill that void, but they aren’t going to for a lot of players — whether that be due to lack of difficulty, or short time commitment.

While people seem to flock to the Southsun living story events, I wonder if this would be the case without the MF buff. We’re always going to get new stuff to spend money on, that’s the nature of the beast, but in addition to that it would be nice if there were permanent additions in the form of content that catered to different tastes, whether that be fractals, a new dungeon every few months, and new events.

Phaedryn.3698:

Bright.9160:

Beldin.5498:

Bright.9160:

Not to mention that there’s absolutely nothing wrong for a gaming company to cater both to hardcores and casuals. In fact, it would be a lot of a better business plan than what they have now. Having both markets play your game is better than only having one of them…

Thats the big question. Is it really better when 50% of your developer ressources are spent for maybe 5% of the playerbase .. and 50% for the other 95% .. or are these 95% kitten ed of maybe after a while because it would be so much better if they get 100% and also a chance to get some nice shinies that normally only these 5% have.

Well, when WoW started catering to the casuals, they started losing players. And by losing players, I don’t mean ‘lol, 5% left, cry babies’, no, their sales went down all across the board. So, actually, yes.

I left about a month into WotLK. Once raids were so watered down they were consistantly puggable it was time to move on. It actually started in TBC, when they started nerfing all the T4 and T5 content and removed all the entry requirements (and gave us lame titles instead…“Hand of A’dal” lol).

Naxx was easy as it was the entry raid but regardless the downfall was at TOC , as ulduar as far as I know is considered the best raid ever made in wow and in my book was.

You got to know that any of your post kind of amuse me. Please don’t quit the game so fast (or keep posting some fun on the forum).

And just a word about me agreeing on that : I Lost all hope about content updates and where Anet wants GW2 to move toward.

Playing a game against a machine is always rather a puzzle than a game. Once you figure out how you can beat the machine, it becomes easy. Thus, videos games that let you play solely against AI will become easy after a while, unless it requires reaction times that cannot humanly be achieved. Take the most casual player and train him to beat any existing video game and he will succeed sooner or later. That’s just human psychology.
Demanding more challenges becomes therefore a moot point when you’re part of a minority that feels not challenged, because such a minority will always exist. That doesn’t mean I don’t sympathize with the OP, but one must realize that he’s part of a minority and ArenaNet has no reason to invest any resources until this minority becomes large enough. What is also important to realize is that GW2 was never meant to be the sole pastime activity anyone should have. In fact GW2 was meant, unlike P2P models to be a game you play when you feel like it and put aside when not.

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

I’ve gotten smashed in WvW quite a bit. I’ve been the smasher as well, and this is the case with all PvP. It’s not some glorious superior content, there are plenty of terrible players on both sides, and that’s the main reason I avoid it and the main reason I stopped playing games like LoL. People that hold PvP in such a high regard don’t actually experience PvP, they experience daydreams that they substitute for actual PvP experiences. I simply don’t enjoy PvP, and I’ve made that clear, yet somehow this results in me being bad at it. u wanna 1v1 me in black ops on xbox live? ill beat u.

At first I was like “huh?” then I was like “you trolling bro?”.

timecookie.8570:

You got to know that any of your post kind of amuse me. Please don’t quit the game so fast (or keep posting some fun on the forum).

And just a word about me agreeing on that : I Lost all hope about content updates and where Anet wants GW2 to move toward.

I’ll probably continue to read and post on the forums, I like discussion and I’m glad that this thread has spawned so much of it. As far as the game itself goes, the only thing I can imagine that I would do would be to stand in LA and talk in map chat. That’s all I really did for the last 500 or so hours I actually played the game, aside from doing a few mindless Arah runs in the evening or trying to kill Lupicus faster.

One other thing I wanted to clarify that I don’t think some people caught on to: the last part of the OP was to have an emphasis on the realization that the game is not going to evolve or yield any sort of new challenging content, and I think people focused too much on the remark about me realizing that this was a casual’s game. I’ve been clued in on that for awhile, but I enjoyed the game for awhile too and had been hoping for several months that there would be new PvE content that was difficult for me. Canach’s Lair was sort of the straw that broke my back, and I really lost all hope I had left at that point, along with a lot of other people in my guild.

If you want challenge, go against real players. Beating hard bosses, they become easy over time because you can predict the attack. Go against hard to predict foes: go against human players….

As for reward: seeing your name on top of that list as being the best of the best..

DeathMetal.8264:

If you want challenge, go against real players. Beating hard bosses, they become easy over time because you can predict the attack. Go against hard to predict foes: go against human players….

As for reward: seeing your name on top of that list as being the best of the best..

I’ve addressed this about 8 times.

DeathMetal.8264:

If you want challenge, go against real players. Beating hard bosses, they become easy over time because you can predict the attack. Go against hard to predict foes: go against human players….

As for reward: seeing your name on top of that list as being the best of the best..

Pvp in this game sucks, though.

I see where you’re coming from, OP, but I guess I don’t really see it as a problem. GW2 IS meant to be a casual’s game. It is not really for the players who join, master the game’s mechanics in a few weeks, soar to the heights of PvE mastery with Legendaries, titles and what not, and then feel that there’s nothing left to do. There’s plenty to do; you just blazed through it too quickly.

For me, I’m having fun getting my 5 characters through the game at a sleepy Dolyak’s pace. I’ve played since launch date. All of my characters are level 80, yet aside from Southsun Cove, the highest level map I’ve visited is Fields of Ruin. My characters are wearing a mishmash of Masterworks and the odd Rare. I’ve yet to do a single dungeon (aside from Living Story ones), I haven’t tried WvW, and I’m pretty sure I’d get my rear handed to me in PvP. Yet I’m still eagerly logging in every night to continue my adventures, because there’s still so much left to do.

Perhaps it is not a question of difficulty or the amount of content, but simply a matter of pacing yourself.

Zaxares.5419:

I see where you’re coming from, OP, but I guess I don’t really see it as a problem. GW2 IS meant to be a casual’s game. It is not really for the players who join, master the game’s mechanics in a few weeks, soar to the heights of PvE mastery with Legendaries, titles and what not, and then feel that there’s nothing left to do. There’s plenty to do; you just blazed through it too quickly.

For me, I’m having fun getting my 5 characters through the game at a sleepy Dolyak’s pace. I’ve played since launch date. All of my characters are level 80, yet aside from Southsun Cove, the highest level map I’ve visited is Fields of Ruin. My characters are wearing a mishmash of Masterworks and the odd Rare. I’ve yet to do a single dungeon (aside from Living Story ones), I haven’t tried WvW, and I’m pretty sure I’d get my rear handed to me in PvP. Yet I’m still eagerly logging in every night to continue my adventures, because there’s still so much left to do.

Perhaps it is not a question of difficulty or the amount of content, but simply a matter of pacing yourself.

I don’t really have fun just going about things to go about things. I like to go in and destroy content. My hope for this game was that something other than RNG boxes or temporary content would be introduced. Maybe a quote from another one of my personal heroes sums it up better than I can:

“I wanna go fast” – Ricky Bobby