Guild Wars 2

Why is there no end game in Guild Wars 2? That is the most important part of an MMO. Sure, the leveling experience is a huge part of an MMO, but if there isn’t anything to do at end game, what do we have to look forward to? Why is there even a leveling system if there is no reason to be 80 (aside from skills, more “dungeons,” and zones that only host events)?

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-endgame-reimagined/

The ‘end game’ starts at lvl 1.

The reason to be level 80 is (or was) so that you would be done chasing carrots around, and could just play the game, because it was fun to play, and for no other reason than for the fun of it.

That’s a better endgame than and endless succession of bits and bobs to collect.

magabury.5792:

That is the most important part of an MMO.

The most important part of a game is to enjoy yourself – hopefully in a good constructive way.

Not saying your post is wrong, nor am I making a statement about endgame or lack of endgame. However, I think a perception shift might be important for people to have.

Wilky.7521:

The ‘end game’ starts at lvl 1.

Enh, it starts at level 80. Or 60, at least level. Because the part where you’re stumbling through the game without access to traits you need to make a bunch of builds work is sort of an extended tutorial.

The game is a living world, ever changing so there is no endgame. The game evolves with time. The game is meant to be played by all aspects of players. If you didnt have levels in any game it would feel like you are not doing anything or accomplishing something. At least here you have something to look forward to whether its a dungeon armor set, pvp, legendary weapon, map completion, trade post trader. The game is here to allow you to play it how you want to play it.

What are the typical features of MMOG “endgame”?

• Dungeons / raids — there are definitely dungeons
• Grinding achievements — check, although the interface should probably emphasize them more, I think
• Getting prestige gear — Legendary stuff definitely qualifies
• PvPing with your high-level character — World vs. World

Basically the only standard activity that’s conspicuously absent is raids, and that’s because GW2 opted to do small-party dungeons instead of large-party dungeons. There’s nothing inherent about 40-man raids that makes them more “endgame”-y than 5-man dungeon parties.

Crater.1625:

The reason to be level 80 is (or was) so that you would be done chasing carrots around, and could just play the game, because it was fun to play, and for no other reason than for the fun of it.

That’s a better endgame than and endless succession of bits and bobs to collect.

So I’m supposed to grind “stuff” to make “things” until I hit the max level. At that point, I no longer chase the carrot..to walk around and look at the trees and things? I’m pretty sure they’ve got a near endless succession of bits and bobs to collect if you want to craft any sort of cool gear—http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_weapon.

ASP.8093:

There’s nothing inherent about 40-man raids that makes them more “endgame”-y than 5-man dungeon parties.

Those 40-man raids usually had some mechanics that made them fun. I’ve not run Arah yet, but everything else has been pretty bland and tank&spank. I’d also like to see some real loot out of the dungeons I run. I’ve picked up one yellow through the entirety of the time I’ve played the game. Majority of it seems to be sub-80 blues/greens.

As for Legendary stuff..see above.

ASP.8093:

What are the typical features of MMOG “endgame”?

• Dungeons / raids — there are definitely dungeons
• Grinding achievements — check, although the interface should probably emphasize them more, I think
• Getting prestige gear — Legendary stuff definitely qualifies
• PvPing with your high-level character — World vs. World

Basically the only standard activity that’s conspicuously absent is raids, and that’s because GW2 opted to do small-party dungeons instead of large-party dungeons. There’s nothing inherent about 40-man raids that makes them more “endgame”-y than 5-man dungeon parties.

The only reason to do a dungeon is to get tokens to look pretty.

Achievement grinding is not an “end game” feature in any MMO.

Legendary items are merely cosmetic, and that hardly justifies what is required to make them.

PvP is the same as dungeons, no reason except to look cool as you kill people.

Raids are more end game-ish, in the sense that there is a reason to do it, other than to look pretty. You get gear, gear that allows you to see harder content. Raids require much more coordination, and are best done with a guild. Raiding brings a guild together, and requires them to work as a team to get stuff done. Guilds are very mediocre in this game, which is pretty ironic, considering its name.

I see where ANet was going with this whole end game “reimagined” thing, but the fact that there is nothing MORE to do at max level, is rather upsetting. You do the same stuff until 80, and get to continue doing it.

Vocality.9712:

So I’m supposed to grind “stuff” to make “things” until I hit the max level. At that point, I no longer chase the carrot..to walk around and look at the trees and things? I’m pretty sure they’ve got a near endless succession of bits and bobs to collect if you want to craft any sort of cool gear—http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_weapon.

Yes, and collecting bits and bobs is fine if you’re doing it because you want something cool at the end. Not so much if you have to do it just because you’re not finished with your character’s stats until you do.

I think it’s misleading to call grinding dungeons to get max gear “endgame” to begin with. You’re not actually at the “end” until you’ve completed that. What do you do then, in WoW or whatever? Chase achievements, keep doing the same raids you’ve “finished” just for fun or extra money, try to pick up character bling like fancy mounts, and other self-directed stuff like that.

Also, to nitpick…

magabury.5792:

Raids require much more coordination, and are best done with a guild. Raiding brings a guild together, and requires them to work as a team to get stuff done.

Now you’re complaining about how the “endgame” stuff is implemented. That’s not actually “Where is the endgame?” It’s “This endgame is unappealing.” Based on my experience in GW1, though, your complaint about coordination is a level-design and mechanics issue and group size has fairly little to do with it.

magabury.5792:

PvP is the same as dungeons, no reason except to look cool as you kill people.

I don’t think you understand the point of PvP. Like, at all. PvP with unbalanced stats, the way many MMOGs have done it, is absolutely degenerate. It’s not sensible competition in the slightest.

If you’re going to ask a rhetorical question, don’t label it a Q&A.

The game was ment to be enjoyed all the way to 80, but there are often still people who took this game and rushed to the top expecting so much more and missed so much. Its a new game and clearly stated it wasn’t about being just an “end game” kind of game. There’s a pretty huge world to explore even if it’s not all lvl 80 content, it lvl adjusts so it’s always somewhat challenging. It’s too soon to expect the game to offer a lot post 80 content but it does an amazing job of making pre 80 content still useful when you get there.