Guild Wars 2

gamingglory.2097:

Red Falcon.8257:

GW2 is not a game based on the concept of “endgame”, as in being enslaved in a circular flow of repetitive grind->reward system.

Anet has been yelling for months that they were doing away with that kind of endgame and were going to give us legendaries for PvE, WvW for PvPvE guys and sPvP for pvpers.
They did.

Not happy with this formula?
You bought the wrong game for you, regardless Anet yelling this at you for years.
Guess who’s to blame.

You know what is hilarious, you say they didn’t want to do this but they did. The whole game has many aspects that promote a circular grind already for a reward.

So you know what? Why not let us structured PvE folks have our rewards for completing harder content with more powerful loot.

I have to agree with you. My leveling experience thus far has been the ‘carrot on a stick’ for gear with stats.

Anyone who says gear doesn’t matter in GW2 is fooling themselves.

On that note, love the game and don’t miss real life in the least!

nerva.7940:

DrakeWurrum.6049:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-endgame-reimagined/

So I just read that article, and I’m kind of shocked.

dude, the whole point of the article was that Orr ISNT the entire endgame. once u get to Orr and finish it, u move on to the rest of the world (lower level zones) and complete the content youve missed. or you level crafting. or explore.

Complete the content you missed, so what does that entail? Doing all the heart quests and getting barley any money? Farming Karma from any DE you can find to get your exotic gear? Farming your crafting up to create your gear? Explore the whole map, get all the WP’s, all the PoI’s – Vistas to get what, an achievement unlocked? You don’t get anything for it, there isn’t any real progression after you get your gear because gear is the only thing that actually effects your character and how he plays. You don’t do more damage by unlocking the whole map, you do however get a nice little plaque on your login screen and get to see fractions that = 1

After 80 there is no character progression at all

DrakeWurrum.6049:

Most Elementalists I see on public discussion boards, and talk to directly, seem to suggest that Elementalists are grossly underpowered and a terrible choice for dungeons.

Well I tend to find that public discussion forums attract the whiners. Elementalist is definitely not the most powerful class, but grossly underpowered? I think not.

It doesn’t matter if it’s true or not or how much – the classism is still there

This is true and I would definitely concede that point. Classism in this game, however, is based almost entirely on ignorance. I honestly would not want to be grouped with such people, because they have adopted the type of mindset that will likely cause their failure (and, thusly, a waste of my time and patience).

and the composition of your group will still affect how easy or hard the dungeon is. (Plenty of people seem to think that you must have a Guardian, for example – not because it’s required, but because of how easy they make it)

And this is what drives me absolutely bonkers because it is the most annoying and incorrect mindset that players have adopted! Guardians DO NOT make dungeons particularly easier! People are so conditioned by other games where having a healer helps make content much easier. To those who believe this, please read: THAT IS NOT THE CASE IN GW2.

The mobs and bosses that are really hard in this game? They kill you in a few hits (including your precious Guardians!). It’s not healing, but dodging, stunning, and debuffs like blind and condition removals that save your behind. I have run dungeons with different types of guardians (I’ve even done runs with two). Even when they are “support” specced, they still don’t help much more than the DPS specced Thief. It all amounts to their skill. That’s why I implore you guys to stop it. The Guardian does NOT make content easier. Just stop. You’ve been brainwashed. Let it go. You know why this is even funnier to me? Besides their one elite, my burst healing with Elementalist Staff is far superior to any non-elite options that the Guardian can bring.

There’s also an entire thread in the Elementalist sub-forum right on these official forums of people sharing their experiences of being denied by groups entirely due to being Elementalist.

Good riddance. Those groups are the types of people who fail dungeons miserably. I have yet to participate in a group that has failed a dungeon run so far.

When it comes to dungeons I’ll tell you why Elementalist is a great choice: because we are extremely flexible. You’re right in saying that dungeons run better with certain class combinations (but in the hands of skilled players, it’s quite marginal really), but the best classes depend on the dungeon. And that’s because some dungeons require more single target DPS, others more AoE, others more healing/condition removal, and some others CC. You know the great thing about Elementalist? They can do all of these things WELL, most classes either can’t do some of them or do them poorly.

For example, AC is better run with high DPS (mostly single-target, but some AoE for Breeder adds) with CC and debuffers. Healing is not as useful as kiting and blinding. You have key targets that you need to kill and you need to kill fast.

In CM though, it was switched. In CM, AoE DPS and healing were more important that other abilities that were brought to the table. Fortunately, I was able to perform optimally in both groups, because I have good single target DPS, great AoE DPS, great healing, and good crowd control.

So.. yeah. If a group isn’t taking an Elementalist, that’s their loss for their own stupidity and that Elementalist just lucked out from being in a group with a bunch of morons.

Azzras.8041:

gamingglory.2097:

Red Falcon.8257:

GW2 is not a game based on the concept of “endgame”, as in being enslaved in a circular flow of repetitive grind->reward system.

Anet has been yelling for months that they were doing away with that kind of endgame and were going to give us legendaries for PvE, WvW for PvPvE guys and sPvP for pvpers.
They did.

Not happy with this formula?
You bought the wrong game for you, regardless Anet yelling this at you for years.
Guess who’s to blame.

You know what is hilarious, you say they didn’t want to do this but they did. The whole game has many aspects that promote a circular grind already for a reward.

So you know what? Why not let us structured PvE folks have our rewards for completing harder content with more powerful loot.

I have to agree with you. My leveling experience thus far has been the ‘carrot on a stick’ for gear with stats.

Anyone who says gear doesn’t matter in GW2 is fooling themselves.

On that note, love the game and don’t miss real life in the least!

Yes, but this game isn’t gear dependent. Meaning they don’t offer any higher tiers of gear and don’t set the player’s goal to get high level gear. The hardest accomplishment in this game is getting a legendary item, which is an exotic but with a different skin..I mean common, who cares? I wouldn’t, if there isn’t any real reward, if there isn’t any real impact on what I’m doing than why would I do it. I wouldn’t.

This is one game where playing during the non peak times can actually be an advantage. I get to play during non peak times, and ever since I entered Kessex, I have seen lot of DEs fail and seen the event that happens because of the failure.

I think things will eventually even out population wise in the leveling zones, so there isn’t a herd at every DE. It’ll probably get to the point where Arenanet will just need to make adjustments to the level 80 zones (if that is where the bulk of the player base is hanging out) so that failures happen more often, but they probably won’t have to do that for all the zones.

The mindless zerg is a result of removing the Holy Trinity from the game…

That article was so self serving I was getting angry while reading it. I hope the devs don’t think that GW2 is so revolutionary, because it’s not. So many aspects of the game are similar to other games. The game still needs a lot of polishing both pvp and pve. The only things that sticks out are events and the combat.

However the re imaging of end game is you zerg or you run around in circle using range, because mobs just 1-3 shot you. I almost feel like if they kept the holy trinity they could have done a lot more with it. Well I guess they sort of still have the holy trinity, its just clunky as hell to be a healer.

While the challenge aspect of Orr may be good for end game content it has to be some of the worst, dull, uninspiring maps in the game thus far… why everything needs to lead to a dark, glooming lifeless end is a fundamental design mistake. While Divinity, Salvari, Norn and Lions Arch lands are some of the most beautiful and pleasant in the game. Why not have 70-80 areas for these themed lands.

The game just released. If Anet is thoughtful, and they seem to be, they will likely have more and more challenging “endgame” content coming- giving players a chance to get used to the mechanics of the game.

Personally I would love it if they added ridiculously hard end boss fights where even if you had 100s of people participating, most people died if not playing their classes properly.

If you are a “hardcore” gamer and finished everything with ease, well congratulations? I think you probably got your moneys worth.

I’m not 80 yet and have not tried Orr being that I am sort of taking my time, but from everything I’ve been reading /hearing besides spvp or wvwvw there is not much to do at 80.

If the end game content is a big zerg fest I can’t see that holding my interest for long. I love the game and the fighting and the exploring, but am finding playing for any extended period of time becoming a challenge. It’s just the same hearts and same events and same mobs since lvl 1 and is already getting kind of boring, and realistically there isn’t a lot of point grinding to 80 anyways if you just want to pvp seeing how you can do it at lvl 5 get bumped to 80 in wvwvw and bumped to 80 plus given any and all pvp gear / gems and all you traits point / skill points.

There does not feel like there is really anything to look forward to or accomplish once you hit 80.

It’s not about racing to the end and getting your moneys worth, it’s about where you’ll be spending most your time as a lvl80 player, if you’ve played Orr you’d know it is one of the least attractive parts of the game. While some of the earlier content is brilliant, great atmosphere and pleasing to the eye… but they are passing areas when levelling up where they should have saved some for the last where you’ll spend most of your time as a lvl80 player.

TransparentlyOpaque.1824:

The game just released. If Anet is thoughtful, and they seem to be, they will likely have more and more challenging “endgame” content coming- giving players a chance to get used to the mechanics of the game.

Personally I would love it if they added ridiculously hard end boss fights where even if you had 100s of people participating, most people died if not playing their classes properly.

If you are a “hardcore” gamer and finished everything with ease, well congratulations? I think you probably got your moneys worth.

When buying a game I base “moneys worth” on replay value, not seeing much of that at the moment

Geemo.6018:

The mindless zerg is a result of removing the Holy Trinity from the game…

Rift has the Holy Trinity, and the Rift events were still just winning by zerging. The mindless zerg has nothing to do with not having a holy trinity, it is because there are so many people currently and the population hasn’t spread out because this game is still really new.

Amadeuz.4617:

DirtyHoudini.2917:

Azzras.8041:

gamingglory.2097:

Red Falcon.8257:

GW2 is not a game based on the concept of “endgame”, as in being enslaved in a circular flow of repetitive grind->reward system.

Anet has been yelling for months that they were doing away with that kind of endgame and were going to give us legendaries for PvE, WvW for PvPvE guys and sPvP for pvpers.
They did.

Not happy with this formula?
You bought the wrong game for you, regardless Anet yelling this at you for years.
Guess who’s to blame.

You know what is hilarious, you say they didn’t want to do this but they did. The whole game has many aspects that promote a circular grind already for a reward.

So you know what? Why not let us structured PvE folks have our rewards for completing harder content with more powerful loot.

I have to agree with you. My leveling experience thus far has been the ‘carrot on a stick’ for gear with stats.

Anyone who says gear doesn’t matter in GW2 is fooling themselves.

On that note, love the game and don’t miss real life in the least!

Yes, but this game isn’t gear dependent. Meaning they don’t offer any higher tiers of gear and don’t set the player’s goal to get high level gear. The hardest accomplishment in this game is getting a legendary item, which is an exotic but with a different skin..I mean common, who cares? I wouldn’t, if there isn’t any real reward, if there isn’t any real impact on what I’m doing than why would I do it. I wouldn’t.

You should know that GW2 is all about horizontal progression game, not GEAR TREADMILLS WITH NO LIFE ENDLESSLY GRIND ALL THE TIME FOR BETTER STATS GEAR GAME.
The things that separate between players are Playstyles, because all attributes in this game are crucial, gear progression in GW2 is seeking for suitable gear which proper to your Builds, your Traits, your Playstyles and making your character become more unique and better looking. Rather than become more stats, more tiers, more powerful and make the entire game is all about mindless grinding game. What’s the point when you are level 80 and you seeking for gears and when you get gears you already know that there are always better gears in the game since the new patches come out. I have enlightened before that it is completely pointless to play those type of games just for grinding to better gears. So If you want “Those type of games" please go back to plenty traditional MMOs.

Um what?

“So If you want “Those type of games” please go back to plenty traditional MMOs."
^
Nice I foresee another mmo troll community.

Dedish.7923:

Amadeuz.4617:

DirtyHoudini.2917:

Azzras.8041:

gamingglory.2097:

Red Falcon.8257:

GW2 is not a game based on the concept of “endgame”, as in being enslaved in a circular flow of repetitive grind->reward system.

Anet has been yelling for months that they were doing away with that kind of endgame and were going to give us legendaries for PvE, WvW for PvPvE guys and sPvP for pvpers.
They did.

Not happy with this formula?
You bought the wrong game for you, regardless Anet yelling this at you for years.
Guess who’s to blame.

You know what is hilarious, you say they didn’t want to do this but they did. The whole game has many aspects that promote a circular grind already for a reward.

So you know what? Why not let us structured PvE folks have our rewards for completing harder content with more powerful loot.

I have to agree with you. My leveling experience thus far has been the ‘carrot on a stick’ for gear with stats.

Anyone who says gear doesn’t matter in GW2 is fooling themselves.

On that note, love the game and don’t miss real life in the least!

Yes, but this game isn’t gear dependent. Meaning they don’t offer any higher tiers of gear and don’t set the player’s goal to get high level gear. The hardest accomplishment in this game is getting a legendary item, which is an exotic but with a different skin..I mean common, who cares? I wouldn’t, if there isn’t any real reward, if there isn’t any real impact on what I’m doing than why would I do it. I wouldn’t.

You should know that GW2 is all about horizontal progression game, not GEAR TREADMILLS WITH NO LIFE ENDLESSLY GRIND ALL THE TIME FOR BETTER STATS GEAR GAME.
The things that separate between players are Playstyles, because all attributes in this game are crucial, gear progression in GW2 is seeking for suitable gear which proper to your Builds, your Traits, your Playstyles and making your character become more unique and better looking. Rather than become more stats, more tiers, more powerful and make the entire game is all about mindless grinding game. What’s the point when you are level 80 and you seeking for gears and when you get gears you already know that there are always better gears in the game since the new patches come out. I have enlightened before that it is completely pointless to play those type of games just for grinding to better gears. So If you want “Those type of games" please go back to plenty traditional MMOs.

Um what?

“So If you want “Those type of games” please go back to plenty traditional MMOs."
^
Nice I foresee another mmo troll community.

I’m just suggest someone and staying in the fact that GW2 can’t please everyone. I don’t get, How troll is that?

Can we have some suggestions for some fun bosses-mechanic-fights , instead of fighting with each other ? :P

Or how about designing some more pleasing areas to play in as a lvl80 player other than the doom and gloom of Orr.

My argument is that they wouldn’t have to have tiered gear honestly. They could have gear that is themed to a certain raid with bonuses to certain sets that make them interesting. The bonuses would be like "chance to summon a volley of arrows on the ground for X seconds (this ability cannot proc more than x times per minute – 20 yard radius). If the theme is in an Ascolonian Castle then you can get gear to summon an elite lieutenant to fight by your side for 30 seconds. The stats could be slightly better than other gear, but not by much as well. But these wouldn’t be tier items.

Each raid of an expansion will drop this kind of loot with the same stat values. That way you can use any raid gear you want for whatever raid you want to do. The whole point is really about winning the loot and also beating very tough multiphase encounters with huge enemies. A new expansion will likely raise the level cap and as such require higher level gear anyway.

Airien.4798:

I found this article to be great and really lay it down to those who see this game for something it’s not. This game is all about the journey to level 80 and I feel the article really points out that those who chose to breeze through the content really missed out on the meat of the game.

Try thinking outside the box and enjoy a game where you don’t need to watch your XP bar whatsoever. Enjoy the game first and think of levels as secondary, it will make the game much more appeasable to those accustomed to the past decades genre of MMO’s.

Happy huntin’.

I really enjoyed the article, it made me step back a bit and say to myself ‘Why am i trying to rush 1 character to 80’ I have a 60 ele, but it’s inspired me to re-roll something else, since endgame in GW2 is essentially the leveling game.

I do agree with the OP a bit on DEs being a bit of a push over when there’s tons of players, hopefully over time 2 things will happen, 1 they will balance them better with patches for more people, and 2 people will be more spread out, which i’m already noticing on my server (sea of sorrows) at least in the 50-60 areas. I have in face been to a couple of events where we failed, due to not having that many people there, one time I was the ONLY one trying to defend a small outpost.

Thing is we don’t actually know how many people these events are built to scale for, the only one I know of (which I don’t even know where it is) i saw in a video of TotalBiscuits at gamescon last year, was it was built to scale from 10-100 players. A big dragon fight of some description i’m sure others will know the one.

But other DEs, many of them are probably built to scale up to only 10 or 20 players perhaps, we don’t really know the specifics.

Lionhearted.7169:

Or how about designing some more pleasing areas to play in as a lvl80 player other than the doom and gloom of Orr.

They want life, in the lower tier lvls , so i believe we will see some boses there too , after a while :P

Edit : Describe ur perfect boss encounter
/Discuss
(who silly ppl , made this silly phrase…)

It is quite easy to add difficulty to the game.

Force people to dodge——-

It is very rare for people to actually have to dodge anything for most bosses. Just have some melee people keeping the bosses attention while all the ranged people just auto attack. This is worsened by the fact that even melee based characters can go ranged to make it even easier on them to keep DPs on bosses while kiting them.

A very good example of a well made difficult boss fight for the level it is at, is the Fire Elemental in the Asuran area. So much dodging is needed to be done to even stay alive. It is a challenging boss for the area that it is in. One would think that the rest of the bosses will be just as difficult with many AoE’s to dodge and keep you on your toes. But it is quite the opposite. You end up seeing things like the Shadow Behemoth in the human 1-15 area (Queensdale) which is ridiculously easy to defeat. You only have 2 attack you need to be worried about, and kill the underworld portals which go down in no time with around 10-15 people and only 6-7 of them actually bothering to kill the portals.

The elemental hand in the Hirathi Hinterlands that the Centaur leader spawns is a JOKE. It does not even fully form before it is destroyed. What is that? It’s supposed to be more difficult than the rock dogs he spawns but it goes down exponentially faster than they do. It is no comparison!

It is undoubtedly obvious that the game needs to be harder. The bosses need to have bigger AoE attacks, more ranged attacks to keep ranged characters moving and not just auto attacking, more movement, more things to keep an eye on. I’d prefer to have this fixed so we can actually have more fun with the current batch of content we have right now rather than getting more bland content.

Please Anet, take this into consideration at the very least. They game is on Easy mode. Up it to Expert after level 80 at least….

TL;DR: The game has a lot of bark but not enough bite. The difficulty when fighting a boss needs to match the intense atmosphere that it creates. If not, why not just watch a movie or a gameplay video?

Dedish.7923:

TransparentlyOpaque.1824:

The game just released. If Anet is thoughtful, and they seem to be, they will likely have more and more challenging “endgame” content coming- giving players a chance to get used to the mechanics of the game.

Personally I would love it if they added ridiculously hard end boss fights where even if you had 100s of people participating, most people died if not playing their classes properly.

If you are a “hardcore” gamer and finished everything with ease, well congratulations? I think you probably got your moneys worth.

When buying a game I base “moneys worth” on replay value, not seeing much of that at the moment

Alright, your opinion is valid.

I have not taken my character to level 40 even yet, have not seen a great portion of the map, have lots of interest in trying other characters/professions/races, have participated in fun sPVP, WvWvW, did some crafting, went back to zones I completed for craft materials and found things I missed the first time, and I still have yet to head out to the Ascelion Dungeon.

For me, I think I am getting my moneys worth out of the game. How much replayablity to you expect from a one time purchase? I played TOR, the only other MMO I bothered to try, and one play through was enough for me- and I dropped a lot more total $$$ on the game. Talk about not getting replay to dollar value!

Amadeuz.4617:

Dedish.7923:

Amadeuz.4617:

DirtyHoudini.2917:

Azzras.8041:

gamingglory.2097:

Red Falcon.8257:

GW2 is not a game based on the concept of “endgame”, as in being enslaved in a circular flow of repetitive grind->reward system.

Anet has been yelling for months that they were doing away with that kind of endgame and were going to give us legendaries for PvE, WvW for PvPvE guys and sPvP for pvpers.
They did.

Not happy with this formula?
You bought the wrong game for you, regardless Anet yelling this at you for years.
Guess who’s to blame.

You know what is hilarious, you say they didn’t want to do this but they did. The whole game has many aspects that promote a circular grind already for a reward.

So you know what? Why not let us structured PvE folks have our rewards for completing harder content with more powerful loot.

I have to agree with you. My leveling experience thus far has been the ‘carrot on a stick’ for gear with stats.

Anyone who says gear doesn’t matter in GW2 is fooling themselves.

On that note, love the game and don’t miss real life in the least!

Yes, but this game isn’t gear dependent. Meaning they don’t offer any higher tiers of gear and don’t set the player’s goal to get high level gear. The hardest accomplishment in this game is getting a legendary item, which is an exotic but with a different skin..I mean common, who cares? I wouldn’t, if there isn’t any real reward, if there isn’t any real impact on what I’m doing than why would I do it. I wouldn’t.

You should know that GW2 is all about horizontal progression game, not GEAR TREADMILLS WITH NO LIFE ENDLESSLY GRIND ALL THE TIME FOR BETTER STATS GEAR GAME.
The things that separate between players are Playstyles, because all attributes in this game are crucial, gear progression in GW2 is seeking for suitable gear which proper to your Builds, your Traits, your Playstyles and making your character become more unique and better looking. Rather than become more stats, more tiers, more powerful and make the entire game is all about mindless grinding game. What’s the point when you are level 80 and you seeking for gears and when you get gears you already know that there are always better gears in the game since the new patches come out. I have enlightened before that it is completely pointless to play those type of games just for grinding to better gears. So If you want “Those type of games" please go back to plenty traditional MMOs.

Um what?

“So If you want “Those type of games” please go back to plenty traditional MMOs."
^
Nice I foresee another mmo troll community.

I’m just suggest someone and staying in the fact that GW2 can’t please everyone. I don’t get, How troll is that?

Still have no idea wtf you are saying, and that whole then this isn’t the game for you rant coming from GW1 players does not reflect well for the game or the community. People are entitled to have a opinion.

TransparentlyOpaque.1824:

Dedish.7923:

TransparentlyOpaque.1824:

The game just released. If Anet is thoughtful, and they seem to be, they will likely have more and more challenging “endgame” content coming- giving players a chance to get used to the mechanics of the game.

Personally I would love it if they added ridiculously hard end boss fights where even if you had 100s of people participating, most people died if not playing their classes properly.

If you are a “hardcore” gamer and finished everything with ease, well congratulations? I think you probably got your moneys worth.

When buying a game I base “moneys worth” on replay value, not seeing much of that at the moment

Alright, your opinion is valid.

I have not taken my character to level 40 even yet, have not seen a great portion of the map, have lots of interest in trying other characters/professions/races, have participated in fun sPVP, WvWvW, did some crafting, went back to zones I completed for craft materials and found things I missed the first time, and I still have yet to head out to the Ascelion Dungeon.

For me, I think I am getting my moneys worth out of the game. How much replayablity to you expect from a one time purchase? I played TOR, the only other MMO I bothered to try, and one play through was enough for me- and I dropped a lot more total $$$ on the game. Talk about not getting replay to dollar value!

It’s a MMO it is not supposed to be get to 80 then have nothing to do, farming gear just because it looks cool but has no real stat advantages seems pointless. Most people would rather pay a sub and have stuff to do/ some sort of progression at lvl cap then buy the game play through once or twice and be done with it.

I mean despite loving the game and how it looks/ feels I have been having more fun on the forums then in game and I’m only lvl 68, that doesn’t bode well imo.

Dedish.7923:

Amadeuz.4617:

Dedish.7923:

Amadeuz.4617:

DirtyHoudini.2917:

Azzras.8041:

gamingglory.2097:

Red Falcon.8257:

GW2 is not a game based on the concept of “endgame”, as in being enslaved in a circular flow of repetitive grind->reward system.

Anet has been yelling for months that they were doing away with that kind of endgame and were going to give us legendaries for PvE, WvW for PvPvE guys and sPvP for pvpers.
They did.

Not happy with this formula?
You bought the wrong game for you, regardless Anet yelling this at you for years.
Guess who’s to blame.

You know what is hilarious, you say they didn’t want to do this but they did. The whole game has many aspects that promote a circular grind already for a reward.

So you know what? Why not let us structured PvE folks have our rewards for completing harder content with more powerful loot.

I have to agree with you. My leveling experience thus far has been the ‘carrot on a stick’ for gear with stats.

Anyone who says gear doesn’t matter in GW2 is fooling themselves.

On that note, love the game and don’t miss real life in the least!

Yes, but this game isn’t gear dependent. Meaning they don’t offer any higher tiers of gear and don’t set the player’s goal to get high level gear. The hardest accomplishment in this game is getting a legendary item, which is an exotic but with a different skin..I mean common, who cares? I wouldn’t, if there isn’t any real reward, if there isn’t any real impact on what I’m doing than why would I do it. I wouldn’t.

You should know that GW2 is all about horizontal progression game, not GEAR TREADMILLS WITH NO LIFE ENDLESSLY GRIND ALL THE TIME FOR BETTER STATS GEAR GAME.
The things that separate between players are Playstyles, because all attributes in this game are crucial, gear progression in GW2 is seeking for suitable gear which proper to your Builds, your Traits, your Playstyles and making your character become more unique and better looking. Rather than become more stats, more tiers, more powerful and make the entire game is all about mindless grinding game. What’s the point when you are level 80 and you seeking for gears and when you get gears you already know that there are always better gears in the game since the new patches come out. I have enlightened before that it is completely pointless to play those type of games just for grinding to better gears. So If you want “Those type of games" please go back to plenty traditional MMOs.

Um what?

“So If you want “Those type of games” please go back to plenty traditional MMOs."
^
Nice I foresee another mmo troll community.

I’m just suggest someone and staying in the fact that GW2 can’t please everyone. I don’t get, How troll is that?

Still have no idea wtf you are saying, and that whole then this isn’t the game for you rant coming from GW1 players does not reflect well for the game or the community. People are entitled to have a opinion.

Still have no idea, what you upset with my context with the purposes is that suggest to someone who rant that “ooh GW2 has no X things for me” and I said “Well buddies GW2 will never offer that X things for you because it isn’t the whole aspect of this game, for me I am done with this X things because I don’t find it fun to play the entire game just to get the X things while experience the entire game. But you can play other games which have X things for you if you really want it”

BTW, I haven’t played GW1 before.

Dedish why did u buy GW2 while it didnt have a gear trendmill ?

Killthehealersffs.8940:

Dedish why did u buy GW2 while it didnt have a gear trendmill ?

You are missing the point, not complaining there is no gear treadmill. If you had actually read all the post to begin with you might have come to realize it is about end game zerg fest being boring and not challenging.

People are saying the game is about skill, but there is no skill what so ever in 100’s of people attacking a single mob besides knowing that when his leg lifts gtfo, it’s a faceroll.

MY reason for buying the game are my own and do not need to be explained

Dedish.7923:

TransparentlyOpaque.1824:

Dedish.7923:

TransparentlyOpaque.1824:

The game just released. If Anet is thoughtful, and they seem to be, they will likely have more and more challenging “endgame” content coming- giving players a chance to get used to the mechanics of the game.

Personally I would love it if they added ridiculously hard end boss fights where even if you had 100s of people participating, most people died if not playing their classes properly.

If you are a “hardcore” gamer and finished everything with ease, well congratulations? I think you probably got your moneys worth.

When buying a game I base “moneys worth” on replay value, not seeing much of that at the moment

Alright, your opinion is valid.

I have not taken my character to level 40 even yet, have not seen a great portion of the map, have lots of interest in trying other characters/professions/races, have participated in fun sPVP, WvWvW, did some crafting, went back to zones I completed for craft materials and found things I missed the first time, and I still have yet to head out to the Ascelion Dungeon.

For me, I think I am getting my moneys worth out of the game. How much replayablity to you expect from a one time purchase? I played TOR, the only other MMO I bothered to try, and one play through was enough for me- and I dropped a lot more total $$$ on the game. Talk about not getting replay to dollar value!

It’s a MMO it is not supposed to be get to 80 then have nothing to do, farming gear just because it looks cool but has no real stat advantages seems pointless. Most people would rather pay a sub and have stuff to do/ some sort of progression at lvl cap then buy the game play through once or twice and be done with it.

I mean despite loving the game and how it looks/ feels I have been having more fun on the forums then in game and I’m only lvl 68, that doesn’t bode well imo.

What sort of things to MMOS that have a sub have to do at level cap? If playing the same area over and over and over and over for new armor with stats is the “something to do” that is worth a subscription any more, well then unfortunately this game may not fit your preferred style of Pay to Play (the same thing over and over).

I would hate to see anyone go already, especially if you enjoy the game, though consider that you have no other money riding on the GW2 at the moment. And on top of that, the game will be fleshed out further with FREE content in the coming months. It seems like a great deal to me, and you will have to take my word, I am very particular about my spending!

Dedish.7923:

Killthehealersffs.8940:

Dedish why did u buy GW2 while it didnt have a gear trendmill ?

You are missing the point, not complaining there is no gear treadmill. If you had actually read all the post to begin with you might have come to realize it is about end game zerg fest being boring and not challenging.

People are saying the game is about skill, but there is no skill what so ever in 100’s of people attacking a single mob besides knowing that when his leg lifts gtfo, it’s a faceroll.

MY reason for buying the game are my own and do not need to be explained

If you talk about there is really few challenge and there are zergfest all around even in explorable mode dungeon, I have to admit that GW2 really need more strategy to require more players skill to achieve the game. The GW2 right now is all about trying to gather the players and zerg the contents then conquest the game really easily.

But again GW2 is not stats/gears progression, it is character’s achievement progression.

Still have no idea, what you upset with my context with the purposes is that suggest to someone who rant that “ooh GW2 has no X things for me” and I said “Well buddies GW2 will never offer that X things for you because it isn’t the whole aspect of this game, for me I am done with this X things because I don’t find it fun to play the entire game just to get the X things while experience the entire game. But you can play other games which has X things for you if you really want it”

BTW, I haven’t played GW1 before.

[/quote]

Sigh….. did I say I want a gear treadmill ever in any of the post I have made on this topic? Did I say I was looking for x whatever the hell x is supposed to be? No I did not in any way shape or form. How do you know what GW2 will offer or will not? Are you a Anet employee? Doubtful very much. I was just agreeing with the OP that from what I have seen, read, and heard that end game content is lacking, and there feels to be no real progression once you hit 80.

If that is what Arenanet wants for the game then fine that’s their choice. Will it be the WoW dethroner or any other MMO for that matter like most GW1 fans seem to think? Likely not. Is it really bringing anything new to the genre? Not at all. Taking out the gear treadmill WHICH I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT is nothing new, the gameplay / fighting isn’t revolutionary in any way. All they have done is taking out any sort of accomplishment players might feel at 80.

Perhaps this game shouldn’t be labeled as a MMO at all then.

Like I said earlier I like the game and enjoy it and find it to be quite pleasing to the eye, but as far as any sort of replay value or reason to play at all for most mmo gamers there seems to be none. Thankfully I have always been about the pvp in any mmo I have played, but do like the pve side of it as well seeing as it gives you a change from pvping all the time.

Dedish.7923:

Sigh….. did I say I want a gear treadmill ever in any of the post I have made on this topic? Did I say I was looking for x whatever the hell x is supposed to be? No I did not in any way shape or form. How do you know what GW2 will offer or will not? Are you a Anet employee? Doubtful very much. I was just agreeing with the OP that from what I have seen, read, and heard that end game content is lacking, and there feels to be no real progression once you hit 80.

If that is what Arenanet wants for the game then fine that’s their choice. Will it be the WoW dethroner or any other MMO for that matter like most GW1 fans seem to think? Likely not. Is it really bringing anything new to the genre? Not at all. Taking out the gear treadmill WHICH I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT is nothing new, the gameplay / fighting isn’t revolutionary in any way. All they have done is taking out any sort of accomplishment players might feel at 80.

Perhaps this game shouldn’t be labeled as a MMO at all then.

Like I said earlier I like the game and enjoy it and find it to be quite pleasing to the eye, but as far as any sort of replay value or reason to play at all for most mmo gamers there seems to be none. Thankfully I have always been about the pvp in any mmo I have played, but do like the pve side of it as well seeing as it gives you a change from pvping all the time.

First my context isn’t directly insult to you (If you really not care much about Gear Treadmill progression) so what’s you upset me about that. Seriously please be gone.

Second, ANet have mentioned the concept of their design before at first they announced the game. So I know they never offer that things because they did it in GW1, and they will do it the same thing in GW2, and I don’t want to string along the hope to some people who play game just want for the gear treadmills progressions

Third, while I agree that GW2 is lack of endgame contents once when you hit level 80 and there are really few challenge in the game when players can group together and zerg the contents. But I hope ArenaNet will improve it eventually. But you should realize that GW2 isn’t Stats/Gears progression, it is all about journey and character’s progression. The only Gear progression in this game (once you already get the gears that suitable with your build style) is aesthetic . This is all about the accomplishment that you can get for playing GW2 beside they took out the Gear Treadmills progression, that someone should adapt to it. And that’s the reason why GW2 is different from other tradition MMO, you can call this game as not the MMO game is fine (for you) but there are tons of progression in this game waiting players to achieve and there will be more contents in the future which no require monthly subscription and I haven’t to mindlessly play it endlessly just to achieve the whole content.

Fourth, I do not care GW2 is “WoW dethroner” why I should care the game that will slowly kill itself eventually, I never expect GW2 become the Jesus of MMO to cure cancer. And I never play GW1 before.

Dedish.7923:

Will it be the WoW dethroner or any other MMO for that matter like most GW1 fans seem to think? Likely not

I havent played GW1
Do i really care if GW2 deathrone any other game ?
Does it mean anything if the game sold 2 million copies or 9 milion ?
Does the numbers affect my enjoyment ?
Seriously …..

I’ve seen the Blood Witch in Kessex Hills wipe a few groups, generally because that is a more difficult DE to zerg because of its location. But for the most part I agree with the OP, the zerg concept just cheapens the gameplay experience. That goes for pvp also. Not sure what you can do to eliminate it though.

Red Falcon.8257:

GW2 is not a game based on the concept of “endgame”, as in being enslaved in a circular flow of repetitive grind->reward system.

Anet has been yelling for months that they were doing away with that kind of endgame and were going to give us legendaries for PvE, WvW for PvPvE guys and sPvP for pvpers.
They did.

Not happy with this formula?
You bought the wrong game for you, regardless Anet yelling this at you for years.
Guess who’s to blame.

I don’t know what game you’re playing, but its not GW2.

Endgame is literally all about farming
- The legendaries you mentioned require insane amounts of time and gold.
- Cosmetic gear is farmed through Karma etc.
- Having a higher rank in sPVP is literally just how much time you’ve farmed it for.
- Crafting is about farming the mats you haven’t accidentally collected (or buying, but thats the same with any MMO)

Even levelling is a grind – heart events; kill roughly 20 of any creature in this area, rather than kill 20 of this one type of creature and loot it. And honestly.. I could go on.

I agree whole heartedly with the OP, but I do, for some reason, still really enjoy this game!

gamingglory.2097:

But even then that is about the depth of the difficulty in a nutshell. The explorable mode dungeons and the bosses that you can encounter within them. Even then they are dungeons, but harder version of them and nothing more.

This is incorrect. EM dungeons offer multiple paths, each with their own storyline and bosses that take place after the SM story has been cleared. Case in point, when we cleared CM SM and went back in for a shot at EM, we took the first path and ended up hunting down a bunch of crazy bandits that stole some Asuran tech to get it back. The bosses were fairly challenging, though the cray cray lady was pretty easy, and the infamous 10+ mob packs were a pain to fight off but we did it without stealthing by. Frost was a pain

Though we didn’t complete them, the other two paths offered completely different stories in completely new areas of the dungeon than SM and the first path. That’s great! If you think about it, that’s 8 dungeons, each with 4 paths (SM and 3 EM) for a total of 32 different options, 24 of them geared for endgame play. Yes, some are easier than others, but there are options available to mix things up. So happy CM EM path 1 took longer than 15 minutes like SM did >.>

Try out the dungeons if you are looking for challenge.

If you are tired of zergs, roll on a less populated server.

Airien.4798:

I found this article to be great and really lay it down to those who see this game for something it’s not. This game is all about the journey to level 80 and I feel the article really points out that those who chose to breeze through the content really missed out on the meat of the game.

Try thinking outside the box and enjoy a game where you don’t need to watch your XP bar whatsoever. Enjoy the game first and think of levels as secondary, it will make the game much more appeasable to those accustomed to the past decades genre of MMO’s.

Happy huntin’.

If I would enjoy games without watching the xp bar, I’d play adventure games like uncharted, not rpgs.

Dedish.7923:

What insults me is your lack of ability to use and command the English language. It clearly effects your reading comprehension seeing as how you are taking 90% of everything I say out of context. Half the time I have no idea what your are going on about.

As far as being a wow dethroner the point I was trying to make is that this is not a “revolutionary” game as most people seem to be claiming it is. Taking the things that the majority of most MMO gamers TODAY know out of the game and having almost no progression or sense of accomplishment is only going to hinder the game.

Am I one of those people no I’m not, I’m just saying is all.

Right now, I still don’t get the context

“Nice I foresee another mmo troll community.”

Even though, you don’t care about gear treadmill as I posted above anyway, so why are you upset and think I did insult you, and what was I trolled at the first place?. It’s really annoying me, and again seriously please be gone.

And ohhh… please almost every GW2 players already know that GW2 isn’t entirely “revolutionary” game except people who still on hype train.

Another thing that confuse me that you don’t care gear progression but you are keep complaining “there is no real progression or sense of accomplishment”. The game has progression but it is not vertical progression that keep you play endlessly. It is horizontal progression, if you want something to do when you hit 80, you still have grind to get Exotic gears, Legendary gears, get more achievement point, battle in WvWvW, join tournament PVP, joining SPVP for grinding glory points, 100% map completion. Obviously it seems someone does not happy about these progressions that GW2 offers. Someone just rant, and cry out for vertical progressions that make the game have to grind endlessly to make characters become more powerful than any others that make them feel real progression and sense of accomplishment.

Arisal.9740:

How about that fire elemental in the asura starting zone :P

Maybe he needs to move to Orr lol.

That fire elemental is potentially a good example of a challenging fight. It’s not that he dishes out high damage and has high hp (both of which could be nerfed), but its because a zerg won’t work. Your’e constantly being bombarded by lesser elementals and the fire bombs falling out of the fire elemental, forcing you to actually move around and take advantage of the dodge mechanics, and even make a retreat to briefly recover before attacking again. In a standard zerg there’s so many players everyone can just stand and mash buttons till the enemy is gone since the enemy poses no significant threat.

Dedish.7923:

Taking the things that the majority of most MMO gamers TODAY know out of the game

U know the funny part Dedish ?
That a major company with 11 million subs , where looking from the november a way to fill up its empty world + create world pvp . But 11 days after the first BWE1 of GW2 , they simply copy the <<oveflow>> system , and proclain in their forums that they <<created a new techology>> and their fans went crazy , saying that <<Their agame did it again >> …. <<and its revolution of the mmo market>> …

(Are u Lucky or draykorinee ?)

Wow. I actually thought Anet was taking a look and planning to make some changes for endgame PvE but apparently not. I don’t know if I’ll continue playing this game after reading that. I miss FoW and UW from prophecies. Instead of 2 MASSIVE, cool looking, and CHALLENGING zones to explore for endgame PvE, we get a few dungeons featuring narrow hallways and cheaply tuned enemies that encourage graveyard zerging, as well as those super “challenging” open world bosses that are just stand there and press 1 like the other 30 people. I played prophecies a lot and I don’t think I ever actually 100% cleared FoW, it was always an adventure every time I wen’t in there with a group. It wasn’t a zerg and the challenge came from patience and preparation. None of that in GW2, just run it and kill things before they kill you. Leveling was really fun in this game, I loved exploring but since I got to 80 I’m finding it harder and harder to log in and play.

The bosses outside in the world sure are fun, but also very easy.
I agree.

Whenever there’s a huge Zerg the gameplay gets pretty stale.
I find that doing events with 5 or so people is much more fun.
Especially if they aren’t super strong and you get to baby them a bit.

Thing is… how do you make an open world boss difficult without resorting to cheap shots (dodge the 5 zone-wide circles within 1/4 second or get 1 hit defeated) or make it in a way that only an organised party (like a guild on voicechat) can take them out?
When you have 50 random people in a place, it’s almost impossible to do so. The problem is also that it’s too many people in one place to make things clear on WTH exactly is going on.
I guess the best thing for these events are to force the groups to split up into smaller groups. Like to be forced to defend/attack several points at the same time or else the event will fail.

DrakeWurrum.6049:

Bobby.2918:

I say give it time. Everyone and their dog is on GW2 right now so even the high numbers of enemies a DE can manage can’t defeat a player swarm. Things will slow down and DEs might surprise you. I did one on the snowy right side of Gendarren Fields and there were only three of us. We fought like lions and ultimately lost.

Except it’s supposed to be able to scale with those incredible numbers. I’m perfectly happy doing an event with 50 random people, I just don’t want the event to fall over entirely because we’re 50 random people.

The problem is when you start getting scaling like the Fire Elemental in Metrica Province or the Champions scattered throughout Queensdale and Kessex Hills. Bosses made “hard” by their hitpoints scaling through the roof, and their damage scaling such that even their basic attacks down people in one hit.

If they’re willing to cripple control classes like thieves with the Unshakable buff, maybe they should introduce some form of AoE resistance for mobs in zerged events.

Haven’t seen any challenging MMO actually.
It’s either easy mode, or grind more. Is “get more epix” really a challenge?

So TL:DR the blog post is basically

Take working MMO-formula, remove structured end-game completely = Revolution!

or

We were too lazy to make any raids. Here, have zerg-fests instead.

Wut?

Having “raid-content” while you level doesn’t really save the fact that once you hit 80, your character more or less stops from progressing. That’s what keeps people in WOW, even -Ville: that seratonin-ignited second of accomplishment.

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

Sorry, what does “Zerg” mean?

Could you give some examples of how to make things more challenging?

Running with a big group of players watching mobs hit the ground before you even have a chance to swing at them. It’s not my job to make the game more challenging, but I’d say lower the success rate and scale DE’s better, and I don’t mean more 1 shot mechanics on mobs, I mean more health, smarter AI, more problematic NPCs like the monks that heal in AC.

@OP I couldn’t agree more.

da Marek.5984:

Hey OP maybe you should change to a low-pop server

Or just during off hours, like in the middle of the night during the week.

I think in a few month we will see more events failing even during prime time, because currently everybody and their aunt are plaing, even some PvP players might actually explore the world a little and not just play PvP/WvW.

Amra.6028:

PeeWeeSweden.6341:

So TL:DR the blog post is basically

Take boring MMO-formula, replace structured end-game by fun leveling phase that has all the elements of other games before= Revolution!

Wut?

ftfy.

Actually, your “fix” highlights the problem. When the levelling phase is over, what then? I’m sure ANet’s original idea was to keep players here for more than 30 days? The “explore the world”-argument doesn’t hold at all, since it provides no progression that has any benefits to your character. So when you reach 80, it’s all over?

That is, unless you’re into that whole PVP-thing that’s not going to last very long either, since people transfer to the realms that do well, leaving the ones in the backseat now even further behind.

Edit: I may have to add that I am actually still enjoying the game, so it’s by no means “over” for me, but unless there’s something really compelling “up there”, I have no reason to stick around, do I?

There are tactics for things, the problem is pugging them.

I’ve seen the Grenth event in Orr fail numerous times because some people are doing it properly and the rest just keep trying to zerg it. The biggest failure comes in the phase with the shades. You need to stand in the purple pool on the floor to pick up a buff. Without this buff you do zero damage to the shades. A lot of people aren’t doing that, even with the others spamming in caps telling them they need to stand in the purple stuff. They just stand there bashing away merrily doing no damage at all while the rest of us get overrun with shades and the NPC we’re protecting dies.

If I took a guild group and we did this with no random people around the event experience would be completely different.

Also with the dungeons, there are tactics and ways to counter boss mechanics. If you’re graveyard zerging you’re doing it wrong.

I’m not sure what could be done about this. You could make things more unforgiving and just kill people who aren’t doing things right, but as it is there are loads of people around who are zerging again and again and then complaining that everything is too difficult.

I can think of one suggestion for dungeons at least, don’t let people run back in during a fight. Maybe they’ll learn to do something else if they have to call a wipe when people die. (Not saying remove downed, just stop you getting back in if you’re actually dead.)

That said, I’ve fixed the dungeon issue for myself already. I’m not doing any of them with a pug. The result being co-ordinated, smooth runs and a lot of fun with my guild.