Guild Wars 2

Suddenflame.2601:

People keep on talking about how they need to craft their ascended weapons. Where is the need? No where does it stated that you need to craft it. Far as I know there are several ways to gain Ascended weapons outside of crafting. If you play normally eventually you will gain an ascended weapon.

Do you need your ascended weapon right this instant?

Does the weapon provide such a large bonus in WvW that you can not possibly win without it?

You do realize that legendaries are above Ascended now in that you can choose any stat you want while being ascended quality. I don’t see anyone complaining about that and walking through LA I can literally say that Legendaries are extremely common that at least every 1/10 people have one (From what I seen so far).

It is not stated that you need the weapon nor do you need it. You want it and you want it now for no reason other then it is BiS.

Let me guess, you’ve had at least 2 precursors drop for you or have at least 2 fotm weapon skins? The fact that your saying “if you play normally, eventually you will gain an ascended weapon.” How can you even use rng as a way of justifying getting ascended items?

With laurels, tokens, and the tp as options for getting gear(other than crafting), they could’ve easily made a lot more ppl happy by letting you obtain all your ascended items by my first stated means.

Lets us obtain this gear, that when full ascended comes out will be a must to compete in wvw, in more ways than relying on luck or having to craft.

I think that’s what most ppl are upset about is having to craft it and it being time gated. My celestial gear took me over 1 month to craft every piece because of those stupid charged quartz… So now, a few months from now, I have to craft an entire new set of gear that is also time gated, more than likely ascended armor will also be gated…? Seeing as I’ve been playing this game since launch and have yet to get a precursor drop… Because rng is such a great thing.

Legendaries have and were always said that they were going to be bis. So them finally becoming bis isn’t a big deal. Legendaries themselves require a hell of a lot of effort by the player to obtain them.( they should never have let legendaries be tradeable to begin with)

Treborlavok.3504:

1 piece of gear will make no difference what so ever. But if you match up 2 players of equal skill…

1 in full exotics

1 in full ascended

The player in full ascended gear will win because they have the most/best stats…I’m talking about a wvw scenario here.

In pve, who cares about the implementation of ascended gear. Noone, it’s a “goal” for pl to shoot for. It’s when you start to look at wvw and ascended vs exotics that things get mis matched.

So in the sense of fighting players of equal skill in wvw. Your are 100% required to have full ascended gear to be able to compete.

statistically yes.

skill wise no.

i’ve met some people who already have ascendeds on an enemy team in wvw. i had nothing but exotics. this guy had full ascended. it was a tough tussle – his build was solid – but i managed to get him to the ground.

end of line.

Carlin Sanders.3587:

Namu.5712:

not sure how one set of gear constitutes an “endless gear treadmill” lol.

Do you guys even know what endless means? How about treadmill?

Hear hear.

Have gw1 fans forgotten the name of the fancy versions of armor you got on prophecies? does ‘ascended’ armor ring a bell?

exotic was designed to do a job – make top tier something that required effort so that people can actually appreciate what they have. it failed. so they had to bring in ascended to do that job. (would you salvage an ascended weapon? in comparison, would you salvage an exotic? and why?)

edit: and have we forgotten the point of why skill point scrolls exist? are we going to cry and whine when they introduce new skills into the game that seem better than the current meta? of course we will.

Except Elite Sunspear Armor was statwise no better than level 20 Canthan Armor. It was the truest form of horizontal progression. You farm mats to look pretty. Initially Gw2 did the same thing with dungeon armors. Farm tokens. Look pretty. There was no real stat gain between dungeon and non-dungeon exotics.

So yes, fancy fancy, right. Except all you got from expensive Armor were tighter abs, more cleavage or a longer blade. You didn’t really gain anything else.

People panic too much and in the end it was for nothing.First of all for 12 months we received only 6 Ascended items.Which is not what i would call a gear tread mill.Gear tread mill is when you have to upgread your armor every 2 or 4 months.In GW2 we don’t have such thing.
Second thing that i find funny is that Anet stated Ascended will be the last tier of gear.So WTF are you talking about OP?Endless tread mill?!?!?Are you kidding with me?

Now when Ascended weapons were introduced people started to panic again.Come on people calm down.It’s not such a big deal as some try to make it.Fractals are no even uncapped yet and the differrence in stats is no so high than exotic.People in no time will have their Ascended weapons.

Thrumdi.9216:

Vayne.8563:

Spiral Architect.6540:

Vayne.8563:

So a company that said literally thousands of things before launch can be called on five of them.

You keep trotting some iteration of that phrase out, Vayne, and you keep missing the point: one of the key concepts the game was marketed on was the idea of horizontal progression, without gear grind. They said it over and over again. And then they trashed the idea.

If I had known the game would turn into a “gear grind, chase the shinies so you can chase more shinies” game, I would not have bought it.

No, I don’t think it was one of the key concepts the game was marketed on. In fact in thousands of videos it was mentioned a handful of times.

Dynamic events are what this game was marketed on. Personal story was what this game was marketed on. Vertical progression quotes are few and far between in comparison. They are important to you, personally, so you latched onto those few mentions but this isn’t big big new. People trot out the same three quotes. In five years of marketing, a handful of quotes doesn’t make what this game was marketed on.

Iteration, on the other hand, was mentioned in post after post, after post. Go back through the old blog posts and see how often iteration and iterative process was mentioned, and even an entire blogpost was devoted to it. It was in virtually every post by arena net for over a year.

No, it was clear throughout the pre-launch marketing period there would be no end-game grind. (To the point where people were even complaining about that before the game even shipped).

They even had a TM’d slogan for it: Play Your Way.

Play it your way had nothing to do with end game grind. If you think it did, you weren’t following the conversation as closely as you think you did. Anet said many times what they meant by that. If you choose to ignore that, you can ignore the rest of it as well. They said you can level by WvW, or doing dungeons, or doing dynamic events, or crafting. You can choose that. That’s all that meant. Reading more into it doesn’t help your argument.

As for end game grind I clearly remember (I think it was from an AMA), Eric Flannum saying there would be things to grind for for those who enjoy that play style, in answer to a question asked about it.

And what does end game grind even mean, in a game which claimed it had no end game to begin with.

I’m not sure you are remembering everything that was said. I think you’re remembering bits and pieces in an attempt to support your argument. A lot more was said than you’re saying was said.

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

Except Elite Sunspear Armor was statwise no better than level 20 Canthan Armor. It was the truest form of horizontal progression. You farm mats to look pretty. Initially Gw2 did the same thing with dungeon armors. Farm tokens. Look pretty. There was no real stat gain between dungeon and non-dungeon exotics.

So yes, fancy fancy, right. Except all you got from expensive Armor were tighter abs, more cleavage or a longer blade. You didn’t really gain anything else.

elite sunspear. lulz, that armor was horrid on a couple professions. but going on.

As I found – and demonstrated in wvw – that having all ascended doesn’t necessarily mean you win against someone who only has exotics. moreover again is this mentality of ‘not being the best so you’re crap’ persona everyone has. In WoW it may be true but not here.

moiraine.2753:

People panic too much and in the end it was for nothing.First of all for 12 months we received only 6 Ascended items.Which is not what i would call a gear tread mill.Gear tread mill is when you have to upgread your armor every 2 or 4 months.In GW2 we don’t have such thing.
Second thing that i find funny is that Anet stated Ascended will be the last tier of gear.So WTF are you talking about OP?Endless tread mill?!?!?Are you kidding with me?

Now when Ascended weapons were introduced people started to panic again.Come on people calm down.It’s not such a big deal as some try to make it.Fractals are no even uncapped yet and the differrence in stats is no so high than exotic.People in no time will have their Ascended weapons.

It is the last tier. That’s tier. Not level.

When they raise the level cap, you will have to grind out Ascendeds all over again.

Carlin Sanders.3587:

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

Except Elite Sunspear Armor was statwise no better than level 20 Canthan Armor. It was the truest form of horizontal progression. You farm mats to look pretty. Initially Gw2 did the same thing with dungeon armors. Farm tokens. Look pretty. There was no real stat gain between dungeon and non-dungeon exotics.

So yes, fancy fancy, right. Except all you got from expensive Armor were tighter abs, more cleavage or a longer blade. You didn’t really gain anything else.

elite sunspear. lulz, that armor was horrid on a couple professions. but going on.

As I found – and demonstrated in wvw – that having all ascended doesn’t necessarily mean you win against someone who only has exotics. moreover again is this mentality of ‘not being the best so you’re crap’ persona everyone has. In WoW it may be true but not here.

Oh, of course. I don’t have an issue with ascended itself personally. My main gripe is its implementation.
There’s nothing wrong with a gear treadmill if there are different speeds and modes. But right now there’s only one. At the crafting station. And random drops hardly qualify as a method to acquire anything.

Treborlavok.3504:

Draknar.5748:

Bread.7516:

this…seriously…this.

and when ascended armor comes out, ascended WILL be the gear check in the future. (the total difference is huge)

Uhm, what gear check are you talking about? I’ve run PUGs in almost every dungeon, and almost every path with full greens/yellows (on alts) and had no issues. Not once has anyone ever asked me to ping my gear running dungeons and I’ve yet to have our group fail on anything because of it. If I was looking to do FoTM 30+, sure I could see the gear check requirement, but the people that do FoTM 30+ are a very small minority of the playerbase.

Perhaps ascended gear will affect your elite speed dungeon run/high level FoTM groups, but I can tell you that 95% of the players will have no issue running every bit of content with the armor they can get now.

This isn’t WoW, there are no gear checks…only kittens gearcheck people in GW2 for anything that isn’t high level FoTM or dungeon speed runs, and if you’re the kind of person that farms dungeons and runs high level FoTM then odds are you are the same person that wants a gear treadmill anyway and are looking forward to the ascended tier. It will affect no one else.

1 piece of gear will make no difference what so ever. But if you match up 2 players of equal skill…

1 in full exotics

1 in full ascended

The player in full ascended gear will win because they have the most/best stats…I’m talking about a wvw scenario here.

In pve, who cares about the implementation of ascended gear. Noone, it’s a “goal” for pl to shoot for. It’s when you start to look at wvw and ascended vs exotics that things get mis matched.

So in the sense of fighting players of equal skill in wvw. Your are 100% required to have full ascended gear to be able to compete.

The chances of 1 on 1 fight in WvWvW is pretty low, then the chances of it being someone being a real 80 is not 100% chance, then it being someone with ascended gear, still really low. Then the chances it is someone of equal skill to you, still low, and then the chances that his dice are rolled always higher than yours to make him hit harder, still low. Then taking into account that the damage of ascend weapon is about 5% more over exotic.

Taking in the whole picture, there is a lot of low chance stuff to happen all at once to make the small increase of ascend over exotics have to really matter.

Equal skilled people, one wearing ascended and one wearing exotic does not mean an automatic win for the ascended wearing player will win, the difference in gear is so small, that the dice rolls will play an even bigger role in that fight then the gear will.

Thrumdi.9216:

moiraine.2753:

People panic too much and in the end it was for nothing.First of all for 12 months we received only 6 Ascended items.Which is not what i would call a gear tread mill.Gear tread mill is when you have to upgread your armor every 2 or 4 months.In GW2 we don’t have such thing.
Second thing that i find funny is that Anet stated Ascended will be the last tier of gear.So WTF are you talking about OP?Endless tread mill?!?!?Are you kidding with me?

Now when Ascended weapons were introduced people started to panic again.Come on people calm down.It’s not such a big deal as some try to make it.Fractals are no even uncapped yet and the differrence in stats is no so high than exotic.People in no time will have their Ascended weapons.

It is the last tier. That’s tier. Not level.

When they raise the level cap, you will have to grind out Ascendeds all over again.

Maybe, maybe not, we do not know that yet. Perhaps they’ll make ascended gear level with you, and then they will have different looking ascended gear to get at the new level cap that will have the same stats as your ascended gear that leveled with you.

you know, i can wear exotic gear all day and steam roll 90% of people in wvw. so, yes. im complaining about a 10% situation. but the thing is, it has nothing to do with the 10% scenario, it’s purely the principal of having such a gear treadmill which kitten es people off.

Carlin Sanders.3587:

Have gw1 fans forgotten the name of the fancy versions of armor you got on prophecies? does ‘ascended’ armor ring a bell?

exotic was designed to do a job – make top tier something that required effort so that people can actually appreciate what they have. it failed. so they had to bring in ascended to do that job. (would you salvage an ascended weapon? in comparison, would you salvage an exotic? and why?)

edit: and have we forgotten the point of why skill point scrolls exist? are we going to cry and whine when they introduce new skills into the game that seem better than the current meta? of course we will.

I wish people would stop spreading disinformation about GW1 already. 15k GW1 armor had the SAME stats as 1,5k and the SAME as obsidian or any other max armor.
Legendary had the SAME stats as exotic. Ascended was not needed in any way and goes against everything explained in numerous blog posts and interviews over the course of several years.
And no i wouldnt salvage my exotic weapon if it was max stat. Exotics required enough effort for most people. Especially if you wanted to have a fully geared character or god forbid alts.

Ascended was not brought in to do “a job”. It was brought in to please a subset of players that were complaining or leaving in droves – the same people that wanted GW2 to be more like WoW.

Unfortunately these same players can not be pleased. Ever. Once they have their chars geared out in ascended they will either demand new shinies again or leave.

ANET is doing the same 2 stupid things most companies in the last decade tried to do: trying to cater to everyone and trying to do what WoW does best.

SonicTHI.3217:

I wish people would stop spreading disinformation about GW1 already. 15k GW1 armor had the SAME stats as 1,5k and the SAME as obsidian or any other max armor.
Legendary had the SAME stats as exotic. Ascended was not needed in any way and goes against everything explained in numerous blog posts and interviews over the course of several years.
And no i wouldnt salvage my exotic weapon if it was max stat. Exotics required enough effort for most people. Especially if you wanted to have a fully geared character or god forbid alts.

Ascended was not brought in to do “a job”. It was brought in to please a subset of players that were complaining or leaving in droves – the same people that wanted GW2 to be more like WoW.

Unfortunately these same players can not be pleased. Ever. Once they have their chars geared out in ascended they will either demand new shinies again or leave.

ANET is doing the same 2 stupid things most companies in the last decade tried to do: trying to cater to everyone and trying to do what WoW does best.

so you’re argument there is basically about quality difference. why not complain about the difference between normal items and ascended then, or fine and exotic? and as for exotics if it was something i didn’t have a use for i would salvage it(whats better than buying ectos? free ectos.) or sell it on TP if it was something like berserkers heavy armor. i only made what i would use and just lived with what i had. ascended i would hold onto instead. that kind of difference.

and as for appealing to WoW players i’d say yea and nay.

I sense much anger in you young one. that is good. you shall need it for the trials ahead of you.

Pray For Kosmos.5849:

you know, i can wear exotic gear all day and steam roll 90% of people in wvw. so, yes. im complaining about a 10% situation. but the thing is, it has nothing to do with the 10% scenario, it’s purely the principal of having such a gear treadmill which kitten es people off.

and once again we refer to the fear of ‘adding more tiers to infinity.’ a fear that people seem to ignore the answer to strangely enough, and make up their own in a frenzied paranoia.

the only additional tier they would add would be ‘legendary.’ so you people finally have your ‘final final final’ tier of equipment – since legendaries will be updated to match top tier gear. speaking of which, it will be very interesting to see how legendary trinkets will turn out. (bloodstone earrings lul. or dreamer unicorn rings. double lulz.)

now stop with this whole gearmill nonsense. keep calm and carry on.

morrolan.9608:

Thrumdi.9216:

We’ll never know, but I assume they panicked and lost faith in their original vision of the game.

I would say undoubtedly this is what happened. But I’ve also said before in other threads since November the fortnightly content updates have started. So why do we need the ascended weapon grind and presumably the ascended armor grind to keep us playing now?

Maybe they have metrics showing the player base was declining again but if so I would say thats more to do with the quality of the living world updates.

Bingo.

Thats why i hoped, that when they get their crap together they will scratch whole ascended and dismiss it for whats it was, panic reaction, everyone makes mistakes, but no, they are determined to continue.

SonicTHI.3217:

Carlin Sanders.3587:

Have gw1 fans forgotten the name of the fancy versions of armor you got on prophecies? does ‘ascended’ armor ring a bell?

exotic was designed to do a job – make top tier something that required effort so that people can actually appreciate what they have. it failed. so they had to bring in ascended to do that job. (would you salvage an ascended weapon? in comparison, would you salvage an exotic? and why?)

edit: and have we forgotten the point of why skill point scrolls exist? are we going to cry and whine when they introduce new skills into the game that seem better than the current meta? of course we will.

I wish people would stop spreading disinformation about GW1 already. 15k GW1 armor had the SAME stats as 1,5k and the SAME as obsidian or any other max armor.
Legendary had the SAME stats as exotic. Ascended was not needed in any way and goes against everything explained in numerous blog posts and interviews over the course of several years.
And no i wouldnt salvage my exotic weapon if it was max stat. Exotics required enough effort for most people. Especially if you wanted to have a fully geared character or god forbid alts.

Ascended was not brought in to do “a job”. It was brought in to please a subset of players that were complaining or leaving in droves – the same people that wanted GW2 to be more like WoW.

Unfortunately these same players can not be pleased. Ever. Once they have their chars geared out in ascended they will either demand new shinies again or leave.

ANET is doing the same 2 stupid things most companies in the last decade tried to do: trying to cater to everyone and trying to do what WoW does best.

I wish Guild Wars 1 players would stop spreading misinformation, like that there was no grind in Guild Wars that affected your character’s power. That’s just wrong. It wasn’t gear, sure, but then, there were plenty of skills that you had to level through rep, that were needed for some builds, like imbagon. Or do you not remember people in Guild Wars 1 looking for groups of r8 ursan?

Vayne.8563:

SonicTHI.3217:

Carlin Sanders.3587:

Have gw1 fans forgotten the name of the fancy versions of armor you got on prophecies? does ‘ascended’ armor ring a bell?

exotic was designed to do a job – make top tier something that required effort so that people can actually appreciate what they have. it failed. so they had to bring in ascended to do that job. (would you salvage an ascended weapon? in comparison, would you salvage an exotic? and why?)

edit: and have we forgotten the point of why skill point scrolls exist? are we going to cry and whine when they introduce new skills into the game that seem better than the current meta? of course we will.

I wish people would stop spreading disinformation about GW1 already. 15k GW1 armor had the SAME stats as 1,5k and the SAME as obsidian or any other max armor.
Legendary had the SAME stats as exotic. Ascended was not needed in any way and goes against everything explained in numerous blog posts and interviews over the course of several years.
And no i wouldnt salvage my exotic weapon if it was max stat. Exotics required enough effort for most people. Especially if you wanted to have a fully geared character or god forbid alts.

Ascended was not brought in to do “a job”. It was brought in to please a subset of players that were complaining or leaving in droves – the same people that wanted GW2 to be more like WoW.

Unfortunately these same players can not be pleased. Ever. Once they have their chars geared out in ascended they will either demand new shinies again or leave.

ANET is doing the same 2 stupid things most companies in the last decade tried to do: trying to cater to everyone and trying to do what WoW does best.

I wish Guild Wars 1 players would stop spreading misinformation, like that there was no grind in Guild Wars that affected your character’s power. That’s just wrong. It wasn’t gear, sure, but then, there were plenty of skills that you had to level through rep, that were needed for some builds, like imbagon. Or do you not remember people in Guild Wars 1 looking for groups of r8 ursan?

You really are good at that strawman thing. Where in the post you quoted does he make any claim that there was no grind in GW1 ?

Vayne.8563:

SonicTHI.3217:

Carlin Sanders.3587:

Have gw1 fans forgotten the name of the fancy versions of armor you got on prophecies? does ‘ascended’ armor ring a bell?

exotic was designed to do a job – make top tier something that required effort so that people can actually appreciate what they have. it failed. so they had to bring in ascended to do that job. (would you salvage an ascended weapon? in comparison, would you salvage an exotic? and why?)

edit: and have we forgotten the point of why skill point scrolls exist? are we going to cry and whine when they introduce new skills into the game that seem better than the current meta? of course we will.

I wish people would stop spreading disinformation about GW1 already. 15k GW1 armor had the SAME stats as 1,5k and the SAME as obsidian or any other max armor.
Legendary had the SAME stats as exotic. Ascended was not needed in any way and goes against everything explained in numerous blog posts and interviews over the course of several years.
And no i wouldnt salvage my exotic weapon if it was max stat. Exotics required enough effort for most people. Especially if you wanted to have a fully geared character or god forbid alts.

Ascended was not brought in to do “a job”. It was brought in to please a subset of players that were complaining or leaving in droves – the same people that wanted GW2 to be more like WoW.

Unfortunately these same players can not be pleased. Ever. Once they have their chars geared out in ascended they will either demand new shinies again or leave.

ANET is doing the same 2 stupid things most companies in the last decade tried to do: trying to cater to everyone and trying to do what WoW does best.

I wish Guild Wars 1 players would stop spreading misinformation, like that there was no grind in Guild Wars that affected your character’s power. That’s just wrong. It wasn’t gear, sure, but then, there were plenty of skills that you had to level through rep, that were needed for some builds, like imbagon. Or do you not remember people in Guild Wars 1 looking for groups of r8 ursan?

And I wish the white knight GW2 fanboys would stop posting misinformation. None of the PVE only skills needed a high rep to be useful for the vast majority of the playerbase. You got high enough level just by playing. You are using a very small subset of people to make an argument in your favor. No PVE skills were ever needed to complete any content. Most of them got nerfed extremely fast as well. Take of your tunnelvision glasses for once

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

SonicTHI.3217:

Carlin Sanders.3587:

Have gw1 fans forgotten the name of the fancy versions of armor you got on prophecies? does ‘ascended’ armor ring a bell?

exotic was designed to do a job – make top tier something that required effort so that people can actually appreciate what they have. it failed. so they had to bring in ascended to do that job. (would you salvage an ascended weapon? in comparison, would you salvage an exotic? and why?)

edit: and have we forgotten the point of why skill point scrolls exist? are we going to cry and whine when they introduce new skills into the game that seem better than the current meta? of course we will.

I wish people would stop spreading disinformation about GW1 already. 15k GW1 armor had the SAME stats as 1,5k and the SAME as obsidian or any other max armor.
Legendary had the SAME stats as exotic. Ascended was not needed in any way and goes against everything explained in numerous blog posts and interviews over the course of several years.
And no i wouldnt salvage my exotic weapon if it was max stat. Exotics required enough effort for most people. Especially if you wanted to have a fully geared character or god forbid alts.

Ascended was not brought in to do “a job”. It was brought in to please a subset of players that were complaining or leaving in droves – the same people that wanted GW2 to be more like WoW.

Unfortunately these same players can not be pleased. Ever. Once they have their chars geared out in ascended they will either demand new shinies again or leave.

ANET is doing the same 2 stupid things most companies in the last decade tried to do: trying to cater to everyone and trying to do what WoW does best.

I wish Guild Wars 1 players would stop spreading misinformation, like that there was no grind in Guild Wars that affected your character’s power. That’s just wrong. It wasn’t gear, sure, but then, there were plenty of skills that you had to level through rep, that were needed for some builds, like imbagon. Or do you not remember people in Guild Wars 1 looking for groups of r8 ursan?

You really are good at that strawman thing. Where in the post you quoted does he make any claim that there was no grind in GW1 ?

I didn’t say he did, but since he’s accusing people of spreading misinformation, I was pointing out that lots of Guild Wars 1 players were saying there was no vertical progression in Guild Wars 1, which isn’t quite true. Whether he specifically states it or not is not relevant…since I didn’t specify him. I just said Guild Wars 1 players.

And yes, I’m very good at straw men. lol

Conner.4702:

Vayne.8563:

SonicTHI.3217:

Carlin Sanders.3587:

Have gw1 fans forgotten the name of the fancy versions of armor you got on prophecies? does ‘ascended’ armor ring a bell?

exotic was designed to do a job – make top tier something that required effort so that people can actually appreciate what they have. it failed. so they had to bring in ascended to do that job. (would you salvage an ascended weapon? in comparison, would you salvage an exotic? and why?)

edit: and have we forgotten the point of why skill point scrolls exist? are we going to cry and whine when they introduce new skills into the game that seem better than the current meta? of course we will.

I wish people would stop spreading disinformation about GW1 already. 15k GW1 armor had the SAME stats as 1,5k and the SAME as obsidian or any other max armor.
Legendary had the SAME stats as exotic. Ascended was not needed in any way and goes against everything explained in numerous blog posts and interviews over the course of several years.
And no i wouldnt salvage my exotic weapon if it was max stat. Exotics required enough effort for most people. Especially if you wanted to have a fully geared character or god forbid alts.

Ascended was not brought in to do “a job”. It was brought in to please a subset of players that were complaining or leaving in droves – the same people that wanted GW2 to be more like WoW.

Unfortunately these same players can not be pleased. Ever. Once they have their chars geared out in ascended they will either demand new shinies again or leave.

ANET is doing the same 2 stupid things most companies in the last decade tried to do: trying to cater to everyone and trying to do what WoW does best.

I wish Guild Wars 1 players would stop spreading misinformation, like that there was no grind in Guild Wars that affected your character’s power. That’s just wrong. It wasn’t gear, sure, but then, there were plenty of skills that you had to level through rep, that were needed for some builds, like imbagon. Or do you not remember people in Guild Wars 1 looking for groups of r8 ursan?

And I wish the white knight GW2 fanboys would stop posting misinformation. None of the PVE only skills needed a high rep to be useful for the vast majority of the playerbase. You got high enough level just by playing. You are using a very small subset of people to make an argument in your favor. No PVE skills were ever needed to complete any content. Most of them got nerfed extremely fast as well. Take of your tunnelvision glasses for once

Only if you completely ignored the meta. Only if you didn’t want a permasin or an imabagon…which became required to get groups for certain content. Try getting a group for DOA without an imbagon paragon at some point.

Arguably those skills were far more required in GW 1 than ascended gear is in GW 2.

Mada.5319:

Is it really that hard? I mean, I log on and do my daily however I want and I get ascended gear out of it. I don’t call that a grind. It’s time gated yeah, but its not like it’s such a major stat buff that I can’t get groups or I’ll die without it….

Its not hard or easy, it just shouldn’t be there, because we were told when we bought the game it wouldn’t be there.

I personally do not bother playing this game anymore, because its not the same game i was sold.

I do keep tabs on the forum in hopes someone will take over and steer it back to the original direction, i know one can dream right…

Dante.1508:

Mada.5319:

Is it really that hard? I mean, I log on and do my daily however I want and I get ascended gear out of it. I don’t call that a grind. It’s time gated yeah, but its not like it’s such a major stat buff that I can’t get groups or I’ll die without it….

Its not hard or easy, it just shouldn’t be there, because we were told when we bought the game it wouldn’t be there.

I personally do not bother playing this game anymore, because its not the same game i was sold.

I do keep tabs on the forum in hopes someone will take over and steer it back to the original direction, i know one can dream right…

It won’t happen. And I agree with you, we were told that it wouldn’t happen….but then reality happened and they realized it wasn’t working the first way. Sad, but that’s how it is. Too many people playing MMOs are programmed by other MMOs.

Vayne.8563:

Conner.4702:

Vayne.8563:

SonicTHI.3217:

Carlin Sanders.3587:

Have gw1 fans forgotten the name of the fancy versions of armor you got on prophecies? does ‘ascended’ armor ring a bell?

exotic was designed to do a job – make top tier something that required effort so that people can actually appreciate what they have. it failed. so they had to bring in ascended to do that job. (would you salvage an ascended weapon? in comparison, would you salvage an exotic? and why?)

edit: and have we forgotten the point of why skill point scrolls exist? are we going to cry and whine when they introduce new skills into the game that seem better than the current meta? of course we will.

I wish people would stop spreading disinformation about GW1 already. 15k GW1 armor had the SAME stats as 1,5k and the SAME as obsidian or any other max armor.
Legendary had the SAME stats as exotic. Ascended was not needed in any way and goes against everything explained in numerous blog posts and interviews over the course of several years.
And no i wouldnt salvage my exotic weapon if it was max stat. Exotics required enough effort for most people. Especially if you wanted to have a fully geared character or god forbid alts.

Ascended was not brought in to do “a job”. It was brought in to please a subset of players that were complaining or leaving in droves – the same people that wanted GW2 to be more like WoW.

Unfortunately these same players can not be pleased. Ever. Once they have their chars geared out in ascended they will either demand new shinies again or leave.

ANET is doing the same 2 stupid things most companies in the last decade tried to do: trying to cater to everyone and trying to do what WoW does best.

I wish Guild Wars 1 players would stop spreading misinformation, like that there was no grind in Guild Wars that affected your character’s power. That’s just wrong. It wasn’t gear, sure, but then, there were plenty of skills that you had to level through rep, that were needed for some builds, like imbagon. Or do you not remember people in Guild Wars 1 looking for groups of r8 ursan?

And I wish the white knight GW2 fanboys would stop posting misinformation. None of the PVE only skills needed a high rep to be useful for the vast majority of the playerbase. You got high enough level just by playing. You are using a very small subset of people to make an argument in your favor. No PVE skills were ever needed to complete any content. Most of them got nerfed extremely fast as well. Take of your tunnelvision glasses for once

Only if you completely ignored the meta. Only if you didn’t want a permasin or an imabagon…which became required to get groups for certain content. Try getting a group for DOA without an imbagon paragon at some point.

Arguably those skills were far more required in GW 1 than ascended gear is in GW 2.

Sometimes I wonder if you even know what you are talking about.
And you are contunially pointing at those two specific builds (even in other threads).
Where it was the grind for the permasin?
And where for the Imbagon?
Prove your statements please.

Becausa as far I know:
1. PvE only skills. (not even a single rank skill needed for the permasin btw)
2. Even at the lowest rank every skill worked.
3. The skills bonus gained “farming points” in many cases was ridiculously low.
4. The middle rank (easily achievable) often offered the same stats of the (extremaly grindy) top rank .

So what you were talking about again?

Erick Alastor.3917:

Vayne.8563:

Conner.4702:

Vayne.8563:

SonicTHI.3217:

Carlin Sanders.3587:

Have gw1 fans forgotten the name of the fancy versions of armor you got on prophecies? does ‘ascended’ armor ring a bell?

exotic was designed to do a job – make top tier something that required effort so that people can actually appreciate what they have. it failed. so they had to bring in ascended to do that job. (would you salvage an ascended weapon? in comparison, would you salvage an exotic? and why?)

edit: and have we forgotten the point of why skill point scrolls exist? are we going to cry and whine when they introduce new skills into the game that seem better than the current meta? of course we will.

I wish people would stop spreading disinformation about GW1 already. 15k GW1 armor had the SAME stats as 1,5k and the SAME as obsidian or any other max armor.
Legendary had the SAME stats as exotic. Ascended was not needed in any way and goes against everything explained in numerous blog posts and interviews over the course of several years.
And no i wouldnt salvage my exotic weapon if it was max stat. Exotics required enough effort for most people. Especially if you wanted to have a fully geared character or god forbid alts.

Ascended was not brought in to do “a job”. It was brought in to please a subset of players that were complaining or leaving in droves – the same people that wanted GW2 to be more like WoW.

Unfortunately these same players can not be pleased. Ever. Once they have their chars geared out in ascended they will either demand new shinies again or leave.

ANET is doing the same 2 stupid things most companies in the last decade tried to do: trying to cater to everyone and trying to do what WoW does best.

I wish Guild Wars 1 players would stop spreading misinformation, like that there was no grind in Guild Wars that affected your character’s power. That’s just wrong. It wasn’t gear, sure, but then, there were plenty of skills that you had to level through rep, that were needed for some builds, like imbagon. Or do you not remember people in Guild Wars 1 looking for groups of r8 ursan?

And I wish the white knight GW2 fanboys would stop posting misinformation. None of the PVE only skills needed a high rep to be useful for the vast majority of the playerbase. You got high enough level just by playing. You are using a very small subset of people to make an argument in your favor. No PVE skills were ever needed to complete any content. Most of them got nerfed extremely fast as well. Take of your tunnelvision glasses for once

Only if you completely ignored the meta. Only if you didn’t want a permasin or an imabagon…which became required to get groups for certain content. Try getting a group for DOA without an imbagon paragon at some point.

Arguably those skills were far more required in GW 1 than ascended gear is in GW 2.

Sometimes I wonder if you even know what you are talking about.
And you are contunially pointing at those two specific builds (even in other threads).
Where it was the grind for the permasin?
And where for the Imbagon?
Prove your statements please.

Becausa as far I know:
1. PvE only skills. (not even a single rank skill needed for the permasin btw)
2. Even at the lowest rank every skill worked.
3. The skills bonus gained “farming points” in many cases was ridiculously low.
4. The middle rank (easily achievable) often offered the same stats of the (extremaly grindy) top rank .

So what you were talking about again?

Rank 8 ursans required rank 8 ursans.

People who wanted to run imbagon, ALWAYS wanted to get their luxon/kurzick points up, because 4 seconds wasn’t enough for hard mode DOA and groups wanted more. If you weren’t playing then, then I guess you didn’t see it.

I’m sure the permasin used the Sunspear skill and that it was much better/more effective at the higher level.

And people leveled up stuff like pain inverter and technobabble and necrosis too. You can deny it all you want, but people felt compelled to level that stuff, because it could be better/stronger/more powerful. Not just one or two people, either.

Vayne.8563:

Rank 8 ursans required rank 8 ursans.

People who wanted to run imbagon, ALWAYS wanted to get their luxon/kurzick points up, because 4 seconds wasn’t enough for hard mode DOA and groups wanted more. If you weren’t playing then, then I guess you didn’t see it.

I’m sure the permasin used the Sunspear skill and that it was much better/more effective at the higher level.

And people leveled up stuff like pain inverter and technobabble and necrosis too. You can deny it all you want, but people felt compelled to level that stuff, because it could be better/stronger/more powerful. Not just one or two people, either.

4s instead of (maxed) 6s
About permasin If you’re talking about “Intensity” the same applies to this skill or even to technobabble or pain inverter.
All of them where effective even at the lowest rank, moreover their max effect was not reached at the top rank but right in the middle one (easy to “farm” if you were willing to).

Btw, in this thread we are talking about “vertical progression”.
You can counter a skill with another skill, you can obtain best results using different types of build depending on the situation.
At some point anet, who said that did not intend to work on an hard mode, will have to lock content behind gear.
This is a totally different problem here.
We are not talking about 1-2s of difference of a single skill and the fact that few elite players will demand you a clearly useless top rank.
We are talking of tens of percentile points that work on their own, with 0 effort/skill required to the players (unless you do not intend grinding a proof of skill).

Erick Alastor.3917:

Vayne.8563:

Rank 8 ursans required rank 8 ursans.

People who wanted to run imbagon, ALWAYS wanted to get their luxon/kurzick points up, because 4 seconds wasn’t enough for hard mode DOA and groups wanted more. If you weren’t playing then, then I guess you didn’t see it.

I’m sure the permasin used the Sunspear skill and that it was much better/more effective at the higher level.

And people leveled up stuff like pain inverter and technobabble and necrosis too. You can deny it all you want, but people felt compelled to level that stuff, because it could be better/stronger/more powerful. Not just one or two people, either.

4s instead of (maxed) 6s
About permasin If you’re talking about “Intensity” the same applies to this skill or even to technobabble or pain inverter.
All of them where effective even at the lowest rank, moreover their max effect was not reached at the top rank but right in the middle one (easy to “farm” if you were willing to).

Btw, in this thread we are talking about “vertical progression”.
You can counter a skill with another skill, you can obtain best results using different types of build depending on the situation.
At some point anet, who said that did not intend to work on an hard mode, will have to lock content behind gear.
This is a totally different problem here.
We are not talking about 1-2s of difference of a single skill and the fact that few elite players will demand you a clearly useless top rank.
We are talking of tens of percentile points that work on their own, with 0 effort/skill required to the players (unless you do not intend grinding a proof of skill).

Why do you think PvE only skills were limited to 3 per bar? Because they were arguably the most powerful skills in the game. Introduction of those skills completely trivialized some of the hardest content in the game.

But the real issue comes from the idea that people didn’t feel pressured to level those skills. I felt far more pressure to level those skills than I do to get an ascended weapon. They different in power I get from an ascended weapon isn’t nearly as great as the difference in power in leveling those skills.

Take something like “Save Yourselve’s”. Here’s a shout that allows you to mitigate 90% of all damage in the game…not just to you, but to your entire party. Do you think a 33% longer duration on that….33%!…isn’t going to make a HUGE difference.

I think you’re either remembering wrong, or you’re being completely disingenuous.

Let’s take a poll. How many people would rather mitigate 90% of the damage their party takes (which could be kept up almost all the time), or like 10% higher stats?

I don’t think there’s much contest here.

hah just wait until you have to craft 6 ascended armour pieces & trinkets for each character. 100 pages that thread will be.

Space.8053:

hah just wait until you have to craft 6 ascended armour pieces & trinkets for each character. 100 pages that thread will be.

Now now, that line of thinking is heavily discouraged.

And what you should have said that if you grinded for the past YEAR crafting 1 ascended weapon wasnt grindy at all

Anyway, i think ill start to farm….popcorns, will need a lot of those

Vayne.8563:

Erick Alastor.3917:

Vayne.8563:

Rank 8 ursans required rank 8 ursans.

People who wanted to run imbagon, ALWAYS wanted to get their luxon/kurzick points up, because 4 seconds wasn’t enough for hard mode DOA and groups wanted more. If you weren’t playing then, then I guess you didn’t see it.

I’m sure the permasin used the Sunspear skill and that it was much better/more effective at the higher level.

And people leveled up stuff like pain inverter and technobabble and necrosis too. You can deny it all you want, but people felt compelled to level that stuff, because it could be better/stronger/more powerful. Not just one or two people, either.

4s instead of (maxed) 6s
About permasin If you’re talking about “Intensity” the same applies to this skill or even to technobabble or pain inverter.
All of them where effective even at the lowest rank, moreover their max effect was not reached at the top rank but right in the middle one (easy to “farm” if you were willing to).

Btw, in this thread we are talking about “vertical progression”.
You can counter a skill with another skill, you can obtain best results using different types of build depending on the situation.
At some point anet, who said that did not intend to work on an hard mode, will have to lock content behind gear.
This is a totally different problem here.
We are not talking about 1-2s of difference of a single skill and the fact that few elite players will demand you a clearly useless top rank.
We are talking of tens of percentile points that work on their own, with 0 effort/skill required to the players (unless you do not intend grinding a proof of skill).

Why do you think PvE only skills were limited to 3 per bar? Because they were arguably the most powerful skills in the game. Introduction of those skills completely trivialized some of the hardest content in the game.

But the real issue comes from the idea that people didn’t feel pressured to level those skills. I felt far more pressure to level those skills than I do to get an ascended weapon. They different in power I get from an ascended weapon isn’t nearly as great as the difference in power in leveling those skills.

Take something like “Save Yourselve’s”. Here’s a shout that allows you to mitigate 90% of all damage in the game…not just to you, but to your entire party. Do you think a 33% longer duration on that….33%!…isn’t going to make a HUGE difference.

I think you’re either remembering wrong, or you’re being completely disingenuous.

Let’s take a poll. How many people would rather mitigate 90% of the damage their party takes (which could be kept up almost all the time), or like 10% higher stats?

I don’t think there’s much contest here.

Wrong again, more or lesser than 80% reduction but only for direct damage type.
And the 33% you are talking about is STILL 2 KITTEN SECONDS. AND ONLY 1S if you have not just started to play.
If you want to argue that SY is overpowered I can agree (even if we have to remember that every class can access to that skill), but trying to convince players that you had to grind for it… Vayne please :S

Just a FYI for those who haven’t made and played a few days on their ascended yet, I find the upgrade in power to be easily noticable from my time playing with exotic weapons.

Vayne.8563:

So you’re saying NO ONE complained on any forum about the grind for levels in Luxon or Kurzick. There wasn’t one complaint. There wasn’t any complaint about lightbringer ranks. People didn’t grind all weekend on special bonus weekends, running that stupid quest in the sulfurous wastes, just to grind out the levels to their lightbringer title.

I mean, no one ever did any fast faction farming…that’s FFF in the Guild Wars 1 wiki.

No one felt obligated and no one complained.

Right.

I never said that.
What I’m saying is that, in my opinion, people who complained about that had the right to do so, but I felt that there was almost no reasons to do it.
I would compare those complaints to complaints about legendaries being too difficult to craft ‘cause of rng (pre-stats doping).
On the contrary people complaining on this forum, not only have the right to do so, but they also have a real reason to do it.
+20-30% of stats everywhere/everytime is not something optional, and the time spent to get that bonus is simply absurd (because of grinding/gating/and the"slow release" of items).
(Always in my opnion:)
Should people complain because of ascended gap right now? Maybe not.
Should people complain about ascended because of their implications? Yes.
Why? Because ascended are:
- Not alts friendly.
- Not builds friendly.
- Not “play the way you want” to naturally obtain your gear.
*Why don’t implement them exactly like exotics? (with a slightly higher request in time)
- A possible requirment for higher contents (because of numbers).
- (to quote George Carlin) bad for ya :P

Vayne.8563:

Spiral Architect.6540:

Vayne.8563:

So a company that said literally thousands of things before launch can be called on five of them.

You keep trotting some iteration of that phrase out, Vayne, and you keep missing the point: one of the key concepts the game was marketed on was the idea of horizontal progression, without gear grind. They said it over and over again. And then they trashed the idea.

If I had known the game would turn into a “gear grind, chase the shinies so you can chase more shinies” game, I would not have bought it.

No, I don’t think it was one of the key concepts the game was marketed on. In fact in thousands of videos it was mentioned a handful of times.

Dynamic events are what this game was marketed on. Personal story was what this game was marketed on. Vertical progression quotes are few and far between in comparison. They are important to you, personally, so you latched onto those few mentions but this isn’t big big new. People trot out the same three quotes. In five years of marketing, a handful of quotes doesn’t make what this game was marketed on.

Iteration, on the other hand, was mentioned in post after post, after post. Go back through the old blog posts and see how often iteration and iterative process was mentioned, and even an entire blogpost was devoted to it. It was in virtually every post by arena net for over a year.

It would be easy to believe what you do if you didn’t understand what a manifesto is and how it functions in an organization. And, you miss the marketing message entirely. It was not marketed on DE’s. It was marketed, heavily, on being a “new” kind of MMO. They delineated several key features where they would be new and different. Those aspects are mentioned specifically in the manifesto and related pre-release documents.

Perhaps you don’t understand how companies work. They don’t just say random things at random times, and in random places. They have a message and they are constantly aware that they need to communicate a consistent marketing message. And, Anet did this beautifully. I know exactly what comprised their new kind of MMO, by what they specifically said, and a gear grind wasn’t a part of it.

BTW, I’m in a profession that uses iterators daily. The process of iteration is usually about moving toward a goal by making minute changes. It is not a process about making 180 degree turns from a stated goal. That’s why no attempt at obfuscation will succeed with this. Anet communicated a clear message, then did something 180 degrees from their communicated message. People, well, most people, notice a problem with stuff like that.

Conner.4702:

Vayne.8563:

SonicTHI.3217:

Carlin Sanders.3587:

Have gw1 fans forgotten the name of the fancy versions of armor you got on prophecies? does ‘ascended’ armor ring a bell?

exotic was designed to do a job – make top tier something that required effort so that people can actually appreciate what they have. it failed. so they had to bring in ascended to do that job. (would you salvage an ascended weapon? in comparison, would you salvage an exotic? and why?)

edit: and have we forgotten the point of why skill point scrolls exist? are we going to cry and whine when they introduce new skills into the game that seem better than the current meta? of course we will.

I wish people would stop spreading disinformation about GW1 already. 15k GW1 armor had the SAME stats as 1,5k and the SAME as obsidian or any other max armor.
Legendary had the SAME stats as exotic. Ascended was not needed in any way and goes against everything explained in numerous blog posts and interviews over the course of several years.
And no i wouldnt salvage my exotic weapon if it was max stat. Exotics required enough effort for most people. Especially if you wanted to have a fully geared character or god forbid alts.

Ascended was not brought in to do “a job”. It was brought in to please a subset of players that were complaining or leaving in droves – the same people that wanted GW2 to be more like WoW.

Unfortunately these same players can not be pleased. Ever. Once they have their chars geared out in ascended they will either demand new shinies again or leave.

ANET is doing the same 2 stupid things most companies in the last decade tried to do: trying to cater to everyone and trying to do what WoW does best.

I wish Guild Wars 1 players would stop spreading misinformation, like that there was no grind in Guild Wars that affected your character’s power. That’s just wrong. It wasn’t gear, sure, but then, there were plenty of skills that you had to level through rep, that were needed for some builds, like imbagon. Or do you not remember people in Guild Wars 1 looking for groups of r8 ursan?

And I wish the white knight GW2 fanboys would stop posting misinformation. None of the PVE only skills needed a high rep to be useful for the vast majority of the playerbase. You got high enough level just by playing. You are using a very small subset of people to make an argument in your favor. No PVE skills were ever needed to complete any content. Most of them got nerfed extremely fast as well. Take of your tunnelvision glasses for once

You just described ascended gear here.

Erick Alastor.3917:

Vayne.8563:

So you’re saying NO ONE complained on any forum about the grind for levels in Luxon or Kurzick. There wasn’t one complaint. There wasn’t any complaint about lightbringer ranks. People didn’t grind all weekend on special bonus weekends, running that stupid quest in the sulfurous wastes, just to grind out the levels to their lightbringer title.

I mean, no one ever did any fast faction farming…that’s FFF in the Guild Wars 1 wiki.

No one felt obligated and no one complained.

Right.

I never said that.
What I’m saying is that, in my opinion, people who complained about that had the right to do so, but I felt that there was almost no reasons to do it.
I would compare those complaints to complaints about legendaries being too difficult to craft ‘cause of rng (pre-stats doping).
On the contrary people complaining on this forum, not only have the right to do so, but they also have a real reason to do it.
+20-30% of stats everywhere/everytime is not something optional, and the time spent to get that bonus is simply absurd (because of grinding/gating/and the"slow release" of items).
(Always in my opnion:)
Should people complain because of ascended gap right now? Maybe not.
Should people complain about ascended because of their implications? Yes.
Why? Because ascended are:
- Not alts friendly.
- Not builds friendly.
- Not “play the way you want” to naturally obtain your gear.
*Why don’t implement them exactly like exotics? (with a slightly higher request in time)
- A possible requirment for higher contents (because of numbers).
- (to quote George Carlin) bad for ya :P

I feel the same exact way you do. People have the right to complain about anything, but I don’t feel it’s worth complaining about. That’s perspective works.

Vayne.8563:

SonicTHI.3217:

Carlin Sanders.3587:

Have gw1 fans forgotten the name of the fancy versions of armor you got on prophecies? does ‘ascended’ armor ring a bell?

exotic was designed to do a job – make top tier something that required effort so that people can actually appreciate what they have. it failed. so they had to bring in ascended to do that job. (would you salvage an ascended weapon? in comparison, would you salvage an exotic? and why?)

edit: and have we forgotten the point of why skill point scrolls exist? are we going to cry and whine when they introduce new skills into the game that seem better than the current meta? of course we will.

I wish people would stop spreading disinformation about GW1 already. 15k GW1 armor had the SAME stats as 1,5k and the SAME as obsidian or any other max armor.
Legendary had the SAME stats as exotic. Ascended was not needed in any way and goes against everything explained in numerous blog posts and interviews over the course of several years.
And no i wouldnt salvage my exotic weapon if it was max stat. Exotics required enough effort for most people. Especially if you wanted to have a fully geared character or god forbid alts.

Ascended was not brought in to do “a job”. It was brought in to please a subset of players that were complaining or leaving in droves – the same people that wanted GW2 to be more like WoW.

Unfortunately these same players can not be pleased. Ever. Once they have their chars geared out in ascended they will either demand new shinies again or leave.

ANET is doing the same 2 stupid things most companies in the last decade tried to do: trying to cater to everyone and trying to do what WoW does best.

I wish Guild Wars 1 players would stop spreading misinformation, like that there was no grind in Guild Wars that affected your character’s power. That’s just wrong. It wasn’t gear, sure, but then, there were plenty of skills that you had to level through rep, that were needed for some builds, like imbagon. Or do you not remember people in Guild Wars 1 looking for groups of r8 ursan?

Are you spreading misinformation on purpose or do you really have a short memory. Perhaps you will remember a quote from Mike O, which I gave you previously, that said GW had no vertical progression, ever, year after year. How could a founder of a company say something like that if Vayne says it did? Well, sadly, it’s because Vayne doesn’t know the difference between vertical and horizontal progression. Skill and/or ability progression is not only an aspect of horizontal as opposed to vertical progression it is an aspect almost always mentioned when discussing horizontal progression. It has nothing to do with power. That would be vertical progression which describes a process that raises the power level of the game over time.

Well, I don’t have a short memory. And, I actually know the difference between horizontal progression and vertical progression, so I will always call you on it. It would embarrass me to no end not to know common definitions and the basics in what I was attempting to discuss. I see that not all people feel that way.

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

SonicTHI.3217:

Carlin Sanders.3587:

Have gw1 fans forgotten the name of the fancy versions of armor you got on prophecies? does ‘ascended’ armor ring a bell?

exotic was designed to do a job – make top tier something that required effort so that people can actually appreciate what they have. it failed. so they had to bring in ascended to do that job. (would you salvage an ascended weapon? in comparison, would you salvage an exotic? and why?)

edit: and have we forgotten the point of why skill point scrolls exist? are we going to cry and whine when they introduce new skills into the game that seem better than the current meta? of course we will.

I wish people would stop spreading disinformation about GW1 already. 15k GW1 armor had the SAME stats as 1,5k and the SAME as obsidian or any other max armor.
Legendary had the SAME stats as exotic. Ascended was not needed in any way and goes against everything explained in numerous blog posts and interviews over the course of several years.
And no i wouldnt salvage my exotic weapon if it was max stat. Exotics required enough effort for most people. Especially if you wanted to have a fully geared character or god forbid alts.

Ascended was not brought in to do “a job”. It was brought in to please a subset of players that were complaining or leaving in droves – the same people that wanted GW2 to be more like WoW.

Unfortunately these same players can not be pleased. Ever. Once they have their chars geared out in ascended they will either demand new shinies again or leave.

ANET is doing the same 2 stupid things most companies in the last decade tried to do: trying to cater to everyone and trying to do what WoW does best.

I wish Guild Wars 1 players would stop spreading misinformation, like that there was no grind in Guild Wars that affected your character’s power. That’s just wrong. It wasn’t gear, sure, but then, there were plenty of skills that you had to level through rep, that were needed for some builds, like imbagon. Or do you not remember people in Guild Wars 1 looking for groups of r8 ursan?

Are you spreading misinformation on purpose or do you really have a short memory. Perhaps you will remember a quote from Mike O, which I gave you previously, that said GW had no vertical progression, ever, year after year. How could a founder of a company say something like that if Vayne says it did? Well, sadly, it’s because Vayne doesn’t know the difference between vertical and horizontal progression. Skill and/or ability progression is not only an aspect of horizontal as opposed to vertical progression it is an aspect almost always mentioned when discussing horizontal progression. It has nothing to do with power. That would be vertical progression which describes a process that raises the power level of the game over time.

Well, I don’t have a short memory. And, I actually know the difference between horizontal progression and vertical progression, so I will always call you on it. It would embarrass me to no end not to know common definitions and the basics in what I was attempting to discuss. I see that not all people feel that way.

Because founders are human and not perfect. He was thinking about gear. They were talking about gear. How can someone take a context that’s from a conversation about gear, and assume it applies to the rest of the game?

Vayne.8563:

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

SonicTHI.3217:

Carlin Sanders.3587:

Have gw1 fans forgotten the name of the fancy versions of armor you got on prophecies? does ‘ascended’ armor ring a bell?

exotic was designed to do a job – make top tier something that required effort so that people can actually appreciate what they have. it failed. so they had to bring in ascended to do that job. (would you salvage an ascended weapon? in comparison, would you salvage an exotic? and why?)

edit: and have we forgotten the point of why skill point scrolls exist? are we going to cry and whine when they introduce new skills into the game that seem better than the current meta? of course we will.

I wish people would stop spreading disinformation about GW1 already. 15k GW1 armor had the SAME stats as 1,5k and the SAME as obsidian or any other max armor.
Legendary had the SAME stats as exotic. Ascended was not needed in any way and goes against everything explained in numerous blog posts and interviews over the course of several years.
And no i wouldnt salvage my exotic weapon if it was max stat. Exotics required enough effort for most people. Especially if you wanted to have a fully geared character or god forbid alts.

Ascended was not brought in to do “a job”. It was brought in to please a subset of players that were complaining or leaving in droves – the same people that wanted GW2 to be more like WoW.

Unfortunately these same players can not be pleased. Ever. Once they have their chars geared out in ascended they will either demand new shinies again or leave.

ANET is doing the same 2 stupid things most companies in the last decade tried to do: trying to cater to everyone and trying to do what WoW does best.

I wish Guild Wars 1 players would stop spreading misinformation, like that there was no grind in Guild Wars that affected your character’s power. That’s just wrong. It wasn’t gear, sure, but then, there were plenty of skills that you had to level through rep, that were needed for some builds, like imbagon. Or do you not remember people in Guild Wars 1 looking for groups of r8 ursan?

Are you spreading misinformation on purpose or do you really have a short memory. Perhaps you will remember a quote from Mike O, which I gave you previously, that said GW had no vertical progression, ever, year after year. How could a founder of a company say something like that if Vayne says it did? Well, sadly, it’s because Vayne doesn’t know the difference between vertical and horizontal progression. Skill and/or ability progression is not only an aspect of horizontal as opposed to vertical progression it is an aspect almost always mentioned when discussing horizontal progression. It has nothing to do with power. That would be vertical progression which describes a process that raises the power level of the game over time.

Well, I don’t have a short memory. And, I actually know the difference between horizontal progression and vertical progression, so I will always call you on it. It would embarrass me to no end not to know common definitions and the basics in what I was attempting to discuss. I see that not all people feel that way.

Because founders are human and not perfect. He was thinking about gear. They were talking about gear. How can someone take a context that’s from a conversation about gear, and assume it applies to the rest of the game?

Well, of course, you don’t have a clue as to what he was thinking, we only know what he said. And, he was not talking about gear. He was specifically talking about vertical progression. That was even the meta-context of the entire AMA. So, the context is VP and I’m only talking about VP, just as Mike was when he said:

“How is introducing VP respecting the player? Because it’s fun to be challenged and rewarded. Because it’s fun to have the character you play grow and evolve over time. Because ArenaNet (sort of) held a hard line against all VP with GW1 — no VP ever, year after year — and it wasn’t that fun. It was stagnant.”

It must be hard to read that and come up with the context being gear. The ‘VP’ in the first sentence would be a strong clue if you didn’t understand the purpose of the AMA. Vayne, bottom line, not only don’t you understand the context here, you don’t know the difference between vertical and horizontal progression.

I’m not going after ascended items, I hope that my toons will still be relevant in the future.

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

SonicTHI.3217:

Carlin Sanders.3587:

snip

edit: and have we forgotten the point of why skill point scrolls exist? are we going to cry and whine when they introduce new skills into the game that seem better than the current meta? of course we will.

snip

Ascended was not brought in to do “a job”. It was brought in to please a subset of players that were complaining or leaving in droves – the same people that wanted GW2 to be more like WoW.

Unfortunately these same players can not be pleased. Ever. Once they have their chars geared out in ascended they will either demand new shinies again or leave.

ANET is doing the same 2 stupid things most companies in the last decade tried to do: trying to cater to everyone and trying to do what WoW does best.

I wish Guild Wars 1 players would stop spreading misinformation, like that there was no grind in Guild Wars that affected your character’s power. That’s just wrong. It wasn’t gear, sure, but then, there were plenty of skills that you had to level through rep, that were needed for some builds, like imbagon. Or do you not remember people in Guild Wars 1 looking for groups of r8 ursan?

Are you spreading misinformation on purpose or do you really have a short memory. Perhaps you will remember a quote from Mike O, which I gave you previously, that said GW had no vertical progression, ever, year after year. How could a founder of a company say something like that if Vayne says it did? Well, sadly, it’s because Vayne doesn’t know the difference between vertical and horizontal progression. Skill and/or ability progression is not only an aspect of horizontal as opposed to vertical progression it is an aspect almost always mentioned when discussing horizontal progression. It has nothing to do with power. That would be vertical progression which describes a process that raises the power level of the game over time.

Well, I don’t have a short memory. And, I actually know the difference between horizontal progression and vertical progression, so I will always call you on it. It would embarrass me to no end not to know common definitions and the basics in what I was attempting to discuss. I see that not all people feel that way.

Because founders are human and not perfect. He was thinking about gear. They were talking about gear. How can someone take a context that’s from a conversation about gear, and assume it applies to the rest of the game?

Well, of course, you don’t have a clue as to what he was thinking, we only know what he said. And, he was not talking about gear. He was specifically talking about vertical progression. That was even the meta-context of the entire AMA. So, the context is VP and I’m only talking about VP, just as Mike was when he said:

“How is introducing VP respecting the player? Because it’s fun to be challenged and rewarded. Because it’s fun to have the character you play grow and evolve over time. Because ArenaNet (sort of) held a hard line against all VP with GW1 — no VP ever, year after year — and it wasn’t that fun. It was stagnant.”

It must be hard to read that and come up with the context being gear. The ‘VP’ in the first sentence would be a strong clue if you didn’t understand the purpose of the AMA. Vayne, bottom line, not only don’t you understand the context here, you don’t know the difference between vertical and horizontal progression.

The bottom line to me is that leveling those skills made your character more powerful and getting more powerful gear makes your character more powerful. Making your character more powerful, is making your character more powerful.

One of the big bugaboos of vertical progression, why a lot of people say they don’t like it, is because of power creep. And Guild Wars 1 did experience power creep with those skills in PvE. You can deny it if you want, but everyone talked about how much easier those skills made the game. The same goes for VP.

So you can use the term VP or not, and I don’t care. If it looks like a horse and smells like a horse and rides like a horse, I’ll call it a horse.

The skills caused power creep, they positively trivialized content in Guild Wars 1 (far more than ascended gear will in Guild Wars 2), and you’re telling me I don’t understand VP. Well, you apparently don’t understand why people are against it.

It had the exact same effect on the game.

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

The bottom line to me is that leveling those skills made your character more powerful and getting more powerful gear makes your character more powerful. Making your character more powerful, is making your character more powerful.

One of the big bugaboos of vertical progression, why a lot of people say they don’t like it, is because of power creep. And Guild Wars 1 did experience power creep with those skills in PvE. You can deny it if you want, but everyone talked about how much easier those skills made the game. The same goes for VP.

So you can use the term VP or not, and I don’t care. If it looks like a horse and smells like a horse and rides like a horse, I’ll call it a horse.

The skills caused power creep, they positively trivialized content in Guild Wars 1 (far more than ascended gear will in Guild Wars 2), and you’re telling me I don’t understand VP. Well, you apparently don’t understand why people are against it.

It had the exact same effect on the game.

I’ll provide the same link I did last time on skill/ability progression being horizontal and the opposite of VP, which Mike was addressing in the quote:

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/strangesands/122012/24271_What-is-Horizontal-Progression-Really

Again, not quoted as an authority as literally everyone discussing it knowledgeably will put skill progression in the horizontal, not vertical (power) category. You either know the basics or you don’t. Raising the power level of the game has completely different effects of the game—google “power creep”. That’s obvious from understanding the difference between VP and HP, which, sadly, you don’t.

Okay I don’t. Shrugs. Have it your way.

Here we are arguing over terms again — instead of issues. Please stop derailing threads. If you want to argue about terms, get a room.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Here we are arguing over terms again — instead of issues. Please stop derailing threads. If you want to argue about terms, get a room.

This time, I’m not the one arguing about terms, though. I was perfectly happy with my terms. lol

Okiru.7635:

I’m not going after ascended items, I hope that my toons will still be relevant in the future.

They will be relevant, content is not going to be made based on people having ascended gear. The closest thing to that is Fractals, but you get the ascended gear naturally as you progress through the Fractal levels, and that is only because of the +agony you need, and by the time you need that +agony, you will have it.

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Here we are arguing over terms again — instead of issues. Please stop derailing threads. If you want to argue about terms, get a room.

This time, I’m not the one arguing about terms, though. I was perfectly happy with my terms. lol

And, if you are talking to me, I was working with concepts, not terms. Any OP about gear treadmills will be dealing with a number of concepts that will be labeled through terms. It’s always important to get the labels on the concepts correctly, especially if they are being misapplied.

Bread.7516:

haviz.1340:

Mada.5319:

Is it really that hard? I mean, I log on and do my daily however I want and I get ascended gear out of it. I don’t call that a grind. It’s time gated yeah, but its not like it’s such a major stat buff that I can’t get groups or I’ll die without it….

It’s not hard, though it’s kittening annoying. Why can’t I get BiS gear by doing challenging content like fractals 80 and not by spamming 1 during those “world” events? Wait, I don’t even spam 1, I just leave autoattack turned on and watch a movie. Is this game really skill > gear? Is this how “end content” should look like? Standing in LA near crafting panel.

this…seriously…this.

and when ascended armor comes out, ascended WILL be the gear check in the future. (the total difference is huge)

This is what I don’t look forward to :c

Raine.1394:

So, the context is VP and I’m only talking about VP, just as Mike was when he said:

“How is introducing VP respecting the player? Because it’s fun to be challenged and rewarded. Because it’s fun to have the character you play grow and evolve over time. Because ArenaNet (sort of) held a hard line against all VP with GW1 — no VP ever, year after year — and it wasn’t that fun. It was stagnant.”

Sounds like someone never actually played the game, which is sad.