Guild Wars 2

I think it would be very cool if the Orders were expanded with lots of Order member missions with special or unique treasures upon completion. It’s an aspect of the game that is limited. The Orders are a cool part of the personal story but pretty much end there.

Maybe the Durmand Priory would investigate rumors of Vampires or ancient ruins filled with unique monsters and bosses leading to unique treasures only attainable by Order members who can complete the mission.

Having small storylines featuring the orders in the next expansion would be pretty awesome! Or even as “filler” content between the end of LWS3 and the second expac I guess.

I think that ship has sailed. There was already a discussion of a similar topic in another section of the forums (I participated but I can’t remember the thread, it was in the living world section I believe).

In that thread, I pointed out that the player, as the commander, retired from the pact. Here’s the dialogue from the wiki of the second instance in the first episode of Living World Season 3 (spoilers for anyone who hasn’t got that far):

<Character name>: General Soulkeeper, this is quite a surprise. What brings you to Rata Novus?
General Almorra Soulkeeper: You do, Commander. I’ve come here to offer you a new position within the Pact.
General Almorra Soulkeeper: The Marshal rank is…uh…vacant. And we want you to fill it.
<Character name>: This is an honor.
General Almorra Soulkeeper: I’m glad you view it in that light. The Pact is hanging on by a thread.
<Character name>: I see…
General Almorra Soulkeeper: I can tell you’re having your doubts, so let me just be up front about the role.
General Almorra Soulkeeper: Certain Pact elements feel like Marshal Trahearne’s mistake was going out into the field and getting himself killed.
General Almorra Soulkeeper: The new marshal would be planted safely in an office in Lion’s Arch. Still leading the troops, but out of harm’s way.
<Character name>: As flattered as I am by your offer, I’m going to have to respectfully decline, General.
<Character name>: After our Mordremoth battle, I believe I, Rytlock, and the others would be more effective operating as our own guild.
General Almorra Soulkeeper: I understand the decision on your early retirement, although I’m disappointed. I still believe in the Pact’s goal.
<Character name>: I do too, and I’ll always be ready to lend a hand. It’ll just be outside the system.

So the commander has, officially, left the pact, but this has no bearing on their status in the order at a first glance. Except it does. Logically speaking, the pact is a union between the three orders that began in order to fight Zhaitan. My personal view of the matter is that the moment you were assigned the title of commander, second in command of the Pact, you were promoted out of your order. All evidence shows you have ties to your order, but it seems there is no evidence of you retaining official membership of your chosen order. Plus it would be strange to be promoted to such a high position within the pact, [/i]second in command[/i] mind you, and still be a random member of your Order. So, no, I don’t believe there is truly room for the commander to be tied to any order, not after that dialogue I quoted above.

I was initially going to point to the creation of Dragon’s Watch as something that would also hamper the commander’s ability to be tied to an organisation, but the last info we had, Jory was still a member of the Priory and we have that one moment where we learn about Kasmeer who is in the Mesmer Conclave. We don’t have a living world season 3 confirmation of their status, and considering Delequa Investigations led by Jory with Kasmeer as part of it, it’s not a solid enough argument.

However, it would be strange if the commander were suddenly to be ordered around by their respective Order after such a large amount of independant activity.

I want more info and lore about each of the Orders, but unless we formally jump back into the Order again, we probably won’t see much of them. As far as has been stated officially, the Pact is hanging by a thread, and after the large number of casualties in the fight with Mordremoth, we can assume that the Orders took a big hit too (except potentially the Order of Whispers, cause they have eyes and ears pretty much everywhere).

@castlemaniac I’m fairly certain the player character keeps their rank in their original order, because the very reason Trahearne is the Pact Marshall and not the player character is that Trahearne doesn’t have an affiliation with any of the 3 orders, whereas the player does.

Djahlat.9610:

@castlemaniac I’m fairly certain the player character keeps their rank in their original order, because the very reason Trahearne is the Pact Marshall and not the player character is that Trahearne doesn’t have an affiliation with any of the 3 orders, whereas the player does.

But as mentioned before, it doesn’t make sense to be promoted to second in command of the pact and still maintain your rank in your Order, since you’ve essentially been promoted beyond any title your Order can give you. As I mentioned, the player character has more than likely been promoted out of their Order.

Even if castlemaniac is incorrect about the last detail (retaining rank in the order or not), there would still be two hurdles to expanding the orders in a post-HoT Tyria:

• Lore: why would the (former) second in command of the pact favor one order over the others? Part of ‘our’ mission was to unite Tyria against a common threat and focusing on narrower concerns works against that.
• Gameplay: how would the game handle characters that hadn’t done any Pact missions or chosen a Pact? how would people feel about feeling forced to have characters in multiple orders?

I would have like to see the Orders expanded in the original game. However, given the game as it is today, I think it would be a distraction (and a source of player frustration) to return to them now.

castlemanic.3198:

Djahlat.9610:

@castlemaniac I’m fairly certain the player character keeps their rank in their original order, because the very reason Trahearne is the Pact Marshall and not the player character is that Trahearne doesn’t have an affiliation with any of the 3 orders, whereas the player does.

But as mentioned before, it doesn’t make sense to be promoted to second in command of the pact and still maintain your rank in your Order, since you’ve essentially been promoted beyond any title your Order can give you. As I mentioned, the player character has more than likely been promoted out of their Order.

I don’t usually get involved in lore threads since yall know so much more than me, but I googled the personal story and it says you’re still a member of your order.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Source_of_Orr
“Doern Velazquez: I’ve verified the coordinates and our agents have scouted the perimeter. We’re ready.
If member of the Order of Whispers:”

“Warmaster Efut: The battle ahead will be difficult, Commander. Are you prepared?
If member of the Vigil:”

“Wynnet Fairhaired: How I miss the Priory’s high, cold walls. Those libraries seem like a paradise in my memory.
If member of the Durmand Priory:”

<Character name>: I do too, and I’ll always be ready to lend a hand. It’ll just be outside the system.

There’s the opening we need. It doesn’t have to be the order you joined, as the official Pooh-bah we have gained the trust of all three orders.
I thought the order part of PS felt rushed, we gained rank far too quickly, and then we concentrated on the pact, forgetting the separate orders. Should anet revive them and flesh them out a bit in current events or LS, I’m all for it.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

I don’t usually get involved in lore threads since yall know so much more than me, but I googled the personal story and it says you’re still a member of your order.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Source_of_Orr
“Doern Velazquez: I’ve verified the coordinates and our agents have scouted the perimeter. We’re ready.
If member of the Order of Whispers:”

“Warmaster Efut: The battle ahead will be difficult, Commander. Are you prepared?
If member of the Vigil:”

“Wynnet Fairhaired: How I miss the Priory’s high, cold walls. Those libraries seem like a paradise in my memory.
If member of the Durmand Priory:”

That doesn’t actually confirm that you’re still a part of your order. In fact, if you look at the full list of quotes instead of cherry picking:

Order liaisons:

Doern Velazquez: I’ve verified the coordinates and our agents have scouted the perimeter. We’re ready.
If member of the Order of Whispers:
Talk more option tango.png For generations, the Order of Whispers has waited for this day. We won’t fail now.
To see the rebirth of Orr, to prove the land can be redeemed… I hope you’re right, Lightbringer.
Talk end option tango.png We’ll beat this dragon, Doern. You’ll see.
Otherwise:
Talk more option tango.png The Order of Whispers has been invaluable, Doern. Thank you for trusting in the Pact.
I trusted you, Commander, and I trusted Trahearne. The rest…just sort of evolved.
Talk end option tango.png Times change, my friend.
Warmaster Efut: The battle ahead will be difficult, Commander. Are you prepared?
If member of the Vigil:
Talk more option tango.png The Vigil trained me well, Efut. I’m ready for anything.
I hope you’re right, <Character name>. I really do.
Talk end option tango.png Stay near me, and we’ll see this through.
Otherwise:
Talk more option tango.png I am, but I’m placing a lot of trust in you and your troops, Warmaster Efut.
Don’t worry. The Vigil was made for this sort of thing!
Talk end option tango.png I look forward to fighting beside you one more time.
Wynnet Fairhaired: How I miss the Priory’s high, cold walls. Those libraries seem like a paradise in my memory.
If member of the Durmand Priory:
Talk more option tango.png Are you ready for this, Wynnet? You can still turn back.
No. If I left you, Sieran’s spirit would never forgive me. I’ll fight, Commander. And we’ll win.
Talk end option tango.png Thank you, Wynnet.
Otherwise:
Talk more option tango.png Without the Priory’s knowledge, we never would have made it this far. Thank you, Wynnet.
It’s been my abiding honor, <Character name>.
Talk end option tango.png Good luck.

You’ll notice that all three members of the order are there. In fact the only difference is the dialogue with the order that you chose at the beginning. Of course they’d have something unique to say to you if you joined their order, there is history there. That’s all the dialogue confirms. It doesn’t confirm that you’re still a member of the order.

Besides, that doesn’t take into account everything that happened afterward, including the Commander’s departure from the Pact and their independent status after everything to do with Zhaitan. As I mentioned in my initial post, you apparently still have ties to your chosen order, you have connections because of your history with your Order. But you’ve also, as Commander, proven your independence from any and all organisations, instead opting to form your own guild.

Basically, until we hear living world season 3 dialogue stating that you are currently a member of one of the Orders, we have many reasons to suspect that you’re no longer a part of the Order in an official capacity.

Ashandar.2570:

<Character name>: I do too, and I’ll always be ready to lend a hand. It’ll just be outside the system.

There’s the opening we need. It doesn’t have to be the order you joined, as the official Pooh-bah we have gained the trust of all three orders.
I thought the order part of PS felt rushed, we gained rank far too quickly, and then we concentrated on the pact, forgetting the separate orders. Should anet revive them and flesh them out a bit in current events or LS, I’m all for it.

Like Illconcieved mentioned, our mission was to unite the three orders together, why would we now favour one over the other?

I feel like ArenaNet only made us go through the ‘important’ missions, the ones where we gained ranks. If we were to go through proper protocols for gaining ranks, we’d basically be doing several missions, each with unique dialogue and considering the 40 voice actors for the player characters alone (10 for each language, one per choice of race and sex), that would simply be beyond budget. They could have gone with a traditional style questing system to do that, but the whole point of GW2 was to avoid that from the early stages of vanilla development. I agree that gaining ranks went by too fast, but I’m not sure it could have been handled better unless ArenaNet had Blizzard level budgeting.

castlemanic.3198:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

I don’t usually get involved in lore threads since yall know so much more than me, but I googled the personal story and it says you’re still a member of your order.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Source_of_Orr
“Doern Velazquez: I’ve verified the coordinates and our agents have scouted the perimeter. We’re ready.
If member of the Order of Whispers:”

“Warmaster Efut: The battle ahead will be difficult, Commander. Are you prepared?
If member of the Vigil:”

“Wynnet Fairhaired: How I miss the Priory’s high, cold walls. Those libraries seem like a paradise in my memory.
If member of the Durmand Priory:”

That doesn’t actually confirm that you’re still a part of your order. In fact, if you look at the full list of quotes instead of cherry picking:

Order liaisons:

Doern Velazquez: I’ve verified the coordinates and our agents have scouted the perimeter. We’re ready.
If member of the Order of Whispers:
Talk more option tango.png For generations, the Order of Whispers has waited for this day. We won’t fail now.
To see the rebirth of Orr, to prove the land can be redeemed… I hope you’re right, Lightbringer.
Talk end option tango.png We’ll beat this dragon, Doern. You’ll see.
Otherwise:
Talk more option tango.png The Order of Whispers has been invaluable, Doern. Thank you for trusting in the Pact.
I trusted you, Commander, and I trusted Trahearne. The rest…just sort of evolved.
Talk end option tango.png Times change, my friend.
Warmaster Efut: The battle ahead will be difficult, Commander. Are you prepared?
If member of the Vigil:
Talk more option tango.png The Vigil trained me well, Efut. I’m ready for anything.
I hope you’re right, <Character name>. I really do.
Talk end option tango.png Stay near me, and we’ll see this through.
Otherwise:
Talk more option tango.png I am, but I’m placing a lot of trust in you and your troops, Warmaster Efut.
Don’t worry. The Vigil was made for this sort of thing!
Talk end option tango.png I look forward to fighting beside you one more time.
Wynnet Fairhaired: How I miss the Priory’s high, cold walls. Those libraries seem like a paradise in my memory.
If member of the Durmand Priory:
Talk more option tango.png Are you ready for this, Wynnet? You can still turn back.
No. If I left you, Sieran’s spirit would never forgive me. I’ll fight, Commander. And we’ll win.
Talk end option tango.png Thank you, Wynnet.
Otherwise:
Talk more option tango.png Without the Priory’s knowledge, we never would have made it this far. Thank you, Wynnet.
It’s been my abiding honor, <Character name>.
Talk end option tango.png Good luck.

You’ll notice that all three members of the order are there. In fact the only difference is the dialogue with the order that you chose at the beginning. Of course they’d have something unique to say to you if you joined their order, there is history there. That’s all the dialogue confirms. It doesn’t confirm that you’re still a member of the order.

Besides, that doesn’t take into account everything that happened afterward, including the Commander’s departure from the Pact and their independent status after everything to do with Zhaitan. As I mentioned in my initial post, you apparently still have ties to your chosen order, you have connections because of your history with your Order. But you’ve also, as Commander, proven your independence from any and all organisations, instead opting to form your own guild.

Basically, until we hear living world season 3 dialogue stating that you are currently a member of one of the Orders, we have many reasons to suspect that you’re no longer a part of the Order in an official capacity.

“It doesn’t confirm that you’re still a member of the order.”

Ok. My bad. I took the words “if a member of the [order]” to mean that they were a member of the order. Obviously that’s not what those words mean.

Carry on.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

“It doesn’t confirm that you’re still a member of the order.”

Ok. My bad. I took the words “if a member of the [order]” to mean that they were a member of the order. Obviously that’s not what those words mean.

Carry on.

There’s a difference between game mechanics and lore. On a game mechanics level, you are a part of the Order that you chose, you always will be mechanically so. Lore-wise, you’re not.

It’s exactly the difference between Queensdale and Lake Doric. Lake Doric has the glamour that covers the entirety of Divnity’s Reach, while Queensdale will never have that visual update. Lore wise, the glamour is there because that is current content, but it’s not there in Queensdale because Queensdale maps, mechanically, are stuck in time.

So yes, I will carry on despite your sarcasm.

EDIT: Actually, to further disprove your point, here are some quotes from the final Heart of Thorns mission “Hearts and Minds” (found at this link: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hearts_and_Minds):

Canach: Sound strategy, Commander. Turn the tables and attack the dragon the same way it’s been attacking us? Brilliant.

Notice the word Commander there?

Here’s something that happens later in the instance

Encountering the Blighted mentor:

If didn’t join an order:
Blighted Trahearne: This won’t end well—for you.
If joined Durmand Priory:
Blighted Sieran: Let’s do this, then.
If joined Order of whispers:
Blighted Tybalt Leftpaw: It never ends.
If joined Vigil:
Blighted Forgal: Time for some fun!

If you didn’t join an Order, you are still mechanically considered the Commander. Thus, your point has been disproven.

castlemanic.3198:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

“It doesn’t confirm that you’re still a member of the order.”

Ok. My bad. I took the words “if a member of the [order]” to mean that they were a member of the order. Obviously that’s not what those words mean.

Carry on.

There’s a difference between game mechanics and lore. On a game mechanics level, you are a part of the Order that you chose, you always will be mechanically so. Lore-wise, you’re not.

It’s exactly the difference between Queensdale and Lake Doric. Lake Doric has the glamour that covers the entirety of Divnity’s Reach, while Queensdale will never have that visual update. Lore wise, the glamour is there because that is current content, but it’s not there in Queensdale because Queensdale maps, mechanically, are stuck in time.

So yes, I will carry on despite your sarcasm.

If it’s only needed for game mechanics, why didn’t the game say, if you used to be a member of [order]? You’d still have the order specific dialog without the game specifically saying you are a member of [order].

Idk. I figured if the game specifically says something, it’s lore (until revised). Not you take what the dialog says and decide in your own mind if it’s lore or not depending on what point you want to make. Like I said, y’all know more than me about lore and it’s interpretation so I guess you’re right and I was confused. /shrug,

Just a flesh wound.3589:

If it’s only needed for game mechanics, why didn’t the game say, if you used to be a member of [order]? You’d still have the order specific dialog without the game specifically saying you are a member of [order].

Idk. I figured if the game specifically says something, it’s lore (until revised). Not you take what the dialog says and decide in your own mind if it’s lore or not depending on what point you want to make. Like I said, y’all know more than me about lore and it’s interpretation so I guess you’re right and I was confused. /shrug,

First, see my edit for further confirmation of this. Secondly, what you quoted was the Wiki. Yes, it’s an official wiki, but it’s still run by players. Also, mechanically speaking, you are still a part of the order. Say if you’re Order of Whispers, you still get the extra dialogue with various hidden members in core Tyria, so it doesn’t make sense if the wiki has to go back and change everything with “if you used to be a member of the order of whispers” when atleast part of the game still considers you a current member (remember, core tyria is stuck in time), it’s just simpler to state “if you are a member of the order of whispers” to skirt around this issue. As far as the game officially states, it actually doesn’t. Since Heart of Thorns storyline, I havent seen any overt confirmation of the commander’s choice of Order (though it HAS been a long time since I played it so I may very well be wrong). Same for LWS3.

EDIT: also, to just take a single thing from your post:

I figured if the game specifically says something, it’s lore (until revised). Not you take what the dialog says and decide in your own mind if it’s lore or not depending on what point you want to make.

I’m going off of what the game is specifically stating. The game provides enough evidence to distance the Commander from the Orders. If you purely go from the mechanics of what the game states, Divinity’s Reach is both covered by a giant glamour and NOT covered by a giant glamour at the same time, thus we have to go with what the evidence states and interpret lore wise what’s happening. All of the HoT maps still show the Mordrem up and about and fighting for Mordremoth, but lore wise he’s dead, same thing with the Risen in Orr and Zhaitan. There’s several moments where the lore needs to be considered above what the game mechanics state, because unlike an RPG like the Elder Scrolls (not the MMO), the world remains statikittenil updated by developer input, the game does not wholly adjust itself to the presence of the players and the feats they have accomplished. In the Elder Scrolls, if you kill a named character, that person is dead, they’re not coming back. In GW2 we see the Shatterer explode in the distance every time it’s defeated, yet it keeps coming back for us to fight. There’s also those champion bandits and the guild mission targets that are named and constantly reappear. It’s just the nature of MMOs for there to be disconnect between lore and mechanics.

EDIT 1: For some reason, putting the words “static” and “until” right next to each other results in forum censoring.

Proof, sort of, that character Order choice does not matter in Heart of Thorns is the Scholar’s Pack Achievement (and the reward choice in ‘Prisoners of the Dragon’), I would say. It matters not which Order the player character had previously chosen, if any, a choice from all 3 Order rewards are available to that character.

castlemanic.3198:

Djahlat.9610:

@castlemaniac I’m fairly certain the player character keeps their rank in their original order, because the very reason Trahearne is the Pact Marshall and not the player character is that Trahearne doesn’t have an affiliation with any of the 3 orders, whereas the player does.

But as mentioned before, it doesn’t make sense to be promoted to second in command of the pact and still maintain your rank in your Order, since you’ve essentially been promoted beyond any title your Order can give you. As I mentioned, the player character has more than likely been promoted out of their Order.

The pact is not your order, it’s an entirely separate thing, if I get promoted at work it doesn’t mean I have to step down as captain in my five a side football team. The two are not related.

Pifil.5193:

The pact is not your order, it’s an entirely separate thing, if I get promoted at work it doesn’t mean I have to step down as captain in my five a side football team. The two are not related.

Except:

Trahearne: Enough bickering, all of you! Our real enemy lurks across the waves.
Trahearne: Zhaitan’s servants march at the gates of Lion’s Arch. We must band together, or we will all be destroyed.
<Character Name>: When I joined my order, I swore to fight Zhaitan. I will die for Tyria, if I must. However, I believe that together we can win.
<Character Name>: The Vigil has shown tremendous courage in the fight against the dragons. This alliance will require courage as well. Why back down now?
<Character Name>: The Order of Whispers has seen nations rise and fall. You cannot hide from this threat. You need to make a stand.
<Character Name>: And who knows more about the dragons than the Priory? Just think of how much there is to learn. Where else, but in Orr?
Gixx: By the whorls of the Eternal Alchemy, you’re bold! But… you’re correct. Knowledge is useless if it is not used. We shall aid you.
Halvora Snapdagger: The Order of Whispers has worked for generations to bring nations together. We can do no less now. Our blades are yours.
General Almorra Soulkeeper: The Vigil fears nothing! Not even ill-tempered, undisciplined louts like these two. We’ll join, but I insist there’s a decent hierarchy. Who will lead this compact?
Gixx: Logic dictates that it cannot be a member of any of our orders, lest one be seen as above the other two. Quite a conundrum!
<Character Name>: I’ve already considered that. Trahearne, you’ve never joined an order, yet they all respect you. You’ve studied Orr all your life. Will you lead us?
Trahearne: I… I never wanted to be a soldier. I’m only a seeker of truth. But… yes. I will lead this pact to the gates of Arah, and together, we will see Zhaitan destroyed.
Trahearne: First, to Claw Island. Let us send our defiant message straight into the heart of Orr: Tyria stands as one!

The very leaders of all three Orders pledge to join the Pact. They still retain their own identities but they’ve formally established a union between all three Orders. Therefore your point (and strawman at that) has no ground to stand on.

castlemanic.3198:

Ashandar.2570:

<Character name>: I do too, and I’ll always be ready to lend a hand. It’ll just be outside the system.

There’s the opening we need. It doesn’t have to be the order you joined, as the official Pooh-bah we have gained the trust of all three orders.
I thought the order part of PS felt rushed, we gained rank far too quickly, and then we concentrated on the pact, forgetting the separate orders. Should anet revive them and flesh them out a bit in current events or LS, I’m all for it.

Like Illconcieved mentioned, our mission was to unite the three orders together, why would we now favour one over the other?

I feel like ArenaNet only made us go through the ‘important’ missions, the ones where we gained ranks. If we were to go through proper protocols for gaining ranks, we’d basically be doing several missions, each with unique dialogue and considering the 40 voice actors for the player characters alone (10 for each language, one per choice of race and sex), that would simply be beyond budget. They could have gone with a traditional style questing system to do that, but the whole point of GW2 was to avoid that from the early stages of vanilla development. I agree that gaining ranks went by too fast, but I’m not sure it could have been handled better unless ArenaNet had Blizzard level budgeting.

I never said anything about favouring one over the other.
What I said was that we have the trust of all orders, thus a new mission would work regardless of order. I felt that the order arc was a bit rushed and therefore a mission or two where you learn more about the order(s) involved in that particular mission would be nice. Now that I’ve clarified this I’ll let you go back to whatever you were doing. Enjoy

Ashandar.2570:

What I said was that we have the trust of all orders,

Definitely.

Ashandar.2570:

I felt that the order arc was a bit rushed and therefore a mission or two where you learn more about the order(s) involved in that particular mission would be nice.

Absolutely, it would be nice.

Ashandar.2570:

thus a new mission would work regardless of order.

I don’t think that follows. As I said above, I don’t think a new mission specific to any single order would work now.

From a lore standpoint: The player character dedicated themselves to uniting the orders, something they felt was essential to protecting the planet. And such global threats remain. Why would the PC choose to distract themselves to focus on a single order’s or single race’s concerns?

From a gameplay perspective: how would the community react to being dependent on personal story choices to participate in newly added content? How would ANet handle the dependencies on order?

tl;dr I would have liked to see the orders better fleshed out during the personal story. I just don’t think it’s practical to focus on parochial considerations now, 18 months after HoT released.

You could still have order missions regardless of which one your in i feel. Like you guys mentioned you have the trust of all 3. Therefore they can trust you with helping one of their members with a task. Much like when they first recruited, you had the option of picking the vigil way or whisper way, then next story step was like priory or vigil way. Now you don’t have to make it a story thing, but think of it more like the daily champ for itzel, exalted and the other guys. Could just be a quick instanced thing that you have to see an order rep to start. Or something similar to guild missions cept it’s the orders giving you them and could even use some of the dynamic events for it.

Oh and if they did force players to stick to the order, thereby making players play 3 toons in each order. I think most ppl have that done already as if your a skin collector you have that already for teh backpacks in hot. Plus we were FORCED to craft to 500 to make ascended gear even those that pvp 90% of the time. And i feel there would be less grumbling about the 3 toons then there was with crafting lol. Specially now with the “feels faster” story now that it’s level 10, 20, 30, etc. vs. how it was b4.