Guild Wars 2

I am not really on of the players who think “I got cheated and have to pay twice for the game!” I am a regular player, who pre-ordered the game at launch, then bought the expansion.

That out of the way:

I can still see A LOT of people who think this way about the current pricing model, and feel that their in-game gem purchases, or veteran status, are pretty much “thrown away” due to them believing in a notion that they are supporting the game more by purchasing gems and the original game, then they would be if they bought expansion, and they feel “cheated” so to speak.

And this got me thinking, and made me remember a small “event” that was help a long long time ago where if players had bought X amount of gems within a certain time frame, they received a little bonus (I cannot for the life of me remember what it was though…)

So why not have a similar “Loyalty Bonus” kinda like alot of businesses have, mostly retail chains, that reward points, or benefits for purchases, as long as they do not include any in-game advantages of course.

Like if you spent X gems prior to the launch of the next expansion, you would get a 33% discount or something along those lines, or even take a % of the total spent on Gems during a time frame and apply a discount (up to a % cap) on expansion purchases that way?

Example: For every 10 dollars spent in the Gem Store, you would receive a 10% discount on the next expansion. Up to a cap of 30-50%?

That way people who buy gems, will support the company by buying gems (of course) and a little bit by buying the expansion (with incentive) Whereas people who never buy gems, will still support the company by paying the regular retail price of the expansion, with a chance at third party sales/discounts regardless.

People who buy gems don’t feel like they are being money gouged, and people who do not follow the same rules as pretty much every other game in existence with regard to expansion purchases.

As long as the expansion pricing is not ridiculous, and higher than the price of a normal full-game, everything would work out? right?

Personally (people will disagree with me) I do not feel this falls under any Pay-to-Win category either, since either way, a player is spending roughly the same amount of money for the same content, the gem purchases are just retroactively percentile based.

ANet makes money from game key sales and gem sales. Not sure if they would really care if a player has to cut back on their gem buying to pay for a full price expansion.

You could spin that the price of the Ultimate version of HoT wasn’t $50 of gems for $25 over deluxe but the deluxe upgrade for free with a purchase of $50 worth of gems.

My impression is that ANet did that almost entirely to help boost gem sales at a time when there wasn’t much in the gem shop.

I’m not against them doing it now, I just think they are probably already happy with the amount of RL cash spent on gems.

The next expansion will likely include the core game as well, but not the Heart of Thorns expansion. It is what it is. It just seems normal to me for them to do it that way.

Zietlogik.6208:

I can still see A LOT of people who think this way about the current pricing model, and feel that their in-game gem purchases, or veteran status, are pretty much “thrown away” due to them believing in a notion that they are supporting the game more by purchasing gems and the original game, then they would be if they bought expansion, and they feel “cheated” so to speak.

Lets talk more about this “notion” that they are supporting the game more by purchasing gems and the original game, then they would if they bought expansion. What makes you think that a LOT of people believe this? Personally, this makes 0% sense to me. You support Anet by giving them money for their products. This includes both buying expansions and gem store purchases. What makes one better than the other? When people buy from the gem store, they know the product they are buying. Why would you feel cheated by this? Why do you personally feel that your in-game gem purchases are “thrown-away”? After all, you got the product you payed for. If you don’t like the gem store purchase you made, don’t buy it again. However, as of right now, I believe its wrong to think of it as a donation that entitles you to a discount. The gem store is in no way advertised as a donation sink. Its advertised as a place to purchase additional products/features for the game. Additionally, this new expansion didn’t appear to devaluate any of my gem store purchases that I made in the past. I am still just as happy with what I bought before the expansion as I am when the expansion came out. I am also not sure if I agree with this notion of Veteran entitlement. You buy the game and enjoy it. I have bought many counsel games that I have probably played for no more than 50 hours for around $60. I bought the core game much later than its release date when it was on sale, I believe around $25, and bought the Ultimate HoT Edition for $99.99. I have played gw2 for over 2,000 hours. At a cost of $120, this gives me a cost of .0625 cents per hour for gw2 vs $1.2 per hour for the counsel game. I am paying 1820% more per hour for the counsel game. Yet, I have never wrote a letter or posted on a forum demanding a discount for a counsel DLC because I bought the game when it came out for $60 and it only gave me 50 hours of content. I know I am getting a bit off topic now, but you at least see what I think. Buying gems gives you the advertised product you payed for, gems for the gem store. Buying the expansion gives you the advertised product you payed for, the expansion. These products are not related. Additionally, even with my additional gem store purchases not mentioned in this article, I still payed waaaaaay less for this game for the amount of entertainment it gave me than almost any other entertainment source. Of course, I understand this may not be the same experience with everyone. However, based on my experience and data I have absolutely no reason to complain about any purchases I make from Anet. In fact, I almost feel like I owe them more money for all the time and great fun I got out of this game.

Ubi.4136:

The next expansion will likely include the core game as well, but not the Heart of Thorns expansion. It is what it is. It just seems normal to me for them to do it that way.

Actually, they’ve said that future expansions will include base and all previous expansions for free.

Seera.5916:

Ubi.4136:

The next expansion will likely include the core game as well, but not the Heart of Thorns expansion. It is what it is. It just seems normal to me for them to do it that way.

Actually, they’ve said that future expansions will include base and all previous expansions for free.

More and more MMO’s are going this route. Makes it much easier for new players to come into the game and play with everyone which also makes it less likely to die that fast.

This is why I got the Ultimate Edition, for me it basically is like getting a discount for buying gems.

I wanted the Deluxe Edition (for the mini and the glider) and I buy gems periodically anyway. So this way it’s like I bought 4000 gems at once (instead of my usual 800 at a time) and then got the Deluxe Edition for £37.50 instead of £59.99 (which is about a 30% discount I think).

More importantly though I’d already decided based on what I knew of what was in HoT that I’d be willing to pay about £35 for it, so that was a reasonable price for me.

And those 4000 gems lasted me about 6 months.

At first I wasn’t really happy with the pricing model for veteran players, but Anet fixed it to my satisfaction. Going forward, as I know exactly what I’ll be getting for my money, I’m happy with things just the way they currently are.

Ubi.4136:

The next expansion will likely include the core game as well, but not the Heart of Thorns expansion. It is what it is. It just seems normal to me for them to do it that way.

They stated each expac would include core and previous expacs, which Im a big fan of

It would be foolish for ANet to set up a discount policy for the express purpose of appeasing players whose attitude amounts to, “I bought product X. and am therefore entitled to pay less (or nothing) for any subsequent product that the company offers.” Discounts and customer loyalty programs have their place, but creating such to cater to such a mindset would be a fool’s errand.

IndigoSundown.5419:

It would be foolish for ANet to set up a discount policy for the express purpose of appeasing players whose attitude amounts to, “I bought product X. and am therefore entitled to pay less (or nothing) for any subsequent product that the company offers.” Discounts and customer loyalty programs have their place, but creating such to cater to such a mindset would be a fool’s errand.

I don’t know, as someone else said various real-life stores do have loyalty schemes where spending enough gets you a discount or free stuff.

But it’s usually a very low rate of return, like every £1 you spend gets you 1 point and 100 points = £1 off. In other words spend £100 to save £1.

Still, if you’re going to spend money there anyway (and the points don’t expire) it’s better than nothing.

If another expansion comes out for a full price of $50 again that includes base game and HoT, I will quit.

After HoT, not interested in another cash grab from this game just to be relevant in PvP. Sell off Living Stories or something.

sephiroth.4217:

If another expansion comes out for a full price of $50 again that includes base game and HoT, I will quit.

After HoT, not interested in another cash grab from this game just to be relevant in PvP. Sell off Living Stories or something.

May as well quit now then. They explained clearly and repeatedly when HoT came out that is exactly what they are going to do.

IndigoSundown.5419:

It would be foolish for ANet to set up a discount policy for the express purpose of appeasing players whose attitude amounts to, “I bought product X. and am therefore entitled to pay less (or nothing) for any subsequent product that the company offers.” Discounts and customer loyalty programs have their place, but creating such to cater to such a mindset would be a fool’s errand.

I don’t feel “entitled” to Starbucks rewards points for purchasing coffee, but I do appreciate the program and it makes me feel better about buying a 6 dollar drink to know after I purchase so many of them I will get a freebie. The thing is sooner or later GW2 is going to have real competition from another MMO, and when they do you will most certainly see such schemes to encourage player loyalty… which is basically all this is, encouraging players to be loyal and spend $$$ on gems knowing that their loyalty will be “rewarded”.

Alternately: They could make higher value expansions and rely less on the gem store because the expansions sell better.

The argument that people are “paying twice” is only applicable if those players were paying some kind of subscription. In GW2 they were not. If you bought the game and played it for any length of time, every time you logged in you were getting a return on that purchase in the form of the servers actually working.

If you bought gems you were not donating to Anet out of good will. You were buying a specific product at a specific price, which you received.

Players that feel they are owed a discount on an expansion because it is now free are like people barging in to a store and asking for the latest iPhone or Galaxy or whatever at a discount because they bought one three years ago and “already had access” to previous versions of the operating system and services.

Expansions aren’t upgrades. They’re new iterative products. Just like your phone. Just like your phone, when you get the new one nobody charges you for all the R&D that went in to refining its software and components despite that software simply being a newer version of what you already have.

The expansion model Anet landed on is built specifically so that existing AND new users pay the same amount of money for the same product on the day of release. Making the previous product part of the bundle does not invalidate the months or years of service you already received.

Making the previous product fee because they have moved to a new, more lucratvie revenue source also does not invalidate your previously received service. Especially when both products share a service architecture.

sephiroth.4217:

If another expansion comes out for a full price of $50 again that includes base game and HoT, I will quit.

After HoT, not interested in another cash grab from this game just to be relevant in PvP. Sell off Living Stories or something.

Then don’t play any other MMO’s. Pretty much every MMO out there is now doing this when a new expansion comes out, the core and the older expansions are bundled with it for the same price.

I like your idea, Zietlogik, but it’s never going to happen.

Danikat.8537:

IndigoSundown.5419:

It would be foolish for ANet to set up a discount policy for the express purpose of appeasing players whose attitude amounts to, “I bought product X. and am therefore entitled to pay less (or nothing) for any subsequent product that the company offers.” Discounts and customer loyalty programs have their place, but creating such to cater to such a mindset would be a fool’s errand.

I don’t know, as someone else said various real-life stores do have loyalty schemes where spending enough gets you a discount or free stuff.

But it’s usually a very low rate of return, like every £1 you spend gets you 1 point and 100 points = £1 off. In other words spend £100 to save £1.

Still, if you’re going to spend money there anyway (and the points don’t expire) it’s better than nothing.

Ophidia Moonstone.2587:

I don’t feel “entitled” to Starbucks rewards points for purchasing coffee, but I do appreciate the program and it makes me feel better about buying a 6 dollar drink to know after I purchase so many of them I will get a freebie. The thing is sooner or later GW2 is going to have real competition from another MMO, and when they do you will most certainly see such schemes to encourage player loyalty… which is basically all this is, encouraging players to be loyal and spend $$$ on gems knowing that their loyalty will be “rewarded”.

I would have no issue with a loyalty program that, say, provided a small amount of gems free after volume gem purchases with cash. That kind of like-for-like bonus is closer to what I see.

However, that’s not what the OP is proposing. He wants a steep discount on XPacs, which serve the business purpose of providing a large infusion of cash to defray the expense of making new areas and content. He wants this discount at a rate which is a lot friendlier towards the consumer than any reward discounts I’ve see elsewhere by an order of magnitude. Finally, he offers that ANet should do this to appease a certain mindset.

To clarify, my objections are that not only are the suggested numbers egregiously unrealistic, a discount-based on gem purchase would not appease complainers who believe that a single purchase years ago should guarantee them discounted or even free access to all future XPacs.

OP says:

Personally (people will disagree with me) I do not feel this falls under any Pay-to-Win category either, since either way, a player is spending roughly the same amount of money for the same content, the gem purchases are just retroactively percentile based.

I don’t feel that the ‘same amount of money (spent) for the same content’ is true. Those spending money on Gems get not only the items/Gold for the Gems, but the Expansion as well; whereas the other spender(s) receive only the Expansion.

If I remember right WOW is around $15/month. That means we would only get 3 1/3 months of play for the price of the $50 expansion. Gem store purchases are nice, but I’ve never seen where they are needed to play the game. Just pretties and convenience. Which you can still get by trading gold into gems. I will buy the next expansion without feeling like I’ve been cheated because all the previous ones were included. Because I got to log on every day month after month to play and visit with friends without worrying if I have the money for this month’s subscription. I don’t feel I deserve a discount for the times I spent real money on gems for the same reason. It’s either the way it is now or monthly subscription fees. Even if it was $10 a month that would be $120/ year compared to $50 for what is soon to be a years worth of play. Things are fine the way they are.

I’d rather get a shiny. A single armor piece/weapon skin, a small decoration to my home instance or something like that. Just a little thing that says “hey, we know you’ve bought the previous releases (and/or lots of gems) and we appreciate it”.

themillwater.5846:

If I remember right WOW is around $15/month. That means we would only get 3 1/3 months of play for the price of the $50 expansion. Gem store purchases are nice, but I’ve never seen where they are needed to play the game. Just pretties and convenience. Which you can still get by trading gold into gems. I will buy the next expansion without feeling like I’ve been cheated because all the previous ones were included. Because I got to log on every day month after month to play and visit with friends without worrying if I have the money for this month’s subscription. I don’t feel I deserve a discount for the times I spent real money on gems for the same reason. It’s either the way it is now or monthly subscription fees. Even if it was $10 a month that would be $120/ year compared to $50 for what is soon to be a years worth of play. Things are fine the way they are.

Actually you wouldn’t even get 3 1/2 months. WoW charges for expansions as well, so for the cost of HoT you’d get permission to install the expansion and then you’d still have to pay $15 a month on top of that to actually play it.

As far as I know every MMO charges for expansions, single-player games certainly do. And I don’t know of any that gave a discount to existing players.

Conversely I do know of several that gave a discount to new players, usually by bundling things together. For example when the first WoW expansion came out they did the “Battle Chest” edition with both the base game and the expansion, ESO recently came out with a pack bundling the first 4 DLCs (mini expansions) together for 1/2 price. Most single-player games have a “Game of the Year” edition with the expansions included.

I didn’t even think about the cost of having to buy the WOW expansions in addition to the monthly fee. That makes me appreciate the way they do things even more. Otherwise I more than likely would not play with having to pay $160 for the time we’ve had HoT. Sheesh, maybe I should buy gems a little more often. I’ve already saved a load of money with the way they do things. Wonder what shines i could get…

PyrateSilly.4710:

sephiroth.4217:

If another expansion comes out for a full price of $50 again that includes base game and HoT, I will quit.

After HoT, not interested in another cash grab from this game just to be relevant in PvP. Sell off Living Stories or something.

Then don’t play any other MMO’s. Pretty much every MMO out there is now doing this when a new expansion comes out, the core and the older expansions are bundled with it for the same price.

This is the only MMO I’ve ever played and it was because my partner bought me the game, otherwise I would still be playing FFVII / FFVIII or Total Annihilation.

I’m mostly playing this game for WvW/PvP and the various combat mechanics though, so if they made an expansion that was WvW or PvP focused I would probably buy it, so who knows.

@ OP – Or we could just address the elephant in the room which was unsatisfactory price to content ratio of HoT. Give next xpac (which i feel is coming real soon) price adequate to it’s amount of content and all that price gauging and odd ways to bypass it jazz goes out the window with everyone being happy.

PyrateSilly.4710:

sephiroth.4217:

If another expansion comes out for a full price of $50 again that includes base game and HoT, I will quit.

After HoT, not interested in another cash grab from this game just to be relevant in PvP. Sell off Living Stories or something.

Then don’t play any other MMO’s. Pretty much every MMO out there is now doing this when a new expansion comes out, the core and the older expansions are bundled with it for the same price.

Please tell me which MMOs are doing this. Because atm this is the only one I’ve seen where this is the case.

I don’t mind Anet bundling Expacs with the game, every games does it eventually.
But having it at full-game price when the expac does not have a full-game worth of content and doesn’t give any sort of discount towards people who have already bought the game feels like giving a middle finger to those that bought the game before.

IF they are realeasing a new Xpac, and they are doing the same kitten they did with HoT. It better kitten be worth buying it from the perspective of someone who already has the game. Otherwise I’ll just again wait until it goes stupidly low price on a key site.

At first when I saw the HoT price, I honestly though Anet were joking or something.

Morte de Angelis.7986:

PyrateSilly.4710:

sephiroth.4217:

If another expansion comes out for a full price of $50 again that includes base game and HoT, I will quit.

After HoT, not interested in another cash grab from this game just to be relevant in PvP. Sell off Living Stories or something.

Then don’t play any other MMO’s. Pretty much every MMO out there is now doing this when a new expansion comes out, the core and the older expansions are bundled with it for the same price.

Please tell me which MMOs are doing this. Because atm this is the only one I’ve seen where this is the case.

WoW, for example. Well, not exactly in the same way but still.

Morte de Angelis.7986:

PyrateSilly.4710:

sephiroth.4217:

If another expansion comes out for a full price of $50 again that includes base game and HoT, I will quit. After HoT, not interested in another cash grab from this game just to be relevant in PvP. Sell off Living Stories or something.

Then don’t play any other MMO’s. Pretty much every MMO out there is now doing this when a new expansion comes out, the core and the older expansions are bundled with it for the same price.

Please tell me which MMOs are doing this. Because atm this is the only one I’ve seen where this is the case.
I don’t mind Anet bundling Expacs with the game, every games does it eventually.
But having it at full-game price when the expac does not have a full-game worth of content and doesn’t give any sort of discount towards people who have already bought the game feels like giving a middle finger to those that bought the game before.
IF they are realeasing a new Xpac, and they are doing the same kitten they did with HoT. It better kitten be worth buying it from the perspective of someone who already has the game. Otherwise I’ll just again wait until it goes stupidly low price on a key site.
At first when I saw the HoT price, I honestly though Anet were joking or something.

And this is where we disagree. I found the pricing normal for an expansion. So much so that I pre-purchased the Ultimate at $100 and was not one bit disappointed with the content and am still not one bit disappointed. Playing almost every day I have had my monies worth and more.

PyrateSilly.4710:

Morte de Angelis.7986:

PyrateSilly.4710:

sephiroth.4217:

If another expansion comes out for a full price of $50 again that includes base game and HoT, I will quit. After HoT, not interested in another cash grab from this game just to be relevant in PvP. Sell off Living Stories or something.

Then don’t play any other MMO’s. Pretty much every MMO out there is now doing this when a new expansion comes out, the core and the older expansions are bundled with it for the same price.

Please tell me which MMOs are doing this. Because atm this is the only one I’ve seen where this is the case.
I don’t mind Anet bundling Expacs with the game, every games does it eventually.
But having it at full-game price when the expac does not have a full-game worth of content and doesn’t give any sort of discount towards people who have already bought the game feels like giving a middle finger to those that bought the game before.
IF they are realeasing a new Xpac, and they are doing the same kitten they did with HoT. It better kitten be worth buying it from the perspective of someone who already has the game. Otherwise I’ll just again wait until it goes stupidly low price on a key site.
At first when I saw the HoT price, I honestly though Anet were joking or something.

And this is where we disagree. I found the pricing normal for an expansion. So much so that I pre-purchased the Ultimate at $100 and was not one bit disappointed with the content and am still not one bit disappointed. Playing almost every day I have had my monies worth and more.

I don’t know many expansions that have the price of the full game.
Maybe its just an MMO thing.

Morte de Angelis.7986:

PyrateSilly.4710:

Morte de Angelis.7986:

PyrateSilly.4710:

sephiroth.4217:

If another expansion comes out for a full price of $50 again that includes base game and HoT, I will quit. After HoT, not interested in another cash grab from this game just to be relevant in PvP. Sell off Living Stories or something.

Then don’t play any other MMO’s. Pretty much every MMO out there is now doing this when a new expansion comes out, the core and the older expansions are bundled with it for the same price.

Please tell me which MMOs are doing this. Because atm this is the only one I’ve seen where this is the case.
I don’t mind Anet bundling Expacs with the game, every games does it eventually.
But having it at full-game price when the expac does not have a full-game worth of content and doesn’t give any sort of discount towards people who have already bought the game feels like giving a middle finger to those that bought the game before.
IF they are realeasing a new Xpac, and they are doing the same kitten they did with HoT. It better kitten be worth buying it from the perspective of someone who already has the game. Otherwise I’ll just again wait until it goes stupidly low price on a key site.
At first when I saw the HoT price, I honestly though Anet were joking or something.

And this is where we disagree. I found the pricing normal for an expansion. So much so that I pre-purchased the Ultimate at $100 and was not one bit disappointed with the content and am still not one bit disappointed. Playing almost every day I have had my monies worth and more.

I don’t know many expansions that have the price of the full game.
Maybe its just an MMO thing.

Probably an mmo thing. WoW is $15 a month, the game has a cash shop and the current expansion is $70 for the digital version.

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