Guild Wars 2

bwillb.2165:

Basically says if it doesn’t automate gameplay (bots) or give a gameplay advantage (such as speed hacks, fly hacks, teleporting) it should be okay.

Allowing people to look around corners with an increased FoV is a gameplay advantage.

bwillb.2165:

mak.9027:

pay attention using Camera Tool, it’s not allowed, so you may be banned (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Is-this-camera-mod-legal/first#post281974)

Well, three things.

1. Gaile’s new post came out today. Basically says if it doesn’t automate gameplay (bots) or give a gameplay advantage (such as speed hacks, fly hacks, teleporting) it should be okay. This should be okay.

2. They currently have no third-party-app detection system. None. They rely on player reports for bots and fly-hacks and such. You can’t report someone for having a higher FoV, no way to know what FoV other people are using

3. Everyone should use the program until they take a more reasonable stance on this issue. What are they gonna do, ban 90% of their playerbase? Yeah, that would go over well.

Link to Gaile’s post?

Edit: Found it: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/account/Policy-Third-Party-Programs

Yeah, according to this….the camera mod doesn’t actually violate any of those rules. The problem is, I don’t trust that the rules are actually what will be enforced by ANet. The last thing I want is to be perma-banned for doing something that is technically OK, but they choose to ban for anyway.

Dude, I LOVE this. They NEED to increase field of view.

Jestunhi.7429:

bwillb.2165:

Basically says if it doesn’t automate gameplay (bots) or give a gameplay advantage (such as speed hacks, fly hacks, teleporting) it should be okay.

Allowing people to look around corners with an increased FoV is a gameplay advantage.

You can see names through walls… What advantage could looking around corners possibly give?

bwillb.2165:

Jestunhi.7429:

bwillb.2165:

Basically says if it doesn’t automate gameplay (bots) or give a gameplay advantage (such as speed hacks, fly hacks, teleporting) it should be okay.

Allowing people to look around corners with an increased FoV is a gameplay advantage.

You can see names through walls… What advantage could looking around corners possibly give?

Yeah… just look at the amount of names which are visible through the pillar!

http://imageshack.us/a/img513/1086/gw003wa.jpg

Hm looks like it depends on the area. I was going through caves in kessex and gendaran last night and saw a bunch of names through walls.

In any case, you can already get higher FoV with a wider window or a three-monitor setup if looking around corners is your thing. These are supported methods, that offer the same thing as the third party app.

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

@Ravenblade

I haven’t played a single PC game in the last couple years that didn’t have people complaining about FOV. Unless there’s a slider (sometimes even then) it’s almost like clockwork.

Almost every game I’ve played people have complaints about FoV. It was a big issue in Aion for a while for various reasons. I’m still a bit skeptical about why people are so vocal about it because it does give you an advantage when you can see more. Granted so does 3 monitors so that’s also an issue. And side note, your name makes me think of Ragnar Tornquist. Only other Ragnar I’ve heard of I think.

Does a significantly higher FoV give a huge advantage in WvW with arrow carts? That is, can you see behind walls that you wouldn’t normally be able to see behind if an arrow cart was placed away from the gate?

They currently have no third-party-app detection system. None. They rely on player reports for bots and fly-hacks and such.

However, I imagine they could manually blacklist the FoV program because they are already aware of its existence through this very thread and others.

Gilgamesh.2561:

However, I imagine they could manually blacklist the FoV program because they are already aware of its existence through this very thread and others.

They’d have to patch in a detector. There is nothing in the current code that can scan your computer for running processes.

Jestunhi.7429:

bwillb.2165:

Basically says if it doesn’t automate gameplay (bots) or give a gameplay advantage (such as speed hacks, fly hacks, teleporting) it should be okay.

Allowing people to look around corners with an increased FoV is a gameplay advantage.

if you get fov to 360° you still cant see behind corner… you need mirror for that

just sayin

That is BS, so only rich get to play it correctly, low fov = eyestrain.

Why was this thread https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Is-this-camera-mod-legal/first#post281974 removed? that was my thread but it has gone, does that mean the answer is no longer valid and we can use it?

FOV question… Is it nothing more than an aspect ratio thing? I have a 16:10 ratio monitor that appears to look just like the video posted later in the thread with the “better” FOV. And I’ve done nothing to alter in the methods mentioned. In the OPs video I notice that the portrait orientation allows for the wide aspect ratio and gain more vertical view. So I’m wondering if that is somehow a different aspect ratio or something that results in that. I’ve played tons of video games and never once thought I can’t see enough on my 16:10 monitor.

raxx.8914:

That is BS, so only rich get to play it correctly, low fov = eyestrain.

Why was this thread https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Is-this-camera-mod-legal/first#post281974 removed? that was my thread but it has gone, does that mean the answer is no longer valid and we can use it?

The CC that responded was just guessing, essentially. The official stance is the one provided by Gaile: They won’t approve or disapprove of any specific mod, you have to use your own judgement against their guidelines.

Yuck how can anyone play a game with those huge black borders?

RoRo.8270:

Yuck how can anyone play a game with those huge black borders?

Honestly, I used a multi monitor setup at work (where we play games sometimes) and you stop noticing it. At least I do.

I’d also like to point out that those monitor borders are pretty extreme. The ones I used at work were much thinner.

RoRo.8270:

Yuck how can anyone play a game with those huge black borders?

It’s like watching a movie letterbox. Sure, you have black borders at the top and bottom, but you are actually seeing more of the movie than the full screen TV versions.

I think he was talking about the monitor borders in middle of the 3-monitor setup. In which case, it’s like your nose, you just stop seeing it after a while until you think about it.

bwillb.2165:

Jestunhi.7429:

bwillb.2165:

Basically says if it doesn’t automate gameplay (bots) or give a gameplay advantage (such as speed hacks, fly hacks, teleporting) it should be okay.

Allowing people to look around corners with an increased FoV is a gameplay advantage.

You can see names through walls… What advantage could looking around corners possibly give?

People like you, who have absolutely no freaking clue about what they are talking about should keep their worthless opinion to themselves!

The FoV increase does NOT allow anyone to see THROUGH walls, this is not a wall hack.

Also, in order to be able to see behind corners, the person would need to set their FoV to an incredible extreme of 190 or higher. At that FoV, the fish eye gets so ridiculous that there is NO WAY to make out any names or class or the amount of people. At that point the only thing people can see around the corner is movement and nothing else.

Such high FoV that you are talking about (which again, Im pretty sure you are completely oblivious to what even FoV stands for) can only be considered good for FPS games, where death is but a second away from a skilled headshot. In an MMO like GW2 such stupidly high FoV is going to do nothing other than hinder the players ability to effectively play.

Here is an example of what happens when you go extreme with the FoV.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfArcszrEc8

Now please tell me the great game breaking advantage of people would would play like that?

Jia Shen.4217:

FOV question… Is it nothing more than an aspect ratio thing? I have a 16:10 ratio monitor that appears to look just like the video posted later in the thread with the “better” FOV. And I’ve done nothing to alter in the methods mentioned. In the OPs video I notice that the portrait orientation allows for the wide aspect ratio and gain more vertical view. So I’m wondering if that is somehow a different aspect ratio or something that results in that. I’ve played tons of video games and never once thought I can’t see enough on my 16:10 monitor.

As it is currently set up, there is only two ways to increase your FoV.

Use that third-party tool to increase the FoV on your monitor.

OR change the aspect ration of the game to be wider.

So go in to your Nvidia/AMD Control panel, create a custom resolution that will be wider than the one you have, like 1920×810 for example, and then load the game and change your in-game resolution to that custom one.

You will see a good FoV increase.

Naminator.9316:

bwillb.2165:

Jestunhi.7429:

bwillb.2165:

Basically says if it doesn’t automate gameplay (bots) or give a gameplay advantage (such as speed hacks, fly hacks, teleporting) it should be okay.

Allowing people to look around corners with an increased FoV is a gameplay advantage.

You can see names through walls… What advantage could looking around corners possibly give?

People like you, who have absolutely no freaking clue about what they are talking about should keep their worthless opinion to themselves!

The FoV increase does NOT allow anyone to see THROUGH walls, this is not a wall hack.

Also, in order to be able to see behind corners, the person would need to set their FoV to an incredible extreme of 190 or higher. At that FoV, the fish eye gets so ridiculous that there is NO WAY to make out any names or class or the amount of people. At that point the only thing people can see around the corner is movement and nothing else.

Such high FoV that you are talking about (which again, Im pretty sure you are completely oblivious to what even FoV stands for) can only be considered good for FPS games, where death is but a second away from a skilled headshot. In an MMO like GW2 such stupidly high FoV is going to do nothing other than hinder the players ability to effectively play.

Here is an example of what happens when you go extreme with the FoV.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfArcszrEc8

Now please tell me the great game breaking advantage of people would would play like that?

You misunderstood me, I was saying you can see names through walls without the FoV fix. But apparently its only in some areas. I’m actually one of the more annoying and talkative people in favor of an FoV slider

You know, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3, a game published by a company I usually despise, had some FoV issues as well. It’s a console port, what do you expect. Anyway, I don’t know if they ever fixed it, but they DID come out with a response saying, specifically, that they will not ban users for fixing the FoV with a third party app. So on this issue, ArenaNet, you’re making me like you less than I like Activision, and that is really hard to do.

bwillb.2165:

You know, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3, a game published by a company I usually despise, had some FoV issues as well. It’s a console port, what do you expect. Anyway, I don’t know if they ever fixed it, but they DID come out with a response saying, specifically, that they will not ban users for fixing the FoV with a third party app. So on this issue, ArenaNet, you’re making me like you less than I like Activision, and that is really hard to do.

I believe it’s fair to assume that it’s more about a general stance versus 3rd party applications which is not uncommon in MMOs. It’s not just about forbidding people to alleviate the problem but what these tools could potentially do as well. You’d be out to certify 3rd party applications for use with the game – easier to provide a solution by yourself really and we know they are currently not really forthcoming with that at the moment.

Third party apps are a big problem in CoD games as well. There are a lot of aimbots and wallhacks and such they watch out for, but specifically allowed the FoV program.

helladoom.4317:

mak.9027:

pay attention using Camera Tool, it’s not allowed, so you may be banned (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Is-this-camera-mod-legal/first#post281974)

" CC Eva: “I would like you to check this thread https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/account/Our-Policy-on-Third-Party-Programs/first#post269692
written by Gaile Gray concerning our policy on third-party programs. For the moment, that mod is not allowed.” "

The one post by GaileGray in that thread does not actually say the FOV mod is not allowed, it says it is under discussion.

So what gives? Why would changing something in GW2 that’s configurable in many other multiplayer games be cause for a ban?

Is larger FOV considered to be a cheat? If so, does that not mean a multi-monitor setup that enlarges FOV is also a cheat?

Because there are hacks out there that can be found using a similair search that also include fov,but some other things aswell,and people Will see them most likely when they go look for this fov tool,Wich in itself,is actually already a hack.This shouldnt be allowed,if they allow something like this,it will be pretty hard in the future to detect different kind of hacks.

bwillb.2165:

You know, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3, a game published by a company I usually despise, had some FoV issues as well. It’s a console port, what do you expect. Anyway, I don’t know if they ever fixed it, but they DID come out with a response saying, specifically, that they will not ban users for fixing the FoV with a third party app. So on this issue, ArenaNet, you’re making me like you less than I like Activision, and that is really hard to do.

Thats why I buy only CoD games that TreyArch releases.

Black Ops does have an FoV slider

Can somebody explain to me what’s FoV? what does it do?

Im thinking is something along the lines of.. Field of View??
like the range of stuff you can see??
i play on 1920×1080 and i dont see any problems with the resolution and stuff

o,o

I play on 5920 X 1080 on 3 monitors as well and I don’t have any problems…

Maximilious.6054:

I play on 5920 X 1080 on 3 monitors as well and I don’t have any problems…

I play 1920×1080 on 1 monitor and also have no problems.

Here’s my 2 cents. I’d love a FoV slider, so I’d feel better about playing Full Screen. I play the game in windowed mode and squish the window specifically due to the small FoV. Ironically I get a better FPS by squishing my window, but the game is taking up about 33% less screen space. It’d be nice to have at least have an FoV slider so I could still play in Full Screen mode.

I have to admit the official ANet response facilitated through Jon Peters sounds pretty weak. They would have been better served stating it’s an issue they’ll look into after camera smoothing. If they’re really worried about PvP, they should implement a fixed FoV for it.

Jestunhi.7429:

Maximilious.6054:

I play on 5920 X 1080 on 3 monitors as well and I don’t have any problems…

I play 1920×1080 on 1 monitor and also have no problems.

I’d have no “problems” playing this on an ancient 4:3 CRT, but that’s no reason to not have the best possible experience..

Shockwave.1230:

[…]
If they’re really worried about PvP, they should implement a fixed FoV for it.

This.

I don’t care if they find more reasonable to have a narrowed FoV for PvP fight mechanics, but when i have to look around and i’m not fighting, nor PvW’ing i’d like to take a good look at the surroundings without getting headache at every camera sway.

They could even use camera FoV and movements for dramatic effects, ie: wide FoV while walking, exploring, and then quickly narrowing it down, getting the camera closer when a fight starts.

It would be a feature rather than an annoyance like as now.

If they’re really worried about PvP, they should implement a fixed FoV for it.

To be honest, if they’re really worried about FoV imbalance in PvP, they need to pull their heads out of their collective kitten No serious PvPer is going to lose a fight just because the other guy had a slightly higher FoV. It just doesn’t happen. Even first person shooters, where FoV has a more significant role, get by fine with FoV sliders. You never hear anyone in TF2 say “ohh he beat me because of a higher FoV” do you?

Corew.8932:

I’d have no “problems” playing this on an ancient 4:3 CRT, but that’s no reason to not have the best possible experience..

The difference is, I don’t equate gaming with fish-eye effect as being the best possible experience.

Jestunhi.7429:

Corew.8932:

I’d have no “problems” playing this on an ancient 4:3 CRT, but that’s no reason to not have the best possible experience..

The difference is, I don’t equate gaming with fish-eye effect as being the best possible experience.

We’ve gone over this before, the fisheye only appears at extremely high values. Just like at extremely low values it looks like you’re looking through the hubble telescope. Also, even at high values, you don’t notice it during heated play because you’re focused on the middle 1/3 of your screen, the edges are in peripheral vision. If they implement a slider that goes from, say, 65 to 110, everyone is happy.

bwillb.2165:

We’ve gone over this before, the fisheye only appears at extremely high values. Just like at extremely low values it looks like you’re looking through the hubble telescope. Also, even at high values, you don’t notice it during heated play because you’re focused on the middle 1/3 of your screen, the edges are in peripheral vision. If they implement a slider that goes from, say, 65 to 110, everyone is happy.

Perhaps you don’t notice it…

Personally I don’t notice the existing FoV to be an issue, but I wouldn’t claim that no one else notices it just because I don’t.

I just tweaked my aspect ratio.

Oh. My. God. I can see again. For the past two weeks or so, I’ve had this odd blurriness in my vision, like I couldn’t focus on things properly. I was thinking about getting my glasses prescription checked, or wearing glasses at the computer (I only need for long distance till now). Turns out, it’s just the FOV messing around with my brain. If I had to guess, my brain is getting exhausted trying to translate the 70 degree FOV experience into the 80-90 deg that the monitor takes in my actual vision. It actually affected my vision away from the game after an our or two at GW2. I squinted, tried my glasses (nope, didn’t work- too close up to matter), adjusted my monitors color ratios, contrast, sharpness, resolution, antialiasing, even phase and clock. I used a professional photographers monitor calibration site and spent an hour getting my monitor to be as perfect as it technologically can, and spent another hour tweaking the color and curves in my video driver. Now, in 30 secs of adjusting aspect settings, I’m instantly cured.

I never would have thought such a simple thing had such a big effect. Anet: YOU MUST BACKPEDAL ON YOUR OFFICIAL POSITION. Add a FOV slider. It’s reprehensible that you will allow your product to harm your customers when a fix is so simple.

Oh, and I can do jumping puzzles now. That’s cool too. And my monitor has near perfect color balance now. So theres something.

Out of curiosity I set a custom 4:3 resolution (black bars at the sides) and it actually feels like the game was made with this resoultion in mind..

It probably was. But most of us have wide screen monitors now. Those that don’t, will soon- it’s the way the industry is headed.

I’d prefer a camera distance slider that works, than bother with a FOV slider thats not really needed.

well i actually read every post now, and the example and stuff

so FoV is just zooming out of your character?? -_-

yeah, that’s what i got from all of this, and yes is a simple thing

but it can gives you a LOT of advantages over people with a smaller FoV
lol!

i just pressed “Re Pag” and “Av Pag” to increase or reduce it and i always play it at max zoom out, why? because is better, obviously

so if u use a 3rd party program to make it even bigged, yeah it breaks the rules, it gives you an advantage over other players that dont use it, you can see more, and what some1 meant by “u can look around corners”
i think he meant like when u’r in a wall, and ther’s a turn in it, u can move ur camera till the point u see ur character from the side, and that u can see what’s next after the corner, a player with a smaller FoV will have toi be closer to the corner to do that, hence he could be detected/agrod or w/e

i always loved being able to zoom out a lot in other games but they all had it locked to a general max for the same reason
and using a program or moding a game file to break that barrier was banable (Lineage 2 had this same thing)

No…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_of_view

Maybe I should have linked this one instead..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_of_view_in_video_games

Nice! I wish I could turn my monitors like that though.

For ease of reference, here’s a graphic, courtesy of wikipedia. Field of view has nothing to do with camera zoom.

Mods, just deleted my comparison shots. Took them 1 min. I wanted to show them how we could have it but nooo.

Anyway, the field of view in this game is bad.

ConterK.3972:

well i actually read every post now, and the example and stuff

so FoV is just zooming out of your character?? -_-

yeah, that’s what i got from all of this, and yes is a simple thing

but it can gives you a LOT of advantages over people with a smaller FoV
lol!

i just pressed “Re Pag” and “Av Pag” to increase or reduce it and i always play it at max zoom out, why? because is better, obviously

so if u use a 3rd party program to make it even bigged, yeah it breaks the rules, it gives you an advantage over other players that dont use it, you can see more, and what some1 meant by “u can look around corners”
i think he meant like when u’r in a wall, and ther’s a turn in it, u can move ur camera till the point u see ur character from the side, and that u can see what’s next after the corner, a player with a smaller FoV will have toi be closer to the corner to do that, hence he could be detected/agrod or w/e

i always loved being able to zoom out a lot in other games but they all had it locked to a general max for the same reason
and using a program or moding a game file to break that barrier was banable (Lineage 2 had this same thing)

Well then it’s too bad people can already abuse this in pvp.

I’m considering squashing my window for pvp now as the fov boost is just amazing.

Oh and maybe they should start punishing Norn players since they get an amazing camera distance, while Asura are stuck feeling claustrophobic.

@Jestunhi: With a 3rd person camera you can always look around corners. Even with the default FoV.

From this list I’d say the GW2 camera tool isn’t bannable. Heck, if it would be for these reasons they would need to ban every single one who has more than 1 monitor and ban everyone who uses weird, as in, non-standard resolutions.

Corew.8932:

Out of curiosity I set a custom 4:3 resolution (black bars at the sides) and it actually feels like the game was made with this resoultion in mind..

I tried this too and I thought the same thing! You can actually see the sky. The more I played around with different resolutions the more I came to the conclusion that they just kittened up the calculations for the horizontal/vertical FoV for widescreen monitors.

Oh and I also want to add that I’ve taken a look at the GW2 camera tool. It certainly helps but it doesn’t really solve the problem.

edit: rewritten this part because it was confusing
Let me explain: You don’t actually change the FoV per se. (Technically you do) What you modify is the aspect ratio. But the ratio is botched from the beginning with widescreen monitors. You CAN bring it to a value so the vertical FoV is comfortable but that leads to the technical problems Jon was talking about. I tried this in Orr and after some minutes I had frame issues. Result, absolutely unplayable! To get the vertical FoV to a good value the horizontal value had to be so high that my computer couldn’t handle it. (Geforce 580GTX and i7, so I have not the highest end system but high)

I made so many tests, screenshots and comparisons over the last few days and I can only say that the 4:3 aspect ratio is the most comfortable one. As I said, I also tried out the tool to see if this is really the answer to all our problems but for me personally I must admit it’s not.

Maybe a mod can ask a dev why 4:3 is so different to 16:9. It SHOULD have the same vertical FoV but it doesn’t!

Here’s a screenshot comparison taken with max zoom:
4:3 (custom resolution 1920×1440) – the lion’s head is clearly visible
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/35298245/gw598.jpg[/img]
16:9 (my default resolution 2560×1440) – the lion’s head is cut at the eyes
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/35298245/gw597.jpg

Sorry, I don’t know why the BB code isn’t working

I wish I still had my old ws monitor, they used to be 1920×1200 instead of 1920×1080, I have a feeling that monitor would work better with this game.

Enzi.5496:

Here’s a screenshot comparison taken with max zoom:
4:3 (custom resolution 1920×1440) – the lion’s head is clearly visible
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/35298245/gw598.jpg[/img]
16:9 (my default resolution 2560×1440) – the lion’s head is cut at the eyes
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/35298245/gw597.jpg

Sorry, I don’t know why the BB code isn’t working

take the screenies both with or without the UI

on the 16:9 u lose vertical FOV but u get more horizontal FOV

shouldnt be that way tho!

Enzi.5496:

Here’s a screenshot comparison taken with max zoom:
4:3 (custom resolution 1920×1440) – the lion’s head is clearly visible
[img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/35298245/gw598.jpg[/img]
16:9 (my default resolution 2560×1440) – the lion’s head is cut at the eyes
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/35298245/gw597.jpg

Sorry, I don’t know why the BB code isn’t working

That 4:3 actually looks a lot like Guild Wars 1’s vertical FoV. Definitely an improvement.

oh, another advantage
in the same note as be4

players with a higher FOV (longer zoom out option) would be able to watch over walls just by staning close to the wall and move ur camera on top of your character head, with a long enough zoom out, u should be able to see what’s on the other side of a wall, for example on WvW