Open raid content is amazing!
If the raid content can be done in private instances, it will no longer be “open.”
The raid bosses and mechanics are amazing indeed. But is very very frustrating for players with high ping such as Australian when they get disconnect and they have to wait for 2-3 more hours to get back in
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Anet has demonstrated that they can, indeed, design interesting mechanics if they tried. However, I feel that not every raid has to be open world. In fact, please give us some instanced raids balanced for 20-30 players, so single guilds can just go at them and do world record runs on.
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That being said….allow groups and guilds to form their own private overflows where random people can’t get in and ruin entire guilds from doing content together. Add in that feature and your open raid content will be absolutely PERFECT!
This seems like a slick way of asking for what others have asked for in other threads lately – instanced raid content.
I really hope they never add in instanced raid content. I love open world raiding, I love that I can log on and jump to the zone and be a part of something fun without having to worry about being invited to a group. It’s nice to just jump in and not worry about being kicked if my gear or spec isn’t what the raid leaders want it to be.
Devs, you’re current open raid content is great as it is! No need to mess it up by making them instanced!
That being said….allow groups and guilds to form their own private overflows where random people can’t get in and ruin entire guilds from doing content together. Add in that feature and your open raid content will be absolutely PERFECT!
This seems like a slick way of asking for what others have asked for in other threads lately – instanced raid content.
I really hope they never add in instanced raid content. I love open world raiding, I love that I can log on and jump to the zone and be a part of something fun without having to worry about being invited to a group. It’s nice to just jump in and not worry about being kicked if my gear or spec isn’t what the raid leaders want it to be.
Devs, you’re current open raid content is great as it is! No need to mess it up by making them instanced!
It’s already instanced. Just make a hard instance for players who don’t want to do the overflow dance.
It’s not a question of if or will they do instanced raid content…just when.
It’s still in the open world though, even if it’s in a private overflow. One could say that once a main server is capped it’s no longer “open world” as well.
Every zone in the game is an instance—that’s the way software works. However, it would be wrong to call the content instanced. It should be but it’s not.
I have three reasons why raiding type content should not take place in the open world:
1. Just as form follows function, open world PvE should be designed for the player you find there, i.e., a wide diversity of players in terms of skill, not in communication, and having the occasional griefer present. A moments thought should reveal that truly challenging content should be delivered in a manner that accounts for this.
2. Living World. When you raise the LW among design goals it becomes important that you populate and make vibrant the living world. Any event innappropriate for the open world will serve to empty the now dead world where it takes place. Teq is a good example of this. Just take a mental before and after shot.
3. Technical limitations. This is the practical reason. Anet shouldn’t provide content that it can’t support. Do these events actually work? You can know this yourself; try a thought experiment. A friend notifies you the event is beginning on your server. You head over and what you find when you arrive is a pacific world with nothing happening. Here is a problem with poorly implemented instances. Sure you can devote hours to the event, but why should you have to employ workarounds that waste your, the players, time.
These are my top three reasons why, however amazing the content is, it should be delivered in instances and not in the open world.
(edited by Raine.1394)
^ but many people don’t want instanced raid. That’s why it is much better to do private overflow instead! >
^ but many people don’t want instanced raid. That’s why it is much better to do private overflow instead! >
Many people do want this type of content instanced. The best thing for Anet to do is to apply critical thinking and make this content instanced. I’m fine if people want to call it a private overflow rather than an instance. GW2 has all manner of confusing terms and labels and one more won’t hurt anything.
^ Many people dont’ want instanced raid, so they suggest 10-20 man difficult instanced dungeon which require coordination on the living world forum.
Go figure!
^ but many people don’t want instanced raid. That’s why it is much better to do private overflow instead! >
Many people do want this type of content instanced. The best thing for Anet to do is to apply critical thinking and make this content instanced. I’m fine if people want to call it a private overflow rather than an instance. GW2 has all manner of confusing terms and labels and one more won’t hurt anything.
I don’t think it actually matters that many people want this, though. It’s not enough to say many people want this. Many people want stealth removed from the game too. Just because people want this doesn’t mean it will benefit the game, or Anet’s vision for the game.
People keep saying Anet has no vision for the game, but I think they do. And I think that vision is pushing content, more and more, to the open world. Doing less and less in instances.
They keep talking about a living/breathing world. That’s pretty much their current motto. This is where they want to go. Which means they want the playerbase playing in the open world.
You start making instanced raids and you lose those people from the world. They might be happy, but it might not work for what Anet is attempting to do.
Before Anet would make such a drastic change to their vision for this game (the one they’re pushing forward aggressively and currently working on), you’d have to know how many people feel that way, compared to how many people who would hate it.
If this becomes another raiding game, where people wait around in cities for their queues to pop, I know I won’t be very happy.
If this becomes another raiding game, where people wait around in cities for their queues to pop, I know I won’t be very happy.
Think this through. Think about how these events actually work. Are you saying that waiting at one spot in the open world is preferable to waiting at one spot in a city?
Supporting a living world is one of the reasons I believe true raid-like events should be instanced. Because they are inappropriate for the open world, they will only serve to empty the world in which they take place. Sure there will be some interest initially and Teq is a good example. Go there and you will find it dead compared to what it was before. Open world raids are bad for the living world. If this is the direction they want to take the game, open world raiding is the last thing they should do.
I really do love the marionette fight and I love it being open-world, casually-organised (just turn up and jump in!).
That said, some work on networking and server mechanics to make it more convenient to participate would be very much appreciated. Overflow and everything about it is a royal pain that prompts lots of waiting around to have fun in order to save yourself a space on the main server, difficulty organising players in the right numbers, and difficulty playing with the people you want to play with. Disconnects that result in being booted from the server you were in and/or loss of credit/achievements are equally frustrating. If these issues were made less problematic, open world raid events would be massively successful in this game.
Yeah, I personally really like these events. The Marionette is my favorite in the game right now and I am really sad that it’s only temporary. Please Anet, make it permanent some how!
I do not want these big events shoved in some small instance. That would ruin part of what makes them fun…their massive scale. That doesn’t mean I’m against instanced content for large groups. If they want to add that in as well, I won’t complain. But just don’t take away these open world events.
I would like to keep Marionette as a lot of people. Why not making a guild mission out of it after the “Living Story” time is served? It could have 3 tiers (tier 3 as it is now, tier 2 with only 2 lanes, tier 1 with 1 lane – but still 5 different wardens, meaning that in tier 1 you have to defend the same lane 5 times and must enter the arenas in every phase). I am pretty sure that would be a really great event for a guild to do this.
NO CONTENT should be instanced. It should be ALL open world. If you want instances go back to GW1 or WoW.
Instanced content KILLS the open world.
This game was sold on the open world dynamic event and they’ve spent extremely too much time on instanced content. It’s time to get back to what was promised.
(edited by uhohhotdog.3598)
NO CONTENT should be instanced. It should be ALL open world. If you want instances go back to GW1 or WoW.
Instanced content KILLS the open world.
This game was sold on the open world dynamic event and they’ve spent extremely too much time on instanced content. It’s time to get back to what was promised.
Go away ….
The best way to tell a story is through story driven instances, and among other things I play Gw2 mostly because of its lore and I’m anticipating the next installment of the LS to learn more about Scarlet’s twisted plan. Be honest and tell me that the last Kasmeer/Marjory story instance wasn’t emotional
If this becomes another raiding game, where people wait around in cities for their queues to pop, I know I won’t be very happy.
Think this through. Think about how these events actually work. Are you saying that waiting at one spot in the open world is preferable to waiting at one spot in a city?
Supporting a living world is one of the reasons I believe true raid-like events should be instanced. Because they are inappropriate for the open world, they will only serve to empty the world in which they take place. Sure there will be some interest initially and Teq is a good example. Go there and you will find it dead compared to what it was before. Open world raids are bad for the living world. If this is the direction they want to take the game, open world raiding is the last thing they should do.
Some people are waiting at one spot and some people aren’t. That’s the point. If they have to be in that zone anyway….which they do, they’re now NOT in a city, that’s the point.
Did you see what Kessex was like during the last living story. It had been a mostly dead zone and suddenly it had it’s own champ train.
But if you make it an instance that anyone can just enter, at any time, from any city, yes, that WILL take people out of the world.
You didn’t see people running all over Lornar’s Pass this week? Because I sure did.
If this becomes another raiding game, where people wait around in cities for their queues to pop, I know I won’t be very happy.
Think this through. Think about how these events actually work. Are you saying that waiting at one spot in the open world is preferable to waiting at one spot in a city?
Supporting a living world is one of the reasons I believe true raid-like events should be instanced. Because they are inappropriate for the open world, they will only serve to empty the world in which they take place. Sure there will be some interest initially and Teq is a good example. Go there and you will find it dead compared to what it was before. Open world raids are bad for the living world. If this is the direction they want to take the game, open world raiding is the last thing they should do.
Some people are waiting at one spot and some people aren’t. That’s the point. If they have to be in that zone anyway….which they do, they’re now NOT in a city, that’s the point.
Did you see what Kessex was like during the last living story. It had been a mostly dead zone and suddenly it had it’s own champ train.
But if you make it an instance that anyone can just enter, at any time, from any city, yes, that WILL take people out of the world.
You didn’t see people running all over Lornar’s Pass this week? Because I sure did.
And Kessex Hills is dead again, and so will be Lornar’s Pass after super mario is gone.
LS is a bandaid fix with a best before date written on it.
And if I wait an hour in a zone being it a city or somewhere else, just to be part of a raid, it is still waiting for a raid.
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If this becomes another raiding game, where people wait around in cities for their queues to pop, I know I won’t be very happy.
Think this through. Think about how these events actually work. Are you saying that waiting at one spot in the open world is preferable to waiting at one spot in a city?
Supporting a living world is one of the reasons I believe true raid-like events should be instanced. Because they are inappropriate for the open world, they will only serve to empty the world in which they take place. Sure there will be some interest initially and Teq is a good example. Go there and you will find it dead compared to what it was before. Open world raids are bad for the living world. If this is the direction they want to take the game, open world raiding is the last thing they should do.
Some people are waiting at one spot and some people aren’t. That’s the point. If they have to be in that zone anyway….which they do, they’re now NOT in a city, that’s the point.
Did you see what Kessex was like during the last living story. It had been a mostly dead zone and suddenly it had it’s own champ train.
But if you make it an instance that anyone can just enter, at any time, from any city, yes, that WILL take people out of the world.
You didn’t see people running all over Lornar’s Pass this week? Because I sure did.
And Kessex Hills is dead again, and so will be Lornar’s Pass after super mario is gone.
LS is a bandaid fix with a best before date written on it.And if I wait an hour in a zone being it a city or somewhere else, just to be part of a raid, it is still waiting for a raid.
Exactly so. That’s how it works. The world doesn’t go to waste. We’re not always in the same zone.
There will never be enough people to fill every zone of every map. Never enough encouragement to get people to every zone.
But there are now people in specific zones. And there’s other stuff Anet does/is doing to get people into other zones. Having a achievement where you have to destroy towers in five different zones does get people into different zones.
It doesn’t mean the entire world needs to be full at the same time. Getting people into a zone for a couple of weeks is good for the game, not bad for the game.
I for one welcome our open world raid content.
If this becomes another raiding game, where people wait around in cities for their queues to pop, I know I won’t be very happy.
Think this through. Think about how these events actually work. Are you saying that waiting at one spot in the open world is preferable to waiting at one spot in a city?
Supporting a living world is one of the reasons I believe true raid-like events should be instanced. Because they are inappropriate for the open world, they will only serve to empty the world in which they take place. Sure there will be some interest initially and Teq is a good example. Go there and you will find it dead compared to what it was before. Open world raids are bad for the living world. If this is the direction they want to take the game, open world raiding is the last thing they should do.
Some people are waiting at one spot and some people aren’t. That’s the point. If they have to be in that zone anyway….which they do, they’re now NOT in a city, that’s the point.
Did you see what Kessex was like during the last living story. It had been a mostly dead zone and suddenly it had it’s own champ train.
But if you make it an instance that anyone can just enter, at any time, from any city, yes, that WILL take people out of the world.
You didn’t see people running all over Lornar’s Pass this week? Because I sure did.
And Kessex Hills is dead again, and so will be Lornar’s Pass after super mario is gone.
LS is a bandaid fix with a best before date written on it.And if I wait an hour in a zone being it a city or somewhere else, just to be part of a raid, it is still waiting for a raid.
Yes and No, sure Kessex is deader then it was during nightmare tower LS episode but it still got more people then used to be there pre nightmare tower. I suppose some are there to see the sights while others to play the new events.
The invasions still attract players in different zones while Wurm will attract more people to bloodtide at least on servers who will try to farm it.
Likewise the Karka queen got some players to play in Southsun while champion loot changes funnel more people in frostgorge and queensdale
Like Vayne said no update will manage to breath life in every zone, people will always favor the new content and they will always gravitate towards the most profitable content but if all these events where instanced instead of adding players into the zones where these events take place you will be taking people from the open world and hiding them into the different instance.
My server has way less people on it because everyone is guesting over to a higher pop server to wait around for these events.
If they offered the choice of an instanced event people could spend their time enjoying the game instead of waiting in one zone.
I like to spend my time on WvW but if I want to participate in one of these events with any of my friends I have to guest over at least an hour before it starts instead of being able to do what I enjoy doing.
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You’ve been releasing some of the best and most enjoyable raid content in any MMO I’ve seen. Truly challenging content that requires lots of preparation and learning, while at the same time requiring a MASSIVE amount of people all to be coordinated perfectly. I was in the group that got server first on SOR downing Teq, and it was one of the most memorable moments in my entire gaming history. Downing the Marionette for the first time was just as exciting, and I know downing the Wurms will be amazing too. I’m loving it, as are many many other players.
That being said….allow groups and guilds to form their own private overflows where random people can’t get in and ruin entire guilds from doing content together. Add in that feature and your open raid content will be absolutely PERFECT!
You do realize that your request at the end would be to make this non-open raid content, right?
I understand that your intent is to defend ANet because you’ve enjoyed these encounters, but your suggestion indicates that you agree with the premise of the other thread (“Face it devs, open raid content doesn’t work!”) — this content would be better if it wasn’t open world raid content.
Personally, I wish ANet had more respect for players’ time; I play to have fun, and I don’t want a reward for a poor effort — but I do expect the game not to waste my time. The developers seem happy with solutions which involve wasting players’ time.
Well, this is your point of view.
I find Tequatle and Wurm the most annoying bosses EVER.
Looong looong waiting around, no way to choose overflow or to play with guild only, terrible loot and scripted spawns/mechanics that makes them rly ’’artificial’’.
It’s probably the worst LS update i played since Tequatle, and for THE SAME reason, they didn’t improve anything in the gameplay, just changed enemy.
So, i played Wurm 5 times, Marionette 12, and never succeded(even guesting), not even ONCE. I’m not here to lose time or to BE played by the game. It’s worse than prepare WoW raids to prepare to do these ‘’world bosses’’.
Not playing anymore until 4th Feb., very very disappointed and kittened.
PS: I hope Deso Pro-players spend a lot on gemstore, because i’m not going to be ’’milked’’ anymore.
^ but many people don’t want instanced raid. That’s why it is much better to do private overflow instead! >
Many people do want this type of content instanced. The best thing for Anet to do is to apply critical thinking and make this content instanced. I’m fine if people want to call it a private overflow rather than an instance. GW2 has all manner of confusing terms and labels and one more won’t hurt anything.
Lol totally agree.
I have in the past wanted instanced raiding for a variety of reasons… One being so that I could control the group going in to ensure good coordination and another being so that my guild could do this as a group activity that we could schedule.. on our time, not a timer…
Now, the marionette has been a great fight for us. We’ve participated quite a bit but it still requires us to gather with a large group of other people that may or may not know the fights.. and sometimes are unwilling to learn them choosing to ignore everyone and just do as they please… which is fine, play how you want… but it seems not so great that this can be done to the detriment of other groups of players (i.e. my guild can try as hard as they like but we are not the deciding factor in the success of this event).
I still think it would be nice to have instanced raids as guild missions.. but even raids like this in the open world that were guild missions, to me, would be a huge step to help give guilds more activities to do together. At least then we could start it when we want and the area may or may not be crowded by other players as this event wouldn’t be on a timer that everyone would know about… people passing by could join, but we wouldn’t have 100 people not in our guild potentially causing the encounter to be more difficult than it should be (because they’re not coordinating with us and it scales beyond our coordinated numbers) waiting around for it to start and causing overflows.
*edited for clarity.. I hope.
Slow down and smell the pixels.
(edited by callidus.7085)
Yay, stuff that only large zerg guilds think they deserve to see.
So much fun.
^ but many people don’t want instanced raid. That’s why it is much better to do private overflow instead! >
Many people do want this type of content instanced. The best thing for Anet to do is to apply critical thinking and make this content instanced. I’m fine if people want to call it a private overflow rather than an instance. GW2 has all manner of confusing terms and labels and one more won’t hurt anything.
I don’t think it actually matters that many people want this, though. It’s not enough to say many people want this. Many people want stealth removed from the game too. Just because people want this doesn’t mean it will benefit the game, or Anet’s vision for the game.
People keep saying Anet has no vision for the game, but I think they do. And I think that vision is pushing content, more and more, to the open world. Doing less and less in instances.
They keep talking about a living/breathing world. That’s pretty much their current motto. This is where they want to go. Which means they want the playerbase playing in the open world.
You start making instanced raids and you lose those people from the world. They might be happy, but it might not work for what Anet is attempting to do.
Before Anet would make such a drastic change to their vision for this game (the one they’re pushing forward aggressively and currently working on), you’d have to know how many people feel that way, compared to how many people who would hate it.
If this becomes another raiding game, where people wait around in cities for their queues to pop, I know I won’t be very happy.
Too late. The content is already being instanced whether you like it or not.
The vast majority of kills for Teq happen in unique overflows by raiding guilds. Same will happen for worm.
The metrics are already there regardless of what anyone wants to believe. Prepare to be unhappy.
Yay, stuff that only large zerg guilds think they deserve to see.
So much fun.
My guild is by no means a “large zerg guild” (on guild mission night we get around 20 people but we’re coordinated and can get all the missions done.. except bounty 3)…
I would love to see this for everyone. Who here gave you that impression? A new guild mission type with fights like marionette (that could scale from 10 – 40 or so people.. there are tweeks they could make to the fight to make it accomplishable with those numbers) would benefit all guilds I would think.. and that’s what I’m advocating anyway.
I hope others feel at least remotely similar… more content for guilds would be cool.
Slow down and smell the pixels.
NO CONTENT should be instanced. It should be ALL open world. If you want instances go back to GW1 or WoW.
Instanced content KILLS the open world.
This game was sold on the open world dynamic event and they’ve spent extremely too much time on instanced content. It’s time to get back to what was promised.
Well, of course that can’t be true. We have instanced content right now and the open world does not suffer for it. Content should be designed for the environment. Truly challenging content should be delivered in instances which is the environment with all the features to deal with it. Got a griefer? Kick him. It’s actually straightforward.
And, open world challenging content objectively kills the open world. Want to know whether this is true? Just go look at the open world around Teq. It used to be alive and now it’s all but dead.
I don’t think it works very well. Good content needs to be designed to accommodate the targeted playerbase they’re designed for. The open world consists of anyone and everyone, from the elite Ascended-clad pro to the newbie in greens who just started the game 3 days ago.
That means you’re going to be designing content for the lowest denominator, as otherwise it just won’t work because you can’t kick the green-clad newbie out of the open world.
And thats exactly what’s happening here, we got content not designed for the lowest denominator being played by the lowest denominator. It just turns into a complete mess where the fail rate is so high that its depressing to play the content.
I know that Anet is trying to be inclusive of everyone but raids aren’t for everyone. Just like you don’t go challenging the Elite Four with your first pikachu, you don’t go raiding on the first week of playing the game with your greens and bare minimum knowledge of playing the game.
Also, I still don’t really understand how did they even do any sort of balancing with those world bosses. Each of them has a hard DPS check, but what is that DPS check balanced around? 80 people? 20 people? Greens? Exotics? Level 30s? Level 80s? You can’t make a DPS check around completely unknown parameters, which is why the old concept of world bosses having no timers or any DPS checks made sense, but now they have DPS checks, its just a mess of either the check being too low or too high.
Also, as far as I can see on Underworld (and I tend to think we’re a pretty big PvE server), this open-world content barely even gets done in the open world, but gets done through exploiting the overflows, which basically turns it into instanced raids with awkward waiting times of up to a hour.
I thought one visit to most PvE servers when Tequatl spawned would have made Anet rethink their ideas of open world raids, but I guess not, because they just made 2 more of them.
(edited by Xae Isareth.1364)
I think the key is to make the 2 hour wait in the zone something interesting, like how the orr assaults work (balthazar)
The boss itself is only a short timer, but it takes a while to get to that point. I think if the big content instead had some pre-events it wouldn’t be so waity.
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^ but many people don’t want instanced raid. That’s why it is much better to do private overflow instead! >
Many people do want this type of content instanced. The best thing for Anet to do is to apply critical thinking and make this content instanced. I’m fine if people want to call it a private overflow rather than an instance. GW2 has all manner of confusing terms and labels and one more won’t hurt anything.
If this becomes another raiding game, where people wait around in cities for their queues to pop, I know I won’t be very happy.
This hasn’t been true in the “raiding game” for over 4 years now. Dungeon finder can be queued from anywhere. The PvP browser, being either battlegrounds or arena can be queue from anywhere. The same goes for raid finder/scenarios/flex raid.
People keep bringing up this argument even though it hasn’t been relevant for years.
^ but many people don’t want instanced raid. That’s why it is much better to do private overflow instead! >
Many people do want this type of content instanced. The best thing for Anet to do is to apply critical thinking and make this content instanced. I’m fine if people want to call it a private overflow rather than an instance. GW2 has all manner of confusing terms and labels and one more won’t hurt anything.
If this becomes another raiding game, where people wait around in cities for their queues to pop, I know I won’t be very happy.
This hasn’t been true in the “raiding game” for over 4 years now. Dungeon finder can be queued from anywhere. The PvP browser, being either battlegrounds or arena can be queue from anywhere. The same goes for raid finder/scenarios/flex raid.
People keep bringing up this argument even though it hasn’t been relevant for years.
Besides, that’s really largely to blame on the trinity. Its not like people wont want to raid, its more like LF Healer/Tank all the time.
GW2 won’t really have that problem.