Guild Wars 2

Hi,

As you may have seen, some of us are trying to get together to put together a fan made Guild Wars tabletop RPG. We want to create a new system to do this. This will be a free project, with NO monetary gain, and freely distributed. However, there is a concern about the “legal” aspects of it. I personally feel that as long as the system uses the Open Game License, and made available we should be fine. I am just wondering if there were any legal matters concerning the copyrighted works, characters, names, places, history, etc. of Anet in relation to Guild Wars that would prevent us from doing this.

I understand that Guild Wars art, music, fanfic, etc. is something that is “protected”. I have seen some dev posts concerning 3D printed characters from the game, and IIRC it was ok to do so as long as it was for “personal” use, and not for profit.

Would such an endevor also be “protected” as long as it’s for “personal/community” use, and not to be sold? Any dev clarification on this would be most helpful. Thanks!!!

If you credit your source material, and are gaining no money in the end and you make sure you claim you are unaffiliated with ANet youre probably all set but dont quote me as I AM NOT A LAWYER SO IM NOT 100% SURE.

This may prove informative: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-content-terms-of-use/

Although it says you can use Guild Wars intellectual property for personal use, it does state you can not use it to create games, etc. without prior permission.

You may be taking a chance.

Good luck.

personal use is a term that’s used so only you are able to use it in the way you want it, when you put it in a public game it’s not on personal use anymore now is it.
if i take a wallpaper of GW2 and modify it the way i like it, no one is gonna stop it but the moment i use it in a game that right stops right there.

i think it’s all subjective tho, wait for Anet to comment and we’ll see.

Plenty of online resources to figure this out if you look around… you’re probably safe since it’s not for money, just get your licensing straight… assuming you get anywhere with it. I had many such ideas when I was younger that I never had the patience or interest to see through.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

This may prove informative: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-content-terms-of-use/

Although it says you can use Guild Wars intellectual property for personal use, it does state you can not use it to create games, etc. without prior permission.

You may be taking a chance.

Good luck.

The only thing I can find in reference to using any Guild Wars content is here:

Can I write a story, book, poem, musical composition, etc., based on your game?
We appreciate the creative processes and the passion of our fans, but it’s essential that we maintain commercial control over our product. Therefore, commercial productions are all sourced from ArenaNet and/or NCsoft.

However, as long as such usage follows the parameters listed above, we do permit the use of our game world and our characters in literary or musical pieces intended for personal use only, such as those posted on or released through a non-profit website. We do not permit the unauthorized use of our game world, our characters, or any other elements of our game in any form that involves profit or commercial benefit, such as novels, short stories, articles, unauthorized contest or competition entries, screenplays, action figures, theatrical productions, or other adaptations of our game.

So this project would seem to fall into the perimeters outlined here:
•The content must be used in a non-commercial context for private, personal use only
•You must include all copyright and other notices associated with the content
•You acknowledge and agree that no title nor any other form of ownership to the content has been or will be transferred to you from ArenaNet nor from anyone else
•You agree that you will not alter, disassemble, decompile, reverse-engineer or in any other way modify the content
•You agree that ArenaNet has the right to require removal of our content at any time, for any reason

But I would need more confirmation before we move too far into this project.

It really depends on a few things, if you try to sell it (even to just break even), how it reflects on Anet (you’re more likely to get sued if they don’t like it), if it feels like you’re competing with them for their customers, other stuff like that….

In truth any kind of fan art (or fan based work like your game) is copyright infringement, however if you can get permission than it’ll make your game a lot safer to develop.

Thanks Gaile!!

I hope we can move forward with this project and not have to worry about breaking and copyright stuff, or be in violation of anything. It just makes it easier if everyone involved is on the same page.

there is nothing that can be done as long as you gain no money, do not claim to be affiliated with ANET or NCSOFT or the official franchise. that’s how mmo private servers can exist for years until they get greedy

It’s always good courtesy to write directly to the company. My friend did this with a tabletop wargame game based on an mmo and they allowed him certain use of the brand and also the provision of artwork iirc.

Randulf.7614:

It’s always good courtesy to write directly to the company. My friend did this with a tabletop wargame game based on an mmo and they allowed him certain use of the brand and also the provision of artwork iirc.

Nice!

I did send an email, as direction in the CToU, and did recieve a response. Basically, what we are trying to do should be covered in the CToU and we should be fine. As long as (as pointed out various times) we are not trying to sell it, or trying to make it an offical product.

What about fan videogames ? After their CToU, are these legal ?

mahri.8410:

What about fan videogames ? After their CToU, are these legal ?

I would imagine as long as it didn’t violate any of the terms, was not for sale or used for any monetary gain, then yes. Of course such a project would be an even bigger task than creating a tabletop RPG.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Although it says you can use Guild Wars intellectual property for personal use, it does state you can not use it to create games, etc. without prior permission.

You may be taking a chance.

Not just taking a chance; they would be violating the terms of use. Those terms are there for good reasons. Robin Hobb gives a good detailed explanation regarding such policies on the FAQ for her website at http://www.robinhobb.com/faq/

The very last question there is almost identical to the one posed in this thread.

Here’s an excerpt from it:

Or if the game developer purchases the rights and markets the game, the game developer may later take issue with someone else doing for free what he has paid for. The game developer may see it as a copyright infringement on the rights he has purchased. Or the person who has made the amateur RP may look at the game developer and say, “You took a lot of the ideas that I first came up with for my RP and used them in your game that you sold for money. That’s not fair!”

Often, when an author sells a publisher the right to publish a book, the contract will specify that the publisher can sell ‘sub rights’ as in movie rights or merchandise rights or gaming rights. If the publisher does sell those rights, then the author and the publisher share in the income from those rights. The publisher might not be happy to discover that the author had already given someone those rights for free.

This is why all rights permissions have to go through my agent. The agent keeps track of what rights have been purchased and by whom. If a writer gives someone permission to make a comic or an audio book version and at the same time the agent is negotiating a sale of those rights, things can get very messy for everyone, with possible law suits.

In this context she’s talking about her novels, but the same would hold true for other forms of entertainment, like movies and video games.

Bernie.8674:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Although it says you can use Guild Wars intellectual property for personal use, it does state you can not use it to create games, etc. without prior permission.

You may be taking a chance.

Not just taking a chance; they would be violating the terms of use. Those terms are there for good reasons. Robin Hobb gives a good detailed explanation regarding such policies on the FAQ for her website at http://www.robinhobb.com/faq/

Here’s an excerpt from it:

Or if the game developer purchases the rights and markets the game, the game developer may later take issue with someone else doing for free what he has paid for. The game developer may see it as a copyright infringement on the rights he has purchased. Or the person who has made the amateur RP may look at the game developer and say, “You took a lot of the ideas that I first came up with for my RP and used them in your game that you sold for money. That’s not fair!”

Often, when an author sells a publisher the right to publish a book, the contract will specify that the publisher can sell ‘sub rights’ as in movie rights or merchandise rights or gaming rights. If the publisher does sell those rights, then the author and the publisher share in the income from those rights. The publisher might not be happy to discover that the author had already given someone those rights for free.

This is why all rights permissions have to go through my agent. The agent keeps track of what rights have been purchased and by whom. If a writer gives someone permission to make a comic or an audio book version and at the same time the agent is negotiating a sale of those rights, things can get very messy for everyone, with possible law suits.

In this context she’s talking about her novels, but the same would hold true for other forms of entertainment, like movies and video games.

First the CToU doesn’t say anything about creating a game based on Guild Wars. It does specifically state that you cannot create add-ons or expansions for any Arena Net games, and to use any of their art or images for toys, clothing etc. requires written permission.

However, in this instance we are basically creating a tabletop RPG system (which at it’s core has NO theme, and nothing to do with Guild Wars, or Arena Net.). Also, any stories, classes, items etc. that fall under Guild Wars and Arena Net basically fall under “fan-fiction” which is permissible provided they are not exchanged for monetary gain. This makes the whole project fall into a “fan made theme”. And there are provisions for such things provided proper copyright and trademark information is properly displayed and published.

Also as Gaile pointed out, these things are covered, and our idea falls well within the scope of, the CToU.

We don’t want to make money off of it, we don’t want to step any Anets toes. We just want to create a tabletop RPG that has provisions to fit the world of Tyria and allow people who are fans of such things to be able to have their own adventures. To be able to experience the Charr invasion of Ascalon from a Charr perspective. To know what it was like as an Asura being driven to the surface. To be there when the gods first touched upon Tyria. And so on and so forth.

pdavis.8031:

First the CToU doesn’t say anything about creating a game based on Guild Wars. It does specifically state that you cannot create add-ons or expansions for any Arena Net games, and to use any of their art or images for toys, clothing etc. requires written permission.

Actually, it does:

May I use your art or images for items, such as clothing, toys, or other game-related goods?
Our art assets-be they concept art, in-game screenshots, verbal content, or renders-are all copyrighted materials. Their use is strictly prohibited unless approved in advance and in writing by ArenaNet. Specific questions concerning the appropriate use of our content should be directed to community@arena.net.

pdavis.8031:

However, in this instance we are basically creating a tabletop RPG system (which at it’s core has NO theme, and nothing to do with Guild Wars, or Arena Net.).

That falls under the category of toy. However, if it has no theme and has nothing to do with Guild Wars, why is this question even being asked? Can you create your own tabletop RPG system? Sure.

pdavis.8031:

Also, any stories, classes, items etc. that fall under Guild Wars and Arena Net basically fall under “fan-fiction” which is permissible provided they are not exchanged for monetary gain. This makes the whole project fall into a “fan made theme”. And there are provisions for such things provided proper copyright and trademark information is properly displayed and published.

Categorizing aspects of your proposed game as fan fiction is a stretch, but even if you can make that argument stick (and I’m not sure you can), you’re agreeing to the following stipulations, according to the CToU:

• You acknowledge and agree that no title nor any other form of ownership to the content has been or will be transferred to you from ArenaNet nor from anyone else
• You agree that ArenaNet has the right to require removal of our content at any time, for any reason

pdavis.8031:

We don’t want to make money off of it, we don’t want to step any Anets toes. We just want to create a tabletop RPG that has provisions to fit the world of Tyria and allow people who are fans of such things to be able to have their own adventures. To be able to experience the Charr invasion of Ascalon from a Charr perspective. To know what it was like as an Asura being driven to the surface. To be there when the gods first touched upon Tyria. And so on and so forth.

Please read the content I linked earlier. You may have the best intentions, but commercial ventures are often willing to pay for rights to the content. By granting you these rights for free, ArenaNet is potentially undermining themselves in future negotiations.

To avoid long quotes:

The first specifically deals with art (concept or otherwise), images, renders, screen shots, etc.

The stories invloved in such RPG are classified as “fan-fiction”. Although it uses the setting of Tyria, it’s not actually represented or played out in the game itself.
And yes I am aware of the stipulations. If anything the system itself will fall under the OGL (with all copyrights, trademarks etc. belonging to their respective owners) and the stories, classes and items, will still be property of Anet.

If Anet wants to develop a Guild Wars RPG based off our idea that would be awesome! The project would have achieved its maximum potential at that point. Or if they want to sell it to someone else, it will have achieved the same goal.

I also recieved an email from Gaile concerning this project. She assures me that as long as we are following the outlined terms (and we are) then we should be fine.

Bernie.8674:

pdavis.8031:

First the CToU doesn’t say anything about creating a game based on Guild Wars. It does specifically state that you cannot create add-ons or expansions for any Arena Net games, and to use any of their art or images for toys, clothing etc. requires written permission.

Actually, it does:

May I use your art or images for items, such as clothing, toys, or other game-related goods?
Our art assets-be they concept art, in-game screenshots, verbal content, or renders-are all copyrighted materials. Their use is strictly prohibited unless approved in advance and in writing by ArenaNet. Specific questions concerning the appropriate use of our content should be directed to community@arena.net.

pdavis.8031:

However, in this instance we are basically creating a tabletop RPG system (which at it’s core has NO theme, and nothing to do with Guild Wars, or Arena Net.).

That falls under the category of toy. However, if it has no theme and has nothing to do with Guild Wars, why is this question even being asked? Can you create your own tabletop RPG system? Sure.

pdavis.8031:

Also, any stories, classes, items etc. that fall under Guild Wars and Arena Net basically fall under “fan-fiction” which is permissible provided they are not exchanged for monetary gain. This makes the whole project fall into a “fan made theme”. And there are provisions for such things provided proper copyright and trademark information is properly displayed and published.

Categorizing aspects of your proposed game as fan fiction is a stretch, but even if you can make that argument stick (and I’m not sure you can), you’re agreeing to the following stipulations, according to the CToU:

• You acknowledge and agree that no title nor any other form of ownership to the content has been or will be transferred to you from ArenaNet nor from anyone else
• You agree that ArenaNet has the right to require removal of our content at any time, for any reason

pdavis.8031:

We don’t want to make money off of it, we don’t want to step any Anets toes. We just want to create a tabletop RPG that has provisions to fit the world of Tyria and allow people who are fans of such things to be able to have their own adventures. To be able to experience the Charr invasion of Ascalon from a Charr perspective. To know what it was like as an Asura being driven to the surface. To be there when the gods first touched upon Tyria. And so on and so forth.

Please read the content I linked earlier. You may have the best intentions, but commercial ventures are often willing to pay for rights to the content. By granting you these rights for free, ArenaNet is potentially undermining themselves in future negotiations.

Table top RPG’s are just text though. Except for the actual RP which could be spoken or typed.

It would fall under the fan-fiction clause.

Any stat area would fall under the same principle as fan made guides to GW2 itself.

Bernie.8674:

Actually, it does:

May I use your art or images for items, such as clothing, toys, or other game-related goods?
Our art assets-be they concept art, in-game screenshots, verbal content, or renders-are all copyrighted materials. Their use is strictly prohibited unless approved in advance and in writing by ArenaNet. Specific questions concerning the appropriate use of our content should be directed to community@arena.net.

That falls under the category of toy. However, if it has no theme and has nothing to do with Guild Wars, why is this question even being asked? Can you create your own tabletop RPG system? Sure.

Categorizing aspects of your proposed game as fan fiction is a stretch, but even if you can make that argument stick (and I’m not sure you can), you’re agreeing to the following stipulations, according to the CToU:

• You acknowledge and agree that no title nor any other form of ownership to the content has been or will be transferred to you from ArenaNet nor from anyone else
• You agree that ArenaNet has the right to require removal of our content at any time, for any reason

Please read the content I linked earlier. You may have the best intentions, but commercial ventures are often willing to pay for rights to the content. By granting you these rights for free, ArenaNet is potentially undermining themselves in future negotiations.

See Gaile’s reply before making assumptions, additionally, read the full CToU that you linked excerpts from. You’re using the wrong points from the ToU, especially considering something being a commercial endeavor means it’s being sold for more than a price of free. Additionally, I’ve had verification that this is NOT in any violation as long as sources are credited, and distribution is not-for-cost (aka free). Below is the relevant portions of a ticket I submitted regarding basically the exact same thing (from newest to oldest):

Email exchange”

[…]
As for such a discussion, I can simply be proud that I’m starting/refreshing/whateverapplicableverb a discussion.

[…]

Sent from Windows Mail

From: Guild Wars 2 Support
Sent: ?Friday?, ?January? ?16?, ?2015 ?5?:?45? ?PM
To: me

~~~~~~~~~

Gaile Gray
Forum Communications Team Lead (Guild Wars 2 Support)
Jan 16, 14:45
Hi me,
Free distribution is permitted as per the documents you reviewed. We’re delighted when players and fans build fun and useful products in relation to our game when it has been designed and will be distributed on a non-profit basis.
A for-profit project is not something we can allow at this time. I have asked our brand director for more information, but at the present time, we do not have a means to grant permission or issue a license in relation to a for-profit app. This is something we will be discussing internally to determine how we can best respond to such requests.
Regards,
Gaile Gray
Forum Communications Team Lead
Guild Wars 2 Support Team
http://support.guildwars2.com/

~~~~~~~

me
Jan 15, 15:47
I have perused those resources, particularly the Content ToU. However, the ToU is the source of my questions regarding approval, particularly this heading: “May I use your art or images for items, such as clothing, toys, or other game-related goods?” The information within that heading states that in terms of game-related goods, use of assets must be approved and in writing. Combined with earlier parameters of use outlined on that page, the distribution of such an app may be viewed as a commercial use context, even if distributed for no cost. Therefore, my questions about approval or obtaining approval. I should also mention that, while the ToU offers the ArenaNet Community email as a contact point for questions, it has minimal information about the point of contact for asset use approval that is not already tacitly implied or otherwise stated in the Terms of Use.

Sent from Windows Mail

@Sorudo: “private use” means not commercial use. Some of that information is also tailored specifically towards fan sites.

Aidan-Savage: That is very helpful. Thanks.

I was going to request this thread be closed, but I now ask that it be kept open as long as it doesn’t degenerate into a fight. Others looking for similar confirmation before undergoing any projects could benefit greatly from this discussion. But please let’s keep it civil. Thanks