Guild Wars 2

Yup ANet is completely blind or in denial about this issue, there should be limits to zerg-lag-farm trains and more incentives to play in parties spreading around the maps.

eleshazar.6902:

I’m glad for the nerf on the champ train. a) You can make far better gold doing other things. b) I personally think this hurts the game because players tell new players this is how you earn money in the game, and they quit after seeing how grindy and boring it is.

I earn 12g+ in under 2 hours in Arah every night. Trust me, the champ train is not a great way to earn money. It is just easy and boring.

Sounds like that is the thing that needs its reward nerfed.

kimeekat.2548:

Fractals can take 2-3 hours depending on the group and which fractals you end up with, and dungeons other than CoF or some CoE paths can take an hour or more (again, depending on the group). I just… I’m not sure what this does except encourage me to event farm harder during my limited weekday time? -shrug- we’ll see.

Well I don’t spend more than 15 minutes in dungeons for the most part. After 30 minutes I would probably leave and look for a good group, I would still be faster than 1h.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Becka Williams.4978:

Anet has mentioned previously that their metrics tell them that we don’t like Dynamic Events, and don’t do them. That’s why none have been added since September 2012.

If so, they are simply stupid. Have they never considered that running a 15min dungeonpath for 1 gold is more satisfying than doing 15 events for 2 silver each?

You mean 1-2 events .. since nobody can do 1 event per minute.

Levetty.1279:

eleshazar.6902:

I’m glad for the nerf on the champ train. a) You can make far better gold doing other things. b) I personally think this hurts the game because players tell new players this is how you earn money in the game, and they quit after seeing how grindy and boring it is.

I earn 12g+ in under 2 hours in Arah every night. Trust me, the champ train is not a great way to earn money. It is just easy and boring.

Sounds like that is the thing that needs its reward nerfed.

No, the reward is equal to the skill level. When you can kill lupi with a group of five in under a minute then you can earn 12g+ as well. Hitting 1 repeatedly with a group of 40 against some easy champ does not deserve a good reward.

Im Mudbone.1437:

IMO, they want you to BUY GEMS with RLM and convert to gold to make IGM, very sad we can’t make and obtain gold/items/mats just by playing the game, so sad.

Totally farcical statement. It is beyond easy to make money in this game. You should state your real opinion: You personally are not getting as much money as you want to get.

Beldin.5498:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Becka Williams.4978:

Anet has mentioned previously that their metrics tell them that we don’t like Dynamic Events, and don’t do them. That’s why none have been added since September 2012.

If so, they are simply stupid. Have they never considered that running a 15min dungeonpath for 1 gold is more satisfying than doing 15 events for 2 silver each?

You mean 1-2 events .. since nobody can do 1 event per minute.

Ofcourse, my example was too optimistic. Even more reason to make the loot more satisfying.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Becka Williams.4978:

Anet has mentioned previously that their metrics tell them that we don’t like Dynamic Events, and don’t do them. That’s why none have been added since September 2012.

If so, they are simply stupid. Have they never considered that running a 15min dungeonpath for 1 gold is more satisfying than doing 15 events for 2 silver each?

To be fair, you get a lot of drops from events. You do get some drops in dungeons, but each event gives you more gold then just the 2 silver you get at the end.

eleshazar.6902:

Levetty.1279:

eleshazar.6902:

I’m glad for the nerf on the champ train. a) You can make far better gold doing other things. b) I personally think this hurts the game because players tell new players this is how you earn money in the game, and they quit after seeing how grindy and boring it is.

I earn 12g+ in under 2 hours in Arah every night. Trust me, the champ train is not a great way to earn money. It is just easy and boring.

Sounds like that is the thing that needs its reward nerfed.

No, the reward is equal to the skill level. When you can kill lupi with a group of five in under a minute then you can earn 12g+ as well. Hitting 1 repeatedly with a group of 40 against some easy champ does not deserve a good reward.

It’s still grindy. GW2 can turn out very expensive if you aim for special gear. There is simply no aspect of the game which is not grindy. Champtrain is grind pure, Dungeonpaths are also. You are not just hitting 1 all the time but it’s not more encouraging.

Becka Williams.4978:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Becka Williams.4978:

Anet has mentioned previously that their metrics tell them that we don’t like Dynamic Events, and don’t do them. That’s why none have been added since September 2012.

If so, they are simply stupid. Have they never considered that running a 15min dungeonpath for 1 gold is more satisfying than doing 15 events for 2 silver each?

To be fair, you get a lot of drops from events. You do get some drops in dungeons, but each event gives you more gold then just the 2 silver you get at the end.

That shows once more how dull the current event rewards are. If you get more money from killing one mob than from completing an event, there has to be something odd.

“With the changes we’re making that remove some of the systems that take gold out of the economy, we need to make sure the economy remains balanced in terms of gold input as well. We’ll be reducing the amount of raw gold that comes out of champion loot bags and events in an effort to keep the economy balanced and spread out player activity a bit.”

Disconnect city. Currently, most people seem to do dungeons, LW events, meta events and champion farm. Aside from maybe moving a few people away from champ farming, how is this going to “spread out player activity a bit.” I can guarantee that people who were not inclined to wander around zones doing Dynamic Events — the purported core of the game — will not suddenly start doing so once the event rewards are reduced. If you’re one of the players who actually do wander around and do DE’s now, this move is a slap in the face — because that was already the least rewarding play-style (gold-wise) in the game. I can see the need for gold-sinks, but reducing one of the already laughable incentives to do DE’s is a signal that ANet has all but abandoned its original intent for the game.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Beldin.5498:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Becka Williams.4978:

Anet has mentioned previously that their metrics tell them that we don’t like Dynamic Events, and don’t do them. That’s why none have been added since September 2012.

If so, they are simply stupid. Have they never considered that running a 15min dungeonpath for 1 gold is more satisfying than doing 15 events for 2 silver each?

You mean 1-2 events .. since nobody can do 1 event per minute.

Ofcourse, my example was too optimistic. Even more reason to make the loot more satisfying.

End even if its possible .. i can for example manage to do 30 events in one hour .. that is still just something like kitten total reward.

Events needs to be more rewarding, since thats the reason nobody does them anymore. But i think ANet has simply no idee how to make them more rewarding without that there is a lot of abuse, or crying if your reward would be proportional to your damage suddenly.

Becka Williams.4978:

Anet has mentioned previously that their metrics tell them that we don’t like Dynamic Events, and don’t do them. That’s why none have been added since September 2012.

And the solution to that is to nerf event rewards even more?

People aren’t doing events because doing events isn’t rewarding enough. Running champ train and farming dungeons is more rewarding in terms of gold than events, so that’s what people do. The logical solution would be to increase event rewards.

Champ train is ridiculously boring. Doing the same rotation over and over and over again. I can’t understand the mentality of some players Sure you can chat with your fellow farmers while doing it, but is it something you really want to do for hours and hours? Grinding. That’s what you are doing lol

I would like to see increasing rewards for doing multiple events in a chain. So if I do the first event it pays x, the second would pay 2x, the third 3x (or maybe geometric so 4x). If someone comes in on the second event in the chain they would get x with the 3rd event (2nd of them) paying 2×. Just something to make it worthwhile to get out in the world an do the long chains.

They have metrics for where GOLD comes from in this game. This is literally to keep the economy in the same position it is at now.

The problem is, they can’t really make events that rewarding, otherwise you’d get either massive inflation, or a flooding of the market in terms of items. This game actually needs more gold sinks, not fewer.

Becka Williams.4978:

The problem is, they can’t really make events that rewarding, otherwise you’d get either massive inflation, or a flooding of the market in terms of items. This game actually needs more gold sinks, not fewer.

Why can’t they? If you want maximum gold, run dungeons. There is no alternative for that. They wont decrease the gold income, they just force all to run dungeons.

Awbee.8405:

Becka Williams.4978:

Anet has mentioned previously that their metrics tell them that we don’t like Dynamic Events, and don’t do them. That’s why none have been added since September 2012.

And the solution to that is to nerf event rewards even more?

People aren’t doing events because doing events isn’t rewarding enough. Running champ train and farming dungeons is more rewarding in terms of gold than events, so that’s what people do. The logical solution would be to increase event rewards.

Yeah .. according to that logic they should never have invented the champ-bags at all .. since when nobody killed champs in that logic drops from champs should have been nerfed even more .. or they should just have removed all champs.

Btw.: if they don’t want more money to get into the game .. simply change the rewards from events to get some crafting mats, and maybe give random some mats that are at the moment at a good price in the TP. Do event → get 5 Silk or Linnen for example. That will not flood new gold into the game but the player feels rewarded.

displacedTitan.6897:

They have metrics for where GOLD comes from in this game. This is literally to keep the economy in the same position it is at now.

If they have and if this metric has told them that the most gold is aquired through events, they are simply wrong.

To spread out activity you reduce rewards after the first time you do an event, not overall.

If you reduce rewards everywhere, people will just stick to the highest income spot.

The mistake was adding a guaranteed reward with no cap within a time frame. When they revamped dungeon rewards, they gave them caps. When they revamped champion rewards, they should have given them caps too.

Champions need flags, like nodes. So they give better rewards the first time, then you go look for another champion.

They should give each eventless champion an event, and move the bags to the success of the event, and put flags linked to those events. Do the same champion event again the same day, no more bags for you. Wan more bags? Get in a worldwide champion train squad and look for other champions in other maps or something.

This would also help greatly WvW players, as those who stay behind slowing down the enemies at the door would not be less rewarded than those who hastly rush to the champion.

ANet is sending us only one signal in here:

If you are doing Dynamic Events, don’t do them anymore. We are not paying you for doing them.

So ANet, you are not paying us with gold for doing events. What do you want us doing in this game then? Huh?

Its a good thing if it prevents champ trains (grinding) being the most efficient means of making money/levelling. However, if they make champions so unrewarding to kill at all – there is very little incentive to take one on when randomly in the open-world. They already take forever to kill.

Its also good if it reduces the money-making potential of botting and the terrible economic impacts it can have!

Merging(i.e griefing) aside, skill is rewarded. Arah selling is quite a nice way of virtual income. They should maybe reintroduce the gauntlet. Not the deadeye farming though.

Beldin.5498:

Yeah .. according to that logic they should never have invented the champ-bags at all .. since when nobody killed champs in that logic drops from champs should have been nerfed even more .. or they should just have removed all champs.

No, the champion loot bags are and were a great addition, because it sucked badly when you spent 15 minutes killing a champion with two friends and then getting a blue for it.

But champion farming can’t be the endgame. That’s just terrible.

Avster.1935:

Champ train is ridiculously boring. Doing the same rotation over and over and over again. I can’t understand the mentality of some players Sure you can chat with your fellow farmers while doing it, but is it something you really want to do for hours and hours? Grinding. That’s what you are doing lol

I’m pretty sure nobody enjoys it. People feel forced to do it because everything desirable in the game costs gold, and RNG is rampant. As long as this is the case, gold farming will always be a thing. It doen’t matter how annoying or boring. This is a problem, and clashes badly with the game’s original manifesto.

Raise your hand if you farm events and bosses for silver drops.
I see no hands.

So why does this matter?

Oh, I know. There was nothing better to complain about today. Seriously, I hope arenanet staffers only bothered read the first two whining posts on threads like this before they stop wasting their time. I don’t disagree with critical commentary, but there is nothing useful about the complaints in this thread.

Advice: Buy a towel. Cry into it in silence. Leave the rest of us alone.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Becka Williams.4978:

The problem is, they can’t really make events that rewarding, otherwise you’d get either massive inflation, or a flooding of the market in terms of items. This game actually needs more gold sinks, not fewer.

Why can’t they? If you want maximum gold, run dungeons. There is no alternative for that. They wont decrease the gold income, they just force all to run dungeons.

It is pretty much that right now for people anyways. Do your daily dungeon runs and log out.

Jack Angelfoot.2697:

Raise your hand if you farm events and bosses for silver drops.
I see no hands.

So why does this matter?

Oh, I know. There was nothing better to complain about today. Seriously, I hope arenanet staffers only bothered read the first two whining posts on threads like this before they stop wasting their time. I don’t disagree with critical commentary, but there is nothing useful about the complaints in this thread.

Advice: Buy a towel. Cry into it in silence. Leave the rest of us alone.

What?

If no one was farming it, then why nerf it? That makes no sense.

Avster.1935:

Champ train is ridiculously boring. Doing the same rotation over and over and over again. I can’t understand the mentality of some players Sure you can chat with your fellow farmers while doing it, but is it something you really want to do for hours and hours? Grinding. That’s what you are doing lol

It’s something to do when I randomly log on at 1am on a weekend, and not many people are on, and no big world events are going down.

Reducing rewards in this game and not expanding them is a bad move.

GW2 has always been broken in the risk – time investment vs reward setting.

Rewards being scaled back will do nothing but make people less interested.

Awbee.8405:

If no one was farming it, then why nerf it? That makes no sense.

I did not say that. I said nobody is farming it for the silver drops.

They nerved the ancillary silver/copper drops. That’s all. I farm champs/events all the time. This won’t change that. I will just probably end up with about 10 silver less per night. You make the real cash off of selling the loot.

It will slightly decrease the economy’s gold influx. But not by much. In fact, probably not by enough. Prices will probably increase.

Jack Angelfoot.2697:

Raise your hand if you farm events and bosses for silver drops.
I see no hands.

So why does this matter?

Oh, I know. There was nothing better to complain about today. Seriously, I hope arenanet staffers only bothered read the first two whining posts on threads like this before they stop wasting their time. I don’t disagree with critical commentary, but there is nothing useful about the complaints in this thread.

Advice: Buy a towel. Cry into it in silence. Leave the rest of us alone.

Stupid me, thought I could help the devs to add more diversity into the game.
Seriously your comment couldn’t be more out of place. Did you even read my initial post? I’m claiming that they should increase the event rewards so it actually worth farming them. Noone does farm events right now. I want that to be changed.

I’ve always thought that receiving 2-3 silver for completing an event or opening a champ bag was negligible since I’m going to spend much more than that in WP and repair costs. Are we really fretting over receiving 2 silver instead of 3 silver? How does such a minute difference make such a huge difference in your wallet? It’s not the raw silver that you receive from event and champ bags that makes you money, that just barely pays your WP fees. It’s the selling of the loot itself that makes you money and they aren’t nerfing the loot. The amount of money you make in champ trains will not change whatsoever.

Ahhhh so thats why they took away the minimal armor costs, so they could justify reducing rewards.
uhhhh kind of bad move here. Its not like content felt that rewarding to most people. Especially events, events feel pretty worthless right now, i cant imagine making them feel less profitable is a good look.

I think if they want to decrease gold earning, they should increase reward. I can only imagine they are nerfing returns from zommoros as well. and he wasnt even giving good returns…

kitten homey

I worry that they’re going to make the drops in the boxes/remove the daily rare box, because there seems to be a LOT they’re hiding in these incredibly vague blog posts. I guess they don’t want to give out spoilers.

Lunchbox.6970:

I’ve always thought that receiving 2-3 silver for completing an event or opening a champ bag was negligible since I’m going to spend much more than that in WP and repair costs. Are we really fretting over receiving 2 silver instead of 3 silver? How does such a minute difference make such a huge difference in your wallet? It’s not the raw silver that you receive from event and champ bags that makes you money, that just barely pays your WP fees. It’s the selling of the loot itself that makes you money and they aren’t nerfing the loot. The amount of money you make in champ trains will not change whatsoever.

Events are, or should be, pretty much the core of GW2’s gameplay. Making them even more unrewarding relative to other “farming” methods doesn’t seem to make much sense.

When a friend asks me to help with an event — I will have to pay 3s WP cost to get there, and then get 2s as a reward. And then pay 3s to get back. That’s pretty asinine.

Lunchbox.6970:

I’ve always thought that receiving 2-3 silver for completing an event or opening a champ bag was negligible since I’m going to spend much more than that in WP and repair costs. Are we really fretting over receiving 2 silver instead of 3 silver? How does such a minute difference make such a huge difference in your wallet? It’s not the raw silver that you receive from event and champ bags that makes you money, that just barely pays your WP fees. It’s the selling of the loot itself that makes you money and they aren’t nerfing the loot. The amount of money you make in champ trains will not change whatsoever.

for champ train its a sizable and consistent amount.
for events it wasnt big enough to begin with, and people have virtually no reason to do events even at the current cost.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Did you even read my initial post? I’m claiming that they should increase the event rewards so it actually worth farming them.

My pardon, LostProphet. I did read your post which was why I wasted my time reading all the others. That comment was not targeted at you. (Notice I wanted them to read your post that kicked this off.)

You brought up a topic that should be discussed. Not whined about. And for the most part people who commented on it said “I hate the world!” Rather than discussing your comment.

Thus my anger.

If they want to complain, they should find someone who cares. You – and I – actually want Arena Net to succeed with GW2. And I prefer constructive – even if critical – conversations.

Lunchbox.6970:

I’ve always thought that receiving 2-3 silver for completing an event or opening a champ bag was negligible since I’m going to spend much more than that in WP and repair costs. Are we really fretting over receiving 2 silver instead of 3 silver? How does such a minute difference make such a huge difference in your wallet? It’s not the raw silver that you receive from event and champ bags that makes you money, that just barely pays your WP fees. It’s the selling of the loot itself that makes you money and they aren’t nerfing the loot. The amount of money you make in champ trains will not change whatsoever.

You didn’t understand the purpose of this thread. They shouldn’t retract the reward, they should increase it drastically. You’ve described the problem perfectly. The loot from killing monsters is better as the loot from completing events. That’s pure nonsense.

Xhax.5306:

You mean they’re trying to make me play other content in the game?

No, they are trying to make you play less some content in the game.

looks like this is the gold wars 2 pay cut announcement.
Essentially, every thing that makes money, or creates desireable items is going to do less so.
For china!

sounds really bad

Jack Angelfoot.2697:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Did you even read my initial post? I’m claiming that they should increase the event rewards so it actually worth farming them.

My pardon, LostProphet. I did read your post which was why I wasted my time reading all the others. That comment was not targeted at you. (Notice I wanted them to read your post that kicked this off.)

You brought up a topic that should be discussed. Not whined about. And for the most part people who commented on it said “I hate the world!” Rather than discussing your comment.

Thus my anger.

If they want to complain, they should find someone who cares. You – and I – actually want Arena Net to succeed with GW2. And I prefer constructive – even if critical – conversations.

Thanks for the clarification.

OGMS, you guys, I just spent 23 minutes fighting Jormag, and I got a whole 1.89 silver. That’s just TOOO much gold. I’m glad it’s getting nerfed. Just think what you can buy with 1.89 silver? It’s a game breakingly large amount of gold.

To chime in on LostProphet’s legitimate point,
I agree in principle, but disagree on point. Specifically, I disagree on adding silver to events, because to actually make the event feel rewarding the increase would have to be dramatic enough to be economy-breaking.

I would, instead, suggest a large subset of rares/skins/etc that only drop randomly from particular events. This would make events – especially major ones – more rewarding. The mini-chests were a good idea. That idea should be expanded. IMO

But if they were to expand even loot drops there would have to be a gold sink somewhere to balance it out. :/

HHR LostProphet.4801:

CureForLiving.5360:

Well I don’t think this will impact the average player too much. Maybe the champ train will take a knock, but essentially with this change the only running cost of pve play is waypoints.

It wont impact anyone because noone is farming events becuase it’s not worth the time. The have to increase the loot to stop dungeongrinding.

And then we have event farming. Everything players is thinking about is the kitten time vs reward. I am so tired of hearing this! I do not agree with this blog post, but its not becacuse of the nerf to champ trains.

The nerf to champion trains is a good one and is definitely needed…

However, there’s nothing new to take it’s place. Yes, dungeons are very profitable, but there hasn’t been a new dungeon in a long, long time.

This is a change for the better, but without new dungeon content, I still see the potential for players getting burnout.

eleshazar.6902:

I earn 12g+ in under 2 hours in Arah every night. Trust me, the champ train is not a great way to earn money. It is just easy and boring.

That’s great for people already into dungeons. But for someone like me for example… I’ve never done a dungeon, aside from the ones related to Living Story. And based on all the hostility I always seem to see related to dungeon “newbs” and people not running full ‘zerkers / metabuild trait setups (which I don’t on any character, I’ve got 2 in full rampagers, 1 in knights / celestial mix, one in full cleric, and one in a cleric / zerker mix) I doubt I’d be welcome in any profitable dungeon speedruns any time soon.

The nice thing about the champ train is that there’s no entry barrier. You don’t need to study videos or have a perfect build or be an amazing player. Show up, follow the train, get a few hits in on the champs and you’re golden. No worries about messing the train up and getting screamed at (at most you can mess yourself up and miss a few loots). No worry of getting kicked and losing out on getting anything.

Don’t get me wrong, its fine if skill is rewarded more. Dungeon runs can be the most profitable thing and that’s fine. But I don’t see what’s so terrible about an “easy” (yet still time-consuming) farm method that it needs to be continually nerfed into the ground.

And yah, “into the ground” might be a bit of an exaggeration, we don’t know how much of a nerf this is going to be. But it already got nerfed to a somewhat signifigant degree a couple months back, and from what I hear dungeons are already a much better income source as it is, so I’m not really convinced another nerf is needed.

nerfing events and nerfing champ train at the same time wont promote spreading out. I dont think they need to give gold for everything, but events already needed to be more rewarding.
in fact event rewards in general need a pretty big overhual, if they want to spread people out, and not in the direct nerfing or even buffing way

Jack Angelfoot.2697:

To chime in on LostProphet’s legitimate point,
I agree in principle, but disagree on point. Specifically, I disagree on adding silver to events, because to actually make the event feel rewarding the increase would have to be dramatic enough to be economy-breaking.

I would, instead, suggest a large subset of rares/skins/etc that only drop randomly from particular events. This would make events – especially major ones – more rewarding. The mini-chests were a good idea. That idea should be expanded. IMO

But if they were to expand even loot drops there would have to be a gold sink somewhere to balance it out. :/

I honestly see no point why I oughtn’t get 1 gold for an event lasting 15 minutes if I’m able to get 1 gold within 15 minutes through dungeonrunning. Ofcourse, this has to be balanced out, but there is no argument why it oughtn’t be that way.

Yeah, I cannot get behind this. If they have to nerf bag cash to account for the repair costs thing, then just don’t remove repair costs. I’m fine with repair costs, I don’t die all that much anyways. Why are they don’t this? They seem to be doubling down on the idea that the only authorized way to make any money in this game is by playing trading post tycoon.

If they nerf champ bags then they really need to come up with better ways to earn coin via open world PvE content.