Guild Wars 2

Problem;

Only certain builds/classes can have a chance at this, usually high ranged DPS with its own AI (clones, pets) that have dodges/blinks. Doesnt mean people who dont have this cant do it, but certainly classes that do have these can do it almost effortesly compared to the rest of the other classes.

Im looking at mesmers and thieves which can pretty much cast clones on the boss and get things done while all they have to worry about is dodge the skills shots, or thieves who’s natural damage and plenty of dodges/teleports allow them to be out of harms most of the time.

This is a problem that goes to the core of GW2 combat, here you have time after time denied to balance out classes for 1v1 scenarios, balancing it on “teamfights” and 5v5s, hence which certain classes cant only do well in certain scenarios. Im looking at the lack of ranged DPS options for elementalists and guardians. No, scepter is bad for Liadri, both for guard and ele.

There is a fine line between skills, difficulty and getting lucky. I think we can all agree that certain elements of the game such as Irongut (norn drinking contest) are based almost purely in luck, and even defeating them gives you little to no joy compared to the amount of grief it created.

We need to give non-zerker classes means to be able to deal with Liadri. We certainly have the tools, but here is the issue, you have to burn through a pretty thick bunch of HP. This is false difficulty, this is lazy desing, this needs to be adressed, specially since you dont want to balance classes around 1v1 and “force” them to play an arena 1v1.

Solutions; Reduce hp of Liadri by A LOT, not 10% not 20%, im talking about giving those who even with zerker cant land most attacks (staff ele for example) or those who dont have zerker (due to having to get some defensive stats to be able to withstand the constant damage, eles have a poor 10k hp pool, incredibly stupid and unbalaced considering you cant block anything from Liadri)

OR

Increase the time by A LOT, not 5 seconds, nor 10, nor 20, Im talking about a whole 2 minutes, right now in between avoiding all and having to go around the map every now and then to avoid the kamikazes, you lose precious time. Once again, this is not difficulty, it pushes only certain classes and builds. Let us fight on our terms. No, I dont mean letting condition burn guardian be vaible, but I do want to be able to get some points into water as ele to heal a bit and still not run out of time due to lack of damage and the 999999999 hp bar of most mobs

EDIT:

After sleeping over it, I have come to the realization that the main problem isnt the 1hit KO and mechanics, but rather this:

Camera Angle:

Most of the time I can only see the back of my head. This can get fixed by “taking away” the walls for the people inside.

Time Limit:

Even playing full zerker or PVT sometimes if you dont have pets that deal constant damage or stealth that lets you take a breathing room or constant dodges (thieves) then it becomes insanely hard, at least compared to them. Solution; increase time 2x fold. Sure it would make it even easier for them, but it would give a fair chance to all those who arent mesmers/thieves.

Needs its own instance

When you get people below you the sudden FPS drop is insane.

Cant see Circles!!!!!!!

Self explanatory, the floor makes it really hard.

There’s no doubt that the gauntlet requires a lot of skill bar tweaking and a lot of min maxing. When they initially designed Liadri they probably expected this to be the case. After all, why would they put a retrainer in the crown pavilion?

If you reduce the hp of Liadri, you make the other achievement harder, because people will accidentally kill her.

I can tell you for a fact that this fight is easier not being berserker. You will realize it when you try for the bonus achievement.

“No, scepter is bad for Liadri, both for guard and ele.”

A close friend of mine who is ele was using scepter and dagger and got the Light Up the Darkness achievement last night. She did better than anyone else I know. She was the first person I seen to get the Liadri mini.

So making a complex encounter is lazy design?

Fortus.6175:

Let me make a TL;DR

One-hit-KO, high hp, luck-based, very limited by time, constant uncounterable damage, unblockable skills = put them together and you get:

Lazy Design

The damage is easily avoided, you don’t even have to dodge.
Skills are blockable and can be dodged.
It’s not luck based since ad-spawnpoints, patterns for the one-hit ko and spawns for voidballs are in the same place every time.
QQ less

Imho, the only real problems are in the terrible camera (especially with norns and charrs) and in issues on actually seeing the AoEs (due of the lack of contrast – red rings on a red grid…).

the mini is exotic

it should be hard

you still have like 2 weeks to finish. personally, im going to keep trying whether it takes me 5 more tries or 50.

if anet listened to people who cry “nerf nerf!” we would have no challenging content ever.

I agree with Fortus. I’m in the same situation and i agree. Don’t let down on other comments many are of the “super easy” guys who repeat 50 times or can’t make it and just come to hate around, because it’s UNBEATABLE in some classes

OP suffers from Dunning–Kruger effect.

As a guardian, I did it with scepter and highly recommend only scepter. stop trying to melee her.

I only started the gauntlet last night and made it up to Salazan. I’ll be tackling the rest tonight. I gotta say I am not looking forward to her. I envision much cursing in my future.

The only 2 problems with Liandri are the camera randomly being a piece of kitten and giving you stupid angles that don’t let you see properly, and the rather restricting time limit.

Even then Liandri is tough but fair. This is a L2P issue through and through.

One Shot skills plus time limit is lazy design… please en light me how a Cleric-build character can L2P to kill her? Oh yeah… Clerics are bad because Cleric =/= Zerk.

So tell me, did they fail here? or while doing specs? Because evidently, they failed one place or the other if both things created by the same team have a conflict with each other.

Besides, I can easily say that if she didn’t kill me in the time limit I win, not her. Why should it be backwards?

If you want to do it in cleric gear you just have to throw a few extra orbs at her.

Fortus.6175:

This is a problem that goes to the core of GW2 combat, here you have time after time denied to balance out classes for 1v1 scenarios, balancing it on “teamfights” and 5v5s, hence which certain classes cant only do well in certain scenarios. Im looking at the lack of ranged DPS options for elementalists and guardians. No, scepter is bad for Liadri, both for guard and ele.

I did Liadra with my guardian using scepter/shield. Her health is really not that high compared to some of the other gauntlet bosses. If you are running out of time, I suggest you spend more time figuring out what is taking you too long in phase 1. Because after that it’s just run in a circle and DPS.

Mesket.5728:

One Shot skills plus time limit is lazy design… please en light me how a Cleric-build character can L2P to kill her? Oh yeah… Clerics are bad because Cleric =/= Zerk.

So tell me, did they fail here? or while doing specs? Because evidently, they failed one place or the other if both things created by the same team have a conflict with each other.

Besides, I can easily say that if she didn’t kill me in the time limit I win, not her. Why should it be backwards?

They straight up said not all combinations will work. Do you have to be zerk? No, but it may be time to find a DPS set as well.

Sorin.4310:

I did Liadra with my guardian using scepter/shield. Her health is really not that high compared to some of the other gauntlet bosses. If you are running out of time, I suggest you spend more time figuring out what is taking you too long in phase 1. Because after that it’s just run in a circle and DPS.

this…

As soon as you realize the pattern in phase 2 the only real problem becomes the stupid chaos rift, that one should be removed.

A simple guide for phase 2;
When you see the shadow drop, run there then dps. Next shadow drops run again, repeat until she dies.

Should be noted that the farther out you are while running the longer you have to run, I suggest staying halfway to the center.

I think the worst decisions they made with the gauntlet are:

A) Small arena. It needed to be 5x this area. Not enough room to move around.

B) The walls compress the camera into the back of your character and you can’t see. Kinda related to A. Should have been an “open” arena.

C) The queue. I would have put a lot more time into the gauntlet if I didn’t have to wait in queues to get in.

D) Kinda related to C is the time limit. These should have been individually instanced and we should have had a non-time-limited fight to the death. Whoever dies first wins, and time shouldn’t be a factor.

E) The stupid tickets. I don’t even know what to say about that. Really lame.

F) The fact that there are bugs that cause you to WASTE tickets.

Edit: That said…I love the idea of the gauntlet. I just don’t find it fun because of the previously stated stuff.

Hickeroar.9734:

I think the worst decisions they made with the gauntlet are:

A) Small arena. It needed to be 5x this area. Not enough room to move around.

B) The walls compress the camera into the back of your character and you can’t see. Kinda related to A. Should have been an “open” arena.

C) The queue. I would have put a lot more time into the gauntlet if I didn’t have to wait in queues to get in.

D) Kinda related to C is the time limit. These should have been individually instanced and we should have had a non-time-limited fight to the death. Whoever dies first wins, and time shouldn’t be a factor.

E) The stupid tickets. I don’t even know what to say about that. Really lame.

F) The fact that there are bugs that cause you to WASTE tickets.

---

Edit: That said…I love the idea of the gauntlet. I just don’t find it fun because of the previously stated stuff.

A) Agreed though I don’t find it that bad

B) Totally agreed. As a Norn this is terrible. Camera dazes me.

C) Can’t agree or disagree… I didn’t have much queue and I enjoyed viewing other players fight.

D) Time limit is stupid and force events to be only completed by certain builds… like I said before its unfair for certain classes/specs

E) Disagree. Tickets are a fine mechanic to force people not to stay there all day long. Play a few matches and go back to the real action out there… its a shame that real action is now translated to one spot in the whole world… bottom Pavilion farming champs and veterans.

F) Agreed. Wasting a ticket in vain is kinda lame.

Mesket.5728:

Hickeroar.9734:

I think the worst decisions they made with the gauntlet are:

A) Small arena. It needed to be 5x this area. Not enough room to move around.

B) The walls compress the camera into the back of your character and you can’t see. Kinda related to A. Should have been an “open” arena.

C) The queue. I would have put a lot more time into the gauntlet if I didn’t have to wait in queues to get in.

D) Kinda related to C is the time limit. These should have been individually instanced and we should have had a non-time-limited fight to the death. Whoever dies first wins, and time shouldn’t be a factor.

E) The stupid tickets. I don’t even know what to say about that. Really lame.

F) The fact that there are bugs that cause you to WASTE tickets.

---

Edit: That said…I love the idea of the gauntlet. I just don’t find it fun because of the previously stated stuff.

A) Agreed though I don’t find it that bad

B) Totally agreed. As a Norn this is terrible. Camera dazes me.

C) Can’t agree or disagree… I didn’t have much queue and I enjoyed viewing other players fight.

D) Time limit is stupid and force events to be only completed by certain builds… like I said before its unfair for certain classes/specs

E) Disagree. Tickets are a fine mechanic to force people not to stay there all day long. Play a few matches and go back to the real action out there… its a shame that real action is now translated to one spot in the whole world… bottom Pavilion farming champs and veterans.

F) Agreed. Wasting a ticket in vain is kinda lame.

E) If I wanna spend all day in there trying to beat a boss….what’s the problem with that?

As a necromancer who initially complained, I now think the encounter is fine. Most people just aren’t willing to admit they’re not good at the game, so they immediately blame “luck” and “bad design.”

Still, it’s pretty obvious the encounter and achievement weren’t tested with a necromancer. It’s the one class that has a disproportionate disadvantage.

Also, red circles need to be made much more visible across the board.

I have reflected upon my thread and I agree with many of you, while I wouldnt say the difficulty is whats causing the frustration (Im rather pleased with it), what it IS causing problem is the camera angle and how most of the time i see nothing but the back of my head.

The FPS drop and the bad contrast with the floor and circles

Waited 2 min to enter > got in > got downed in 3 seconds > got out > adios Gauntlet.

Liadri was a joke. Just a stupid gimmick with one hit kills spammed all over the place. It took me maybe 5m of game time to find an empty arena and kill her. I am, however, sick to death of wasting tickets on bugs.

I’ve completed the 5 Gambit achievement twice and not once have I received it. Instead of awarding me the achievement, it puts me outside of the arena dead. At one point the quaggan disappeared entirely partway through the fight and I was killed instantly for no discernible reason.

I’m done. Until the developers of this game reward me with the achievement I earned and fix the rest of these absurd bugs, I’m not wasting my time on this stupid gauntlet. I don’t even know how this managed to get released.

Sil.4560:

L
I’ve completed the 5 Gambit achievement twice and not once have I received it. […] At one point the quaggan disappeared

Eh… 5 gambit achievement is for tier 3 fights only, as are all other gambit achievements… Quaggan is tier 1..?

It’s pretty hard playing guard tbh, at least the 8 crystal achi, I image it’d be much easier on say mesmer because the adds don’t … block all your damage? also there is a lot of bad rng in the fight like getting blinded and having no idea when to dodge and/or where to go and THE KITTENING CIRCLE SPAWNING IN THE CORNER. I’ll give this fight a 6/10, just because it’s hard. if it were easy then it would be like 2/10 coz the design is just utter crap. I don’t wanna imagine doing this on a necro for example..

edit:also the most bugged content in gaming history probably(tho someone will one-up me on that)

edit2:putting it in a dome which kittens your camera up and having a huge zerg beneath you causing fps drops, lag and effect-reduction don’t help either.

Cant see Circles!!!!!!!

Bugs.

Effect culling.

I’ve defeated her with a longbow warrior. The only thing I disliked about her design was the random screen blinding, but that’s mostly because I have a terrible sensorial response to abrupt visual effects.

I am very disappointed. For almost a year, despite every minor and major annoyances I have kept beleiving that this game is fun. As they say, it’s the little things, that…
Yes, the little things. Like: The collapsing stars which pull you cannot be shot down with a shortbow nor pistol, because obstructed…. how? I am standing right in front of it and obstructed.
Then: If someone did subject 7 before me (which happened 14 times today) the small oozes are left there and keep damagin you. Is it not something that should be taken care of immediately? Very annoying.
As mentioned before: circles spawning at the corners? I know that this game is flooded with “randomness” but seriously?
Then again: if the visions do not pass the exact middle of the light thingies, nothing happens. The effect is a lot bigger than it actually is.
If the idea is that these achievements should require skill instead of restless grinding, than make it so. Not luck. Not for special specs/classes only. Skill.

zallesz.1650:

I am very disappointed. For almost a year, despite every minor and major annoyances I have kept beleiving that this game is fun. As they say, it’s the little things, that…
Yes, the little things. Like: The collapsing stars which pull you cannot be shot down with a shortbow nor pistol, because obstructed…. how? I am standing right in front of it and obstructed.
Then: If someone did subject 7 before me (which happened 14 times today) the small oozes are left there and keep damagin you. Is it not something that should be taken care of immediately? Very annoying.
As mentioned before: circles spawning at the corners? I know that this game is flooded with “randomness” but seriously?
Then again: if the visions do not pass the exact middle of the light thingies, nothing happens. The effect is a lot bigger than it actually is.
If the idea is that these achievements should require skill instead of restless grinding, than make it so. Not luck. Not for special specs/classes only. Skill.

There is no luck involved; patterns for the aoe are the same every time.
the screen blind can be turned off by disabling post processing.
Range her, melee the pulling orbs; that’s why you have weapon swap, use it!

Crovax.7854:

that’s why you have weapon swap, use it!

What do, Im an ele, I cant “swap” weapons. No, seriously, Im an ele, I have to either pick or choose, cant have both; either I get pulled to death or I melee the darn things.

See how the entire thing is flawed, giving only certain classes/specs the upper hand, in this case eles are almost completely alienated. You have to get lucky that it doesnt pull you to a invisible red circle of doom, thats where the luck comes from, among others like; having the white field appear on a convenient place, that 2 shadows step o it at the same time, the random blinds (screws burst people or people who can only land a few attacks every now and then)

Sure the AoE is always the same, but everything else isnt, which is why this actually DOES need luck…

Charak.9761:

OP suffers from Dunning–Kruger effect.

As a guardian, I did it with scepter and highly recommend only scepter. stop trying to melee her.

Melee should be just as effective as Ranged if not something is broken in the game mechanics, one class should not out do another.

Then basically we are back to Generic mmo like all the rest.

Has an engi passed this i’d love to know how, and with 300+ ping time will i beat her?

ProxyDamage.9826:

Eh… 5 gambit achievement is for tier 3 fights only, as are all other gambit achievements… Quaggan is tier 1..?

The quaggan appears as an additional enemy if you have that gambit set. I was doing the ooze.

Anyway, third time seems to be the charm, I received my achievement this time.

Charak.9761:

OP suffers from Dunning–Kruger effect.

As a guardian, I did it with scepter and highly recommend only scepter. stop trying to melee her.

Oh look, you are using sophisticated words to make your argument look more convincing. Granted, they arent sophisticated and any psychology major should know about this, but for the rest of the population this is just fancy babble.

As for the issue at hand; congratulations. What about you do it 3 more times in a row with me in front of you? Because I can guarantee you that you, like many others who beat Irongut or liadri with “less conventional methods” will say that was “skills” and not luck.

I have seen plenty of people doing it, only guardian I saw succeeding was one using GS/Staff, and even he admitted that he got lucky.

Admit it, certain classes cant do it very well, I have been running around the dome and most people “bragging” around with their mini are mesmers (a solid 8/10 times).

Im not meleeing the thing, but I have little options as to what to do when as an Ele I cant switch weapons to kill the orb and cant heal myself without COMPLETELY crippling my damage.

I can do one or the other; do damage or heal.

If I do damage, I die to constant autoattacks and the leaps, if I heal I run out of time. If I do a middle ground i still run out of time since it. is. not. enough.

After beating Liadri with a necro – no vigor, no consumables, no block, no teleport, no reflect, no invulnerability, no stability, no aegis, no invisibility, and horrible heals – I believe any professions should be able to win this fight with decent ranged DPS… every professions.

If you’re able to keep aware of the AoE pattern and you’re positioning, there’s nothing more you need.

Please, PLEASE change the camera angle!

Camera is awfull and classes with no real ranged skills can’t really do much.

As a guardian, I go to second phase easily. But my best so far was 50% of her HP, and only because I respecc’d to full condition + burn dmg.

My spirit weapons get devasted in aoe.
It’s doable but would be FAR more doable if I had dots (or real dmg when ranged).

On his “zerker” comment.
It is pretty obvious that this game mostly does not require support for anything.
It is mostly zerg and dodge till the end of time.

When they dealed with the holy trinity I was lead to believe that there would be still support roles, wich became a lie.

Fortus.6175:

Charak.9761:

OP suffers from Dunning–Kruger effect.

As a guardian, I did it with scepter and highly recommend only scepter. stop trying to melee her.

Oh look, you are using sophisticated words to make your argument look more convincing. Granted, they arent sophisticated and any psychology major should know about this, but for the rest of the population this is just fancy babble.

As for the issue at hand; congratulations. What about you do it 3 more times in a row with me in front of you? Because I can guarantee you that you, like many others who beat Irongut or liadri with “less conventional methods” will say that was “skills” and not luck.

I have seen plenty of people doing it, only guardian I saw succeeding was one using GS/Staff, and even he admitted that he got lucky.

Admit it, certain classes cant do it very well, I have been running around the dome and most people “bragging” around with their mini are mesmers (a solid 8/10 times).

Im not meleeing the thing, but I have little options as to what to do when as an Ele I cant switch weapons to kill the orb and cant heal myself without COMPLETELY crippling my damage.

I can do one or the other; do damage or heal.

If I do damage, I die to constant autoattacks and the leaps, if I heal I run out of time. If I do a middle ground i still run out of time since it. is. not. enough.

My ele friend did this by going full condition dmg, condition duration and went earth scepter/dagger.

He kept making her bleeding to death.
But I wouldnt change my expensive sigils/runes for one encounter.

Reihert.1509:

My ele friend did this by going full condition dmg, condition duration and went earth scepter/dagger.

He kept making her bleeding to death.
But I wouldnt change my expensive sigils/runes for one encounter.

You, sir, have given me a brilliant idea, brb, will post results, cant believe I didnt think of this. Still doesnt fix the camera issues but if I can at least kill her before I get dropped down then I will be happy

Mel ryuzaki.1402:

I agree with Fortus. I’m in the same situation and i agree. Don’t let down on other comments many are of the “super easy” guys who repeat 50 times or can’t make it and just come to hate around, because it’s UNBEATABLE in some classes

Umm every class has beaten it so i have no clue what you are talking about.

Edit:if they reduce hp now that is like big f you for everybody who completed it so far -.-(uneless they give another mini for thoes who completed it before nerf)

After 3 days (150+ tickets) of trying to do what up till now really seemed impossible I finally beat her, on my necro. It was aggravating, annoying, enraging, confusing and frustrating beyond words and in the end the single greatest feeling of accomplishment I’ve experienced from anything in GW2. That single fight tests your skills in all facets of the game, some not as obvious as others. For instance it tests your theory crafting, understanding of encounter mechanics, understanding of your class, weapons, skills and overall game mechanics, your ability to find and share information and work together (res each other, join party so you can target, exchange strategies etc.) watch and analyze other player’s attempts and even just basic reaction speeds. It posses a very difficult and complex problem that seems impossible all the way up to the point when you solve it. And then at last you get…The Mini.

The fight itself is fine, challenging yes but far from impossible.
The problems are all in the arena.

The translucent floor.
Never-minding the fact that the floor is a a very similar shade of colour to the AoE indicator, its also not solid, so on top of it BARELY being visible, you can only see the rings partially.
I sure would hate to be colour-blind trying this fight.

The zone.
Quite simply, if I can run Crysis 3 on max at a higher framerate than what I do another game, that games optimisation is irrefutably bad.
This game does not run well. Period.
Having the event zerg pass beneath your dome during the fight causes the frame rate to plummet.
Couple that with the sheer amount of sever lag and you can find yourself loosing fights through no fault of your own.
Why not instance the top floor? People can still observe, there would a bunch less to render and hopefully, less server side lag.

The Walls.
Remove the camera’kitten box for the love of all that is sacred already.
Like, have hundreds of complaints about this over the course of the game’s lifetime not hit home yet?
Has it gotten to the point where this issue will only be acknowledged if a bunch of people spam threads in every subforum till it gets fixed?
The games camera is AWFUL, don’t sit there and say “uuuuhhh we cant let people see through walls it looks baaaad”.
That’s not an excuse.
Nobody cares.

All these things together throw a bunch of artificial difficulty the fight that shouldn’t be there.
Don’t get me wrong, I actually rather like the Gauntlet, but this is all detracting from the experience greatly.

I’ll be honest, I think these complaints are something Anet reads and does take into account. You guys have to remember this is something not many other MMO companies have tried before. It’s bound to have a few kinks in the system. Just be patient, I’m sure the next “Boss Arena” will be much better made.

Issues like these are what playtesting is for, they clearly aren’t doing a very good job of QA if things like this are being pushed into release.

Having a two week turnaround doesn’t help, but then again maybe if anet was listening moaning about meaningless temporary content they might have not gone down this road in the first place.

The fight and mechanics are absolutely fine.
I would be really disappointed if they changed it.
Although I would love to see the arena more polished for a cleaner fight.

Also, I melee’d her. So yeah, saying that ‘’non ranged classes’’ can’t do it is nonsense.
It requires proper timing and knowing when to disengage. But, I can kill her using only melee weapons on my guardian. And no, I don’t use zerker gear.

Wasbunny.6531:

After 3 days (150+ tickets) of trying to do what up till now really seemed impossible I finally beat her, on my necro. It was aggravating, annoying, enraging, confusing and frustrating beyond words and in the end the single greatest feeling of accomplishment I’ve experienced from anything in GW2. That single fight tests your skills in all facets of the game, some not as obvious as others. For instance it tests your theory crafting, understanding of encounter mechanics, understanding of your class, weapons, skills and overall game mechanics, your ability to find and share information and work together (res each other, join party so you can target, exchange strategies etc.) watch and analyze other player’s attempts and even just basic reaction speeds. It posses a very difficult and complex problem that seems impossible all the way up to the point when you solve it. And then at last you get…The Mini.

I can imagine. I’m waiting for that feeling of accomplishment myself. Haven’t felt it since Raiding in WoW on Heroic 25man Lich King

I have not changed my build since beating her yesterday and I play guard.
0/0/30(VI,V,XI)/30(I,X,XI)/10(II)
Used Retreat, HTL, SY and Tome of Wrath.
Gear was Valk with Beryl orbs in it.
Accessories 3 Valk with Beryl, 2 Berserk with azurite, and a rare pvt back pack.
Weapon was Staff(Berserk+Major sigil of BL)/GS(Berserk Sup Sigil of Blood)
Also did it with a really low level food since a friend sent it to me and told me I could do it so I did it as a joke, think the food gave me like 20 vit lol
When you get to phase 2 avoid the first drops of shadows then stay there it will buy you a bit of time to just DPS her. When you see the shadows drop move toward the next area and stay as close to the edge of were they drop so you can walk over and not worry about using a dodge to get out of the AOE balls. Trigger as many things as you can to keep your Retaliation up as she pretty much kills herself and I learned that if you attack the clones as they get to you and explode you rally off of them.

I would just be happy if I could see the the kitten red circles!