Guild Wars 2

The problem is that fighting a thief right now involves no tactics or interesting play. It’s all poke and smoke. You hit them, they stealth. You wait, they jump on you, you use your escape mechanic, and they stealth again.

It’s not only frustrating in that your escape mechanics still leave you to be hit afterwards and their escapes leave them invisible, but that even countering the thief over and over doesn’t change the fight or their approach. It’s just poke and smoke over and over and over. You have to wait on something like shadow refuge and a knockback to have any real semblance of a fight.

The distaste in player’s mouths doesn’t come from losing a fight to a thief, but simply having a fight with a thief. Win or lose, fighting a thief is unfulfilling.

TheBandicoot.5294:

you simply dont need a direct counter for something which only happens 1-2 seconds and frequently.

only? Sure, remove the freaquently and I will be ok with it, but when 85% of the fight is with the thief poping out of stealth with a backstab just tor enter it almost immediately then it becomes a problem

TheBandicoot.5294:

Thieves have their strength in solo and small group roaming, have their weakness in big groups and zerg fights.

Oh look, someone who dies when focus fired, gee, it is almost as if there was a class that could withstand 5 people o top of him and come with an Ace….

Thieves do just fine in small and medium scenarios, NOBODY do well in a big group scenario unless you have 1200 range and staff or lonbow, at which point im guessing you are referring to WvW. But in tPvP they do more than just fine in a full 5v5.

TheBandicoot.5294:

Why are there so many thieves losing? And i see a lot of them downed even in WvW.

So? I see every other class getting downed a lot your point is? And no, they do more than fine in tPvP and hot join PvP.

TheBandicoot.5294:

Still every class has something they´re best at, and for thief its escaping. Accept it.

No, eles were, before all the unnecessary nerfs anyways. But no, they have the best killing potentialon top of that, if it fails, try again 2 seconds later when you are full health, with swiftness. If things start to go awry, bam scape, but tht doesnt happen more often that not, because dead players cant kill.

TheBandicoot.5294:

I also have to accept that i am squishy as hell and cant properly fight a guardian as glas cannon, thus have to get better at it.

Wait what?! Did i read right?!

TheBandicoot.5294:

>I also have to accept that i am squishy as hell and cant properly fight a guardian as glas cannon, thus have to get better at it.

> I also have to accept that i am squishy as hell
>have to accept that i am squishy
>i am squishy
>i am

Ahh, now it all makes sense, YOu are a thief wit a very biased opinion who is always

TheBandicoot.5294:

Why are there so many thieves losing? And i see a lot of them downed even in WvW.

l2p, you are missing out in a lot of things, thieves should NEVER die in WvW, nor tPvP, all I read now is; “im bad a thief, I cant get the OP potential they have therefore they are balanced!”

Stealth is fine and a necessary component to the thieves class. I hate to say it, but this really is a learn to play scenario. Thieves are not overpowered in tournaments and in high end PvP.

However, this is because the plays are actually good and can counter a thief. But let’s change the scenario where the players are bad and instead complain on the forums on how overpowered they are, when they actually are not.

I am not for nerfing thieves, just because you can’t figure out a way to handle them. This is a team based game, if you want to kill them find a friend and watch them become useless.

Furthmore, making block end stealth would essentially break the thieves class, considering how skilless blocks are and the almighty 24 hour duration on Aegis.

You’re probably thinking I play a thief in high end tournaments, but you are sadly mistaken. I find thieves so useless, that I don’t even run them in my tournaments, and nor do my opponents. They are simply too easy to kill and don’t provide much for team fights other than a far point assaulter.

There are some amazing thieves in the ladder that are top rank, but that’s not because of their class, it’s simply the person themselves. There is considerably a large amount of players that do not run thieves in the top 1000.

I find it amusing when one has trouble countering this game’s ‘fake stealth’ in order to defeat an opponent. Stealth isn’t even permanent in GW2. It’s resource based with finite durations and you people still have problems? YOU CAN STILL HIT US WHEN WE ARE STEALTHED! Learn to use your own abilities before criticizing those of others.

I play a Thief. Skilled players kill me. Unskilled players do not. Kill or get skilled.

Chase.8415:

Thieves are not overpowered in tournaments and in high end PvP.

However, this is because the plays are actually good and can counter a thief. But let’s change the scenario where the players are bad and instead complain on the forums on how overpowered they are, when they actually are not.

Furthmore, making block end stealth would essentially break the thieves class, considering how skilless blocks are and the almighty 24 hour duration on Aegis.

Ok, first off, the “high PvP comunity” is really small, no, like REALLY small, Im talking people that play this competitive. As for high ranked PvP players even they agree STEALTH (not thieves, they are a poor victim to having the entire class work around this) is OP.

Which also reminds me, people have also “complained” (like you call it) about other things in forums like runes being broken, classes being underpowered, other classes’ mechanics being overpower, that in the end where true, and thanks to the “complains” they got fixed, stealth is one of those things that need to be fixed and ASAP if you want the gaming community to take seriously this game’s PvP.

Have you thought that maybe, just maybe, NOT EVERYONE IS A GUARDIAN?! How about some planning from a thief to begin with other than 1 2 2 2 2 6 1 2 2 2 8 move on to the next target?! How about forcing them to chage the rotation, ADAPT, have throw a dagger and THEN stealth for the hit…

You sir, are another thief player annoyed that guardians have at least a slight fighting chance vs thief. A thief that doesnt want to adapt, that spams stealth and backstab without any fear for anything since any retaliation can be jus walked away with stealth.

I dont care if you now say you suddenly play guardian and thief is your least favorite, the fact is, stealth is bad, boons associated with stealth is bad, having stealth in little to no cooldown is bad, spamming stealth is bad, no counter to stealth is bad, and you sir must be bad to accept all this.

Fortus.6175:

Chase.8415:

Thieves are not overpowered in tournaments and in high end PvP.

However, this is because the plays are actually good and can counter a thief. But let’s change the scenario where the players are bad and instead complain on the forums on how overpowered they are, when they actually are not.

Furthmore, making block end stealth would essentially break the thieves class, considering how skilless blocks are and the almighty 24 hour duration on Aegis.

Ok, first off, the “high PvP comunity” is really small, no, like REALLY small, Im talking people that play this competitive. As for high ranked PvP players even they agree STEALTH (not thieves, they are a poor victim to having the entire class work around this) is OP.

Which also reminds me, people have also “complained” (like you call it) about other things in forums like runes being broken, classes being underpowered, other classes’ mechanics being overpower, that in the end where true, and thanks to the “complains” they got fixed, stealth is one of those things that need to be fixed and ASAP if you want the gaming community to take seriously this game’s PvP.

Have you thought that maybe, just maybe, NOT EVERYONE IS A GUARDIAN?! How about some planning from a thief to begin with other than 1 2 2 2 2 6 1 2 2 2 8 move on to the next target?! How about forcing them to chage the rotation, ADAPT, have throw a dagger and THEN stealth for the hit…

You sir, are another thief player annoyed that guardians have at least a slight fighting chance vs thief. A thief that doesnt want to adapt, that spams stealth and backstab without any fear for anything since any retaliation can be jus walked away with stealth.

I dont care if you now say you suddenly play guardian and thief is your least favorite, the fact is, stealth is bad, boons associated with stealth is bad, having stealth in little to no cooldown is bad, spamming stealth is bad, no counter to stealth is bad, and you sir must be bad to accept all this.

I play Elementalist, Guardian, Necromancer, Warrior and Mesmer.

And who are these people stating that thieves are overpowered? Because I know a LOT of people in the top 1000 and I have never heard of such thing.

It is not fair to us top players to have a class nerfed simply because people are just bad at playing.

I would agree if they removed/nerfed stealth in pvp or limit to something like 1-2sec and not more.

Stealth isn’t bad in it’s current form. However, I think aegis/blocks/stuns should be the counter to stealth. If you block an attack with a block or aegis, it should reveal. If i thief gets stunned via static field/supply drop, whatever, it should also reveal. All classes have access to one of these I believe.

iCryptik.1496:

Stealth isn’t bad in it’s current form. However, I think aegis/blocks/stuns should be the counter to stealth. If you block an attack with a block or aegis, it should reveal. If i thief gets stunned via static field/supply drop, whatever, it should also reveal. All classes have access to one of these I believe.

Necro’s dont have stun or blocks. And now with DS damage going to the health bar, they don’t have any way to block huge spike damage and they don’t have any mobility to run away either.

Zietlogik.6208:

with no cost, or penalty (no revealed does NOT count).

Stopped reading here. All stealth skills have a cost, just like every skill in the game has a cost.

Usually the cost is a cooldown, but sometimes, for thieves, it’s initiative.

give to a couple of classes the ability to see enemies in stealth, done.

make reveald last 6 or 9 seconed and be aplied each time they leave stealth and lower the amount of times stealth can stack or how it works when stacking stealth, that will remove perma stealth.

Elbegast.6970:

YOU CAN STILL HIT US WHEN WE ARE STEALTHED! Learn to use your own abilities before criticizing those of others.

I play a Thief. Skilled players kill me. Unskilled players do not. Kill or get skilled.

Really again? If your opponent is lucky they can hit you in stealth as there is no way of TRACKING you…that so hard to understand? So no, that is not a counter to stealth.

If you get killed I bet it’s because engage correct? Or is it the luck of being hit while in stealth.

The fact is the most of the time it is a total troll mechanic. The tPVP community is tiny in comparison to any other. And outside of it it is a troll mechanic with NON-STOP popping in and out of stealth.

And I am sure you are not part of the 2 or more stealth teams that insta kill one or two of the other team in pvp and thus…have an unfair advantage…you know which class you kill first.

Chase.8415:

I play Elementalist, Guardian, Necromancer, Warrior and Mesmer.

And who are these people stating that thieves are overpowered? Because I know a LOT of people in the top 1000 and I have never heard of such thing.

It is not fair to us top players to have a class nerfed simply because people are just bad at playing.

Ok, i didnt want to bring this, but since you self-called yourself a “top player” I had to do this to bring you down from your biased cloud;

you are not in the top 100, not top 150, nor top 200, nor top 250, not even top 350. Yes I took the time and effort to look you up, sorry you are not there, therefore you are not a

Chase.8415:

It is not fair to us top players

With that out of the table, I will bring the next point, you, like most of the people in the game play multiple classes, congratulations. I myself have played thieves plenty of time and I wholeheartly agree with what everyone who is agaisnt stealth is this thread is saying.

Dont bother to look me up, if anything look from the bottom up, I have never stated Im a pro, if anythign Im a semi hardcore casual who plays mostly 5v5 solo queue hotjoins and tournaments, like the vast majority of the people in the game.

Its ok to have bias, you are only human, but dont try to back yourself up with thinking you are the “best out there, everyone else sucks” mentality.

Truth of the matter is; stealth is one of the main reason people avoid PvP, and while the top1% of the game doesnt consider it a problem, everyone below that ladder that doesnt play thief does consider it a problem , whether it is real or conceived. Even if it wasnt a “problem” and it were to be perfectly balanced now, nobody likes it, nobody finds it fun but the thief. A game is to have fun, if the vast majority does not have fun, they wont play.

Marketing 101; create stuff people want, not “force” them to see it is the right thing

Korsbaek.9803:

make reveald last 6 or 9 seconed and be aplied each time they leave stealth and lower the amount of times stealth can stack or how it works when stacking stealth, that will remove perma stealth.

This might just be the most simple idea, but it could really work. I think 10-15 secs would be more reasonable though. Thieves would still be able to come out of nowhere and BS-stun you to 50% hp so it might be an ok compromise.

Fortus.6175:

Chase.8415:

I play Elementalist, Guardian, Necromancer, Warrior and Mesmer.

And who are these people stating that thieves are overpowered? Because I know a LOT of people in the top 1000 and I have never heard of such thing.

It is not fair to us top players to have a class nerfed simply because people are just bad at playing.

Ok, i didnt want to bring this, but since you self-called yourself a “top player” I had to do this to bring you down from your biased cloud;

you are not in the top 100, not top 150, nor top 200, nor top 250, not even top 350. Yes I took the time and effort to look you up, sorry you are not there, therefore you are not a

Chase.8415:

It is not fair to us top players

With that out of the table, I will bring the next point, you, like most of the people in the game play multiple classes, congratulations. I myself have played thieves plenty of time and I wholeheartly agree with what everyone who is agaisnt stealth is this thread is saying.

Dont bother to look me up, if anything look from the bottom up, I have never stated Im a pro, if anythign Im a semi hardcore casual who plays mostly 5v5 solo queue hotjoins and tournaments, like the vast majority of the people in the game.

Its ok to have bias, you are only human, but dont try to back yourself up with thinking you are the “best out there, everyone else sucks” mentality.

Truth of the matter is; stealth is one of the main reason people avoid PvP, and while the top1% of the game doesnt consider it a problem, everyone below that ladder that doesnt play thief does consider it a problem , whether it is real or conceived. Even if it wasnt a “problem” and it were to be perfectly balanced now, nobody likes it, nobody finds it fun but the thief. A game is to have fun, if the vast majority does not have fun, they wont play.

Marketing 101; create stuff people want, not “force” them to see it is the right thing

I have been in the top 1000 several times, just because I don’t show up on the website doesn’t mean I never have, or not know who the top end teams. When you are in the top 10% bracket, nearly all teams you face are in top 1000. I know exactly what is being ran, plus I have several high end friends.

THe website does not show any former players who hit top 1000, only the current top 1000; and even so my best has only been 485 in June.

I am not the best, but I am aware of what people are running and it surely isn’t thieves.

I’m really surprised about the amount of people that state there is no counter to stealth, or that it comes at no cost.

Weapon Skills

C&D: Not the easiest to land, comes at a high cost of initiative, and the thief has to come into melee range. Dodging, blinds, distortion, invulnerability, aegis, cc’s and teleports all counter this skill from landing.

BP + HS: Comes at a massive initiative cost but is easier to pull off than C&D because it requires no target. Can be countered by interrupts, and push/pulls, leaving the thief with next to no initiative.

Utilities

Most stealth providing utilities cannot be countered easily. This is like any profession’s utilities, a warrior’s endure pain cannot be countered, and an engineer’s invulnerability cannot either. Shadow refuge can still be countered by using a push or pull in the field, or laying down multiple aoe’s. All utilities come at a cost, which is using a space on your limited bar.

Countering stealth in general

The best, yet hardest way to counter stealth is to predict the opponents movements while they are in stealth. The thief usually has 3-4 seconds to make an attack from stealth, so predict when they will attack by their distance from you when entering stealth. A well timed dodge or block will waste their attack, then they will have limited time or they will be revealed, and then you attack them.

I find it funny that people complain that they can’t track a thief in stealth; that seems like it would completely defeat the point of stealth wouldn’t it? Predicting a player’s movements isn’t the easiest thing to do, but it’s definitely possible, and is a skill that is acquired after familiarizing yourself with your enemy.

Other simple things are using your auto attack to hit them while in stealth, laying down aoe’s underneath yourself, and popping invulnerability utilities.

Stealth is hardly a free, un-counterable mechanic, and is merely in line with the numerous other survival traits that other classes possess.

Nex.2450:

I’m really surprised about the amount of people that state there is no counter to stealth, or that it comes at no cost.

Weapon Skills

C&D: Not the easiest to land, comes at a high cost of initiative, and the thief has to come into melee range. Dodging, blinds, distortion, invulnerability, aegis, cc’s and teleports all counter this skill from landing.

BP + HS: Comes at a massive initiative cost but is easier to pull off than C&D because it requires no target. Can be countered by interrupts, and push/pulls, leaving the thief with next to no initiative.

Utilities

Most stealth providing utilities cannot be countered easily. This is like any profession’s utilities, a warrior’s endure pain cannot be countered, and an engineer’s invulnerability cannot either. Shadow refuge can still be countered by using a push or pull in the field, or laying down multiple aoe’s. All utilities come at a cost, which is using a space on your limited bar.

Countering stealth in general

The best, yet hardest way to counter stealth is to predict the opponents movements while they are in stealth. The thief usually has 3-4 seconds to make an attack from stealth, so predict when they will attack by their distance from you when entering stealth. A well timed dodge or block will waste their attack, then they will have limited time or they will be revealed, and then you attack them.

I find it funny that people complain that they can’t track a thief in stealth; that seems like it would completely defeat the point of stealth wouldn’t it? Predicting a player’s movements isn’t the easiest thing to do, but it’s definitely possible, and is a skill that is acquired after familiarizing yourself with your enemy.

Other simple things are using your auto attack to hit them while in stealth, laying down aoe’s underneath yourself, and popping invulnerability utilities.

Stealth is hardly a free, un-counterable mechanic, and is merely in line with the numerous other survival traits that other classes possess.

Nothing you listed counters stealth, they are simply things you can/should do when someone stealths. You seem to not understand the difference that lies between the mechanic and the person using it. Laying down Aoes etc. is not a counter to stealth, this is something used on any player regardless of class, or abilities, just like a guardians circles or engineers turrets, you simply do the same thing because their skill “localizes” their location for you briefly.

Yes you can throw down AoE…stealth has nothing to do with this, yes you can try and use CCs, again, stealth has nothing to do with this. The issue isn’t the thief, it is the stealth. You completely missed the point of the thread.

Being able to instantly drop target, re-position, and gain the many many advantages of not being seen or tracked is just too much for how this game is currently built. And for thieves in particular, gain speed, healing, condition removal, etc. etc. etc. is putting it even more over the top.

All of your thief counters are viable, but they are more appealing on paper than in practice…and they are thief counters, not stealth counters.

I like your comparisons to other utilities, but there are fundamental flaws with them. Endure Pain? Blocks physical damage….thats it, you are still free to be conditioned, pushed, pulled, blinded, knocked down, immobilized, slowed, and basically everything EXCEPT take physical damage…this has nowhere near the utility of stealth. Engineer’s invuln? (and Guardians) Last a couple seconds….on a massive recharge, and pretty much disable you for its duration….still nowhere near the utility of stealth.

Then there are the applications of stealth-stomping….why this exists is beyond me, I am sure they must have left this balance decision to a kittened monkey in the Anet closet somewhere. There is pretty much no reason to even have a down state if a thief is nearby, unless you want to troll him for a few extra seconds as an ele ;/

Predicting an enemies movements is a counter? It is strange I tend to do that with any ground targeted abilities regardless of class….stealth has an impact on this how? Oh right, because you have to randomly swing in a direction you think they went. Because god forbid you shouldn’t be aloud to track a player using a basic human sense called vision, that is reserved for fighting the lesser classes of GW2.

Stealth is hardly a free, un-counterable mechanic, and is merely in line with the numerous other survival traits that other classes possess.

I need to re-quote this a second time….Yes it is, an no it is not. Stealth is not a counterable mechanic, but a thief is. There is a difference.

Nex.2450:

…snip…pretty much stealth has a counter…

I am not arguing that…but the counters you thieves keep coming up with are based on pure dumb luck and spamming 1.

Come on, let’s try to be unbiased here…just a little. Can you honestly say stealth is fine the way it is? With is only counter’s being pure luck or spamming 1?

As bad is that is I think most people could deal with those being the only counter. It’s the thieves ability to just spam stealth over and over and over and over that has people hating on stealth, this simply should not be possible.

Thieves have the best mobility by far (as they should). The ability to choose how and when a fight starts (as they should). Insane healing in stealth (mmmmm). The ability to stay in stealth if damage taken (Really?). Top three on burst (as they should). Insane attack speed (sure, why not).

But spammable stealth? If a thief gets the jump on you your health is almost instantly down to 50%, if not more….is that really not enough for the thief community? Do you really need a spammable stealth that is used as a troll mechanic by 90% of the thief community? Yes I made that number up, because well…that’s what most thieves I encounter use it as.

Zietlogik.6208:

…

Define Counter: to react to something with an opposing opinion or action, or to defend yourself against something.

Nothing you listed counters stealth, they are simply things you can/should do when someone stealths.

Facepalm. That’s exactly what a counter is. The things I stated either prevent access to stealth, or negate the damage that is applied from stealth.

You’re definition of countering stealth is much too limited. Everything I have suggested is a way to react, and defend yourself when a player attempts to stealth or attack from stealth. These tactics are not limited to thieves, as other classes have access to this mechanic.

Endure Pain? Blocks physical damage….thats it, you are still free to be conditioned, pushed, pulled, blinded, knocked down, immobilized, slowed, and basically everything EXCEPT take physical damage…this has nowhere near the utility of stealth.

Stealth drops target, makes the player invisible, and any traited effects take action. It does not protect from anything that you listed that endure pain does not protect from, nor does it protect from physical damage. I am not saying that every utility is exactly on par with stealth, there are ones that are better and ones that are worse.

Also, you made no rebuttal to how stealth DOES cost something, and by “countering” it like I said, the person will lose the opportunity for that stealth, yet still have to pay the cost.

Anyways, it really helps if you try it out yourself by playing a thief. You’ll see that while stealth is very helpful, it is not nearly as overpowered as you make it out to be. And if you have already played a thief thoroughly than I guess we shall agree to disagree.

Nex.2450:

Zietlogik.6208:

…

Define Counter: to react to something with an opposing opinion or action, or to defend yourself against something.

Nothing you listed counters stealth, they are simply things you can/should do when someone stealths.

Facepalm. That’s exactly what a counter is. The things I stated either prevent access to stealth, or negate the damage that is applied from stealth.

You’re definition of countering stealth is much too limited. Everything I have suggested is a way to react, and defend yourself when a player attempts to stealth or attack from stealth. These tactics are not limited to thieves, as other classes have access to this mechanic.

Endure Pain? Blocks physical damage….thats it, you are still free to be conditioned, pushed, pulled, blinded, knocked down, immobilized, slowed, and basically everything EXCEPT take physical damage…this has nowhere near the utility of stealth.

Stealth drops target, makes the player invisible, and any traited effects take action. It does not protect from anything that you listed that endure pain does not protect from, nor does it protect from physical damage. I am not saying that every utility is exactly on par with stealth, there are ones that are better and ones that are worse.

Also, you made no rebuttal to how stealth DOES cost something, and by “countering” it like I said, the person will lose the opportunity for that stealth, yet still have to pay the cost.

Anyways, it really helps if you try it out yourself by playing a thief. You’ll see that while stealth is very helpful, it is not nearly as overpowered as you make it out to be. And if you have already played a thief thoroughly than I guess we shall agree to disagree.

We will have to simply agree to disagree then. My second 80, and only other fully geared character, is my thief (I tend to play melee classes in RPGs, so this was an instant decision for me.)

I enjoy it thoroughly, but again, this is not about the thief, this is about the in-combat effectiveness of stealth overall. The issues are simply augmented by quick access with low penalty by in particular, the thief class, but that is a separate topic.

I really don’t understand how thieves think Stealth as it is now is ok. It is the only mechanic that does not have another mechanic to counter it. Conditions —> Condition removal, Direct Damage —> Blocks and invulnerability, Stuns —> Stun breakers, Stealth —> “Swing wildly and burn your AoE cooldowns trying to find the thief.”

The last one is not a counter. Blocking should be the counter. If a thief attacks someone who is blocking they should be revealed. How stupid does it sound to be blocking and have something hit your shield and still think “Holy crap where did that come from”

I am not asking for a nerf to thieves, just a mechanic that counters theirs.

If they renamed stealth to invisibility it would be more honest what it is.

Tuck.4095:

If they renamed stealth to invisibility it would be more honest what it is.

Mesmers even get a skill called “Mass Invisibility” yet it grants stealth. Go figure.

Team stealth to me is worse than a thief annoyance. A team appearing on top of you out of no where with instant massive lag and 10000 status conditions on you, oh what fun.

kelman.9451:

Team stealth to me is worse than a thief annoyance. A team appearing on top of you out of no where with instant massive lag and 10000 status conditions on you, oh what fun.

Veil at most lasts 3 seconds.

Sustained damage builds can’t kill a stealth built thief. I understand most people run around in ‘zerker gear, but as a full exotic/ascended soldier geared Necro I can get them to 50%, they pop stealth, heal up (while keeping me from regening any significant amount) and just keep resetting the fight until I’m down. You shouldn’t have to play a glass cannon to be able to kill a thief. One would actually think the contrary- someone able to take a beating would realistically be better suited to taking out an assassin.

Zindrix.1750:

kelman.9451:

Team stealth to me is worse than a thief annoyance. A team appearing on top of you out of no where with instant massive lag and 10000 status conditions on you, oh what fun.

Veil at most lasts 3 seconds.

Refuge lasts roughly 10 seconds, but ofc it could just be a portal bomb + veil

Chrispytoast.3698:

I really don’t understand how thieves think Stealth as it is now is ok. It is the only mechanic that does not have another mechanic to counter it. Conditions —> Condition removal, Direct Damage --> Blocks and invulnerability, Stuns —> Stun breakers, Stealth --> “Swing wildly and burn your AoE cooldowns trying to find the thief.”

The last one is not a counter. Blocking should be the counter. If a thief attacks someone who is blocking they should be revealed. How stupid does it sound to be blocking and have something hit your shield and still think “Holy crap where did that come from”

I am not asking for a nerf to thieves, just a mechanic that counters theirs.

Stealth —> brain…

Can you write me counter to invul, endure pain…etc. please?

Tamaki Revolution.3548:

Mnemesis.8257:

I personally advocate for stealth to be removed from weapon sets and remain completely utilitarian with a minimum of 45 second cd when traited.

X.x I’d like to use Sneak Attack more than once every 45 seconds, kthnx.

This is hilarious. Why should you get to? Go try playing a burst elementalist. Firegrab? 45 seconds.

Endure pain – still vulnerable to cc and conditions

Zietlogik.6208:

Zindrix.1750:

kelman.9451:

Team stealth to me is worse than a thief annoyance. A team appearing on top of you out of no where with instant massive lag and 10000 status conditions on you, oh what fun.

Veil at most lasts 3 seconds.

Refuge lasts roughly 10 seconds, but ofc it could just be a portal bomb + veil

Completely forgot about that. Probably because most thieves in WvW are using it solo and could care less about teamwork.

Stealth also reduces the number of viable builds in WvW, as it is one of the mechanics that forces people to run AoE skills. AoE is one of the only semi-viable counters to stealth.

(And even then it is not rightly called a counter).

Trego.6182:

Chrispytoast.3698:

I really don’t understand how thieves think Stealth as it is now is ok. It is the only mechanic that does not have another mechanic to counter it. Conditions —> Condition removal, Direct Damage --> Blocks and invulnerability, Stuns —> Stun breakers, Stealth --> “Swing wildly and burn your AoE cooldowns trying to find the thief.”

The last one is not a counter. Blocking should be the counter. If a thief attacks someone who is blocking they should be revealed. How stupid does it sound to be blocking and have something hit your shield and still think “Holy crap where did that come from”

I am not asking for a nerf to thieves, just a mechanic that counters theirs.

Stealth —> brain…

Can you write me counter to invul, endure pain…etc. please?

Endure pain: Conditions.

Invulnerability: Can’t use utility or weapon skills.

Trego.6182:

Chrispytoast.3698:

I really don’t understand how thieves think Stealth as it is now is ok. It is the only mechanic that does not have another mechanic to counter it. Conditions —> Condition removal, Direct Damage --> Blocks and invulnerability, Stuns —> Stun breakers, Stealth --> “Swing wildly and burn your AoE cooldowns trying to find the thief.”

The last one is not a counter. Blocking should be the counter. If a thief attacks someone who is blocking they should be revealed. How stupid does it sound to be blocking and have something hit your shield and still think “Holy crap where did that come from”

I am not asking for a nerf to thieves, just a mechanic that counters theirs.

Stealth —> brain…

Can you write me counter to invul, endure pain…etc. please?

Okay then

Invulnerability- You still take condition damage with all invulnerability mechanics, five of the nine invulnerability mechanics prevent you from moving and attacking, one is granted randomly, two allow for new conditions to be applied, two allow for you to be CC’d. In fact the only invulnerability effect with no drawback whatsoever is the Elementalist’s Obsidian Flesh.

Endure Pain- The counter is listed in the bloody description… can you not read?

And as for the remainder

Stability- boon stripping
Clones- AoE
Evasion- Immobilize
Block- Unblockable attacks (and CCs in the case of some blocks)
Walls, bubbles, and wards- teleport, stability, jumping
Protection- Boon stripping
Reflection- Melee, boon stripping
Stealth- Nothing

And if you say ‘AoE spam’, frankly, you’re an idiot. The amount of movement possible in this game by any class, let alone the thief, is completely disproportionate to the amount of ground even a full suite of AoEs can cover. Even the glassiest built thief isn’t in danger from any amount of randomly placed AoE fields.

Trego.6182:

Chrispytoast.3698:

I really don’t understand how thieves think Stealth as it is now is ok. It is the only mechanic that does not have another mechanic to counter it. Conditions —> Condition removal, Direct Damage --> Blocks and invulnerability, Stuns —> Stun breakers, Stealth --> “Swing wildly and burn your AoE cooldowns trying to find the thief.”

The last one is not a counter. Blocking should be the counter. If a thief attacks someone who is blocking they should be revealed. How stupid does it sound to be blocking and have something hit your shield and still think “Holy crap where did that come from”

I am not asking for a nerf to thieves, just a mechanic that counters theirs.

Stealth —> brain…

Can you write me counter to invul, endure pain…etc. please?

Ya…..Endure Pain has its counter and pretty much a “how-to-deal-with-endure-pain” guide built right into its tooltip -.-;

A small step they could take to dealing with stealth, is visibility (shocker!)

Dealing certain types of condition damage changing your character’s color already (fire could be red, chill=blue, poison=green, etc.)

Having one of these conditions applied to you when you enter stealth would more or less “paint” you, so you would still be transparent, but you would be partially visible until the conditions are cleared.

It is slight, but it would still work…kinda

The biggest problem with stealth right now is that stealthed players can stomp. Initiating a stomp should by all means break the stealth so downed players get a fair chance to use their interrupt. This obviously isn’t as much of an issue if you’re packing an AoE interrupt.

Stealth should ‘break’ on damage taken.

Fungalfoot.7213:

The biggest problem with stealth right now is that stealthed players can stomp. Initiating a stomp should by all means break the stealth so downed players get a fair chance to use their interrupt. This obviously isn’t as much of an issue if you’re packing an AoE interrupt.

This doesn’t prevent mist stomping, or blind stomping, but one less form of un-counterable finishers is always a good step