Guild Wars 2

Just completed my first Orr zone and thought I’d provide my personal feedback.

The levelling experience in Gw2 is the best I have ever encountered, until now. My highest character is level 76 w/ 200 hours played and I have been playing since launch. This is because I really take my time with levelling, experience the beautiful zones to their fullest. It normally takes me between 2-3 days to finish a zone 100% and I feel satisfied at the end and excited to move onto the next. I finished Straits 100% in around 2 hours and I just feel…meh.

There are a few reasons for this.

1) No heart quests. Personally, I found Heart quests to be refreshing and have enjoyed doing them in other zones. The cynics out there say that they are just normal quests from other MMOs dressed up nicely and disguised but hey, maybe I am shallow – I enjoyed them. I was a little miffed when I opened my map and found there was no Hearts to be done, they are a good way to explore the zone to it’s fullest.

2) I currently have over 600 screenshots of this game because I love to kick back and spend time to admire the world you have created. It was a struggle running from A to B with every mob being able to CC me, let alone kick back and look at the view. I felt like I had to run through the whole zone or die.

3) I feel like you’ve changed from your previous philosophy with regards to making things fun for the sake of fun, and easier too. Things like waypoints, right-click deposit for collectibles and separate bank space for crafting mats, the actual crafting UI are just some examples of little ways you have made this game run smoother for your players compared to other games. But you’ve lost this in Orr. Nearly every waypoint in Orr is constantly contested which made me wonder why I was opening them in the first place. One of my fave things about Gw2 is that I can rez anybody. I love rezzing people and helping them and ALWAYS go out of my way to travel the map using waypoints to quickly revive somebody if they are down. Somebody asked in map chat earlier if anybody could revive him in Triumph’s Plaza and I wanted to, but every waypoint was contested, I was on the other side of the map and the struggle to get to him from the copious amount of mobs would probably mean it would take 5+ mins to reach him and I could die in the process.

4) The mobs themselves aren’t difficult. Frustrating with their CC, yes, but not difficult. It is their density that makes the zone a challenge and I think this was rather cheap. I’m not saying make the zone easier, it’s just, no matter how good my wife, for example, gets (she is not the best of players :P ), she is still gonna die to 7 mobs. It is the wrong type of difficulty. The mob density and aggro range intimidates her to her an extent.

5) As said before, I completed the zone 100% in under 2 hours this is because I just ran from A-B as best as I could doing skill points etc. I didn’t participate in any events because their was never anybody around to do them. In previous zones, I have been able to solo a lot of events but not here. The map chat was full of people asking ‘where is the zerg’ and other people saying ‘there aren’t enough people’. I have two problems with this. A) I don’t know why you changed from your previous zones and made it so that Orr events could only be successfully enjoyed as a zerg and the execution of this poor philosophy has by all means failed when there aren’t enough people to do the events designed for multiple people.

6) A lot of people have voiced their discontent of three whole zones full of the exact same type of mob and I will add my voice to this. It’s boring and is not easy to look at although I ran past everything and didn’t stay and fight anything for fear of pulling too many mobs.

To conclude, I basically feel that you’ve gone from ‘they will love this and this will make it easier for everybody!’ to ’let’s make orr as frustrating as possible by making every WP contested so they have to run everywhere, then make every mob CC to make this a total chore, then add way more mobs than necessary to really stick it to them!’ there is a line between a challenge and being a chore and I feel you crossed it.

Just to remind you, this is strictly my personal feedback. I don’t presume to talk on behalf of the masses or anybody apart from me and my wife.

If you have differing opinions, I am eager to hear and discuss them in an adult manner.

Finally, again sorry that it is a wall of text but I hope you can appreciate that I have tried to put my feedback in a concise and well-written manner.

Romeo

Attached in a screeny of the poor guy in map chat asking to be rezzed

You’re in Orr, Zhaitan’s home, do you think he is just gonna let you run around and do what you want without making it annoying for you?

deltryxz.7960:

You’re in Orr, Zhaitan’s home, do you think he is just gonna let you run around and do what you want without making it annoying for you?

Games are supposed to be fun. This…is just annoying (aka lame, not fun, something to avoid, won’t make devs money).

lollie.5816:

deltryxz.7960:

You’re in Orr, Zhaitan’s home, do you think he is just gonna let you run around and do what you want without making it annoying for you?

Games are supposed to be fun. This…is just annoying (aka lame, not fun, something to avoid, won’t make devs money).

I enjoyed the Chaos that is Orr because it makes sense Lore wise. I know not everyone cares about lore, but this fits it which is what allowed me to enjoy it.

Yep, I do my level 80 stuff in Frostgorge Sound, I do not go back to Orr unless I absolutely have to. I agree with the OP, it is NOT fun there.

Orr is a War Zone, no more no less.
You can FEEL the difference when you are there.. and when, example, you’re in Bloodtide Coast. No one adventuring here, if is not the Pact or crazies one!

deltryxz.7960:

You’re in Orr, Zhaitan’s home, do you think he is just gonna let you run around and do what you want without making it annoying for you?

If you’d read my thread properly you’d see that I understand the concept behind Orr and the design decisions they made but feel that in reality, it’s execution is a detriment to the rest of the game.

Your snarky logical answer can be applied to any part of the game so far whether you are in a bandit’s hideout or dredge tunnels – so why are there Heart quests there and not here?

Like I said, I can understand WHY they have made Orr like it is, but in so doing this, I believe they have deviated away from many of the philosophies that have made the game so fun up until now.

Just because Orr is Zhaitan’s home doesn’t mean the game has to cease being fun and start being annoying.

Fun is subjective. I find Orr to be fun.

konosh.4721:

Fun is subjective. I find Orr to be fun.

Well there’s always one or two masochists in every crowd.

deltryxz.7960:

lollie.5816:

deltryxz.7960:

You’re in Orr, Zhaitan’s home, do you think he is just gonna let you run around and do what you want without making it annoying for you?

Games are supposed to be fun. This…is just annoying (aka lame, not fun, something to avoid, won’t make devs money).

I enjoyed the Chaos that is Orr because it makes sense Lore wise. I know not everyone cares about lore, but this fits it which is what allowed me to enjoy it.

lol Chaos? What Chaos in Orr? It just felt like a generic zone to me…

The mob density isn’t a problem if you either CC them and run (dodging here and there) or just fight your way through them (if you run for a while and then try to fight; yes, you will end up fighting like 10 of them at once, but they are spread out enough that you shouldn’t have to fight more than 2 or 3 at most at a time if you work through it). For someone like me though, fighting off 10 generic enemies at once isn’t a challenge at all in this game.

Secondly in terms of design (not the aesthetics per say, but the mechanics mostly) it doesn’t seem like much though was put into the general mobs of Orr:

*There should be more patrols, hordes, of Risen roaming around in groups
*Instead of walking/running they should move more disturbingly, leaps and lunges, moving around in jerks and bursts; moving in an almost unnatural sort of way (“zombies” moving normally are boring, limping around is just overused)

I mean Orr is alright overall, but it could have been much better and seems just kind of rushed. The events don’t “snowflake” out like I heard Anet say in a video somewhere, the events just seem kind of generic when they could have been way more epic (where are my sieges and siege weapons I mean they could have had way more events with them like at Lone Post in Straights of Dev, or that Risen ship siege in Sparkfly Fen).

I mean we are supposed to be on the enemies front doorstep right?

I never thought there would be something other than underwater fights that I would hate. I hate Orr more than underwater fights. Can’t wait until I’m done with Orr. Almost finished Malchor, need to wait until a temple is uncontested, so I can get the skill challenge, poi and wp. In a group, Orr might not be bad, but solo, horrible. So many annoying mobs and a lot of them too.

Its the headquarters of a ancient more-than-a-god dragon of the undead that have an almost infinite source of corpses to raise their army and he raised the entire place from the deeps of the sea where it was for like 300 years… ¿You think that would be a nice place to take a look out?

BUT! plaguebearers are annoying, mob should be harder/challengier but not annoying. Besides that, Orr is exactly what is supposed to do.

A plus this game has is exactly that, every region, every zone has their own historical background and the things you have to do and how “enemies are” in those zones are very related.

I tend to agree with the OP in most respects. I understand why Orr is a nasty place to be in — and it should be hard — but I also feel that now the initial influx of people have leveled their mains through to 80 the populations of those zones (except for bots and certain spots in Cursed Shore) are far too low relative to the opposition.

When I leveled my first char through Straits of Devastation and Malchor’s Leap those zones were great because there were plenty of people around wanting to participate in the dynamic events. With my second character it was much more difficult because the population had thinned out…and I just leveled my third through those zones and did nothing more than “run for my life” like the OP did because as far as I could tell there were fewer than a dozen non-bot players in the entire zone. There was never any chance of doing any of the really fun dynamic events — Temple of Balthazar, etc — because there simply weren’t enough bodies around for there to be any chance of succeeding.

It’s a little different in Cursed Shore because it’s a “true” L80 zone so it has its appeal for farmers (mats nodes, karma, consistently L80 mod drops, etc); but I think the mob density and event balance needs to be tweaked down a little now to account for the much lower player population in those other two regions (at least on my server) or else there needs to be more incentive for a L80 player to return to those zones later to participate in those events, bringing the population back to a level where the dynamic events are achievable again. Otherwise for a player leveling through the zones there’s nothing to achieve/do other than tag the skill points, jump quickly to the vistas then plummet back down, run past the eternally contested waypoints, and zip by the PoIs. They’re no longer zones to “game” in and explore…they’re regions to be endured for the minimum possible amount of time before going somewhere more fun to be in. (More fun doesn’t mean “easier”…it means somewhere that there’s a chance of being able to do the DEs, etc and enjoy the gaming experience)

Sollith.3502:

deltryxz.7960:

lollie.5816:

deltryxz.7960:

You’re in Orr, Zhaitan’s home, do you think he is just gonna let you run around and do what you want without making it annoying for you?

Games are supposed to be fun. This…is just annoying (aka lame, not fun, something to avoid, won’t make devs money).

I enjoyed the Chaos that is Orr because it makes sense Lore wise. I know not everyone cares about lore, but this fits it which is what allowed me to enjoy it.

lol Chaos? What Chaos in Orr? It just felt like a generic zone to me…

The mob density isn’t a problem if you either CC them and run (dodging here and there) or just fight your way through them (if you run for a while and then try to fight; yes, you will end up fighting like 10 of them at once, but they are spread out enough that you shouldn’t have to fight more than 2 or 3 at most at a time if you work through it). For someone like me though, fighting off 10 generic enemies at once isn’t a challenge at all in this game.

Secondly in terms of design (not the aesthetics per say, but the mechanics mostly) it doesn’t seem like much though was put into the general mobs of Orr:

*There should be more patrols, hordes, of Risen roaming around in groups
*Instead of walking/running they should move more disturbingly, leaps and lunges, moving around in jerks and bursts; moving in an almost unnatural sort of way (“zombies” moving normally are boring, limping around is just overused)

I mean Orr is alright overall, but it could have been much better and seems just kind of rushed. The events don’t “snowflake” out like I heard Anet say in a video somewhere, the events just seem kind of generic when they could have been way more epic (where are my sieges and siege weapons I mean they could have had way more events with them like at Lone Post in Straights of Dev, or that Risen ship siege in Sparkfly Fen).

I mean we are supposed to be on the enemies front doorstep right?

Yeah..lose a few fights out there and see what happens to the outposts. The risen arent sentient at all, they are being completely controlled through Zhaitan. Why should they lunge and burst? Actually some of them do..the thieves will teleport behind you and heartseeker you, the guardians and necros prefer to chill or pull you to them and why not..its easier than chasing you down. The movement you talk about seems cool..but unnaturally made for a horror movie just for the purpose of fright as well..doesnt seem like the way things would work at all. Honestly, the thing is everybody concentrates on Orr but it snowflakes at like level 55 or so…you begin to see more and more undead and the pact trying to push them back. By the time you get to Orr, the Pact has already entrenched themselves deep in the land..they are in front of Arah already. Alot of the moving into their territory and taking back lands is done in the personal story.

There is also several places that give you the “last standing post” feel in Malchor’s leap especially. People just get tired of doing any event that doesnt give them a karma merchant.

1. I HATE hearts, with a passion. HATE HATE HATE.

2. No hearts made me love Orr, so many different events in their place just run around and explore.

3. It’s not easy mode, the rest of the game is just WAY too easy. And while the occasional CC on the mobs is annoying, it’s really not THAT bad. I would love to have a zone that’s maybe even harder just to encourage grouping up with people and just going out to explore and deal with really dangerous mobs. Old school MMO style.

Some good responses!

I’ll try and respond to you guys individually

Konosh: I know fun is subjective! I even put this “Just to remind you, this is strictly my personal feedback. I don’t presume to talk on behalf of the masses or anybody apart from me and my wife.” at the end of my thread to stop responses like this!

Sollith: I disagree with the first point of your response (obviously, I made a thread about it xD ) My builds and a lot of classes require you to be quite mobile whilst fighting various mobs, and it is too easy to lose control of the fight but accidently tagging mobs with huge aggro ranges whilst kiting etc. Also, it is impossible, or ridiculously difficult (probably impossible), to run past a mob or more in Orr without being hindered, chilled, feared or dragged back. If you can do it or know somebody who can run through Orr without being CC’d a copious amount I’d like to see a vid, if possible, because no offense, I don’t believe you also it’s interesting some of the words you use in your reply like ‘work through it’, it kind of cements my own beliefs, that Orr is more work, than fun. I agree with the second half of your response, thanks for taking the time to reply!

Quelris: Thanks for the support, although I am sad you are disliking it like me.

Alexander Dragonfang: The home of an “ancient more-than-a-god dragon of the undead that have an almost infinite source of corpses to raise their army and he raised the entire place from the deeps of the sea where it was for like 300 years” doesn’t have to be, in your own words, ‘nice’ to look at haha. But a location of such immensity should be awe-inspiring and unfortunately I was too busy running for my life to soak it all in.

Lori: Thank you for a brilliant, well-written response and I agree with everything you wrote. I do believe it is an issue.

Ditton: Thanks for the reponse. I haven’t gone to Malchor’s Leap yet, and tbh, I am kind of dreading it.

Knote: Thanks for replying. 1) You are indeed entitled to your opinion. Myself, I found them to be refreshing, and we used them as ‘markers’ whilst exploring a map, that is, we went to a Heart, did it, whilst getting any PoI/Vista/SP near it. I thought they added a great structure to a map.

2)In the particular zone I just completed, I didn’t do a single event because there was nobody there to do them with. The whole zone literally consisted of me running for my life for two hours going from POI to SP, and that’s it. Also, people looking for ‘zergs’ in Map Chat demonstrated to me the shift in philosophy of their design from the rest of the game to Orr; I could solo events in previous events, I didn’t need, or want, a zerg to do well.

3)‘Occasional CC’ – Lol, are you serious? I am at a loss with this comment. Also, there is a thin line between encouraging groups, and forcing people into groups. Whilst old school MMOs where cool, times have unfortunately changed. The gaming audience is a lot more self-centred these days, with their own progression in the forefront of their minds. These days, there are a lot of people that like to do things solo or with their wife and I believe they/we should have the ability to do that. Thanks for the response!!

Romeo.4378:

deltryxz.7960:

You’re in Orr, Zhaitan’s home, do you think he is just gonna let you run around and do what you want without making it annoying for you?

If you’d read my thread properly you’d see that I understand the concept behind Orr and the design decisions they made but feel that in reality, it’s execution is a detriment to the rest of the game.

Your snarky logical answer can be applied to any part of the game so far whether you are in a bandit’s hideout or dredge tunnels – so why are there Heart quests there and not here?

Like I said, I can understand WHY they have made Orr like it is, but in so doing this, I believe they have deviated away from many of the philosophies that have made the game so fun up until now.

Just because Orr is Zhaitan’s home doesn’t mean the game has to cease being fun and start being annoying.

I have fun in Orr. Fun is relative to the person. I do what I want in GW2. When I miss the intense action of large group PvE (like I had with WoW raids) I go to Orr. Otherwise I go elsewhere. You are not required to complete the map.

Just because Orr isn’t fun for you doesn’t mean that it isn’t for others.

Make a few friends and it should be easy for you to find groups for these zones if you just want to clear them and never touch them again because the difficulty turns you off.

Sniderbl.5916:

Romeo.4378:

deltryxz.7960:

You’re in Orr, Zhaitan’s home, do you think he is just gonna let you run around and do what you want without making it annoying for you?

If you’d read my thread properly you’d see that I understand the concept behind Orr and the design decisions they made but feel that in reality, it’s execution is a detriment to the rest of the game.

Your snarky logical answer can be applied to any part of the game so far whether you are in a bandit’s hideout or dredge tunnels – so why are there Heart quests there and not here?

Like I said, I can understand WHY they have made Orr like it is, but in so doing this, I believe they have deviated away from many of the philosophies that have made the game so fun up until now.

Just because Orr is Zhaitan’s home doesn’t mean the game has to cease being fun and start being annoying.

I have fun in Orr. Fun is relative to the person. I do what I want in GW2. When I miss the intense action of large group PvE (like I had with WoW raids) I go to Orr. Otherwise I go elsewhere. You are not required to complete the map.

Just because Orr isn’t fun for you doesn’t mean that it isn’t for others.

Make a few friends and it should be easy for you to find groups for these zones if you just want to clear them and never touch them again because the difficulty turns you off.

Honestly, I don’t need to be told this. This thread is feedback personal to myself and my wife, PERSONAL. I understand the concept of fun being subjective.

This thread is feedback for Anet to consider, detailing the reasons why MY WIFE AND I didn’t find Orr fun.

I don’t need snarky comments like ‘You are not required to complete the map’.

You are mistaking this thread as a whiny rant ‘Orr is too hard for me wah wah.’ In fact, this is a feedback thread that my wife and I have discussed and I have taken the time to write, with detailed points on each part of Orr I happened to disagree with.

Honestly, I’ve tried to write my feedback concisely and I’d appreciate responses that actually provoke discussion, not telling me something I’ve already acknowledged in the OP.

Don’t just say ‘Fun is subjective. I find Orr fun’. If any of my points are contradictory to your own beliefs, write and explain why, don’t disrespect me with the same kitten, contrived rubbish you are saying to every whiny thread.

I want to know WHY you find being CC’s constantly fun. I want to know WHY you find not having the time to soak in and enjoy the location because you are running for your life, fun. I want to know WHY you find not having enough people to do events that aren’t possible to do solo like previous zones, fun.

Finally I’d like to add, again, that I am aware of the lore behind Orr, but find the lore restrictive and detrimental to the gameplay in its execution.

Orr is “fun” the first time you see it / experience it. It is technically well done, just not FUN to experience again and again – which is a bad thing, because it makes up 75% of the high level zones.

Cutting down the mob density by 1/3, adding FAST DR to CC spells (and/or outright removing some spells) cast by mobs, and making the rewards for events/killing champions actually worth your time would make Orr immensely more enjoyable.

The mob density and respawn rate in Orr is an issue in my book.

OP: Calm Down. You have a negative perspective. Remember that text does not have verbal queues. I was not intending to be snarky. You need to look through the lens of (most people on the internet are decent people) instead of (everyone is a kitten who just wants to criticize me.)

I was not intending to be “snarky,” so relax.

Now. I want to clear up a misconception that you have: We are not so different.

I do not, as you say: "mistak(e) this thread as a whiny rant " Illustrating my point above, you believe that I am attacking you. I am not. Also, it is good English and argumentative practice to not make assumed statements. Your entire post is made on the basis that I believe that you are whining. I do not. I am not some elitist kitten. I am sorry if my post came across as such.

You continue to say (that I believe you are saying:
“Orr is too hard for me wah wah.’ “don’t disrespect me with the same kitten, contrived rubbish you are saying to every whiny thread.”

I do not post on whiny threads; I ignore them. Therefore, here you are assuming that I am an elitist kitten who trolls the forums looking for ‘bad casuals’ to troll. I prefer to spend my time playing the game. You mention your wife. I play GW2 with my serious girlfriend of over four years, my brother, and some other personal real-life friends. I am not in this game for extreme competition or elitism.

Now that your miscalculation of my personality from a wall of text has been corrected and explained, I would like to do two things:

1. Ask that we maybe play together sometime, so that you may get to know me better.

2. I will answer the questions posed in your post:

a)“I want to know WHY you find being CC’s constantly fun.”

-I find being CC’ed (I am assuming you mean crowed controlled or crowed with mobs, either way my answer is the same) fun because it is challenging, as a console gamer my entire life from age 6+ I find challenge fun. I played console games until I started WoW about 5 years ago. I enjoy challenge. That is why I find CC’s fun.

b)"I want to know WHY you find not having the time to soak in and enjoy the location because you are running for your life, fun. "

I find running for my life, or fighting to the death, fun because I can’t do it in my real life. (Well, I mean technically I could if I wanted to be a societal outcast.) It goes along with challenge. I love running to stay alive because it is a challenge. I love killing hordes of enemies and screaming expletive-expletive-expletive in my head as I struggle to test my reflexes in a game of survival. After the enemies are dead, I stop and take a look around, and take in the epic scope of the landscape. There is plenty of time to enjoy the world once you clear yourself some breathing room.

c) “I want to know WHY you find not having enough people to do events that aren’t possible to do solo like previous zones, fun.”

Because it fits the “living world” of a game that I am looking for in an MMO, it is realistic. You can’t move a 2 ton boulder in real life without help. You have to go seek out help. I believe that from a design perspective, the need for multiple people actually improves the closeness of the community. I like knowing “if I go get some friends or more people we can definitely do this.” This once again relates to the overarching theme of my answers which is: these things are fun because I enjoy challenge.

But let me reiterate. I am not an elitist kitten. I did not believe your post to be whiny. I am not trying to be condescending, but next time you make a post keep in mind that tone of voice and body language are not found in written communication, and that most forum posters are not published authors who use diction and rhetoric to intentionally be a kitten.

That being said. Hoping we can guest with each other at some point. When this feature is released.

Final Note: I think Orr on the whole is fine as it is.