Guild Wars 2

Hi,

Will we be able to buy the Tonics in gemstore?

I REALLY love the Rider’s outfit, but I never got a chance to buy it…

I have a few unanswered questions:

1. If we have a legendary weapon, will we be able to apply that skin to other weapons of that type on other characters with the new wardrobe system?

2. If we no longer have a piece of armor from a particular set on any character but have used it in the past (i.e. fervid censer, ascended weapons/armor we skinned over, etc.), will they be included in our unlocked skins in our wardrobe?

So let me get this straight…

The glasses I bought to give my town clothes a head item will turn into a helmet I’ll never use due to having so many event helmet skins, but have no use as town clothes…

The riding gloves I bought separately to add gloves will likely also get converted, but will never get used due to having Fused Gauntlets, Radiant, and hundreds of better armors, but have no use as town clothes…

Normally, I’d say “meh” and move on. But this has made me effectively lose money. I purchased these items because of their existing and continued functionality, but that’s being taken away? So what happens to my money? ANet just pockets it and laughs at the “early adopters”?

Finally, tonics? So now my town clothes will take up MORE inventory space and force me to use pre-constructed, pre-colored sets?

Add this next to boss scheduling on the list of mistakes this patch.

Instead of this incredibly lazy route, why couldn’t town clothes have been split into a dedicated wardrobe?

Azure Fang.8605:

Instead of this incredibly lazy route, why couldn’t town clothes have been split into a dedicated wardrobe?

The thing is, I’m not sure this IS the lazy route. Doing things this way means they have to make three versions (light, medium, heavy) of every set of town clothes headgear they’re converting to armor skins. Then, they have to do the work of remaking the outfit sets (cook, pirate, ect) into the new Costumes. Then, they had to add in code to make the Costume slot, make it respect if you have helm selected to show or not, and remove the town clothes screen and functions. Finally, they then had to take the remaining town clothes and turn them into transformation tonics that work differently than ANY other existing tonics in the game.

Or, they could have left it alone. If it really needed to work in combat, then they could have changed what was already there to overlay armor, and not mess with stats and weapons (which is just PART of what they’re doing anyway).

It honestly looks like they’re doing more work to shaft us on this, not less. It’s very disheartening.

Palador.2170:

It honestly looks like they’re doing more work to shaft us on this, not less. It’s very disheartening.

It’s really not so much more or less work NOW, as much as what allows them to produce more that can be sold LATER.

Right now, they kinda have to at least try to keep thought to how each individual piece meshes with everything else. When they make a new [x], at least in the back of their mind, they have to try and keep it so that it can match with everything else available.

Not only is this an exercise in futility, it takes up a lot of time.

With their new plan coming up… the only thing they have to concern themselves with is if the outfit matches itself. They don’t have to test and examine how one piece looks with another piece from a different outfit.

Less time spent on each individual outfit means they can make more outfits which (in theory, at least) means a better return on their investment of resources. Will it actually turn out that way? Dunno… it really depends on how many people they kittened off and how many people will embrace the change.

The problem for the mix-n-matchers is that the only way this isn’t a win for Arena.net is if the dissatisfied represent a much larger revenue bloc than those who like what the new system will be (because due to the lower cost and increased production, if the two blocs are anywhere near even it still means more profit to A.net at the end of the day).

They’ve made a calculated business decision. But a logical business decision doesn’t always turn out to be the right one.

Titan Cronus.9216:

Nage.1520:

Titan Cronus.9216:

Nage.1520:

To me, if I want to wear a baseball cap into battle, I should have the option to do so. That the clothes disappear when I fight, that’s far too annoying for me. I can have a look here, but if I step four steps away I lose the look?

It’s nothing to do with taking four steps this way or that, it simply if you enter combat or take damage.
If you want to wear a baseball cap to work, that’s fine but depending on you job, you are going to get a fired, injured or even killed (because you should have been wearing a helmet instead of your favourit baseball hat). How hard a concept is it to grasp, not all clothes are appropriate for wearing to work, or in this game, in combat. If ppl don’t understand that, then they’re being stubborn and if they do but still want to wear them in combat, then they’re being unreasonable. About as unreasonable as me demading Tequatl as a Ranger Pet!

It’s not a real hard concept to grasp. I’m sure my female elementalist in her skimpy bikini silk armor is far more protected than any baseball cap an ever be.

In a game with cloth “armor”, why even try to argue realism?

Aye, I get what your saying. : )

Some of the armour for the spell caster professions seem woefully lacking but there are several things that are generally assumed in games of this type (games based on D&D games). The spell casters are generally back line fighters in parties and the idea is that because they are the least likely party members to be involved in melee combat, heavier armour is less important. Their form of attacking is casting spells and that often requires them to perform fast elaborate gestures with their arms and so light armour is very practical. Also, almost all D&D above avarage armour is magically imbued with protective qualities and its taken that it is the same with games like this.

The thing is, GW2 made the distinction between “armour” and “clothes” way back at day one. Actually, one of its selling points before release was its unique town clothes feature. I remember reading all about monthes (maybe even years) before we even got to play the beta. Now they plan on removing them, or merging them. Either way, we will not have what we payed for.

The problem is, no matter what traditionally exists in the genre this game has made some changes. Rangers use melee weapons. I have a double dagger elementalist. My mesmer’s best weapon is a sword. Necros with daggers are pretty powerful right now. That’s all melee range.

So my skimpy armor is protecting me in melee range in this game.

I’m just guessing that the amount of people who would’t touch town clothes because they could only be used in towns is greater than the number of people who mix and match….possibly much greater.

And you know, I sympathize with people who bought stuff and can’t use it as it was purchased. That’s rough.

But that doesn’t mean that it was useful to me.

Nage.1520:

The problem is, no matter what traditionally exists in the genre this game has made some changes. Rangers use melee weapons. I have a double dagger elementalist. My mesmer’s best weapon is a sword. Necros with daggers are pretty powerful right now. That’s all melee range.

So my skimpy armor is protecting me in melee range in this game.

I’m just guessing that the amount of people who would’t touch town clothes because they could only be used in towns is greater than the number of people who mix and match….possibly much greater.

And you know, I sympathize with people who bought stuff and can’t use it as it was purchased. That’s rough.

But that doesn’t mean that it was useful to me.

Picture buying a couple armor skins off of the Trading Post. You really only want the gloves and boots off of one set, which look incredible! And the shirt and helmet look great with it from the other set. Awesome, unique look! Your character really stands out in the crowd, and you didn’t have to forge a Legendary weapon or buy a Commander’s blue taco to do it!

Now GW says that they are changing things. You can only wear the armors you purchased as complete sets, with four whole dye channels for the entire set! No more unique look from combining separate pieces.

Now further imagine that a favorite piece of armor is going to become a TONIC instead. Not only is it becoming one single unchangeable piece, but it is also undyable! (And you need to reapply it every time you zone).

They’re offering gem refunds for your tonic, but you will have to petition them on a case-by-case basis to get refunds on your skins. (That will take forever with all the requests they’re going to get).

Whether you bought your gems with real money, or with hard earned in-game gold, you’re probably feeling pretty cheated. Will you buy from the TP again knowing that they could alter your purchase at any time after the fact into something you don’t desire? But never fear… they say they are going to offer many more one-size-fits-all armors real soon!

Join the Paper Doll guild along with the rest of us look-alikes.

Titan Cronus.9216:

The thing is, GW2 made the distinction between “armour” and “clothes” way back at day one. Actually, one of its selling points before release was its unique town clothes feature. I remember reading all about monthes (maybe even years) before we even got to play the beta. Now they plan on removing them, or merging them. Either way, we will not have what we payed for.

The biggest problem with this train of thought, is that the distinction is only made when it comes to the player characters. A considerable chunk of the NPCs, not linked to a specific unit (Seraph, Lionsguard, Priory, etc.), fight and adventure in their everyday clothing. Just look at the Lodge Master and his assistant in Queensdale, Countess Anise, Queen Jennah, etc.

My Warrior is a Norn and she doesn’t feel the need to wear a massive set of Armor that covers every last inch of her body. She’s too awesome to need that extra protection. Heck, the town clothing is far closer to something a Norn would wear into battle, than almost every heavy armor in the game. Just go look at their cultural armors, to see how little protection they really offer.

just wanted to add my combo/costume that i wont be able to have after the update.

Witchs Hat (male) – [&AgEajgAA]
Mad Kings Coat – [&AgELjgAA]
Mad Kings Gloves – [&AgEMjgAA]
Witchs Boots – [&AgEXjgAA]

i will be sad

Paradox.8563:

just wanted to add my combo/costume that i wont be able to have after the update.

Witchs Hat (male) – [&AgEajgAA]
Mad Kings Coat – [&AgELjgAA]
Mad Kings Gloves – [&AgEMjgAA]
Witchs Boots – [&AgEXjgAA]

i will be sad

Yep, I love the phantom Mask with my witch costume in white on my Asura. I spend a lot of time in costume brawl using the mad king throrn scepter in that costume set up and its a blast. Its by far the coolest looking outfit imo and is better than 99% of most of the armors. I’m very disappointed that I can’t mix and match that set anymore. It would be great if I could and play in that set after the patch.

videoboy.4162:

The biggest problem with this train of thought, is that the distinction is only made when it comes to the player characters. A considerable chunk of the NPCs, not linked to a specific unit (Seraph, Lionsguard, Priory, etc.), fight and adventure in their everyday clothing. Just look at the Lodge Master and his assistant in Queensdale, Countess Anise, Queen Jennah, etc.

And if we continue with that train of thought, we shouldn’t be entitled to more than one outfit per person, since NPCs ONLY wear one outfit during all the story. NPCs are NPCs and they ony have one set of clothes (either armor or town clothes) because they’re not supposed to wear anything else.

Twyll Blackleaf.9641:

The Feature Pack Q&A livestream just finished up. Apparently it was meant to answer people’s questions who don’t go on the forums, so anyone on the forums wouldn’t have necessarily gleaned any new information from it. Also, they weren’t answering questions from chat, just questions they’d pre-selected… from the forums? (ANet logic, everyone.) The most significant thing is:

They’ll be giving refunds for Outfitized Town Clothes “on a case-by-case basis” if you send in a ticket.

In other words… rather than fix the problem itself, they’re going to go over every single ticket one by one. That’s either going to cost them a lot of money paying extra customer support people or paying their existing customer support folks overtime, or it’s going to make getting any ticket reviewed very slow as they suddenly have all those tickets to deal with. And yet they still see this as a better alternative to putting in the time to make seams for having separate pieces of Outfit.

I did, however, manage to get Danicia to confirm, “We have been pulling together concerns along with general questions.” So however many grains of salt you take that with, I’m pretty sure that’s the first actual act of a Dev saying that they understand we have concerns that need addressing, not just questions that need answering, since this whole mess began. I am very grateful to have gotten that answer at all, but still feel like I shouldn’t be in a position where I have to ask specifically for confirmation that they realize we’ve got problems and not just questions.

Thanks for being there for those of us who couldn’t make it, Twyll!!! In my experience in the forums, Danicia seems to be the only one who really gets in the posters’ shoes, most of the times. But I guess she couldn’t do much if no extra information was scheduled to be released, or if, as it seems, they don’t give a kitten about our concerns.

A part of me wishes everybody will ask for refunds so ANET regrets their decission. But another part of me is definitely going to keep those useless tonics and those half-useless outfits in case they decide to implement them as something better. So I don’t really know what to wish.

I’m just so sad about all this….

Hamfast.8719:

Nage.1520:

The problem is, no matter what traditionally exists in the genre this game has made some changes. Rangers use melee weapons. I have a double dagger elementalist. My mesmer’s best weapon is a sword. Necros with daggers are pretty powerful right now. That’s all melee range.

So my skimpy armor is protecting me in melee range in this game.

I’m just guessing that the amount of people who would’t touch town clothes because they could only be used in towns is greater than the number of people who mix and match….possibly much greater.

And you know, I sympathize with people who bought stuff and can’t use it as it was purchased. That’s rough.

But that doesn’t mean that it was useful to me.

Picture buying a couple armor skins off of the Trading Post. You really only want the gloves and boots off of one set, which look incredible! And the shirt and helmet look great with it from the other set. Awesome, unique look! Your character really stands out in the crowd, and you didn’t have to forge a Legendary weapon or buy a Commander’s blue taco to do it!

Now GW says that they are changing things. You can only wear the armors you purchased as complete sets, with four whole dye channels for the entire set! No more unique look from combining separate pieces.

Now further imagine that a favorite piece of armor is going to become a TONIC instead. Not only is it becoming one single unchangeable piece, but it is also undyable! (And you need to reapply it every time you zone).

They’re offering gem refunds for your tonic, but you will have to petition them on a case-by-case basis to get refunds on your skins. (That will take forever with all the requests they’re going to get).

Whether you bought your gems with real money, or with hard earned in-game gold, you’re probably feeling pretty cheated. Will you buy from the TP again knowing that they could alter your purchase at any time after the fact into something you don’t desire? But never fear… they say they are going to offer many more one-size-fits-all armors real soon!

Join the Paper Doll guild along with the rest of us look-alikes.

I’m quite happy with the way my character looks and I don’t really care whether or not I’m a special snowflake in an MMO, because NO ONE is a special snowflake in an MMO.

Yes, I get the problem. It’s not like your point of view is hard to understand. But my point of view is not hard to understand either. I don’t spend 90% of my time in cities, hanging out. I spent 90% of my time in dungeons, in WvW, in the open world, at boss events.

So I can’t wear my town clothes 90% of the time. My look IS my armor not my towns clothes.

You talk as if I don’t get what you’re saying. I do. But if I had town clothes gloves and boots I loved and pants from another set and dyed them all nice, and then had to stand in Divinties Reach to see it….it would be a complete and total waste of money to me.

Town clothes should have never been in the game in the first place. It should have all been armor pieces and you should have been able to buy them piecemeal.

Anet made a major mistake putting town clothes in the game as they did. It wasn’t compatible with the armor.

Moving forward Anet will be able to create MORE town clothes that fit with the armors so you can mix and match your town clothes for real and where them where and whenever you want.

It sucks that they got it wrong. It’s bad for them and it’s bad for people who like town clothes as they are.

But the new system for the long term health of the game will be superior…even for people who like town clothes.

Nage.1520:

Yes, I get the problem. It’s not like your point of view is hard to understand. But my point of view is not hard to understand either. I don’t spend 90% of my time in cities, hanging out. I spent 90% of my time in dungeons, in WvW, in the open world, at boss events.

It must be hard to understand, when you reply as if we were against town clothes being usable in combat. Personally I don’t care much about that. The problem, and I think Hamfast’s problem too, is that A BIG BUNCH OF THOSE CLOTHES aren’t going to be usable in combat neither as real clothes, which are the ones which will be turned into tonics. We’re ALL of us losing them: that part of the players who wanted to use town clothes in combat, and that part of us who liked variety and liked them as town clothes. We paid for those clothes, and they’re going to be taken away from us. I don’t care if I can get a refund. I don’t want a refund. I want my clothes.

It is as if to make happy all those people who wanted a mount, they finally implemented mounts in game, but in exchange they took away all the waypoints.

Taking something from a part of the players, to give a different one to another part, when they could have made everybody happy just keeping the old one and adding a new one.

Sonia.7910:

videoboy.4162:

The biggest problem with this train of thought, is that the distinction is only made when it comes to the player characters. A considerable chunk of the NPCs, not linked to a specific unit (Seraph, Lionsguard, Priory, etc.), fight and adventure in their everyday clothing. Just look at the Lodge Master and his assistant in Queensdale, Countess Anise, Queen Jennah, etc.

And if we continue with that train of thought, we shouldn’t be entitled to more than one outfit per person, since NPCs ONLY wear one outfit during all the story. NPCs are NPCs and they ony have one set of clothes (either armor or town clothes) because they’re not supposed to wear anything else.

That’s a horribly weak reply, Sonia. I specifically gave examples of NPCs that actually fight in normal clothing and even use a whole race of fighters to establish a precedent and your response is “they never change clothes.” Really? Could you at least find a straw man a little closer to the actual topic? Even the NPCs in armor don’t change armor.

Those NPCs were clearly designed to participate in actual fighting/adventuring and were placed in Town Clothes, rather than Armor. So, it’s obviously not that unusual in the Lore of the game to fight without armor.

The point is, it’s not fair to try and tell other players that it isn’t “right” for them to fight in everyday clothing, rather than armor just because it doesn’t fit into your (I use that term in the general sense) idea of role play. Other people like to role play in the opposite way and pretend that their character is such a awesome fighter, that they don’t need to wear suits of armor to do so. They have just as much right to be able to play that way, as you do yours.

Oh look! 4 tonics and 1 headgear!

Please ANet, reconsider.

:(

The tonics idea is just stupid. Better to turn outfits into boxes of armor.

videoboy.4162:

That’s a horribly weak reply, Sonia. I specifically gave examples of NPCs that actually fight in normal clothing and even use a whole race of fighters to establish a precedent and your response is “they never change clothes.” Really? Could you at least find a straw man a little closer to the actual topic? Even the NPCs in armor don’t change armor.

Those NPCs were clearly designed to participate in actual fighting/adventuring and were placed in Town Clothes, rather than Armor. So, it’s obviously not that unusual in the Lore of the game to fight without armor.

The point is, it’s not fair to try and tell other players that it isn’t “right” for them to fight in everyday clothing, rather than armor just because it doesn’t fit into your (I use that term in the general sense) idea of role play. Other people like to role play in the opposite way and pretend that their character is such a awesome fighter, that they don’t need to wear suits of armor to do so. They have just as much right to be able to play that way, as you do yours.

Sonia said she didn’t care much whether we could use Town Clothes in combat. She didn’t say that you shouldn’t be allowed to. I am happy you are getting something you want, and we are not against that. It can be a good thing for us too. What we are disgusted by is the fact that it is at OUR expense, both figuratively AND literally. We paid for something that is being taken away from us in order for your desire to be implemented. And that’s just wrong.

P.S. – It’s hard to say whether those NPCs are wearing “Town Clothing” or “armor”, since those looks have not entered the game as anything but “NPC gear”. It may look like Town Clothing to you, but some of those could very easily be considered armors as well. So that whole argument is a dead end.

Hamfast.8719:

videoboy.4162:

That’s a horribly weak reply, Sonia. I specifically gave examples of NPCs that actually fight in normal clothing and even use a whole race of fighters to establish a precedent and your response is “they never change clothes.” Really? Could you at least find a straw man a little closer to the actual topic? Even the NPCs in armor don’t change armor.

Those NPCs were clearly designed to participate in actual fighting/adventuring and were placed in Town Clothes, rather than Armor. So, it’s obviously not that unusual in the Lore of the game to fight without armor.

The point is, it’s not fair to try and tell other players that it isn’t “right” for them to fight in everyday clothing, rather than armor just because it doesn’t fit into your (I use that term in the general sense) idea of role play. Other people like to role play in the opposite way and pretend that their character is such a awesome fighter, that they don’t need to wear suits of armor to do so. They have just as much right to be able to play that way, as you do yours.

Sonia said she didn’t care much whether we could use Town Clothes in combat. She didn’t say that you shouldn’t be allowed to. I am happy you are getting something you want, and we are not against that. It can be a good thing for us too. What we are disgusted by is the fact that it is at OUR expense, both figuratively AND literally. We paid for something that is being taken away from us in order for your desire to be implemented. And that’s just wrong.

P.S. – It’s hard to say whether those NPCs are wearing “Town Clothing” or “armor”, since those looks have not entered the game as anything but “NPC gear”. It may look like Town Clothing to you, but some of those could very easily be considered armors as well. So that whole argument is a dead end.

There are so many things wrong with your reply, that I don’t even know where to begin.

I didn’t claim Sonia said any of the things you say that I did. I replied to Sonia, because she replied to a post I made in regards to another poster’s claims.

You are also only partially losing functionality of some pieces of Town Clothing, not 100% of them, so precious little is at “your expense.” There have been less than 10 items that have been revealed to be changing into a Tonic or Outfit. We’ve also been told that people will be surprised by just how many pieces are actually being converted into armor pieces.

As for your P.S., no, that isn’t a dead end argument. As it currently stands, all the NPCs I mentioned are wearing items that are currently considered to be Town Clothing. The sole exception to that, might be Anise. Therefore, my argument is completely valid.

Even if they decide to take all of that unavailable clothing, and add it in for players to use at a later date, it won’t change the validity of my argument. By then, Town Clothes will have effectively ceased to exist, because everything will be combat ready and everything will essentially count as armor. However, the distinction still currently exists.

Videoboy, I think you’ve missed something. ‘Less than 10 items’ being changed to a tonic or outfit? I’d like to know where you read otherwise to this. As far as I knew, every item of town clothing is turning into a tonic or outfit. And that is the entire problem. You can no longer mix and match, and some you can’t even dye. This means anyone who has purchased more than one town clothing set for the purpose of having a customised mix and match look has wasted gems/money. That is at their expense.

Are you just trolling people in this thread?

videoboy.4162:

As it currently stands, all the NPCs I mentioned are wearing items that are currently considered to be Town Clothing. The sole exception to that, might be Anise. Therefore, my argument is completely valid.

“The Lodge Master and his assistant in Queensdale, Countess Anise, Queen Jennah, etc.”

The last time I looked, NONE of these characters you mention wear anything available to the players. So where do you see any labels that call them Town Clothes? To me, the Lodgemaster certainly looks like he might have on another medium armor trenchcoat. His assistant and Countess Anise look to me like they are wearing something very much like GW1 Mesmer armor. To me, Queen Jennah’s outfit could easily be light armor as well. (It reminds me of my GW1 Vabbian armor a bit).

But that’s only my opinion. YOURS is just an opinion too. ANet has never called those NPC outfits anything at all. Not Town Clothes, not armor, not baby diapers. So please tell me WHO says those NPCs “are wearing items that are currently considered to be Town Clothing”?

Feel free to take the last word on this matter, because I’m done. Unless you can show me more than “It sure looks like Town Clothes to me!”, then there’s point in arguing over a question that has no correct answer.

We are not against Town Clothes becoming armor. That is not our point here. You’re getting what you want. The Town Clothes-loving crowd are the ones who are losing out here. Why are you so aggressive? You should be happy as a clam.

Jaric.5679:

Videoboy, I think you’ve missed something. ‘Less than 10 items’ being changed to a tonic or outfit? I’d like to know where you read otherwise to this. As far as I knew, every item of town clothing is turning into a tonic or outfit. And that is the entire problem. You can no longer mix and match, and some you can’t even dye. This means anyone who has purchased more than one town clothing set for the purpose of having a customised mix and match look has wasted gems/money. That is at their expense.

Are you just trolling people in this thread?

I said we only knew of less than 10 that have been specifically stated will change into tonics or outfits, not that there were less than 10. It has also been stated by the devs that many of the town clothes are being converted into Armor Pieces that can be mixed and matched. Which is why I implied that the reactions to these changes are being over exaggerated.

Seeing as to how you replied to me without actually reading my post (judging by your errors) are you trolling?

’ It has also been stated by the devs that many of the town clothes are being converted into Armor Pieces that can be mixed and matched.’

Source, please. Seriously. Tell me what thread and what page it’s on.

The only example given thus far for a town clothes item being turned into an armor slot item is in the case of head-slot items.

If I have been following everything correctly this is what we know for sure:

Individual (or sold by themselves) town clothing head pieces will be turned into helm armor skins (bunny ears, sunglasses, etc)

Individual other town clothes items that are not head pieces will be turned into undyable, unstackable tonics with the remaining slots filled in with modesty clothing (khaki cargo pants, cherry blossom shirt, etc)

Clothing items that came in a costume set will be turned into a single slot outfit and reduced to only 4 colors – compared to its previous up to 4 colors per individual item – this will include its head piece (so Mad King Thorn with pumpkin head or no Mad King thorn at all)

Refunds to outfits will be considered on a case-by-case basis.
Individual items made into tonics can be refunded.
Gems will be what you will get back.

I would just like to add my voice to the disappointment with the upcoming town clothes changes. I have the basic town clothes shirt and the khaki cargo shorts together, both dyed white and I love, love, love the outfit. After the changes, I won’t be able to wear these together, dyed as they are.
I also love to wear the pirate’s outfit, but with glasses, and not the silly hat. If I’m understanding correctly, I will have to either wear the outfit with the hat (which I won’t), or not at all.
I am very saddened by the impending changes, and I hope Anet will reconsider. This is a big part of the game for me and I just feel sick over the change.

That’s precisely what I thought, Gene and Risa. This is not ‘many of the town clothes’, as videoboy is stating.

A five year wait, for a game that screwed up simple town clothes.
Remember: " When it’s done it will be done. We want to get it right."

*sigh

At least approve TXTMOD like in GW1 so we can make our own.

Sonia.7910:

Nage.1520:

Yes, I get the problem. It’s not like your point of view is hard to understand. But my point of view is not hard to understand either. I don’t spend 90% of my time in cities, hanging out. I spent 90% of my time in dungeons, in WvW, in the open world, at boss events.

It must be hard to understand, when you reply as if we were against town clothes being usable in combat. Personally I don’t care much about that. The problem, and I think Hamfast’s problem too, is that A BIG BUNCH OF THOSE CLOTHES aren’t going to be usable in combat neither as real clothes, which are the ones which will be turned into tonics. We’re ALL of us losing them: that part of the players who wanted to use town clothes in combat, and that part of us who liked variety and liked them as town clothes. We paid for those clothes, and they’re going to be taken away from us. I don’t care if I can get a refund. I don’t want a refund. I want my clothes.

It is as if to make happy all those people who wanted a mount, they finally implemented mounts in game, but in exchange they took away all the waypoints.

Taking something from a part of the players, to give a different one to another part, when they could have made everybody happy just keeping the old one and adding a new one.

You’ve missed my point.

Town clothes don’t work with armor and wasn’t designed to be used in combat. People want to use it in combat. That means, as things are now, it HAS TO BE made as armor skins. That’s the only logical development cycle. Nothing else really works.

They’re implementing the new system to make the future of “town clothes” better. Unfortunately they screwed up initially, but the price of screwing up shouldn’t be leaving a bad system in. A system the requires separate development JUST for that system isn’t going to be sustainable moving forwards.

Nage.1520:

Town clothes don’t work with armor and wasn’t designed to be used in combat.

No. I just want the town clothes like they were before. Mix an match with each other (not armor). With the ability to be dyed with the same range of color options.

NOT Tonics

Angelica Dream.7103:

Nage.1520:

Town clothes don’t work with armor and wasn’t designed to be used in combat.

No. I just want the town clothes like they were before. Mix an match with each other (not armor). With the ability to be dyed with the same range of color options.

NOT Tonics

I GET that. It’s not that I don’t understand.

But you’re talking the short view.

Okay what if I told you you could have all the town clothes usable as before but youd NEVER get new town clothes ever. That would be it. For ever and ever, that’s it. No new town clothes.

They’re making a new system because the old one isnt’ sustainable. It’s not practical to keep two systems. They’ll introduce more stuff like town clothes, but stuff you can wear all the time.

Keeping the old system in isn’t practical no matter what people say.

Anet isnt’ making a decision for the past. They’re making a decision for the future.

Nage.1520:

Angelica Dream.7103:

Nage.1520:

Town clothes don’t work with armor and wasn’t designed to be used in combat.

No. I just want the town clothes like they were before. Mix an match with each other (not armor). With the ability to be dyed with the same range of color options.

NOT Tonics

I GET that. It’s not that I don’t understand.

But you’re talking the short view.

Okay what if I told you you could have all the town clothes usable as before but youd NEVER get new town clothes ever. That would be it. For ever and ever, that’s it. No new town clothes.

They’re making a new system because the old one isnt’ sustainable. It’s not practical to keep two systems. They’ll introduce more stuff like town clothes, but stuff you can wear all the time.

Keeping the old system in isn’t practical no matter what people say.

Anet isnt’ making a decision for the past. They’re making a decision for the future.

If you logic is correct, then why do they not skip the tonics and replace the old town clothes with new ones that work?
Perhaps the new system is not better, but just a patch.

Angelica Dream.7103:

Nage.1520:

Town clothes don’t work with armor and wasn’t designed to be used in combat.

No. I just want the town clothes like they were before. Mix an match with each other (not armor). With the ability to be dyed with the same range of color options.

NOT Tonics

I agree. IMHO, we’re loosing a lot of what I love about this game with the new system. We’re loosing our fashion creativity.

Angelica Dream.7103:

Nage.1520:

Angelica Dream.7103:

Nage.1520:

Town clothes don’t work with armor and wasn’t designed to be used in combat.

No. I just want the town clothes like they were before. Mix an match with each other (not armor). With the ability to be dyed with the same range of color options.

NOT Tonics

I GET that. It’s not that I don’t understand.

But you’re talking the short view.

Okay what if I told you you could have all the town clothes usable as before but youd NEVER get new town clothes ever. That would be it. For ever and ever, that’s it. No new town clothes.

They’re making a new system because the old one isnt’ sustainable. It’s not practical to keep two systems. They’ll introduce more stuff like town clothes, but stuff you can wear all the time.

Keeping the old system in isn’t practical no matter what people say.

Anet isnt’ making a decision for the past. They’re making a decision for the future.

If you logic is correct, then why do they not skip the tonics and replace the old town clothes with new ones that work?
Perhaps the new system is not better, but just a patch.

Because of the way they’re designed. They’d have to build each of them again…for five races. They know how many of each they’ve sold. And how they’re designed might not mesh. This is a lot more involved than just drawing a new picture of a glove.

It has to do with the 3D models. Anet screwed up completely by making town clothes a fourth armor type in the first place. It was a bad decision. Redoing those town clothes take specific skills, A programmer can’t do it. It has to be a modeler.

We don’t honestly know what the modelers are currently working on, but it’s a good bet that the time it would take to redo them all would be prohibitive and set other important things back, possibly by weeks or months.

No business makes a decision like this lightly or easily. They make decisions based on what’s best for the over all game.

Everyone seems to think Anet just got together and randomly decided they would do this. No, they analyzed the amount of work, saved the towns clothes they could save, the ones they could do without having to completely redo the mesh, and then they made the other ones into tonics and offered refunds on them.

It’s NOT ideal. It might suck for people who like what they have now. But it will still be better for those same people moving forward.

They did it the way they did it, because it’s the most expedient way to do it…not to kitten off people who like town clothes.

Willowfalls.9814:

Angelica Dream.7103:

Nage.1520:

Town clothes don’t work with armor and wasn’t designed to be used in combat.

No. I just want the town clothes like they were before. Mix an match with each other (not armor). With the ability to be dyed with the same range of color options.

NOT Tonics

I agree. IMHO, we’re loosing a lot of what I love about this game with the new system. We’re loosing our fashion creativity.

And what if they create tons more town clothes over time that can be dyed and just go in armor slots. What if this, over time, works out so that you have MORE options, instead of the few you have now (that they’re never going to add to?).

That’s the question here. It’s not what happens now. It’s what happens in the future too that matters.

@Nage
I have 3d modeled for a very large company so I have a grasp on the situation, and the lack of planning.

That said if they can not remodel the town clothes we already own, I do not have faith in your statement:
“They’re implementing the new system to make the future of “town clothes” better. "

As someone who basically never bothered with town clothes, I nevertheless support the position of the people here who do. It’s not nice to have your creative designs, some of which probably required many gem purchases and expensive dyes, to be suddenly taken away. Being charged a transmutation charge to frequently swap town clothes and your armor will really hit the pockets of many roleplayers too.

I understand that it’s too late now for ANet to really overhaul the system as it stands, but I would love it if we received some acknowledgement that our concerns have been heard, and thought is being given to a possible restructure of the armor/town clothes system down the line.

Here’s the system I’d like to see:

1. The Wardrobe houses all appearance skins found everywhere in the game. (The planned way is perfect. No change needed.)

2. All town clothes skins are restructured so they are comprised of individual pieces the way they functioned prior to the Apr 15 patch. This includes all outfits and clothes that became tonics. (I appreciate that this would be a very time consuming task, and I am more than happy to give ANet months to complete this, as long as I knew it was coming.)

3. Players have one set of Armor slots, and one set of Town Clothes slots.

4. Players can freely change their town clothes set appearance from their unlocked town clothes section of their Wardrobe. This does not cost Transmutation Charges. (I believe this to be fair as all town clothes were either purchased for gems, or given out as part of in-game events or promotions.)

5. The Town Clothes set cannot be worn into combat, BUT players do have the option of using transmutation charges to apply the look of individual town clothes pieces to the corresponding armor piece, so they can “wear town clothes into combat”, if they so choose. (This allows players who want to wear sunglasses and fuzzy hats into combat the freedom to do so.)

Angelica Dream.7103:

@Nage
I have 3d modeled for a very large company so I have a grasp on the situation, and the lack of planning.

That said if they can not remodel the town clothes we already own, I do not have faith in your statement:
“They’re implementing the new system to make the future of “town clothes” better. "

Okay let’s try this again. I never said they were implementing anything.

The problem arose because of the ORIGINAL implementation of town clothes, which was an unnecessary layer of creation….a 4th class of clothing. Three armor types and town clothes was a forth. That wasn’t sustainable in any sense of the word.

They’re removing a non-sustainable system, not creating a new one. However, the new town clothes will have to be created under the OLD system of the armor tiers, pretty much I’m guess in the way that they did the molten gloves. So you’ll be able to dye the new town clothes (because they’re armor) and mix and match ones.

By REMOVING an unnecessary (and unnecessarily limiting) fourth class of clothing, they’re solving the problem.

plethomacademia.8265:

While I am thrilled with the bulk of the changes that come with the wardrobe, I will be requesting a refund for all of my town clothes that I can no long mix and match, as they will no longer be functioning as they were sold to me.

This is my thoughts also. How can you say you will only refund town clothing made into tonics, when outfits will no longer be mix and match, which is a change we did not agree to when we purchased the outfits.

Curse Drew.8679:

plethomacademia.8265:

While I am thrilled with the bulk of the changes that come with the wardrobe, I will be requesting a refund for all of my town clothes that I can no long mix and match, as they will no longer be functioning as they were sold to me.

This is my thoughts also. How can you say you will only refund town clothing made into tonics, when outfits will no longer be mix and match, which is a change we did not agree to when we purchased the outfits.

+1 100% agree

After all we bought this stuff to mix and match. Not as stand alone pieces

Jaric.5679:

That’s precisely what I thought, Gene and Risa. This is not ‘many of the town clothes’, as videoboy is stating.

I only repeated what Curtis said. You’re more than welcome to actually read this thread and see his posts.

I really shouldn’t have bothered looking this up for you:

https://help.guildwars2.com/entries/45944258-Town-Clothes

2.Most pieces sold separately, such as the Fuzzy Animal Hats or Phantom Hood, will become armor skins for the appropriate slot, usable by a character that wears armor of any type.

It’s not just head pieces.

@ Videoboy
It is just not head pieces! It is mix and match towns clothes that most of us care about. Not even for armor.

Look I am in fashion and lot of the stuff here is not designed very well. So we like to mix and match to make a better look (some of the people here are quite creative). A lot of the towns clothes will be turned in to tonics so they can not be mixed and matched, which is our concern.

The fact that Anet will not convert the current towns clothes in to “separates” to wear, is not very reassuring about new “separate” towns clothes for outfits.

Angelica Dream.7103:

@ Videoboy
It is just not head pieces! It is mix and match towns clothes that most of us care about. Not even for armor.

Look I am in fashion and lot of the stuff here is not designed very well. So we like to mix and match to make a better look. A lot of the towns clothes will be turned in to tonics so they can not be mixed and matched, which is our concern.

The fact that Anet will not convert the current towns clothes in to “separates” to wear, is not very reassuring about new “separate” towns clothes for outfits.

Angelica, I didn’t say it was only head pieces, I said the exact opposite! Also, I understand that you’re upset that your Mix-and-Match selections will be more limited than before. I don’t blame you for that. My issues lies with people not fully reading the information and then exaggerating what is actually going to happen.

We know the fate of less than 10 items in this upcoming feature. That isn’t enough to fly off the deep end and act as if every single last item is being ruined for those that bought them. I feel like this thread would have gotten more hands on attention from Curtis and/or the other Devs, if more posts had offered constructive criticism and mature explanations about player dislike.

Anyway, I sincerely hope that, come Tuesday (or whatever day it is for the rest of the global players), the Town Clothes changes end up being far better than predicted and that those of you that are hard core role players aren’t messed over too horribly. I also hope that the Devs see how important the Mix-and-Match abilities are to so many of you and vow to find a way to improve the system.

videoboy.4162:

Also, I understand that you’re upset that your Mix-and-Match selections will be more limited than before. I don’t blame you for that. My issues lies with people not fully reading the information and then exaggerating what is actually going to happen.

We know the fate of less than 10 items in this upcoming feature. That isn’t enough to fly off the deep end and act as if every single last item is being ruined for those that bought them. I feel like this thread would have gotten more hands on attention from Curtis and/or the other Devs, if more posts had offered constructive criticism and mature explanations about player dislike.

Anyway, I sincerely hope that, come Tuesday (or whatever day it is for the rest of the global players), the Town Clothes changes end up being far better than predicted and that those of you that are hard core role players aren’t messed over too horribly. I also hope that the Devs see how important the Mix-and-Match abilities are to so many of you and vow to find a way to improve the system.

I also hope that this turns out better than predicted.

Have a great day videoboy!

videoboy.4162:

Jaric.5679:

That’s precisely what I thought, Gene and Risa. This is not ‘many of the town clothes’, as videoboy is stating.

I only repeated what Curtis said. You’re more than welcome to actually read this thread and see his posts.

I really shouldn’t have bothered looking this up for you:

https://help.guildwars2.com/entries/45944258-Town-Clothes

2.Most pieces sold separately, such as the Fuzzy Animal Hats or Phantom Hood, will become armor skins for the appropriate slot, usable by a character that wears armor of any type.

It’s not just head pieces.

The problem is that it was also stated that every single item that was discontinued will be turning into a tonic. Which is…basically every single item that isn’t head slot items, aside from the pirate and chef outfit, which are becoming single piece outfits.

Gene Archer.8560:

videoboy.4162:

Jaric.5679:

That’s precisely what I thought, Gene and Risa. This is not ‘many of the town clothes’, as videoboy is stating.

I only repeated what Curtis said. You’re more than welcome to actually read this thread and see his posts.

I really shouldn’t have bothered looking this up for you:

https://help.guildwars2.com/entries/45944258-Town-Clothes

2.Most pieces sold separately, such as the Fuzzy Animal Hats or Phantom Hood, will become armor skins for the appropriate slot, usable by a character that wears armor of any type.

It’s not just head pieces.

The problem is that it was also stated that every single item that was discontinued will be turning into a tonic. Which is…basically every single item that isn’t head slot items, aside from the pirate and chef outfit, which are becoming single piece outfits.

I agree. They said in the livestream that hats and gloves would become skins but body pieces would become tonics, unless they are part of an “outfit”. All the frilly shirts, vests, hoodies, riding pants, cargo shorts and such will be tonics. They have not stated whether you will be able to use more than one tonic at once, but current tonics do not allow us. They have also not explained why it is possible to display these clothing items as tonics but not as armor skins.

I bought a number of “outfits”, all described as consisting of multiple pieces. I have split them between toons, even discarded some pieces as ugly. Even when I have a costume made up of two or more pieces I tend to dye them in contrasting colors. A four-channel dye covering the entire outfit is unlikely to provide the flexibility that currently exists. I understand it will be difficult to issue refunds on these outfits as they will be immediately unlocked in our wardrobes on go-live of the patch, but it would be the right thing to do.

shogei.8015:

They have not stated whether you will be able to use more than one tonic at once, but current tonics do not allow us.

Curtis Johnson’s 2nd entry in this very thread you are now reading states:

“The endless tonic will grant the appearance of the clothing it replaced. (along with some appropriate complimentary pieces so you’re not naked). They are new tonics, not existing ones.

Only one tonic can be used at one time."

Nage.1520:

Angelica Dream.7103:

@Nage
I have 3d modeled for a very large company so I have a grasp on the situation, and the lack of planning.

That said if they can not remodel the town clothes we already own, I do not have faith in your statement:
“They’re implementing the new system to make the future of “town clothes” better. "

Okay let’s try this again. I never said they were implementing anything.

The problem arose because of the ORIGINAL implementation of town clothes, which was an unnecessary layer of creation….a 4th class of clothing. Three armor types and town clothes was a forth. That wasn’t sustainable in any sense of the word.

They’re removing a non-sustainable system, not creating a new one. However, the new town clothes will have to be created under the OLD system of the armor tiers, pretty much I’m guess in the way that they did the molten gloves. So you’ll be able to dye the new town clothes (because they’re armor) and mix and match ones.

By REMOVING an unnecessary (and unnecessarily limiting) fourth class of clothing, they’re solving the problem.

Remember that Outfit slot they’re giving us? The one that uses things like the chef’s outfit, or the Bloody Prince outfit? Yep, there’s your fourth class of armor, still. They’re not getting rid of it. It’s still going to be there, they’re just making all the stuff that goes into it now be one item that covers the entire body (plus or minus head, at your choice).

And the real fun? They already have armor (and town clothes) that covers more than just the slot it’s equipped into. If they want to stop making Town Clothes and start making one piece Outfits going forward, they could do that and STILL keep the current Town Clothes in place.

Nage.1520:

Snip

The problem arose because of the ORIGINAL implementation of town clothes, which was an unnecessary layer of creation….a 4th class of clothing. Three armor types and town clothes was a forth. That wasn’t sustainable in any sense of the word.

Snip

Im just going to quote something I said in an earlier post on this thread to save me a little time by not writing it out again. : )

Titan Cronus.9216:

Curtis Johnson.8456:

Clothing was meant to offer visual options that break the class roles, however we were never completely happy with the way it was isolated from the rest of the game and still felt largely the same.

But thats exactly what was perfect about it. Thats EXACTLY how it should be.

Look, if im a welder (which I am), I wear overalls and a mask to work. A fitness trainer might wear a tracksuit and trainers and a stock broker might wear a suit and tie.
But, when we all get home, we all wear the same casual clothes. Ok, I know thats not a perfect example because we all wear different casuals but you get my point, We all have work clothes specific to our profession (same as the armour class in game) but we all wear the same non-profession-specific clothes after work. You get what Im getting at.

The Town Clothes function was (or is as it stands at the moment) amazing. It does exactly what it says on the tin. A forth armour class that all characters can wear while not at work (in combat). The only problem is that there are not enough activities, games and events to do in them.

In contrast, I would make the oppersite argument that: the ORIGINAL implementation of town clothes was a completely necessary layer of creation….a 4th class of armour. Three combat armor types and town clothes, the forth. That was perfectly sustainable in every sense of the word.

We are a good example of complete oppersite opinions in this topic, Nage. ; )

Risa Aerulight.3914:

If I have been following everything correctly this is what we know for sure:

Individual (or sold by themselves) town clothing head pieces will be turned into helm armor skins (bunny ears, sunglasses, etc)

Individual other town clothes items that are not head pieces will be turned into undyable, unstackable tonics with the remaining slots filled in with modesty clothing (khaki cargo pants, cherry blossom shirt, etc)

Clothing items that came in a costume set will be turned into a single slot outfit and reduced to only 4 colors – compared to its previous up to 4 colors per individual item – this will include its head piece (so Mad King Thorn with pumpkin head or no Mad King thorn at all)

Refunds to outfits will be considered on a case-by-case basis.
Individual items made into tonics can be refunded.
Gems will be what you will get back.

Bold added by me: It was stated somewhere that you could opt to hide the helm in outfits, too. So it’s really MKT w/pumpkin head or MKT w/o pumpkin head, but not with any other helm, either.

I’m just fixing what I broke. (New page)