Guild Wars 2

So, okay, this is for people who have the creativity for story writing here… and even the ones who kinda don’t but at least understand it?

One of the major things that bugged me about the GW 2 overall present story line is: The power of a dragon.

Anyone who has done the Lyssa event has heard or read this: “The Dragon ate your Gods…”

Okay, lets back up a few ticks here.

Gods.

I have come to find in the last 10 years or so when exploring and considering many different story lines is that a God is the end all-be all of cosmic power. Right? Err… maybe not.

Beings of significant ability, no matter what it is has been considered a deity in the eyes of humans. An assumption. Gods are NOT Gods in reality, yet are only perceived as such by fragile mortals.

Okay, now Balthizaar, Grenth, Dwayna, Lyssa, Melandru, Komir…. even the exiled God Abbadon… have all been to our knowledge as Gods, the end-all, be-all of cosmic power. Should this be true rather than mass speculation, then how is that the elder dragons have such an ability to cut off passage to the Underworld and the Fissure of Woe, literally barring the Gods to enter Tyria? They are overgrown flying lizards with magic, I get that, but if a God is the end-all/be-all of cosmic power, then how can they find themselves thrown out of the Tyrian amusement park having had the big magical lizards lock the entrance gate?

In MY eyes, when considering Gods to be the end-all be-all, meant that they have no power over or even equal to their own. Dragons would not be a challenging threat to a God…

This conversation revolving solely around Fiction and in Fiction, anything is possible, that is understood, but… are there not some garden variety rules set into the place when brewing up this kind of story?

Thoughts, anyone?

I agree, this has been a glaring problem with the story line for me as well. Why exactly are these dragons viewed as powerful, given how easily they seem to die/ be thwarted by mortals, wouldn’t the Gods just laugh at them and flick them away as a human does a fly?

I’ll put this short: +1

DragonMind.2983:

I’ll put this short: +1

Huh? lol

I think God is just someone or something a group choose to follow as a role model.
For the humans the 6 Gods are the entities that brought them to Tyria, the Flame Legion used the Titans as Gods, the Norns have the spirits of the nature as Gods and so on, that doesn’t mean that a Gods need to be the ultimate power.

There’s obviously more to the Elder Dragons than meets the eye ^^;.

Extract from http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elder_Dragons :

The Elder Dragons are ancient, powerful draconic creatures of unknown origins. The awakening of the dragons is followed by their drive to consume of all magic in the land.

Ancient jotun stelae indicate that throughout prehistory, the Elder Dragons have gone through cycles of awakening, destruction, and hibernation, each time ending an era of life in Tyria and bringing forth a new one.

Described as forces of nature and primordial forces from the view of Tyrians, the dragons seem no different and just as unstoppable as a blizzard or earthquake. Each dragon holds a tie to a certain element – fire, ice, crystal, even death.

And: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_dragon

Which is why I found Zhaitan’s death extremely disappointing.

Kiayin.3427:

Which is why I found Zhaitan’s death extremely disappointing.

One of the reasons I think that Anet should go back and redo Arah Story and some parts of the Personal Story as well.

But on the topic at hand…
As it has been said, the Elder Dragons are considered primordial forces of nature, on a level of power that mortals might have a hard time comprehending. They aren’t just ‘flying lizards’ in this case.
The human gods are also exceedingly powerful, but, they are not the end all, be all of things either. They are powerful enough to have brought humans to Tyria, and help shape their society and even give them the gift of magic. But they didn’t create the world and all in it either.

Think of it like this… Thor from the Marvel comics. He is the Asgardian god of thunder and has a level of strength and power that humans could never hope to achieve.
Despite that, the Hulk (who I believe is considered very much mortal) can and has fought Thor numerous times in the past. And I believe that Thor has lost a few of those fights…

Point is, I think the Six Human Gods have more in common with Thor and the Asgardians, rather then being considered the all powerful creator of all things.

ShinjoNaomi.1896:

Think of it like this… Thor from the Marvel comics. He is the Asgardian god of thunder and has a level of strength and power that humans could never hope to achieve.
Despite that, the Hulk (who I believe is considered very much mortal) can and has fought Thor numerous times in the past. And I believe that Thor has lost a few of those fights…

Point is, I think the Six Human Gods have more in common with Thor and the Asgardians, rather then being considered the all powerful creator of all things.

“There’s only one God, ma’am, and I’m pretty sure he doesn’t dress like that.”

Jaymee, one of the problems with your thoughts is that you assume the Six are being forced out, or blocked by the Elder Dragons. Just as in Christianity, God gave man free will, and allowed them to set a path for themselves. This is why the Old Testament is so different than the New. One shows God to play an active role in the world, while the modern day one shows God to merely influence mankind. So it’s possible that the story in the Guild Wars universe is that the Six are allowing humans to resolve our problems on our own.

Second problem is that you’re mixing the Six “gods” as all powerful deities, on par with God or Jehovah or Allah or Buddha. In GW lore, it took a handful of humans to lock away two fallen gods, Abaddon and Dhuum. While GW lore shows that they are powerful, they are not “end all”.

/spoiler – The Six gods aren’t gone. They’re merely vacationing in Cantha. Anet can easily prove me wrong by unlocking passage there.

Since the Human Gods didnt crete Tyria,my guess is that the former denizens or Gods,that did indeed create Tyria might have used the Dragons as a cycle of reset to the planet,when magic got too out of hand they would consume it all,to keep the magic in check,perhaps we are doing more evil bad than good by stoping them,certainly would be cool if we were just plain wrong,it could go there

I suggest you take a look at the wiki. You have to take into account all pieces of info from both games. All the lore about each race/sub race, God/Elder Dragon… their killable offspring and ofc, the Demons.

From what I can tell:
We don’t know where the Gods are from and the extent of their power. We know they can be subdued. We know they have power over Magic as they have given it to many of the races of Tyria. They are known in many realms(but oddly enough, realms that inhabit the races of Tyria +/- a Demons)

We know Elder Dragons eat magic. We don’t know where the Elder Dragons are from and the extent of their power.

We know both can be subdued. We don’t know if they can be killed.

Zhaitan may or may not be dead. We just know that we have stopped him for the time being.
Abaddon isn’t dead.
Dhuum isn’t dead.

On the off chance that the Gods are actually stronger the Elder Dragons, they don’t mess around in Tyrian affairs. All they do in the first game is show favor, blessing you with minor buffs. They don’t intervene at all. Not since they went to war and eventually imprisoned Abaddon and then left Tyria for good shortly after.

Akari Storm.6809:

I suggest you take a look at the wiki. You have to take into account all pieces of info from both games. All the lore about each race/sub race, God/Elder Dragon… their killable offspring and ofc, the Demons.

From what I can tell:
We don’t know where the Gods are from and the extent of their power. We know they can be subdued. We know they have power over Magic as they have given it to many of the races of Tyria. They are known in many realms(but oddly enough, realms that inhabit the races of Tyria +/- a Demons)

We know Elder Dragons eat magic. We don’t know where the Elder Dragons are from and the extent of their power.

We know both can be subdued. We don’t know if they can be killed.

Zhaitan may or may not be dead. We just know that we have stopped him for the time being.
Abaddon isn’t dead.
Dhuum isn’t dead.

On the off chance that the Gods are actually stronger the Elder Dragons, they don’t mess around in Tyrian affairs. All they do in the first game is show favor, blessing you with minor buffs. They don’t intervene at all. Not since they went to war and eventually imprisoned Abaddon and then left Tyria for good shortly after.

I never said Abbadon or Dhuum were dead, I recall stating specifically that Abbadon was exiled.

Does the whole, “The Dragon ate your gods.” thing appear anywhere else? Coming from anything at the Altar of Lies, I’d consider the statement to be an outright fabrication, or at least a massive exaggeration.

The gods leaving Tyria is a literary parallel of our own attempts at explaining reality, which is a common theme among industrialization and the modern literature. Read some Nietzsche for further understanding. What i’m saying is, the developers are human artists. They are influenced by the same thought and philosophy as any other human. There isn’t always clear, logical boundaries in a work of art, especially in MMOs because they evolve over time.

Also, if you look at it another way, the Charr’s development of technology and the exodus of the human gods is mirrored in history with the ancient Greek and Roman civilizations.

You need to take into account that expression has influences that parallel our own reality and not always assume that a fictional world has to come full circle with logic and rationale over design choices. The human gods in Tyria are akin to the Greco-Roman pantheon. It’s mythology. Take a look at Robert Campbell’s work surrounding mythology.

Realize the parallels, but also remember, fantasy is fantasy and it’s likely that ArenaNet hasn’t thought as far as its’ player base in regards to lore. Arena Net seems to act before they think in light of events since the launch of GW2.

Jaymee.1560:

I have come to find in the last 10 years or so when exploring and considering many different story lines is that a God is the end all-be all of cosmic power. Right? Err… maybe not.

Seems to me there’s a distinction between God and gods. What your describing sounds like the monotheistic God, capital G, which is very distinct from polytheistic gods, like the Greek/Roman gods, Norse gods, etc. Unlike the monotheistic God, those gods were powerful, but not all-powerful, frequently challenged by both each other and non-god creatures, like the Titans or Fenrir. (Indeed, Fenrir kills Odin, the Allfather, in Norse mythology.)

In GW2, the Six are definitely more like the polytheistic gods; powerful, but not all powerful. I don’t know if an elder dragon has enough power to eat one of them, but Jormag definitely had enough power to kill Owl, who might as well be a (minor) god to the norn, and the Sons of Svanir seem to worship Jormag like a god.

The gods of Tyria ain’t so tough. Men defeated one and replaced him with one of their own. Perhaps they have disappeared in the last 250 years because they are afraid of more of their number being replaced?

Zhaitan was defeated by weakening him before the final battle. In addition, technology played a significant role. In many ways, the story is about the triumph of technology over magic.

Which sets up for Guild Wars 3 in space!