Guild Wars 2

You claim that the changes to the personal story will make it less awkward inbetween because you can do chapters all together without breaks, but do you realise that it makes the story feel…

beyond stupid? As a human character, you get knocked out for 2 days and nights and then you are told your friends took care of you during that time. Good idea to be a horrible person and NOT LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE OKAY, until you hit Level 10.

Same goes with charr reporting back to their respective warband. it makes zero sense. I cant think of a good example for other races, except for being even more confused about what you actually are supposed to do.

Furthermore, why are we getting things from the Asian market thrown at us? you should be aware that the Eastern and Western Market in terms of MMORPGs are ENTIRELY different. they prefer grindy games, we dont, to my knowledge.

Also, dont hype minor “features” to oblivion and make it seem like its even remotely something for veteran players to look forward to, because its not.

I have played this game since launch, and this change that rewards only new players, if at all, as a veteran, i feel insulted.

The Game is far from hard to learn. Downstate unlocks at level 5? excuse me? who takes until level 5 to learn that they have to press freaking 4 to get back up, huh? you get knocked down once, you get it. easy.

Locking Weapon Skills behind Level restrictions is also bad, horribly bad. It makes the leveling experience even more grindy and annoying than it already was.

TL;DR After 2 weeks of “very excited” blogposts, I am getting the feeling that you dont seem to have any idea what you are even doing anymore. you are clearly not with what players want or need. You are only catering to new players, while neglecting what your existing players want. That is NOT the way you should go.

Compared to April Feature Patch, this one is a joke.

AysonCurrax.3254:

You are only catering to new players.

seems like a valid approach when talking about the initial part of the story.

Also there is no confirmation, only speculation, that the PS story will be locked until level 10. There is no such statement or hint in the blog post about it, and there has been no red post to confirm this.

pdavis.8031:

Also there is no confirmation, only speculation, that the PS story will be locked until level 10. There is no such statement or hint in the blog post about it, and there has been no red post to confirm this.

That seems to be the way things are on the Chinese Client though, and they are simply porting it over here. I dont see that changing too much. Then again, once again, blog post fails to be specific with relevant information, thus resulting in poop storms you see all over this forum right now.

While they are porting things over from the Chinese Client, they were very specific about locking the WvW and PvP buttons on the tool bar until level 18 and 22. Making such a dramatic change to the PS unlocking at level 10 without so much as a whisper doesn’t fit into their MO. Yes the blogs tend to be a bit vague, but with changes of that magnitude they are very upfront about it.

Astral Projections.7320:

pdavis.8031:

While they are porting things over from the Chinese Client, they were very specific about locking the WvW and PvP buttons on the tool bar until level 18 and 22. Making such a dramatic change to the PS unlocking at level 10 without so much as a whisper doesn’t fit into their MO. Yes the blogs tend to be a bit vague, but with changes of that magnitude they are very upfront about it.

True, they don’t specifically say but they have that system already made and set up in China. They just need to port it in, not completely remake it for our client.

It’s also in the words they use:
“story chapters become another big moment to look forward to earning and unlocking as your character levels up.” Here they are saying that they are something you will be looking forward to. If you get the first section immediately after reaching level 2, then you haven’t spent any time “looking forward to it”.

and thus ruining the immersion of the story, unless they change it severly. “should have reported back to my friends to let them know i am okay, leveled to 10 and let them worry instead, kitten em”.

True Hero. 10/10 would unlock downstate at level 5 again.

I truly hope that’s not the case. Getting sucked into the early missions of Charr PS right away was what convinced me to stay in the game.

Asmodeus.5782:

I truly hope that’s not the case. Getting sucked into the early missions of Charr PS right away was what convinced me to stay in the game.

well, even if we point out our concerns, i dont think they are going to care or do anything about it and hammer it onto the live server, not caring what they are doing with it.

Clearly, instead of addressing the many topics about this issue, they spend their sweet time responding to a Happy Birthday Topic. that is beyond infuriating.

Astral Projections.7320:

pdavis.8031:

While they are porting things over from the Chinese Client, they were very specific about locking the WvW and PvP buttons on the tool bar until level 18 and 22. Making such a dramatic change to the PS unlocking at level 10 without so much as a whisper doesn’t fit into their MO. Yes the blogs tend to be a bit vague, but with changes of that magnitude they are very upfront about it.

True, they don’t specifically say but they have that system already made and set up in China. They just need to port it in, not completely remake it for our client.

It’s also in the words they use:
“story chapters become another big moment to look forward to earning and unlocking as your character levels up.” Here they are saying that they are something you will be looking forward to. If you get the first section immediately after reaching level 2, then you haven’t spent any time “looking forward to it”.

Yes, but what is being left out is: “As another addition with the level-up guide, we’re updating the personal story steps using our new Story Journal so they come in story chunks that unlock all at once per chapter. When a story chapter is unlocked as a level-up reward, you’ll be able to play straight through the entire chapter from start to finish and not have any awkward starts and stops that throw off the storyline.”

This says to me is that I can play through an entire story chapter seamlessly without interruption. As it is, with each chapter, I need to step away from the story, and level up a bunch before I can go to the next step in the story chapter.

Adding in the level 10 restriction does exactly the opposite. The story starts at level 2. Now if I had to wait until level 10 to be able to finish that story, where is the seamless “play from start to finish without awkward starts and stops”?

I don’t know how the Chinese Client has included this problem, but I don’t see it coming here without first changing several things, and without an announcment of some kind stating that is what is happening.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

AysonCurrax.3254:

You are only catering to new players.

seems like a valid approach when talking about the initial part of the story.

It’s more like to new “characters” considering what the feature is for. Honestly, I thought this is quite nice.

Asmodeus.5782:

I truly hope that’s not the case. Getting sucked into the early missions of Charr PS right away was what convinced me to stay in the game.

Quote for truth. I really hope the first chunk of the Story is unlocked from the very start, because the story is the best thing about the early levels of the game. Gives you something to focus on, leads you around the map, and sucks you into the lore. If I had to get to level 10 just wandering around a starter zone aimlessly, I’m sure I wouldn’t have made it out of Beta weekend 1.

pdavis.8031:

Astral Projections.7320:

pdavis.8031:

While they are porting things over from the Chinese Client, they were very specific about locking the WvW and PvP buttons on the tool bar until level 18 and 22. Making such a dramatic change to the PS unlocking at level 10 without so much as a whisper doesn’t fit into their MO. Yes the blogs tend to be a bit vague, but with changes of that magnitude they are very upfront about it.

True, they don’t specifically say but they have that system already made and set up in China. They just need to port it in, not completely remake it for our client.

It’s also in the words they use:
“story chapters become another big moment to look forward to earning and unlocking as your character levels up.” Here they are saying that they are something you will be looking forward to. If you get the first section immediately after reaching level 2, then you haven’t spent any time “looking forward to it”.

Yes, but what is being left out is: “As another addition with the level-up guide, we’re updating the personal story steps using our new Story Journal so they come in story chunks that unlock all at once per chapter. When a story chapter is unlocked as a level-up reward, you’ll be able to play straight through the entire chapter from start to finish and not have any awkward starts and stops that throw off the storyline.”

This says to me is that I can play through an entire story chapter seamlessly without interruption. As it is, with each chapter, I need to step away from the story, and level up a bunch before I can go to the next step in the story chapter.

Adding in the level 10 restriction does exactly the opposite. The story starts at level 2. Now if I had to wait until level 10 to be able to finish that story, where is the seamless “play from start to finish without awkward starts and stops”?

I don’t know how the Chinese Client has included this problem, but I don’t see it coming here without first changing several things, and without an announcment of some kind stating that is what is happening.

I’m not sure how what you said relates to when it starts. They said it will come in chunks so obviously it’s no longer seamless no matter when it starts, level 2 or level 10. The first part is the tutorial. The personal story really doesn’t start until you leave the tutorial and get the first message of what to do next.

Even if you consider the tutorial as part of the personal story, it’s still an obvious place to pause it to allow your char to level up enough to tackle the first set.

Right now there is a breadcrumb that leads you from one to the next and it’s obvious you need to level up for each section. If a level 2 player gets the personal story as a chunk to do, not one story at a time, I suspect that ANet feels too many would try to tackle it as one chunk. They would hit content with mobs way to hard for them and get discouraged. For this reason I think ANet set it aside till level 10. At that point your level is above or matches the personal story chunk.

I’m not saying that I don’t wish you were right. I just think that ANet does not want level 2 players immediately doing personal story, that they want them out in the world leveling and exploring first, learning skills and weapons, before they tackle it.

They are killing the only part about the story I really liked: Doing the story when you, the player decide to to it. Now I can’t even do that.
That’s a really stupid move from them.

Incredibly pointless change. The story will suck anyways and the only good part is at the beginning.

Good thing I have level 20 scrolls…

Isn’t the first personal story step actually to go do one of the hearts? That will be awkward if unlocked at level 10. Not to mention potentially problematic if you’ve already done all of the hearts the story step counts…

None of these changes sound like improvements. They sound like they are taking away some of the unique elements that made GW2 BETTER than the competition. Let’s just agree that the devs messed this one up and remove it from the September patch before anyone gets hurt.

Ohoni.6057:

None of these changes sound like improvements. They sound like they are taking away some of the unique elements that made GW2 BETTER than the competition. Let’s just agree that the devs messed this one up and remove it from the September patch before anyone gets hurt.

Seriously, limiting story steps to levels is one of the dumber things I can imagine to “streamline” the experience. Should have just stuck with level rewards as far as the “features” go.

Same thing goes to weapon skills. WTH?

Believe it or not, people are not stupid. If they see that something is too hard for them, they will either get help, or level up a bit before trying again.

Level locking story elements? Might as well just go play another MMO. GW2 is becoming less and less unique the more they “improve.”

I understand adding replayability to personal story, that’s a great add. But limiting the story to when you can complete blocks of it at a time? No thanks. All of my characters have been doing the story as I please, having them level locked would ruin that for new players as well, something I find both my recently recruited friends doing. I don’t want to/them to have to farm WvW just to get my levels to do story mode. Grinding for quest text is exactly why a large majority don’t like other MMOs.

Ah yes, yet more changes that we don’t need.

AysonCurrax.3254:

Furthermore, why are we getting things from the Asian market thrown at us? you should be aware that the Eastern and Western Market in terms of MMORPGs are ENTIRELY different. they prefer grindy games, we dont, to my knowledge.

Exactly this ^! It infuriates me that because a function works in an area that has a completely different play mindset/style, doesn’t mean you should implement it for us.

The game is easy to learn how to play, we don’t need to be babied. Now, with the downed state unlocking at level 5, wouldn’t that confuse new players more than actually having it from the start? Because suddenly you’re going to be level 5 and going ‘what the feck is going on? what do I do?’. Having come from an old MMO where if you died you went to a home point or had to wait for someone that could cast a revive spell in 1 hour, the downed state is actually refreshing.

Ohoni.6057:

None of these changes sound like improvements. They sound like they are taking away some of the unique elements that made GW2 BETTER than the competition. Let’s just agree that the devs messed this one up and remove it from the September patch before anyone gets hurt.

You think that a game that forces you to interrupt a story’s arc midway because the following instance required you to grind 3 levels was “better than the competition”?

I don’t know about you, but if I’m watching an episode on TV, I would greatly dislike to take a break of several hours between the first half and the second half of that episode. By the time the second half would start, I would have forgotten what has happened, or simply wouldn’t care much anymore.

Grouping story arcs in big chunks is a big improvement, as Living World season 2 shows with its episodic structure.

I don’t understand all these new locked features… Are they trying to make the game grindy or what? The leveling system is perfect as it is right now, and the personal story is one of the most exciting parts of the game.

Why lock it only for level 10 characters? Why lock SPvP and WvW to new players? What’s the point? The first thing I did as soon as I installed the game was to join SPvP and EoTM, and that was really fun for me.

I enjoy pretty much all the the game has to offer, but I know people who only strictly play WvW or PvP, and only bought the game to play these game modes. For new players this new feature pack will limit their experience.

New players can still play WvW and PvP, only their icons at the top of the screen will be locked.

DiogoSilva.7089:

New players can still play WvW and PvP, only their icons at the top of the screen will be locked.

If their icons will be locked, it means they can’t click them right? If they can’t click them, they can’t join WvW or PvP.

XDeadzX.2581:

I don’t want to/them to have to farm WvW just to get my levels to do story mode. Grinding for quest text is exactly why a large majority don’t like other MMOs.

But it’s exactly what GW2 already does. If you finish, for example, a lv7 story instance, and your next instance is lv10, you have to farm 3 levels in the current system.

The only difference between the old and the new systems, is that plot arcs will now be grouped together, so the personal story should go smoother within each arc.

EDIT

Davey.7029:

DiogoSilva.7089:

New players can still play WvW and PvP, only their icons at the top of the screen will be locked.

If their icons will be locked, it means they can’t click them right? If they can’t click them, they can’t join WvW or PvP.

You will still be able to go through portals, or by using keybinds. So if you press B, for example, and open the WvW menu, you can still go through it.

Davey.7029:

DiogoSilva.7089:

New players can still play WvW and PvP, only their icons at the top of the screen will be locked.

If their icons will be locked, it means they can’t click them right? If they can’t click them, they can’t join WvW or PvP.

For WvW they can go through the LA portals.

I admit I’m not familiar enough with PvP to know if they have a portal in LA or not.

DiogoSilva.7089:

XDeadzX.2581:

I don’t want to/them to have to farm WvW just to get my levels to do story mode. Grinding for quest text is exactly why a large majority don’t like other MMOs.

But it’s exactly what GW2 already does. If you finish, for example, a lv7 story instance, and your next instance is lv10, you have to farm 3 levels in the current system.

The only difference between the old and the new systems, is that plot arcs will now be grouped together, so the personal story should go smoother within each arc.

Well true, it’s also not exactly true either. I can currently jump into a level 10 instance with my level 7, and complete the story. Or if I really want to experience it, I can recruit a friend to help out as well. With the new system, I can’t simply continue on with my story whenever I feel like it. I’m not only locked out from starting a level 10 instance at 7, but every bit of the story before level 10 is also locked out — I haven’t even done levels 1-7. Much less completing it for the story by having a friend pull me through.

It blocks key farming, so people will actually have to buy the black lion’s key. Benefits Anet 100%

I feel like this is moving backwards, like if Anet had level locked story from the start and then said “hey guys! No more level locked story!” we would all give a collective “sounds good!”.

I’m sensing that ANet doesn’t want to deal with two codebases in terms of major differences how the game works.

That said it’s dumb. Doesn’t matter if the first 10 levels are relatively quick in terms of playing time. What it smells like to a lot of players is a way to neutralize key farming.

Astral Projections.7320:

Davey.7029:

DiogoSilva.7089:

New players can still play WvW and PvP, only their icons at the top of the screen will be locked.

If their icons will be locked, it means they can’t click them right? If they can’t click them, they can’t join WvW or PvP.

For WvW they can go through the LA portals.

I admit I’m not familiar enough with PvP to know if they have a portal in LA or not.

There is a portal in LA. It’s near the WvW portals. I think you can also keybind the menu, tho it’s not by default. checks Yeah, you can, but it’s not by default.

Becka Williams.4978:

Astral Projections.7320:

Davey.7029:

DiogoSilva.7089:

New players can still play WvW and PvP, only their icons at the top of the screen will be locked.

If their icons will be locked, it means they can’t click them right? If they can’t click them, they can’t join WvW or PvP.

For WvW they can go through the LA portals.

I admit I’m not familiar enough with PvP to know if they have a portal in LA or not.

There is a portal in LA. It’s near the WvW portals. I think you can also keybind the menu, tho it’s not by default. checks Yeah, you can, but it’s not by default.

Yeah. Went back and read it again. If you know what you are doing you can get into PvP.
“but experienced users can use the portals in Lion’s Arch or use hot keys to access those game modes immediately.”

You think that a game that forces you to interrupt a story’s arc midway because the following instance required you to grind 3 levels was “better than the competition”?

If you like you can save up story chapters until you hit level 10 and then do them in one go already. Or you can do them as you hit each level, the option is left up to you, which is better than if the option is taken away from you.

Ideally the story missions would adjust to your level, so that if you wanted to blitz through the story you could start doing so at level 2 and by the time you got to the “level 10” story step if you were level 4, it would have level 4 enemies in it. Then the second chapter would unlock at level 10, rather than the first. The first ten levels just seem like they would be such a drag without any story steps.

This sort of change should only be made if it helps the players. Locking the personal story until level 10 seems to do nothing to help the players at all.

Would putting the personal story into chunks help with
- putting the personal story into the same format as LS2
- selling chunks of personal story in the gem store
- free access until level 10 with PvP and personal story unlocked after (after payment)

Ohoni.6057:

Ideally the story missions would adjust to your level, so that if you wanted to blitz through the story you could start doing so at level 2 and by the time you got to the “level 10” story step if you were level 4, it would have level 4 enemies in it. Then the second chapter would unlock at level 10, rather than the first. The first ten levels just seem like they would be such a drag without any story steps.

I completely agree.

In either case, if they are unlocking them in chunks of ten then I hope they’ve gotten rid of some of the pointless “Go back to your home city to speak to Zoija / whoever, so she can just send you back out to somewhere close to where you were previously” bits, which annoyed me first time round and would be even worse if there wasn’t even a level gap to possibly make up first.

Ohoni.6057:

If you like you can save up story chapters until you hit level 10 and then do them in one go already. Or you can do them as you hit each level, the option is left up to you, which is better than if the option is taken away from you.

Ideally the story missions would adjust to your level, so that if you wanted to blitz through the story you could start doing so at level 2 and by the time you got to the “level 10” story step if you were level 4, it would have level 4 enemies in it. Then the second chapter would unlock at level 10, rather than the first. The first ten levels just seem like they would be such a drag without any story steps.

The problem is that you must either choose between blazing through instances while overleveled, or accept the clumsy pace between gameplay/ story.

I’d rather get a sturdy structure that is linear, than a choice between two less-than-ideal options. Quality > quantity. (And it’s not like this game would suddenly become less linear just because of this detail).

The problem with your alternative suggestion, is that levels would be completely meaningless, so a sense of progression would be lost here. Players will STILL have the choice of going into story instances overpowered with the new system, which is still something some like to do.

I do agree, however, that the first story step starting at level TEN might feel bad. I’d rather have it start right at level 2, or at least 5-ish or so. And if Anet wants to address key farming, it would be very simple: they could simply move that reward to a later instance, but perhaps they don’t want it to be too late.

Back at launch, it was somewhat common to hear people complaining about the level grind. From their point of view, they had to complete multiple starting zones just to be the appropriate level and the next personal story step was always too many levels away. These complaints still pop up today, they’re just far more rare since the WoW influx moved on.

The problem was, these people were trying to play the game like every other traditional quest based game, meaning they were simply following the quest tracker. In GW2’s case, this means they were primarily following the personal story and doing hearts. For whatever reason, they mostly skipped events. For the players that went hardcore traditional MMO leveling, meaning questing and grinding mobs to level, GW2 was just another Korean grind fest (and they were already biased due to NCSoft), because grinding mobs was incredibly low on experience.

By placing the personal story into chapters, these players will no longer feel that they have to grind to the level of the next personal story step, assuming the next chapter is not displayed in the quest tracker. However, they will probably now find it much harder to get into the game, considering they couldn’t figure out how to explore in the first place, and now they’re expected to from the start. I’m guessing that’s what the new UI helper is for.

As for starting the personal story at level 10, personally, I’d say start it at 5 tops. Level 10 is like 1/2 way through the first zone, or the entire zone for those that don’t 100% the map. Assuming they’re split in ranges of 10 levels, a player should easily be able to be 5 levels off, which the first 1/2 of the chapter would probably grant them anyways.

honestly if this is to make the story feel less disjointed and give players something to look forward to… it’s gonna have the exact opposite effect.

now the story suddenly goes away for TEN levels, not two or three. not only that, this constant progression, knowing that the next step was just a level away, will be lost, because suddenly the gap between storylines is much, much larger.

honestly, i wouldn’t be surprised if most new players don’t even realize the game is supposed to have a story until level 10. and what should they do until then? grind? the personal story is the main exp push for new players, and locking it away will make the early levels feel horrible. and if the early levels are horrible, the retention level will be low. most people won’t endure through a bad game under the promise of “it’ll get good after you devote hours to it”, so the grindfest that the first 10 levels without story exp (and without utilities, without weapon skills, without weapon swap, without… why are you taking everything away?) will be are more than enough for people to walk away from the game with a poor opinion of it.

you’re scaring people away from your own game, ANet.

The problem with your alternative suggestion, is that levels would be completely meaningless, so a sense of progression would be lost here. Players will STILL have the choice of going into story instances overpowered with the new system, which is still something some like to do.

What if it allowed both? What if enemies only scaled down, not up? That is to say, you would be able to do every story mission 1-10 at level 2. If you did the level 10 mission at level 4, then the enemies would scale down to level 4, theoretically making it doable for all classes. If you did the mission at level 8 then they would be level 8. If you did it at level 10 then they would be 10. But if you did them at level 12, or level 80 even, they would remain 10.

Fair compromise? It would allow you to get through the content at any level within that range, while also allowing you to faceroll it if you’re having trouble (and I can empathize there, trying to do the Charr story missions with my second Thief was a real slog).