Guild Wars 2

Today I am a spammer… since this is my second post about this Balthazar Outfit!
- I don’t want to hear “ANet needs to make money!” comments, because I already know that, and I don’t mind them putting armors and outfits in the gem store, but this particular Balthazar one http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Avatar_of_Balthazar_model.jpg that is supposedly coming as an outfit?

What would you people prefer?

• Fissure of Woe and Menzies?
• Gem Store outfit?

I’ll say it again: This Armor set has too much potential to be in the Gem Store!
- Same goes for all the armor sets of the Gods.
How about the full set of Grenth and introduce Dhuum as a bossfight in the Underworld, the realm of Grenth?

• http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dhuum
• http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Underworld

Or how about Margonite themed sets and actually make that Abaddon bossfight in the Plane of Torment? And while we’re at it, why not meet the Lich and Shiro Tagachi in the Plane of Torment as well?

• http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:%22Margonite%22_concept_art_1.jpg
• http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Lich
• http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shiro_Tagachi

There’s stuff that ANet can put in the Gem Store, and then there’s stuff that has the potential to drive GW2 forward and/or tie in some GW1 lore.

Sinifair.1026:

Or how about Margonite themed sets and actually make that Abaddon bossfight in the Plane of Torment? And while we’re at it, why not meet the Lich and Shiro Tagachi in the Plane of Torment as well?

Won’t really work because Abaddon and, I assume, Lich and Shiro are all expressingly stated to be dead and gone forever?

I would also ask what they should put in the gem store instead of this outfit, in order to make up for lost revenue.

lordkrall.7241:

Sinifair.1026:

Or how about Margonite themed sets and actually make that Abaddon bossfight in the Plane of Torment? And while we’re at it, why not meet the Lich and Shiro Tagachi in the Plane of Torment as well?

Won’t really work because Abaddon and, I assume, Lich and Shiro are all expressingly stated to be dead and gone forever?

I would also ask what they should put in the gem store instead of this outfit, in order to make up for lost revenue.

From what I can tell by reading the other threads, outfits that absolutely no one would want as an armor.

lordkrall.7241:

I would also ask what they should put in the gem store instead of this outfit, in order to make up for lost revenue.

Templates.

Deli.1302:

Templates.

I can already hear all the rage about putting such a “required and basic feature” behind a paywall

Just a flesh wound.3589:

From what I can tell by reading the other threads, outfits that absolutely no one would want as an armor.

That doesn’t really say anything though. And I find it extremely unlikely that they would ever find such a thing (and that it would sell as well as these god outfits.

I’d prefer Gem Store outfit.

I think it’s pretty cool that ArenaNet are making costumes from the original Guild Wars available in Guild Wars 2.

What I’m wondering is, did players in the original Guild Wars whine so much about these being costumes in the cash store? The Guild Wars 2 forums are getting unreal. Every little thing ArenaNet adds into the game causes some sort of riot.

It doesn’t matter what people prefer. We most likely aren’t getting any major updates before HoT.

lordkrall.7241:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

From what I can tell by reading the other threads, outfits that absolutely no one would want as an armor.

That doesn’t really say anything though. And I find it extremely unlikely that they would ever find such a thing (and that it would sell as well as these god outfits.

That was sort of my point.

I was trying to say that what they are essentially asking is no outfits at all as every outfit is a potential armor set for someone. Since they are asking for no outfits but only armor and since if ANet put armor in the gemstore then there would be an outcry about that, then there is nothing comparable that they can suggest to bring money into the gemstore.

It’s not so much that I want it before HoT.

My general problem is that I’d like to buy gems and Gem Store items to support ANet, so they can make more GW2 content. Help the game grow, you know.
- Problem is that I expected this armor to make it into GW2 sometime, but I would have hoped that the gems I bought would have helped ANet to make it a reward for defeating Menzies.

I feels more like that my money is spent towards making more Gem Store items.

lordkrall.7241:

Won’t really work because Abaddon and, I assume, Lich and Shiro are all expressingly stated to be dead and gone forever?

Fractals?

A reward for defeating Menzies? How many years, if ever, before this will happen? We can get the outfit and wear it now or wait for content that may never arrive (and this armor that may not be a reward for it then).

OK, two things I need you people to understand:

1. I’d love to buy gems and armor sets in the Gem Store to support ANet. I’m not against that. Actually, I’m for it. My Guardian is using the Phalanx armor, which I find very nicely designed. No problem there.
2. I always hoped this armor set would make it into GW2. All of the Gods armor set as seen in this picture http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Gods_of_Tyria_Avatars.png.
   - However, I’ve supported ANet in the hopes that when armor sets such as these, with lore and story behind it, would make it into GW2, there would be some awesome content (like the Fissure of Woe) that you’d have to overcome in order to receive it.

I expected the Fissure of Woe in GW2 and I expected the return of Dhuum.
- This move, however, makes me fear that whenever some absolutely amazing items that could have tied lore and expanded the GW universe shows up in the game, it will end up in the Gem Store.

If ANet haven’t got the money to make the Fissure of Woe or the Underworld, to basically expand their universe and make awesome and entertaining, then why am I playing the game? (I am aware the expansion is coming, and you better believe I’m looking forward to it)
- Still, I hope you guys understand my concerns here. I feel it’s wasting potential.

Sinifair.1026:

Fractals?

I believe we lost our chance at a Fractal involving Abaddon when we voted for Kiel.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

A reward for defeating Menzies? How many years, if ever, before this will happen? We can get the outfit and wear it now or wait for content that may never arrive (and this armor that may not be a reward for it then).

If the content never arrives… if the potential is wasted? Then I’m worried whether or not I’ll stick with GW2… and I’ve been here since the open betas, played GW1 as well.
- I don’t want to leave, but I’m not compelled to stay either.

It’s a serious concern for an old GW fan.

Sinifair.1026:

OK, two things I need you people to understand:

1. I’d love to buy gems and armor sets in the Gem Store to support ANet. I’m not against that. Actually, I’m for it. My Guardian is using the Phalanx armor, which I find very nicely designed. No problem there.
2. I always hoped this armor set would make it into GW2. All of the Gods armor set as seen in this picture http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Gods_of_Tyria_Avatars.png.
   - However, I’ve supported ANet in the hopes that when armor sets such as these, with lore and story behind it, would make it into GW2, there would be some awesome content (like the Fissure of Woe) that you’d have to overcome in order to receive it.

I expected the Fissure of Woe in GW2 and I expected the return of Dhuum.
- This move, however, makes me fear that whenever some absolutely amazing items that could have tied lore and expanded the GW universe shows up in the game, it will end up in the Gem Store.

If ANet haven’t got the money to make the Fissure of Woe or the Underworld, to basically expand their universe and make awesome and entertaining, then why am I playing the game? (I am aware the expansion is coming, and you better believe I’m looking forward to it)
- Still, I hope you guys understand my concerns here. I feel it’s wasting potential.

So… what should they put in the gem store in order to get the same amount of income as this god outfit?

Also find the whole: “If they don’t have the money, why should I play?” when we have gotten FREE content for years. It is a matter of priorities rather than money I would say.

And just see what have happened every time they have added something that refers to or otherwise hints at GW1 lore. People have been raging like mad about retcons and the writers sucking because they have no clue about the lore and so on.

Right now and for the conceivable future of about ohhhh,12 years or so, the Guild Wars 2 story line is undoubtably going to be about defeating dragons. If you are expecting a god related story line, you’ve got a wait ahead of you.

lordkrall.7241:

Sinifair.1026:

Fractals?

I believe we lost our chance at a Fractal involving Abaddon when we voted for Kiel.

I didn’t vote for Kiel!
- I don’t get why ANet would make such a move that would have them exclude and waste the potential of a fractal of pure Tormentous awesomeness.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

lordkrall.7241:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

From what I can tell by reading the other threads, outfits that absolutely no one would want as an armor.

That doesn’t really say anything though. And I find it extremely unlikely that they would ever find such a thing (and that it would sell as well as these god outfits.

That was sort of my point.

I was trying to say that what they are essentially asking is no outfits at all as every outfit is a potential armor set for someone. Since they are asking for no outfits but only armor and since if ANet put armor in the gemstore then there would be an outcry about that, then there is nothing comparable that they can suggest to bring money into the gemstore.

Then again, this game was sold / advertised as B2P game so there should not even be a need to get the money from the cash-shop. It should come from the game and expansion. Of course that is never going to be enough if you have an expansion once ever +- 3 years, it would be if you had it every year.

Anyway, the ‘they need to earn money from the cash-shop’ is really a bad excuse in a B2P game, it would be a completely valid excuse in a F2P game however. Personally I do not care so much for costumes but it adds up to the grind. Play for something directly vs grind gold for it. (or buy it with cash.. but that is not playing the game).

Rangelost.4857:

I’d prefer Gem Store outfit.

I think it’s pretty cool that ArenaNet are making costumes from the original Guild Wars available in Guild Wars 2.

What I’m wondering is, did players in the original Guild Wars whine so much about these being costumes in the cash store? The Guild Wars 2 forums are getting unreal. Every little thing ArenaNet adds into the game causes some sort of riot.

Well I bought 2 Outfits in GW1 because I wanted to support the game and the development of GW2.
The first outfits came 2009, that was like 2 years after their last release (EotN).
Also at that point we were under the illusion that the gemstore would only feature cosmetic items.

And now? I don’t buy outfits at all, they are lazy, they remove the “get creative” part of armors and they still have clipping issues. Funnily enough I’m sitting on 800gems for like 2 months now because they haven’t added anything worthwhile (like armorsets).

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Right now and for the conceivable future of about ohhhh,12 years or so, the Guild Wars 2 story line is undoubtably going to be about defeating dragons. If you are expecting a god related story line, you’ve got a wait ahead of you.

Your comment… it’s just a flesh wound… nothing fatal… ugh…

Yeah, I’m aware of the pace of which GW2 is moving.
- I’m not suggesting an entire campaign-like story for the Gods. Just some sort of content that actually makes these armor sets seem worthwhile having.

Sinifair.1026:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Right now and for the conceivable future of about ohhhh,12 years or so, the Guild Wars 2 story line is undoubtably going to be about defeating dragons. If you are expecting a god related story line, you’ve got a wait ahead of you.

Your comment… it’s just a flesh wound… nothing fatal… ugh…

Yeah, I’m aware of the pace of which GW2 is moving.
- I’m not suggesting an entire campaign-like story for the Gods. Just some sort of content that actually makes these armor sets seem worthwhile having.

There’s nothing stopping them from making an even better set of similar armor when that day comes.

Sinifair.1026:

I didn’t vote for Kiel!
- I don’t get why ANet would make such a move that would have them exclude and waste the potential of a fractal of pure Tormentous awesomeness.

Because people demanded the ability to actually effect the storyline? :P

kokiman.2364:

Well I bought 2 Outfits in GW1 because I wanted to support the game and the development of GW2.
The first outfits came 2009, that was like 2 years after their last release (EotN).
Also at that point we were under the illusion that the gemstore would only feature cosmetic items.

And now? I don’t buy outfits at all, they are lazy, they remove the “get creative” part of armors and they still have clipping issues. Funnily enough I’m sitting on 800gems for like 2 months now because they haven’t added anything worthwhile (like armorsets).

There are items of no historical value, which simply looks nice. I have no problem seeing those as Gem Store items and as a source of revenue for the devs.
- Then there are items such as the Balthazar armor set that presents a setup for some seriously awesome dungeons, open world boss fight area or just in general some amazing content.

I can’t help but feel this is a waste of potential.
- I didn’t buy the other non-historical-valued ones just so the ones that presents awesome opportunities for ANet to be simply Gem Store items as well.

Sinifair.1026:

kokiman.2364:

Well I bought 2 Outfits in GW1 because I wanted to support the game and the development of GW2.
The first outfits came 2009, that was like 2 years after their last release (EotN).
Also at that point we were under the illusion that the gemstore would only feature cosmetic items.

And now? I don’t buy outfits at all, they are lazy, they remove the “get creative” part of armors and they still have clipping issues. Funnily enough I’m sitting on 800gems for like 2 months now because they haven’t added anything worthwhile (like armorsets).

There are items of no historical value, which simply looks nice. I have no problem seeing those as Gem Store items and as a source of revenue for the devs.
- Then there are items such as the Balthazar armor set that presents a setup for some seriously awesome dungeons, open world boss fight area or just in general some amazing content.

I can’t help but feel this is a waste of potential.
- I didn’t buy the other non-historical-valued ones just so the ones that presents awesome opportunities for ANet to just be Gem Store items as well.

I totally agree with you on that one. I also thought that they would use the balthazar armor for something “bigger” and not just as a gemstore outfit, but hey maybe we are wrong and it will be an npc only outfit One can always dream, right?

lordkrall.7241:

Sinifair.1026:

I didn’t vote for Kiel!
- I don’t get why ANet would make such a move that would have them exclude and waste the potential of a fractal of pure Tormentous awesomeness.

Because people demanded the ability to actually effect the storyline? :P

Touché!
But I think people meant their characters’ storylines, and make choices that actually matter for them. Imagine if we, with Destiny’s Edge 2.0, got the same dilemma as Logan. We could stay and fight Mordremoth or go help old friends or loved ones (I know that’s far out in an MMO, yes).

kokiman.2364:

I totally agree with you on that one. I also thought that they would use the balthazar armor for something “bigger” and not just as a gemstore outfit, but hey maybe we are wrong and it will be an npc only outfit One can always dream, right?

Npc outfit? Imagine the rage.
- I would have expected Menzies and Dhuum to make a return, and all the other outfits the gods are wearing here to be obtainable through some seriously hard bossfights: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Gods_of_Tyria_Avatars.png

Grenth style armor: Defeat Dhuum!
Balthazar style armor: Defeat Menzies!
- And so on for the other gods as well.
I don’t get how they couldn’t be excited about making that at ANet.

How about Mursaat wings as a backpiece for defeating Lazarus the Dire?
- Maybe they’ll play into that in HoT.

I would much rather see skins like this in the gem store than as a reward for content of some significant sort. Something intended for you to dress your character up as someone else (such as these costumes) rather than something intended for you to showcase your character in some new and interesting armor is exactly what I think should be in the gemstore.

OP this thread is based solely on your expectations which you created in your mind without any evidence that that would happen.

Costumes in Guild Wars 1 were like outfits here and they were sold through the gem store there. Reasonably, one would assume they would be sold the same way here.

I didn’t get a unique armor set for defeating the Underworld in the first Guild Wars 1 game.

You’re taking your expectations and trying to make them sound like they’re reasonable because to you they are. But they go against what’s already been done.

Your support of the gem shop is completely 100% not related to this issue. If you like the game and choose to support the game, that’s a personal choice. You support it for what’s out at that time, not what you think they sorta might maybe do in the future. That’s not a reasonable position.

If you don’t like what the company is doing, you’re certainly free to stop supporting them. But past support doesn’t entitle you to make policy. You either like the game and support it or you don’t. That’s up to you.

Vayne.8563:

OP this thread is based solely on your expectations which you created in your mind without any evidence that that would happen. Costumes in Guild Wars 1 were like outfits here and they were sold through the gem store there. Reasonably, one would assume they would be sold the same way here.

I didn’t really expect the return to Menzies and Dhuum (to take the two examples that would go well with a God-like armor set as a reward for completion).
- I am well aware that we don’t have an official “We here at ANet are going to make this content.” – My “acting out” or thread is me telling and asking the community, don’t you feel this is a waste?
(Why not make the god-themed outfits that were sold in the first game and wait with these for some appropriate content to go along with it?)
- I could also argue that we have dungeon sets in GW2, which we didn’t have in GW1, so your point about the ones in GW1 being sold in the “Gem Store” equivalent there is well taken, but without any real significance.

Vayne.8563:

I didn’t get a unique armor set for defeating the Underworld in the first Guild Wars 1 game.

You could get this? http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dhuum%27s_Soul_Reaper
- It’s something.

Vayne.8563:

You’re taking your expectations and trying to make them sound like they’re reasonable because to you they are. But they go against what’s already been done.

I get your point. But I do find it reasonable to give my two cents (or in this case, two posts, since this is my second) about an alternative that could present us with some neat lore that still has some relevance for us 250 years later in Tyria.
- Dhuum was never defeated. Neither do we know the fate of Menzies (or at least, not to my knowledge – Feel free to enlighten me, if I’m incorrect here).

Vayne.8563:

Your support of the gem shop is completely 100% not related to this issue. If you like the game and choose to support the game, that’s a personal choice. You support it for what’s out at that time, not what you think they sorta might maybe do in the future. That’s not a reasonable position.

If you don’t like what the company is doing, you’re certainly free to stop supporting them. But past support doesn’t entitle you to make policy. You either like the game and support it or you don’t. That’s up to you.

It is true that I supported it at the given time because I like it. Or rather, I see much potential, and would like to support the dev team so that they can realize that potential, so I could argue that while not 100% related, a lot of why I help them is so that the game can have a future.
- When I support GW2, I do so because I would like to help them create more content. And sure, I have my expectation of what could come and what I’d like to see.
- I found the content with Menzies and Dhuum to be sort of given, and if these sets were to make it into the game, then for them to be a reward for defeating these powerful god-like enemies.
- I support GW2 and hope to see intriguing content, but when something with real potential just slips right into the Gem Store, I’m starting to have some doubts.
- Even if the fight against Menzies and Dhuum came, what rewards would there be for defeating them? Anything that could top these sets?

As stated, if they would make god-themed armors, why not just remake the ones they sold in the first game, put them in the gem-store and make some proper content with these other ones?
- Then we’d get both Gem Store and in-game content, and I’d personally be more than happy to support.

And I’m not trying to make policy. As you said, I’m not entitled to that, but I’m entitled to share my opinion with them and with the community.
- And it is my heartfelt wish that they consider carefully what to put in the Gem Store and what could be so much more in the form of content.

Vayne.8563:

OP this thread is based solely on your expectations which you created in your mind without any evidence that that would happen.

And you created that sentence in your mind, without any knowledge of what my expectations were, exactly.

I never really expected to see this set or Dhuum or Menzies.
- GW2 didn’t seem to swing that way.

Seeing the armor set though and hearing that it would probably simply be an outfit in the Gem Store, since it has been made as one whole and not different parts of a set, discouraged me, even though you might say I got half of what I wanted.

- I thought it would be an obvious choice to have Menzies return and have this Balthazar armor as a reward for some content that revolved around the Fissure of Woe (even though Menzies whereabouts are unknown, so he might not even be there).
- And having Dhuum return and have Grenth’s armor as a reward for some Underworld content? Felt sort of given, to me. (And if one set gets the Gem Store treatment, then it is more likely that the other one would as well – and eventually, all the sets as seen in the concept art of the Gods).

Sure, I “expected” that if I ever saw the armor of (well, in this case) the Avatar of Balthazar in GW2, then it would be as a reward for defeating Menzies or some such.
- That it goes in the Gem Store would suggest that neither Menzies nor Dhuum will return, or at least that if Grenth’s set makes it into the game, then it will be through the Gem Store.

- They’ve put armor sets in the Gem Store before, I know that.
But the potential this particular set has for the return of Menzies and the Fissure of Woe makes it hard for me to overlook that they prioritize the Gem Store over the content, which in turn makes me feel that whenever I see something that could potentially lead to some awesome content, they will scrap the content and put what would have been an obvious choice for a reward in the Gem Store instead.

- To me, it’s a question of whether or not ANet can see and realize the potential that lies in different parts of their game world and lore.
I don’t think I need to explain that I feel that this move (if they indeed are going to do that. It’s not “confirmed” officially) is an example of wasted potential.

I’d like to see that I’m not wasting my time with the game, and that they can make compelling content (Dhuum and Menzies was compelling to me – though not as a campaign, just a part of the whole GW2 experience) and deliver.

So you state an opinion (aka you dont want this in the gem store), and then you demand that people refrain from using the most common argument against your opinion (aka anet needs to make money somewhere)?

Awesome way to start a discussion.

Sizer.5632:

So you state an opinion (aka you dont want this in the gem store), and then you demand that people refrain from using the most common argument against your opinion (aka anet needs to make money somewhere)?

Awesome way to start a discussion.

Then again, that’s a pretty bad excuse for a game being marketed and sold as B2P game. It would be a great and valid excuse for a F2P game! But it isn’t. A B2P game should make money with.. you know people buying the game (that include expansions). Not that that is going to be enough if you only release an expansion after about 3 years but that’s because they choose to earn money mainly with these sorts of items instead of with game (and expansion) sales.

So common or not, it’s not a very good excuse and it’s oke to dismiss it on forehand to prevent a complete useless discussion about that. (not that that is ever going to work). They need to make money somewhere, but that could be somewhere else as well. Guess his argument is that it should not be here (with those items).

Sizer.5632:

So you state an opinion (aka you dont want this in the gem store), and then you demand that people refrain from using the most common argument against your opinion (aka anet needs to make money somewhere)?

Awesome way to start a discussion.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Costume
- They have many other outfits from GW1 they could make, some of which actually has the God-theme.

I’m “demanding” that they should consider some of the potential content that would fit well with the Balthazar set (and that they not only have Menzies, but also Dhuum as a potential boss battle).
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Dhuum_concept_art.jpg
Menzies had his shadow army, the darknessess and Abyssals.

Simply put: Make the other six outfits (or just the Balthazar themed) from GW1 instead and wait with this one, till you have the proper content for it – it’s simply too awesome for everyone to just buy and wear it.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

There’s nothing stopping them from making an even better set of similar armor when that day comes.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Avatar_of_Balthazar_model.jpg
- Have you seen this thing? And this is the GW1 version.

I hope they can top it, if they do decide to bring back Menzies in GW2 (I like how you said “when the day comes.” ).

Such item..Much gem…Woe

That depends on what a fissure of Woe and a Menzis is. :P Buthonestly I think it’s 99% certain it will be a gem store item.